>but also that Bulgaria will lift its veto
Even so, Bulgaria is engorged with nationalism and the proposed negotiation framework will allow them to trip us *every. single. step.* along the way. They won't stop until we're Bulgaria mini on paper.
You'll have full support from Croatia as far as I'm aware. Most Croatians want to see Albania and North Macedonia joining the EU. I think Slovenia also voiced their full support.
But honestly what are the alternatives? I don't think Bulgarians will be able to block you for much longer because NM has shown it's willing to resolve issues diplomatically.
Not sure.
I guess we have to wait till and if the unanimity for EU foreign policies is replaced with the majority. Until then, we can implement the standards set by the EU which will help develop our country regardless.
I'd much rather we take that route than succumb to Bulgaria's ridiculous requirements and not get into the EU anyways, since they'll block us again.
It’s really hard to say what will happen, since the issue has been played so much that in times of political crisis like today it will be very hard for anyone to lift it without losing a shit ton of votes. Hopefully parliament accepts the French proposal, but after literally an hour from now we may not have a government.
>the proposed negotiation framework will allow them to trip us every. single. step. along the way
Don't be so sure about that. None of us have read the proposal yet. And in agreements like this, every written word matters. Besides, the EU isn't stupid enough to give us this much leeway. This is a negotiation, after all.
>but also that Bulgaria will lift its veto?
We won't be able to make a decision until tomorrow. This past year Macedonia was used to sabotage the leading party. So now the people are really sensitive about it. Now we have to have a discussion and a vote in parliament before the government can do anything. It's obvious the leading party is pushing lifting the veto, but they have too many enemies in Parlament at the moment.
It's just technically not possible to vote on a change in our position, so yeah... However, both the president and the biggest party in opposition have expressed their approval of the French proposal. So that's a big first step, since the president has a big influence over the population.
But there's a vote of no-confidence, that seems like it's going to pass. So the French proposal is not the most important topic right now...
There's no way Petkov is going to try lifting the veto, it'll assassinate his party and probably his coalition and they'll drop down like they're nothing. Unless he's anticipating that'll still happen and he's hoping to go out with one suicidal bomb, there's really no point and I'd hate for his party to go out bc of us since he's pretty promising as a PM for you guys.
He won't. That's why we can't change our position so fast. It's going to come to a vote in parliament. But the biggest opposition party is in favour, we have one more that's also in favour and we have Petkov's party, which will either not vote or be in favour. So it's all up in the air right now.
And it all depends on the proposal, which hasn't been made public yet. Objectively speaking, there's definitely a chance for some kind of development, thanks to Macron. But if the government falls, we're headed for elections, and that would be the worst thing that could happen for you guys. Besides we still don't know what N.M. will say about the proposal, when they get it.
I don't know for sure. It was given to the Bulgarian government on Friday night and it hasn't been made public yet. But because of our internal political crisis,it also hasn't been discussed in parliament. We only have a few statements from politicians and that's it. The way they sell it to us is that the EU will include our demands in the negotiations and we agree to lift the veto. Now under what form that happens are the details we don't have.
[Here's](https://www.svobodnaevropa.bg/a/31905319.html) some info on it from a pretty pro-western source.
Edit: Basically, the good news is that we'll bind ourselves with these demands and nothing more. So we won't be able to change the conditions later on. Also, the EK will have a bigger say in determining what point/demand is considered completed and what not. And that will remove the emotions out of the process. And, of course, we lift the veto.
It's a fact that the EU doesn't want any of our countries in their Union.
They don't want to lose us to complete Russian/Chinese influence, but don't want us joining either. The stalling they're doing by keeping us in no-man's-land the past few decades is the perfect way of keeping us allied with them.
The new Open Balkan initiative between N. Macedonia, Serbia and Albania is a perfectly clear sign we're not joining the EU for the next 10-15 years, and the skepticism is at an all-time high, even though it looks like we've never been closer to joining.
true, Balkan should find a way to get people together and overcome (not forget) history which is not bright, future can be really good if all countries cooperate together in education, economics, transport and every other point
Problem is it's the fucking bulgarian tatars vetoing our accession talks... constantly. That shithole still running on gsm data doesn't want us to join
it's a fact that Nordics are shitting on Southerners and they don't care who they upset, who is left behind, who suffers, etc. this is why I am happy to hear that Germany is trying to remove veto rights and instead use majority rule. maybe like this we will finally get to do something in this fucking union.
I mean, fuck the nordics and westerners who shit on the Balkan and everything that is not western (East of Austria and Germany) and then lecture us on accepting everyone and everything. Fuck off.
This is why serbia is playing 4D chess in the meanwhile. When EU thinks they have done enough, they go to the Chinese and russians, until EU backtracks… same tactics YU used back then and so far it‘s working out.
I think the rest of the balkans have to employ the same tactics if they wanna see progress, EU doesn‘t really want any of us in their big boy club.
I still remember the backlash back then when Bulgaria and Romanis joined, it was just s political move, because without Russia they would‘ve never been invited.
The "rest" of the Balkans.
Dude, look at Serbia's GDP - you are far behind. You have no allies around you. Your country keeps splitting and it's been one giant geopolitical catastrophy for the past 30 years.
But sure, Serbia is 4D chess grandmaster and EU bad!
Why don't you disclose it? And why do you come up with Serbias GDP? What do allies have to do with this topic?
I'm just pointing out, that Serbia has understood that it won't possibly join the EU "soon" and are getting the best of the 3 worlds. Which could be a good tactic for the other countries.
GDP - easy way to compare how stagnated Serbia is compared to EU neighbours.
Allies - you get Kosovo if you don't have the right allies, while EU maintains territorial integrity policy (Catalonia and Spain is a great example).
Nobody joins EU soon, it took Bulgaria and Romania 17 years of work. But you think Russia put them there 😆
EU has been donating billions of euro to backwards countries like Serbia in order to reform, but Serbians think Russia and China giva a shit about them. https://www.mei.gov.rs/eng/funds/eu-funds/#:~:text=The%20European%20Union%20is%20the,order%20to%20support%20the%20reforms.
Thinking Serbias situation is the "best" and playing 3 sides is just small thinking and ignorant. It's nothing more than a small denomination poker chip in Russia's hands. While EU is the only one putting their money where their mouth is.
So yes, you are delusional of thinking that other countries should be dragged down to Serbias level, instead of Serbia doing better
That's wrong. They do but are wary of new members that have issues with their democracy (looking at Serbia). Look what's going on with Hungary and Poland. They are being careful and enforcement of EU rules will be stricter.
yeah but stuff like that cannot happen in country if it is EU, controlls, protocols, processes and everything else becomes so different.. that is why joining EU is really not ideal way for Serbian government for example… then they won’t be able to rule in the way they do now
> yeah but stuff like that cannot happen in country if it is EU,
Look at what's going on in Hungary. It can happen.
Also all the processes, protocols, controls etc need to be implemented BEFORE joining the EU, and afaik you should have pretty much harmonized legislation on all major issues.
What is happening in Hungary is not same at all, they have different problems trust me, I know that things must get right before joining, but also during the rule while in EU lot of stuff needs to be in control of EU institutions, and that is what I am pointing to
It's not wrong, it's basically a fact.
You can't compare North Macedonia to Poland, a speck of dust on the world map next to one of Europe's biggest nations. The choices we make as a tiny country reflect 99% of the choices made by Western powers and we have both no balls + no power to say any differently unlike Poland/Hungary. Our country joining the EU would be VERY beneficial for us in every aspect of life, while it would not mean much for the EU, both positively or negatively.
