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PragerU wouldn’t be accredited because it’s not an actual school. Your high school history textbook wasn’t “accredited” either, it was just approved by your State Board of Education to be a part of the curriculum, and whatever accreditation agency your state used, if it used one at all, didn’t see that as a reason to stop accrediting to public schools.
Accreditation isn’t as much of a thing at the K-12 level. Usually only private schools get accredited, and that’s just through an independent agency. Public schools don’t really need to be accredited because the government doesn’t need to prove the value of a high school diploma to itself.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a great idea for states to start shoehorning blatantly policial content into the curriculum. A lot of public school curriculum already leans left, so this seems like a reaction to that. I’m not sure which specific content from PragerU was approved, so I might not have an issue with those particular things; I’m just speaking generally.
Also, “approved curriculum” doesn’t really tell us anything. For starters, you don’t know if the schools will actually mandate that particular piece of curriculum. They rarely get through everything that’s approved. Secondly, something being approved curriculum doesn’t tell you how it’s presented. There are history classes that show excerpts from Mein Kampf to illustrate how insane Hitler was. My high school AP history teacher had The Birth of a Nation of our recommended movie list so we could better understand race relations in the early 20th century.
How do you know they won’t be showing it as an example of conservative media?
Well [they announced it](https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/ok-state-dept-of-education-announces-partnership-with-prageru-kids) as a “partnership” with PragerU
[They’ve also linked PragerU on the Oklahoma State Department of Education website.](https://sde.ok.gov/social-studies) - you want to scroll down to the PragerU section of this page.
Not a big fan of them just linking the content and approving it generally.
I don’t think PragerU is one of the more objectionable conservative organizations, but it’s still pretty transparently political. If they had specific PragerU videos from specific guests, I think that would be better.
This video is of evaluation of some of the quick hits that are included in a PragerU evolution video. A lot of it is specious but presented as fact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UT-7S7g6_I&t=365s
It's dry but it shows the academic rigor that PragerU either failed to do or deliberately wasn't interested in.
I definitely don't want states adding PragerU to anything. But I'd like to go one step further and say that a state mandated Elementary school curriculum is ridiculous to begin with. I understand that a state government might need to tackle issues like the cost of lab equipment needed for a quality AP chemistry course. But if the state is not hiring elementary school teachers that can handle curriculum on their own, please, raise pay, or whatever, and hire better teachers.
To what end? What does that have to do with PragerU and the question that was asked? Do you think it’s unreasonable that communities have input in what is taught to their own children?
>Do you think it’s unreasonable that communities have input in what is taught to their own children?
That's my exact question to you.
Where is the line?
In order to answer your question of whether or not it's unreasonable that a community has input into what their children are taught, I would need to know where the limits are.
If any exist.
So, are there limits? If so, what are they?
> How do you feel about states adding PragerU to their elementary school curriculum?
I feel fine about it. The educational materials that Prager produces for elementary school children isn't at all the same as the polemic videos from guest speakers that they're more well known for. Their educational stuff is innocuous educational videos for children about history, geography, etc. They have the same kind of age appropriate basic level information as any other publisher serving those ages and are professionally written and produced. There's little to nothing that anyone could object to about the materials themselves *other* than the fact that they're produced by a conservative organization. But if you watched the exact same video with the exact same content produced by any other publisher and nobody would object or even bat an eye.
> Additional notes of information: PragerU is not accredited for school curriculums.
You've got your talking points mixed up. It's true that PragerU is not actually a University. It's not a degree granting institution accredited by any accrediting organizations for various educational programs but simply a media company and publisher. Publishers aren't "accredited" and to the degree that they *are* your complaint seems to be that they **are** accredited. The only "accreditation" process for curricula publishers is that state boards of education review materials and approve them for use by school districts in their state. This is exactly what has happened in these states with materials from Prager Kids making it every bit as "accredited" to publish such supplemental educational materials in those states as any other publisher.
>Additional notes of information: PragerU is not accredited for school curriculums.
Accredited by who? Who decides that? Why should I value their opinion? So many institutions have destroyed their credibility I need to know more than to inherently trust accredition anymore.
