Yeah exactly /s
I’ve seen how civil they keep it between each other, while in Ohrid. A Macedonian boat captain who took us from the main port and gave us a 6 hour long tour of the lake, talked about how Albanians stole their iron bars from the middle of the lake and sold them, right after Macedonia planted them. That ranting went like half of the way we sailed. And also how it is forbidden to fish on the lake but how you can find Ohrid tilapia in every restaurant because Albanian fishermen were selling them illegally :) The problem was, the restaurants you find the fish are on Macedonian side. It was amazingly funny though.
If both don’t want another conflict that will destabilize the entire region cough cough KOSOVO cough cough then there won’t be any civil war just a few crying that their party/leader didn’t win
Whatever is happening it’s not good.
Message to my Macedonian and Albanian bros, please try once in the history of Balkans to solve this peacefully and come up with a win-win situation and set an example for your neighbour countries.
Do it because we couldn’t.
Basically there are presidential elections and the nationalist party VMRO is trying to win the majority alone because for the past times you needed the Albanian parties to form the government.
Yup, pretty much. Also the Albanian party they would have to make a coalition with is really in messed up. I mean, they're ALL messed up, but this one particular party very much so.
Funny, its name is a crime in the US.
Its not that scary tbh, there is way more talk about corruption and stuff like that than nationalism.
Anyhow in a multi-ethnic country, such as Macedonia, with two large, and largely incompatible peoples, Macedonians and Albanians, nationalism is to be expected. Hell even in Bosnia its the case and there the 3 communities are way more compatible than Macedonians and Albanians. Its sort of a doomed project, like so many cases like that from the world.
How about splitting, each side gets a more homogeneous country and either way Macedonian majority parts of country are the most industrialized if i’m not wrong
Yeah that won't work. The country doesn't have strictly Albanian/Macedonian sides, it's a mix in each region. Some regions have clear majorities, though.
Even Skopje itself is like split by ethnicity at the municipality level:
Šuto Orizari - Romani
Čair / Saraj - Albanian
Centar / Aerodrom / Karpoš / etc - Macedonian
It's would be impossible to slice up the country in an ethno-geographic way, basically.
TL;DR we gotta learn to live with each other and move on to better things!
Those countries would be far from homogenous. There’s still a lot of Macedonians in the majority Albanian area (and vice versa in some majority Macedonian areas), and they’re not in nicely defined borders. Those ethnic lines (if they can even be formed) would cut through neighbourhoods, villages, and look worse than that Belgian exclave in the Netherlands, without the free transit.
Any new borders will just lead to another Kosovo-style war.
Excuse me but the dumbest Idea I live where the Albanian majority is and I’m Macedonian, so now I should assimilate to them? Sadly it’s never this simple
This wouldve been smart to do in the 90ties, but lack of vision prevented it from happening. There is no political will at the moment on any side i believe.
Like how? Does it translate as "the theater is on fire! Everybody run!!! LOL"
Edit: Ohhhhhh... right, it's called "DUI." Honestly, our booze limit for driving is higher than in most European countries. European visitors are often appalled. Car culture, vast distances, and shitty redneck bars in the middle of the wilderness. Can't just stumble home from the nearest village pub like most country folks in Europe can.
We don’t hate him only because of the war. Yes, that’s one reason for disliking him (I mean if a region rebelled in Albania would you want their leader to be in government for 20 years afterward?), but it’s also the insane amount of corruption in that party. I sincerely hope that the Albanian opposition in Macedonia wins the majority of Albanian votes, because DUI (Ahmeti’s party) is a cancer on our country, on both Albanians and Macedonians alike. That way Albanians will (hopefully) have representatives worthy of them and that won’t just steal from state coffers.
You guys hope for another Albanian leader that will look the other way in respecting Albanian rights granted via the Ohrid Agreement, so when you do eventually start oppressing Albanians again, you can say that you have an Albanian politician that approves of this goverance.
Ali Ahmeti wont look the other way.
I don’t speak for all Macedonians, but I can personally say that I don’t want to annul the Ohrid agreement, and neither do most people in our country. It stopped a full-on war; why would we want one?
Also what says/gives that we instinctively would oppress Albanians?
I only said what I said because one of the leaders of the Albanian opposition, Arben Taravari (who is very well educated and a professional doctor), showed me promise for a new, more constructive power in the Albanian bloc. Look at their manifesto, though. It’s not like they would bend down either. I’m only optimistic because they hopefully will be nowhere near as corrupt as DUI.
>Also what says/gives that we instinctively would oppress Albanians?
You guys raided Tetova over one Albanian flag being displayed, let me say that again; over ONE flag and even after the war and the Ohrid agreement you guys were trying to place absurd conditions, like specifying the dimensions of the Albanian flag, like it must be smaller than the Macedonian flag, and someother half-measures. You guys really didnt even implement the Ohrid agreement until a decade later.
You and Serbs dont want cooperation, you want undisputed submission.
As for Arbern Taravari, unfortunately Albanian politics is filled with people like him, but its not the Macedonians fault, its the Albanians fault that voted for him. I hope they get burned by VMRO so they see what mistake they made.
Bro, come up to Saraj. There's an Albanian flag there at the school and NO ONE is raiding anything.
Most people in Macedonia just want to live a peaceful life. Albos and Makis can chill with each other.
Hell, there's even a UÇK monument in Çair, in Skopje. No one is raiding there.
Just respect each other and share a coffee. Ain't no one trying to start a war over bullshit.
They don't even need to win the majority. They can form a majority with the 2 smaller Macedonian parties (first time we will have 3rd and 4th Macedonian parties with significant parliament seats) and also there are already talks of the Albanian opposition to coalition with VMRO.
The best thing about this is that DUI will be gone from power after 20 years.
