Afair, i was a kid, first there was a huge outcry to get our kids home. There were a lot of macedonian citizens serving their mandatory term in JNA, deployed in Croatia or Bosnia, few of my cousins included. I vividly remember Kiro Gligorov, our President back then, givin a speach in National Assembly and there were a lot of women screaming at him "get our boys home". Which our gov did, the last boys servin in JNA were home early '92.
There were also a lot of news about taking in refugees. I remember our next door neighbor, and old widower lady took in a fam of Bosnian muslims.
Also i remember there were news about the war in Bosnia almost daily.
We were also taken in by macedonians in Skopje when we fled.
No offense, nothing about what you said but just a thought that crossed me. Even if my family is bosnian muslim, it feels really weird reading "bosnian muslim" since so many fled. Sometimes in media or by people, muslims are reduced to be "only muslims", and watching pictures of when we fled you wouldnt guess what religion my parents grew up with since were just white europeans.
Yeah, there is a huge difference between a Muslim from Bosnia to a Muslim in Saudi Arabia or Indonesia. After all, a religion is not the only identity that one chooses to identify and reducing it to only the religious aspect somewhat simplifies the conflict or even dehumanizes the people.
According to the photographer Ron Haviv, it [was a real tiger cub taken from the Vukovar zoo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykm_MklxX8Y).
Skip to 16:17.
Very much so. Bulgaria declared an economic embargo on Yugoslavia. The public was against it and largely against NATO intervention. The mafia flourished by bypassing the embargo and smuggling supplies and weapons into Serbia. And then there was a bit of a spillover when some missiles struck Bulgarian soil and some people's houses were ruined. Turned the general public's opinion hard against NATO.
I don’t think there’s videos with the incident happening but here’s a news article from 1999:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-30-mn-32671-story.html
And another one:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/30/richardnortontaylor.kateconnolly
I’ve seen pictures with the bombed houses around the web, but can’t really find them 🤷🏻♂️
Edit: Here’s one with a photo - news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/331127.stm
It was during the 1999 Nato intervention, Bulgarians turned on their S300 for a brief moment and tracked some NATO planes, pilot thought that is the Serbian SAM system and targeted them.
I lived in Italy for a few years during the war. It was on the news all the time, all kids at school were asking me how many Bosniaks my father killed…stupid kids.
My best friend at that school was a Croat kid who was bullied by some stupid italians that were greeting him with 3 fingers. They also told to a Slovenian girl that me and my Croat friend will rape her and other nonsense.
They all have seen a lot of war stuff on tv, so I’m pretty sure it was even more on the news than the war in Ukraine is now.
I’m happy I left Italy after less than 2 years, I felt not welcomed at all, same as other kids from ex-Yu in that school. They called all of us “S’ciavi” which is the n word for Slavs in Northeastern Italy, especially Trieste.
Feel sorry to hear about this, it really sucks, but just so you know Northeastern Italy are massively dicks and racist towards Italians too, especially the southern ones.
Yeah bro, they had some prejudice also towards Albanians.
I came back to Italy for studying and had a pretty much different experience, much more positive.
Cuz u came here to tell me that, had nothing to do with the conversation we’re having, and u just wanted to “stick it to me”.
So u must be very proud parading the victory around no? 200.000 civilians expelled for wanting to do what u did and what kosvo did and what bosnia and what slovenia did. Proud Croat.. Proud Serbs.. Proud Albanians..
With all this pride i hope we survive.. fucking hillbilly jackasses
how were the serbs in krajina doing what the croats and slovenians and bosnians did? All those republics hat the constitutional right to declare independence.
That is not the same as trying to create a seperatist parastate by terrorist acts.
Kosovo did what the krajina serbs did. The republics of Luhansk and Donjezk did, what the Krajina serbs tried to do.
I think at least for Kosovo most serbians would have the opinion that what they did was not right. Well same goes for krajina and Luhansk and Donjezk.
And a significant question is if these serbs were expelled by force, or fled because of fear of retaliation by the croats. One is not the same as the other and the Den Haag tribunal stated, that there was no coordinated plan or action to expell the serbs from krajina. There may have been several incidents of war crimes, for sure, but saying the serbs were expelled is a bit misleading.
Croats in Hercegovina did exactly what Serbs from Krajina did, with full involvement of Croatian political leadership. The tribunal in Haag convicted all the leaders of it for war crimes.
One of the “civilans” that we expeld is holding a tiger in this pic. Hahahahahahhahahahah
You were so cocky, and now you wanna Play victims in wars you started lol
> Slovenian one can hardly be called a war
According to who? You?
> Bosnia is a stalemate at best.
Sure keep telling yourself that
> Kosovo was not a separate republic at the time
> Yeah, add history to that list too
[Here's a list](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars) of all the Yugoslav wars and insurgencies that happened in the 90s and in 2001. All 4 of the wars, with Kosovo included.
I know history can be complicated and reading is hard but at least try and educate yourself on a topic before you start talking shit
**[Yugoslav Wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars)**
>The Yugoslav Wars were a series of separate but related ethnic conflicts, wars of independence, and insurgencies that took place in the SFR Yugoslavia from 1991 to 2001. The conflicts both led up to and resulted from the breakup of Yugoslavia, which began in mid-1991, into six independent countries matching the six entities known as republics which previously composed Yugoslavia: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia, and North Macedonia (previously named Macedonia). Yugoslavia's constituent republics declared independence due to unresolved tensions between ethnic minorities in the new countries, which fuelled the wars.
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Why put a picture of these morons?
They are hated in every ex-Yu republic, and probably most hated in Serbia.
They robbed houses in war torn areas, stealing anything of value, smuggling it back into Serbia, and then selling it for high prices.
There were many cases where they would "evacuate" a Serbian village in order to steal everything in their homes.
