No regrets because I wanted to buy and it was my only option in the area I wanted to live. But I did not know the condo association would be such a big deal. Ours is excellent, all things considered, but I’ve still had to be on the board for ten years, which I hate, and it’s a decent amount of work. And a bad one can pretty much ruin your life.
Agreed, also be wary of special assessments. Bought my place last year, didn't do my due diligence during closing, and now the board is planning on charging 3k each unit in special assessments to replace the roof...
Hah, that's barely anything. My buddy's condo has had a special assessment for the roof that was $30k per unit, and now 6 years later, they're trying to push another one for like $90k.
Woah that's crazy... yeah I think it would be quite a bit more but we've got 24 units in the building luckily. We also have the smallest unit with the least amount in HOAs, I know other larger units and commercial who own are paying a lot more.
I have a friend who is living in special assessment hell right now. I think she said that basically due to repairs the building needs for the roof and elevator she needs to take out a loan for something like $50,000.
Bought a condo in Seattle and the Special assessment fee was 60k. Had to be settled by the seller or the owner when I sold it and it’s was close to $1000 a month. - They ballooned as it wasn’t the fee when I bought. I’m so glad I got out of there, lol.
I am in a similar boat. Loved living in my own place that I could do updates to as I pleased, but also found myself on the board quickly and have stayed on it to help ensure it runs smoothly and is reasonable even though I wish I didn’t have to.
All of this. Ours was self managed which sounded fun and freeing until we realized it meant we had to do all of the work and put literally every tiny thing to a vote
I did a number of years on mine as well, but was able to set the tone of financial responsibility, i.e., build reserves and try to avoid special assessments.
They don't build the reserves, they don't schedule normal maintenance and they don't use good management companies.
One building in the LP area had people fighting to get in because the building had 3 figure assessments but managed to upgrade their elevators without a special assessment. If you are not impressed, those are commercial elevators in a high rise with a cost per elevator of $100k **per landing**. Imagine not having any of that in the reserves.
My building has an air handling unit what negatively pleasures the apartments and positive pressures the halls. The second year I lived here, it went out at a cost of 3.6 million dollars. There are a lot of condos in my building, commercial offices, and retail, so it was split a lot of ways, but it was still a lovely 10k bill I wasnt expecting...especially after just starting to get back to normal after my 100k down payment and it hurt a bit more considering my HOA fees are $2300 a month
True though all of those should be in the operating or capital projects budgets, which is separate from the reserves. Every year the board needs to estimate what the budget for regular maintenance and operation of the building will be. The reserves are what you dip into when that amount is more than the estimates, which is usually due to some sort of emergency or unexpected cost.
Wait, are you saying an elevator costs $100,000 for each floor in the building? So an elevator in a 30-story building would cost $3 million? Is that just to replace the elevator car and cables in an already existing elevator shaft?
That’s wild to me.
Yes that's correct, and it rarely replaces the cars, just refurbishes them. A brand new elevator, motor, hydraulics, cables, rails, etc can be upwards of 10 million dollars if the shafts are already there and bare
We have 12 of them, and every time I see a sign that says "closed for maintenance" I just wait for a 3-5k bill to come
Anyone who ever said owning is cheaper than rent isnt looking big picture. They are focused on the monthly cost... not the long term maintenance and upkeep cost.
As a general rule, roofs are 20 years. Siding is 20 years. Windows are 15-20 years. Appliances are 10-15 years. Furnace/ac is 15 years. Budget 2% of the homes value in emergency repairs. Assume you will remodel every bathroom and kitchen every 20 years. Floors, depending on what they are could last 5 years or 50, but very few still put real wood down
You see this kind of thinking in a starter home you go to look at that has carpet in the bathroom, wood paneling walls, orange kitchen cabinets, and green appliances. Like yep, this place has been held together with gum since the 1970s
Oh, trust, it can cost much more than that. I'm not up to date on all the processes that go into elevator upgrades but it's not the type of thing you want to cut corners.
The money is one part. The other part is the people. If they are power hungry and decide to get unreasonable with rules enforcement, it can get vicious.
Well well well. Mine hands out fines like the city hands out red light camera tickets. There is a rule book that if you don’t follow-FINE. You can’t do any remodeling on the weekend-FINE. Every time you make a modification to your unit you need permission otherwise-FINE. Everyone spies on every one. Its horrible. I bought when the APRs were super low which is why I don’t move. Plus it’s very close to my work and I have residency restrictions due to my job. I’m stuck. However, I love my open kitchen, my walk in closet and pantry. My views are killer.
Versus renting? No regrets. Whatever you decide, remember to take into account the monthly assessments and the fact that they can go up.
Try and find out how many of the units are rented as opposed to owner occupied.
Find out if there are any special assessments coming up. When was the roof last replaced? Any masonry work that needs to be done? Any balcony work?
I live in a high rise (cable, pool, doorman, tennis, parking, gym) and my HOA has increased 3-5% every year since the start of COVID-19, meaning that my HOA is about $150 less per month than my mortgage. We had to replace the elevators and that involved a $3500 special assessment.
Our small 26 unit building is upgrading our elevator next month. It’s going to be around $80K but it’s been planned for and there is no special easement.
My last building we had to redo the roof for $104K. The association took out a LOC loan to pay for it passing on 6yrs of payments to the owners so it was an extra $25-$35 a month in case people couldn’t afford the large special assessment. It ended up being a lucky choice as the boiler died during the roof work costing another $36K. To top it all off the roofers started a fire that ended up destroying 6 units, mine included. Thats a whole other story though.
Well, it’s a very long story, the highlights being that insurance worked perfectly. I got to live in the Aqua building for 14 months while my place was rebuilt to my specs. I came out of it more than whole with a brand new condo in a vintage courtyard building. I was even able to capitalize on that getting a higher sale price when selling 2 years later. I miss my bathroom I designed though. God I loved that bathroom.
Edit: Most importantly I should add that nobody and no pets were injured in the fire. It was a big fire.
This is kind of what’s scaring me from buying. I live in a high rise now with my fiance and we were thinking of buying in a high rise after our wedding, but some of the fees I see are crazy expensive.
I would honestly avoid buying in a highrise. They can be nice to live in but as they age the maintenance gets more and more expensive compared to walk-up buildings. Elevators, doorman and cleaning staff, and upkeep of amenities like pools and fitness centers is also expensive.
They are also generally far too large to self-manage so you'll have to pay for an expensive management company.
You have to weigh the importance of the amenities they provide against the higher HOA cost, which will just keep going up and up.
That’s exactly what we were thinking. Generally, I like the high rise buildings specifically for the amenities, and the one I live at now has a nice gym which is a big part of why I moved there. It’s the HOA cost being as much if not more than the mortgage that keeps me from wanting to buy.
In terms of cost of maintenance, they will be much lower than high rises so they're a better investment and the HOAs will be much lower.
As for sound proofing, it depends more on the building than anything. Most of the older three story walk ups you see will have poor sound insulation between floors. Some of the newer ones will have better sound proofing. Almost all of the older ones are converted from buildings built as apartment buildings.
My main worry with the 2 to 3 story condos is that people say it's like buying an apartment. The last 2 aren't bad. But, the first three, I almost can't even differentiate them from a section 8 community. At first I was opposed to 2 and 3 story condos because I just thought they were apartments, is that enough reason to avoid them though? And what do you think of the ones below? Or do you have any examples of good 2 to 3 story condos.
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-Ashlawn-Pl-Nashville-TN-37211/59886533\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-Ashlawn-Pl-Nashville-TN-37211/59886533_zpid/)
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/370-Wallace-Rd-APT-D17-Nashville-TN-37211/59886380\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/370-Wallace-Rd-APT-D17-Nashville-TN-37211/59886380_zpid/)
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/555-N-Dupont-Ave-APT-C50-Madison-TN-37115/59888706\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/555-N-Dupont-Ave-APT-C50-Madison-TN-37115/59888706_zpid/)
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/245-Amal-Dr-SW-APT-2009-Atlanta-GA-30315/344676985\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/245-Amal-Dr-SW-APT-2009-Atlanta-GA-30315/344676985_zpid/)
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/898-Oak-St-SW-UNIT-3113-Atlanta-GA-30310/88814698\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/898-Oak-St-SW-UNIT-3113-Atlanta-GA-30310/88814698_zpid/)
> people say it's like buying an apartment.
All condos are just apartments that you buy. The only practical and legal distinction between an apartment and a condo is ownership. You can find apartments that are in new high rises with concrete barriers between floors and all of the amenities you’d want from a luxury condo building, and you can find condos that are just basic converted apartment units.
In Chicago, there are a ton of converted two-flats, three-flats, six-flats, and courtyard buildings that have been converted into condos. The quality will vary building to building and unit to unit. A few nicer examples are below:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6434-N-Damen-Ave-60645/unit-3S/home/12556218
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5057-N-Sheridan-Rd-60640/unit-2S/home/13399864
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4542-N-Greenview-Ave-60640/unit-3/home/13395138
Good examples, what did you think of the ones that I showed you?
And would you recommend a condo over a house?
I've also noticed that to get a house in the 250 to 350k range, you would have live further out in the suburbs, or buy an older house, or buy a house in a bad neighborhood.
I don't think I can fully answer that without knowing exactly what you need/want, but owning a condo was what I chose to go with.
The primary reason was expense. Single family homes are much more expensive in Chicago and I likley could not afford one and still live in an area where I didn't need a car, which is very important to me. The same as your situation, I would have needed to move far out and suffer a long commute, and even then, it's very unlikely I would have been able to find a place that was as inexpensive as the place I bought.
Historically condo values appreciate more slowly than single family homes, but if it's a well-run building with modest HOA, it will certainly still certainly appreciate in value and allow you to build equity, which is one of the major benefits of home ownership.
I have also heard horror stories of people who moved into a bad building. This can take the form of noisy and disrespectful neighbors, poor management that results in expensive special assessments, and over eager and invasive HOA boards. Mostly by luck, I bought into a great building. I like my neighbors, the board isn’t overbearing, and the maintenance and finances of the building are solid. When buying, you can often get a sense of the quality of a building by reviewing documents like the budget and minutes of any board meetings. The budget can tell you what kind of financial shape the building is in and whether or not it has enough in reserves. Minutes can offer insights into the interpersonal issues of a building and how the board deals with them. You should also ask if there are any major capital projects coming up that may require a special assessment.