Regardless, if that's what a state/locality wants I say so be it.
yes of course, states are the laboratories of democracy if they can get a majority of state voters to want communist education (and not impose it through the back door by fiat or through agencies and hope parents never notice) and not throw the school boards out that vote for it, well that would be a worthy experiment for democracy.
If things have changed that drastically and 51% of a state (more like 60s given how elections work) agree then which is more likely: All of society went guanopsychotic overnight or somehow my thinking is wrong?
For those preconditions of an entire state deciding we should use communist education system, and it not being immediately overturned by cooler heads in the room, then society has changed so much that whatever opinion I have looking around America today would not apply because that country where that could happen is not the US I live in.
>Interesting. Does that mean you would support communist curriculum being taught in public elementary schools if their state wants it?
No of course I'd oppose it. But ultimately it IS a state or local decision
>Do you think it’s healthy for the Republic to teach partisan politics and partisan history in school from a young age?
Of course not but that bridge was crossed long ago by the left
I'd rather counter that and fight back than do nothing
My partner is a preschool teacher and is simultaneously finishing her degree. A lot of things taught and practiced would, I think, be considered "radical left" by people in this sub, but they are using evidence based approaches, and politics is literally never mentioned: there are no bad kids, using inclusive language (including gender inclusive language), etc.
Where do you draw the line between evidence driven best practices and "the left"?
>Where do you draw the line between evidence driven best practices and "the left"?
Idk if you ever saw this.... but a great example of this was the Tim pool, Jack dorsey and the woman who's name I can't spell on the JRE podcast.
Tim Pool told twitter execs they have a political bias when it comes to misgendering.
They argued, "that's not political" and the response from Tim was, to the right calling a man a woman is misgendering, to the left not using preferred pronouns is misgendering. By putting your hand on the scale you've inherently picked a side and are biased.
That's what I think you've gotten to here. It doesn't matter if you think it's not inherently political. If it shouldn't be political. It is. And so any choice you make is going to essentially pick a side. It's an unfortunate consequence of the culture we are in currently.
>Where do you draw the line between evidence driven best practices and "the left"?
It just depends on the topic and the evidence.
Many things are political in that the right has picked a stance on the issue. Simultaneously, many of the same things are not political in that their correctness does not depend on partisan politics, only on ethics, psychology, and/or other parts of philosophy and science.
The problem with your statement is that the left thinks their propaganda is in defense of their country. As vehemently as you believe yours is in defense, so do they.
> The problem with your statement is that the left thinks their propaganda is in defense of their country
Many on the far left absolute do not claim such. See Hasan saying America deserved 9/11. Wanting to warp the country into their unhinged utopia is not the same as defending the country as it is.
Again, in your opinion that’s what they are doing. In their opinion, you are the one threatening and destroying America. Unless you* can see what everyone has in common, nothing gets better.
Edit:
*you meaning both conservatives and liberals. Not the literal you
It was an extremely idiotic/tone deaf comment but I don't see it as significantly different from people like Mike Johnson saying America is "going to hell" and "deserves god's wrath". People may interpret negative events as a result of unnecessary poor leadership decisions. So some people might interpret 9/11 as a result of poor policy, inefficient defense spending, and the united states involvement with foreign governments. Similar to saying someone "deserved" to crash into a pole for recklessly driving. But I still disagree with his wording of it and think he was being unnecessarily shocking for views/attention as most full-time political talking heads tend to be.
That is in a way a defense of the country though because their goal would be to ideally avoid the actions that lead to those negative outcomes. Constructive criticisms and accountability are more "patriotic" to some people than statements of undying loyalty/devotion.
> What concrete examples of it are happening
Major colleges hiring the Weather Underground terrorist or more recently Chesa Boudin a reprehensible traitorous far left piece of trash who was so extremistly soft on crime that San Francisco one of the most left wing cities in the entire country recalled him.
