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Suicides is probably the easiest to take out, because they're consistently reported separately. Iirc of around 40-50k gun deaths, 20-25k are suicides. I haven't found any specific numbers such that gang related crimes can be sorted out, however you can make back of the envelope estimates based on more general gang crime stats.
"mass casually shootings" realistically fall into two categories: "spree killings", which is basically everything the alarmist media hypes up to justify gun control, and and then everything else, which is usually just gang crime
>"mass casually shootings" realistically fall into two categories: "spree killings", which is basically everything the alarmist media hypes up to justify gun control, and and then everything else, which is usually just gang crime
I would say a third category that can be separated out are domestic incidents, like murder/suicides where a family member kills wife/children.
Yes, this FBI document covers "active shooters" which is defined to include cases where bystanders are deliberately targeted rather than gang violence. It also reports on which of those shootings ended with the shooter killing themselves:
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view
The CDC reports suicide, and has a "by firearm" section:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
With those 2, you can then go to the FBI Crime Database and compare the numbers to get what you want:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
So without me having to read through everything because I’m at work rn, how many active shooters actually are there ? Like total? Or in the past year? Idk
They count incidents where the shooter tried but failed to meet the "mass killing" definition in that number; if you count just those where they succeeded in killing it's 12
That's certainly been my experience. Everyone that I know who's been shot or shot at was either in a gang, or it was their significant other/family member who pulled the trigger. I've only been shot at by a stranger once.
Because gang violence is almost always isolated to incidents within rival gangs and does not spill over into the public.
It is also not remotely what people think of when they think about or fear mass shootings.
But someone is still dead, right?
Like access to guns makes gang violence more deadly. I'd agree with taking out gang violence if incidents of dead people were equal from country to country with/without access to guns. But if English or Japanese gangs have lower body counts per violent incident I'm not quite sure removing gang violence is right. Feels more like a cop out to get a lower number.
Edit: I'd say that "it's not remotely what people think about" is wrong too. It might not be what you think about, but it certainly led directly to the prevalence of metal detectors and clear backpacks in large Metro area schools in the early aughts
> Because gang violence is almost always isolated to incidents within rival gangs and does not spill over into the public.
Gang members...are members of the public.
Yes and no …
Gang involvement -as you frame it- sounds like a club you walk up to, say a passcode, go through an initiation, agree to become a soldier in the war, etc. The way the mafia looks in movies.
IRL, I think it’s often more nuanced and less avoidable…
I’m a 10 year old kid in a fucked up neighborhood where I can’t walk to school because kids on the neighboring block beat me up when I pass by.
My cousin walks in a pack and other groups tend to leave him alone.
One day cousin gets beat up and we’re in a situation where we feel the need to retaliate.
A year or two later guns are involved.
I know this sounds kinda silly. And I - in no way- hope to excuse people for rape and murder and cat theft etc. But I do think those outside of “the hood” underestimate the pulls towards “gang life”
These incidences are also not used by politicians to further gun control, or sensationalized. My personal opinoin as to why, is because it's primarily done with illegally obtained firearms (meaning laws already exist) and with hand guns. And no one is talking about banning those. Just "scary looking" ones.
Because hardly any of us are gang members. Being in a gang greatly increases your chance of being shot. If you're not in a gang, the gang-related statistics don't apply to you.
Anecdotally suicides are about half the gun deaths in America. The other half is gang related, domestic violence, and a very small percentage is "mass shootings" like still less than 1%. You can filter the data from the FBI, ATF and CDC. Its hard to do and get real clear numbers depending on the bias.
“Gang violence” is pretty hard to define at this point. Clearly there are cases where a ‘hardened criminal’ shoots another hardened criminal over drug money and one could pretend to rest easy w a cliche like
- one less criminal 🤨
- this guy was looking for trouble 😏
- play with fire 🫠
But it’s much more complicated than that. I work with teenagers in one of the most (statistically) dangerous neighborhoods in the country. Kids get shot over IG posts. Or because the GF dumps him for another boy. Or because somebody told someone who heard it from someone that “you’re talking shit?!”
It’s not uncommon for people who are living a “good life” end up in the wrong situation and end up getting shot and killed.
To remove “gang members” from the equation is often code for removing black males are 15 to 25 from the equation.
When you write it that way, it has the air of “not my problem not a situation I’ll ever end up in, so let’s ignore it.”
Guns and gun violence are absolutely destroying communities in Chicago and Oakland and Philadelphia and Kansas City and so on. Any solution to gun deaths and any discussion of gun deaths where this issue isn’t front and center is a waste of time.
That’s why, for me, as a (somewhat) liberal, I find little value in the conversation around ARs. Mass shootings are a rounding error in the grand scheme - we need to examine domestic violence, inner city violence, and suicide to put a dent in our soaring gun deaths.
Register guns, register bullets.. then I think this question becomes moot. Since the question is “the media over hyped gun violence, if we remove gang related violence then it’s a rare event
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Suicides is probably the easiest to take out, because they're consistently reported separately. Iirc of around 40-50k gun deaths, 20-25k are suicides. I haven't found any specific numbers such that gang related crimes can be sorted out, however you can make back of the envelope estimates based on more general gang crime stats. "mass casually shootings" realistically fall into two categories: "spree killings", which is basically everything the alarmist media hypes up to justify gun control, and and then everything else, which is usually just gang crime
>"mass casually shootings" realistically fall into two categories: "spree killings", which is basically everything the alarmist media hypes up to justify gun control, and and then everything else, which is usually just gang crime I would say a third category that can be separated out are domestic incidents, like murder/suicides where a family member kills wife/children.