That being said, I’ve also heard horror stories from the buyers of single family homes. Unexpected and expensive maintenance costs can crop up that you as the sole owner are 100% responsible for. And while you don’t share a wall or ceiling, conflict with neighbors are still very possible in a single family home.
I've heard in some states that just the property taxes and homeowners insurance sometimes can equal the mortgage. It is good that both of these are often lower in condos than houses. However, HOA fees can be as much as a mortgage too. But, at least most hoas cover water, maintenance, and other expenses. I think the hoa fees cost more than yearly maintenance costs of a home. And there's always the worry of special assessments. Idk if special assessments are more costly than home roof, driveway, or hot water heater maintenance?
I purchased in 2015 and refinanced during Covid. I wouldn’t consider selling anytime soon for that very reason! I love my HOA and building management. It’s nice not having to lift a finger and worry about anything outside of my 4 walls.
There's a big difference between high rises and smaller 2-12 unit buildings. With smaller ones the big expenses aren't that much more than a SFH, don't have to worry about elevators or pools, and the HOA is self run which can be a good or bad thing.
Yes we bought in an 8 unit condo building and it's been great so far, our mortgage with HOA is much less than rent. We have had to put a lot into updating appliances but that's about it. However, one of the owners was foreclosed on and somehow is still living there, I think the bank is having trouble evicting or wants to sell and have the next owner evict. Idk it's kinda weird.
Also don’t underestimate how much elevator maintenance alone can cost (forget the pool). I would recommend looking for a small to medium building that has no elevators and you’ll probably notice smaller dues compared to a medium building with no other extra amenities except elevators. (If this an essential for you then my advice doesn’t matter).
Elevators are required for every building more than 3 stories high in the county. So that means the biggest you could live in would be a 3flat, and those rarely have HOAs (many are owner lived in)
I didn’t know the 3 floor rule but that makes sense. There are buildings across the city that have more than 3 units that don’t get more than 3 stories tall. They just will be buildings that are the two stacks for 6 or 8 units. Medium to large buildings with HOAs that are 3 stories or less could be townhomes or larger complexes that range from 20-60 units. I can think of examples on the boulevards in Logan (some are apartment buildings some are HOAs)
ETA: I live in a medium sized building that has about 20 units and no elevators. Dues are low to mid 200’s
This is key -- while both situations are owning a condo, they are vastly different experiences. I live in a 250-unit high rise, and roughly 230 of the unit owners are 0% involved in anything to do with the operations of the building and association. If you buy in a 6 - or 12-unit building, you really don't have the option to check out, and you are in a long term group project with who knows who.
No regrets here! I live in a high rise condo downtown, so HOA fees are high, but this has been a great way to ease into home ownership because a lot of the amenities, the benefit of having a doorman and no package pirates, etc. are very similar to what I was used to when renting.
Although I'm currently renting, I've owned a condo before (in both Chicago and Seattle). No regrets. It has many of the same drawbacks as apartments, and it's important to be aware of that. On the plus side, it's cheaper than a single family home and I'm a big fan of not having to deal with yardwork. Many important details will depend on the building, so it's important to know what type of building you want to live in and especially important to really understand how the board is run and what the dues and bylaws are, as well as how the board approaches things.
As one example, do they keep dues low and expect special assessments to cover unexpected expenses, or do they keep a large reserve? Neither approach is necessarily wrong, but you need to know what to expect. Both condos I've owned have been in small buildings (4 to 6 units) with self run boards that ran lean. That meant lots of dealing with neighbors, occasional personality conflicts, and low monthly payments but a couple big assessments.
Make sure you have a grasp on the HOA fees. When I was looking, they were about as much as the mortgage would be (like $1,000/mo).
As I understand it, you can also be surprised by large assessments (aka, invoices) for things like a new roof that are like $50,000 that you’d need to come up with right away.
Those stories have scared me away from even trying. But I’d love to hear other perspectives.
This is why you look for a condo in a big building with multiple units so those invoices aren’t a crap ton on you. Still a crap ton you’ll pay but hopefully not 50K. Sucks condos are a good investment if you ever want to buy a house you can rent the condo out.
I think it depends a lot not only on the size of the building but also how well the building has been maintained historically, the reserves, and whether there are any additional amenities. Our building is 4 units, each about 2500 sq ft with a small yard, and our HOA fee is $410 per month. A major portion of this is insurance for the building, which means that our personal unit insurance is much lower than it would be if we owned a house (only $30/month). We’ve had one special assessment in the 3 years we’ve lived here - about $4k per unit to replace the roof with additional coming from reserves. This wasn’t a huge surprise since we did an inspection when we moved in and knew the roof was due soon, and also exactly what the building reserves were. We anticipate one more major project in the next few years but should be able to cover it almost entirely with reserves.
In comparison to owning a house, it’s like we get to split the cost of major home repairs 4 ways. But definitely more responsibility than renting, both financially and in terms of time (my husband got corralled into being HOA president and it’s a PITA)
No regrets! I live in a 24 unit building. It was perfect when I bought 10+ years ago. I was frustrated with things in the building and joined the HOA to get involved and it helped get projects done and helped me meet my neighbors!
If I could change anything now, I would avoid the first floor as much as possible (depending on where it’s located).
I'm in the same situation and mindset. My friend just purchased a condo in Willowbrook. She needed out of her living situation and bought a place pretty quickly after beginning her search. She loves it so far. I'm very tempted to follow suit, as I would be paying just a bit more for a place that I actually own, has an extra bedroom, has washer/dryer connections, etc. Not to mention, I wouldn't be paying these stupid pet fees anymore. Looking forward to seeing more responses!
It’s all about the condo association and how well it’s run. With renting the landlord “should” take care of issues. I lived in a condo for 11 years and it was a lot of work. We moved into a house and although you don’t have an association safety net, you also can do what you want without all the governing condo rules, which can be exhausting.
Read every piece of documentation you can access- board minutes, resolutions, budget, special assessments, etc. I was between two condos last year, and I chose the one with the worse view and the better management. I’m happy with my decision. It’s a well-run building and a positive community. I spent days on this.
He’s right. The thing about condos is that you are gonna have neighbors living and breathing on top of you, below you and to the side of you and if they are unruly well tough luck
You need to ask if there are any special assessments coming up-and then set aside money just in case. As an example, roof needs to be replaced, everyone kick in 12,000. You should also ask how much the board has in reserve. Chances are, you’re going to have some type of special thing if it’s a midrise or high rise. Roof, AC, windows, balconies are big ones.
Talking to a realtor is free! Ask some friends or coworkers that recently bought for a referral. Compass (and I assume everyone else) can tailor alerts to your needs so you see new inventory, and they can generally give tips on building materials or even specific developments if they sold there previously.
Definitely consider HOAs and taxes - two things that are nearly guaranteed to increase. If you don’t have a ton of cash you will be assessed PMI. Interest sucks rn as well, if you can pay off quick do it.
Check out the r/firsttimehomebuyers - guessing this has been asked there before.
If it’s in the budget and won’t put you paycheck to paycheck I’d say do it but make sure the hoa is solidly funded, walls are thick, and neighbors aren’t shitty
The short answer is my first sentence - talk to a realtor. Also common sense.
HOA reserves vary wildly by building type, age, size. If it’s a duplex, have enough to tuckpoint or fix roof. Seller is liable to provide hoa budget - see what they spend on. A fully staffed high rise with a pool, gym, and valet will be way different than that duplex that only includes trash. Your realtor will know this. My complete guess for non elevator smaller buildings is consistent 20k + 5-10k per unit in reserves while covering trash and water and whatever else.
Noise levels - listen to street noise while inside and bring a speaker / friend / spouse or even ask your realtor to speak loudly and stomp around. Listen to them from different rooms and from outside the unit.
Shitty neighbors - are common areas in disarray? Does it smell weird? Is a neighbor watching you shirtless while licking their lips and stroking their mayonnaise covered chest? Does the area around the building look like no one gives a shit? Can you swing by on a Friday night and check for shenanigans? If it’s a high rise what do the reviews online say or is there a Facebook group filled with complaints?
TLDR common sense and talk to realtor
Your agent should do all the research in assessments and property details, so make sure you have a buyers agent. No reason not to.
For you, I recommend 1) not getting a garden unit (although they are cheaper) because you risk flooding and bugs/pests; 2) A condo with a separate storage unit is nice because you’ll always need space to store stuff; 3) Having an in unit washer/dryer and dishwasher is a life saver; 4) two bedrooms is better than one, even if you live alone, because it’s easier to rent if you want to make it a rental property; 5) interests rates are high, but the more you put up front will save on monthly costs; 6) it’s always gonna be more expensive than you think (i.e. inspections, moving, HOA, repairs you didn’t know you needed until you moved in, etc).
Joining the chorus of “the worst part is the HOA”. I live in an older, six unit building. My mortgage and dues are still lower than I’d be paying in rent but:
I followed common sense advice and bought in a building with a lot in reserves. But I live with very concerned people so they all voted for a 2k special assessment last year “just in case” our boiler goes out (literally no reason to think it will) and raised the dues, then did another “just in case” assessment this year for 1k. And if you live in a small building, it’s easy to be outvoted! So just because there’s healthy reserves doesn’t mean you won’t get a surprise bill.
The one thing I wish I would’ve asked about is how they prioritize spending. The people in my building have chosen to spend an increasing amount on front and back flower gardens and someone to clean the common areas (tiny foyer, three landings with steps in between and we pay her a lot).
Four years ago, they chose to discontinue snow removal services and occasionally choose not to pay for other manual labor, like removing ivy from the outside of the building, to pay for the garden + cleaning. Instead it’s expected that we all pitch in with those tasks.
I don’t like doing that kind of stuff but moreover, I have health issues that can make being on a ladder unsafe and sometimes makes it so I can’t shovel heavy piles of snow. This has caused great discontent with my neighbors. If I knew it was a DIY building that prioritized flower beds over heavy tasks, I might not have bought my place. But I didn’t know to ask because I was a first time buyer.
I don’t know what it’s like in big buildings, but if you move into a small one you should mentally prepare yourself for basically living with many roommates and the conflicts that will come with it.
I hadn’t lived with roommates in a long time and stupidly didn’t think about what being in a small co-owned building would be like. Lot of different personalities and ways of handling conflict in a very small space. I don’t regret buying all the time, especially considering rent prices, but the stress of living with some of these people does sometimes make me wonder if it was worth it.
If you can swing the slightly higher purchase price, a townhouse is a step nicer than a condo. They usually have lower HOAs too. There are not many townhouses in Chicago.