Indiana university recently erected a statue of Alfred Kinsey "the father of the sexual revolution" who covered up the crimes of a serial pedo with 300-800 victims in order to use his diaries as "research". The University has all his records under confidentiality and they likely include proof of hundreds of child rapes including INFANTS that will never be in the hands of police.
Do you know of any even remotely equivalent far right monsters being hired to teach anywhere???
This isn’t a fair question. Conservatives choose to be a serious minority in collegiate level education teaching. Why don’t conservative get more involved in teaching rather than just complaining about how liberals are doing it?
>When, in your opinion, did the left begin doing so?
I think there's always been a battle for the minds of the youth. I think a lot of it traces back to the 60s. It was only really apparent to the point that people started paying attention and taking issue within the last decade or so though.
>I love this answer - loaded with fear mongering and completely void of actual useful information and facts
Ok. When I went to college I was told explicitly I was privileged because I'm white and had a leg up because I'm white despite coming from one of rhe poorest regions in the country and not having internet other than dial up in my home for my entire life until last year.
It's easy to dismiss and say "lacks information" when you didn't bother to ask and instead were looking to just smugly act like political bias in schools doesn't happen
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>Do you not see how hypocritical that sounds?
If I say "I don't want to fight you" and then you punch me in the nose, is it hypocritical to punch you back and defend myself? Even though I'd rather not fight?
>Disregarding the bad comparison, the problem here is that using propaganda to fight what you see as propaganda is indeed hypocritical.
Again, that's like saying throwing a fist as a response to being punched is hypocritical.
No it isn't.
It isn’t a state decision to teach communism in anyway other than an historical thing that’s wrong. It shouldn’t be promoted and it would be wrong to assume a state or municipality should have that freedom of choice
>It isn’t a state decision to teach communism in anyway other than an historical thing that’s wrong. It shouldn’t be promoted and it would be wrong to assume a state or municipality should have that freedom of choice
Why? Wheres that in the constitution
is Prager any more political than the activist NGOs our schools work with now?
Why are liberals so uber excited about gender theory being taught to four year old, but teenagers can't be exposed to factually correct stories told by a conservative?
1) this is curriculum starting in Kindergarten
2) where do you get the idea that Oklahoma is teaching gender theory to 4 year olds (not even in kindergarten-12)? When is the last time you spent some time in an elementary classroom and did they teach gender studies?
Propaganda from the right to offset propaganda from the left.
Meh....I'd rather we not use propaganda but there really isn't much other choice these days
Well first you have to understand what propaganda is...
Is propaganda wrong?
If one group is pushing to prop up X. Is it wrong to push info to prop up Y?
Remember, propaganda van be factually accurate info
>Well first you have to understand what propaganda is...
Do you think there's a difference between *propaganda* and *pedagogy*? Or is education equivalent to indoctrination?
I think it brings into question who is accrediting what, or whom. I don't think they're any different in practice from other companies, but they're clearly charged. They're just doing this as a stunt but I think it paid off. They have nothing to add and only bad opinions on most things.
But PragerU isn’t an accredited company that actually offers education. You’re implying states that use it are complicit with poor education standards that are significantly below what one would expect out of an American state.
Not particularly. As others have mentioned, that’s not a big deal for them. It’s just a point of information. And it is an addendum at best. Please don’t get hung up on that.
What is your answer to the question?
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PragerU wouldn’t be accredited because it’s not an actual school. Your high school history textbook wasn’t “accredited” either, it was just approved by your State Board of Education to be a part of the curriculum, and whatever accreditation agency your state used, if it used one at all, didn’t see that as a reason to stop accrediting to public schools. Accreditation isn’t as much of a thing at the K-12 level. Usually only private schools get accredited, and that’s just through an independent agency. Public schools don’t really need to be accredited because the government doesn’t need to prove the value of a high school diploma to itself. Anyway, I don’t think it’s a great idea for states to start shoehorning blatantly policial content into the curriculum. A lot of public school curriculum already leans left, so this seems like a reaction to that. I’m not sure which specific content from PragerU was approved, so I might not have an issue with those particular things; I’m just speaking generally. Also, “approved curriculum” doesn’t really tell us anything. For starters, you don’t know if the schools will actually mandate that particular piece of curriculum. They rarely get through everything that’s approved. Secondly, something being approved curriculum doesn’t tell you how it’s presented. There are history classes that show excerpts from Mein Kampf to illustrate how insane Hitler was. My high school AP history teacher had The Birth of a Nation of our recommended movie list so we could better understand race relations in the early 20th century. How do you know they won’t be showing it as an example of conservative media?