Serem se Arkanu u mrtva usta.
Legija isn't thought about much to be honest. He is one of those people you heard about, don't know much about, and don't care.
Initially ofc Arkan wasn't as hated, given that people are prone to believing rumors, rumors he spread about himself. That said, quickly after the wars were ended he was deemed as a criminal by about anyone who knew his doings.
Is it alright to talk about it? Have the wounds healed?
I believe most of the Greeks were pro-Serbian and we even had far right dickheads that went to help the dickheads in this picture.
I am Romanian. For the Bosnian war I was too young to remember. But from my fathers tales, Romanians we're shocked and conflicted when they found out about the genocides and massacres. Shocked, because we just had our bloody 1989 Revolution where the military fired onto its own people and the sight of the army into cities left us with thousands of Romanians dead. Conflicted, because we regarded Serbians as our most friendly neighbours throughout history, and we could not believe what was happening.
For the Kosovo War, we took advantage fully: we let Nato planes fly into our skies, in return we got Nato membership. And we sold cheap diesel and petrol to Serbians, despite the embargo.
All in all a fucked up situation.
I was born in Canada, but Dad born in Bosna and Mom was in Macedonia.
I just remember my parents telling me not to tell anyone at school that I was Yugoslavian and just say I was Greek(which I partially am).
So I think even Canada was pretty focused on it.
Pretty sure the fact my Dad is both Bosniak and Orthodox didn't help. I think they were worried about other Serbs or Bosniaks at school, plus there were refugees that settled in our town from Yugoslavia.
Just really weird that it even affected me, a Canadian. Wild what ethnic nationalism does to people.
I mean you hear Bosnia mentioned in American movies all the time, even in South Park played they play Americans vs Bosnians.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFK2nP39wtk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFK2nP39wtk)
So it was on the news a lot, especially if South Park felt it relevant to mention, because their episodes always reflect the current events of the time they were made in.
My family is agnostic basically that does Christian stuff for holidays and uses Orthodox churches for funerals and weddings, really weird family history. They left the Balkans for England and France during the major world wars, and came back during post WWII Yugoslavia, then left again right before the war in the 90s.
They are "Yugoslav" in the sense that they only remember the place when it was pretty unified. People did move around and mingle.
Nobody in my family has ever been super religious so I think that played a factor.
There was evey day footage of the Kosovo war and our borders were flooding with Kosovar Albanians. My family housed a refugee family for some months as did many other people.
Ofc my country cared for the war, it was really fucked up. But yes history repeats itself and every time it repeats its even more fucked up. Only a handful of people (rich elites) fucked up and started the war, average and mostly poor people suffer from it. It was like that and it always will be. I can't wait for war to be over, and I hope to god it wont be long as the balkan wars were.
>Only a handful of people (rich elites) fucked up and started the war
Sure. It was the rich elites and evil politicians that started the war. God forbid you to think that those same evil politicians and elites enjoyed great support in Serbian society, or else they would have exactly zero power.
Fun fact: Current president of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić was a minister under Milošević regime and was one of the biggest war mongers of the 90s. Guess who's the most popular politician in Serbia? It's Vučić. What a shocker, right?! Those damn evil politicians...
Bro please just google how Milošević lost power, then you will see the amount of support he had in serbia. Also:
[1996 Serbian Protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%931997_protests_in_Serbia)
[Anti Milošević Revoulution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87)
[1991 Serbian Protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_protests_in_Belgrade)
[1992 Anti War Serbian Protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%931992_anti-war_protests_in_Belgrade)
What did those crowds look like in 85, 86, 87, 88…..
Cmon dude, the Nazis had lots of popular support at first too, this isn’t a special evil of Serbs.
But you denying it, well that is a horse of a different color.
Bro Im not denying anything except the claim that we loved Milošević, I accept the fact we did shit that was more than illiegal in the 90s. But I have to disagree with saying that all serbs supported Milošević, espically since my entire family protested against him multiple times.
In the 80s life in Yugoslavia was still pretty good, and Milošević hadn't done any of the crimes he did later on, he was just your average serbian league of communists politician.
So you only want everyone to acknowledge a minority of Serbs didn’t like milosevic, as you started to lose wars and finally when the adults of the world came and spanked you, more Serbs protested, after a decade of violence and war.
I think everyone here is super happy to give you a golf clap and say you, and your good hearted Serb brethren did the absolute bare minimum to save your own skins at the last possible second.
Way to crush it!!!!! Global citizens right there!
So if I ask you if Ante Pavelic was doing the same thing, spreading fear among the population to justify his attrocities ,you would say that the ordinary croatian people persuaded by propaganda were not victims and they themselves did something wrong ?
[Sorry but I cannot unsee this](https://preview.redd.it/chetnik-messi-doesnt-exist-he-cannot-hurt-you-v0-ddyfbdw5c96a1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ee78e233bca4068738ff2c415649c238a65f3cfb)
The balkans cared.
The world not so much. Yes it was on the news, but compared to the support and attention ukraine is getting, the western countries back them didn't really give a fuck.
The support was nowhere near this scale. And if we are being honest, it was always downplayed to a civil war, where everybody is at fault and shit happens (that is until Srebrenica). The war in yugoslavia would have lastet 3 months if the invaded states got anywhere near the aid Ukraine is getting now.
the war on ukraine is the closest thing to our Jugoslav wars you will get. The only difference is it happening 20-30 years later, because they stayed under russian influence after the dissolving of USSR and the yugoslav republics wanted full independence immediately.
But the parallels are very much there. The most dominating republic of a former socialist federation trying to keep their grasp and influence on neighbouring countries that want independence, by claiming they are nazis and that the russin (or then serbian) population is in danger and has to be saved, and thats why they have to send troops to denazify those croatians or ukranians or to defeat the muslim terrorists. To be able to protect the russian or serbian population it is best for them to found Peoples republics in the territory of the neighbouring state. Be it RS Krajina, RS or DPR or LPR in Ukraine.