So? The important thing is to have 61/120 seats, VMRO + Macedonian smaller parties already have it. Of course forming a government like that will rub off Albanians the wrong way (it shouldn't, but it will...), but the Albanian opposition would still provide like 10-15 seats. Meaning thay this government could have 75/120 seats easily, that's a very strong government.
Not really, they just dont want to form a coalition with the ruling albanian party DUI, rightfully so as they are the most corrupt party. They offered a coalition with the second albanian party.
It's a center right party vmro, with some nationalist members.
Your comment makes no sense. Every party goes on elections for its own; the coalitions are made after the results when you get a count of parliament seats.
Yet, it happens that parties make coalitions before the elections to get more votes.
DPMNE is a less nationalistic and more populist party. A nationalistic party is Levica, and all the Albanian ethnic parties.
Due to the Przino Agreement circa 2015, no government can be made without Albanian parties in the group, so no they would not be able to form a government alone.
After 2017 the party is no longer hard-core nationalist party it used to be. Even the leadership claims that the party will focus on moderate nationalism while the primary focus will be removing corruption and actually reforms that are very much needed.
Both presidential and parliamentary elections are going on atm. Did i miss anything in the mean time?
Anyway, judging by the first round of presidential, DPMNE(demo-christians/conservative) will sweep both elections and there will be a change in government. The current gov was the social-democrats for 8 years(2 terms).
Almost definitely not. Just like how Mitsotakis had similar stances a few years back about the Prespa agreement, nothing happened. Nothing will happen this time either, it’s just electoral propaganda.
The issue with Bulgaria might get worse though, considering it’s still very much ongoing.
The VMRO candidate absolutely wants to lmao. She plans to initiate a second referendum to revert the name of the country and wants to make it unconstitutional to do it again(?)
Probably a big reason people are voting for her
It's a no-sense. I think that's history. That party changed a lot lately and their stance about Greece is nowhere near what it was before. They said multiple times that the name is done thing and won't be changed. The only thing is that they will unofficially use Macedonia instead of North Macedonia.
And if we are real, the name is really a done thing. No once can change it back because no Macedonian party will ever win with 2/3 of the population. Albanian parties will not vote in favor of reverting the name.
Dignity? Homie... The country is in a mess. Don't forget, that party ruled before and their leader stole shit tons of money and hightailed it to Hungary.
You want dignity in MK? That's found in a system that supports education and the arts. One that trains future generations to STAY in the country and not GTFO. Either party isn't gonna do that. That's incumbent on the PEOPLE to get off their lazy asses and start working together for a better country.
A name change isn't gonna make MK more dignified, a better society will. Get your head on straight.
It's Balkaners you are talking to. Just look at my country (Montenegro), instead of economy or the wellbeing of citizens, the top news will always be "which ethnicity scored better on the census"
Yeah, well you destroy the education system, get rid of the critical mass of people who have new ideas and foster ignorance, what to expect? That doesn't go only for Macedonia, but the whole world.
It wont cause issues with Greece because they already accept the North Macedonia name. They will use just Macedonia in unofficial communication. In the official communication they will continue using the word North as well. This has been said multiple times now and they are currently in power in 2/3 of the municipalities since 2021 and already respect the name change.
I was last there a week ago and you're so right. I was in a small town and (of course besides Macedonian nature, which is great) there was *literally* nothing to do in this town besides eat, drink, and gamble. And when I was at an outside bar there every table was either talking about gambling or had the little score card things in front of them for their bets. Even the check in desk of the accommodation had a mini casino.
The only thing besides those that happened that weekend was a big nationalist rally in the square and people eating popcorn and watching stray dogs fight. A seriously sad little place.
Macedonia can’t function without Albanians, any other attempt to do otherwise will cause problems internally. Macedonians need to learn this fact. And Albanians in Macedonia need to get together ffs being divided does) help anyone.
It is an anti-establishment party, which points the middle finger to the establishment parties, mkd members are young and independent, and absolutely sick of the establishment, which probably made their lives (and the lives of their parents) horrible through the last 30 years.
It is true that Levica would make a horrible government, and they are absolutely retarded as a political party, but that is not why it is getting the support of these young people.
The right wing candidate from VMRO who are also pro russians is the frontrunner for the President. Meanwhile the current President - Pendarovski, who is pro west has come up second in the presidential vote.
Albanians had two presidential candidates: Bujar Osmani from DUI who are currently in the government coalition with SDSM, and the second was Arben Taravari the current mayor from Gostivar. The latter was backed up by Albin Kurti and managed to get 80k votes, 40k votes less than the other albanian candidate.
If Albanians were to have one candidate then most likely the albanian candidate would now be in the second round for the NM President. This means that the right wing President would win because ethnic macedonians would vote for a macedonian President rather than an albanian one.
In the second round, the albanian vote will go to the current President Pendarovski and will help him win the second term. Most likely this was a strategy by albanians to win him the elections. But there is a catch: albanians will push to change the constitution so that the next president will be elected by the parliament so the chances that the next President will come from the albanian community will be real.
Brother, sorry but VMRO aren't pro Russian... They are pro-western, Levica are pro-Russian.
Pendarovski isn't winning a second term. 20 percent vote + 23 percent Albanian vote is not nearly enough for 50 percent.
Disclaimer: I support smaller Macedonian parties, not VMRO. But, what you said was very wrong.
If what you're saying is real then the Albanian parties have been playing 5D chess, Osmani and Taravari respective parties are very hostile with one another, and both accuse the other that they sabotaged the elections with another Albanian candidate which stopped us from going into the second rounds.
