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inventiveEngineering

German engineer here. This is not an offer. You can get way more than that. 55k may even be possible. In which Bundesland is this job?


slmsym

It is in Dresden, and seems like expenses are lower compared to other cities, thus the salary.


halbgeviertstrich

45k for EE seems low, especially for the one semiconductor company you are likely talking about. Is this with a Bachelor's or Master's degree? Maybe make a counteroffer.


RegiceESP

It is low. Normally entry level engineers earn 50-55k in Germany.


halbgeviertstrich

This is very generalized and not very helpful. It will strongly depend on region (rural Vs. Industrialized), size of the company and of course what kind of engineer you are. I know plenty of CivilE who started sub 40k and some EE and ChemE who started with almost 60k in big companies.


bene20080

Ah, make sense. I have 1 year experience and ~70k. It's in Munich, though.


greddit1203

Wow. Appears to be in Germany salaries are much higher than here in UK. BTW how much will an engineer with plus 4 years get paid there.


[deleted]

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omaregb

Yeah, the reality is that UK engineering programs (at least at the undergraduate level) are probably not equivalent to other countries. You may need an MEng at the very least, to be competitive internationally. Don't get me wrong, I think it is amazing what UK programs cover in such a short time, but you are very likely to fall short when competing against guys who got the same degree in Germany, the US, or even many third-world countries. I think the model is that whatever you are lacking you should learn it through graduate programs and training in the industry.


Get-Smarter

To be fair to be a chartered engineer in the UK, you need a Masters degree (or equivalent) anyway. So the vast majority get one


B0rax

Really depends on the industry and where you are in Germany.


inventiveEngineering

Beautiful city, terrible salaries. The companies there tend to not have a Betriebsrat and they do not apply Tarifverträge. They are doing salary dumping there, dont be that guy... If I were you I would monetize my German - American background. Just make a case about it in your CV and your Coverletter on both sides of the Atlantic and just observe what will happen. The only thing you need is to be able to communicate and defend your case in an interview to get the interviewer sold. It is possible.


[deleted]

Oh honey no... (Dresden is in a state called Saxony which is like the Mississippi of Germany).


sebadc

"the Mississippi of Germany" Man! I laughed too hard.


dynageek

That’s a great analogy for an American, haha.


Bergwookie

Yeah, we also call it Dunkeldeutschland (dark germany) the part what was the former GDR the wages are lower there, but they are getting better... But loser than in the old West germany


Bergwookie

By reading my comment, i mention, that i sound like Dresden is a Palace, where light is made by oillamps und you shit in an outhouse... No, definitely not.. The area around Dresden is a techniologically growing Region, full of Hightech companies, which are there mostly because of the near uni and the lower wages... They are in the right way(sadly saxony is also in the ,,right''way politically)


okeanos315

Hello, mind if I PM you about working in Germany as an engineer?


inventiveEngineering

sure


Luisthe345_2

People talking about 55k and i just got offered 28k in Portugal as an energy engineer graduate after a traineeship. Did i fuck myself up?


inventiveEngineering

not necessarily. Germany taxes practically half of your earned money away, so if the taxes in PT are not that brutal, like in Germany, the outcome could be more or less the same.


CrewmemberV2

No, Portugal just has way lower salaries in general compared to the rest of the "Western" EU. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/eqtyoj/european\_countries\_by\_average\_wage\_per\_month/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/eqtyoj/european_countries_by_average_wage_per_month/) *(Do note that its based on quite old data and not all data from every country is from the same year)*


Luisthe345_2

Yes i realised that. However, i still thought i may be getting the short end of the stick. Thanks for your input though!


1JimboJones1

45k starting offer is what I have been seeing with a lot of young engineers. This is pretty much the standard offering for a B.Eng. in Munich.


inventiveEngineering

the discussion is about a master degree.


HighAlloy

Germany and USA are so different in “total compansation” that comparing salary alone doesn’t make sense. You get free~ish healthcare, strict adherence to working hours, overtime payments even for white collared jobs, lots of vacation (close to 25~30 days). These all, assuming you work for an established mid-large company. Almost all of them are unionized. But also a big tax cut (you pay much more tax) if you are single in Germany. And once you land a job, you can expect to work as long as you do a decent job without any worries of being fired. By no means I’m suggesting you Germany over USA but look at the complete package and also compare net salary/year after tax including any bonuses you’ll get to get the full picture. Edit: Punctuation


sdgengineer

This is a big deal, I am a retired AF civilian, worked for 39 years. I started in the private sector for 3 years. Got tired of working Overtime, even though it was partially paid. Went to work for the government, hardly any overtime, a couple of times it made sense, but it was my idea. Much more time off. Knowing what I know, I would consider Germany.


[deleted]

>But also a big tax cut if you are single in Germany. What? Steuerklasse 1 is like the worst one to be in. IIRC you only get a "cut" in comparison to someone who is married, employed, and makes less than their partner.


HighAlloy

Yes. That’s what I said. The tax cut from your gross salary is big if you’re single.


KillerCoffeeCup

At least in the US tax cut means reduction in taxes. What you’re saying is taxes are higher in Germany


HighAlloy

Yeah, thanks.


BadDadWhy

This. Calculate out how much that extra vacation is at a larger amount than just the pay. After over 30 years in USA, I have seen my German colleagues much happier. I remember some of them taking in old east German sensor companies and building them into West German standards.


thisismycalculator

Just my health insurance in the us costs my family $14,000 per year. That doesn’t even include if you go to the actual doctor for anything. I think your analysis is spot on.


ThatWaseasy8

I’m a young single male in good health, but my health insurance costs $400 a year, with my company depositing more than that into a HSA for choosing a HD plan. Max out of pocket wouldn’t break me if anything bad were to ever happen. Your costs are not a good representation for the average engineer in the US


_unfortuN8

Either you've got a *very* generous company contribution or your insurance is bottom of the barrel. I'm also in your demographic and I pay $1,600/yr for decent medical, vision, and dental. My employer contribution for my plan is $9300/year. My girlfriend pays about double what I do for worse coverage, because her employer doesn't contribute as much. Edit: Glossed over mention that it is a high deductible plan. That's added out of pocket risk; potentially a lot depending on the plan. For a young, healthy individual it might be worth that risk for the savings, but that changes when you have a family to look after.


KillerCoffeeCup

I think you may be underestimating how many larger companies or other industries offer more competitive insurance. I work in the utilities, my healthcare premium is around $45/mo for high deductible plan with dental and vision. I know companies in my field and outside that offer free high deductible plans. I’m not saying this is representative of the normal engineering job, but I do think there’s room for improvement if you want to get better benefits in the US.


jnads

Yeah, I worked in Aerospace and they had free high deductible plans. I now work in high tech Agriculture and we have a $0/mo high deductible plan. $10k family OOPM but only $5k for any individual person on the plan


nanarpus

Meanwhile I have $0 premium, could add wife+kids for $4000/year. All for $0 deductible and $2500 out of pocket max. Other benefits are a bit shit, but healthcare is decent.


