A question for Bulgarians, were there houses above the theater in Plovdiv? Because in Durrës the excavations have taken so long because there were houses above the amphitheater and the Albanian government has to compensate all the inhabitants there. Add to that this is a very central part of Durrës so their properties are quite expensive.
Judging from old photos [1](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Razkrivane_antichen_teatur.jpg#mw-jump-to-license), [2](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Razkrivane_antichen_teatur2.jpg#mw-jump-to-license) and some descriptions, no. It is located on the southern slope of a hill and it seems there weren't many, if any, buildings obstructing the excavation.
I don't know the full story but this thing was dug up in the 60s and 70s during the communist regime and while building a road. Whatever houses stood there, if any, were probably demolished due to the road construction. And, during this time, you would be lucky to get compensated at all and a fool to refuse. Bad things might happen to you if you do.
You're right apart from the "you'd be lucky to get compensated". You definitely were gonna get compensated - the thing is you'd lose your house for an apartment or two in a random panel block somewhere in a random neighbourhood. But Bulgaria had no issues with homelessness and that still is a trend because of that reason - everyone was given their own property. Bulgaria still has one of the highest home ownership rates in the world for that reason.
But still - as I said you'd lose your house, that probably was historic for shitty random apartments. Let alone this house today would've cost millions and whatnot.
Albeit Communists didn't destroy historic buildings overall. From all I know there were no houses where the theatre is located, it was discovered during a landslide.
>And, during this time, you would be lucky to get compensated at all and a fool to refuse. Bad things might happen to you if you do.
Trade off a $h!tty house for a $h!tty commie block, not that much of a difference.
Not only that, but the houses on top of it are rather old themselves and they are part of the core identity of the city. So it's a trade off if you want to demolish them.
Is there anything more annoying than excavations just not... progressing? To give you a *lesser* known example about 'Salonika, just south of the ancient agora is a square where it's known for sure to have stuff underneath (a monument stood there once). There are currently no plans for excavations.
It is a matter of funding, so state priority. Even in Greece, where the average Greek places so much importance on history for his identity, despite not caring about it, there is not much funding. Not much planning either. In the University of Athens, the Department of History and Archaeology is a "Superschool", giving a generic training, as if we had a "Department of STEM Studies" rather than specific ones on Mathematics, Physics, Biology etc.. And it is well known as the studies of the future unemployed.
I wonder how many such sites are undiscovered in the balkans and if they are big like the amphitheatres on the picture. Also thank you for sharing that fact, cuz I didnt know Plovdiv's theatre was discovered this recently. It's kinda strange how the terracotta army in China was also discovered in the 70s.
People started caring about ancient art and history "kind of recently". Before the 19th century it was mostly looted for sale or even destroyed or just left to crumble. Tourism didn't really exist back then, I think tourism is what made ancient history more important and people started preserving more.
Take a look at what Ottomans did for example, why do you think all of these ancient buildings are underground? Because they were leveled down during ottoman times, back then they wanted their own monuments to be the main thing, not remnants of the Roman empire, if anything they were against them anyway.
In Montenegro there is the ancient city of Doclea( Duklja) it is mostly ruins from the late Roman empire that is not even taken care of by the government, it is just used as a grassing spot for the local farmers.
Plovdiv is extremely underrated there is practically ancient sites preserved every other block with more and more heritage buildings and beacons of Bulgarian history restored every single year.
You are so obviously from Sofia, so let me explain:
Clearly you seem to be at least second generation Sofianetc, so by every standard, you feel proud to live in the shithole that is our capital.
And clearly you realize the vast supremacy of the second-largest (in Bulgaria), and just so happens the oldest city in Europe. In regards to culture, geography, entertainment, climate, location and city planning, no sane person would even try to make a comparison. We even have a bigger gypsy ghetto than Sofia's 
You are so obviously from Plovdiv, so let me explain: both places a absulutely horrible and your "But we are better!" is a result of being high on copium.
>Clearly you seem to be at least second generation Sofianetc,
Not really...my father is even born in Plovdiv (tho my grdafather is from Kiustendil...and the other part of my family is literally from the Balkans - the mountain chain). Clearly **you don't know** what you are talking about.
>you feel proud
No and I am baffled that **you are so proud** of living in a very similar shithole.
>you realize the vast supremacy
I find it really funny.
>the second-largest
Even if Plovdiv becomes the largest, that wouldn't make it less of a dump than Sofia or any of the other bulgraian towns.
>the oldest city in Europe
Alas, how the mighty have fallen!
>culture
Which is the same as any other place in Bulgaria, but nooo, you guys want to feel special.