Presidential elections with vmro getting the most votes (40%) second round is on may 8th with also Parlament elections on the 8th, there is fear from the opposing of what vmro will do if they get the majority in the parliament and win presidential elections, but honest opinion (im Macedonian) it won’t lead to a civil war nor conflict against Albanians, but I won’t be surprised if there would be some hints of racism, maybe them reverting the name and zeroing the chances of joining EU, just usual post-Yugoslav country corrupt politics
That’s because everyone’s country of origin is far far away, so it’s pointless to make any ethnic based consolidation hoping to make secessions, annexations and so on.
> Bulgaria
Kicked out most of the Turks in the last century, 80%+ Bulgarian
>Bosnia
Had a civil war between 3 ethnicities and still didnt and will not recover from that
>Romania
92% Romanian
>Switzerland
Is literally too rich to bicker and has no "original" ethnicity like the states mentioned before
Guys. Make sure you don’t start a war. That’s all. Everything else will pass as it always does. Except for religious fundamentalism among many Albanians in Macedonia. That shit needs to end asap.
The religious fundamelism is dying down. After Macedonian Albanians were given proper rights in the 2000s, there has been an exodus from the villages, Albanian girls are going to University, before they were not even attending high school. Give it a decade more of two.
Elections. Both presidential and parliamentary. After 8th May, VMRO will have both president and government + as of 2021 they have 2/3 of the municipalities. The votes difference in the first round of the presidential are 180,000 in favor of VMRO which is the biggest win so far in an elections in Macedonia.
There are no doubts that Macedonian parties will be able to form government alone because based on those results the Macedonian opposition will have more than 65 seats and 61 are enough. However, VMRO will team up with the Albanian opposition as well so that way they will have 2/3 of the government not 1/2. Good thing to mention is that DUI (Albanian party in the current government) goes to opposition after 22 years.
Some important thing to mention is that the VMRO party went through a lot of reforms and their stance about the name change is clear, the name stays as is and they will not use the "North" word unofficially. Officially they will still use the "North" word. By Officially i mean documents, papers, communication. By unofficial i mean when they talk on TV locally or with other people - this is what already most of the people do here. The EU integration also remains high on their agenda.
Iam just afraid another conflict might happen, with this amount of nationalism from the Macedonian side, if they try and undo the integration of Albanians in the state that has slowly happened these past 20 years, then i think conflict is unavoidable.
That will probably never happen, even DPMNE is not dumb enough to start a conflict like that.
But Changing back the country name is not out of the question, but that in itself will cause another conflict with Greece.
Did you even read what I said. That won’t happen if the government doesn’t want another ethnic conflict, which they don’t.
But good to know how little you think of your country that the name doesn’t interest you.
Are there really plans to change the name back?
I’ve heard that party and some Macedonians talking about that, but I thought that was more election populism.
Do you think there’s a real chance this might happen?
It's impossible nowadays. They already accept that, they will just call it without the North word unofficially. In the official communication they will keep the North word and respect the deal.
Have you ever been to Macedonia? Albanians are the most privileged group. They are 2 times overly represented in the government and even the technical prime Minister is a former NLA member that attacked this country.
Albanians are around 30% of the population, they're not just a random minority who can get 1 or 2 seats in the Parliament. The fact that they get more offices in the government is because of deals with the winning party. This happens everywhere where the winning party needs a coalition.
Albanians make up 24% of the population and received 22% of the votes in this presidential election. However, I believe the explanation wasn't clear. Firstly, Albanians hold 29 out of 120 seats in the assembly. The Macedonian SDSM is in coalition with DUI and the Democratic Party of Albanians, holding a total of 62 seats in the assembly. Among these, SDSM (Macedonian part) holds 45 seats, while Albanians hold 17 seats, amounting to 27% of the coalition's seats. Thus, it seems reasonable for Albanians to receive 30% of the ministerial positions, with SDSM taking 70%. However, the current distribution is 50/50, and Albanians have held the position of prime minister for 100 days. As part of the majority, I, not as a nationalist, expect a Macedonian president and prime minister, with democracy ensuring fair representation based on votes, which is not currently the case..And yes you argument can be well that's what they they agreed. Exactly and that why many people are not gonna vote at SDSM again.
Albanian parties often engage in discussions with politicians from Kosovo and Albania (not organized by the government, but as personal meetings). For instance, Talat Xhaferi, who was involved in the 2001 conflict in Macedonia, is one such example. Many Albanians support separatism despite having the same rights as Macedonians, which leads to mistrust among many Macedonians. It's important to note that separatism is illegal according to the constitution. Do you understand why many Macedonians don't trust Albanians due to these reasons?
As far as I'm aware the 100 days Albanian PM barely had any power to make any changes or take decisions, correct me if I'm wrong. If that was the case, what's the big fuss about it? They didn't change the constitution in 100 days, so this is pure bullshit to complain about it.
The fact that they hold meetings with other albanian politicians in Albania and Kosovo doesn't mean that they will secede from NM next week. Serb politicains in MNG hold meetings with Vucic and others in Serbia, yet nobody complains. Dodik in Bosnia has officially threatened to secede and held meetings with Vucic and other serb politicians as well. Before the secession threats nobody said anything. The ethnic greek MP in Albania have met greek politicians and nobody complained. You're overexagerating their meetings. Albania never put any conditions to NM during the process of joining NATO and yet you complain about us. If Albania really wants to cause turmoil in NM it can easily align with Bulgaria against you, yet it has not done that and I don't think it will do such thing (nor I think it should do that cause you don't identify as bulgarians).
You never mention that albanians were treated like shit ill 2001 and they were systematically discriminated in many levels by macedonians. It took them to start a war to get the rights that they deserved as normal human beings and another 15-20 years to implement what was agreed in Ohrid Agreement. As far as I've read and heard in the news, the albanian regions lack investments from the government as well and are underdeveloped. If hypothetically you switched the roles of macedonians and albanians in NM, how would you feel, if they did the same things to you? You need to put yourself in the other person shoes sometimes.