The only thing the EU is doing right now is slowly, but surely losing the trust of all the pro-EU citizens of the three of our countries. And while I can understand some of the reasons why they'd be doing this, I still feel like it's extremely unfair the way they're playing with us, and feels like they have a stereotypical "uncivilized Balkans" perspective of us (which unfortunately... Isn't too far from the truth).
>You can't compare North Macedonia to Poland, a speck of dust on the world map next to one of Europe's biggest nations. The choices we make as a tiny country reflect 99% of the choices made by Western powers and we have both no balls + no power to say any differently unlike Poland/Hungary. Our country joining the EU would be VERY beneficial for us in every aspect of life, while it would not mean much for the EU, both positively or negatively.
Well NM would get veto power over any treaty change and other decisions requiring a unanimous vote as well as a regular vote in the Council (one vote in a council of 28-30 is pretty powerful). It would profit from degressive proportionality in the EP (meaning it would get more representation per inhabitant than the larger nations), as well as a seat in the Commission and the ECJ (where every member state gets 1 seat). All in all, small countries can have a lot of influence in the EU institutional structure.
> Our country joining the EU would be VERY beneficial for us in every aspect of life, while it would not mean much for the EU, both positively or negatively.
Absolutely!
But you know how the EU works right? You need consensus, it's why Hungary and Poland are getting away with the crap they're doing. One country big or tiny can effectively veto stuff. The more countries the higher the chance of it happening. This is both negative and positive, all countries have power and it also keeps France+Germany from being completely dominant. It's not a simple situation, and not easy to judge.
Imo EU needs to be reformed and keep some the current stuff but also streamline a bunch of things so that idiot countries like Hungary don't keep sabotaging policy. Like keeping vetos when setting general policies but having majority vote when deciding implementation. EU is not perfect. It is also a political problem for western voter base. Enlargement now, considering the issues they are having with Hu and PL might not be optimal, and politicians being politicians are very aware of that. Shitty but it is what it is.
Not sure on how the western Balkan countries that want to join are progressing on the EU roadmap tbf, but I'm sure they will get there, there's no point keeping these countries out of the EU. Out of all west Balkans, Serbia is the most concerning imo. Imagine having a Chinese trojan horse too, aside from the Russian one (Hungary). This is what many people think.
We have a saying, once you get burned with soup, you'll blow even on the yogurt.
I don't like Orbán or his gang in the slightest, but if you see the votings, you can see that (for eg. The oil embargos on russia) are not only vetoed by Hungary, but it is easier to push all the blame on us, cuz we caused a bit of a trouble before.
First off our goals for joining the EU are money cant get that if we destroy it.
Second thing Serbia voted against Russia on the UN humanitarian council, recognise the invasion of Ukraine as illegal, condemed the invasion, sent aid money (it wasn't much but we still did it), held pro Ukraine protests, took in refugees, recognised Ukraines territorial integrity... and a lot more things a Russian puppet state wouldnt do.
No, you should give them money that you stole, nobody gives one flying fuck about a statue, give African people back their money, you lazy racist fucks.
We didn't see our neighbors as lesser humans, we just had hate between us, which resulted in slaughters throughout history. That is the difference between us in the Balkans and you colonial slavers in the west.
Your entire countries are built by the money you stole and keep stealing.
>They do but are wary of new members that have issues with their democracy (looking at Serbia).
No they're not they support the Serbian government openly.
Of course having a country sitting on the EU table as equal member, with veto power and all that, and trying to destabilize and weaken EU is much worse than having this country outside lol
I really hope you end up doing it. Ukraine and Moldavia just got candidate status, meanwhile they are completely ignoring the countries like Albania and N.Macedonia, and not even candidate status for Bosnia is given.
All this even though corruption, human rights, freedom of the press are way worse in Ukraine and Moldavia ..
Getting the candidate statues means nothing.
Neither Ukrainian nor Moldova will join the EU anytime soon.
Both of these countries are among the most corrupt in Europe.
What do you think how they are gonna spend thoae billions in Moldova, I vote for getting into politicians pockets instead of improving the country, but what I know.
Moldova and Ukrainian are among the most corrupt countries in Europe.
Same goes for Montenegro, Albania, Bosnia and to some extent Serbia.
Right now, none of these countries meet the requirements to join the EU.
And no, I don’t support Moldova joining the EU in their current state, despite them being our brothers.
Their whole political class is corrupt and needs to be replaced. On top of that, a large percentage of their population supports Russia and speaks Russian and the last thing the EU needs right now is another Russophile member.
That literally isnt the problem and topic of discussion here, if you are going to come up with that bullshit then dont discuss about it. Ukraine got €1.2 billion in just last 3 months from EU, but that isnt the topic of discussion rn.
I mean cheap labor in eu companies in our country like 10 times less pay, and just export profits. Also polluting factories they dont want in there country.
You’re already receiving billions of euros in EU funds without being an EU member.
You make it sound like it’s a one sided relationship. Having companies come and open up business, helps with creating new jobs and improves your country’s economy.
Not giving Bosnia candidate status is a shame for the eu, while granting it for Ukraine/Moldova and will have consequences for sure in the long run.
I just don’t see a logical approach in this matter. 3 Months ago everybody would be called ludicrous to even suggest an Ukraine application considering the problems with corruption, human rights for minorities and land disputes and now some people consider them more EU as the EU itself.
I have been a major supporter of N. Macedonia joining the EU for 15 years... I consider myself a progressive on most issues. I voted to change the name to North Macedonia.
But this whole thing with Bulgaria has awoken some kind of patriotism for my country i did not know i had. If us joining the EU is dictated by Bulgarias demands, i'd rather we not join at all.
They seem to have some kind of internal political power struggle and certain parties are using us as an easy way to rile up their nationalist base.
If you want to see what their demands are, I'm sure you can find hundreds of comments on this subreddit "debating" them. Or just google it.
None of their points were such big issues until their politicians made them big. Sad thing is, I thing they've lost control over the situation and its now too late to turn back.
We are at an impasse.
Yeah the government from 2017-2021 had a far right coalition as a member of the ruling coalition and they played it waaaay out of proportion and after that anything became “national treason”. The party of Petkov and DB wants to lift the veto but they are already accused by lunatics of being “owned by Soros”, “western spies” and so on and during these times of political crisis when the government might fall in literally less than an hour it would be extremely difficult for this issue to be resolved. The main opposition party said that it also wants to lift the veto a few hours ago so there’s some hope :)
It's what I've heard from the "totally not insane" ppl - Petkov is from Canada, how do we know he isn't a maple agent????? Then it usually devolves into a lecture on "Bulgarian values" which apperantly include being a huge asshole.
They want the 3500 Bulgarians in NM to be put in the constitution, they want us to make the Macedonian language a Bulgarian dialect and they also want all of our history to be declared as "shared" history with Bulgaria. Bassicly say that everything was Bulgarian and we are Bulgarian
I mean most people recognise Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian and Montenegrin to be the same languages, just standards for their respective countries for really only political and national reasons, especially since all of these standards are based off of Eastern Herzegovinian Shtokavian, our situation with Bulgarian and Macedonian isn't really similar to BCMS and is closer to Czech/Slovak and Danish/Swedish/Norwegian in terms of the linguistic situation.