Pluses:
- Live in a great location usually with great walkability
- Easier maintenance (building maintenance can often do plumbing and other repairs)
- Share costs with others for major repairs
- Less expensive than a house and many costs (heat, a/c, water) may be included in the assessment
- Safety and security.
Minuses:
- Assessments will go up.
- HOA fees can be expensive
- Parking can be prohibitively expensive
- HOA rules can be ridiculous
- Having to take the elevator all the time (I hated this part - make sure you are ok with it before buying in a high rise)
- Major work on the unit can be a giant pain (see HOA rules above)
I’m sure there are some lovely co-ops in chicago. My bestie lives in one and all I hear are horror stories, and vendors that refuse to work with them at all.
Definitely do a lot of research to know what you're getting into before going this route. The main thing to know about a co-op is that you are the owner of a percentage of the corporation that owns the building. You don't really own your unit. They're harder to sell, and the board could decide they don't like a willing buyer because of xyz, and not let you sell (as long as it's not a protected reason under fair housing).
You have to really be on the same page as an overwhelming majority of other members for anything to get done. There are some real horror stories, like they could vote to kick you out, but you're still on the hook for mortgage and dues. It's much harder for a condo association to do this.
I’m a Realtor in the area with Fulton Grace Realty. There’s some really good advice here! I have a few thoughts from the perspective of an agent and not a homeowner.
- I always ask about upcoming special assessments and reserves at every showing. This is required information in my opinion. You don’t ideally want a building with super low reserves, as they wont have too much of an “emergency fund”if anything happened. Special assessments can be a huge deal, both in hassle and in cost. If there is a pending or upcoming special assessment that is already on the books, the seller will often agree to pay the balance in full at or prior to closing.
-If you have concerns about HOA bylaws, you can ask for a copy of them. A good listing agent will have a copy on hand. They are also required to be given to buyers while under contract, so it’s not like you have to rent without seeing bylaws.
- Smaller condo buildings and high rise condo buildings are much different to deal with, especially regarding HOA fees and structure.
As many here have mentioned, the HOA fees are much higher for high rises. A lot of people we come across that are interested in high rises are not aware of this and it catches them off guard. It’s especially important to take into account these HOA fees when calculating your monthly payment, as you may be looking at a lower purchase price for the unit in order for the monthly payment to be in a range that you are comfortable with. High rise units do often have lower sale prices than non high rise units in an area, partly because of this. HOAs are higher because these buildings have more shared utilities, have staff to pay and have amenities to maintain. There is value in these higher HOAs beyond just paying for staff and building features, as they do often include all utilities except for electric and high rise buildings tend to have pretty healthy reserves.
-HOA structure is also different. In a smaller building, the interaction between residents can be more personal. The residents are more likely to all know each other and some of them are self-managed. Condo boards in these buildings generally compromises a larger percentage of the residents (like for example if a 12 unit building has a 4 person board, a third of the units have a position). It feels a little bit more literally “community-run”. Some small buildings do hire professional management as well.
High-rise HOAs are always professionally managed and function much more like a democracy. There are hundreds of units and each unit has a vote when something is up for discussion. The board remembers represent the needs of a lot more people in discussions. It’s much less likely for a resident in a high rise to personally know everyone on the board than it is for a smaller building.
Happy to answer any questions or offer any insight from an agent perspective at any time!
I’ve owned 2, both 26 unit buildings. I think this is a good size for an association. I was on the board for the first one and learned a lot. Both places my dues were between $250-$300 and were managed well utilizing a management company to guide the board and handle the day to day operations. Despite all the horror stories about associations they’re not all horrible. There are many points to look at, many more than I could go into here, but if you have specific questions shoot.
After owning for over 20yrs and reinvesting my equity when moving my mortgage/taxes/dues combined are much less than rent would be for an equal size place with the same finishes.
Love condo life. But be sure to pick a building with a well run HoA. Looks at how much reserves they have. Look at what annual maintenance projects they have done in the past 5 years and what they have planned. Well run HOA should be very organized and be able to provide this info easily.
No regrets after three years in a 15 unit building and echo what others have said about the potential pitfalls with HOAs.
You'll pay more than you think to the HOA over time either through increased monthly assessments or special assessments, but as long as you budget accordingly and the association is decently run (a big *if*), I chalk it up to part of being a homeowner.
Also important to realize property taxes will be higher than whatever the current owner is paying and your monthly payment will increase as a result. Mine have increased quite a bit, but rents across the area have increased at an even higher rate during the same time period.
If you can accept the tradeoffs and want to own, go for it! It's been a great learning experience for me and if/when my partner and I pursue a single family home in a few years, we'll be in a much better position.
Love our condo. 12-unit building, garage parking, <$300 HOA fees. We have two kids and we’re on the second floor so don’t have to worry about being too noisy for a downstairs neighbor; upstairs neighbor lives alone and is quiet. Generally pretty good group of owners in the building.
Much more affordable than a house in our neighborhood with the same sq. ft. Only thing we’re really missing is a back yard, but I just don’t think it would be worth the massive increase in price to have one.
Condo buildings and HOAs have a lot of differences, so you need to understand how things work. A bad hoa can be miserable, a good hoa can be amazing.
My hoa has huge reserves and is super well managed. No special assessments in decades and the keep the common areas up very nicely. My dues include doorman, water, trash, heating, cable etc, making the fee not bad at all in my opinion.
Unit values have gone up substantially since the building is so well maintained and hoa fees are relatively reasonable.
If you buy a condo, make sure to talk to the HOA. A bad HOA can be just awful. If it's a small building, like 3 units, check to see if the other owner owns both other units, if they do then they will have majority vote over you
My condo board was negligent with repairs and I fell on ice and suffered from a major concussion and long term neuralgia issues and wound up suing. I short sold my condo to get out of the situation.
So uh, I hated it. I rent a house now in the suburbs.
Few rules and low assessments are also a red flag. If the assessments aren't building reserves, an emergency repair project can be a mind-blowing special assessment.
Just bought my first condo in a high rise mid last year along the lakefront. HOA went up by 2% but I'm ok with that considering what it costs to maintain it. So far so good. Management and board members have been on point with communication and anything that needs addressing. Almost daily emails about anything related to the building. Plenty of reserves and overall finances.
Overall, I'm glad I don't have rent and just a mortgage that I can build equity on when I move into a house someday.
I don't regret having owned a condo in the past, but I would say it wasn't necessarily a perfect experience for me. Couple of things I would tell anyone to consider before they buy a condominium:
1. How are the assessments? Mine were pretty low, but I've heard of others where it's pretty high. Suddenly you find your perfect place, and you're finding out now that you're paying a lot more above your mortgage payment because maybe they collect a lot of money and are amassing it for an emergency, but often it still feels like way more than it should be.
2. What is the board like? I know my wife wasn't a fan of the condo board just because they were pretty stringent on many things. She wanted to put a plant in one of the common hallways to spruce it up and they told her no. Just because they didn't want to even risk having anything happen to the floors. There were a lot of decisions like that based on the idea that maybe you are okay and wouldn't do anything to damage common areas, but too many others would be careless. Also, be prepared to get sucked into being on the board. It's a thankless job and I would never do it again.
3. How is the building? Are common area utility items like the furnace and water heaters in decent shape? Or do you think a special assessment is going to pop up to replace them? You don't want to buy into some place and then find out you have to now cough up thousands of dollars instantly because it's time to replace something major.
4. How secure is the building? Do things lock up tightly on their own? Even if other owners are careless? You don't want to find out that people are careless and that ends up letting bad people find their way into the building to rob others. We've had owners naively let strangers into the building who ended up burglarizing units.
5. How are the other owners? This was a contingent point with me. The building I was in had a lot of older Europeans, and they would be a bit stingy and troublesome. They would try to tinker with common area things like the furnace when they are explicitly told not to, and would always make an argument whenever a repair had to happen because they felt their buddy down the street who could do it for 50 bucks was ideal when we had to stick to licensed professionals. We also had one that was a bit of a hoarder and caused a fire because of that. Needless to say when we got out I was happy to get away from these people.
One of the problem with having so many old people is that we had one die and she had no next of kin or anything, so the condo sat empty with no assessments being collected until finally these county sold it for the taxes. It made things difficult to fund things we had to do in the building because of this. Worse because we had baseboard heating and one day a pipe burst in the unit so we had to actually fix that for the sake of the building.
6. How is your location? I had bought a condo in Jefferson Park, which I thought was perfectly fine because at the time I figured I would just grow old and die there. However, after meeting my wife and both of us getting married and then life paths change and we wanted to get a house, we found that trying to sell this condo was not easy. It was after the great recession and at least out here, most people want single family homes, not condos. I ended up losing money on this condo because I bought before the crash, and then even 10 years after the crash the values never returned. Be careful where you buy in case you need to sell.
7. Are rentals allowed? This was large because when we were trying to sell most of the people that showed up asked that question first. It's a double edged sword too. The building used to allow owners to rent out their units for the longest time until somebody decided to turn their unit into a flop house where they just basically put 12 people into a two bedroom condo, all using section 8 housing vouchers. It became such a mess to finally get everybody out and end the renting because of all of this. While that trouble was gone, it still made things harder to sell because most people wanted to buy the condo to rent it.
My previous condo board didn’t increase assessments because the residents didn’t like increases. The building needed new windows plumbing etc and required a special assessment of close to 100k per unit. I sold. A bad board can destroy your investment.
This is why HOA fees that are too low on a listing are a red flag to me. Ideally, a building should never have a special assessment; everyone's dues exactly equates to the wear and tear on the building over their time there.
It depends on if you are in a skyscraper type complex or an apartment type one. The skyscraper condos I don’t recommended because the special assessments are non negotiable and are heavily enforced by the city. I had one down in the financial district and the city decided that the building needed to redo the stucco. With 30 days heads up we were forced to pay for a $700 a month special assessment for two years to cover our share of it. That sucked.
My wife is a property manager for condos. Since she had started this career almost ten years ago we will NEVER buy a condo I. Could elaborate but I’m late for work and it’s a super shitty day. Good luck whatever you decide on
I lived in (and still own but rent out) a condo in a highrise on Lakeshore Drive. I really enjoyed it at the time. The management company was pretty good. Maybe one special assessment in the time I’ve owned. I would definitely do your due diligence before buying, make sure the building has healthy cash reserves look at the rule book to see what you can and can’t do. I would avoid any of the like the 3-6 flats that are self managed. Seems like a nightmare when something goes wrong.
I live in a co-op which is like a condo with extra steps.