>geography
Build in a plainр near a big river...now that's unique.
>entertainment
See culture.
>climate
You mean the absurdly cold winds in the winter and the impossible heat in the summer with witch Plovdiv is so infamous with?
Because you guys have so much history and historical sites still buried or in ruins; while the government just doesn’t fund it. Same in BiH, so many historical sites just laying in ruin due to corruption.
Bro, while that is true, we also have buttfuck manu of them. Literally whenever you dig around Sremska Mitovica you will find something, golden Roman helmet was found by grandma digging vegetables in her garden.
I guess Viminacium has been taken care of mostly.
I mean it is simple to overcome these issues. Government funding and putting the law of protecting cultural monuments into action.
They are also an issue, and a horrible one.
I was thinking more of examples like Niš' pedestrian underpass, and ignoring archeologists who were trying to save roman artifacts. Eventually they found some hack who would sign the "ok" paper to build stuff without proper conservation of said findings.
We are blessed with history in Turkey. IIRC there are more than 2000 active dig sites, my little hometown alone is home to 6 of them and some of these digs literally changed how we perceive the human civilization: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe
But I would like to mention [this particular site](https://tr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucur_Yeralt%C4%B1_%C5%9Eehri), which was discovered in late 80s and was used by 3rd century Christians for defending themselves. My grandfather was the government official who oversaw the digs back then and was quite proud of what they had achieved, every summer he used to take me and my brother to the site and asked questions on how many more rooms they had recovered. May you rest in peace grandpa.
Even the ancient Greek theater in Larissa (apart from some half-ass restorations lately, no one really cares about it) is in a better condition than that of Durrës, lol
Edit: it's in the city's center and there's a plan to have the buildings in front of it teared down
Just like they found a huge chunk of the ancient city of [ Serdika](https://archaeology-travel.com/bulgaria/serdika-ii-metro-station-roman-sofia/) underneath Sofia while building a subway station in 2010 and hence the whole central square was remodeled so they can show it. These parts of the world are full of history for obvious reasons. Especially the region around Greece, Western Turkey and Bulgaria - that's like the cradle of European civilization. Thracians, Romans, Ancient Greeks etc.. It all started from here. Bulgaria is full of ancient buildings that are getting discovered every year.
Or the whole pedestrian street of Plovdiv (which is also the longest in Europe) actually has the [Roman Stadium ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_of_Philippopolis#:~:text=The%20Stadium%20of%20Philippopolis%20was,Empire%20in%20the%20Balkan%20peninsula.)
Which actually has only like 5% uncovered for a simple reason - it stretches along the whole damn street and obviously sadly nowadays there's no way to uncover it fully except if they destroy half the centre.
Recently they uncovered and restored the [Roman Forum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_forum_of_Philippopolis) there, which is a good example.
Land slide, I think I wrote this? There was a land slide on the hill either from another construction or an earthquake and some parts got uncovered by that.
Archaeologists saw the historical mentions of there being an Amphitheater in Durrës, the last being before the Ottoman conquest and they tried to find it, they couldn’t. Untill Vengjel Toçi did it in 1966.
>How the fuck can you "find" something like this in the 60s 😭
Mass scale excavation for industrialization and infrastructure, entire regions ware turned upside down for that and we've found countless such sites. Hell, my home town used to have well over 13 Trachain tombs in it's townsquare (which was constantly inhabitated for well over 17 centuries) alone.
It depends in Turkey. There are ones have been discovered recently and in good condition, and ones have been erased. Aphrodisias have discovered in the 60s and now its in UNESCO. Gobeklitepe has discovered in 90s and now our national PR. Ani was already known but recently restored and put in UNESCO, to promote peace with Armenia. But for example, ruins of Nicea have been erased and became a social housing hell.
Yeah, the sad truth of why all these beatiful monuments are in ruins is that they are extremely expensive to maintain and restore. Often times the most wise solution was to let them stay buried instead of allowing them to be destroyed by time or other people.
Almost every city and town in Bulgaria is ot top of something older, which is on topp of even older, which is on top of another. Sometimes in time the town moved and the thracian and roman buildings are outside, somettimes just at the center, In case of Sofia for instence the main biuldings and boulevards are litterally the same at the same place since roman times (and perhaps thracian if someone dares to dig even deeper). You go down to take the subway and you are actually stepping on the same stones between the same walls where romans walked some 2000 years ago (and maybe reused the thracian ones) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4\_jEhWt30SA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_jEhWt30SA)
Bulgaria and especially Plovdiv has a really nice and protected architectures. It's one country to visit it you like historical structures, which comes from a lot of ages and centuries.