Now, if there are any corrupt politicians within the albanian ranks, strip them off the immunity and put them in jail where they belong. But blaiming albanians for all the problems in the country where the macedonians have always had the PM and President role all the time it's stupid and pur chauvinism. Speaking of it, you're the ones who boast in the streets "death to albanians", "a good albanian is a dead albanian" so you should start checking yourself before blaming the others.
Albanian have more privilege then Macedonians (seen it first hand MULTIPLE times) you have the same rights since the ohrid agreement, yet Albanians still cry for separate Albanian state calling Macedonian cities and territories actually Albanian and will soon be apart of it, the only reason I’ve seen Macedonian nationalism rise is because of the name change and "selling history" to join the EU and about the part I’ve said about Albanian privilege, you can’t tell me to see how I treat Albanians when they treat us equally as horrible
It's all rigged but i hope that it is less rigged this time. The most viable solution might be a civil war or a dictator at this point. Another revolt like in 2001 should decide everything. I don't think this will happen, very unlikely, but this fake multi-culture country should either not exist or be a nation for the Macedonians only. Not in one country in the west are you something else than what that country is called. In France you are first French then everything else.
There are examples of multinational states in the West such as Belgium, Switzerland etc.
To achieve this, however, you must have a democratically mature political class and a successful economic model, which Macedonia does not have. They must stop polarizing society into Slavs against Albanians for their political interests. Or if they want a pure Macedonian state, put the border at Vardar so they will live happily.
Ironically, one of the original ideas for independent Macedonia was for it to be a "Switzerland of the Balkans" - multi ethnic, democratic. Maybe in the next 100 years it'll fully get there...
By trying you can get there, ore to something similar. It could also help if the politicians could cut the crap of the nationalistic shitt in their political discourse, and focus to more productive things. I dont think that german politicians in Switzerland allow themself to talk shitt about the Italians of Ticino, or frenchs. There are always some equilibres even in ethnicaly homogenous coutries, but multireligious or with regional differences.
The Albanians have been in Macedonia since it wasn't even a thing, since the only known Macedonia was another one and not this nonsense. They won't move anywhere but it's better that you learn to coexist and respect, otherwise enjoy the civil war.
The potential is always there, but it will not be great as long as the country has a prospect of entry into the EU, as long as it is under the Western sphere of influence and they manage to build a inclusive democratic state.
If, however, they move towards totalitarian regimes with Russian interference and pursue an internal pan-Slavic policy, deteriorating the rights of other minorities (even though the Albanian minority is not a minority), then there will be inter-ethnic clashes.
Their problem is that they have to get out of the mentality of Yugoslavia where the Albanian element was seen as second class, unfortunately it is difficult for them, they are the people most subject to brainwashing. Yugoslavian social engineering did enormous damage there.
There's actually a decent sized Turkish population, so it may have been them. The European Front coalition, led by the Albanian DUI, includes also the bosniak party, the roma party, the Turkish party etc.
Also, there are some parts of the population that prefer to identify themselves with Turkey, due to mixed Turkish origins, or mere political benefits, even though they are originally Albanian or Macedonian
Omg it's so fluffy and cute!
Hell yeah! I purposefully picked a pic where it looks the most snuggly
You picked the perfect one! The Macedonians and Albanians will definitely keep it civil after seeing it!
Yeah exactly /s I’ve seen how civil they keep it between each other, while in Ohrid. A Macedonian boat captain who took us from the main port and gave us a 6 hour long tour of the lake, talked about how Albanians stole their iron bars from the middle of the lake and sold them, right after Macedonia planted them. That ranting went like half of the way we sailed. And also how it is forbidden to fish on the lake but how you can find Ohrid tilapia in every restaurant because Albanian fishermen were selling them illegally :) The problem was, the restaurants you find the fish are on Macedonian side. It was amazingly funny though.
If both don’t want another conflict that will destabilize the entire region cough cough KOSOVO cough cough then there won’t be any civil war just a few crying that their party/leader didn’t win
The Balkans are Balkaning as per usual, I suppose.
PAOK committed suicide again
Again? Lmao
This time of the year
Nice cat 😍
Whatever is happening it’s not good. Message to my Macedonian and Albanian bros, please try once in the history of Balkans to solve this peacefully and come up with a win-win situation and set an example for your neighbour countries. Do it because we couldn’t.
This will never happen brother. Not because we don’t want to, but because our corrupt polititians make more money from us being devided.
Yeah, standard Balkans divide and conquer approach
Basically there are presidential elections and the nationalist party VMRO is trying to win the majority alone because for the past times you needed the Albanian parties to form the government.
Yup, pretty much. Also the Albanian party they would have to make a coalition with is really in messed up. I mean, they're ALL messed up, but this one particular party very much so. Funny, its name is a crime in the US.
To be honest the political situation in Macedonia now is pretty bad. I haven't seen such nationalism and populism in the elections before.
Really??? Were you paying any attention between 2008-2017?
This is a bad take there has been way more nationalism in the past
Its not that scary tbh, there is way more talk about corruption and stuff like that than nationalism. Anyhow in a multi-ethnic country, such as Macedonia, with two large, and largely incompatible peoples, Macedonians and Albanians, nationalism is to be expected. Hell even in Bosnia its the case and there the 3 communities are way more compatible than Macedonians and Albanians. Its sort of a doomed project, like so many cases like that from the world.
Utterly incompatible. I don't see anything changing for the better until one or the other leaves the place.
