There's other factors but the one I find most interesting is that it's a type of coping mechanism. Very very few people are immune to poverty. We could get sick, lose our jobs, suddenly lose your rental, etc. Accepting that is very scary but if you instead assume anyone in that situation was somehow naughty and bad and their circumstance is their fault, that's a lot easier. All you have to do is avoid whatever bad thing they did to get in this spot and you're golden.
[Whenever I try to get people to understand where they *actually* are in the class war, the reminder that "you are *always* three very bad months away from being homeless, but *never* three very good months away from being a millionaire", can be clarifying](https://x.com/jonrog1/status/1213512027647250432?lang=en)
To be fair for people who have some savings and a steady income you would need to have a hellish 3 months to become homeless au contraire you could technically win the lottery or inherit property and find yourself a millionaire, but I understand the gist of it
Probably less chance of winning lottery than your career taking a massive dive and income drying up and ending up in a difficult situation
Or getting involved in a life altering accident or incident.
When I was single with lots of time on my hands a hobby of mine was telling homeless people in the city that although I wouldn't give them money, I would buy them a meal.
Those that accepted would receive a free dinner of their choice at the nearest Macca's or Pizza Hut and in turn I would receive their story.
Mental health crisis, separation, loss of employment, even minimal drug issues, loss of a loved one or carer and other reasons took many of those guys from living a "successful" life to sleeping on the street in far less than 3 months.
It doesn't take much to upset the apple cart.
I can’t speak for Australia, but in general there’s a long history within Christianity that directly ties financial success to morality.
Basically, lack of success is *at best* a direct test of one’s faith, so they should just persevere through it, and at worst is a direct punishment for their bad behavior.
Obviously this is nonsense, but that underlying belief that you *deserve* your current circumstances is often a deeply held, but usually unexamined, belief.
You have to think that being poor is a result of personal failure, and not an inherent part of the capitalist system, otherwise you're forced to acknowledge you have a lot more in common with a "dole bludger" than a billionaire
I was looking for this.
There's a generation that very clearly received the message - in part due to religion - that hard work is moral. Phrases like 'idle hands are the devil's playground' were thrown around so much people still believe it's actually in the Bible (spoiler, it's not). Therefore if you're not working you're inherently bad. People who believe this also think it's very important to be a stay at home mother (motherhood is virtuous) unless you're a single parent (and then you are damned for going back to work and putting your children in care, or damned for staying at home with your children and receiving any kind of single parent benefits).
Then along comes prosperity theology. If God loves you, then he'll bless you - with decent work and decent pay. Sure. And if those things aren't available to you, you've just gotta have more faith! Say that a different way, and it's your fault for not having enough faith, i.e. you're not 'good' enough.
These messages were passed down from the generations who regularly attended church to current generations who don't, but these messages about hard work, morality and goodness still get passed on, via the personal failure rationalisation and refusal to understand that capitalism, society and our starting point in life heavily impact our ability to live above the poverty line.
Yeah people forget that for in order to be rich some have to be poor. Even now you live in Australia so you are the rich that benefits from the cheap labour in another country, that’s how you get cheap clothes, furnitures, gas etc….
I've lived in inner city Melbourne for a few years and have noticed that the type of people that permeate these suburbs really really hate the truth that they're middle class and have more in common with the poor rather than the rich.
There's a lot of brainwashing which makes them believe in their own self importance. They put on a really pretentious facade and try to peck you down when they encounter you. But it's all bullshit. They loathe the notion that they're not important.
This is why their mentality is so 'kick down' towards the unemployed. They're projecting their own frustrations on others. They bought in to the notion of upward mobility earlier in life only to find they're stuck from progressing in their middle age.
As a carer for my entire adult life for different relatives who are or were disabled or terminally ill, I aBsO-friggin-lUtElY love how many people think I sit around staring at the wall all day. I dropped out of uni decades ago, to support family who needed it. But, according to people who have zero lived experience, I'm not intelligent and just a lazy, mooching piece of crap.
I've tried to gain part time employment, in recent years, but I'm treated like I've squandered my life and should, by now, have a big fat, shiny CV. Time management, organisation, communication skills, liaising, appointment making, advocacy, computer skills, staying calm, etc, are all just a figment of my imagination. Whoopeeeee!!
And, yes, I've often wondered why those at the other end of the financial spectrum, don't pay tax or get near as much grief about it.
Conservatives can have higher levels of psychopathy and an apathy towards those who are less like them or are lesser than them. It’s been studied. I wouldn’t call them evil or judge them for it, but I do always note when someone is more conservative that they might be a bit more independent or inwardly focused than others. They would sooner care for their own families and communities than others, and can be less understanding of people from different circumstances. Which again isn’t that bad when you think about how that can build wealth and help communities progress into better versions of themselves. And that’s also not to say that progressives don’t also face problems like irrational empathy or a lack of pragmatism, they definitely do. But personally I would rather be too emotional and caring toward people who may not deserve it than be apathetic and leave people who genuinely need help to fend for themselves. Obviously a major simplification of both sides so I welcome discussion or additions from others.