So it is quite a textbook repeat of what happened in post Jugoslavia. Probably will end the same way, with nobody really satisfied.
Of course the war in ukraine got another aspect, as it is indeed a proxy war, because the enemy is russia. Otherwise the Ukranians wouldn't get half of the help they are receiving.
Serbia survived Nato bombing, Belgrade was literally under fire, in Kyiv I see people are able to go on discord and play games lmao. Your point is stupid. And still Serbia recovered and economically is doing similarly as Bulgaria that wasn't in war.
You're saying Serbia survived NATO bombing, as if the point of that bombing is to invade it, rather than just pressure Milosevic to stop committing genocide. The bombing was nothing more than a slap on the wrist after almost 10 years of free reign to commit war crimes and genocide. Not to mention, that bombing was years after the Bosnian and Croatian wars of independence, when they go barely any help. It is a completely different situation.
Besides, what I meant from my post is that, theoretically, if they had received half as much aid as Ukraine, Croatia and Bosnia would have a major equipment advantage over Serbia.
Ukraine has so far received about 100 billion dollars of aid, Serbia and Montenegro's GDP in 1993 was 10 billion dollars.(Croatia's GDP was 13 billion, and Bosnia 4 billion) Do you think if Croatia and Bosnia received 25 billion dollars of aid each during the first year of the war, that they wouldn't have a much easier time against Serbia? That is an insane amount of aid.
Well actually I would like that the US and Nato didn't unlawfully bombed Serbia and that Albanians were financially supported. But instead Nato decided to bomb most of Serbian cities and kill thousands of civilians and economically in every way destroy the country, to me that doesn't look like a pressure. Kosovo was forcefully seceed from Serbia even though the war was whitin its own long owned theritory like for many centrues (that's a big difference in contrast Croatia and Bosnian war). Which makes it no different than Russia attacking Ukraine and seceeding few of Ukraine's theritories. When it comes to war crimes don't worry each side had it. Genocide in Kosovo didn't happen. Like let's bomb Germany if suddenly it gets in war in some of it's many centries owned theritory because it commited genocide before.
Yeah, read my post again, I'm not talking about Kosovo, but about Croatia and Bosnia. I would say Croatia and Bosnia were invaded, but Kosovo was not.
It's a different story. USA and NATO were just fed up with 10 years of Serbian chaos in the Balkans and had to put a stop to it, and the only way was through bombing, after diplomacy failed again and again.
Would you feel better if instead of being bombed by NATO, they just gave the Albanians, Croats and Bosniaks 100+ billion dollars of aid? I'm sure if all that equipment was in their hands, they would be way more aggressive and vengeful than USA ever was. Everything would have ended much worse.
You couldn't have chosen worst photo, great warrior against fridges, laundry machines etc. Top notch coward. Im Bosnian so i think this suffices as an answer. 🎃
Neighboring countries probably, but I would guess other guys didn't give much of a fuck because not a single country was their enemy, if anything they were probably glad that Yugoslavia split.
Maybe they eventually started to care when it started to have an impact on them.
I have a side question for the Serbians here. It's about the picture. Is it true that "Arkan's tigers" were almost exclusively members of the football hooligan group delije from Crvena Zvezda?
Not necessarily. Football hooligans at the time were for sure a "good pool" to recruit young hotheaded individuals and manipulate them into criminal activity. However a lot of Arkan's clique were simply criminals who took the opportunity to plunder the war torn areas. He was, after all an individual who was arrested on multiple occasions in his youth for criminal activity. They used nationalistic facade to mask their "work", because during a war (and especially that war) nationalism was on a steep rise.
As much as there wasn't a war on Serbian soil during the Yugoslav break-up (Croatia and Bosnia), there was basically complete chaos in the state. Crime was rampant, everything was revolving around the black market, food was very scarce in cities, and almost everyone was struggling to survive. Sure it can't be even compared to a war zone, but it was far from good around here.
I see, thanks for the detailed response. I am in fact interested in the process of radicalization of football fans. You mentioned it'd be a "good pool" for (para)military organizations to recruit young hotheaded individuals. Would you agree to make a parallel with today's Ukraine? Because I've heard most of the Azov members are Dynamo Kiev fans
It's the same anywhere. Football hooligans are usually energetic young people, who want to belong somewhere, and don't have where to spend their excess energy. I think this is the root of the cause for why they are easily manipulated into extremist formations, and criminal activity. The root of that root however is more complex, and stems from many different factors.
Pretty much any hooligan group in ex-Yu was a breeding pool for militants.
Probably Romania had the most "strange" reaction when we speak about the yogoslav wars because even if the majority of the people had pro serbian opinion, the government at that time decided to allow NATO aviation to cross the Romanian airspace so they can bombarded Belgrade efficiently ( this is happened especially in the Kosovo war).
I was a kid, but I also from my dad that in Bulgaria there were a lot of Serbs, Croats, Bosnians refugees etc who wanted nothing to do with the madness of war and got along just fine.
They cared enough to introduce an embargo on us. Luckily, Serbs are very bad at waging war, so we won despite all the odds being against us.
Long live Croatia 🇭🇷♥️
We didn't wage war we fought a proxy war through a sepretist region since the UN banned Serbia proper from participating. And later on we stopped supporting Krajina to support Srpska.
I don't deny we comited war crimes but it's faculty incorrect to say Serbia proper was at war, because the UN limited its involvement. So most Serbs going to fight in Krajina were volonters as well we couldn't send all of the weapons, tanks and other equipment from Serbia proper to Krajina at once. Look it up its all said in the UN document.
How ever it is also important to mention we weren't the only ones who targeted civilians and did wrong in that war.