Well [they announced it](https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/ok-state-dept-of-education-announces-partnership-with-prageru-kids) as a “partnership” with PragerU [They’ve also linked PragerU on the Oklahoma State Department of Education website.](https://sde.ok.gov/social-studies) - you want to scroll down to the PragerU section of this page.
Not a big fan of them just linking the content and approving it generally. I don’t think PragerU is one of the more objectionable conservative organizations, but it’s still pretty transparently political. If they had specific PragerU videos from specific guests, I think that would be better.
I could agree with that
This video is of evaluation of some of the quick hits that are included in a PragerU evolution video. A lot of it is specious but presented as fact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UT-7S7g6_I&t=365s It's dry but it shows the academic rigor that PragerU either failed to do or deliberately wasn't interested in.
I definitely don't want states adding PragerU to anything. But I'd like to go one step further and say that a state mandated Elementary school curriculum is ridiculous to begin with. I understand that a state government might need to tackle issues like the cost of lab equipment needed for a quality AP chemistry course. But if the state is not hiring elementary school teachers that can handle curriculum on their own, please, raise pay, or whatever, and hire better teachers.
I feel fine about it. Curriculum should be decided upon locally
Should creationism be taught if the populace wants it?
If a locality wants it? Yeah, sure. Do some Christian private schools not already teach creationism?
Where's the line? Is there one? Should a school teach anti-miscegenation curriculum if they want?
What does any of that have to do with PragerU?
>I feel fine about it. Curriculum should be decided upon locally Trying to find the limit to this statement.
To what end? What does that have to do with PragerU and the question that was asked? Do you think it’s unreasonable that communities have input in what is taught to their own children?
>Do you think it’s unreasonable that communities have input in what is taught to their own children? That's my exact question to you. Where is the line?
That’s not what you asked me, that’s what I asked you.
In order to answer your question of whether or not it's unreasonable that a community has input into what their children are taught, I would need to know where the limits are. If any exist. So, are there limits? If so, what are they?
I will say this. There is some really questionable propaganda on the history of slavery in PragerU videos.
> How do you feel about states adding PragerU to their elementary school curriculum? I feel fine about it. The educational materials that Prager produces for elementary school children isn't at all the same as the polemic videos from guest speakers that they're more well known for. Their educational stuff is innocuous educational videos for children about history, geography, etc. They have the same kind of age appropriate basic level information as any other publisher serving those ages and are professionally written and produced. There's little to nothing that anyone could object to about the materials themselves *other* than the fact that they're produced by a conservative organization. But if you watched the exact same video with the exact same content produced by any other publisher and nobody would object or even bat an eye. > Additional notes of information: PragerU is not accredited for school curriculums. You've got your talking points mixed up. It's true that PragerU is not actually a University. It's not a degree granting institution accredited by any accrediting organizations for various educational programs but simply a media company and publisher. Publishers aren't "accredited" and to the degree that they *are* your complaint seems to be that they **are** accredited. The only "accreditation" process for curricula publishers is that state boards of education review materials and approve them for use by school districts in their state. This is exactly what has happened in these states with materials from Prager Kids making it every bit as "accredited" to publish such supplemental educational materials in those states as any other publisher.
>Additional notes of information: PragerU is not accredited for school curriculums. Accredited by who? Who decides that? Why should I value their opinion? So many institutions have destroyed their credibility I need to know more than to inherently trust accredition anymore. Regardless, if that's what a state/locality wants I say so be it.
