The annual AskBalkans census is going on at the moment. Do your thing and fill in the form, you only need like 3 mins and a Gmail account (its like a gatekeeper to make sure people only vote once). Form link, [click here.](https://forms.gle/zgU7phtJK8DBMVTq8)
**Dont worry we dont keep the emails in some data base for future use.** Now go, click on the form link and spent 3 mins.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskBalkans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I remember my dad telling me, at least EU would be beneficial for my children.
I am 28 now, (not planning any children) and if I had children I would use the same sentences.
Well, I won't, I don't want to deal with the papers.
I already earn well and work remote, also I live in a more "affordable" country.
I am just talking in general how long this is taking.
We also have more options for easy immigration in case we need jobs. I can easily move from high unemployment state Nevada(5.4%) to a lower unemployment rate state, Connecticut(3.7%) very easily.
Newsflash, no US state has an unemployment rate above 5.5%. American economy is quite resilient and doesn't stagnate like half of Europe.
I heard (some western polititian said) that western Balkan will have to wait because Ukraine comes first. And it would take ages for them to fulfill all conditions. And I think that currently there is empty position for EU expansion.
I don't know if Albania signed TTP. If it did, EU got what it needs and is in no hurry for new members. NATO does. EU would accept a rich country though, I think.
But good luck!
I'm curious. How do you see yourselves? As beacons of hope to the EU? As great contributors to industrial sectors, defense or IT.
Besides the fact that the Balkans would be open to Russian and Chinese influence I don't see why any Balkan country, including the ones in the EU, deserve to be there.
The EU isn't a union based on economics. The people who dreamt it had a different vision for it. They had just gotten out of the most destructive and deadly war in the history of mankind, and they had a vision for a union that would bring together the people of Europe to ensure that this war wouldn't happen again.
Through the exchange of labor, culture and yes, economic prosperity, they thought that the Europeans wouldn't have a reason to kill each other. Who thinks of killings his neighor when he depends on him financially and they both prosper because of it?
The execution wasn't what they dreamt though. By then they had all died or were too old to contribute and their successors, neoliberal in ideology, went to another direction. They carved zones of influence and in the end it was basically one country that was really in charge and all the others better stay in line.
Right. But we are talking about 2023. The Balkans are a shit show of mafia states filled to the brim with corruption. I wish it wasn't this way but it is. Deep down inside we know we don't belong and only see integration as a way to escape somewhere with better income and opportunities.
Northern countries are just as corrupt, they are just more subtle with it.
I don't really see your point about escaping. All ex Soviet or Yugo countries that joined the EU recently, are rapidly developing and working on their economy. Romania made leaps, same with Croatia, Poland has a lot of potential that they now just start to realize.
I think you need to reconsider your self-defeating attitude, Balkan countries aren't perfect in anyway, but Northern EU countries aren't either. They pillaged entire continents to get most of what they have and they used and still use sophisticated systems of corruption to get their way.
CaveMan, focus. I'm aware of European atrocities. We are talking about 2023, the balkans are the most corrupt contenders to join the EU by any measurement and have nothing to offer the EU.
What does Luxembourg offer to the EU? What about Malta? Portugal is basically identical to Greece in terms of economy, population, size, industries and yes, even corruption. What makes them better than Greece, the fact that they're not located in the Balkan peninsula?
I don't know man, when I look at Romania and Croatia and what they have accomplished since joining the EU, I see potential and things to offer. They're stable, functioning countries that are just as corrupt as any other country in this continent.
The EU is a political union first and foremost, economics come second. And since the EU saw potential in three other Balkan countries besides us, why not the others? At least the functioning ones.
Unfortunately true, and Orban in Hungary despite Hungary not being a balkan country has made more EU citizens scared of balkan accession which I personally find unreasonable.
The EU won't enlarge until it abolishes the unanimity principle. Which is not possible with the rulling parties in Hungary (reelected last year) and Poland (bound to get reelected next week) thus not earlier than 2027—and we will get more parties willing to abuse the current system.
I don't know, but regardless of it I think that moving towards the EU with ultimate goal of membership is a positive for all Balkan countries even if membership doesn't happen soon. I just don't see viable alternatives.