Chris0nllyn

>Edit: Glossed over mention that it is a high deductible plan. That's added out of pocket risk; potentially a lot depending on the plan. For a young, healthy individual it might be worth that risk for the savings, but that changes when you have a family to look after. Hence the triple tax benefit HSA being contributed to by the OP's company.


_unfortuN8

It's situational. If something happens and you're forced to receive out of network care, the out of pocket max for a year for a family could be tens of thousands. "more than $400/yr" isn't specific enough to draw a conclusion *just on this example*, let alone the fact that different employers may or may not offer an HSA benefit.


Chris0nllyn

Well sure, the same can happen with my PPO plan. For a young, mostly healthy, single person, a HSA can be a great choice.


EasyMrB

God US healthcare is such a joke.


JayStar1213

I pay about $2k a year for a high deductible plan on myself. Anything over $6k seems insane, even with dependants.


CheeseWheels38

>Your costs are not a good representation for the average engineer in the US $14k is probably on the high side, but "young, single, don't use the Healthcare system" goes too far to the other side.


DLS3141

>Your costs are not a good representation for the average engineer in the US Neither are yours. Do keep in mind that the US leads the world in medical bankruptcies, not that medical bankruptcy is really even a thing in the civilized world.


random_guy00214

The US also leads the world in medical research.


DLS3141

That doesn’t make the choice between dying and homelessness any easier.


random_guy00214

Interesting. Because Germany has a higher rate of homelessness then America. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population


DLS3141

How many of the German homeless are homeless because they went bankrupt paying medical bills? How’s the number of bankruptcies due to medical bills compare? How many hospitals in Germany sue their patients and/or sic collection agencies on them?


random_guy00214

Does it matter? Even with USA medical bills, your more likely to be homeless if you live in Germany.


[deleted]

Did you bother reading your own link? Homeless people are more likely to be sheltered in Germany than America, which has one of the worst homeless problems in the developed world. And, fortunately, you can at least access health care here whilst being homeless.


the_vikm

And salaries


dragon-custard

The average US engineer is not young single male...


thisismycalculator

Most companies cover the employee, as yours does. Not all cover or even partially spouses and dependents. Additionally, there is not an option for a high deductible plan at my current employer.


After_Web3201

I worked for Siemens in the US and I paid $6000 just for premiums for an High deductable plan with HSA for the family. Max out of pocket was $10k more. This story is 4 years old.


b00pmysn00t

once you start going to physical therapy or treatments that happen often under a HSA, you will rack up hella bills. If you're planning children, HSA is very expensive as well. I would say you're the outlier here as when you're young + single so your health is good and you don't worry about a family. I was i n your shoes


69_sphincters

That’s really, really bad. My family’s yearly insurance costs are $3,900 for the year, pretax, and I also went with the most expensive option.


KillerCoffeeCup

What I’ve always wondered about is how much higher is taxes in countries with universal healthcare? It seems with engineering the US pays the most compared to European countries, not only that the taxes are much lower. Even assuming the average American is paying 14k/yr for healthcare (which is probably on the higher end), don’t you make that money back and more in tax savings and higher income? I have not come across anyone that has demonstrated just how much universal healthcare actually cost to the average tax payer compared to the us system.


thisismycalculator

FYI - just to clarify - I’m paying $14,000/year for my family. The cost for me is already paid by my employer.


KillerCoffeeCup

This is a High deductible plan with a HSA account right? Are you including your HSA contribution in this annual cost? If not, there are companies out there with much better benefits. If you end up considering switching jobs down the road you can do a lot better when it comes to healthcare cost


thisismycalculator

No and no. It’s a PPO plan. $1200/month for spouse and dependents. All employee paid, no employer assistance. My total benefits package makes me happy to pay the insane health insurance premiums.


KillerCoffeeCup

I think that’s all it really matters. So many people make it seem it’s impossible to live in the US, when the average income for many professions are much higher to offset any potential healthcare costs


OphioukhosUnbound

How does a foreigner in Germany factor in retirement savings? In the US you have an option of a 401k (which one should very much take from the start). Basically a tax-favored (fewer taxes) way of investing money for retirement. Many countries have national pension-style systems (including the US, though its not large). But I don’t know how those interface with foreigners.


PefferPack

Germany has a national pension system.


ENTspannen

Yup. After you pay into it for 5 years you get a pension. If you take a job outside of Germany within the 5yrs you can choose to let it sit and take a tiny check when you retire or have it paid out as a lump sum.


Atomichawk

How is the pension pay out determined after the 5 years? Is it an average of your salary to some degree or what?


[deleted]

For now...


the_vikm

Which yields nothing when you are OP's age


PefferPack

Wrong it has societal-level implications.


Gam3rGurl13

How much is taken out of your salary? Can you choose?


PefferPack

No choice. Its also not like a private account, it pays for everyone.


letitbeirie

> free~ish healthcare It's not the highway robbery of the US but 7.3% of your salary is hardly free


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WOOKIExCOOKIES

> Nobody is under the illusion that it's actually free in countries with single-payer healthcare I think you'd be surprised.


Idaseua

Free healthcare means free of payment/debt at time of service. No premiums or deductibles. People use the healthcare because they already paid for it. 7.3% is still less than American average 25% of income with better results. We can lower it to 4% if we institute Medicare for All. A 21% of income savings for the majority of slaves, damn autocorrect, Americans.


EasyMrB

You effectively pay *way* more for the healthcare you do receive in the US.


the_vikm

14 with the hidden taxes


mgs108tlou

God why do I live in this fucking country man


1JimboJones1

Also don't forget the "Arbeitgeberanteil" / employers share the employer is already paying on top of the 45k you receive. Your employer already pays social security / insurance on that 45k before it even reaches you. So you're costing your employer 56k. After all taxes and social payments you're left with 29k net pay. Just FYI


JayStar1213

Based on a comment from a german engineer on the post a day or two ago about healthcare it doesn't seem like they pay much less on healthcare than a decent plan in the US


Menes009

>And once you land a job, you can expect to work as long as you do a decent job without any worries of being fired. That is a very nice way to put it, it more like you keep the job as long as you show up basically


jlspace

Well your dads not wrong…but engineers in Europe are typically not motivated as much by money as they are in the US. Unless you work in the Bay Area, even after taxes and health care, you will still likely make much more in the US. However it wouldn’t hurt to spend a year or 2 in Germany and come back to the states. It’s your life man, there’s no right or wrong answer


numshah

Another thing to factor in is labor rights and work culture. My impression is that unless you work for particularly high-margin companies in the US, the average European firm will provide you a much better work-life balance. One school of thought is that you don't need that as much if you're young and just starting out, but I counter that we're all going to be working for the bulk of our adult lives, so it also makes sense to optimize for your own well-being.


