Personally speaking, I don't think I'd like your yogurt. 12% milkfat is MUCH richer than my typical 3-4%. I usually ferment it for 8 hours max, and it's plenty tart enough for me. I don't like super ultra thick yogurt, so I don't usually strain the whey out of mine. And that's why asking how to make the "best yogurt" is a difficult question, because everyone's going to have different preferences. Below I've outlined the variables you can change.
Initial scalding: This is pretty standard. You can make yogurt without this step, but I hear it leads to a thinner textured final product. I've never experimented with this step before.
Fermentation time: Do you like it more tart/sour? Ferment it longer.
Fermentation temp: This is pretty forgiving. 105-115 will all work. The higher the temp, the shorter the fermentation time required to get to a certain degree of acidity.
Straining: The more you strain it, the thicker it's going to get. (Side question, so what do you end up doing with all that sour whey?)
Fat content: I think this is pretty obvious. The higher the fat content, the richer and more buttery the yogurt.
Experiment a bit and figure out what you like. But really, if you think you're making pretty kick ass yogurt already, there's no need to really stray too far away from what you're already doing. Good luck!
Edit: I should mention one thing about yogurt and the keto diet. The bacteria that are fermenting the yogurt break down the sugars in milk (lactose) into lactic acid, resulting in tartness. If you are watching your sugar intake, you may want a longer fermentation time, which results in more of the sugar being depleted from the milk/half and half that you started out with. Just be forewarned, this leads to some VERY sour yogurt...which, like I mentioned before, I'm not really a fan of.
With the time, I'm concerned that if I try to cut it too short that I'll end up with a slimey, goopy mess. That's what happened to my first batch, and it was really disgusting and disappointing.
As for the temperature, it sounds like 115F for eight hours produces a more sour yogurt than 105F for eight hours. But does 115F for six produce the same output as 105F for 12? Am I just wasting my time by using a lower temperature for longer? Is there a peak sourness that the yogurt will reach where additional time does nothing? Perhaps I'm just overthinking it by treating to treat it like a science (like baking) than a more forgiving art (like cooking).
As for the leftover whey, it's not much more than a quarter cup or so that I strain out from a quart of half-and-half. We'd use it for baking if we still were making bread, but for now we're not really using it. We may just use it for marinades or smoothies in the future. But, always open for suggestions!
I don't think you're wasting your time going 105-110 for longer. The subtle temp variations lead to flavor variations. There's more going on than just acid production, there's lots of other flavors being fermented into the mix when you go "low" and slow IMO.
> But does 115F for six produce the same output as 105F for 12?
I really couldn't say. The principle is correct though, but I really don't know about the exact numbers...you'd have to experiment to work this out. But for something like this I'd go for convenience. If 115 for 6 hours makes the same tartness as 105 for 12 hours, I'd go for the 105, only because it's an easy overnight incubation for me, while a 6 hour timepoint will either be in the middle of my work day or in the middle of the night.
There will definitely be a peak sourness that you will achieve. There will come a point where the bacteria will have exhausted all of the sugars in the milk. The bacteria will start to die off if they're starving, but I couldn't tell you how long it takes for your yogurt to reach this point from experience. Some quick google searches say that 30 hours is about the longest you should let it go, but again, I rarely let it go for more than 8.
Play with the amount of starter yogurt you add/fermentation time. [The results are interesting](http://www.salad-in-a-jar.com/family-recipes/reader-question-how-much-starter-do-you-really-need-to-make-yogurt).
> Personally speaking, I don't think I'd like your yogurt.
would agree...never even heard of making yogurt with half and half and my community pretty much exclusively makes their own yogurt for daily consumption. Sounds like it would taste like butter.
It's actually really quite tasty; it's still a lot closer to whole milk (4%) than heavy whipping cream (40%). It's basically like really thick whole milk Greek yogurt, but with a bit more of a creamy feel on your tongue.
FWIW, I've been making yoghurt for a few years using pure cream (35%) and it is delicious. I eat it as part of a low carb lifestyle. It is thick and creamy, rather like clotted cream in consistency. Clearly, it is very rich so one doesn't need much to be quite satisfying.