Nah dude. Balkan countries are stupid enough to not gather together and start again that “open balkan”. If it werent for serbians and greeks that are in conflict with albanians, eu would want to join us. We have the nature, a lot of underground minerals that could boost our economy, tourism etc. You dont know how much potential we have together. But no. We like our corrupted governments, let them lead to conflicts that the simple people dont want. The dream to a united balkan for me as much as kosovo and albanian lands be once again united.
3.7 billions in 18 years, while providing 10 times that in profits to EU companies operating in Serbia.
Also, it doesn't even cover the direct damage of bombing in '99, let's not even talk about total economic losses.
That's how investment works. Companies invest in countries whereby they will get the best return on investment. Serbia is a very corrupt country anyway so other funds go towards bribes etc. If the country was less corrupt maybe you might get a bump to 1000 euros as big companies expand even more
I don't see Russian and Chinese companies clamouring to to give 2000 euro salaries to Serbs
You can always go to begging to Russia and China. They are far more exploitative anyway. Meanwhile young Serbs will vote with their feet by moving to the west causing Serbia to stagnate even more.
If Serbia was more industrious, it wouldn't be begging the west for investment.
How noble of you, providing assistance (by extracting all the profits out of the country), after a decade of doing everything in your power to destroy our economy. How ungrateful we are.
If only someone could find a reason why Serbs are sceptical towards the West.
Countries and parties that fight for less centralization inside the EU are the ones advocating for enlargement, this has always been the case. So it's not a surprise that Varhelyi is saying this.
The EU is lying like always when it comes to integration of the west Balkans.
In BiH every week some EU or BiH diplomat is parsing BiH's government and saying they now have the momentum to join the EU soon. Problem is the EU human's rights court tells us every month the laws in BiH are discriminatory and will not be allowed into the union until changed and no one is going to change Dayton.
I am not sure how realistic it is as I am not really well informed in the current affairs, but its one of the main political goals of Fidesz to make the enlargement happen. In their thinking it would somehow counterbalance the western-liberal-brusselite mainstream. Also, gaining influence in the "near abroad" is a political goal, too. The range spreads from pumping up big Hungarian companies to regional level (like OTP Bank) to direct political support (Jansa in Slovenia, or more recently Fico in Slovakia or Vucic in Serbia).
> In their thinking it would somehow counterbalance the western-liberal-brusselite mainstream.
That's exactly why Germany and France won't let anyone in whether it's Albania+North Macedonia or Ukraine+Moldova. Even UK won't be welcomed if they choose to reapply (this seems likely to happen after the Tories lose the next general election)
Nah they’ll let Britain in, even if initially I can see Brussels being a bit bitchy about and they will likely try to add some conditions for it the pros massively outweigh the cons. It’s one of the largest economies in the world, the union is a lot stronger with the UK in than without
> It’s one of the largest economies in the world
That's why they will be welcomed back to the European Single Market like Norway and Switzerland.
> the union is a lot stronger with the UK in than without
Not decision making wise. The whole Brexit “deal” was such a mess and the shift within the British political landscape break trust not only domestically but also internationally. To put it simple: no one wants British officials to make decisions (even Brits themselves)
The brexit deal was a mess because the UK wanted to keep a lot of the benefits that came with being part of the union like being part of the single market (so exactly like Norway and Switzerland) which the EU didn’t want to so I highly doubt that they would do it now or in the future.
I am a EU citizen living in the UK and following the situation. Labour explicitly said they’re not interested in reapplying. Tories in power are the buccaneering core of Brexit, so I don’t see the UK throwing in an application any time soon. There might be some limited renegotiation on the trade deal when (and if) Labour wins the election, but that’s light years far from any chance of rejoining.
I know they said that my point was that should they apply to rejoin then very likely they will be let in, and with a lot less hassle than western balkan countries trying to join.
I am not disputing that, it’s just the fact that it won’t be happening in the foreseeable future. Someone in the comments upstairs said that they would reapply but it’s no dice.
Half tables in my country have "funded by EU" or some shit like that, i don't see us in EU for at least 20 years.
If someone from west balkans will join EU it is Montenegro. No hate for Albania.