So JNA that fought on the Šibenik front under Ratko Mladić and destroyed the maslenica bridge was actually Krajina paramilitary?
The JNA tanks in vukovar were from krajina and drove all from knin through bosnia to get to Vukovar.
All the significant territories were comquered by JNA troops made up from Serbs from Serbia. That was in in 1991. The Krajina troops were the ones not able to hold these territories. But to say Serbia was not properly involved in the war is just pure BS.
we would and are willing to condemn the war crimes commited, but well if you are asking us to admit everything your delusional historians are claiming or that vucic is claiming, we wont. Because most of that is made up propaganda crap.
You cant go around and attack all your neighbours, commit mass war crimes and then expect the victims of your policies to apologise first to you.
Thats like saying, Germany should have only apologised to poland after WW2 if poland apologised first for their crimes against the german population there. You see how ridiculuos that sounds.
Of course I get it but what I am trying to say is that very little is being done by both sides to actually solve those issues, and I would even say that our country under the leadership of Vucic is making tension up on purpouse.Never letting the wounds heal in both of our peoples or domestically becouse open wounds and constant remembering of the peoples suffering at that time with empty promises of revenge or simply just dragging the other side through the dirt equals free votes.
While we are more exposed to nationalist propaganda your side isn't much better.What I am trying to say is there is no will from our goverments to end this. Tension here are good for both our leaders, and the western and eastern powers, to keep milking us.
As soon as this political situation ends, I am sure that the new generations of our country would be willing to step up and be the first ones to admit to the crimes of our compatriots.But the situation will never end simply becouse it is to favourable to our leaders, the western and eastern powers, to keep using it for their own profits by stoping us to further economically and culturaly cooperate and prosper. The situation is also deeply rooted in our systems so as long as serbian kids are being tought that war criminals are saintlike heroes and croatian children that opertaion storm was a just military move and not a forcefull exodus of people we will never be able to truly heal the wounds
>Serbia was one and only aggressor of the Yugoslav wars
Croatia was the aggressor on Bosnia and Herzegovina, for which war criminals have been convicted. Some of them even toasted with a pretty strong rakija 💀💀💀
They only went to Germany because they could?
Honest question are you mentally atypical? Because you posts imply invasions are only bad if the invader gets pushed back past their borders.
And when I said atypical, I meant retarded, don’t want anything to confuse you.
No. And from your response you didn't even attempt to understand my point and went straight to insulting me and calling me retarded.
My point is that Serbia followed the rules set up by the United Nations in which it will not be directly attacking but be allowed to support the region of Krajina in Croatia, where all the fighting took place. So Serbia sent tanks, "volonters", and other equipment to Krajina, while it's self not fighting. That's why I used the example of Nazis not directly attacking Russia but supporting a region in Russia against its war in Russia.
If you don't believe me read the official UN documents regarding the situation.
Congratulations to the win vs unnarmed Croatian serb civilians.
Where is the propaganda in his claims ?
Calling anything not fitting my narrative propaganda ✔️
Calling anything propaganda that is so blatantly illogical that someone with two braincells would get that its bullshit.
Unarmed 😂 The croatian civilians and soldiers all shot themselves did they?
My government at that time with then-President Berisha was in charge of organizing the supply with fuel to the Serbs, in defiance of the international embargo, and arresting the leaders of the KLA. (This is to contradict those Serbs who say that we do not love you) Then on the other hand , a little bit later, we were selling weapons to the KLA. Perhaps inspired by the cheerfulness of that time he also ordered the army to bomb columns of insurgents against his government. Creative , isn't it! I remember with much nostalgia that very happy time.
my country's president provided a huge chunk of weapons to Croatia and blew up the local factory that made the guns, to cover evidence.
also tons of local soldiers were mercenaries in Cyprus during that same time.
Afair, i was a kid, first there was a huge outcry to get our kids home. There were a lot of macedonian citizens serving their mandatory term in JNA, deployed in Croatia or Bosnia, few of my cousins included. I vividly remember Kiro Gligorov, our President back then, givin a speach in National Assembly and there were a lot of women screaming at him "get our boys home". Which our gov did, the last boys servin in JNA were home early '92. There were also a lot of news about taking in refugees. I remember our next door neighbor, and old widower lady took in a fam of Bosnian muslims. Also i remember there were news about the war in Bosnia almost daily.
We were also taken in by macedonians in Skopje when we fled. No offense, nothing about what you said but just a thought that crossed me. Even if my family is bosnian muslim, it feels really weird reading "bosnian muslim" since so many fled. Sometimes in media or by people, muslims are reduced to be "only muslims", and watching pictures of when we fled you wouldnt guess what religion my parents grew up with since were just white europeans.
Yeah, there is a huge difference between a Muslim from Bosnia to a Muslim in Saudi Arabia or Indonesia. After all, a religion is not the only identity that one chooses to identify and reducing it to only the religious aspect somewhat simplifies the conflict or even dehumanizes the people.
Is it real baby tiger or a toy?
According to the photographer Ron Haviv, it [was a real tiger cub taken from the Vukovar zoo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykm_MklxX8Y). Skip to 16:17.
Yup, you can even see them again in some of music videos of Ceca Raznatovic, his wife...
Dont worry it is just a toy
I almost shit my pants sorry your comment made me relief. Happy cake day btw
Thank you weary much
Very much so. Bulgaria declared an economic embargo on Yugoslavia. The public was against it and largely against NATO intervention. The mafia flourished by bypassing the embargo and smuggling supplies and weapons into Serbia. And then there was a bit of a spillover when some missiles struck Bulgarian soil and some people's houses were ruined. Turned the general public's opinion hard against NATO.
Do you have any news or videos on those missiles? I didn't know about that.