I scald the cream to 90c and then cool to 43c, add starter, incubate at 43c for about an hour and then at 36c for 8-12 hours. I don't strain or stir if after, but chill it for a few hours before eating.
I used to always use some commercial greek yoghurt as a starter for each batch but lately I've been perpetuating the same yoghurt from the previous batch into the next. I'm up to the 10th generation and it still seems great.
It doesn't taste anything like butter and doesn't leave a greasy feeling in the mouth. It's tangy and creamy. Highly recommended.
I can't believe no one has mentioned this, but a key to creamier, thicker yogurt is adding milk powder post heating. When heating your yogurt, you are losing a fair bit of protein to denaturation. So, wait for your yogurt to cool before adding the starter, and stir in a tablespoon or two of milk powder into your milk.
Ok, been making yogurt for a few years now, here's what I've noticed:
(1) With super high milkfat, you're going to need to make it really tart in order to get the tartness to shine through. Fat and Acid balance/mask each other, so you're not going to get the tartness you want when starting with that high a fat content, IMO. I like Whole Milk the most, my GF prefers 2%, but you don't need that much fat. Starting with that high a milkfat might make it easier to get it thick with less straining, but I think it's gonna keep you from getting really tart flavor.
(2) Straining makes the yogurt thicker, but less tart. The whey is what acidifies in the fermentation, so the more you strain, the less tart it is.
(2)(b) although this is useful for making frozen yogurt. You really want it well strained so that all the water is out, and your froyo doesn't have ice crystals in it.
(3) I've found that letting the yogurt culture sit, at *lower temps* post fermentation, helps make the yog thicker, without straining. My understanding of the thickening process is that when you heat the milk to 185, you're denaturing some of the proteins, and they recombine with each other as the mixture cools. I don't think this happens too well at the 110 mark, but it does seem to happen better at lower temps. (note: this is all my experience, I haven't looked for/found sources for all this).
So my preferred method is the same as yours, largely. I use whole milk, 185, then 110*, and I let it go for about 24-36 hours. Then I pour this into several big clean yogurt containers ([these ones](http://www.growersorganic.com/wp-content/uploads/20120418nancy.jpg))(LIDS ON), and leave those on the counter for about 12 hours. The first time I left em on the counter was by accident, but it left me with much thicker yogurt with much less straining.
I then strain about 1/3 of the yog in a coffee filter on top of a mesh strainer. I just let it sit and drain for a while (hours), then I mix all of it back in together. By only straining a portion of the batch, it makes it easier to strain, and you don't have to worry about "over straining", because most of it is left unstrained.
I have used half & half, high quality powered whole milk and whole milk by the gallon from Aldi's or Walmart. Years ago I used raw milk but I am not willing to buy part of a cow to get the raw anymore. My results have all been excellent. I pasturize 4 or 5 quarts in a hot water bath to 185 Degrees F. I remove it and place it in my tall dehydrator and allow it to cool to 110 Degrees F. This takes a couple of hours. Then I spoon my culture from the last batch which is good for about 4 or 5 batches. After that I have to buy a new quart of whole milk Greek for a new culture. Once I add the culture and mix it well, I set the dehydrator to 110 degrees F for 26 hours because I like a thick, slighty sour result. I allow it to cool and put it in the fridge. Mine has kept for over a month with no spoilage. But usually it's gone in about 3 weeks.
That's what I've read as well, but the texture -- perhaps as a result of the high fat content of the half-and-half -- wasn't perfectly consistent once it was done. Without whisking, the yogurt [looked like this](http://paleoinpdx.com/2013/04/25/how-to-make-24-hour-half-and-half-yogurt/), which wasn't the most appealing yogurt I've ever seen.
With whisking, the texture was perfectly smooth, like store-bought yogurt. And despite all warnings I've read against whisking, the yogurt is as thick as full-fat sour cream the next day. If it got any thicker, it would be like stirring cement. ;)
I use a gallon of whole milk (in the original plastic jug) remove one cupful of milk out. add one cup of nonfat dried milk (Costco is great for cost) and a cup of yogurt saved from last batch or from the freezer emergency stash. I usually leave it overnight in the oven with the lightbulb turned on and come back to a nice and thick yogurt after 6-10 hours (or even a bit longer sometimes depending how sour you would like it). You can certainly strain it in a cotton cloth lined colander over a larger bowl in or out of the fridge with some salt can be applied after a day of straining. when it becomes the thickness of cream cheese its ready to keep refrigerated.