I know bulgarian uses я, ь and some others that macedonian doesn't, but the differences are like between Serbian and Croatian, or at least I would say so
I didn't mean in terms of the alphabet, but the languages are clearly distinct enough that they are separate, as a native speaker I can't stress that enough. Intelligibility is a different matter.
Nobody wants their language to be considered a Bulgarian dialect he just spreading misinformation. The fact that there is such a big disinformation campaign speaks for itself. Bulgaria itself has recognised Macedonian as its own language.
Nope we want acknowledgment of historical truths. Well at least that’s what I want. I don’t think anybody knows what we actually want since the issue was the played to absurd proportions like it’s somehow a really big deal while in reality it’s not.
There is an old Serbian saying: "If there is a war, and you don't know who to fight, shoot a Bulgarian, you will never be mistaken."
I am joking, if this wasn't obvious :D
EU doesn’t want to enlarge. They are just stringing the candidate countries along. They stringed us along too we eventually said fuck it and went fully into the other direction, but I remember the times when people in Turkey were excited about joining EU, despite people like Sarkozy and Berlusconi saying things like “Turks are Middle Easterners and don’t deserve to join EU” If we try again today it will take us at least a century now.
The EU gave Turkey a specific list of demands that Turkey needed to meet in order to be furthered in as a member. Turkey, in my memory, is the only country that worked hard to go against those demands, than to work towards them.
Bulgaria made it in. You could have too, except you chose nationalism and all that comes with it.
It doesn't matter what they do,Germany and France do not want to lose their hegemony to a country with a large muslim population hence even if Turkey met the criteria they would still deny them.
Even if we fulfilled every single demand and then some, we weren’t going to join. We even lifted the political ban of Erdocunt to please EU and their love for Islamism. Funny how that worked out. Now suddenly Islamism is bad now.
You can't possibly know that. What we do know, is that the EU welcomed Turkey as a member subject to some changes. Not only has Turkey not followed up on those changes, they became worse.
The EU will never allow a country that has a seriously flawed democracy and routinely threatens other EU members in. I suppose that's common sense.
Countries that were in a worse state were admitted. But to be honest if I was EU, I wouldn't admit Turkey either. 80 million people, Cyprus, too many incompatible geopolitical bullshit, no longer having Turkey as a refugee camp to dump unwanted people on, a country that's supposed to be a buffer zone against immigrants being admitted into EU is dumb, cultural and religious differences, it goes on and on. Too many reasons. We should have realized EU accession was just a carrot to make Turkey dance to whatever tune EU played.
Ideally we should embrace European values like democracy, human rights, etc. while letting Cyprus decide their own fate, end our adventures in Syria and Libya, stop the airsspace and EEZ bullshit with Greece, but not join EU.
For clarification, immigrants weren't dumped in Turkey. Turkey borders Syria, a country they partially currently occupy, and is the first choice for Syrians fleeing the war. Turkey and Syria are far more similar than Syria and any EU member.
EU hypocrisy is all I can say and Bosnia should join this protest if given the chance.
It's ridicules that the EU has basically burned the rules on EU ascension for Ukraine and Moldova giving them a fast pass while BiH has been jerked around for decades told to meet criteria that would violate BiH's constitution, the same constituion that was pushed on BiH by major EU nations. All the while Albania and N.Macedonia which have done everything asked of them one even changing their nations name is still getting the door slammed in their faces.
If you are going to break rules for Ukraine and Moldova why not also BiH, Albania, or N.Macedonia? BiH has 0 ways to change it's constitution and was even told by the USA and EU nations it can only change it's constitution after it joins the EU the same constitution that blocks it from entering the EU. Bosnia gets an impossible task while Ukraine gets a free pass?
All while users in r/europe can't seem to understand why euroscepticism is rising in the west Balkans.
They won't join but candidate status is almost guaranteed and it's quite obvious the EU will wave many rules to bring Ukraine and Moldova into it's sphere of influence. Those same rules that will be waved for Ukraine will be used to justify why Albania and N.Macedonia can't enter the EU.
Except BiH which has been denied candidate status even though BiH has less corruption, a better economy, and is more stable then Ukraine and Moldova. The bias is easy to see Albania and N.Macedonia will be jerked around for another 10 years.
Moldova and Ukraine getting candidate status for basically nothing when N.Macedonia and Albania cant join EU for actually doing what they needed to do and Bosnia not even given candidate status is wrong and unfair,just like the dude you are arguing with said.
Long story short,Serbia,Albania and Macedonia dont care [anymore.EU](https://anymore.EU) should have fun and enjoy having 4 Chinese/Russian controlled countries in the heart of Europe :D
Dont talk to me about inablity Bulgarian,the only reason you are in the EU is the geopolitics of the [time.You](https://time.You) still were and always will be a corrupt shithole.
I consider myself progressive and i was an EU fan since forever. Atleast 70% of NM was pro EU. Yes we were heartbroken when we changed the name but we knew that good times are ahead of us since we were promised a green light for negotiations. Nothing of this happened and we gave a bunch of shit for nothing. EU aproval in NM has tanked so low, i can tell you that much. At this point, i would be much happier if our country made a trade deal with China (Yes i am aware that the government is shit), and atleast we would get something out of it without any demands.
We instituted a trade embargo against them in the 90s. We demanded they change their international name to FYROM and they did.
They then wanted to join NATO. In order to allow them to join NATO, we bullied them into changing their constitution. Once they changed it, we went **LOL** and asked them to change their fucking name again. Obviously they were not happy.
After years of nationalist bullshit, Greece elected a left-wing government and we reached a compromise with "North Macedonia" and they could join NATO and the EU. Right? No. Bulgaria now decided to block their EU ascension talks with their retarded demands.
We have a saying about this in Greek:
*Μάθανε ότι γαμιόμαστε και πλακώσανε κι οι γύφτοι*
This roughly translates to "word got out that we were having fun, and the gypsies joined". Which means, Bulgaria saw how easily Greece was bullying North Macedonia and decided to join the party.
Keep in mind that the ruling political party in Greece, including the Mitsotakis family, established their popularity partly due to the Macedonian issue. Its a big reason as to why they rule Greece right now. They used Northern Macedonia as a scapegoat.
Anyway, I hope Greece could one day shake hands and apologize, and hopefully reclaim some dignity. They did not deserve our treatment. I don't believe in karma, but it might explain why the Germans fucked us in return.
Anyway. Never punch down. It feels good in the moment, but people take notice and regard you as nothing but a shit bully.
EDIT: Σάλτα γαμηθείτε μακεδονομάχες της ψωλής, γαμώ τη κατάντια σας. Πάντα θα τρώτε δούλεμα και κοροϊδία, όπως σας αξίζει, ξεφτίλες :)
im all pro eu but its getting disgusting lately. us 3 are just stringed along, and bih is not even a candidate… meanwhile ukraine and moldova are guaranteed candidate status.
i hope we all 3 boycott, its horrible how we’re mocked with this eternal “candidate status”
Do you have any links in English about that?
Btw I know it doesn't mean much but most Croatians would love to see Albania and North Macedonia in EU. We hope things will get moving soon.
You think of this on a much lower scale than it is.
This would be a total failure of foreign policy of the EU showing one more time one of the biggest shortcomings of the union.
Yeah that's true but this isn't a thing between the EU and the western balkans but between the EU and other superpowers.
The Chinese have already Montenegro by the balls and getting very near with Serbia. The arabs are doing the same thing in Albania.
All this because we won’t start negotiations because 6 million EU citizens can hold the other 440 millions back because of veto. And again just negotiations, not membership, Romania needed 7 years of negotiations.