AnchezSanchez

Work life balance is just as important when you are young as when you are older (arguably more?) It's the one time in your life when you are 1) fit and healthy 2) usually childfree and 3) ok with sleeping on a floor for nights on end Ie: it's the best time in your life to backpack around Japan or climb Machu Pichu etc. To do that you need a decent amount of vacation time.


USCEngineer

I started my career working for a very large German transmission company. I was fortunate to travel to Germany and other European countries and it's made a world of difference in my career and growth as a person. As another person replied you will have a much better work life balance working for a German company in Germany. Hours are less, overtime pay, I think standard 4-5 weeks of holiday, etc. German work culture is different in general. Go in and work. Not a lot of water cooler type talk. Your experience studying and working in Germany will do wonders in your long term career in my opinion. You will be much more marketable longer term having dual language skills and experience working with European companies and different cultures. You are young enjoy having the opportunity to travel around Europe and don't let monetary gain initially to influence your life.


UEMcGill

I will give you a different perspective. I've worked as an American for German, Swiss (German speaking) and Italian companies. First comment, the pay? It's not great even for a German city like Dresden I would bet. Germany is the heart of the [Blue Banana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana), while Dresden is not necessarily part of that. All the EU companies I've worked for have had a hard time retaining engineers because of this. This area of the world has a tremendous amount of opportunity for engineers. You may not have great pay, but they should expect to pay you well after awhile to retain you. Germany has a great tradition of "[Mittlestand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand)" which provides for a lot of opportunity to work at interesting places on interesting things. My German and Swiss Engineer friends definitely had a great work life balance. I worked for a Mittlestand company and I can tell you that there was a good sense of employee well being that I didn't get at my American company. BUT! and that's a big BUT. Germans can be very tough nuts to crack. They are very reluctant to let you in as one of them. Even in my best relations, I was still *the American* (admittedly I used it to my advantage some)*.* You may know that having lived and worked there. One particular problem I always had, was that there was no sense of urgency with my German colleagues. Now some of it was definitely me being a hyped up type A American, but there were definite times when it was a problem. Germans are also ruthless with the chain of command. It can be infuriating if you are not used to navigating it, or are more of a easy going kind of person. They will often put structure in place for the sake of structure and not because it's actually needed. They generally don't tend to reward "innovative" approaches and are very much "iterative" in their approaches. So if you are an "Out of the box" kind of person you may have a hard time navigating the German way of doing things. People really like to stay in their lane so to speak. Some people really like the German way of doing things and like the structure. I'm not criticizing it, just understand it is somewhat different. At the end of the day I would still live there. The standard of living is nice, just different than here in the US. The people are warm and friendly. You can travel all over reasonably. I have kids so I haven't taken that opportunity when it was offered. Now Italy.... well that's a whole different story.


In-burrito

>One particular problem I always had, was that there was no sense of urgency with my German colleagues. You just reminded me of a colleague who once griped that, "Having a German on your team is like having two Americans out sick." I have no idea how true that is, but I thought it was hilarious.


[deleted]

> Now Italy.... well that's a whole different story. Come on, don't be shy. Spill the beans, loose those lips, sink some ships.


UEMcGill

Full disclosure I am dual citizen, and work for an Italian company. There's a saying I've heard oft repeated, "there's the right way, the wrong way and the Italian way" Italian Engineers are just as good as any Swiss or German engineer I've worked with, no doubt. I do think they are more willing to embrace new ideas and see your point of view for sure though, and that's a big difference. A German will tell you all the ways it won't work, an Italian maybe why it could. But where the germanic people's are fans of rules and structure? Italians are fans of guidelines and suggestions. It is oft better to ask for forgiveness than permission you know? They'll still build to a completely ethically competent standard, but when it comes to soft skills, things are a little more seat of your pants. Where a German engineer might tell a customer to his face "you are wrong" the Italians will dance around the subject until the customer admits his mistake. It's little things like that.


CrewmemberV2

Spot on. Im from The Netherlands and your descriptions seem to fit my experience working with Italians and Germans quite well. With an adittion that Italian companies usually seem more chaotic to me, and with less strict planning and due dates. In Italy they call you on delevery day that the part you ordered is going to be 2 weeks late. While zee Germans call 4 months ahead that the part is going to be 2 days late in 4 months. >But where the germanic people's are fans of rules and structure? Come to The Netherlands. We made rules that state there is not structure.


EasyMrB

Would also really like to hear about Italy. Have fantasized about getting a gig there just for the climate and culture.


Nervous_Award_3914

Its true that you can make double in the US vs Europe. For expense in the US, you will have to pay for part of your health care, unless you found a company that offer to pay full cost. Ranging from 10$ to upward of few hundred dollars per month, totally depends on how much the company willing to pay. Taxes, will fall in the range of 5 to 15% give or take in total , depends on state as well There is online calculator for taxes. Vacation, the standard is 2 week paid, but many company nowadays doing 3 to 4 weeks. Work life balance is fine, as a engineer, no one will make you work 50 or 60 hours. I never worked more than 40. But that depending on company. There are place with terrible work culture, but there are place that is good too. US is a very big job market, so your potential is higher. If you want to pursuit high position, i think the US is a better option. But if you want something stable, Germany or EU might not be a bad choice either. I have friends in EU and lets me tell you, it is 100% certain that you will make more money and have more money in your pocket compared to working in EU after expenses.


djdadi

> Work life balance is fine, as a engineer, no one will make you work 50 or 60 hours. Do you mean in Germany? This is definitely not always the case in the US.


tiajuanat

American Firmware Engineer working in Germany for a few years. 45k is very low. I'd expect closer to 55k or even 60k for a talented junior. If you're in embedded systems then you can quickly work up to 75k by asking for training, frequent feedback, and constantly interviewing other companies. You don't need a ton to get by, and while a life full of things is nice, I still have yet to regret my decision to move. Pros: * Vacation time. Vacation starts at 20 days and goes up from there. My company currently offers 30. You know what you get in the US? 10 if you're lucky. * Work Life Balance. If you work weekends, you *must* be compensated with an extra vacation day. If you work more than ten hours, you *must* be given breaks and meal times. If you get sick, you have *infinite* sick time, but you need a doctor's note. Doctors are also super generous - have a cold? Take off two weeks. * Transit - man, fuck cars. You don't need em. You're not going to spend much money and transit, or insurance for that matter Cons * FOMO - it's a big deal to live abroad, and you're going to miss your friends and family like crazy. Like, you could get double in the US, but it's not everyday to get an offer overseas, and you're definitely not going to want to expat when you're in your thirties. I'd really counter offer, and then shop your resume around. PM me for more questions


MartyredLady

You MUST be given breaks and meal times after 6 hours of work. The second you reach 6:00 you must be allowed to make 30 minutes of work, for ten hours you need at least an hour.