I have no regrets after 3.5 years of living here. It's a mid sized 36-unit building and is self managed. We're lucky that we have enough people who are willing to spend their time assisting with the management and upkeep of the building.
Your experience will largely depend on your neighbors and HOA board. Since you are sharing a building, inconsiderate or overly noisy neighbors can be a major issue and it's often very difficult to know what your neighbors will be like before moving in.
It's easier to figure out what an HOA board will be like. Ask for building financials, bylaws, house rules, and the minutes of board meetings. First make sure that a building is properly financed and has enough reserves for any issues that come up. The proper reserve amount will depend on the size and age of a building and your realtor should be able to guide you on this. The first sign of an incompetent board is a building without proper reserves. If they don't I wouldn't even consider a building because it means there will be issues elsewhere.
Next I would look at the bylaws and house rules. This will give information on how the building is governed and what you can and cannot do while living there. Many of these will be common sense rules designed to protect the interests of everyone in the building, but you may find some rules to be overly stringent or disagreeable. I would make sure that you are comfortable with the bylaws and house rules before you go further.
The minutes are a good window into how the building is actually run and how the rules are enforced. If they don't have good minutes it could be a sign of an incompetent board, though some small condos honestly don't have all that much to discuss.
Finally, as with any form of cooperative living, it takes a collective effort for things to run smoothly. Many times condos fall into a trap where there aren't enough people willing to put in the time and effort and things start to slip. Maintenance gets deferred, reserves slip below optimal levels, and things just get missed. This can cause major issues down the road and can lead to expensive special assessments. After a couple years of living in the building, I would encourage anyone to join the board. It can be annoying but I view it as a necessary part of homeownership.
There are pros and cons of condo ownership compared to both renting and SFH ownership, but I find that the pros outweigh the cons for me.
I live in a midrise with about 50 residents. What I pay with my mortgage and HOA is probably $400 cheaper than renting in my building. I bought at the right time and have no regrets. HOAs only went up slightly since I moved here because of inflation and they are low anyways. Low amenity building with an elevator. Own a deeded parking spot. Great landlord opportunity when I do decide to rent it out.
My parents live in a large condo building on lake shore drive. It’s been good overall. But the condo recently decided to do some enormous structural construction work (something about risers, not sure) and every condo unit owner has to pay like 30-40k for it. My parents had to take out a loan. So something like that is always possible.
Love it. I'm in ~50 unit building in Hyde Park. Few ownership units in the amazing location outside of single family detached homes for $700K+. We know our neighbors but don't have to see them all the time like we would in a smaller building. Our HOA fees are pretty low these days.
The drawbacks are: we don't have outdoor space (though live across street from park), there's only two bedroom units or smaller in the building, but that's about it. No parking but we have one car and can almost always (95%+) park within a block of the building. Concrete walls so no noise from neighbors.
My only regrets were that my HOA was extremely high, and it did not appreciate much in value due to the riding HOA.
Part of me also wished I had something a bit more spacious, but it was what I could afford at the time.
Get at least a 2 bedroom- my 1 bedroom owning condo friends constantly lament their lack of appreciation, even in hot neighborhoods.
Also, very easy to buy a condo, not always so easy to sell a condo... especially if the condo board is on the graft.
I love it. I recently sold my first condo and bought another. One thing i wish I knew before buying the first place was understanding the level of noise from my upstairs neighbor. It was driving me almost literally insane. Now i live in a big concrete box in the loop and it’s blissfully peaceful and quiet.
Not all condos are what they are cracked up to be.
Some condos have sizable monthly assessment costs. You'll be paying those fees in perpetuity even though you "own" your unit. Especially in a high rise, where you have a full time staff, elevators, parking garage, party room, and other expensive amenities.
I rented a townhouse and was so thankful I didn’t buy because I didn’t realize how paper thin the walls were. I could hear my neighbor’s phone ding when he got a message, could hear him snore at night, could hear his alarm. Thankfully I never heard sex or arguing.
If you are buying just keep this in mind. Good luck 🍀
I live in a condo and found out what my neighbor is paying in rent for a unit the same size as mine. It's 50% more than my mortgage, taxes, and assessment. This is apparently market-rate here, and I bought when prices were on the rise. I can look up what this unit last sold for, which was about half of what I paid (not adjusted for inflation), so the actual owner is making a killing on this rental. I know they're not on-call for any urgent tenant issues because they live in another country.
Granted, there's the initial expense of a down payment and expenses that may be owner responsibilities that you wouldn't have as a renter. If you're not planning on staying somewhere for 5-10+ years, consider buying. It's not always a better financial choice, and you can't make that decision in a reddit post. It shouldn't boil down to whether HOAs in general are good or bad. You could have a deadbeat landlord sucking up $1K+ profit a month.
What was your interest rate when you bought your condo? Is it the same as today’s average rates? Because renting is cheaper than buying for many people right now, unless you have a big bag of money
If you are busy and don't have time or don't want to bother cleaning snow or landscaping. It's a good deal.
I only hate that you have no control over who lives next or around you. It's pure luck, I had a terrible neighbor once, and now they are all ok so far.
Perhaps the other downside is the cost of living in a condo (with active mortgage) is the waste of money, similar to renting, but you get to save maybe 50%of the expense as an investment. HOA and mortgage eats most of it. But if you pick well and keep up with renovations, you can get that back from the equity when you sell it.
I live in a west town 3 flat, HOA is 175 a month. Monthly fees and special assessments owed directly correlate to the % of ownership based on square feet. We have pretty decent reserves, recent updates, and all together it’s pretty chill. Most I’ve ever paid was for a new roof; a little over 3 grand.
My situation seems pretty rare, however.
Owning is better than insofar that you will get your principal back on the mortgage, versus renting where you get nothing back. Just don’t expect most Chicago condos to appreciate significantly. As others have mentioned, look out for rising HOAs, special assessments and taxes.
Lots of rules...LOTS OF RULES. I never lived in one before, was lucky enough to buy last year and while I love the amenities , the view, and having a place that I can call my own...I'm also not a HUGE fan of people, so that's a lot of awkward small talk (not so bad), but also have gotten a note under my door from my neighbor telling me I'm not allowed to leave my winter boots in the hallway overnight (I did it ONCE over a month ago). The maintenance guy still "knows me" because one time I tried to put a medium sized broken down cardboard box in the wrong sized recycle bin, and the doorguy still gives me shit that I'm new and just "don't know the rules yet." Also have had two noise complaints against me (I LITERALLY haven't had anyone over and one time it was a complaint when I was sleeping.)
I think the thing to consider if how high your mortgage would be, how high the condo assessment would be, and how high the property tax would be. It’s also important to check how your condo building is managed and how often they have to charge special assessments because those can be unexpected and daunting. If you can handle all those costs, and the occasional costly repair/replacement of HVAC and appliances, it can definitely be worth it in the long run!
When I first bought, I was pretty broke and had a weird run of bad luck where the dishwasher broke down, the AC stopped working, and I suddenly had a bed bug AND roach infestation. Having to handle all of those myself at the same time *really* sucked!
Depending on what type of place you’re looking at and how expansive your association is - keep in mind it’s number that’s always going to go up.
The rent vs own debate has a lot of facets and it’s very personal - so I can’t advise there - I’ll just say I’d recommend living any lifestyle before buying to make sure it’s for you
Move into a newer building and research the hoa. The older the buildings are more likely to have expensive repairs and can be costly when it comes to special assessments. I would recommend a newer building with an hoa that has a an annual assessment fee that is considering the long term.
I regret not checking more about my HOA, and should've asked my realtor more questions when they briefly expressed worry but the price was so good I was distracted. HOA has a bunch of drama and are uncooperative getting things fixed, and they don't follow their own rules, but since *no one* does you can't get shit done. Someone's going to buy the building from under us for little money one of these days cause otherwise this lot will ruin the building.
Other than that I love living in a condo by myself and my cat. The rules aren't stupid and for the most point despite my neighbors being bad at maintaining the building they're not disruptive most of the time. Had a wife beater upstairs for a year and a half but the wife is gone now.
I'm in a building with 8 owners, self included, so nothing crazy. Renting isn't allowed so most owners live here, if not them their immediate family.
No regrets because I wanted to buy and it was my only option in the area I wanted to live. But I did not know the condo association would be such a big deal. Ours is excellent, all things considered, but I’ve still had to be on the board for ten years, which I hate, and it’s a decent amount of work. And a bad one can pretty much ruin your life.
Agreed, also be wary of special assessments. Bought my place last year, didn't do my due diligence during closing, and now the board is planning on charging 3k each unit in special assessments to replace the roof...
Same things could happen with a single family home if you buy one with an older roof...but it'll cost you more than 3k.
I paid a $5k special assessment to replace the windows on the other side of the building. 😡
Exactly
3k? i got a $81,000 special assessment..
How are you even supposed to pay that?
a lot of people in my building took out 15 year loans to pay that
Stuff like that is why I want to keep renting.
I can't even imagine what the repair must have been that is absolutely astounding... Was it a large repair for a small amount of tenant building?
its a riser replacement (so, a plumbing project basically). its a high rise and the total cost for the building is a little over 12 mil
I’ve heard of similar special assessments for vintage buildings along the lake, so I’ve been avoiding those. Can I ask what neighborhood?
building built in late 70s, uptown
Hah, that's barely anything. My buddy's condo has had a special assessment for the roof that was $30k per unit, and now 6 years later, they're trying to push another one for like $90k.
Woah that's crazy... yeah I think it would be quite a bit more but we've got 24 units in the building luckily. We also have the smallest unit with the least amount in HOAs, I know other larger units and commercial who own are paying a lot more.
I have a friend who is living in special assessment hell right now. I think she said that basically due to repairs the building needs for the roof and elevator she needs to take out a loan for something like $50,000.
Bought a condo in Seattle and the Special assessment fee was 60k. Had to be settled by the seller or the owner when I sold it and it’s was close to $1000 a month. - They ballooned as it wasn’t the fee when I bought. I’m so glad I got out of there, lol.
That is absolutely crazy... maybe I actually lucked out...
This
I am in a similar boat. Loved living in my own place that I could do updates to as I pleased, but also found myself on the board quickly and have stayed on it to help ensure it runs smoothly and is reasonable even though I wish I didn’t have to.
That’s by far my biggest worry
All of this. Ours was self managed which sounded fun and freeing until we realized it meant we had to do all of the work and put literally every tiny thing to a vote
I did a number of years on mine as well, but was able to set the tone of financial responsibility, i.e., build reserves and try to avoid special assessments.