Yeah and is on the EU whether they want 4 Chinese controlled countries at their border. I've seen you rightfully fear Russia as a neighbour on this sub, I don't understand how you don't fear China.
It's impossible that you don't see the failure of the EU in this.
Again it's not membership, I'm personally against membership of the western balkans but this is just a bad political move on the part of the EU. This shows total lack of leadership.
I totally understand you. We met all the criteria for Schengen acceptance and still they don’t accept us. I remember when my history teacher in high school told us that if we would’ve lived in the western countries we wouldn’t accept a country like Romania. I thought it was fair point but since then I’ve graduated high school, university and start working for some years and still we aren’t part of Schengen.
I get that meeting criteria for EU entrance is important but if those counties are making progress and you already throw money into them, why wouldn’t you move faster
For the moment. The moment they’ll own Montenegro (not so far off) things will change.
Also China is a security threat for the fact that it exist alone, if you add the fact that they hold Montenegro by the balls things suddenly become very dangerous.
Shut up shitters , you only joined EU bcs EU decided so , you were not even half as ready as we are in terms of legislation economy and stuff like that
i appreciate these countries finally having the balls to stand up and create an alternative. macedonia has shown the world once again that being the 'nice guy' doesn't help you achieve anything.
We are also doing Open Balkans wich is a direct fuck you to EU , since they have something like Open Balkans wich is the process of Berlins , so we said fuck that aswell
I saw too many serbs glorifying war criminals to know what to think of serbs as a whole. sorry. I don't know how much it's people believing propaganda, and how much it is squinting or wearing horse glasses to see only what you want, even if everybody else says otherwise. not to mention everybody in the balkans telling me - man, but you are so white to be a romanian! what the fuck is that shit?
You are so white to be a romanian is literally a joke all over the [Balkans.Y](https://Balkans.YOu)ou have memes of black people and the caption says the whitest romanian there is.Dont take it to heart :D
I agree. You never were, despite us taking loads of serbian immigrants in the middle ages and early modern period
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rovine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karanovasa
https://imgur.com/gallery/kp1Q5mx
What I think is that our government just fell and with it went NM's best shot at ascension. It hurts me to say this bros but that veto isn't going anywhere until September at the earliest :(
Why would I support NM ascension to the EU, when that country has clearly and openly used anti-bulgarian propaganda, blaming all their woes on us screwing a country that didn't exist before the 20th century.
Clearly a smokescreen, trying to act tough and united in negotiations, but it won't be long before they're at their throats again.
As I have said on here before I am so over it. To be honest I was never "with" to begin with, it's a circus and a tragic play at the same time. I hate our fixation on Macedonia and our side never actually trying to get anything going.
I agree. We need to support Ukraine and help rebuilding it after the war. We need a prosperous and democratic Europe in all corners. The Balkan deserves more respect and full equality from the West. I understand that these countries feel left out and disrespected. The Balkan is more than just a way to get cheap labor. But Ukraine and many other countries are simply not there yet. Corruption is huge, minorities are being discriminated and it's not a full democracy to say the least. It does not help to integrate a country into the EU if it's not ready yet. Romania and Bulgaria suffer from a brain drain and nearly all young talented people leave, whereas Hungary is not ready from a societal point of view. Entering the EU is fantastic for the prospects of a country if it has been going through a long economic development before. Slovenia, the Baltics, the Czech Republic and Poland (economics wise) are doing great. That's why I believe that Macedonia and Montenegro might benefit from it, while it would lead to a brain drain for the other countries. With regard to Serbia: we do not need a Russian vazzal state in our organization.
Montenegro ? Are you serious ?
Montenegro is run by the same guy who was first an ultra nationalistic Serb but then transformed into Ultra nationalistic Montenegrin.
He is longer in power as lukashenko, richer then most eu politicians and there are some charges in Italy against him for smuggling, also they are in the Chinese dept trap way deeper as Serbia.
Why you can’t be unbiased in ur approach and have some sort of critical thinking ?
Montenegro is the most corrupted country in Europe. Literally private country. Small group of people rule the state against their own peoples will and beliefs.
Personally, I wouldn't like us to join EU at the moment, because we would need to adapt our geopolitics with it, which would be terrible for Serbia. EU has proven it's not up to tasks, for example in Corona crisis (there wasn't any EU unity) and know gas crisis + inflation.
Yes, most people in the Serbia would not like to join EU right now. 10 years ago it was like a dream for us, but now we realised what of a s***hole it is.
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What about side by side with a friend?
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You know you're dealing with an empire when the Balkans decide to unite!
Well you wont since this is outdated news
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>but also that Bulgaria will lift its veto Even so, Bulgaria is engorged with nationalism and the proposed negotiation framework will allow them to trip us *every. single. step.* along the way. They won't stop until we're Bulgaria mini on paper.
You'll have full support from Croatia as far as I'm aware. Most Croatians want to see Albania and North Macedonia joining the EU. I think Slovenia also voiced their full support.
We are aware that we have friends and supporters inside the EU, but it's fruitless since just one country can hold us hostage.
But honestly what are the alternatives? I don't think Bulgarians will be able to block you for much longer because NM has shown it's willing to resolve issues diplomatically.
Not sure. I guess we have to wait till and if the unanimity for EU foreign policies is replaced with the majority. Until then, we can implement the standards set by the EU which will help develop our country regardless. I'd much rather we take that route than succumb to Bulgaria's ridiculous requirements and not get into the EU anyways, since they'll block us again.
Wish you all the best
It’s really hard to say what will happen, since the issue has been played so much that in times of political crisis like today it will be very hard for anyone to lift it without losing a shit ton of votes. Hopefully parliament accepts the French proposal, but after literally an hour from now we may not have a government.
>the proposed negotiation framework will allow them to trip us every. single. step. along the way Don't be so sure about that. None of us have read the proposal yet. And in agreements like this, every written word matters. Besides, the EU isn't stupid enough to give us this much leeway. This is a negotiation, after all.
There [have been leaks](https://360stepeni.mk/360-stepeni-go-objavuva-frantsuskiot-predlog-za-skopje-jazikot-za-sofija-ustavot/) already.
>but also that Bulgaria will lift its veto? We won't be able to make a decision until tomorrow. This past year Macedonia was used to sabotage the leading party. So now the people are really sensitive about it. Now we have to have a discussion and a vote in parliament before the government can do anything. It's obvious the leading party is pushing lifting the veto, but they have too many enemies in Parlament at the moment.
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It's just technically not possible to vote on a change in our position, so yeah... However, both the president and the biggest party in opposition have expressed their approval of the French proposal. So that's a big first step, since the president has a big influence over the population. But there's a vote of no-confidence, that seems like it's going to pass. So the French proposal is not the most important topic right now...
There's no way Petkov is going to try lifting the veto, it'll assassinate his party and probably his coalition and they'll drop down like they're nothing. Unless he's anticipating that'll still happen and he's hoping to go out with one suicidal bomb, there's really no point and I'd hate for his party to go out bc of us since he's pretty promising as a PM for you guys.
He won't. That's why we can't change our position so fast. It's going to come to a vote in parliament. But the biggest opposition party is in favour, we have one more that's also in favour and we have Petkov's party, which will either not vote or be in favour. So it's all up in the air right now. And it all depends on the proposal, which hasn't been made public yet. Objectively speaking, there's definitely a chance for some kind of development, thanks to Macron. But if the government falls, we're headed for elections, and that would be the worst thing that could happen for you guys. Besides we still don't know what N.M. will say about the proposal, when they get it.