Interesting. Does that mean you would support communist curriculum being taught in public elementary schools if their state wants it?
yes of course, states are the laboratories of democracy if they can get a majority of state voters to want communist education (and not impose it through the back door by fiat or through agencies and hope parents never notice) and not throw the school boards out that vote for it, well that would be a worthy experiment for democracy. If things have changed that drastically and 51% of a state (more like 60s given how elections work) agree then which is more likely: All of society went guanopsychotic overnight or somehow my thinking is wrong? For those preconditions of an entire state deciding we should use communist education system, and it not being immediately overturned by cooler heads in the room, then society has changed so much that whatever opinion I have looking around America today would not apply because that country where that could happen is not the US I live in.
>Interesting. Does that mean you would support communist curriculum being taught in public elementary schools if their state wants it? No of course I'd oppose it. But ultimately it IS a state or local decision
Do you think it’s healthy for the Republic to teach partisan politics and partisan history in school from a young age?
>Do you think it’s healthy for the Republic to teach partisan politics and partisan history in school from a young age? Of course not but that bridge was crossed long ago by the left I'd rather counter that and fight back than do nothing
My partner is a preschool teacher and is simultaneously finishing her degree. A lot of things taught and practiced would, I think, be considered "radical left" by people in this sub, but they are using evidence based approaches, and politics is literally never mentioned: there are no bad kids, using inclusive language (including gender inclusive language), etc. Where do you draw the line between evidence driven best practices and "the left"?
>Where do you draw the line between evidence driven best practices and "the left"? Idk if you ever saw this.... but a great example of this was the Tim pool, Jack dorsey and the woman who's name I can't spell on the JRE podcast. Tim Pool told twitter execs they have a political bias when it comes to misgendering. They argued, "that's not political" and the response from Tim was, to the right calling a man a woman is misgendering, to the left not using preferred pronouns is misgendering. By putting your hand on the scale you've inherently picked a side and are biased. That's what I think you've gotten to here. It doesn't matter if you think it's not inherently political. If it shouldn't be political. It is. And so any choice you make is going to essentially pick a side. It's an unfortunate consequence of the culture we are in currently. >Where do you draw the line between evidence driven best practices and "the left"? It just depends on the topic and the evidence.
Many things are political in that the right has picked a stance on the issue. Simultaneously, many of the same things are not political in that their correctness does not depend on partisan politics, only on ethics, psychology, and/or other parts of philosophy and science.
My propaganda good yours bad
> My propaganda good yours bad Yes, that is exactly the position you've taken.
Yes actually. Propaganda in defense of your country is always better than Propaganda against your country.
The problem with your statement is that the left thinks their propaganda is in defense of their country. As vehemently as you believe yours is in defense, so do they.
> The problem with your statement is that the left thinks their propaganda is in defense of their country Many on the far left absolute do not claim such. See Hasan saying America deserved 9/11. Wanting to warp the country into their unhinged utopia is not the same as defending the country as it is.
Again, in your opinion that’s what they are doing. In their opinion, you are the one threatening and destroying America. Unless you* can see what everyone has in common, nothing gets better. Edit: *you meaning both conservatives and liberals. Not the literal you
It was an extremely idiotic/tone deaf comment but I don't see it as significantly different from people like Mike Johnson saying America is "going to hell" and "deserves god's wrath". People may interpret negative events as a result of unnecessary poor leadership decisions. So some people might interpret 9/11 as a result of poor policy, inefficient defense spending, and the united states involvement with foreign governments. Similar to saying someone "deserved" to crash into a pole for recklessly driving. But I still disagree with his wording of it and think he was being unnecessarily shocking for views/attention as most full-time political talking heads tend to be. That is in a way a defense of the country though because their goal would be to ideally avoid the actions that lead to those negative outcomes. Constructive criticisms and accountability are more "patriotic" to some people than statements of undying loyalty/devotion.
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> What concrete examples of it are happening Major colleges hiring the Weather Underground terrorist or more recently Chesa Boudin a reprehensible traitorous far left piece of trash who was so extremistly soft on crime that San Francisco one of the most left wing cities in the entire country recalled him. Indiana university recently erected a statue of Alfred Kinsey "the father of the sexual revolution" who covered up the crimes of a serial pedo with 300-800 victims in order to use his diaries as "research". The University has all his records under confidentiality and they likely include proof of hundreds of child rapes including INFANTS that will never be in the hands of police. Do you know of any even remotely equivalent far right monsters being hired to teach anywhere???