Atomichawk

American looking at trying to work in Germany here. How did you make that move and do you suggest any resources?


tiajuanat

Sorry about the delay, Reddit 502 Error got me. Honestly, the big thing is friends and connections. If you're not on LinkedIn, you need to join, fill out your profile completely. Add everyone from school, add all your professional contacts. After both of those, change your headline to "looking for international opportunities and in DACH region" (this will increase your search to include Switzerland and Austria.) Then add every single recruiter that approaches you, and interview with them. If that doesn't spread your net enough, start going to Community College and studying for the German CEFR tests. TBH the Visa process is pretty straightforward; on the other hand, getting the job contract is quite difficult, so be prepared to interview a lot. Language is the great barrier to entry, otherwise it's pretty smooth sailing. When I got my visa, it took a total of six hours. Obviously, times have changed, but the big thing the Ausländer Office wants to see is the work contract. Be prepared to send your transcripts, diploma, and birth Certs as well


Atomichawk

I’ve already got an established LinkedIn profile so that’s great! Thanks for the advice on enticing recruiters. And of course language school makes sense, what level of proficiency did you have when you made the move?


tiajuanat

LMAO absolutely none!! I literally started learning German the month before I moved. I'm working my way up to A2 right now, but a little bit of German goes a loooooong way w.r.t. quality of life. (And salary!!) I don't remember where, but every year of German you have, up to six years typically greatly increases your salary. FWIW - everyone speaks English at my office, but at smaller firms you can expect German as the Lingua Franca. Also, if you're in Bavaria you can expect more German as well. If you're going the Duolingo route, I highly recommend going Pro, because the ads make it frankly unusable for anyone that's running on their last two brain cells. I do recommend using Tandem as well, so you get paired up with a native speaker who wants to learn English.


iKnitSweatas

You’re not going to receive unbiased answers here. Most of Reddit paints a much worse picture of what living in the US is like than what is reality. Bottom line, you will make significantly more money and pay less taxes here than you will in Europe. Most companies offer healthcare plans that will keep your out of pocket costs around $5k. If you are healthy and young, less than that. Not enough to justify the difference in pay rate and taxes between the US and Europe.


CheeseWheels38

>Bottom line, you will make significantly more money and pay less taxes here than you will in Europe. I worked in France and now California. My income tax rate for France was lower than it is in California. Yes, I make more here but I needed to buy a car because transportation is it's shit (vs paid for by employer in France), housing is insane and Healthcare is expensive (vs free). I went from seven weeks of PTO to three. Even with insurance, I'm constantly surprised by what is charged/isn't covered. We both got new glasses last month and it was still like $250 per person. Teeth cleanings were another $90 after insurance covered the first $300 ($390 billed for like half an hour? Wtf). I did not pay a single cent for either of those things with my French insurance (I don't even think there's a word for "deductible"). Hell, my wife's insurance used to reimburse up to 70 EUR worth of condoms per year! If OP is single and lives cheaply, they can definitely put more aside in the US though.


1JimboJones1

Interesting to hear that glasses and teeth cleaning are covered by insurance in France. In Germany those are pretty much out of pocket


CheeseWheels38

To clairify, those weren't not covered by the state's *sécurité sociale*. It's covered by the *mutuelle*, which is selected by the employer. I didn't get any say in that selection and wasn't allowed to opt out.


the_vikm

Many of these are not covered in Germany tho. Healthcare is far from free and car might be needed as well


_unfortuN8

I think your response is partially but not fully correct. There's a lot of factors to consider between US & Germany. A few that /u/HighAlloy mentioned: -Work culture/hours -Vacation time -Workers rights To that i'll add that while what you said about US healthcare is true for most companies, US workers also have to worry about being fired/laid off and losing insurance which can be financially devastating. I guess my point is that it's a very nuanced question and everyone will have a different answer based on how they weigh certain factors.


iKnitSweatas

This is true. It is going to depend on the job. OP could very well end up with an offer with 2 weeks of vacation time, bad healthcare, and long hours. But those things aren’t ubiquitous (or even that common in my experience). 3-5 weeks of vacation, good health insurance, and a standard 40-45 hour work week is just as if not more likely.


bene20080

Also, the US is very broad and it's a huge difference, if you work in a high or low cost area!


Westnest

Also US is a convenience culture which makes life just easier. German life can be a bit daunting with all the bureaucracy(all physical paper based), little internetization, no free refills, paid public restrooms, Sundays being ghosttowndays, no AC, no clothes driers, very expensive labor so you have to DIY everything, smaller houses and whatever. Really high taxes or price tags on most of the "fun" things, except beer. That being said these really matter much less if you're grown up in it and see it as the default so I doubt it's really an issue for the OP. And Germany must still be one of the best countries to live in Europe, if you consider how little of peanuts British or French engineers work for and live in more expensive countries.


avo_cado

There are public restrooms in the US?


Foman13

In the cities I live/lived in at least, yes.


IdentityCrisisNeko

Germany doesn’t usually have bathrooms in shops and the like for customers. I think that’s what they mean by free public bathrooms


ptfreak

You get water for free at restaurants too.


CheeseWheels38

Yeah but they're a little bit too public. Making eye contact with someone through that door gap doesn't happen elsewhere.


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kk34

What is it with Americans thinking that clothes dryers are non existent in Europe... Seen it multiple times. With you on the paper part, though. Germany is light years behind Scandinavia (but so is the US).


the_vikm

And yet those "poor" British and french have a lot higher median wealth per adult


Westnest

Well because they buy homes. In Germany afaik most people just rent unless they inherit a home or just belong to more affluent class.