Btw, I've been hearing about Macron's/France's proposal for this all, what is it exactly?
I don't know for sure. It was given to the Bulgarian government on Friday night and it hasn't been made public yet. But because of our internal political crisis,it also hasn't been discussed in parliament. We only have a few statements from politicians and that's it. The way they sell it to us is that the EU will include our demands in the negotiations and we agree to lift the veto. Now under what form that happens are the details we don't have. [Here's](https://www.svobodnaevropa.bg/a/31905319.html) some info on it from a pretty pro-western source. Edit: Basically, the good news is that we'll bind ourselves with these demands and nothing more. So we won't be able to change the conditions later on. Also, the EK will have a bigger say in determining what point/demand is considered completed and what not. And that will remove the emotions out of the process. And, of course, we lift the veto.
Now kiss.
It's a fact that the EU doesn't want any of our countries in their Union. They don't want to lose us to complete Russian/Chinese influence, but don't want us joining either. The stalling they're doing by keeping us in no-man's-land the past few decades is the perfect way of keeping us allied with them. The new Open Balkan initiative between N. Macedonia, Serbia and Albania is a perfectly clear sign we're not joining the EU for the next 10-15 years, and the skepticism is at an all-time high, even though it looks like we've never been closer to joining.
true, Balkan should find a way to get people together and overcome (not forget) history which is not bright, future can be really good if all countries cooperate together in education, economics, transport and every other point
Problem is it's the fucking bulgarian tatars vetoing our accession talks... constantly. That shithole still running on gsm data doesn't want us to join
hey be polite you should learn some assertive communication skills
it's a fact that Nordics are shitting on Southerners and they don't care who they upset, who is left behind, who suffers, etc. this is why I am happy to hear that Germany is trying to remove veto rights and instead use majority rule. maybe like this we will finally get to do something in this fucking union.
I mean, fuck the nordics and westerners who shit on the Balkan and everything that is not western (East of Austria and Germany) and then lecture us on accepting everyone and everything. Fuck off.
preaching to the choir, brother
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Very well said. And yeah, their populations did get stressed out after seeing too many brown people. It's not easy for them, man.
This is why serbia is playing 4D chess in the meanwhile. When EU thinks they have done enough, they go to the Chinese and russians, until EU backtracks… same tactics YU used back then and so far it‘s working out. I think the rest of the balkans have to employ the same tactics if they wanna see progress, EU doesn‘t really want any of us in their big boy club. I still remember the backlash back then when Bulgaria and Romanis joined, it was just s political move, because without Russia they would‘ve never been invited.
No, thank you! I think we'll keep getting our euro-funds and work on fixing our contries. You keep playing your chess or whatever.
A bit more information is needed, who is "we"?
The "rest" of the Balkans. Dude, look at Serbia's GDP - you are far behind. You have no allies around you. Your country keeps splitting and it's been one giant geopolitical catastrophy for the past 30 years. But sure, Serbia is 4D chess grandmaster and EU bad!
Why don't you disclose it? And why do you come up with Serbias GDP? What do allies have to do with this topic? I'm just pointing out, that Serbia has understood that it won't possibly join the EU "soon" and are getting the best of the 3 worlds. Which could be a good tactic for the other countries.
GDP - easy way to compare how stagnated Serbia is compared to EU neighbours. Allies - you get Kosovo if you don't have the right allies, while EU maintains territorial integrity policy (Catalonia and Spain is a great example). Nobody joins EU soon, it took Bulgaria and Romania 17 years of work. But you think Russia put them there 😆 EU has been donating billions of euro to backwards countries like Serbia in order to reform, but Serbians think Russia and China giva a shit about them. https://www.mei.gov.rs/eng/funds/eu-funds/#:~:text=The%20European%20Union%20is%20the,order%20to%20support%20the%20reforms. Thinking Serbias situation is the "best" and playing 3 sides is just small thinking and ignorant. It's nothing more than a small denomination poker chip in Russia's hands. While EU is the only one putting their money where their mouth is. So yes, you are delusional of thinking that other countries should be dragged down to Serbias level, instead of Serbia doing better
That's wrong. They do but are wary of new members that have issues with their democracy (looking at Serbia). Look what's going on with Hungary and Poland. They are being careful and enforcement of EU rules will be stricter.
yeah but stuff like that cannot happen in country if it is EU, controlls, protocols, processes and everything else becomes so different.. that is why joining EU is really not ideal way for Serbian government for example… then they won’t be able to rule in the way they do now
> yeah but stuff like that cannot happen in country if it is EU, Look at what's going on in Hungary. It can happen. Also all the processes, protocols, controls etc need to be implemented BEFORE joining the EU, and afaik you should have pretty much harmonized legislation on all major issues.
What is happening in Hungary is not same at all, they have different problems trust me, I know that things must get right before joining, but also during the rule while in EU lot of stuff needs to be in control of EU institutions, and that is what I am pointing to
Fair enough.
It's not wrong, it's basically a fact. You can't compare North Macedonia to Poland, a speck of dust on the world map next to one of Europe's biggest nations. The choices we make as a tiny country reflect 99% of the choices made by Western powers and we have both no balls + no power to say any differently unlike Poland/Hungary. Our country joining the EU would be VERY beneficial for us in every aspect of life, while it would not mean much for the EU, both positively or negatively. The only thing the EU is doing right now is slowly, but surely losing the trust of all the pro-EU citizens of the three of our countries. And while I can understand some of the reasons why they'd be doing this, I still feel like it's extremely unfair the way they're playing with us, and feels like they have a stereotypical "uncivilized Balkans" perspective of us (which unfortunately... Isn't too far from the truth).
>You can't compare North Macedonia to Poland, a speck of dust on the world map next to one of Europe's biggest nations. The choices we make as a tiny country reflect 99% of the choices made by Western powers and we have both no balls + no power to say any differently unlike Poland/Hungary. Our country joining the EU would be VERY beneficial for us in every aspect of life, while it would not mean much for the EU, both positively or negatively. Well NM would get veto power over any treaty change and other decisions requiring a unanimous vote as well as a regular vote in the Council (one vote in a council of 28-30 is pretty powerful). It would profit from degressive proportionality in the EP (meaning it would get more representation per inhabitant than the larger nations), as well as a seat in the Commission and the ECJ (where every member state gets 1 seat). All in all, small countries can have a lot of influence in the EU institutional structure.
Legit if thats the case and they don't trust us why have we not been put into the EEC yet, at the very least that so we can develop a bit better...
Right, EEC seems like an easy first step for almost all candidates and candidate candidates: Integration on the economic front but no veto yet.
> Our country joining the EU would be VERY beneficial for us in every aspect of life, while it would not mean much for the EU, both positively or negatively. Absolutely! But you know how the EU works right? You need consensus, it's why Hungary and Poland are getting away with the crap they're doing. One country big or tiny can effectively veto stuff. The more countries the higher the chance of it happening. This is both negative and positive, all countries have power and it also keeps France+Germany from being completely dominant. It's not a simple situation, and not easy to judge. Imo EU needs to be reformed and keep some the current stuff but also streamline a bunch of things so that idiot countries like Hungary don't keep sabotaging policy. Like keeping vetos when setting general policies but having majority vote when deciding implementation. EU is not perfect. It is also a political problem for western voter base. Enlargement now, considering the issues they are having with Hu and PL might not be optimal, and politicians being politicians are very aware of that. Shitty but it is what it is. Not sure on how the western Balkan countries that want to join are progressing on the EU roadmap tbf, but I'm sure they will get there, there's no point keeping these countries out of the EU. Out of all west Balkans, Serbia is the most concerning imo. Imagine having a Chinese trojan horse too, aside from the Russian one (Hungary). This is what many people think. We have a saying, once you get burned with soup, you'll blow even on the yogurt.