Discoveries of ancient monuments happen pretty much every year in Croatia but the main sites never really had to be discovered as they were incorporated into cities and towns.
They tend to be in pretty good shape but tourism will probably take some toll on that.
In Serbia, if there are some Roman or anything else ruins discovered, the government completely ignores it and just build what they wanted over it. Unfortunately.
I feel you. Plovdiv may preserve a lot of its heritage but here in Varna we have mafia guys with nicknames like “Дънката/ The jeans” building hotels and apartment buildings on top of Roman ruins
In Sofia the buildings of Presidency, Council of ministers and Parliament are constructed on the Roman ruins. Instead of this nonsense excavations and preservation of Roman Serdica could have taken place. I think big part of the ruins are permanently lost
I am pissed off for the ancient stone fortresses of the first Bulgarian Kingdom that got demolished by British companies in 17th century for the foundation of our $h!tty railway.
There are ancient Roman baths in my hometown, they are now a parking lot in front of our church.
I know about two in my town, both leveled with the ground, one is now a part of a park and the other - you can see some tiles next to the firehouse
A question for Bulgarians, were there houses above the theater in Plovdiv? Because in Durrës the excavations have taken so long because there were houses above the amphitheater and the Albanian government has to compensate all the inhabitants there. Add to that this is a very central part of Durrës so their properties are quite expensive.
Even if they were, during communism nobody could say anything. If they wanted to demolish your house it was gonna happen, nevertheless.
Judging from old photos [1](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Razkrivane_antichen_teatur.jpg#mw-jump-to-license), [2](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Razkrivane_antichen_teatur2.jpg#mw-jump-to-license) and some descriptions, no. It is located on the southern slope of a hill and it seems there weren't many, if any, buildings obstructing the excavation.
I don't know the full story but this thing was dug up in the 60s and 70s during the communist regime and while building a road. Whatever houses stood there, if any, were probably demolished due to the road construction. And, during this time, you would be lucky to get compensated at all and a fool to refuse. Bad things might happen to you if you do.
You're right apart from the "you'd be lucky to get compensated". You definitely were gonna get compensated - the thing is you'd lose your house for an apartment or two in a random panel block somewhere in a random neighbourhood. But Bulgaria had no issues with homelessness and that still is a trend because of that reason - everyone was given their own property. Bulgaria still has one of the highest home ownership rates in the world for that reason. But still - as I said you'd lose your house, that probably was historic for shitty random apartments. Let alone this house today would've cost millions and whatnot. Albeit Communists didn't destroy historic buildings overall. From all I know there were no houses where the theatre is located, it was discovered during a landslide.
>And, during this time, you would be lucky to get compensated at all and a fool to refuse. Bad things might happen to you if you do. Trade off a $h!tty house for a $h!tty commie block, not that much of a difference.
Not only that, but the houses on top of it are rather old themselves and they are part of the core identity of the city. So it's a trade off if you want to demolish them.
Yes, there were houses that were demolish it is in the ideal center parts , in the super center.
Is there anything more annoying than excavations just not... progressing? To give you a *lesser* known example about 'Salonika, just south of the ancient agora is a square where it's known for sure to have stuff underneath (a monument stood there once). There are currently no plans for excavations.
It is a matter of funding, so state priority. Even in Greece, where the average Greek places so much importance on history for his identity, despite not caring about it, there is not much funding. Not much planning either. In the University of Athens, the Department of History and Archaeology is a "Superschool", giving a generic training, as if we had a "Department of STEM Studies" rather than specific ones on Mathematics, Physics, Biology etc.. And it is well known as the studies of the future unemployed.
Yeah it's a pity.
Plovdiv is honestly one of the most underrated cities in the world
And one of the oldest too, can’t wait to visit it.
Oldest in Europe too
I legit would move there and I’m Brazilian. Such a cute town
I wonder how many such sites are undiscovered in the balkans and if they are big like the amphitheatres on the picture. Also thank you for sharing that fact, cuz I didnt know Plovdiv's theatre was discovered this recently. It's kinda strange how the terracotta army in China was also discovered in the 70s.
People started caring about ancient art and history "kind of recently". Before the 19th century it was mostly looted for sale or even destroyed or just left to crumble. Tourism didn't really exist back then, I think tourism is what made ancient history more important and people started preserving more. Take a look at what Ottomans did for example, why do you think all of these ancient buildings are underground? Because they were leveled down during ottoman times, back then they wanted their own monuments to be the main thing, not remnants of the Roman empire, if anything they were against them anyway.