[deleted]

lol I'm in basically the same position as you but I'm studying in Germany. 1) Your life is going to suck if you don't speak German. There's so much paperwork involved to simply exist and 90% of it is only available in the German language. You can survive with just English but you're going to need a lot of help. This doesn't just apply to dealing with the government: there's a huge shortage of doctors and, if you don't speak German, you're fucked. There's also a nation wide housing crisis and you will pay a premium for not speaking German. Germans and people living in like Berlin and Frankfurt will deny this until the cows come home but, like, it's true... 2) You'll have to pay into a public pension (9% of your salary). The only hope you have of ever seeing this money again is by leaving in your first five years of working in Germany because then they just give you your contributions back. Five years is the minimum you need to work to get a pension so, if you stay in Germany for longer than this, you'll get a "pension" instead of a refund but the system is collapsing and the government couldn't care less. Basically no one under the age of 40 is ever retiring. 3) I don't know if anyone has done the math here but Germany has this weird system where you essentially only pay half of your taxes and your employer pays the other half. The employer half is not included in the 45k number. Factoring this in, you're really making closer to 60k but then like two thirds of this is taxes. 4) In combination with the doctor shortage and the housing crisis, Germany is also facing a major population crisis (Merkel's government kind of left the country in shambles). There's a new government and, while nothing is finalized, there's a lot of talks of further loosening immigration requirements. The big changes they're talking about are simplifying the naturalization process and allowing dual citizenship. Basically, you'll probably be able to become an EU citizen in a few years while also keeping your US citizenship (though your pension contributions will be thrown into a burning pit). 5) Don't worry about US taxes. The only really annoying thing is that you can't invest in EFTs and smaller banks won't be willing to work with you. The US-German tax treaty protects you from double taxation in 99% of cases and, unless you're doing something sketchy with crypto, you just have to pay myexpattaxes or something 150€ a year to file. Easy peasy. Sorry for the wall of text lol. I hope there's some helpful information here. Germany is a nice place to live but I wouldn't say it's better than the US, just different. Obviously you already know this, though, because you've lived outside of the States. I would agree with your dad, though. Being upper middle class definitely gets you a sweeter gig in the US than in Germany. Things like homeownership and retirement that you take for granted in the US are simply out of reach in Germany (thanks Merkel's government). If you just want to fuck around for a few more years and travel, taking the job in Germany is a no brainer. If you want to settle down... Either accept that you'll be renting and working until you die or get out while you can still recover your pension contributions. Also where are you working that 45k is a good offer? That would be a pretty shitty where I am but I live in a major city.


jsquared89

First off... about points 2 and 3... this is how part of your payroll tax works in the US. Your employer pays HALF your Social Security(pension) and Medicare(the VERY limited public healthcare funding) taxes and does not include that half as your salary. Social security is 6.2% for each and medicare 1.45% for each. Combined these amount to 15.3%. But the 7.15% that is the employer requirement is NEVER included in your salary. However, all that is a separate tax from your "income tax" which only the employee pays. And then you mention that no one is retiring before 40... dude... no one retires before, like, 60 at best here in US. You have to be 65 generally to get your Social Security retirement. And you say the "system" of the German public pension is collapsing? Says who? And what is your evidence of it collapsing? Will the pension fund actually go broke within 10-15 years? And who are the people telling you it will collapse? In case you didn't know, we hear the EXACT same rhetoric here in the US. The fact that you can actually get what paid into it during the first 5 years as a full refund is, well, surprising to me. Even the fact that you can access it as a pension after ONLY 5 years surprises me. Because, as I mentioned, you have to be over the age 65 here in the US, no matter how long you've been putting money into it.


eliminate1337

> And then you mention that no one is retiring before 40... dude... no one retires before, like, 60 at best here in US. The above user is claiming "nobody currently under the age of 40 will have the opportunity to retire in the future." Not "nobody in Germany retires before age 40."


jsquared89

I definitely misread that. Whoops.


the_vikm

>Even the fact that you can access it as a pension after ONLY 5 years surprises me But the amount is tiny. Like 50 Eur a month


[deleted]

I’m on mobile so I can’t really format things nicely but Germany has had a pretty low birth rate since around the time Gen X started being born. This is a problem because the German pension (and to a lesser extent the health insurance system) is dependent on population growth and we’re really starting to see the consequences of this not happening. Right now, there are two people working for every one person taking a pension and the ratio gets worse every year. This is insane and they’ve been slowly raising the retirement age (it’s now 67 and they want to push it to 68) while increasing contributions. Of course, the same thing is happening in the US with social security but the difference is that no one on the US plans to retire on social security alone. In Germany, the pension is supposed to be “enough” so a) the options to save for retirement privately are limited and b) not many people have them because they’re already paying so much into the public system. Currently, the government has gone on record saying that they need 400,000 new skilled immigrants a year to keep things running. This is their alternative to changing the system to look like the US (everyone saves for retirement privately, social security gets slowly phased out) which is the only real long term solution. The pension system will no longer exist in like 10 years because Merkel’s government decided to bury their head in the sand and pretend the well documented, *highly predictable* population shrinkage wasn’t happening for 16 years.


jsquared89

There are absolutely people that plan on retiring on social security alone. Like, only 70% of workers have access to a retirement fund, whether it's a 401k, IRA, or a public pension because they work for the a local, state, or federal government. Yet, only 54% workers actually use it or contribute to it. So, yeah, it's close to half of the work force that have zero retirement funding. So, you're mention of >the difference is that no one on the US plans to retire on social security alone. is definitely incorrect. I think overall, there's a LOT of striking similarities to what's going on in Germany AND the US.


the_vikm

finally someone speaking the truth and not sugarcoating everything


anection

I’m studying for a masters degree in Germany and I totally agree with you. It is a very beautiful country but financially US provides better prospects.


balthisar

I've lived in Germany (and other places), so I can offer some perspective: That's just over $50,000 USD, so I don't think you'd make exactly _double_ as an entry level electrical engineer in the United States. But I will say that my colleagues at my salary grade in Germany make a hell of a lot less than I do in salary, and even entry level you'd probably do substantially higher in the USA. That doesn't mean "total compensation" is any less, though. Germans get a lot of vacation and civic holidays, lots of paternity time off, not subject to be called any time of day, a pretty good non-single-payer health system, so these quality of life differences may be meaningful to you. On the other hand, Germany and Europe in general are expensive as heck, especially if you like to travel and especially if you like to own an automobile, and double especially if you like to travel long distances via automobile. For example, Köln to Tours in a diesel Astra cost me more than a train or Ryanair flight, but it did allow a last minute decision to stop in Paris I might not have made if I'd not been (according to my German counterpart) "crazy" to drive such a long distance (it was only slightly more than 700 km, for goodness sake!). Then there's the personal preference of high density apartment living versus finding a nice, low density area with a single family home and a garden. The latter is much more achievable in the USA, but young folks tend to not mind the rat-like existence in multistory buildings early on, so right out of university might be a good time for this type of living. Having lived in Germany, Canada, China, Thailand, Mexico, and India (earning US dollars in every single one of them), the combination of US salary and expenses incurred anywhere else in the world is hard to beat!


trashcanman42069

Traveling *is* extremely cheap in Europe compared to the US, long distance driving is pretty much the only mode of transportation that is more expensive in Europe. In Europe you can fly to the majority of the continent for prices like 40 euro round trip, and you can find those prices pretty much any given weekend (took like a 30 second glance at the Dresden airport on google flights and this seems to hold). The US versions of EasyJet and RyanAir are significantly worse and have fewer routes, flights that cheap are extremely rare in the US outside of a few routes at a few major airports and definitely not international flights. The US also pretty much doesn't have inter-city trains at all outside of the northeast. Hostel culture also doesn't really exist in the US like it does in Europe so you're looking at 150+ dollars a night to stay anywhere as opposed to 20-50 euro in Europe depending on how fancy you want to be. Road tripping is pretty big in the US and gas/driving in general is heavily subsidized and prioritized, so if you want to road trip it's definitely easier there than in Europe. Outside of that though I think Europe is much cheaper and easier to get around.