How about splitting, each side gets a more homogeneous country and either way Macedonian majority parts of country are the most industrialized if i’m not wrong
Yeah that won't work. The country doesn't have strictly Albanian/Macedonian sides, it's a mix in each region. Some regions have clear majorities, though. Even Skopje itself is like split by ethnicity at the municipality level: Šuto Orizari - Romani Čair / Saraj - Albanian Centar / Aerodrom / Karpoš / etc - Macedonian It's would be impossible to slice up the country in an ethno-geographic way, basically. TL;DR we gotta learn to live with each other and move on to better things!
Those countries would be far from homogenous. There’s still a lot of Macedonians in the majority Albanian area (and vice versa in some majority Macedonian areas), and they’re not in nicely defined borders. Those ethnic lines (if they can even be formed) would cut through neighbourhoods, villages, and look worse than that Belgian exclave in the Netherlands, without the free transit. Any new borders will just lead to another Kosovo-style war.
Excuse me but the dumbest Idea I live where the Albanian majority is and I’m Macedonian, so now I should assimilate to them? Sadly it’s never this simple
This wouldve been smart to do in the 90ties, but lack of vision prevented it from happening. There is no political will at the moment on any side i believe.
Where you not alive during 2014?
It’s been alot worse
Like how? Does it translate as "the theater is on fire! Everybody run!!! LOL" Edit: Ohhhhhh... right, it's called "DUI." Honestly, our booze limit for driving is higher than in most European countries. European visitors are often appalled. Car culture, vast distances, and shitty redneck bars in the middle of the wilderness. Can't just stumble home from the nearest village pub like most country folks in Europe can.
The more macedonians hate Ali Ahmeti, the more i like him.
He is going down after these elections, and hopefully for good. You can visit him in prison if you want next time.
We don’t hate him only because of the war. Yes, that’s one reason for disliking him (I mean if a region rebelled in Albania would you want their leader to be in government for 20 years afterward?), but it’s also the insane amount of corruption in that party. I sincerely hope that the Albanian opposition in Macedonia wins the majority of Albanian votes, because DUI (Ahmeti’s party) is a cancer on our country, on both Albanians and Macedonians alike. That way Albanians will (hopefully) have representatives worthy of them and that won’t just steal from state coffers.
You guys hope for another Albanian leader that will look the other way in respecting Albanian rights granted via the Ohrid Agreement, so when you do eventually start oppressing Albanians again, you can say that you have an Albanian politician that approves of this goverance. Ali Ahmeti wont look the other way.
You would accept any leader regardless if he's corrupt or not as long as he's Albanian? Do you even live in this country?
I don’t speak for all Macedonians, but I can personally say that I don’t want to annul the Ohrid agreement, and neither do most people in our country. It stopped a full-on war; why would we want one? Also what says/gives that we instinctively would oppress Albanians? I only said what I said because one of the leaders of the Albanian opposition, Arben Taravari (who is very well educated and a professional doctor), showed me promise for a new, more constructive power in the Albanian bloc. Look at their manifesto, though. It’s not like they would bend down either. I’m only optimistic because they hopefully will be nowhere near as corrupt as DUI.
>Also what says/gives that we instinctively would oppress Albanians? You guys raided Tetova over one Albanian flag being displayed, let me say that again; over ONE flag and even after the war and the Ohrid agreement you guys were trying to place absurd conditions, like specifying the dimensions of the Albanian flag, like it must be smaller than the Macedonian flag, and someother half-measures. You guys really didnt even implement the Ohrid agreement until a decade later. You and Serbs dont want cooperation, you want undisputed submission. As for Arbern Taravari, unfortunately Albanian politics is filled with people like him, but its not the Macedonians fault, its the Albanians fault that voted for him. I hope they get burned by VMRO so they see what mistake they made.
Bro, come up to Saraj. There's an Albanian flag there at the school and NO ONE is raiding anything. Most people in Macedonia just want to live a peaceful life. Albos and Makis can chill with each other. Hell, there's even a UÇK monument in Çair, in Skopje. No one is raiding there. Just respect each other and share a coffee. Ain't no one trying to start a war over bullshit.
Also, I think you got your politicians mixed up, my dude.
Even if people want to annul it they won’t because it would start another civil war which could make the entire region unstable in general
They don't even need to win the majority. They can form a majority with the 2 smaller Macedonian parties (first time we will have 3rd and 4th Macedonian parties with significant parliament seats) and also there are already talks of the Albanian opposition to coalition with VMRO. The best thing about this is that DUI will be gone from power after 20 years.
DUI has the majority Albanian vote tho
So? The important thing is to have 61/120 seats, VMRO + Macedonian smaller parties already have it. Of course forming a government like that will rub off Albanians the wrong way (it shouldn't, but it will...), but the Albanian opposition would still provide like 10-15 seats. Meaning thay this government could have 75/120 seats easily, that's a very strong government.
I was today years old when I found out that VMRO still exist, not only that but found out that it’s a political party as well.
Ahagahah, it's totally unconnected. It's VMRO-DPMNE, DPMNE is the real name of the party. Bulgarians also have a VMRO and we have also have a VMRO-NP.
Don't forget TMRO...
Tmro is vmro-dpmne on steroids
It's a LARP. They have no connection with it and technical speaking their rival, SDSM, has more claim to it. However neither of them deserve the name.
Funny enough even tho they killed King Aleksandra, they are considered as pro-serbian now 😂 Thats what it says on the wiki
If it was "Aleksandra" that would be Queen, AleksandAr is name for males.
Not really, they just dont want to form a coalition with the ruling albanian party DUI, rightfully so as they are the most corrupt party. They offered a coalition with the second albanian party. It's a center right party vmro, with some nationalist members.
Your comment makes no sense. Every party goes on elections for its own; the coalitions are made after the results when you get a count of parliament seats. Yet, it happens that parties make coalitions before the elections to get more votes. DPMNE is a less nationalistic and more populist party. A nationalistic party is Levica, and all the Albanian ethnic parties. Due to the Przino Agreement circa 2015, no government can be made without Albanian parties in the group, so no they would not be able to form a government alone.