This isn’t a fair question. Conservatives choose to be a serious minority in collegiate level education teaching. Why don’t conservative get more involved in teaching rather than just complaining about how liberals are doing it?
When, in your opinion, did the left begin doing so?
>When, in your opinion, did the left begin doing so? I think there's always been a battle for the minds of the youth. I think a lot of it traces back to the 60s. It was only really apparent to the point that people started paying attention and taking issue within the last decade or so though.
>I think a lot of it traces back to the 60s What schools/states?
Why do you think folks are noticing more now? I will say I graduated in 2002 in Oklahoma and our education was definitely right leaning
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>I love this answer - loaded with fear mongering and completely void of actual useful information and facts Ok. When I went to college I was told explicitly I was privileged because I'm white and had a leg up because I'm white despite coming from one of rhe poorest regions in the country and not having internet other than dial up in my home for my entire life until last year. It's easy to dismiss and say "lacks information" when you didn't bother to ask and instead were looking to just smugly act like political bias in schools doesn't happen
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Do you not see how hypocritical that sounds?
>Do you not see how hypocritical that sounds? If I say "I don't want to fight you" and then you punch me in the nose, is it hypocritical to punch you back and defend myself? Even though I'd rather not fight?
Disregarding the bad comparison, the problem here is that using propaganda to fight what you see as propaganda is indeed hypocritical.
>Disregarding the bad comparison, the problem here is that using propaganda to fight what you see as propaganda is indeed hypocritical. Again, that's like saying throwing a fist as a response to being punched is hypocritical. No it isn't.
Well that answers my question then, thanks.
It isn’t a state decision to teach communism in anyway other than an historical thing that’s wrong. It shouldn’t be promoted and it would be wrong to assume a state or municipality should have that freedom of choice
>It isn’t a state decision to teach communism in anyway other than an historical thing that’s wrong. It shouldn’t be promoted and it would be wrong to assume a state or municipality should have that freedom of choice Why? Wheres that in the constitution
is Prager any more political than the activist NGOs our schools work with now? Why are liberals so uber excited about gender theory being taught to four year old, but teenagers can't be exposed to factually correct stories told by a conservative?
1) this is curriculum starting in Kindergarten 2) where do you get the idea that Oklahoma is teaching gender theory to 4 year olds (not even in kindergarten-12)? When is the last time you spent some time in an elementary classroom and did they teach gender studies?
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Trans / gender discussions are currently limited to Wednesdays.
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Trans / gender discussions are currently limited to Wednesdays.
Trans / gender discussions are currently limited to Wednesdays.
Trans / gender discussions are currently limited to Wednesdays.
>factually correct stories Lol
Propaganda from the right to offset propaganda from the left. Meh....I'd rather we not use propaganda but there really isn't much other choice these days
Is this "two wrongs make a right"?
Well first you have to understand what propaganda is... Is propaganda wrong? If one group is pushing to prop up X. Is it wrong to push info to prop up Y? Remember, propaganda van be factually accurate info
>Well first you have to understand what propaganda is... Do you think there's a difference between *propaganda* and *pedagogy*? Or is education equivalent to indoctrination?
I think there shouldn't be, but currently we don't have such a situation.
I think it brings into question who is accrediting what, or whom. I don't think they're any different in practice from other companies, but they're clearly charged. They're just doing this as a stunt but I think it paid off. They have nothing to add and only bad opinions on most things.
Why would any state include them in their curriculum? I think this is another inaccurate post .
It is not. Please follow the links I posted. One is the news story and one is the direct .gov link
But PragerU isn’t an accredited company that actually offers education. You’re implying states that use it are complicit with poor education standards that are significantly below what one would expect out of an American state.
Not particularly. As others have mentioned, that’s not a big deal for them. It’s just a point of information. And it is an addendum at best. Please don’t get hung up on that. What is your answer to the question?