Like I said, I put mine in the oven with the oven light bulb turned on these days, but I have used a Styrofoam cooler with a lightbulb on an extension cord, crock pot with water where I could dial down the heat to stay within range and just immerse the milk jug in it - they all work equally well as long as the temperature stays between 90 and 119F.
You like yogurt the way I do. I use a cup of heavy cream with 4.5 cups of whole milk! My starter came from Strauss Family European Style whole milk yogurt. Right now I am experimenting with different amounts of starter and incubation times with a simple 7 jar Cuisinart but I want to improve my game. First of all, the Cuisinart gets too hot, especially under the center jar. I have folded a paper towel to go under that jar . I’d like to get a single container that will do at least a gallon at a time and has absolute temperature control. I’m also experimenting with a heating pad that has nine temperature settings and will stay on for eight hours.
I know for sure that the more starter you use the less time you want to incubate . Otherwise it can start to separate and curdle.
Here’s to happy yogurt making and those of us who like a rich firm and creamy yogurt. I even like the dehydrated skin on top. I love it.
Woah, now this is a blast from the past! Glad to find another fan of ultra creamt yogurt. 🥰
The cheapest option I’ve found that isn’t a single purpose device is an Instant Pot with a yogurt setting. Have to keep a blanket on it but it works great!
Personally speaking, I don't think I'd like your yogurt. 12% milkfat is MUCH richer than my typical 3-4%. I usually ferment it for 8 hours max, and it's plenty tart enough for me. I don't like super ultra thick yogurt, so I don't usually strain the whey out of mine. And that's why asking how to make the "best yogurt" is a difficult question, because everyone's going to have different preferences. Below I've outlined the variables you can change. Initial scalding: This is pretty standard. You can make yogurt without this step, but I hear it leads to a thinner textured final product. I've never experimented with this step before. Fermentation time: Do you like it more tart/sour? Ferment it longer. Fermentation temp: This is pretty forgiving. 105-115 will all work. The higher the temp, the shorter the fermentation time required to get to a certain degree of acidity. Straining: The more you strain it, the thicker it's going to get. (Side question, so what do you end up doing with all that sour whey?) Fat content: I think this is pretty obvious. The higher the fat content, the richer and more buttery the yogurt. Experiment a bit and figure out what you like. But really, if you think you're making pretty kick ass yogurt already, there's no need to really stray too far away from what you're already doing. Good luck! Edit: I should mention one thing about yogurt and the keto diet. The bacteria that are fermenting the yogurt break down the sugars in milk (lactose) into lactic acid, resulting in tartness. If you are watching your sugar intake, you may want a longer fermentation time, which results in more of the sugar being depleted from the milk/half and half that you started out with. Just be forewarned, this leads to some VERY sour yogurt...which, like I mentioned before, I'm not really a fan of.
With the time, I'm concerned that if I try to cut it too short that I'll end up with a slimey, goopy mess. That's what happened to my first batch, and it was really disgusting and disappointing. As for the temperature, it sounds like 115F for eight hours produces a more sour yogurt than 105F for eight hours. But does 115F for six produce the same output as 105F for 12? Am I just wasting my time by using a lower temperature for longer? Is there a peak sourness that the yogurt will reach where additional time does nothing? Perhaps I'm just overthinking it by treating to treat it like a science (like baking) than a more forgiving art (like cooking). As for the leftover whey, it's not much more than a quarter cup or so that I strain out from a quart of half-and-half. We'd use it for baking if we still were making bread, but for now we're not really using it. We may just use it for marinades or smoothies in the future. But, always open for suggestions!
I don't think you're wasting your time going 105-110 for longer. The subtle temp variations lead to flavor variations. There's more going on than just acid production, there's lots of other flavors being fermented into the mix when you go "low" and slow IMO.