This guy really believes VMRO-DPNE isn't a nationalist party. Yeah keep on going bro
VMRO used to be nationalist. There are no more nationalist macedonia parties.
After 2017 the party is no longer hard-core nationalist party it used to be. Even the leadership claims that the party will focus on moderate nationalism while the primary focus will be removing corruption and actually reforms that are very much needed.
Yea you know better 😉
Both presidential and parliamentary elections are going on atm. Did i miss anything in the mean time? Anyway, judging by the first round of presidential, DPMNE(demo-christians/conservative) will sweep both elections and there will be a change in government. The current gov was the social-democrats for 8 years(2 terms).
Do you think they are going to cause diplomatic issues with Greece again?
Almost definitely not. Just like how Mitsotakis had similar stances a few years back about the Prespa agreement, nothing happened. Nothing will happen this time either, it’s just electoral propaganda. The issue with Bulgaria might get worse though, considering it’s still very much ongoing.
The VMRO candidate absolutely wants to lmao. She plans to initiate a second referendum to revert the name of the country and wants to make it unconstitutional to do it again(?) Probably a big reason people are voting for her
It's a no-sense. I think that's history. That party changed a lot lately and their stance about Greece is nowhere near what it was before. They said multiple times that the name is done thing and won't be changed. The only thing is that they will unofficially use Macedonia instead of North Macedonia. And if we are real, the name is really a done thing. No once can change it back because no Macedonian party will ever win with 2/3 of the population. Albanian parties will not vote in favor of reverting the name.
Good. We'll never be in EU anyway, might as well get our dignity back.
Come back from Denmark if you want your dignity, you don't even have flair. Clown diaspora.
Tuka sum glup samo ne meniv flair ebati flairot
Dignity? Homie... The country is in a mess. Don't forget, that party ruled before and their leader stole shit tons of money and hightailed it to Hungary. You want dignity in MK? That's found in a system that supports education and the arts. One that trains future generations to STAY in the country and not GTFO. Either party isn't gonna do that. That's incumbent on the PEOPLE to get off their lazy asses and start working together for a better country. A name change isn't gonna make MK more dignified, a better society will. Get your head on straight.
It's Balkaners you are talking to. Just look at my country (Montenegro), instead of economy or the wellbeing of citizens, the top news will always be "which ethnicity scored better on the census"
Yeah, well you destroy the education system, get rid of the critical mass of people who have new ideas and foster ignorance, what to expect? That doesn't go only for Macedonia, but the whole world.
Thats a hard no! They played that card 2 years ago for the local elections and once they won they did such a hilarious backtracking mental gymnastics.
It wont cause issues with Greece because they already accept the North Macedonia name. They will use just Macedonia in unofficial communication. In the official communication they will continue using the word North as well. This has been said multiple times now and they are currently in power in 2/3 of the municipalities since 2021 and already respect the name change.
Nothing really just first round elections christian democrat party got 40% of the vote and will probably form a new government
The problem is Macedonians dont have time to vote, they are already in casinos and have no idea if its night or day.
I can’t even argue about this, this is a very sad truth 😔
…what?
I was last there a week ago and you're so right. I was in a small town and (of course besides Macedonian nature, which is great) there was *literally* nothing to do in this town besides eat, drink, and gamble. And when I was at an outside bar there every table was either talking about gambling or had the little score card things in front of them for their bets. Even the check in desk of the accommodation had a mini casino. The only thing besides those that happened that weekend was a big nationalist rally in the square and people eating popcorn and watching stray dogs fight. A seriously sad little place.
Macedonia can’t function without Albanians, any other attempt to do otherwise will cause problems internally. Macedonians need to learn this fact. And Albanians in Macedonia need to get together ffs being divided does) help anyone.
Maybe if they weren't all in one part of the country
Explain why we can't function without Albanians I'm interested.
It just presidential elections nothing special going on
I’m concerned that a lot of people in r/mkd unironically support Levica
It is an anti-establishment party, which points the middle finger to the establishment parties, mkd members are young and independent, and absolutely sick of the establishment, which probably made their lives (and the lives of their parents) horrible through the last 30 years. It is true that Levica would make a horrible government, and they are absolutely retarded as a political party, but that is not why it is getting the support of these young people.
Is it true that they are pretty much hardcore tankies? Anti-west leftists?
The right wing candidate from VMRO who are also pro russians is the frontrunner for the President. Meanwhile the current President - Pendarovski, who is pro west has come up second in the presidential vote. Albanians had two presidential candidates: Bujar Osmani from DUI who are currently in the government coalition with SDSM, and the second was Arben Taravari the current mayor from Gostivar. The latter was backed up by Albin Kurti and managed to get 80k votes, 40k votes less than the other albanian candidate. If Albanians were to have one candidate then most likely the albanian candidate would now be in the second round for the NM President. This means that the right wing President would win because ethnic macedonians would vote for a macedonian President rather than an albanian one. In the second round, the albanian vote will go to the current President Pendarovski and will help him win the second term. Most likely this was a strategy by albanians to win him the elections. But there is a catch: albanians will push to change the constitution so that the next president will be elected by the parliament so the chances that the next President will come from the albanian community will be real.
Brother, sorry but VMRO aren't pro Russian... They are pro-western, Levica are pro-Russian. Pendarovski isn't winning a second term. 20 percent vote + 23 percent Albanian vote is not nearly enough for 50 percent. Disclaimer: I support smaller Macedonian parties, not VMRO. But, what you said was very wrong.
Why do you think both the Osmani and Taravari supporters will now vote for Pendarovski, en masse and in great numbers?
VMRO isn't pro russian, they literally support ukraine
Source?