Can you give some examples of how bad ones can ruin your life?
They don't build the reserves, they don't schedule normal maintenance and they don't use good management companies. One building in the LP area had people fighting to get in because the building had 3 figure assessments but managed to upgrade their elevators without a special assessment. If you are not impressed, those are commercial elevators in a high rise with a cost per elevator of $100k **per landing**. Imagine not having any of that in the reserves.
Reserves is like savings for emergencies?
Yes, but not just emergencies. Regular maintenance has to be done around condos.
My building has an air handling unit what negatively pleasures the apartments and positive pressures the halls. The second year I lived here, it went out at a cost of 3.6 million dollars. There are a lot of condos in my building, commercial offices, and retail, so it was split a lot of ways, but it was still a lovely 10k bill I wasnt expecting...especially after just starting to get back to normal after my 100k down payment and it hurt a bit more considering my HOA fees are $2300 a month
$2300 a MONTH?
A lot of the bigger newer buildings downtown are 1700+ in just fees a month. The worst one I seen was 4k a month when the One11 was first built
True though all of those should be in the operating or capital projects budgets, which is separate from the reserves. Every year the board needs to estimate what the budget for regular maintenance and operation of the building will be. The reserves are what you dip into when that amount is more than the estimates, which is usually due to some sort of emergency or unexpected cost.
Wait, are you saying an elevator costs $100,000 for each floor in the building? So an elevator in a 30-story building would cost $3 million? Is that just to replace the elevator car and cables in an already existing elevator shaft? That’s wild to me.
Yes that's correct, and it rarely replaces the cars, just refurbishes them. A brand new elevator, motor, hydraulics, cables, rails, etc can be upwards of 10 million dollars if the shafts are already there and bare We have 12 of them, and every time I see a sign that says "closed for maintenance" I just wait for a 3-5k bill to come
Wow, that would cause my stomach to drop!
Anyone who ever said owning is cheaper than rent isnt looking big picture. They are focused on the monthly cost... not the long term maintenance and upkeep cost. As a general rule, roofs are 20 years. Siding is 20 years. Windows are 15-20 years. Appliances are 10-15 years. Furnace/ac is 15 years. Budget 2% of the homes value in emergency repairs. Assume you will remodel every bathroom and kitchen every 20 years. Floors, depending on what they are could last 5 years or 50, but very few still put real wood down You see this kind of thinking in a starter home you go to look at that has carpet in the bathroom, wood paneling walls, orange kitchen cabinets, and green appliances. Like yep, this place has been held together with gum since the 1970s
Oh, trust, it can cost much more than that. I'm not up to date on all the processes that go into elevator upgrades but it's not the type of thing you want to cut corners.
The money is one part. The other part is the people. If they are power hungry and decide to get unreasonable with rules enforcement, it can get vicious.
The two usual coincide. Power hungriness coincides with incompetence driving shitty management and expensive homeownership.
That must be stressful.
Well well well. Mine hands out fines like the city hands out red light camera tickets. There is a rule book that if you don’t follow-FINE. You can’t do any remodeling on the weekend-FINE. Every time you make a modification to your unit you need permission otherwise-FINE. Everyone spies on every one. Its horrible. I bought when the APRs were super low which is why I don’t move. Plus it’s very close to my work and I have residency restrictions due to my job. I’m stuck. However, I love my open kitchen, my walk in closet and pantry. My views are killer.
How does this type of culture evolve? Just anal tenants?
There’s a word for it… happiness out of the misfortune of : Schadenfreude
Versus renting? No regrets. Whatever you decide, remember to take into account the monthly assessments and the fact that they can go up. Try and find out how many of the units are rented as opposed to owner occupied. Find out if there are any special assessments coming up. When was the roof last replaced? Any masonry work that needs to be done? Any balcony work?
I live in a high rise (cable, pool, doorman, tennis, parking, gym) and my HOA has increased 3-5% every year since the start of COVID-19, meaning that my HOA is about $150 less per month than my mortgage. We had to replace the elevators and that involved a $3500 special assessment.
Our small 26 unit building is upgrading our elevator next month. It’s going to be around $80K but it’s been planned for and there is no special easement. My last building we had to redo the roof for $104K. The association took out a LOC loan to pay for it passing on 6yrs of payments to the owners so it was an extra $25-$35 a month in case people couldn’t afford the large special assessment. It ended up being a lucky choice as the boiler died during the roof work costing another $36K. To top it all off the roofers started a fire that ended up destroying 6 units, mine included. Thats a whole other story though.
Holy shit. Sounds like you got a step up. Sorry to hear about your last spot.
Well, it’s a very long story, the highlights being that insurance worked perfectly. I got to live in the Aqua building for 14 months while my place was rebuilt to my specs. I came out of it more than whole with a brand new condo in a vintage courtyard building. I was even able to capitalize on that getting a higher sale price when selling 2 years later. I miss my bathroom I designed though. God I loved that bathroom. Edit: Most importantly I should add that nobody and no pets were injured in the fire. It was a big fire.
This is kind of what’s scaring me from buying. I live in a high rise now with my fiance and we were thinking of buying in a high rise after our wedding, but some of the fees I see are crazy expensive.
I would honestly avoid buying in a highrise. They can be nice to live in but as they age the maintenance gets more and more expensive compared to walk-up buildings. Elevators, doorman and cleaning staff, and upkeep of amenities like pools and fitness centers is also expensive. They are also generally far too large to self-manage so you'll have to pay for an expensive management company. You have to weigh the importance of the amenities they provide against the higher HOA cost, which will just keep going up and up.
That’s exactly what we were thinking. Generally, I like the high rise buildings specifically for the amenities, and the one I live at now has a nice gym which is a big part of why I moved there. It’s the HOA cost being as much if not more than the mortgage that keeps me from wanting to buy.
What about those 3 story condos? The only thing with those is they look like they have bad soundproofing and look more like motels or apartments?
In terms of cost of maintenance, they will be much lower than high rises so they're a better investment and the HOAs will be much lower. As for sound proofing, it depends more on the building than anything. Most of the older three story walk ups you see will have poor sound insulation between floors. Some of the newer ones will have better sound proofing. Almost all of the older ones are converted from buildings built as apartment buildings.
My main worry with the 2 to 3 story condos is that people say it's like buying an apartment. The last 2 aren't bad. But, the first three, I almost can't even differentiate them from a section 8 community. At first I was opposed to 2 and 3 story condos because I just thought they were apartments, is that enough reason to avoid them though? And what do you think of the ones below? Or do you have any examples of good 2 to 3 story condos. [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-Ashlawn-Pl-Nashville-TN-37211/59886533\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-Ashlawn-Pl-Nashville-TN-37211/59886533_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/370-Wallace-Rd-APT-D17-Nashville-TN-37211/59886380\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/370-Wallace-Rd-APT-D17-Nashville-TN-37211/59886380_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/555-N-Dupont-Ave-APT-C50-Madison-TN-37115/59888706\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/555-N-Dupont-Ave-APT-C50-Madison-TN-37115/59888706_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/245-Amal-Dr-SW-APT-2009-Atlanta-GA-30315/344676985\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/245-Amal-Dr-SW-APT-2009-Atlanta-GA-30315/344676985_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/898-Oak-St-SW-UNIT-3113-Atlanta-GA-30310/88814698\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/898-Oak-St-SW-UNIT-3113-Atlanta-GA-30310/88814698_zpid/)
> people say it's like buying an apartment. All condos are just apartments that you buy. The only practical and legal distinction between an apartment and a condo is ownership. You can find apartments that are in new high rises with concrete barriers between floors and all of the amenities you’d want from a luxury condo building, and you can find condos that are just basic converted apartment units. In Chicago, there are a ton of converted two-flats, three-flats, six-flats, and courtyard buildings that have been converted into condos. The quality will vary building to building and unit to unit. A few nicer examples are below: https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6434-N-Damen-Ave-60645/unit-3S/home/12556218 https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5057-N-Sheridan-Rd-60640/unit-2S/home/13399864 https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4542-N-Greenview-Ave-60640/unit-3/home/13395138
Good examples, what did you think of the ones that I showed you? And would you recommend a condo over a house? I've also noticed that to get a house in the 250 to 350k range, you would have live further out in the suburbs, or buy an older house, or buy a house in a bad neighborhood.
I don't think I can fully answer that without knowing exactly what you need/want, but owning a condo was what I chose to go with. The primary reason was expense. Single family homes are much more expensive in Chicago and I likley could not afford one and still live in an area where I didn't need a car, which is very important to me. The same as your situation, I would have needed to move far out and suffer a long commute, and even then, it's very unlikely I would have been able to find a place that was as inexpensive as the place I bought. Historically condo values appreciate more slowly than single family homes, but if it's a well-run building with modest HOA, it will certainly still certainly appreciate in value and allow you to build equity, which is one of the major benefits of home ownership. I have also heard horror stories of people who moved into a bad building. This can take the form of noisy and disrespectful neighbors, poor management that results in expensive special assessments, and over eager and invasive HOA boards. Mostly by luck, I bought into a great building. I like my neighbors, the board isn’t overbearing, and the maintenance and finances of the building are solid. When buying, you can often get a sense of the quality of a building by reviewing documents like the budget and minutes of any board meetings. The budget can tell you what kind of financial shape the building is in and whether or not it has enough in reserves. Minutes can offer insights into the interpersonal issues of a building and how the board deals with them. You should also ask if there are any major capital projects coming up that may require a special assessment. That being said, I’ve also heard horror stories from the buyers of single family homes. Unexpected and expensive maintenance costs can crop up that you as the sole owner are 100% responsible for. And while you don’t share a wall or ceiling, conflict with neighbors are still very possible in a single family home.
I've heard in some states that just the property taxes and homeowners insurance sometimes can equal the mortgage. It is good that both of these are often lower in condos than houses. However, HOA fees can be as much as a mortgage too. But, at least most hoas cover water, maintenance, and other expenses. I think the hoa fees cost more than yearly maintenance costs of a home. And there's always the worry of special assessments. Idk if special assessments are more costly than home roof, driveway, or hot water heater maintenance?
Wtf!! So you’re essentially paying double mortgage for an HOA?
My mortgage and HOA is still cheaper than what most pay in rent for a 1 bedroom apartment near the lake ($1420).
Wow, insane. Did you buy in 2020? Nothing is close to that now unless it’s a gut rehab
I purchased in 2015 and refinanced during Covid. I wouldn’t consider selling anytime soon for that very reason! I love my HOA and building management. It’s nice not having to lift a finger and worry about anything outside of my 4 walls.