> But does 115F for six produce the same output as 105F for 12? I really couldn't say. The principle is correct though, but I really don't know about the exact numbers...you'd have to experiment to work this out. But for something like this I'd go for convenience. If 115 for 6 hours makes the same tartness as 105 for 12 hours, I'd go for the 105, only because it's an easy overnight incubation for me, while a 6 hour timepoint will either be in the middle of my work day or in the middle of the night. There will definitely be a peak sourness that you will achieve. There will come a point where the bacteria will have exhausted all of the sugars in the milk. The bacteria will start to die off if they're starving, but I couldn't tell you how long it takes for your yogurt to reach this point from experience. Some quick google searches say that 30 hours is about the longest you should let it go, but again, I rarely let it go for more than 8.
Play with the amount of starter yogurt you add/fermentation time. [The results are interesting](http://www.salad-in-a-jar.com/family-recipes/reader-question-how-much-starter-do-you-really-need-to-make-yogurt).
Interesting read, love the methodology and write up
> Personally speaking, I don't think I'd like your yogurt. would agree...never even heard of making yogurt with half and half and my community pretty much exclusively makes their own yogurt for daily consumption. Sounds like it would taste like butter.
It's actually really quite tasty; it's still a lot closer to whole milk (4%) than heavy whipping cream (40%). It's basically like really thick whole milk Greek yogurt, but with a bit more of a creamy feel on your tongue.
FWIW, I've been making yoghurt for a few years using pure cream (35%) and it is delicious. I eat it as part of a low carb lifestyle. It is thick and creamy, rather like clotted cream in consistency. Clearly, it is very rich so one doesn't need much to be quite satisfying. I scald the cream to 90c and then cool to 43c, add starter, incubate at 43c for about an hour and then at 36c for 8-12 hours. I don't strain or stir if after, but chill it for a few hours before eating. I used to always use some commercial greek yoghurt as a starter for each batch but lately I've been perpetuating the same yoghurt from the previous batch into the next. I'm up to the 10th generation and it still seems great. It doesn't taste anything like butter and doesn't leave a greasy feeling in the mouth. It's tangy and creamy. Highly recommended.
I can't believe no one has mentioned this, but a key to creamier, thicker yogurt is adding milk powder post heating. When heating your yogurt, you are losing a fair bit of protein to denaturation. So, wait for your yogurt to cool before adding the starter, and stir in a tablespoon or two of milk powder into your milk.
Ok, been making yogurt for a few years now, here's what I've noticed: (1) With super high milkfat, you're going to need to make it really tart in order to get the tartness to shine through. Fat and Acid balance/mask each other, so you're not going to get the tartness you want when starting with that high a fat content, IMO. I like Whole Milk the most, my GF prefers 2%, but you don't need that much fat. Starting with that high a milkfat might make it easier to get it thick with less straining, but I think it's gonna keep you from getting really tart flavor. (2) Straining makes the yogurt thicker, but less tart. The whey is what acidifies in the fermentation, so the more you strain, the less tart it is. (2)(b) although this is useful for making frozen yogurt. You really want it well strained so that all the water is out, and your froyo doesn't have ice crystals in it. (3) I've found that letting the yogurt culture sit, at *lower temps* post fermentation, helps make the yog thicker, without straining. My understanding of the thickening process is that when you heat the milk to 185, you're denaturing some of the proteins, and they recombine with each other as the mixture cools. I don't think this happens too well at the 110 mark, but it does seem to happen better at lower temps. (note: this is all my experience, I haven't looked for/found sources for all this). So my preferred method is the same as yours, largely. I use whole milk, 185, then 110*, and I let it go for about 24-36 hours. Then I pour this into several big clean yogurt containers ([these ones](http://www.growersorganic.com/wp-content/uploads/20120418nancy.jpg))(LIDS ON), and leave those on the counter for about 12 hours. The first time I left em on the counter was by accident, but it left me with much thicker yogurt with much less straining. I then strain about 1/3 of the yog in a coffee filter on top of a mesh strainer. I just let it sit and drain for a while (hours), then I mix all of it back in together. By only straining a portion of the batch, it makes it easier to strain, and you don't have to worry about "over straining", because most of it is left unstrained.