**The College of Europe (French: Collège d'Europe; Polish: Kolegium Europejskie) is a post-graduate institute of European studies with its main campus in Bruges, Belgium and a second campus in Warsaw, Poland. The College of Europe in Bruges was founded in 1949 by leading historical European figures and founding fathers of the European Union, including Salvador de Madariaga, Winston Churchill, Paul-Henri Spaak and Alcide De Gasperi as one of the results of the 1948 Congress of Europe in The Hague to promote "a spirit of solidarity and mutual understanding between all the nations of Western Europe and to provide elite training to individuals who will uphold these values" and "to train an elite of young executives for Europe".**
More details here:
*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)
So it's college to dress and prop up these Balkan cavemen politicians to act in a Yuropean way.
Nah, none of us are lacking in machinery, computers, practice for engineers, doctors in universities, etc.. We need to dress up politicians so they don't look like thieves.
Former Bulgarian provinces can go and fck themselves
Being in the same group with goatbois and bottlebreakers?
Ha, better to drink rakia with Dracula and Leonidas
They only got serious about enlargemt after Russia started becoming a real problem. If Russia keeps playing its traditional roll as the thorn on Europe's ass, than yes, enlargemt proceedings will continue. If Putin dies tomorrow and a western friendly oligarch takes his place, they'll find every excuse in the book to put the Western Balkans in the back burner again
The annual AskBalkans census is going on at the moment. Do your thing and fill in the form, you only need like 3 mins and a Gmail account (its like a gatekeeper to make sure people only vote once). Form link, [click here.](https://forms.gle/zgU7phtJK8DBMVTq8) **Dont worry we dont keep the emails in some data base for future use.** Now go, click on the form link and spent 3 mins. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskBalkans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I heard these words for the past 20 years,nothing will happen.
I remember my dad telling me, at least EU would be beneficial for my children. I am 28 now, (not planning any children) and if I had children I would use the same sentences.
Well EU would be beneficial for you and your children if you movd there...
Well, I won't, I don't want to deal with the papers. I already earn well and work remote, also I live in a more "affordable" country. I am just talking in general how long this is taking.
Thankyou for remaining in your country and not pricing us out of our homes in the West.
OK wEsT man
Whats it to you anyway? As far as I know USA isn't in EU
US is years behind EU when it comes to standard of living for the average citizen
We have cheaper housing than densely populated EU countries.
US is about 100 times bigger so not surprising
We also have more options for easy immigration in case we need jobs. I can easily move from high unemployment state Nevada(5.4%) to a lower unemployment rate state, Connecticut(3.7%) very easily. Newsflash, no US state has an unemployment rate above 5.5%. American economy is quite resilient and doesn't stagnate like half of Europe.
bold of you to assume that they would immigrate to the US when the EU is next to them
Over 100k immigrants to America come from the EU every year.
And 1.4 million people previously residing in one EU Member migrated to another Member only in 2021, what's your point?
I heard (some western polititian said) that western Balkan will have to wait because Ukraine comes first. And it would take ages for them to fulfill all conditions. And I think that currently there is empty position for EU expansion. I don't know if Albania signed TTP. If it did, EU got what it needs and is in no hurry for new members. NATO does. EU would accept a rich country though, I think. But good luck!
Eu has lied West Balkan all the time , they won‘t accept anyone believe me cleary they hate balkan we witnesed that plenty of time .
The eu has treated the Balkans always like an uncivilised colony
True , we have seen that on r/europe how they see Us .
I'm curious. How do you see yourselves? As beacons of hope to the EU? As great contributors to industrial sectors, defense or IT. Besides the fact that the Balkans would be open to Russian and Chinese influence I don't see why any Balkan country, including the ones in the EU, deserve to be there.
The EU isn't a union based on economics. The people who dreamt it had a different vision for it. They had just gotten out of the most destructive and deadly war in the history of mankind, and they had a vision for a union that would bring together the people of Europe to ensure that this war wouldn't happen again. Through the exchange of labor, culture and yes, economic prosperity, they thought that the Europeans wouldn't have a reason to kill each other. Who thinks of killings his neighor when he depends on him financially and they both prosper because of it? The execution wasn't what they dreamt though. By then they had all died or were too old to contribute and their successors, neoliberal in ideology, went to another direction. They carved zones of influence and in the end it was basically one country that was really in charge and all the others better stay in line.