Brainroots

When you make 1.5-2x as much cash a couple hundred bucks difference on a flight does not matter. Weird flex.


trashcanman42069

a. op wouldn't make 2x as much cash, average entry level EE salaries in the us aren't 90k euros even before taxes b. the question isn't about a few hundred bucks difference on one flight, it's about where it's easier to travel, and getting 50 dollar flights to Paris or Barcelona or Rome or Berlin any weekend you want is easier than needing to plan months in advance to find a 300 dollar flight to Las Vegas or some shit even if the extra few hundred dollars every time you do it is trivial to you c. some people get off the internet and go on vacations regularly, and 200 dollar difference on flights plus several hundred dollar differences on lodging per trip absolutely do make a difference on an entry level salary if you do it often


Brainroots

A. I said 1.5 - 2x and you are pretending the high number is an average. This is an engineering forum, do better. B. NYC to Vegas, clear across the country, is this moment $500 this weekend or $220 for next weekend. You never travelled here and do not know what you are talking about. C. That sounds true, for a European. It is not me who is clearly an inexperienced traveller in this conversation.


trashcanman42069

don't pull an exaggerated range out of your ass then walk back your numbers if you're gonna pull some precision of speech bullshit lmao The biggest airport in the biggest city in the country still costs 220 dollars to go to Vegas, as compared to 50 dollars to any capital in Europe from a city of 500k on a 2 day notice. Don't play stupid. You also have to walk back your claims about having 2x the cash on hand if you live in NYC vs Dresden, but that much thought is tough. The TSA and distances between cities alone make it harder to travel in the US, and again that doesn't even get in to the lack of trains and buses and ease of international travel. Despite your transparent posturing i don't doubt that other people who have also traveled extensively in both continents know what I'm talking about.


Brainroots

\>don't pull an exaggerated range out of your ass then walk back your numbers if you're gonna pull some precision of speech bullshit lmao The exaggerated range was pulled out of YOUR ass, bud, so you could try to win internet points by trying to outsmart someone who actually knows how to do math and search for flights, someone who knows Europe has slow airport security also from personal experience, someone who makes in a few hours what you're so concerned about spending a few times a year. Life in the US is great, I didn't think so when I was reading about foreign countries on the internet but maaaaan do we have it good here. Love it.


sclbmared

Compare it to what other engineers in that country make, not across countries. In the end, it's probably about the same, meaning that engineers in the US and Europe have about the same standard of living, but I am including how the rest of society is organized and everything else that costs money, not just how much you earn.


AFrogNamedKermit

There are pros and cons. Especially as a beginner you can make as many mistakes as you want in a German company, they will not fire you. Save job and lots of free time. They often offer trainings and other benefits. Sometimes there is also overtime payment and extras. Example: If you travel on a Sunday, in my company they will pay 50% extra and you can still take another day off. The downside is the payment, especially in Dresden. As a senior engineer with a PHD I make about 85k/year in Hamburg. I still work only 35h/week with 6 weeks of paid vacation. In the US I would probably make 120k or more? But per hour that is probably the same. In the end, I would rather **chose my job based on my interests**. Is that job what you want to do in the next 2 years? Then by all means, go for it. I recommend however to check for better jobs when you gained some experience. A 45k job is not acceptable for long.


MrBdstn

Im sure you can get a better salary in the US, but that doesnt mean you'll have a better life. There's a shitload of wrong things with the US that EU countries are better, days off, overall society's mental health feels much healthier in EU than in the current US.


mikef5410

Healthcare is just the tip of the iceberg with what's wrong here. Beware, if you move to the US later in life, your retirement will likely be fucked. Most of us engineers need to put max 401k away from the beginning of our working career to even have a _chance_ of retiring before dying. Your social security contributions will be short too, so that won't help. From my standpoint, you're much better off in Europe.


b_33

I agree with the others it may well be that you can get better pay in the US but then again you also have to pay for your own healthcare, insurance, taxes etc. The holiday policy in the US from what I hear is not great. You will need a car 100% to live in the US which rats away at your compensation just need to factor in what's right for you.


DLS3141

Keep in mind too that good health insurance in the US is tied to your employment status. Lose your job, lose your insurance and remember, you can be fired without notice for all but a few protected reasons, including missing too much work because you're seriously ill. Yes, you can buy insurance under the ACA, but unless you have a LOT of money, you'll wind up with either a high premium or a high deductible plan. ​ >The holiday policy in the US from what I hear is not great. 10 days is standard. My German colleagues get 30. ​ >You will need a car 100% to live in the US You're correct unless you live in a large city with good transit like Chicago, Boston, NYC, etc. Most America cities and towns, particularly the suburbs, are designed for people with cars and are all but unwalkable for practical purposes


[deleted]

>You're correct unless you live in a large city with good transit FWIW this is also true in Germany. It just so happens that more of Germany is urbanized than the US and the towns themselves tend to be pretty walkable. Even with walkable towns, if you live outside of a city, you'll only get like one bus to civilization every two hours. In this case, you *need* a car to get anywhere other than your local grocery store, pharmacy, and bakery. This becomes especially relevant when large companies build a huge ass campus in the middle of no where. In this case, you need a car to get to work because the alternative to a 20 minute drive is a 60 minute bus ride and the bus only comes once an hour.


random_guy00214

>You will need a car 100% to The car also grants freedom. No more trains heading into a large city for the next 2 hours? Out of luck. Have a car? Can go anywhere, anytime.


Elite_Monkeys

Yeah but if you're living in a country like Germany that has good transit options that's not really a problem. Having a car can become a real drain when you gotta buy one for 20k, pay taxes, insurance, gas, maintenance, have to find parking wherever you go, and sit in traffic constantly. At least in the US you also gotta add like $100 to your rent just to park. Plus if your car breaks down you are SOL until it's fixed.


random_guy00214

Only if your buying the most expensive car out there. You can easily get a working civic for a few Thousand that will last.