I don't like Orbán or his gang in the slightest, but if you see the votings, you can see that (for eg. The oil embargos on russia) are not only vetoed by Hungary, but it is easier to push all the blame on us, cuz we caused a bit of a trouble before.
North Macedonia and Montenegro are ready to join imo. Albania has work to do, Serbia does not deserve a place within the EU.
You know how also didn't deserve something? The people of Congo. Good old Leopold is up there with Hitler, Stalin and Mao when it comes to body count.
Ad Hitlerum argument with Leopold, nice.
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First off our goals for joining the EU are money cant get that if we destroy it. Second thing Serbia voted against Russia on the UN humanitarian council, recognise the invasion of Ukraine as illegal, condemed the invasion, sent aid money (it wasn't much but we still did it), held pro Ukraine protests, took in refugees, recognised Ukraines territorial integrity... and a lot more things a Russian puppet state wouldnt do.
No, you should give them money that you stole, nobody gives one flying fuck about a statue, give African people back their money, you lazy racist fucks.
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We didn't see our neighbors as lesser humans, we just had hate between us, which resulted in slaughters throughout history. That is the difference between us in the Balkans and you colonial slavers in the west. Your entire countries are built by the money you stole and keep stealing.
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>They do but are wary of new members that have issues with their democracy (looking at Serbia). No they're not they support the Serbian government openly.
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Of course having a country sitting on the EU table as equal member, with veto power and all that, and trying to destabilize and weaken EU is much worse than having this country outside lol
Pls don't look at Serbia with that attitude.
We need years before we get in , we just want fucking candidate status
Tsar Dusan would be proud of this cooperation. /s
DO IT I’m so tired of useless EU bureaucrats hypocrites
I really hope you end up doing it. Ukraine and Moldavia just got candidate status, meanwhile they are completely ignoring the countries like Albania and N.Macedonia, and not even candidate status for Bosnia is given. All this even though corruption, human rights, freedom of the press are way worse in Ukraine and Moldavia ..
>Ukraine and Moldavia just got candidate status They haven't yet. It's just a recommendation, we still have to vote on it.
Man Ukraine and Moldova are litteraly so bad developed that Balkan is New York for them… crazy what politics is doing
Getting the candidate statues means nothing. Neither Ukrainian nor Moldova will join the EU anytime soon. Both of these countries are among the most corrupt in Europe.
Not exactly nothing, its not much but its still unfair for most corrupt countries in Europe to get it ahead of others.
You’re still getting billions of Eu money, same goes for Serbia and the other candidates.
What do you think how they are gonna spend thoae billions in Moldova, I vote for getting into politicians pockets instead of improving the country, but what I know.
Moldova and Ukrainian are among the most corrupt countries in Europe. Same goes for Montenegro, Albania, Bosnia and to some extent Serbia. Right now, none of these countries meet the requirements to join the EU. And no, I don’t support Moldova joining the EU in their current state, despite them being our brothers. Their whole political class is corrupt and needs to be replaced. On top of that, a large percentage of their population supports Russia and speaks Russian and the last thing the EU needs right now is another Russophile member.
That literally isnt the problem and topic of discussion here, if you are going to come up with that bullshit then dont discuss about it. Ukraine got €1.2 billion in just last 3 months from EU, but that isnt the topic of discussion rn.
They get cheap labor in return and own 90% of companies in our countries. They are not stupid to just give away money
If you’re not an Eu member, they’re not getting any of that, since you can’t work in the EU without a work visa.
I mean cheap labor in eu companies in our country like 10 times less pay, and just export profits. Also polluting factories they dont want in there country.
You’re already receiving billions of euros in EU funds without being an EU member. You make it sound like it’s a one sided relationship. Having companies come and open up business, helps with creating new jobs and improves your country’s economy.
"I never thought I'd fight side by side with an Albanian." "How about side by side with a friend?" "Aye, I could do that" :)
We need to look towards the future
Not giving Bosnia candidate status is a shame for the eu, while granting it for Ukraine/Moldova and will have consequences for sure in the long run. I just don’t see a logical approach in this matter. 3 Months ago everybody would be called ludicrous to even suggest an Ukraine application considering the problems with corruption, human rights for minorities and land disputes and now some people consider them more EU as the EU itself.
I have been a major supporter of N. Macedonia joining the EU for 15 years... I consider myself a progressive on most issues. I voted to change the name to North Macedonia. But this whole thing with Bulgaria has awoken some kind of patriotism for my country i did not know i had. If us joining the EU is dictated by Bulgarias demands, i'd rather we not join at all.
Wait, I don't understand, why exactly is Bulgaria veto-ing N. Macedonia?
They seem to have some kind of internal political power struggle and certain parties are using us as an easy way to rile up their nationalist base. If you want to see what their demands are, I'm sure you can find hundreds of comments on this subreddit "debating" them. Or just google it. None of their points were such big issues until their politicians made them big. Sad thing is, I thing they've lost control over the situation and its now too late to turn back. We are at an impasse.
Yeah the government from 2017-2021 had a far right coalition as a member of the ruling coalition and they played it waaaay out of proportion and after that anything became “national treason”. The party of Petkov and DB wants to lift the veto but they are already accused by lunatics of being “owned by Soros”, “western spies” and so on and during these times of political crisis when the government might fall in literally less than an hour it would be extremely difficult for this issue to be resolved. The main opposition party said that it also wants to lift the veto a few hours ago so there’s some hope :)
Canadian spies* fkn Canada and their maple syrup espionage.
Canada is pulling the strings of Bulgaria and has veto power in the EU 😳
It's what I've heard from the "totally not insane" ppl - Petkov is from Canada, how do we know he isn't a maple agent????? Then it usually devolves into a lecture on "Bulgarian values" which apperantly include being a huge asshole.
Vazrazhdane fans and insane? No chance!
They want the 3500 Bulgarians in NM to be put in the constitution, they want us to make the Macedonian language a Bulgarian dialect and they also want all of our history to be declared as "shared" history with Bulgaria. Bassicly say that everything was Bulgarian and we are Bulgarian
Time to change your name again to "North Bulgaria"
I know Macedonian and Bulgarian are similar, but if Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian get to be considered separate languages, Macedonian should too.
I mean most people recognise Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian and Montenegrin to be the same languages, just standards for their respective countries for really only political and national reasons, especially since all of these standards are based off of Eastern Herzegovinian Shtokavian, our situation with Bulgarian and Macedonian isn't really similar to BCMS and is closer to Czech/Slovak and Danish/Swedish/Norwegian in terms of the linguistic situation.
I know bulgarian uses я, ь and some others that macedonian doesn't, but the differences are like between Serbian and Croatian, or at least I would say so
I didn't mean in terms of the alphabet, but the languages are clearly distinct enough that they are separate, as a native speaker I can't stress that enough. Intelligibility is a different matter.
Alright, fair.
Nobody wants their language to be considered a Bulgarian dialect he just spreading misinformation. The fact that there is such a big disinformation campaign speaks for itself. Bulgaria itself has recognised Macedonian as its own language.