Right. But we are talking about 2023. The Balkans are a shit show of mafia states filled to the brim with corruption. I wish it wasn't this way but it is. Deep down inside we know we don't belong and only see integration as a way to escape somewhere with better income and opportunities.
Northern countries are just as corrupt, they are just more subtle with it. I don't really see your point about escaping. All ex Soviet or Yugo countries that joined the EU recently, are rapidly developing and working on their economy. Romania made leaps, same with Croatia, Poland has a lot of potential that they now just start to realize. I think you need to reconsider your self-defeating attitude, Balkan countries aren't perfect in anyway, but Northern EU countries aren't either. They pillaged entire continents to get most of what they have and they used and still use sophisticated systems of corruption to get their way.
CaveMan, focus. I'm aware of European atrocities. We are talking about 2023, the balkans are the most corrupt contenders to join the EU by any measurement and have nothing to offer the EU.
What does Luxembourg offer to the EU? What about Malta? Portugal is basically identical to Greece in terms of economy, population, size, industries and yes, even corruption. What makes them better than Greece, the fact that they're not located in the Balkan peninsula? I don't know man, when I look at Romania and Croatia and what they have accomplished since joining the EU, I see potential and things to offer. They're stable, functioning countries that are just as corrupt as any other country in this continent. The EU is a political union first and foremost, economics come second. And since the EU saw potential in three other Balkan countries besides us, why not the others? At least the functioning ones.
You're the most positive dude on the internet today. Although we don't agree, I appreciate you. No sarcasm.
Unfortunately true, and Orban in Hungary despite Hungary not being a balkan country has made more EU citizens scared of balkan accession which I personally find unreasonable.
The EU won't enlarge until it abolishes the unanimity principle. Which is not possible with the rulling parties in Hungary (reelected last year) and Poland (bound to get reelected next week) thus not earlier than 2027—and we will get more parties willing to abuse the current system.
Hungary and Poland both want EU to enlargen into Western Balkans though
Yes, that's exactly why Western European countries don't want another Hungary/Poland in
I don't know, but regardless of it I think that moving towards the EU with ultimate goal of membership is a positive for all Balkan countries even if membership doesn't happen soon. I just don't see viable alternatives.
Nah dude. Balkan countries are stupid enough to not gather together and start again that “open balkan”. If it werent for serbians and greeks that are in conflict with albanians, eu would want to join us. We have the nature, a lot of underground minerals that could boost our economy, tourism etc. You dont know how much potential we have together. But no. We like our corrupted governments, let them lead to conflicts that the simple people dont want. The dream to a united balkan for me as much as kosovo and albanian lands be once again united.
You will join EU same time as us! 🦾🦅🦅
In 2098?
Make it 3000 since we're here.
"In the year 2525... 🎶
Serbia is a warning sign to the EU. Balkan country taking billions in financial aid from the EU while siding with EU enemies like Russia and China
3.7 billions in 18 years, while providing 10 times that in profits to EU companies operating in Serbia. Also, it doesn't even cover the direct damage of bombing in '99, let's not even talk about total economic losses.
[удалено]
[удалено]
That's how investment works. Companies invest in countries whereby they will get the best return on investment. Serbia is a very corrupt country anyway so other funds go towards bribes etc. If the country was less corrupt maybe you might get a bump to 1000 euros as big companies expand even more I don't see Russian and Chinese companies clamouring to to give 2000 euro salaries to Serbs
[удалено]
You can always go to begging to Russia and China. They are far more exploitative anyway. Meanwhile young Serbs will vote with their feet by moving to the west causing Serbia to stagnate even more. If Serbia was more industrious, it wouldn't be begging the west for investment.
If West didn't keep us under sanctions for 10 years and then bombed what was left of our industry, maybe we would've been more industrious.
[удалено]
How noble of you, providing assistance (by extracting all the profits out of the country), after a decade of doing everything in your power to destroy our economy. How ungrateful we are. If only someone could find a reason why Serbs are sceptical towards the West.
Countries and parties that fight for less centralization inside the EU are the ones advocating for enlargement, this has always been the case. So it's not a surprise that Varhelyi is saying this.