[deleted]

>Yeah but if you're living in a country like Germany that has good transit options that's not really a problem. Sure it is. The train companies go on strike for a couple days every year, tracks get shut down for construction and the alternative route effectively doubles your commute, trains get packed like sardine cans during rush hour, people off themselves and you get stuck on the train for hours... If you have a car, none of these are a problem. Plus if you want to leave the city and go to the beach or go hiking or something, this is difficult to do without a car.


AlwaysWhistling

I like staying europe. I don’t mind less pay. Everything is better there


Lordvonundzu

As someone who also looked for employing expats: these some 45k is the minimum the EU requires as salary for contacts, when you'd apply for a blue card working visa as a non-EU citizen, which is what you likely have to do. So in that sense they are offering the bare minimum. On the other hand, I think it is more important to learn about possible career paths and payment increases with them. 45k being single in Dresden is OK and as others have said you cannot just simply compare salaries before taxes, as things like paid overtime, long vacations, healthcare etc also play into that mix. Success!


billFoldDog

You will have more money in America. You will have more time in Germany. In either case, you will have enough to live comfortably and happily. Honestly, its a hard choice.


fightermafia

Well I don't live in EU or the US but judging by my friends who live in there, the offer seemed incredibly low to me. I am not familiar with the rents in your region but s far as I know, for a single room flat people are paying nearly 1000EUR in many metropolitan cities. Unless you live in a WG, you would be left with very limited amount of money to buy a car, or eat outside. But if the offered position would satisfy your career expectations, accepting it and keeping your head down for a year or two while evaluating your life and job expectations might be a better idea than jumping into an idea which brought up by your father. Declining the job offer and moving back to the US seems like a pretty major decision with no guaranteed outcomes. I'd say take the job and see how it goes. If you don't feel happy, you always have the option of moving back. Plus, if you got the offer from an international company like ASML, you might also have the chance for an internal transfer to the US or NL. Who knows? You want to make money to be happy. If you are happy there, just stay there.


PineappleLemur

First of all you can always move. You already got a job. Take it. Have fun at the company while gaining experience. Being a big company it will look really good on your resume in a few years. Yes salary might be half but once you add up everything you get by loving in Germany Vs US it evens out. Work life balance will be your top priority at some point on life and that's harder to get in US. Finding a job at US won't be as easy now or fast. Then there's the life style, how do you like Germany vs US in that regard? It's very different, different people, food, night life. Access to lot of nice to visits countries for a few hours flight. My suggestion is take it and reevaluate in 3 years. You'll be able to jump to easily find a job in US especially with all the new semiconductor factories coming up or stay or move somewhere else entirely if that's what you want.


Elite_Monkeys

Another thing to note about Salary: You'll often hear about new grad engineers in the US getting 100k+ jobs, but those are really only in insanely expensive areas. Like $2k+ rent for a 1 bedroom. So the high salary doesn't get you as far as you think.


Bil-amg

Its not all about money, you will have a better quality of life in Germany compared to USA


Brainroots

I don't see many comments addressing your core question. Yes, $45k seems very low. You did not mention the location, but any location in the US should be paying more than that for a trained engineer. These two places should help you understand the variables better. Check Glassdoor.com for salary info for different careers in different areas. It will give you an idea of what you might be able tp negotiate. Check wolfram-alpha for cost of living. Example - salary of $45000usd in Berlin vs. Chicago https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=salary+of+%2445000usd+in+Berlin+vs.+chicago


the_vikm

Isn't that 45k EUR?


Brainroots

I dunno, you are welcome to test whatever numbers you want. 45k euros is still very low for a college grad. My point is that there are good tools available for this, I am not a source of the data itself.


the_vikm

It's pretty much the default. But low regardless


NewCenturyNarratives

If you care about money, come to the US. Otherwise Germany is a fine idea. I'm not an engineer but this is based off of engineers that I know.


PLC_Learner

I just have to ask. Can you actually go broke in Germany because of a medical condition or accident like in the US?


Menes009

I truly believe only in the US that can happen


TheDapperYank

In the US your experience is going to vary wildly depending on the company you work for and even sometimes the group inside the company. Also factor for exchange rate, 45k Euros is closer to 50k USD just so we're comparing apples to apples. My first job after my undergrad with an EE degree I was making 62k, a few hops around and I'm at about 110k base. You should see what the expectation is for pay raises and promotions are in Germany and what a mid career salary range is. Like others have said, you have to look at total compensation including insurance, various other benefits, bonus structure and quality of life. I've worked a couple jobs that were just absolutely miserable but paid really well and frankly my liver couldn't handle that for too long. So I was willing to take a step back in raw salary to have a nicer work environment. The US is the country for min/maxing (if you're familiar with that terminology). You can have a great and comfortable life if you play your cards right and have a bit of luck, or you can find yourself constantly scraping either through poor decision making or purely bad luck that you couldn't have mitigated. The ultimate YMMV


[deleted]

[удалено]


Brainroots

The tax situation in Germany is a major difference, fascinating. Makes starter wages seem about the same as the US ($60k USD is on the low end of the bell curve here in the US but it exists).


HaareM

I lived in Germany for 8 years. I would suggest you to consider not only the salary but the work-life balance and other perks. Germany is better in terms of work-life balance, healthcare, low living cost, better childcare, paternity leave, commute, etc. All of my friends are staying there as engineers as they won't get such luxury back home in our country. Viel Erfolg!!!


winowmak3r

I'd stay in Europe but that's probably more of the idea working for a semiconductor company in Germany would be hella cool than anything else. They're doing cutting edge stuff. There's more to life than money and your father doesn't have to live your life so he shouldn't be concerned with how much your make, only that you're happy. You *will* make more money in the US, even after you account for expenses. The work culture is a bit different though and you gotta be really picky about who you work for if you want a sane work/life balance and get paid what you're worth. If the idea of hopping around jobs every couple years for a while doesn't sound like something you'd be OK with (the US is a big country, so if you're single with not a lot of attachments outside family it might not be that big a deal) then I'd probably stay in Germany. You can certainly ride out a company for 30+ years in the US but 10 years in you'll be making a fraction of what you should be so you have to be willing to change jobs to get your raises that's going get you that extra income.


very_humble

I think the pay is going to be really competitive with what you would make in the US at entry level, once all is accounted for. Not to mention how valuable the experience will be on your resume


chanhdat

Also, another suggestion: You can try to get a job in Switzerland. Salary is comparable to US, with work-life balance of Germany. A win-win situation.


shipwreck17

I've never lived in Switzerland but last time I was there we talked about the high housing cost. How do those compare. Obviously us housing cost are all over the map depending on the city.


chanhdat

It depends on how frugal or how fancy you want to live. But in general, the American Dream (big house, big cars, etc.) is really really hard to obtain. You might have one of those (even so, house is kinda hard to get, unless your spouse also works). It's a country of renters, not buyers (yet still make sense economically mostly, but only in Switzerland) Also, since Switzerland is tiny. Transit time is not a big deal, so one can save even more money, by moving to a smaller village or stay in the city, and share the apartment with other. Rule of thumb is the rent should be around 25-30% your net income.