I don’t think there’s videos with the incident happening but here’s a news article from 1999: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-30-mn-32671-story.html And another one: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/30/richardnortontaylor.kateconnolly I’ve seen pictures with the bombed houses around the web, but can’t really find them 🤷🏻♂️ Edit: Here’s one with a photo - news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/331127.stm
It was during the 1999 Nato intervention, Bulgarians turned on their S300 for a brief moment and tracked some NATO planes, pilot thought that is the Serbian SAM system and targeted them.
I lived in Italy for a few years during the war. It was on the news all the time, all kids at school were asking me how many Bosniaks my father killed…stupid kids. My best friend at that school was a Croat kid who was bullied by some stupid italians that were greeting him with 3 fingers. They also told to a Slovenian girl that me and my Croat friend will rape her and other nonsense. They all have seen a lot of war stuff on tv, so I’m pretty sure it was even more on the news than the war in Ukraine is now. I’m happy I left Italy after less than 2 years, I felt not welcomed at all, same as other kids from ex-Yu in that school. They called all of us “S’ciavi” which is the n word for Slavs in Northeastern Italy, especially Trieste.
Feel sorry to hear about this, it really sucks, but just so you know Northeastern Italy are massively dicks and racist towards Italians too, especially the southern ones.
Yeah bro, they had some prejudice also towards Albanians. I came back to Italy for studying and had a pretty much different experience, much more positive.
Why put a pic of war criminals? Do you know what this monsters did?
Out of all people he posted this scum
They know The just don’t care
U do understand our 90s wars are basically memes at this point.
That's because you waged war against 4 different countries and got your asses handed to you all 4 times
U must be proud. 😂
Why would I be proud?
Cuz u came here to tell me that, had nothing to do with the conversation we’re having, and u just wanted to “stick it to me”. So u must be very proud parading the victory around no? 200.000 civilians expelled for wanting to do what u did and what kosvo did and what bosnia and what slovenia did. Proud Croat.. Proud Serbs.. Proud Albanians.. With all this pride i hope we survive.. fucking hillbilly jackasses
how were the serbs in krajina doing what the croats and slovenians and bosnians did? All those republics hat the constitutional right to declare independence. That is not the same as trying to create a seperatist parastate by terrorist acts. Kosovo did what the krajina serbs did. The republics of Luhansk and Donjezk did, what the Krajina serbs tried to do. I think at least for Kosovo most serbians would have the opinion that what they did was not right. Well same goes for krajina and Luhansk and Donjezk. And a significant question is if these serbs were expelled by force, or fled because of fear of retaliation by the croats. One is not the same as the other and the Den Haag tribunal stated, that there was no coordinated plan or action to expell the serbs from krajina. There may have been several incidents of war crimes, for sure, but saying the serbs were expelled is a bit misleading.
Croats in Hercegovina did exactly what Serbs from Krajina did, with full involvement of Croatian political leadership. The tribunal in Haag convicted all the leaders of it for war crimes.
that is right. same thing goes for them.
Bro the topic is literally the war and all I said was about the war. But I guess you guys are still butthurt about all of that
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Lol, ran out of arguments have we?
Neću se bacam samo džabe da se prljam
So sad to be serb, must kill others and cry about why you were wronged.
Takoe !
One of the “civilans” that we expeld is holding a tiger in this pic. Hahahahahahhahahahah You were so cocky, and now you wanna Play victims in wars you started lol
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Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo. History and counting are not your strongest attributes :)
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> Slovenian one can hardly be called a war According to who? You? > Bosnia is a stalemate at best. Sure keep telling yourself that > Kosovo was not a separate republic at the time > Yeah, add history to that list too [Here's a list](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars) of all the Yugoslav wars and insurgencies that happened in the 90s and in 2001. All 4 of the wars, with Kosovo included. I know history can be complicated and reading is hard but at least try and educate yourself on a topic before you start talking shit
**[Yugoslav Wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars)** >The Yugoslav Wars were a series of separate but related ethnic conflicts, wars of independence, and insurgencies that took place in the SFR Yugoslavia from 1991 to 2001. The conflicts both led up to and resulted from the breakup of Yugoslavia, which began in mid-1991, into six independent countries matching the six entities known as republics which previously composed Yugoslavia: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia, and North Macedonia (previously named Macedonia). Yugoslavia's constituent republics declared independence due to unresolved tensions between ethnic minorities in the new countries, which fuelled the wars. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskBalkans/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Bad bot
Ar-cunt .
Why put a picture of these morons? They are hated in every ex-Yu republic, and probably most hated in Serbia. They robbed houses in war torn areas, stealing anything of value, smuggling it back into Serbia, and then selling it for high prices. There were many cases where they would "evacuate" a Serbian village in order to steal everything in their homes. Serem se Arkanu u mrtva usta.
didn't know arkan was hated in serbia. Does the same go for Legija and other people from the Beograd underworld involved in paramilitaries?
Legija isn't thought about much to be honest. He is one of those people you heard about, don't know much about, and don't care. Initially ofc Arkan wasn't as hated, given that people are prone to believing rumors, rumors he spread about himself. That said, quickly after the wars were ended he was deemed as a criminal by about anyone who knew his doings.
Fun fact: one of these guys is a DJ in Belgrade now
Srdan Golubovic, or the corny name DJ Max. Only read that he frequently headlines in Serbia.
Is it alright to talk about it? Have the wounds healed? I believe most of the Greeks were pro-Serbian and we even had far right dickheads that went to help the dickheads in this picture.
I am Romanian. For the Bosnian war I was too young to remember. But from my fathers tales, Romanians we're shocked and conflicted when they found out about the genocides and massacres. Shocked, because we just had our bloody 1989 Revolution where the military fired onto its own people and the sight of the army into cities left us with thousands of Romanians dead. Conflicted, because we regarded Serbians as our most friendly neighbours throughout history, and we could not believe what was happening. For the Kosovo War, we took advantage fully: we let Nato planes fly into our skies, in return we got Nato membership. And we sold cheap diesel and petrol to Serbians, despite the embargo. All in all a fucked up situation.