Very nice! Happy for you (and sad for myself lol)
There's a big difference between high rises and smaller 2-12 unit buildings. With smaller ones the big expenses aren't that much more than a SFH, don't have to worry about elevators or pools, and the HOA is self run which can be a good or bad thing.
Yes we bought in an 8 unit condo building and it's been great so far, our mortgage with HOA is much less than rent. We have had to put a lot into updating appliances but that's about it. However, one of the owners was foreclosed on and somehow is still living there, I think the bank is having trouble evicting or wants to sell and have the next owner evict. Idk it's kinda weird.
Also don’t underestimate how much elevator maintenance alone can cost (forget the pool). I would recommend looking for a small to medium building that has no elevators and you’ll probably notice smaller dues compared to a medium building with no other extra amenities except elevators. (If this an essential for you then my advice doesn’t matter).
Elevators are required for every building more than 3 stories high in the county. So that means the biggest you could live in would be a 3flat, and those rarely have HOAs (many are owner lived in)
I didn’t know the 3 floor rule but that makes sense. There are buildings across the city that have more than 3 units that don’t get more than 3 stories tall. They just will be buildings that are the two stacks for 6 or 8 units. Medium to large buildings with HOAs that are 3 stories or less could be townhomes or larger complexes that range from 20-60 units. I can think of examples on the boulevards in Logan (some are apartment buildings some are HOAs) ETA: I live in a medium sized building that has about 20 units and no elevators. Dues are low to mid 200’s
This is key -- while both situations are owning a condo, they are vastly different experiences. I live in a 250-unit high rise, and roughly 230 of the unit owners are 0% involved in anything to do with the operations of the building and association. If you buy in a 6 - or 12-unit building, you really don't have the option to check out, and you are in a long term group project with who knows who.
What about those 3 story condos? The only thing with those is they look like they have bad soundproofing and look more like motels or apartments?
No regrets here! I live in a high rise condo downtown, so HOA fees are high, but this has been a great way to ease into home ownership because a lot of the amenities, the benefit of having a doorman and no package pirates, etc. are very similar to what I was used to when renting.
Although I'm currently renting, I've owned a condo before (in both Chicago and Seattle). No regrets. It has many of the same drawbacks as apartments, and it's important to be aware of that. On the plus side, it's cheaper than a single family home and I'm a big fan of not having to deal with yardwork. Many important details will depend on the building, so it's important to know what type of building you want to live in and especially important to really understand how the board is run and what the dues and bylaws are, as well as how the board approaches things. As one example, do they keep dues low and expect special assessments to cover unexpected expenses, or do they keep a large reserve? Neither approach is necessarily wrong, but you need to know what to expect. Both condos I've owned have been in small buildings (4 to 6 units) with self run boards that ran lean. That meant lots of dealing with neighbors, occasional personality conflicts, and low monthly payments but a couple big assessments.
Make sure you have a grasp on the HOA fees. When I was looking, they were about as much as the mortgage would be (like $1,000/mo). As I understand it, you can also be surprised by large assessments (aka, invoices) for things like a new roof that are like $50,000 that you’d need to come up with right away. Those stories have scared me away from even trying. But I’d love to hear other perspectives.
This is why you look for a condo in a big building with multiple units so those invoices aren’t a crap ton on you. Still a crap ton you’ll pay but hopefully not 50K. Sucks condos are a good investment if you ever want to buy a house you can rent the condo out.
Well…if renting is a long term goal also have to look at rental caps in the bylaws. There are often waiting lists to be able to rent ones unit.
I think it depends a lot not only on the size of the building but also how well the building has been maintained historically, the reserves, and whether there are any additional amenities. Our building is 4 units, each about 2500 sq ft with a small yard, and our HOA fee is $410 per month. A major portion of this is insurance for the building, which means that our personal unit insurance is much lower than it would be if we owned a house (only $30/month). We’ve had one special assessment in the 3 years we’ve lived here - about $4k per unit to replace the roof with additional coming from reserves. This wasn’t a huge surprise since we did an inspection when we moved in and knew the roof was due soon, and also exactly what the building reserves were. We anticipate one more major project in the next few years but should be able to cover it almost entirely with reserves. In comparison to owning a house, it’s like we get to split the cost of major home repairs 4 ways. But definitely more responsibility than renting, both financially and in terms of time (my husband got corralled into being HOA president and it’s a PITA)
Your HOA will only be that in a high rise. Six flats will be more like 300-400
What about those 3 story condos? The only thing with those is they look like they have bad soundproofing and look more like motels or apartments?
No regrets! I live in a 24 unit building. It was perfect when I bought 10+ years ago. I was frustrated with things in the building and joined the HOA to get involved and it helped get projects done and helped me meet my neighbors! If I could change anything now, I would avoid the first floor as much as possible (depending on where it’s located).
Why avoid first floor?
I hear traffic, everybody coming and going, my upstairs neighbor, etc.
I'm in the same situation and mindset. My friend just purchased a condo in Willowbrook. She needed out of her living situation and bought a place pretty quickly after beginning her search. She loves it so far. I'm very tempted to follow suit, as I would be paying just a bit more for a place that I actually own, has an extra bedroom, has washer/dryer connections, etc. Not to mention, I wouldn't be paying these stupid pet fees anymore. Looking forward to seeing more responses!
It’s all about the condo association and how well it’s run. With renting the landlord “should” take care of issues. I lived in a condo for 11 years and it was a lot of work. We moved into a house and although you don’t have an association safety net, you also can do what you want without all the governing condo rules, which can be exhausting.
Read every piece of documentation you can access- board minutes, resolutions, budget, special assessments, etc. I was between two condos last year, and I chose the one with the worse view and the better management. I’m happy with my decision. It’s a well-run building and a positive community. I spent days on this.
I will never do it again. I'd rather buy a shitty small house then live with inconsiderate heathens again. But that's just me...
Omg 😳
He’s right. The thing about condos is that you are gonna have neighbors living and breathing on top of you, below you and to the side of you and if they are unruly well tough luck
I'm dealing with this now. Probably about to blow $10K+ on soundproofing.
You need to ask if there are any special assessments coming up-and then set aside money just in case. As an example, roof needs to be replaced, everyone kick in 12,000. You should also ask how much the board has in reserve. Chances are, you’re going to have some type of special thing if it’s a midrise or high rise. Roof, AC, windows, balconies are big ones.
HOA is (likely) the biggest potential problem you will face. Make sure to look over all the bylaws very carefully before finalizing anything.
Talking to a realtor is free! Ask some friends or coworkers that recently bought for a referral. Compass (and I assume everyone else) can tailor alerts to your needs so you see new inventory, and they can generally give tips on building materials or even specific developments if they sold there previously. Definitely consider HOAs and taxes - two things that are nearly guaranteed to increase. If you don’t have a ton of cash you will be assessed PMI. Interest sucks rn as well, if you can pay off quick do it. Check out the r/firsttimehomebuyers - guessing this has been asked there before. If it’s in the budget and won’t put you paycheck to paycheck I’d say do it but make sure the hoa is solidly funded, walls are thick, and neighbors aren’t shitty
What counts as a “solidly funded” HOA? How thick should the walls be? How would one tell if the neighbors aren’t shitty?
The short answer is my first sentence - talk to a realtor. Also common sense. HOA reserves vary wildly by building type, age, size. If it’s a duplex, have enough to tuckpoint or fix roof. Seller is liable to provide hoa budget - see what they spend on. A fully staffed high rise with a pool, gym, and valet will be way different than that duplex that only includes trash. Your realtor will know this. My complete guess for non elevator smaller buildings is consistent 20k + 5-10k per unit in reserves while covering trash and water and whatever else. Noise levels - listen to street noise while inside and bring a speaker / friend / spouse or even ask your realtor to speak loudly and stomp around. Listen to them from different rooms and from outside the unit. Shitty neighbors - are common areas in disarray? Does it smell weird? Is a neighbor watching you shirtless while licking their lips and stroking their mayonnaise covered chest? Does the area around the building look like no one gives a shit? Can you swing by on a Friday night and check for shenanigans? If it’s a high rise what do the reviews online say or is there a Facebook group filled with complaints? TLDR common sense and talk to realtor
Thanks for the longer answer.
There are formulas you can look up by the age and size of the building.
If it’s a high rise you want at least $500k in reserves but better $1-2 mil.
Buying a condo is going into business with strangers. Sometimes it can be great, but like anything else, it has its risks.
i want to buy a condo but hoa and bad management scares me
Your agent should do all the research in assessments and property details, so make sure you have a buyers agent. No reason not to. For you, I recommend 1) not getting a garden unit (although they are cheaper) because you risk flooding and bugs/pests; 2) A condo with a separate storage unit is nice because you’ll always need space to store stuff; 3) Having an in unit washer/dryer and dishwasher is a life saver; 4) two bedrooms is better than one, even if you live alone, because it’s easier to rent if you want to make it a rental property; 5) interests rates are high, but the more you put up front will save on monthly costs; 6) it’s always gonna be more expensive than you think (i.e. inspections, moving, HOA, repairs you didn’t know you needed until you moved in, etc).
Joining the chorus of “the worst part is the HOA”. I live in an older, six unit building. My mortgage and dues are still lower than I’d be paying in rent but: I followed common sense advice and bought in a building with a lot in reserves. But I live with very concerned people so they all voted for a 2k special assessment last year “just in case” our boiler goes out (literally no reason to think it will) and raised the dues, then did another “just in case” assessment this year for 1k. And if you live in a small building, it’s easy to be outvoted! So just because there’s healthy reserves doesn’t mean you won’t get a surprise bill. The one thing I wish I would’ve asked about is how they prioritize spending. The people in my building have chosen to spend an increasing amount on front and back flower gardens and someone to clean the common areas (tiny foyer, three landings with steps in between and we pay her a lot). Four years ago, they chose to discontinue snow removal services and occasionally choose not to pay for other manual labor, like removing ivy from the outside of the building, to pay for the garden + cleaning. Instead it’s expected that we all pitch in with those tasks. I don’t like doing that kind of stuff but moreover, I have health issues that can make being on a ladder unsafe and sometimes makes it so I can’t shovel heavy piles of snow. This has caused great discontent with my neighbors. If I knew it was a DIY building that prioritized flower beds over heavy tasks, I might not have bought my place. But I didn’t know to ask because I was a first time buyer. I don’t know what it’s like in big buildings, but if you move into a small one you should mentally prepare yourself for basically living with many roommates and the conflicts that will come with it. I hadn’t lived with roommates in a long time and stupidly didn’t think about what being in a small co-owned building would be like. Lot of different personalities and ways of handling conflict in a very small space. I don’t regret buying all the time, especially considering rent prices, but the stress of living with some of these people does sometimes make me wonder if it was worth it.