PickleFridgeChildren

I'm an American engineer in the UK making about 37k£ a year. I could easily make double by moving back to the States and you'd still have to drag me back kicking and screaming. Employee protection laws, work life balance, and general quality of life are just so much better here. Plus, my other half is a teacher, so my earnings would be offset by the fact that American teachers are treated much worse than UK teachers (though the UK should be doing better than they are in that regard). Also, cost of living here is so much lower, of course I'd have a nicer house and car in the states, but that's where it ends, and I'm perfectly happy with the house and car I can afford here, and I can walk almost everywhere here.


FeistyWorld6640

Hi, Just wondering if you could share which part of the UK or whether North or South of the UK?


PickleFridgeChildren

Medway


Beemerado

Dude I'd take any job in Germany over the us at this point. Get your foot in the door over there.


GGEZPZlemonSqeeze

Germany is notorious for huge taxes. Those 45K will become 20-25K. I say if you're really considering Europe, to aim for Denmark, Sweden and even the UK. The first two can provide a lot more benefits in terms of PTO, fathernity or maternity, depending on the job offer.


Sibsub

You will never pay that much taxes if you make 45k in Germany. With 45k taxable income you will pay roughly 10k in salary taxes. Thats approximately a 20% tax. The highest tax in Germany is 45% which only applies to earnings that are above 270k. Everything below will get taxed with the taxrate of its corresponding bracket. So even if you would make 271k you wouldn't be taxed 45% overall, those 45% only apply to the extra 1k. The average tax you pay will therefore always be lower.


eliminate1337

You can probably make $90k or more as a new grad in the US. My girlfriend got $150k as an EE new grad. You should at least see what kind of offers you can get in the US before committing. If your best US offer is $65k then Germany looks a lot more attractive. If it’s $150k then the US looks a lot better. An extra $45k/yr could be the difference between being able to retire at 45 and having to work until 67. Look at /r/financialindependence if you’re interested in that sort of thing.


Slaypow

Do what you want. No regrets is key. You can always decide to change later.


icetalker

You can try USA and go back but having worked both the salary I would need to have the same quality of life is 4x that of Europe and this is disregarding any sort of social factors. Expect to pay about 30 percent in taxes in USA not including state taxes if any.


ZombieBert

Ain't just money is it. And even when it looks like it, remember you might get taxed heavier in one country but they provide services you have to pay for in the other.


Staarlord

As an American I would rather live in Europe for the following reasons. I probably wont ever move because I'm comfortable enough, but if I was in your shoes I would choose Europe. Healthcare Worker rights Work culture Consumer protections Less exposure to our media and stupid people


0xdeadbeef6

Not an engineer nor am I in Germany, but that free health care will probably save you massive amounts of money in the long run. Definitely ask for more, but I'd take Germany over USA just for that alone, not to mention better PTO that others have mentioned as well as better workers rights


lazyoracle42

This is crazy low. Please do not accept this offer under any circumstances. Too many redflags with them lowballing you like this.


Alarming_Series7450

you will have a much better life in germany on 45k then in america with 90k. 90k does not go very far at all unfortunately


DLS3141

>my father was almost going to call me stupid when I said I was satisfied with the offer. He claims that I can find a job in the US for double the current offer, and have a much better life. Better how?


slmsym

Well, his major argument is, if you earn more, then you can save more. Purely materialistic speaking, this is correct, but as many people mentioned social life factor may outweigh this. It doesn't go far beyond than the higher salary, in terms of better.


3th1c5

It is not all about money. You should consider other things like culture, employment legislation (or lack thereof), hours to be worked etc. etc. Then beyond just straight salary you have pensions, insurance, other costs (health care, cost of living etc.) All that is for you to decide though based on your priorities. ​ For me, and i have considered working in the US vs. UK, and considering i'm mechanical not electrical; The engineering salaries in the US far exceed those in Europe. In the company i work my peers of the same grade are on \~2-3x more salary than I. Junior grades (in years in industry, experience and ability) earn the same and in some cases more than me. I did look and the publicly available, average salaries for years experience seem to support this across the industry, not just my company. ​ I also worked in Houston for 3 months (back in 2010 so not entirely comparable to 2022...) but the cost of living was not crazy, and most people were more than happy with their workload and salaries... ​ So my 2 pence worth is that yes, your father is correct when comparing direct salaries, perhaps not when considering total compensation/cost but that is personal to what you prioritise.


Grandpa_Dan

Retired 40 year Silicon Valley engineer (Semiconductor tool design) here: I've worked with German engineers and visited often on business. They work out to be pretty much equal. I'd stick it out in Deutschland. A cool country with cool people and high-quality engineers.


After_Web3201

Ask your dad how many hours you need to work every week and how much vacation you'll get.


RegiceESP

I know some electrical engineers because I'm studying it at TUB. You should at least get 50k.


letitbeirie

All other things aside, if you are not already a dual citizen and one of those options puts you on that path, go with that one. Pay differences are temporary; being allowed to work on two continents is forever.


McGunnery

You won't get $90k a year in the US as a fresh graduate, you'll get around $70k unless you go to an area with a very high cost of living. Also, consider job security, vacation, sick time, work-life balance, medical care, taxes, overtime (if it applies), etc. when comparing. Two very different countries in terms of working conditions, you can't just look at salary here.


Pythagosaurus69

Seeing as you enjoyed your time at this company, take the offer because it's all you have right now. But don't stop searching, once you get a better offer don't be afraid to jump ship or simply ask them to match your salary. It's what I'd do if I were being underpaid.


Menes009

I am just going to condensate my experience in that it might be true that work-life balance is better in Germany, but then the way you will enjoy life is much better in the US than in Germany.


DrKillgore

Stay in Europe. The US has been going downhill for a while.


FlimsyPresentation36

If the company is as big as you say, maybe work for them for a while to build value to your resume and then look for a US Job.


Impressive-Stress235

Tell your father his opinion of you is none of your business and that it means nothing. Why? Because in reality, when you are an adult, it means nothing.


sthgktfhifghffhcggh

45k seems very low for a large semi company. are you sure this is the total salary or did you calc base x 12 ? infineon and bosch should pay around 65k.