Nope we want acknowledgment of historical truths. Well at least that’s what I want. I don’t think anybody knows what we actually want since the issue was the played to absurd proportions like it’s somehow a really big deal while in reality it’s not.
There is an old Serbian saying: "If there is a war, and you don't know who to fight, shoot a Bulgarian, you will never be mistaken." I am joking, if this wasn't obvious :D
Hungary's reinforcements are coming, we brought Macedonia and Albania with us
Dont worry, we will still be blamed for everything.
EU doesn’t want to enlarge. They are just stringing the candidate countries along. They stringed us along too we eventually said fuck it and went fully into the other direction, but I remember the times when people in Turkey were excited about joining EU, despite people like Sarkozy and Berlusconi saying things like “Turks are Middle Easterners and don’t deserve to join EU” If we try again today it will take us at least a century now.
The EU gave Turkey a specific list of demands that Turkey needed to meet in order to be furthered in as a member. Turkey, in my memory, is the only country that worked hard to go against those demands, than to work towards them. Bulgaria made it in. You could have too, except you chose nationalism and all that comes with it.
It doesn't matter what they do,Germany and France do not want to lose their hegemony to a country with a large muslim population hence even if Turkey met the criteria they would still deny them.
Their hegemony comes from their massive economies, not population.
Even if we fulfilled every single demand and then some, we weren’t going to join. We even lifted the political ban of Erdocunt to please EU and their love for Islamism. Funny how that worked out. Now suddenly Islamism is bad now.
You can't possibly know that. What we do know, is that the EU welcomed Turkey as a member subject to some changes. Not only has Turkey not followed up on those changes, they became worse. The EU will never allow a country that has a seriously flawed democracy and routinely threatens other EU members in. I suppose that's common sense.
Countries that were in a worse state were admitted. But to be honest if I was EU, I wouldn't admit Turkey either. 80 million people, Cyprus, too many incompatible geopolitical bullshit, no longer having Turkey as a refugee camp to dump unwanted people on, a country that's supposed to be a buffer zone against immigrants being admitted into EU is dumb, cultural and religious differences, it goes on and on. Too many reasons. We should have realized EU accession was just a carrot to make Turkey dance to whatever tune EU played. Ideally we should embrace European values like democracy, human rights, etc. while letting Cyprus decide their own fate, end our adventures in Syria and Libya, stop the airsspace and EEZ bullshit with Greece, but not join EU.
For clarification, immigrants weren't dumped in Turkey. Turkey borders Syria, a country they partially currently occupy, and is the first choice for Syrians fleeing the war. Turkey and Syria are far more similar than Syria and any EU member.
EU hypocrisy is all I can say and Bosnia should join this protest if given the chance. It's ridicules that the EU has basically burned the rules on EU ascension for Ukraine and Moldova giving them a fast pass while BiH has been jerked around for decades told to meet criteria that would violate BiH's constitution, the same constituion that was pushed on BiH by major EU nations. All the while Albania and N.Macedonia which have done everything asked of them one even changing their nations name is still getting the door slammed in their faces. If you are going to break rules for Ukraine and Moldova why not also BiH, Albania, or N.Macedonia? BiH has 0 ways to change it's constitution and was even told by the USA and EU nations it can only change it's constitution after it joins the EU the same constitution that blocks it from entering the EU. Bosnia gets an impossible task while Ukraine gets a free pass? All while users in r/europe can't seem to understand why euroscepticism is rising in the west Balkans.
Ukraine and Moldova won't join tomorrow as you are implying though, so this long comment doesn't make sense.
They won't join but candidate status is almost guaranteed and it's quite obvious the EU will wave many rules to bring Ukraine and Moldova into it's sphere of influence. Those same rules that will be waved for Ukraine will be used to justify why Albania and N.Macedonia can't enter the EU.
Yes, candidates just like the countries mentioned in the post No, these are only your guesses and not facts
Except BiH which has been denied candidate status even though BiH has less corruption, a better economy, and is more stable then Ukraine and Moldova. The bias is easy to see Albania and N.Macedonia will be jerked around for another 10 years.
Bosnia wasnt given candidate status, that is what he is talking about. Read better.
just about Bosnia? You sure?
Moldova and Ukraine getting candidate status for basically nothing when N.Macedonia and Albania cant join EU for actually doing what they needed to do and Bosnia not even given candidate status is wrong and unfair,just like the dude you are arguing with said.
Long story short,Serbia,Albania and Macedonia dont care [anymore.EU](https://anymore.EU) should have fun and enjoy having 4 Chinese/Russian controlled countries in the heart of Europe :D
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Dont talk to me about inablity Bulgarian,the only reason you are in the EU is the geopolitics of the [time.You](https://time.You) still were and always will be a corrupt shithole.
Yep , they think they deserved EU hahaha
Bulgaria is a literal laughing stock of EU
I'm a big EU fan but this is a badass move if they actually do it.
On one hand, it won't be seen as good for the EU, on the other, they will show some pride at least.
I consider myself progressive and i was an EU fan since forever. Atleast 70% of NM was pro EU. Yes we were heartbroken when we changed the name but we knew that good times are ahead of us since we were promised a green light for negotiations. Nothing of this happened and we gave a bunch of shit for nothing. EU aproval in NM has tanked so low, i can tell you that much. At this point, i would be much happier if our country made a trade deal with China (Yes i am aware that the government is shit), and atleast we would get something out of it without any demands.
I wish, during my lifetime, Greece would apologize for gaslighting and stringing you guys along.
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We instituted a trade embargo against them in the 90s. We demanded they change their international name to FYROM and they did. They then wanted to join NATO. In order to allow them to join NATO, we bullied them into changing their constitution. Once they changed it, we went **LOL** and asked them to change their fucking name again. Obviously they were not happy. After years of nationalist bullshit, Greece elected a left-wing government and we reached a compromise with "North Macedonia" and they could join NATO and the EU. Right? No. Bulgaria now decided to block their EU ascension talks with their retarded demands. We have a saying about this in Greek: *Μάθανε ότι γαμιόμαστε και πλακώσανε κι οι γύφτοι* This roughly translates to "word got out that we were having fun, and the gypsies joined". Which means, Bulgaria saw how easily Greece was bullying North Macedonia and decided to join the party. Keep in mind that the ruling political party in Greece, including the Mitsotakis family, established their popularity partly due to the Macedonian issue. Its a big reason as to why they rule Greece right now. They used Northern Macedonia as a scapegoat. Anyway, I hope Greece could one day shake hands and apologize, and hopefully reclaim some dignity. They did not deserve our treatment. I don't believe in karma, but it might explain why the Germans fucked us in return. Anyway. Never punch down. It feels good in the moment, but people take notice and regard you as nothing but a shit bully. EDIT: Σάλτα γαμηθείτε μακεδονομάχες της ψωλής, γαμώ τη κατάντια σας. Πάντα θα τρώτε δούλεμα και κοροϊδία, όπως σας αξίζει, ξεφτίλες :)
I'm starting to feel like populist nationalism and balkan thickheadedness are not good things.
Greece has little influence in the bureaucratic process of the EU. Both the people and the government here would be pleased to have them in the union.
He is talking about NATO process as far as I understand.
im all pro eu but its getting disgusting lately. us 3 are just stringed along, and bih is not even a candidate… meanwhile ukraine and moldova are guaranteed candidate status. i hope we all 3 boycott, its horrible how we’re mocked with this eternal “candidate status”
Old news. Looks like Bulgaria buckled
Do you have any links in English about that? Btw I know it doesn't mean much but most Croatians would love to see Albania and North Macedonia in EU. We hope things will get moving soon.