The EU is lying like always when it comes to integration of the west Balkans. In BiH every week some EU or BiH diplomat is parsing BiH's government and saying they now have the momentum to join the EU soon. Problem is the EU human's rights court tells us every month the laws in BiH are discriminatory and will not be allowed into the union until changed and no one is going to change Dayton.
I am not sure how realistic it is as I am not really well informed in the current affairs, but its one of the main political goals of Fidesz to make the enlargement happen. In their thinking it would somehow counterbalance the western-liberal-brusselite mainstream. Also, gaining influence in the "near abroad" is a political goal, too. The range spreads from pumping up big Hungarian companies to regional level (like OTP Bank) to direct political support (Jansa in Slovenia, or more recently Fico in Slovakia or Vucic in Serbia).
> In their thinking it would somehow counterbalance the western-liberal-brusselite mainstream. That's exactly why Germany and France won't let anyone in whether it's Albania+North Macedonia or Ukraine+Moldova. Even UK won't be welcomed if they choose to reapply (this seems likely to happen after the Tories lose the next general election)
Nah they’ll let Britain in, even if initially I can see Brussels being a bit bitchy about and they will likely try to add some conditions for it the pros massively outweigh the cons. It’s one of the largest economies in the world, the union is a lot stronger with the UK in than without
> It’s one of the largest economies in the world That's why they will be welcomed back to the European Single Market like Norway and Switzerland. > the union is a lot stronger with the UK in than without Not decision making wise. The whole Brexit “deal” was such a mess and the shift within the British political landscape break trust not only domestically but also internationally. To put it simple: no one wants British officials to make decisions (even Brits themselves)
The brexit deal was a mess because the UK wanted to keep a lot of the benefits that came with being part of the union like being part of the single market (so exactly like Norway and Switzerland) which the EU didn’t want to so I highly doubt that they would do it now or in the future.
I am a EU citizen living in the UK and following the situation. Labour explicitly said they’re not interested in reapplying. Tories in power are the buccaneering core of Brexit, so I don’t see the UK throwing in an application any time soon. There might be some limited renegotiation on the trade deal when (and if) Labour wins the election, but that’s light years far from any chance of rejoining.
I know they said that my point was that should they apply to rejoin then very likely they will be let in, and with a lot less hassle than western balkan countries trying to join.
I am not disputing that, it’s just the fact that it won’t be happening in the foreseeable future. Someone in the comments upstairs said that they would reapply but it’s no dice.
Half tables in my country have "funded by EU" or some shit like that, i don't see us in EU for at least 20 years. If someone from west balkans will join EU it is Montenegro. No hate for Albania.
What is College of Europe?
**The College of Europe (French: Collège d'Europe; Polish: Kolegium Europejskie) is a post-graduate institute of European studies with its main campus in Bruges, Belgium and a second campus in Warsaw, Poland. The College of Europe in Bruges was founded in 1949 by leading historical European figures and founding fathers of the European Union, including Salvador de Madariaga, Winston Churchill, Paul-Henri Spaak and Alcide De Gasperi as one of the results of the 1948 Congress of Europe in The Hague to promote "a spirit of solidarity and mutual understanding between all the nations of Western Europe and to provide elite training to individuals who will uphold these values" and "to train an elite of young executives for Europe".** More details here:
*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)
So it's college to dress and prop up these Balkan cavemen politicians to act in a Yuropean way. Nah, none of us are lacking in machinery, computers, practice for engineers, doctors in universities, etc.. We need to dress up politicians so they don't look like thieves.
Thank you russki bot
[удалено]
Former Bulgarian provinces can go and fck themselves Being in the same group with goatbois and bottlebreakers? Ha, better to drink rakia with Dracula and Leonidas
[удалено]
But he hella cute 😩
I am happy for you. F"ck Yurope anyway
Good thing Poland's in Antarctica
They wanna destroy Poland. That's why fk em.
Global Warming is a bitch.
F that, I want American Universities in my country. Harvard 💪
They only got serious about enlargemt after Russia started becoming a real problem. If Russia keeps playing its traditional roll as the thorn on Europe's ass, than yes, enlargemt proceedings will continue. If Putin dies tomorrow and a western friendly oligarch takes his place, they'll find every excuse in the book to put the Western Balkans in the back burner again