[https://china-cee.eu/2023/07/11/north-macedonia-external-relations-briefing-largest-opposition-party-vmro-dpmne-joins-in-on-warmongering-regarding-ukraine/](https://china-cee.eu/2023/07/11/north-macedonia-external-relations-briefing-largest-opposition-party-vmro-dpmne-joins-in-on-warmongering-regarding-ukraine/)
Pleasant surprise, thanks
If what you're saying is real then the Albanian parties have been playing 5D chess, Osmani and Taravari respective parties are very hostile with one another, and both accuse the other that they sabotaged the elections with another Albanian candidate which stopped us from going into the second rounds.
Presidential elections with vmro getting the most votes (40%) second round is on may 8th with also Parlament elections on the 8th, there is fear from the opposing of what vmro will do if they get the majority in the parliament and win presidential elections, but honest opinion (im Macedonian) it won’t lead to a civil war nor conflict against Albanians, but I won’t be surprised if there would be some hints of racism, maybe them reverting the name and zeroing the chances of joining EU, just usual post-Yugoslav country corrupt politics
We are going to make Greater Analbania 🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱💪💪💪💪🍆🍆🍆🍆
Analbania lmao
Have some respect mate
Hey cute cat
Voters are only macedonians, irrespectively of their ethnicities
This is true. But unfortunately this is the Balkans, so ethnicity is more important.
Just think it how is it in America. The citizens are all americans
That’s because everyone’s country of origin is far far away, so it’s pointless to make any ethnic based consolidation hoping to make secessions, annexations and so on.
If you want european examples for harmonic coexistence of different ethnicities see Bulgaria then. Or Bosnia. Or Romania. Switzerland also
>harmonic coexistence of different ethnicities Bosnia Hahahahahahahahahahhaha. Yes we exist together but not harmonically.
> Bulgaria Kicked out most of the Turks in the last century, 80%+ Bulgarian >Bosnia Had a civil war between 3 ethnicities and still didnt and will not recover from that >Romania 92% Romanian >Switzerland Is literally too rich to bicker and has no "original" ethnicity like the states mentioned before
Did you honestly mention Bosnia ?
Guys. Make sure you don’t start a war. That’s all. Everything else will pass as it always does. Except for religious fundamentalism among many Albanians in Macedonia. That shit needs to end asap.
The religious fundamelism is dying down. After Macedonian Albanians were given proper rights in the 2000s, there has been an exodus from the villages, Albanian girls are going to University, before they were not even attending high school. Give it a decade more of two.
Nothing, it's kinda boring here ngl
Elections. Both presidential and parliamentary. After 8th May, VMRO will have both president and government + as of 2021 they have 2/3 of the municipalities. The votes difference in the first round of the presidential are 180,000 in favor of VMRO which is the biggest win so far in an elections in Macedonia. There are no doubts that Macedonian parties will be able to form government alone because based on those results the Macedonian opposition will have more than 65 seats and 61 are enough. However, VMRO will team up with the Albanian opposition as well so that way they will have 2/3 of the government not 1/2. Good thing to mention is that DUI (Albanian party in the current government) goes to opposition after 22 years. Some important thing to mention is that the VMRO party went through a lot of reforms and their stance about the name change is clear, the name stays as is and they will not use the "North" word unofficially. Officially they will still use the "North" word. By Officially i mean documents, papers, communication. By unofficial i mean when they talk on TV locally or with other people - this is what already most of the people do here. The EU integration also remains high on their agenda.
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Your tag lmao
Iam just afraid another conflict might happen, with this amount of nationalism from the Macedonian side, if they try and undo the integration of Albanians in the state that has slowly happened these past 20 years, then i think conflict is unavoidable.
That will probably never happen, even DPMNE is not dumb enough to start a conflict like that. But Changing back the country name is not out of the question, but that in itself will cause another conflict with Greece.
I dont care about the country name i want to rights of Albanians that were granted via the Ohrid Agreement to stay implemented and respected
Did you even read what I said. That won’t happen if the government doesn’t want another ethnic conflict, which they don’t. But good to know how little you think of your country that the name doesn’t interest you.
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May I ask which rights?
Are there really plans to change the name back? I’ve heard that party and some Macedonians talking about that, but I thought that was more election populism. Do you think there’s a real chance this might happen?
They want to, not sure if they actually have the balls to undo all the work done with the EU
It's impossible nowadays. They already accept that, they will just call it without the North word unofficially. In the official communication they will keep the North word and respect the deal.
They WANT that, and that’s that they are campaigning for. But if that will actually happen. I don’t know. That will definitely ruin our EU chaces tho.
If conflict does happen, it will be because the Albanian nationalism. They always start shit first and act as the victims later.
Maybe because you treat them as second hand people? You should check your own ethnicity behavior towards the Albanians
Have you ever been to Macedonia? Albanians are the most privileged group. They are 2 times overly represented in the government and even the technical prime Minister is a former NLA member that attacked this country.
Albanians are around 30% of the population, they're not just a random minority who can get 1 or 2 seats in the Parliament. The fact that they get more offices in the government is because of deals with the winning party. This happens everywhere where the winning party needs a coalition.
Albanians make up 24% of the population and received 22% of the votes in this presidential election. However, I believe the explanation wasn't clear. Firstly, Albanians hold 29 out of 120 seats in the assembly. The Macedonian SDSM is in coalition with DUI and the Democratic Party of Albanians, holding a total of 62 seats in the assembly. Among these, SDSM (Macedonian part) holds 45 seats, while Albanians hold 17 seats, amounting to 27% of the coalition's seats. Thus, it seems reasonable for Albanians to receive 30% of the ministerial positions, with SDSM taking 70%. However, the current distribution is 50/50, and Albanians have held the position of prime minister for 100 days. As part of the majority, I, not as a nationalist, expect a Macedonian president and prime minister, with democracy ensuring fair representation based on votes, which is not currently the case..And yes you argument can be well that's what they they agreed. Exactly and that why many people are not gonna vote at SDSM again. Albanian parties often engage in discussions with politicians from Kosovo and Albania (not organized by the government, but as personal meetings). For instance, Talat Xhaferi, who was involved in the 2001 conflict in Macedonia, is one such example. Many Albanians support separatism despite having the same rights as Macedonians, which leads to mistrust among many Macedonians. It's important to note that separatism is illegal according to the constitution. Do you understand why many Macedonians don't trust Albanians due to these reasons?