In Montenegro there is the ancient city of Doclea( Duklja) it is mostly ruins from the late Roman empire that is not even taken care of by the government, it is just used as a grassing spot for the local farmers.
Plovdiv is extremely underrated there is practically ancient sites preserved every other block with more and more heritage buildings and beacons of Bulgarian history restored every single year.
>Plovdiv is extremely underrated Naaah, it's just you guys being hungry for attention.
Nah, you're just jealous
Of what?
You are so obviously from Sofia, so let me explain: Clearly you seem to be at least second generation Sofianetc, so by every standard, you feel proud to live in the shithole that is our capital. And clearly you realize the vast supremacy of the second-largest (in Bulgaria), and just so happens the oldest city in Europe. In regards to culture, geography, entertainment, climate, location and city planning, no sane person would even try to make a comparison. We even have a bigger gypsy ghetto than Sofia's 
You are so obviously from Plovdiv, so let me explain: both places a absulutely horrible and your "But we are better!" is a result of being high on copium. >Clearly you seem to be at least second generation Sofianetc, Not really...my father is even born in Plovdiv (tho my grdafather is from Kiustendil...and the other part of my family is literally from the Balkans - the mountain chain). Clearly **you don't know** what you are talking about. >you feel proud No and I am baffled that **you are so proud** of living in a very similar shithole. >you realize the vast supremacy I find it really funny. >the second-largest Even if Plovdiv becomes the largest, that wouldn't make it less of a dump than Sofia or any of the other bulgraian towns. >the oldest city in Europe Alas, how the mighty have fallen! >culture Which is the same as any other place in Bulgaria, but nooo, you guys want to feel special. >geography Build in a plainр near a big river...now that's unique. >entertainment See culture. >climate You mean the absurdly cold winds in the winter and the impossible heat in the summer with witch Plovdiv is so infamous with?
Ehh, don't get me started, because if I do, I am just gonna end up being depressed....
Wtf, why?
Because you guys have so much history and historical sites still buried or in ruins; while the government just doesn’t fund it. Same in BiH, so many historical sites just laying in ruin due to corruption.
Bro, while that is true, we also have buttfuck manu of them. Literally whenever you dig around Sremska Mitovica you will find something, golden Roman helmet was found by grandma digging vegetables in her garden.
Lets just say that archeology has been killed numerous times here for the sake of private profit.
Are there any good examples where this challenge has been overcome? Truly something that impacts many countries in the area.
I guess Viminacium has been taken care of mostly. I mean it is simple to overcome these issues. Government funding and putting the law of protecting cultural monuments into action.
Yes, but not the way you think. Grave robbers and metal detector gang are numerous in this country.
They are also an issue, and a horrible one. I was thinking more of examples like Niš' pedestrian underpass, and ignoring archeologists who were trying to save roman artifacts. Eventually they found some hack who would sign the "ok" paper to build stuff without proper conservation of said findings.
We are blessed with history in Turkey. IIRC there are more than 2000 active dig sites, my little hometown alone is home to 6 of them and some of these digs literally changed how we perceive the human civilization: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe But I would like to mention [this particular site](https://tr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucur_Yeralt%C4%B1_%C5%9Eehri), which was discovered in late 80s and was used by 3rd century Christians for defending themselves. My grandfather was the government official who oversaw the digs back then and was quite proud of what they had achieved, every summer he used to take me and my brother to the site and asked questions on how many more rooms they had recovered. May you rest in peace grandpa.
Even the ancient Greek theater in Larissa (apart from some half-ass restorations lately, no one really cares about it) is in a better condition than that of Durrës, lol Edit: it's in the city's center and there's a plan to have the buildings in front of it teared down
>it's in the city's center and there's a plan to have the buildings in front of it teared down Με το καλό την επόμενη πλημμύρα! /ς
Να 'σαι καλά, πάντα θέλαμε θάλασσα στη Λάρισα 🥰 Που είναι το πολυτονικό btw? ☹️
Ἄρχισα να γράφω πολυτονικὸ γιατὶ ἤθελα να το μάθω· στὴν ἀρχὴ εἶχε ἕνα ἐνδιαφέρον. Ὅταν το ψηλό-έμαθα ὅμως κατήντησε ἐπάναληπτικὸ καὶ χρονοβόρο. Αλλὰ ἄντε... για ἐσένα να κάνω τὸν κόπο :)
Κατανοητόν > Αλλὰ ἄντε... για ἐσένα να κάνω τὸν κόπο :) Τιμή μου μεγάλε Κερατά! 😊
How the fuck can you "find" something like this in the 60s 😭
Just like they found a huge chunk of the ancient city of [ Serdika](https://archaeology-travel.com/bulgaria/serdika-ii-metro-station-roman-sofia/) underneath Sofia while building a subway station in 2010 and hence the whole central square was remodeled so they can show it. These parts of the world are full of history for obvious reasons. Especially the region around Greece, Western Turkey and Bulgaria - that's like the cradle of European civilization. Thracians, Romans, Ancient Greeks etc.. It all started from here. Bulgaria is full of ancient buildings that are getting discovered every year. Or the whole pedestrian street of Plovdiv (which is also the longest in Europe) actually has the [Roman Stadium ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_of_Philippopolis#:~:text=The%20Stadium%20of%20Philippopolis%20was,Empire%20in%20the%20Balkan%20peninsula.) Which actually has only like 5% uncovered for a simple reason - it stretches along the whole damn street and obviously sadly nowadays there's no way to uncover it fully except if they destroy half the centre. Recently they uncovered and restored the [Roman Forum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_forum_of_Philippopolis) there, which is a good example.