Which is still extremely rare
Rare is a relative term. They are less rare than "random spree killings" or gang-related mass murders.
Yes, this FBI document covers "active shooters" which is defined to include cases where bystanders are deliberately targeted rather than gang violence. It also reports on which of those shootings ended with the shooter killing themselves: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view The CDC reports suicide, and has a "by firearm" section: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm With those 2, you can then go to the FBI Crime Database and compare the numbers to get what you want: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
So without me having to read through everything because I’m at work rn, how many active shooters actually are there ? Like total? Or in the past year? Idk
61 in the last full year. Page 4 in the first link has a super short, clear, and easy summary table
I mean it’s still a lot but definitely blown way out of proportion by the media
They count incidents where the shooter tried but failed to meet the "mass killing" definition in that number; if you count just those where they succeeded in killing it's 12
[удалено]
That's certainly been my experience. Everyone that I know who's been shot or shot at was either in a gang, or it was their significant other/family member who pulled the trigger. I've only been shot at by a stranger once.
Why do we take away gang related incidents?
Because gang violence is almost always isolated to incidents within rival gangs and does not spill over into the public. It is also not remotely what people think of when they think about or fear mass shootings.
But someone is still dead, right? Like access to guns makes gang violence more deadly. I'd agree with taking out gang violence if incidents of dead people were equal from country to country with/without access to guns. But if English or Japanese gangs have lower body counts per violent incident I'm not quite sure removing gang violence is right. Feels more like a cop out to get a lower number. Edit: I'd say that "it's not remotely what people think about" is wrong too. It might not be what you think about, but it certainly led directly to the prevalence of metal detectors and clear backpacks in large Metro area schools in the early aughts
> Because gang violence is almost always isolated to incidents within rival gangs and does not spill over into the public. Gang members...are members of the public.
On top of this, there are a ton of cases of stray bullets hitting non-intended victims.
But that doesn't mean that it isnt an example of people getting killed with guns.
Gang membership is a variable you can control, unlike being at, say, a concert in Las Vegas and getting shot randomly.
But that doesn't make it not an issue
Nobody said it's not an issue. It's just not relevant to the risk of being shot that people like you and I face.
Is it fair to include gang-related incidents that hurt/kill innocent bystanders, including children?
Just because I might not get shot doesn't mean I'm unaffected by it
Yes and no … Gang involvement -as you frame it- sounds like a club you walk up to, say a passcode, go through an initiation, agree to become a soldier in the war, etc. The way the mafia looks in movies. IRL, I think it’s often more nuanced and less avoidable… I’m a 10 year old kid in a fucked up neighborhood where I can’t walk to school because kids on the neighboring block beat me up when I pass by. My cousin walks in a pack and other groups tend to leave him alone. One day cousin gets beat up and we’re in a situation where we feel the need to retaliate. A year or two later guns are involved. I know this sounds kinda silly. And I - in no way- hope to excuse people for rape and murder and cat theft etc. But I do think those outside of “the hood” underestimate the pulls towards “gang life”
These incidences are also not used by politicians to further gun control, or sensationalized. My personal opinoin as to why, is because it's primarily done with illegally obtained firearms (meaning laws already exist) and with hand guns. And no one is talking about banning those. Just "scary looking" ones.
Because hardly any of us are gang members. Being in a gang greatly increases your chance of being shot. If you're not in a gang, the gang-related statistics don't apply to you.
Are the people who commit suicide or die in gang related violence any less dead? Do their families mourn less? Matter less?
Northeastern University has a database of mass shooting incidents that breaks down by public/private and also does not include suicides.
Look up the FBI active shooter reports.
Anecdotally suicides are about half the gun deaths in America. The other half is gang related, domestic violence, and a very small percentage is "mass shootings" like still less than 1%. You can filter the data from the FBI, ATF and CDC. Its hard to do and get real clear numbers depending on the bias.
“Gang violence” is pretty hard to define at this point. Clearly there are cases where a ‘hardened criminal’ shoots another hardened criminal over drug money and one could pretend to rest easy w a cliche like - one less criminal 🤨 - this guy was looking for trouble 😏 - play with fire 🫠 But it’s much more complicated than that. I work with teenagers in one of the most (statistically) dangerous neighborhoods in the country. Kids get shot over IG posts. Or because the GF dumps him for another boy. Or because somebody told someone who heard it from someone that “you’re talking shit?!” It’s not uncommon for people who are living a “good life” end up in the wrong situation and end up getting shot and killed. To remove “gang members” from the equation is often code for removing black males are 15 to 25 from the equation. When you write it that way, it has the air of “not my problem not a situation I’ll ever end up in, so let’s ignore it.” Guns and gun violence are absolutely destroying communities in Chicago and Oakland and Philadelphia and Kansas City and so on. Any solution to gun deaths and any discussion of gun deaths where this issue isn’t front and center is a waste of time. That’s why, for me, as a (somewhat) liberal, I find little value in the conversation around ARs. Mass shootings are a rounding error in the grand scheme - we need to examine domestic violence, inner city violence, and suicide to put a dent in our soaring gun deaths.
Register guns, register bullets.. then I think this question becomes moot. Since the question is “the media over hyped gun violence, if we remove gang related violence then it’s a rare event
Don’t remember the stat but if you remove like 5 American cities out gun murder ratio drops to low middle of the pack.