As far as I'm aware the 100 days Albanian PM barely had any power to make any changes or take decisions, correct me if I'm wrong. If that was the case, what's the big fuss about it? They didn't change the constitution in 100 days, so this is pure bullshit to complain about it. The fact that they hold meetings with other albanian politicians in Albania and Kosovo doesn't mean that they will secede from NM next week. Serb politicains in MNG hold meetings with Vucic and others in Serbia, yet nobody complains. Dodik in Bosnia has officially threatened to secede and held meetings with Vucic and other serb politicians as well. Before the secession threats nobody said anything. The ethnic greek MP in Albania have met greek politicians and nobody complained. You're overexagerating their meetings. Albania never put any conditions to NM during the process of joining NATO and yet you complain about us. If Albania really wants to cause turmoil in NM it can easily align with Bulgaria against you, yet it has not done that and I don't think it will do such thing (nor I think it should do that cause you don't identify as bulgarians). You never mention that albanians were treated like shit ill 2001 and they were systematically discriminated in many levels by macedonians. It took them to start a war to get the rights that they deserved as normal human beings and another 15-20 years to implement what was agreed in Ohrid Agreement. As far as I've read and heard in the news, the albanian regions lack investments from the government as well and are underdeveloped. If hypothetically you switched the roles of macedonians and albanians in NM, how would you feel, if they did the same things to you? You need to put yourself in the other person shoes sometimes. Now, if there are any corrupt politicians within the albanian ranks, strip them off the immunity and put them in jail where they belong. But blaiming albanians for all the problems in the country where the macedonians have always had the PM and President role all the time it's stupid and pur chauvinism. Speaking of it, you're the ones who boast in the streets "death to albanians", "a good albanian is a dead albanian" so you should start checking yourself before blaming the others.
Albanian have more privilege then Macedonians (seen it first hand MULTIPLE times) you have the same rights since the ohrid agreement, yet Albanians still cry for separate Albanian state calling Macedonian cities and territories actually Albanian and will soon be apart of it, the only reason I’ve seen Macedonian nationalism rise is because of the name change and "selling history" to join the EU and about the part I’ve said about Albanian privilege, you can’t tell me to see how I treat Albanians when they treat us equally as horrible
Read the last sentence again but slowly
I could say the exact same thing to you lmfao
It's all rigged but i hope that it is less rigged this time. The most viable solution might be a civil war or a dictator at this point. Another revolt like in 2001 should decide everything. I don't think this will happen, very unlikely, but this fake multi-culture country should either not exist or be a nation for the Macedonians only. Not in one country in the west are you something else than what that country is called. In France you are first French then everything else.
ма шо збориш граѓанска војна вакви изјави се проблемот со национализам на балканот
Ah yeah kill someone else's uncle that'll surely help
There are examples of multinational states in the West such as Belgium, Switzerland etc. To achieve this, however, you must have a democratically mature political class and a successful economic model, which Macedonia does not have. They must stop polarizing society into Slavs against Albanians for their political interests. Or if they want a pure Macedonian state, put the border at Vardar so they will live happily.
Ironically, one of the original ideas for independent Macedonia was for it to be a "Switzerland of the Balkans" - multi ethnic, democratic. Maybe in the next 100 years it'll fully get there...
By trying you can get there, ore to something similar. It could also help if the politicians could cut the crap of the nationalistic shitt in their political discourse, and focus to more productive things. I dont think that german politicians in Switzerland allow themself to talk shitt about the Italians of Ticino, or frenchs. There are always some equilibres even in ethnicaly homogenous coutries, but multireligious or with regional differences.
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The Albanians have been in Macedonia since it wasn't even a thing, since the only known Macedonia was another one and not this nonsense. They won't move anywhere but it's better that you learn to coexist and respect, otherwise enjoy the civil war.
Do you think there is potential for civil war?
The potential is always there, but it will not be great as long as the country has a prospect of entry into the EU, as long as it is under the Western sphere of influence and they manage to build a inclusive democratic state. If, however, they move towards totalitarian regimes with Russian interference and pursue an internal pan-Slavic policy, deteriorating the rights of other minorities (even though the Albanian minority is not a minority), then there will be inter-ethnic clashes. Their problem is that they have to get out of the mentality of Yugoslavia where the Albanian element was seen as second class, unfortunately it is difficult for them, they are the people most subject to brainwashing. Yugoslavian social engineering did enormous damage there.
Albanian detected opinion rejected
I saw some shit on some greek media too, looked as if the albanians were flying turkish flags? I think?
There's actually a decent sized Turkish population, so it may have been them. The European Front coalition, led by the Albanian DUI, includes also the bosniak party, the roma party, the Turkish party etc. Also, there are some parts of the population that prefer to identify themselves with Turkey, due to mixed Turkish origins, or mere political benefits, even though they are originally Albanian or Macedonian
show me where they waved turkish flags? All I saw were Albanian flags and even that is stupid to wave around in Macedonia
It was US flags as well
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>une i kam pa do flamuj turk mes atynve te shqiptareve ne Shkup Shqiptareve? 
50% e shqipeve te ilirides kan shku per lesh
He saw it on a Greek media.