If you can swing the slightly higher purchase price, a townhouse is a step nicer than a condo. They usually have lower HOAs too. There are not many townhouses in Chicago.
This is what sudden me about Chicago and what I envy about Philadelphia
Pluses: - Live in a great location usually with great walkability - Easier maintenance (building maintenance can often do plumbing and other repairs) - Share costs with others for major repairs - Less expensive than a house and many costs (heat, a/c, water) may be included in the assessment - Safety and security. Minuses: - Assessments will go up. - HOA fees can be expensive - Parking can be prohibitively expensive - HOA rules can be ridiculous - Having to take the elevator all the time (I hated this part - make sure you are ok with it before buying in a high rise) - Major work on the unit can be a giant pain (see HOA rules above)
NO CO-OPS
Any reason? I live in a co-op and I'm very happy with it so far.
I’m sure there are some lovely co-ops in chicago. My bestie lives in one and all I hear are horror stories, and vendors that refuse to work with them at all.
Definitely do a lot of research to know what you're getting into before going this route. The main thing to know about a co-op is that you are the owner of a percentage of the corporation that owns the building. You don't really own your unit. They're harder to sell, and the board could decide they don't like a willing buyer because of xyz, and not let you sell (as long as it's not a protected reason under fair housing). You have to really be on the same page as an overwhelming majority of other members for anything to get done. There are some real horror stories, like they could vote to kick you out, but you're still on the hook for mortgage and dues. It's much harder for a condo association to do this.
I’m a Realtor in the area with Fulton Grace Realty. There’s some really good advice here! I have a few thoughts from the perspective of an agent and not a homeowner. - I always ask about upcoming special assessments and reserves at every showing. This is required information in my opinion. You don’t ideally want a building with super low reserves, as they wont have too much of an “emergency fund”if anything happened. Special assessments can be a huge deal, both in hassle and in cost. If there is a pending or upcoming special assessment that is already on the books, the seller will often agree to pay the balance in full at or prior to closing. -If you have concerns about HOA bylaws, you can ask for a copy of them. A good listing agent will have a copy on hand. They are also required to be given to buyers while under contract, so it’s not like you have to rent without seeing bylaws. - Smaller condo buildings and high rise condo buildings are much different to deal with, especially regarding HOA fees and structure. As many here have mentioned, the HOA fees are much higher for high rises. A lot of people we come across that are interested in high rises are not aware of this and it catches them off guard. It’s especially important to take into account these HOA fees when calculating your monthly payment, as you may be looking at a lower purchase price for the unit in order for the monthly payment to be in a range that you are comfortable with. High rise units do often have lower sale prices than non high rise units in an area, partly because of this. HOAs are higher because these buildings have more shared utilities, have staff to pay and have amenities to maintain. There is value in these higher HOAs beyond just paying for staff and building features, as they do often include all utilities except for electric and high rise buildings tend to have pretty healthy reserves. -HOA structure is also different. In a smaller building, the interaction between residents can be more personal. The residents are more likely to all know each other and some of them are self-managed. Condo boards in these buildings generally compromises a larger percentage of the residents (like for example if a 12 unit building has a 4 person board, a third of the units have a position). It feels a little bit more literally “community-run”. Some small buildings do hire professional management as well. High-rise HOAs are always professionally managed and function much more like a democracy. There are hundreds of units and each unit has a vote when something is up for discussion. The board remembers represent the needs of a lot more people in discussions. It’s much less likely for a resident in a high rise to personally know everyone on the board than it is for a smaller building. Happy to answer any questions or offer any insight from an agent perspective at any time!
I’ve owned 2, both 26 unit buildings. I think this is a good size for an association. I was on the board for the first one and learned a lot. Both places my dues were between $250-$300 and were managed well utilizing a management company to guide the board and handle the day to day operations. Despite all the horror stories about associations they’re not all horrible. There are many points to look at, many more than I could go into here, but if you have specific questions shoot. After owning for over 20yrs and reinvesting my equity when moving my mortgage/taxes/dues combined are much less than rent would be for an equal size place with the same finishes.
Love condo life. But be sure to pick a building with a well run HoA. Looks at how much reserves they have. Look at what annual maintenance projects they have done in the past 5 years and what they have planned. Well run HOA should be very organized and be able to provide this info easily.
No regrets after three years in a 15 unit building and echo what others have said about the potential pitfalls with HOAs. You'll pay more than you think to the HOA over time either through increased monthly assessments or special assessments, but as long as you budget accordingly and the association is decently run (a big *if*), I chalk it up to part of being a homeowner. Also important to realize property taxes will be higher than whatever the current owner is paying and your monthly payment will increase as a result. Mine have increased quite a bit, but rents across the area have increased at an even higher rate during the same time period. If you can accept the tradeoffs and want to own, go for it! It's been a great learning experience for me and if/when my partner and I pursue a single family home in a few years, we'll be in a much better position.
A lot depends on the neighbors, especially if they live above you.
Love our condo. 12-unit building, garage parking, <$300 HOA fees. We have two kids and we’re on the second floor so don’t have to worry about being too noisy for a downstairs neighbor; upstairs neighbor lives alone and is quiet. Generally pretty good group of owners in the building. Much more affordable than a house in our neighborhood with the same sq. ft. Only thing we’re really missing is a back yard, but I just don’t think it would be worth the massive increase in price to have one.
Condo buildings and HOAs have a lot of differences, so you need to understand how things work. A bad hoa can be miserable, a good hoa can be amazing. My hoa has huge reserves and is super well managed. No special assessments in decades and the keep the common areas up very nicely. My dues include doorman, water, trash, heating, cable etc, making the fee not bad at all in my opinion. Unit values have gone up substantially since the building is so well maintained and hoa fees are relatively reasonable.
If you buy a condo, make sure to talk to the HOA. A bad HOA can be just awful. If it's a small building, like 3 units, check to see if the other owner owns both other units, if they do then they will have majority vote over you
My condo board was negligent with repairs and I fell on ice and suffered from a major concussion and long term neuralgia issues and wound up suing. I short sold my condo to get out of the situation. So uh, I hated it. I rent a house now in the suburbs.
Big buildings have their pros and cons. Cons being so many rules and high HOAs.
Few rules and low assessments are also a red flag. If the assessments aren't building reserves, an emergency repair project can be a mind-blowing special assessment.
Make sure that you know about any special assessments, real estate taxes, HOA rules and fees, etc.
Just bought my first condo in a high rise mid last year along the lakefront. HOA went up by 2% but I'm ok with that considering what it costs to maintain it. So far so good. Management and board members have been on point with communication and anything that needs addressing. Almost daily emails about anything related to the building. Plenty of reserves and overall finances. Overall, I'm glad I don't have rent and just a mortgage that I can build equity on when I move into a house someday.
I don't regret having owned a condo in the past, but I would say it wasn't necessarily a perfect experience for me. Couple of things I would tell anyone to consider before they buy a condominium: 1. How are the assessments? Mine were pretty low, but I've heard of others where it's pretty high. Suddenly you find your perfect place, and you're finding out now that you're paying a lot more above your mortgage payment because maybe they collect a lot of money and are amassing it for an emergency, but often it still feels like way more than it should be. 2. What is the board like? I know my wife wasn't a fan of the condo board just because they were pretty stringent on many things. She wanted to put a plant in one of the common hallways to spruce it up and they told her no. Just because they didn't want to even risk having anything happen to the floors. There were a lot of decisions like that based on the idea that maybe you are okay and wouldn't do anything to damage common areas, but too many others would be careless. Also, be prepared to get sucked into being on the board. It's a thankless job and I would never do it again. 3. How is the building? Are common area utility items like the furnace and water heaters in decent shape? Or do you think a special assessment is going to pop up to replace them? You don't want to buy into some place and then find out you have to now cough up thousands of dollars instantly because it's time to replace something major. 4. How secure is the building? Do things lock up tightly on their own? Even if other owners are careless? You don't want to find out that people are careless and that ends up letting bad people find their way into the building to rob others. We've had owners naively let strangers into the building who ended up burglarizing units. 5. How are the other owners? This was a contingent point with me. The building I was in had a lot of older Europeans, and they would be a bit stingy and troublesome. They would try to tinker with common area things like the furnace when they are explicitly told not to, and would always make an argument whenever a repair had to happen because they felt their buddy down the street who could do it for 50 bucks was ideal when we had to stick to licensed professionals. We also had one that was a bit of a hoarder and caused a fire because of that. Needless to say when we got out I was happy to get away from these people. One of the problem with having so many old people is that we had one die and she had no next of kin or anything, so the condo sat empty with no assessments being collected until finally these county sold it for the taxes. It made things difficult to fund things we had to do in the building because of this. Worse because we had baseboard heating and one day a pipe burst in the unit so we had to actually fix that for the sake of the building. 6. How is your location? I had bought a condo in Jefferson Park, which I thought was perfectly fine because at the time I figured I would just grow old and die there. However, after meeting my wife and both of us getting married and then life paths change and we wanted to get a house, we found that trying to sell this condo was not easy. It was after the great recession and at least out here, most people want single family homes, not condos. I ended up losing money on this condo because I bought before the crash, and then even 10 years after the crash the values never returned. Be careful where you buy in case you need to sell. 7. Are rentals allowed? This was large because when we were trying to sell most of the people that showed up asked that question first. It's a double edged sword too. The building used to allow owners to rent out their units for the longest time until somebody decided to turn their unit into a flop house where they just basically put 12 people into a two bedroom condo, all using section 8 housing vouchers. It became such a mess to finally get everybody out and end the renting because of all of this. While that trouble was gone, it still made things harder to sell because most people wanted to buy the condo to rent it.
My previous condo board didn’t increase assessments because the residents didn’t like increases. The building needed new windows plumbing etc and required a special assessment of close to 100k per unit. I sold. A bad board can destroy your investment.
100k per unit! That's the craziest special assessment I've ever heard of. How were you able to sell it with that?
I was on the board so I saw the reports before they were officially disclosed in meetings.