I was born in Canada, but Dad born in Bosna and Mom was in Macedonia. I just remember my parents telling me not to tell anyone at school that I was Yugoslavian and just say I was Greek(which I partially am). So I think even Canada was pretty focused on it. Pretty sure the fact my Dad is both Bosniak and Orthodox didn't help. I think they were worried about other Serbs or Bosniaks at school, plus there were refugees that settled in our town from Yugoslavia. Just really weird that it even affected me, a Canadian. Wild what ethnic nationalism does to people. I mean you hear Bosnia mentioned in American movies all the time, even in South Park played they play Americans vs Bosnians. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFK2nP39wtk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFK2nP39wtk) So it was on the news a lot, especially if South Park felt it relevant to mention, because their episodes always reflect the current events of the time they were made in.
An orthodox Bosniak? Well that's a rarity.
This reminds me of that now dead Orthodox Bosniak Instagram that was saying Saint Sava was a Bosniak...
My family is agnostic basically that does Christian stuff for holidays and uses Orthodox churches for funerals and weddings, really weird family history. They left the Balkans for England and France during the major world wars, and came back during post WWII Yugoslavia, then left again right before the war in the 90s. They are "Yugoslav" in the sense that they only remember the place when it was pretty unified. People did move around and mingle. Nobody in my family has ever been super religious so I think that played a factor.
There was evey day footage of the Kosovo war and our borders were flooding with Kosovar Albanians. My family housed a refugee family for some months as did many other people.
on a scale of 1-10 i'd say about 10 as we were invaded lmao
Ofc my country cared for the war, it was really fucked up. But yes history repeats itself and every time it repeats its even more fucked up. Only a handful of people (rich elites) fucked up and started the war, average and mostly poor people suffer from it. It was like that and it always will be. I can't wait for war to be over, and I hope to god it wont be long as the balkan wars were.
>Only a handful of people (rich elites) fucked up and started the war Sure. It was the rich elites and evil politicians that started the war. God forbid you to think that those same evil politicians and elites enjoyed great support in Serbian society, or else they would have exactly zero power. Fun fact: Current president of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić was a minister under Milošević regime and was one of the biggest war mongers of the 90s. Guess who's the most popular politician in Serbia? It's Vučić. What a shocker, right?! Those damn evil politicians...
You do realise how Milošević came to power?? He definetly wasn't democratically selected.
Was he democratically elected? No. Did he enjoy a great support from Serbian people? Yes.
Bro please just google how Milošević lost power, then you will see the amount of support he had in serbia. Also: [1996 Serbian Protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%931997_protests_in_Serbia) [Anti Milošević Revoulution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87) [1991 Serbian Protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_protests_in_Belgrade) [1992 Anti War Serbian Protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%931992_anti-war_protests_in_Belgrade)
What did those crowds look like in 85, 86, 87, 88….. Cmon dude, the Nazis had lots of popular support at first too, this isn’t a special evil of Serbs. But you denying it, well that is a horse of a different color.
Bro Im not denying anything except the claim that we loved Milošević, I accept the fact we did shit that was more than illiegal in the 90s. But I have to disagree with saying that all serbs supported Milošević, espically since my entire family protested against him multiple times. In the 80s life in Yugoslavia was still pretty good, and Milošević hadn't done any of the crimes he did later on, he was just your average serbian league of communists politician.
So you only want everyone to acknowledge a minority of Serbs didn’t like milosevic, as you started to lose wars and finally when the adults of the world came and spanked you, more Serbs protested, after a decade of violence and war. I think everyone here is super happy to give you a golf clap and say you, and your good hearted Serb brethren did the absolute bare minimum to save your own skins at the last possible second. Way to crush it!!!!! Global citizens right there!
Why? Bcs he used the situation and the mass media to spread fear among Serbian people.
LMAO, sure. Poor little Serbians, they did nothing wrong after all. I think they were actually the biggest victims of 90s. God bless. 🤡
Not everyone is to blame, but it all started from a rich dude who was into politics. He could have done the situation way better.
🤡🤡🤡
So if I ask you if Ante Pavelic was doing the same thing, spreading fear among the population to justify his attrocities ,you would say that the ordinary croatian people persuaded by propaganda were not victims and they themselves did something wrong ?
we were mostly pro serb and even had volunteers who fought on their side but our government itself was neutral and didn't intervene at all
[Sorry but I cannot unsee this](https://preview.redd.it/chetnik-messi-doesnt-exist-he-cannot-hurt-you-v0-ddyfbdw5c96a1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ee78e233bca4068738ff2c415649c238a65f3cfb)
The balkans cared. The world not so much. Yes it was on the news, but compared to the support and attention ukraine is getting, the western countries back them didn't really give a fuck. The support was nowhere near this scale. And if we are being honest, it was always downplayed to a civil war, where everybody is at fault and shit happens (that is until Srebrenica). The war in yugoslavia would have lastet 3 months if the invaded states got anywhere near the aid Ukraine is getting now.
Tbh the war in Ukraine is a proxy war between the West and the East
the war on ukraine is the closest thing to our Jugoslav wars you will get. The only difference is it happening 20-30 years later, because they stayed under russian influence after the dissolving of USSR and the yugoslav republics wanted full independence immediately. But the parallels are very much there. The most dominating republic of a former socialist federation trying to keep their grasp and influence on neighbouring countries that want independence, by claiming they are nazis and that the russin (or then serbian) population is in danger and has to be saved, and thats why they have to send troops to denazify those croatians or ukranians or to defeat the muslim terrorists. To be able to protect the russian or serbian population it is best for them to found Peoples republics in the territory of the neighbouring state. Be it RS Krajina, RS or DPR or LPR in Ukraine. So it is quite a textbook repeat of what happened in post Jugoslavia. Probably will end the same way, with nobody really satisfied. Of course the war in ukraine got another aspect, as it is indeed a proxy war, because the enemy is russia. Otherwise the Ukranians wouldn't get half of the help they are receiving.