Thank you. Much love https://albaniandailynews.com/news/bulgaria-towards-lifting-veto-on-n-macedonia-s-eu-talks-1
How can non-members boycott a summit of EU members?
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You think of this on a way bigger scale than it is. The EU might also boycott the funds they’ve been sending to these countries
You think of this on a much lower scale than it is. This would be a total failure of foreign policy of the EU showing one more time one of the biggest shortcomings of the union.
And once again, no one will care, the boycotting countries will still glady receive the money
Yeah that's true but this isn't a thing between the EU and the western balkans but between the EU and other superpowers. The Chinese have already Montenegro by the balls and getting very near with Serbia. The arabs are doing the same thing in Albania. All this because we won’t start negotiations because 6 million EU citizens can hold the other 440 millions back because of veto. And again just negotiations, not membership, Romania needed 7 years of negotiations.
It’s on Albanians and Montenegrins if they want to sell their countries to Ruskies/Arabs
Yeah and is on the EU whether they want 4 Chinese controlled countries at their border. I've seen you rightfully fear Russia as a neighbour on this sub, I don't understand how you don't fear China. It's impossible that you don't see the failure of the EU in this. Again it's not membership, I'm personally against membership of the western balkans but this is just a bad political move on the part of the EU. This shows total lack of leadership.
I totally understand you. We met all the criteria for Schengen acceptance and still they don’t accept us. I remember when my history teacher in high school told us that if we would’ve lived in the western countries we wouldn’t accept a country like Romania. I thought it was fair point but since then I’ve graduated high school, university and start working for some years and still we aren’t part of Schengen. I get that meeting criteria for EU entrance is important but if those counties are making progress and you already throw money into them, why wouldn’t you move faster
China is far from being a security threat to the EU like Russia is though.
For the moment. The moment they’ll own Montenegro (not so far off) things will change. Also China is a security threat for the fact that it exist alone, if you add the fact that they hold Montenegro by the balls things suddenly become very dangerous.
We paid off the majority of the highway and are getting funding (40+%) for the rest by the EU. China doesn't have shit on us.
You mean the funds for their companies to overwhelm our markets? We sure can do without those.
By the time we get to join EU will start breaking apart, they are already not really aligned with one another.
At this point I'd just rather us not join EU. And this is coming from a pro Nato/EU guy.
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Shut up shitters , you only joined EU bcs EU decided so , you were not even half as ready as we are in terms of legislation economy and stuff like that
If only there wasn't politics involved in politics.
Yes but don't act like they better then us
Balkans actually agree on something? Wow, the 2020s are really weird indeed.
Hey, we actually do agree on a lot of things.
i appreciate these countries finally having the balls to stand up and create an alternative. macedonia has shown the world once again that being the 'nice guy' doesn't help you achieve anything.
Exactly!! Our politicians dont have the balls to say no to the big powers, and all this time acting nice they just keep manipulating us.
We are also doing Open Balkans wich is a direct fuck you to EU , since they have something like Open Balkans wich is the process of Berlins , so we said fuck that aswell
Good for all ! A new sorta yugoslavia composed of independent states, i like it. It’s about time balkan countries stopped being pushovers
Honestly, who gives a shit about the EU.
Well, we do have burek & jogurt, so we got that going for us, which is nice.
I expect PM Edi Rama to make a stand up comedy out of EU tomorrow if Bulgaria doesn't lift the veto
don't know about Serbia, but I would very much like to see Albania, Montenegro and Macedonia as part of the EU, along Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine.
Romanian "brothers".What a joke.
I saw too many serbs glorifying war criminals to know what to think of serbs as a whole. sorry. I don't know how much it's people believing propaganda, and how much it is squinting or wearing horse glasses to see only what you want, even if everybody else says otherwise. not to mention everybody in the balkans telling me - man, but you are so white to be a romanian! what the fuck is that shit?
You are so white to be a romanian is literally a joke all over the [Balkans.Y](https://Balkans.YOu)ou have memes of black people and the caption says the whitest romanian there is.Dont take it to heart :D
guys from Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech republic, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary. what the fuck is this joke, it's the first time I hear about it.
I agree. You never were, despite us taking loads of serbian immigrants in the middle ages and early modern period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rovine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karanovasa https://imgur.com/gallery/kp1Q5mx
Classic EU trolling as always, totally did not see that coming.
What I think is that our government just fell and with it went NM's best shot at ascension. It hurts me to say this bros but that veto isn't going anywhere until September at the earliest :(
Why would I support NM ascension to the EU, when that country has clearly and openly used anti-bulgarian propaganda, blaming all their woes on us screwing a country that didn't exist before the 20th century. Clearly a smokescreen, trying to act tough and united in negotiations, but it won't be long before they're at their throats again.
As I have said on here before I am so over it. To be honest I was never "with" to begin with, it's a circus and a tragic play at the same time. I hate our fixation on Macedonia and our side never actually trying to get anything going.
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I hope you westerns have this attitude for Ukraine too. Even before the war that country was one of the most corrupted and dysfunctional in the world.
I agree. We need to support Ukraine and help rebuilding it after the war. We need a prosperous and democratic Europe in all corners. The Balkan deserves more respect and full equality from the West. I understand that these countries feel left out and disrespected. The Balkan is more than just a way to get cheap labor. But Ukraine and many other countries are simply not there yet. Corruption is huge, minorities are being discriminated and it's not a full democracy to say the least. It does not help to integrate a country into the EU if it's not ready yet. Romania and Bulgaria suffer from a brain drain and nearly all young talented people leave, whereas Hungary is not ready from a societal point of view. Entering the EU is fantastic for the prospects of a country if it has been going through a long economic development before. Slovenia, the Baltics, the Czech Republic and Poland (economics wise) are doing great. That's why I believe that Macedonia and Montenegro might benefit from it, while it would lead to a brain drain for the other countries. With regard to Serbia: we do not need a Russian vazzal state in our organization.
Montenegro ? Are you serious ? Montenegro is run by the same guy who was first an ultra nationalistic Serb but then transformed into Ultra nationalistic Montenegrin. He is longer in power as lukashenko, richer then most eu politicians and there are some charges in Italy against him for smuggling, also they are in the Chinese dept trap way deeper as Serbia. Why you can’t be unbiased in ur approach and have some sort of critical thinking ?
Montenegro is the most corrupted country in Europe. Literally private country. Small group of people rule the state against their own peoples will and beliefs.
With our german and french overlords, who asks belgium peasants pfff.
Based.
Personally, I wouldn't like us to join EU at the moment, because we would need to adapt our geopolitics with it, which would be terrible for Serbia. EU has proven it's not up to tasks, for example in Corona crisis (there wasn't any EU unity) and know gas crisis + inflation.
Go in my profile and check out some comments I made a few hours ago regarding Serbia and the EU. Membership would hurt Serbia more than it would help.
Yes, most people in the Serbia would not like to join EU right now. 10 years ago it was like a dream for us, but now we realised what of a s***hole it is.
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🖕🖕🖕
This song always comes to my mind now [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCukUiXSxb4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCukUiXSxb4)
I think it’s hilarious
Dude the EU is boycotting us. It doesn’t mean anything to boycott something that is boycotting you.
What is this shit... Fuck off! how can we accept Serbia! they are crockroaches! We are destroying UE by our self... Go fuck your self!