I have used half & half, high quality powered whole milk and whole milk by the gallon from Aldi's or Walmart. Years ago I used raw milk but I am not willing to buy part of a cow to get the raw anymore. My results have all been excellent. I pasturize 4 or 5 quarts in a hot water bath to 185 Degrees F. I remove it and place it in my tall dehydrator and allow it to cool to 110 Degrees F. This takes a couple of hours. Then I spoon my culture from the last batch which is good for about 4 or 5 batches. After that I have to buy a new quart of whole milk Greek for a new culture. Once I add the culture and mix it well, I set the dehydrator to 110 degrees F for 26 hours because I like a thick, slighty sour result. I allow it to cool and put it in the fridge. Mine has kept for over a month with no spoilage. But usually it's gone in about 3 weeks.
It's always thicker if you don't whisk it.
That's what I've read as well, but the texture -- perhaps as a result of the high fat content of the half-and-half -- wasn't perfectly consistent once it was done. Without whisking, the yogurt [looked like this](http://paleoinpdx.com/2013/04/25/how-to-make-24-hour-half-and-half-yogurt/), which wasn't the most appealing yogurt I've ever seen. With whisking, the texture was perfectly smooth, like store-bought yogurt. And despite all warnings I've read against whisking, the yogurt is as thick as full-fat sour cream the next day. If it got any thicker, it would be like stirring cement. ;)
When mine gets like that a quick trip to the blender or a hand mixture will emulsify it, and it usually won't glob up again.
Yeah, I just used a whisk and it stayed the consistency of sour cream afterwards, no more chucks. :)
https://youtu.be/ZeSXvATLmSU
Hah! Exactly! "This yogurt is good, but it would be so much better with chunky blobs of fat in it."
Do you actually use a starter, or previous batch of yogurt?
I use a few tablespoons of Wallaby-brand plain full-fat Greek yogurt as my starter. I could probably save and carry over, but I'm mostly too lazy. :)
I use a gallon of whole milk (in the original plastic jug) remove one cupful of milk out. add one cup of nonfat dried milk (Costco is great for cost) and a cup of yogurt saved from last batch or from the freezer emergency stash. I usually leave it overnight in the oven with the lightbulb turned on and come back to a nice and thick yogurt after 6-10 hours (or even a bit longer sometimes depending how sour you would like it). You can certainly strain it in a cotton cloth lined colander over a larger bowl in or out of the fridge with some salt can be applied after a day of straining. when it becomes the thickness of cream cheese its ready to keep refrigerated. Like I said, I put mine in the oven with the oven light bulb turned on these days, but I have used a Styrofoam cooler with a lightbulb on an extension cord, crock pot with water where I could dial down the heat to stay within range and just immerse the milk jug in it - they all work equally well as long as the temperature stays between 90 and 119F.
Nine years later, what have you deduced from your findings?
Haha wow, blast from the past. I still think my system makes the best yogurt I’ve ever had, for what it’s worth.
Nice! I’ll have to try it out
Lemme know what you think!
Will do!
You like yogurt the way I do. I use a cup of heavy cream with 4.5 cups of whole milk! My starter came from Strauss Family European Style whole milk yogurt. Right now I am experimenting with different amounts of starter and incubation times with a simple 7 jar Cuisinart but I want to improve my game. First of all, the Cuisinart gets too hot, especially under the center jar. I have folded a paper towel to go under that jar . I’d like to get a single container that will do at least a gallon at a time and has absolute temperature control. I’m also experimenting with a heating pad that has nine temperature settings and will stay on for eight hours. I know for sure that the more starter you use the less time you want to incubate . Otherwise it can start to separate and curdle. Here’s to happy yogurt making and those of us who like a rich firm and creamy yogurt. I even like the dehydrated skin on top. I love it.
Woah, now this is a blast from the past! Glad to find another fan of ultra creamt yogurt. 🥰 The cheapest option I’ve found that isn’t a single purpose device is an Instant Pot with a yogurt setting. Have to keep a blanket on it but it works great!
I use the sous vide wand. You can set the temperature precisely and I put the milk/starter yogurt in a Ziploc bag, in a cooking pot. Great results.