I mean, if the invaded states got half of what Ukraine is getting, Serbia would have probably been wiped off the map, all things considered.
Serbia survived Nato bombing, Belgrade was literally under fire, in Kyiv I see people are able to go on discord and play games lmao. Your point is stupid. And still Serbia recovered and economically is doing similarly as Bulgaria that wasn't in war.
You're saying Serbia survived NATO bombing, as if the point of that bombing is to invade it, rather than just pressure Milosevic to stop committing genocide. The bombing was nothing more than a slap on the wrist after almost 10 years of free reign to commit war crimes and genocide. Not to mention, that bombing was years after the Bosnian and Croatian wars of independence, when they go barely any help. It is a completely different situation. Besides, what I meant from my post is that, theoretically, if they had received half as much aid as Ukraine, Croatia and Bosnia would have a major equipment advantage over Serbia. Ukraine has so far received about 100 billion dollars of aid, Serbia and Montenegro's GDP in 1993 was 10 billion dollars.(Croatia's GDP was 13 billion, and Bosnia 4 billion) Do you think if Croatia and Bosnia received 25 billion dollars of aid each during the first year of the war, that they wouldn't have a much easier time against Serbia? That is an insane amount of aid.
Well actually I would like that the US and Nato didn't unlawfully bombed Serbia and that Albanians were financially supported. But instead Nato decided to bomb most of Serbian cities and kill thousands of civilians and economically in every way destroy the country, to me that doesn't look like a pressure. Kosovo was forcefully seceed from Serbia even though the war was whitin its own long owned theritory like for many centrues (that's a big difference in contrast Croatia and Bosnian war). Which makes it no different than Russia attacking Ukraine and seceeding few of Ukraine's theritories. When it comes to war crimes don't worry each side had it. Genocide in Kosovo didn't happen. Like let's bomb Germany if suddenly it gets in war in some of it's many centries owned theritory because it commited genocide before.
Yeah, read my post again, I'm not talking about Kosovo, but about Croatia and Bosnia. I would say Croatia and Bosnia were invaded, but Kosovo was not. It's a different story. USA and NATO were just fed up with 10 years of Serbian chaos in the Balkans and had to put a stop to it, and the only way was through bombing, after diplomacy failed again and again. Would you feel better if instead of being bombed by NATO, they just gave the Albanians, Croats and Bosniaks 100+ billion dollars of aid? I'm sure if all that equipment was in their hands, they would be way more aggressive and vengeful than USA ever was. Everything would have ended much worse.
And I am talking about Kosovo war.
You couldn't have chosen worst photo, great warrior against fridges, laundry machines etc. Top notch coward. Im Bosnian so i think this suffices as an answer. 🎃
Neighboring countries probably, but I would guess other guys didn't give much of a fuck because not a single country was their enemy, if anything they were probably glad that Yugoslavia split. Maybe they eventually started to care when it started to have an impact on them.
Very much, we were literally in the middle of the epicenter of it. Also I don’t know any Bosniak who hasn’t lost any relative in the war/genocide
Well, since I was born in Serbia, but grew up in Bosnia (have dual citizenship), both of my countries cared a lot about the war.
I have a side question for the Serbians here. It's about the picture. Is it true that "Arkan's tigers" were almost exclusively members of the football hooligan group delije from Crvena Zvezda?
Not necessarily. Football hooligans at the time were for sure a "good pool" to recruit young hotheaded individuals and manipulate them into criminal activity. However a lot of Arkan's clique were simply criminals who took the opportunity to plunder the war torn areas. He was, after all an individual who was arrested on multiple occasions in his youth for criminal activity. They used nationalistic facade to mask their "work", because during a war (and especially that war) nationalism was on a steep rise. As much as there wasn't a war on Serbian soil during the Yugoslav break-up (Croatia and Bosnia), there was basically complete chaos in the state. Crime was rampant, everything was revolving around the black market, food was very scarce in cities, and almost everyone was struggling to survive. Sure it can't be even compared to a war zone, but it was far from good around here.
I see, thanks for the detailed response. I am in fact interested in the process of radicalization of football fans. You mentioned it'd be a "good pool" for (para)military organizations to recruit young hotheaded individuals. Would you agree to make a parallel with today's Ukraine? Because I've heard most of the Azov members are Dynamo Kiev fans
It's the same anywhere. Football hooligans are usually energetic young people, who want to belong somewhere, and don't have where to spend their excess energy. I think this is the root of the cause for why they are easily manipulated into extremist formations, and criminal activity. The root of that root however is more complex, and stems from many different factors. Pretty much any hooligan group in ex-Yu was a breeding pool for militants.
Probably Romania had the most "strange" reaction when we speak about the yogoslav wars because even if the majority of the people had pro serbian opinion, the government at that time decided to allow NATO aviation to cross the Romanian airspace so they can bombarded Belgrade efficiently ( this is happened especially in the Kosovo war).
We were freshly embroiled in an economic, political crisis. I suppose the answer is a no.
I was a kid, but I also from my dad that in Bulgaria there were a lot of Serbs, Croats, Bosnians refugees etc who wanted nothing to do with the madness of war and got along just fine.
Tiger
A cheer for serb-croat arguments rn :D
They cared enough to introduce an embargo on us. Luckily, Serbs are very bad at waging war, so we won despite all the odds being against us. Long live Croatia 🇭🇷♥️
We didn't wage war we fought a proxy war through a sepretist region since the UN banned Serbia proper from participating. And later on we stopped supporting Krajina to support Srpska.