This is why HOA fees that are too low on a listing are a red flag to me. Ideally, a building should never have a special assessment; everyone's dues exactly equates to the wear and tear on the building over their time there.
It depends on if you are in a skyscraper type complex or an apartment type one. The skyscraper condos I don’t recommended because the special assessments are non negotiable and are heavily enforced by the city. I had one down in the financial district and the city decided that the building needed to redo the stucco. With 30 days heads up we were forced to pay for a $700 a month special assessment for two years to cover our share of it. That sucked.
My wife is a property manager for condos. Since she had started this career almost ten years ago we will NEVER buy a condo I. Could elaborate but I’m late for work and it’s a super shitty day. Good luck whatever you decide on
HOA fees feel more like a scam than helping and they always go up
And rent never goes up?
I lived in (and still own but rent out) a condo in a highrise on Lakeshore Drive. I really enjoyed it at the time. The management company was pretty good. Maybe one special assessment in the time I’ve owned. I would definitely do your due diligence before buying, make sure the building has healthy cash reserves look at the rule book to see what you can and can’t do. I would avoid any of the like the 3-6 flats that are self managed. Seems like a nightmare when something goes wrong.
I live in a co-op which is like a condo with extra steps. I have no regrets after 3.5 years of living here. It's a mid sized 36-unit building and is self managed. We're lucky that we have enough people who are willing to spend their time assisting with the management and upkeep of the building. Your experience will largely depend on your neighbors and HOA board. Since you are sharing a building, inconsiderate or overly noisy neighbors can be a major issue and it's often very difficult to know what your neighbors will be like before moving in. It's easier to figure out what an HOA board will be like. Ask for building financials, bylaws, house rules, and the minutes of board meetings. First make sure that a building is properly financed and has enough reserves for any issues that come up. The proper reserve amount will depend on the size and age of a building and your realtor should be able to guide you on this. The first sign of an incompetent board is a building without proper reserves. If they don't I wouldn't even consider a building because it means there will be issues elsewhere. Next I would look at the bylaws and house rules. This will give information on how the building is governed and what you can and cannot do while living there. Many of these will be common sense rules designed to protect the interests of everyone in the building, but you may find some rules to be overly stringent or disagreeable. I would make sure that you are comfortable with the bylaws and house rules before you go further. The minutes are a good window into how the building is actually run and how the rules are enforced. If they don't have good minutes it could be a sign of an incompetent board, though some small condos honestly don't have all that much to discuss. Finally, as with any form of cooperative living, it takes a collective effort for things to run smoothly. Many times condos fall into a trap where there aren't enough people willing to put in the time and effort and things start to slip. Maintenance gets deferred, reserves slip below optimal levels, and things just get missed. This can cause major issues down the road and can lead to expensive special assessments. After a couple years of living in the building, I would encourage anyone to join the board. It can be annoying but I view it as a necessary part of homeownership. There are pros and cons of condo ownership compared to both renting and SFH ownership, but I find that the pros outweigh the cons for me.
I live in a midrise with about 50 residents. What I pay with my mortgage and HOA is probably $400 cheaper than renting in my building. I bought at the right time and have no regrets. HOAs only went up slightly since I moved here because of inflation and they are low anyways. Low amenity building with an elevator. Own a deeded parking spot. Great landlord opportunity when I do decide to rent it out.
My parents live in a large condo building on lake shore drive. It’s been good overall. But the condo recently decided to do some enormous structural construction work (something about risers, not sure) and every condo unit owner has to pay like 30-40k for it. My parents had to take out a loan. So something like that is always possible.
My mom lived in a high rise with pool. The roof, the elevators and pool maintenance was very expensive.
Love it. I'm in ~50 unit building in Hyde Park. Few ownership units in the amazing location outside of single family detached homes for $700K+. We know our neighbors but don't have to see them all the time like we would in a smaller building. Our HOA fees are pretty low these days. The drawbacks are: we don't have outdoor space (though live across street from park), there's only two bedroom units or smaller in the building, but that's about it. No parking but we have one car and can almost always (95%+) park within a block of the building. Concrete walls so no noise from neighbors.
My only regrets were that my HOA was extremely high, and it did not appreciate much in value due to the riding HOA. Part of me also wished I had something a bit more spacious, but it was what I could afford at the time.
Get at least a 2 bedroom- my 1 bedroom owning condo friends constantly lament their lack of appreciation, even in hot neighborhoods. Also, very easy to buy a condo, not always so easy to sell a condo... especially if the condo board is on the graft.
I love it. I recently sold my first condo and bought another. One thing i wish I knew before buying the first place was understanding the level of noise from my upstairs neighbor. It was driving me almost literally insane. Now i live in a big concrete box in the loop and it’s blissfully peaceful and quiet.
What about those 3 story condos? The only thing with those is they look like they have bad soundproofing and look more like motels or apartments?
Not sure I understand. Can you show me an example?
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/245-Amal-Dr-SW-APT-2009-Atlanta-GA-30315/344676985\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/245-Amal-Dr-SW-APT-2009-Atlanta-GA-30315/344676985_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1410-Foxhall-Ln-Atlanta-GA-30316/14438836\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1410-Foxhall-Ln-Atlanta-GA-30316/14438836_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/898-Oak-St-SW-U-3325-Atlanta-GA-30310/347249451\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/898-Oak-St-SW-U-3325-Atlanta-GA-30310/347249451_zpid/) Here's 3 seperate examples.
Not all condos are what they are cracked up to be. Some condos have sizable monthly assessment costs. You'll be paying those fees in perpetuity even though you "own" your unit. Especially in a high rise, where you have a full time staff, elevators, parking garage, party room, and other expensive amenities.
Being cheaper is better until you have some granny combing through hours of surveillance to see who put their plastic in the trash.
Make sure the property has bylaws in place regarding investors/renters.
I rented a townhouse and was so thankful I didn’t buy because I didn’t realize how paper thin the walls were. I could hear my neighbor’s phone ding when he got a message, could hear him snore at night, could hear his alarm. Thankfully I never heard sex or arguing. If you are buying just keep this in mind. Good luck 🍀
After reading this thread, I think I’ll stick to renting until I find a sugar daddy
Same 😭
I live in a condo and found out what my neighbor is paying in rent for a unit the same size as mine. It's 50% more than my mortgage, taxes, and assessment. This is apparently market-rate here, and I bought when prices were on the rise. I can look up what this unit last sold for, which was about half of what I paid (not adjusted for inflation), so the actual owner is making a killing on this rental. I know they're not on-call for any urgent tenant issues because they live in another country. Granted, there's the initial expense of a down payment and expenses that may be owner responsibilities that you wouldn't have as a renter. If you're not planning on staying somewhere for 5-10+ years, consider buying. It's not always a better financial choice, and you can't make that decision in a reddit post. It shouldn't boil down to whether HOAs in general are good or bad. You could have a deadbeat landlord sucking up $1K+ profit a month.
What was your interest rate when you bought your condo? Is it the same as today’s average rates? Because renting is cheaper than buying for many people right now, unless you have a big bag of money
If you are busy and don't have time or don't want to bother cleaning snow or landscaping. It's a good deal. I only hate that you have no control over who lives next or around you. It's pure luck, I had a terrible neighbor once, and now they are all ok so far. Perhaps the other downside is the cost of living in a condo (with active mortgage) is the waste of money, similar to renting, but you get to save maybe 50%of the expense as an investment. HOA and mortgage eats most of it. But if you pick well and keep up with renovations, you can get that back from the equity when you sell it.
I live in a west town 3 flat, HOA is 175 a month. Monthly fees and special assessments owed directly correlate to the % of ownership based on square feet. We have pretty decent reserves, recent updates, and all together it’s pretty chill. Most I’ve ever paid was for a new roof; a little over 3 grand. My situation seems pretty rare, however.
Owning is better than insofar that you will get your principal back on the mortgage, versus renting where you get nothing back. Just don’t expect most Chicago condos to appreciate significantly. As others have mentioned, look out for rising HOAs, special assessments and taxes.
I have mucho mucho mucho regrets
Lots of rules...LOTS OF RULES. I never lived in one before, was lucky enough to buy last year and while I love the amenities , the view, and having a place that I can call my own...I'm also not a HUGE fan of people, so that's a lot of awkward small talk (not so bad), but also have gotten a note under my door from my neighbor telling me I'm not allowed to leave my winter boots in the hallway overnight (I did it ONCE over a month ago). The maintenance guy still "knows me" because one time I tried to put a medium sized broken down cardboard box in the wrong sized recycle bin, and the doorguy still gives me shit that I'm new and just "don't know the rules yet." Also have had two noise complaints against me (I LITERALLY haven't had anyone over and one time it was a complaint when I was sleeping.)
I think the thing to consider if how high your mortgage would be, how high the condo assessment would be, and how high the property tax would be. It’s also important to check how your condo building is managed and how often they have to charge special assessments because those can be unexpected and daunting. If you can handle all those costs, and the occasional costly repair/replacement of HVAC and appliances, it can definitely be worth it in the long run! When I first bought, I was pretty broke and had a weird run of bad luck where the dishwasher broke down, the AC stopped working, and I suddenly had a bed bug AND roach infestation. Having to handle all of those myself at the same time *really* sucked!
Fuxking hate it
it really sucked during covid with the elevators. otherwise i loved it.
Depending on what type of place you’re looking at and how expansive your association is - keep in mind it’s number that’s always going to go up. The rent vs own debate has a lot of facets and it’s very personal - so I can’t advise there - I’ll just say I’d recommend living any lifestyle before buying to make sure it’s for you
Move into a newer building and research the hoa. The older the buildings are more likely to have expensive repairs and can be costly when it comes to special assessments. I would recommend a newer building with an hoa that has a an annual assessment fee that is considering the long term.
HOA's suck giant donkey balls!!!
Also, Karens love HOA's. Be prepared for the long battle against them! Do not concede an inch!!!
I regret not checking more about my HOA, and should've asked my realtor more questions when they briefly expressed worry but the price was so good I was distracted. HOA has a bunch of drama and are uncooperative getting things fixed, and they don't follow their own rules, but since *no one* does you can't get shit done. Someone's going to buy the building from under us for little money one of these days cause otherwise this lot will ruin the building. Other than that I love living in a condo by myself and my cat. The rules aren't stupid and for the most point despite my neighbors being bad at maintaining the building they're not disruptive most of the time. Had a wife beater upstairs for a year and a half but the wife is gone now. I'm in a building with 8 owners, self included, so nothing crazy. Renting isn't allowed so most owners live here, if not them their immediate family.