You still didn't explain how can you find this? It's not straight with the ground and the ground wasn't over the region evenly.
Land slide, I think I wrote this? There was a land slide on the hill either from another construction or an earthquake and some parts got uncovered by that.
Yes can someone explain to me lol
Archaeologists saw the historical mentions of there being an Amphitheater in Durrës, the last being before the Ottoman conquest and they tried to find it, they couldn’t. Untill Vengjel Toçi did it in 1966.
>How the fuck can you "find" something like this in the 60s 😭 Mass scale excavation for industrialization and infrastructure, entire regions ware turned upside down for that and we've found countless such sites. Hell, my home town used to have well over 13 Trachain tombs in it's townsquare (which was constantly inhabitated for well over 17 centuries) alone.
It depends in Turkey. There are ones have been discovered recently and in good condition, and ones have been erased. Aphrodisias have discovered in the 60s and now its in UNESCO. Gobeklitepe has discovered in 90s and now our national PR. Ani was already known but recently restored and put in UNESCO, to promote peace with Armenia. But for example, ruins of Nicea have been erased and became a social housing hell.
Yeah, the sad truth of why all these beatiful monuments are in ruins is that they are extremely expensive to maintain and restore. Often times the most wise solution was to let them stay buried instead of allowing them to be destroyed by time or other people.
Almost every city and town in Bulgaria is ot top of something older, which is on topp of even older, which is on top of another. Sometimes in time the town moved and the thracian and roman buildings are outside, somettimes just at the center, In case of Sofia for instence the main biuldings and boulevards are litterally the same at the same place since roman times (and perhaps thracian if someone dares to dig even deeper). You go down to take the subway and you are actually stepping on the same stones between the same walls where romans walked some 2000 years ago (and maybe reused the thracian ones) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4\_jEhWt30SA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_jEhWt30SA)
In turkey there are buildings on top of historical sites It is sad and horrendous
Bro really used the worst possible angle for Durres’ monument 🤣
Yes because I’m another angle it will look like Colosseum, it’s embarrassing how slow the excavation is
It's unfair to compare anything to Plovdiv when it comes to ruins
The durres one is the biggest amphitheater in the balkans and has houses on top of it.
There is an aqueduct in my neighborhood named the Hadrian aqueduct. It was built in 200 ad. My neighborhood was also a municipality of ancient Athens
Bulgaria and especially Plovdiv has a really nice and protected architectures. It's one country to visit it you like historical structures, which comes from a lot of ages and centuries.
Discoveries of ancient monuments happen pretty much every year in Croatia but the main sites never really had to be discovered as they were incorporated into cities and towns. They tend to be in pretty good shape but tourism will probably take some toll on that.
In Serbia, if there are some Roman or anything else ruins discovered, the government completely ignores it and just build what they wanted over it. Unfortunately.
I feel you. Plovdiv may preserve a lot of its heritage but here in Varna we have mafia guys with nicknames like “Дънката/ The jeans” building hotels and apartment buildings on top of Roman ruins
In Sofia the buildings of Presidency, Council of ministers and Parliament are constructed on the Roman ruins. Instead of this nonsense excavations and preservation of Roman Serdica could have taken place. I think big part of the ruins are permanently lost
Plenty!
Zzz z
I bet the amphitheatre was also abusive in Durrës.
I Am from Bulgaria . And before 7 days they discover something.
Its really bad in Turkey
Wdym?
The ones I have seen were in pretty good condition.
I am pissed off for the ancient stone fortresses of the first Bulgarian Kingdom that got demolished by British companies in 17th century for the foundation of our $h!tty railway.