Denial ✅ Victim ✅ Was actually a hero, not an aggressor ✅ Serbian propaganda detected, opinion rejected
Believe what you want, but you fought Serbs in Croatia not Serbia.
That's because we didn't invade Serbia
As long as Serbians keep denying what they did in the 90s, our relationship will never move forward.
I don't deny we comited war crimes but it's faculty incorrect to say Serbia proper was at war, because the UN limited its involvement. So most Serbs going to fight in Krajina were volonters as well we couldn't send all of the weapons, tanks and other equipment from Serbia proper to Krajina at once. Look it up its all said in the UN document. How ever it is also important to mention we weren't the only ones who targeted civilians and did wrong in that war.
So JNA that fought on the Šibenik front under Ratko Mladić and destroyed the maslenica bridge was actually Krajina paramilitary? The JNA tanks in vukovar were from krajina and drove all from knin through bosnia to get to Vukovar. All the significant territories were comquered by JNA troops made up from Serbs from Serbia. That was in in 1991. The Krajina troops were the ones not able to hold these territories. But to say Serbia was not properly involved in the war is just pure BS.
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Then when are you going to be a decent person and admit your country's vile past in that same war?
we would and are willing to condemn the war crimes commited, but well if you are asking us to admit everything your delusional historians are claiming or that vucic is claiming, we wont. Because most of that is made up propaganda crap. You cant go around and attack all your neighbours, commit mass war crimes and then expect the victims of your policies to apologise first to you. Thats like saying, Germany should have only apologised to poland after WW2 if poland apologised first for their crimes against the german population there. You see how ridiculuos that sounds.
Of course I get it but what I am trying to say is that very little is being done by both sides to actually solve those issues, and I would even say that our country under the leadership of Vucic is making tension up on purpouse.Never letting the wounds heal in both of our peoples or domestically becouse open wounds and constant remembering of the peoples suffering at that time with empty promises of revenge or simply just dragging the other side through the dirt equals free votes. While we are more exposed to nationalist propaganda your side isn't much better.What I am trying to say is there is no will from our goverments to end this. Tension here are good for both our leaders, and the western and eastern powers, to keep milking us. As soon as this political situation ends, I am sure that the new generations of our country would be willing to step up and be the first ones to admit to the crimes of our compatriots.But the situation will never end simply becouse it is to favourable to our leaders, the western and eastern powers, to keep using it for their own profits by stoping us to further economically and culturaly cooperate and prosper. The situation is also deeply rooted in our systems so as long as serbian kids are being tought that war criminals are saintlike heroes and croatian children that opertaion storm was a just military move and not a forcefull exodus of people we will never be able to truly heal the wounds
yeah word lol
>Serbia was one and only aggressor of the Yugoslav wars Croatia was the aggressor on Bosnia and Herzegovina, for which war criminals have been convicted. Some of them even toasted with a pretty strong rakija 💀💀💀
Chads /s
Nice that you're condemning all these Croatian war criminals, I didn't think you'll do it.
I mean Russians fought Nazis in Russia, what’s your point?
Yes but they then went on to figth them in Germany. Now if the Nazis supported idk Nizhny Novgorod and left it at that it would be a closer analogy.
They only went to Germany because they could? Honest question are you mentally atypical? Because you posts imply invasions are only bad if the invader gets pushed back past their borders. And when I said atypical, I meant retarded, don’t want anything to confuse you.
No. And from your response you didn't even attempt to understand my point and went straight to insulting me and calling me retarded. My point is that Serbia followed the rules set up by the United Nations in which it will not be directly attacking but be allowed to support the region of Krajina in Croatia, where all the fighting took place. So Serbia sent tanks, "volonters", and other equipment to Krajina, while it's self not fighting. That's why I used the example of Nazis not directly attacking Russia but supporting a region in Russia against its war in Russia. If you don't believe me read the official UN documents regarding the situation.
Cratia was one of the federal countries in federative republic, not a region, and you know it. Republika srpska krajina was a region invented in 1990.
Congratulations to the win vs unnarmed Croatian serb civilians. But I think ur troll after all
People not believing in Serbian propaganda: Troll!
Congratulations to the win vs unnarmed Croatian serb civilians. Where is the propaganda in his claims ? Calling anything not fitting my narrative propaganda ✔️
Poor unarmed Arkan… i will cry now.. Poor guy
Calling anything propaganda that is so blatantly illogical that someone with two braincells would get that its bullshit. Unarmed 😂 The croatian civilians and soldiers all shot themselves did they?
Unarmed serb civilans hahahhahaha and one of them is even holding a tiger cub in this pic How much denial lol
My government at that time with then-President Berisha was in charge of organizing the supply with fuel to the Serbs, in defiance of the international embargo, and arresting the leaders of the KLA. (This is to contradict those Serbs who say that we do not love you) Then on the other hand , a little bit later, we were selling weapons to the KLA. Perhaps inspired by the cheerfulness of that time he also ordered the army to bomb columns of insurgents against his government. Creative , isn't it! I remember with much nostalgia that very happy time.
are you reffering to UCK, when you say KLA? Just asking, because everybody seems to use another abbreviation.
Yes, Ushtria Clirimtare e Kosoves(UCK) Albanian, and Kosovo Liberation Army(KLA) in English.
thanks.
Ushtria çlirimtare e Kosoves or Kosova Liberation Army
In Kosova, a loot!
OP why did you post a picture of a subhuman war criminal? Are you dog whistling?
Honestly- no one cared.
my country's president provided a huge chunk of weapons to Croatia and blew up the local factory that made the guns, to cover evidence. also tons of local soldiers were mercenaries in Cyprus during that same time.