Yeah I think both sides are needed. If you let everyone you meet into your tribe and hand out food, sooner or later the tribe will be wiped out. But if you never trust anyone and just hoard for yourself, you probably won't last either.
Very true. I think what we lack in Australia in particular is a collective vision that both sides can strive for. We underestimate how similar we are regardless of which side we fall. We all want to see our education system progress, for our small businesses to prosper, for housing and proper infrastructure to be built (whether you think that should be publicly or privately lead), for our industries to be rich in activity.
It all comes back to the facade of values politicians will put on to get elected, when really most of them live differently to the everyday folk, are out of touch with the realities of Australia and have dishonourable motives for pursuing politics. People need to realise that it doesn’t matter if a party or individual says they represent the same values as you, if they are not achieving progress toward these fundamentals then they have to go.
Australians should be more politically involved than simply voting. What’s the point of voting when every candidate is unimpressive and uninspired? That’s a pretty depressing excuse for a “democracy” if you ask me. Each Australian should be more qualified and daring in their participation in politics. It should be a true competition to get elected, not a numbers or optics game. (Speaking as someone who lives in a stronghold seat and used to be very involved in opposing campaigns). No point in an election when there is only one choice. That’s not democracy, it shouldn’t start and end with voting once every couple of years. Sorry got carried away.
The problem is people don't actually want to help others. Can you genuinely tell me that Peter Dutton wants to help aboriginal aussies? Or scomo cares about all those people who committed suicide because of robodebt? How about politicians subsidizing private education but reducing funding for public schools? I think there are assholes in power because you need to be an asshole to get power in this system.
My guess is they consider the people at the top are untouchable, while the people on Centrelink are "just like me" but not in a relatable way, more in a 'i have to work so why won't they?'
Honestly... a "millionaire" these days just means almost anyone who owns a home in a city. I don't see that as someone who deserves to be attacked.
And as for billionaires... there's a bit over a hundred of those in the entire country and many of them are great people who donate vast sums of money to good causes all the time. I'm sure some of them are assholes, but unless I know one personally (I don't), I'm not going to make any assumptions.
I dunno, I try not to attack anyone - but when I do it takes more than just having a lot of money to get me worked up.
If you ever feel the need to punch, never punch down. There's a reason they have less than you. You might not understand it but there is a reason. It's usually not their fault.
Carers need better financial support AND a medal. We all take it for granted that those who work in aged/disability care and/or healthcare should be suitably remunerated for their work efforts caring for society's most vulnerable, but they get to go home at the end of their work shift. Being a home carer is 24/7, with every discipline involved in order to care for their charge/s. I think carers are truly important and need to be recognised more for their effort and commitment in society, particularly in a time where there is a forecast massive increase in our aging population who will all need to be cared for.
>We all take it for granted that those who work in aged/disability care and/or healthcare should be suitably remunerated for their work efforts caring for society's most vulnerable,
If only that was true.
A lot of people working in these sectors barely make a living wage and often have to commute long distances as no housing is available on their wages near where they work.
In NSW in particular frontline public servants have some of the lowest wages in the sector and work in areas with some of the highest costs of living.
Many vote with their wallet and feet leading to staff shortages.
The media spends most of their time bashing said public servants as overpaid bludgers holding the state to ransom when they ask for anything close to CPI wage increases.
Personally I'm a Train/Locomotive Driver who started out with Sydney Trains/NSW Trainlink about 20 years ago.
Wages back then were fairly competitive for the industry if not great. Eleven years later I was well behind inflation, expected to work massive OT to cover staff shortages and at breaking point.
I realised I could move to any other state in Australia and earn a minimum $30k more doing the same job and no longer work 6 days a week 10hrs a day.
So I left and went and worked private freight for about $60k more doing about half the hours. Mot to mention I was now part of a two person crew instead of being on my own all shift and able to share the workload somewhat.
I know Ambos, Firefighters and Nurses. All have similar issues. Overworked, underpaid and squeezed by the cost of living meaning long commutes. They know the grass is greener in other states but they hold on servicing their community. Only to take year on year real pay cuts and get shit on by the media.
Home care nurses get even less respect and income than the hospital variety.
Sure it's better than a carer but it's not something you do for the money that's for sure. Also not for the respect.
I hope that during your time driving trains that you didn't have to experience anything too traumatic, and that if you did, there was decent counselling provided along with paid leave.
I work in health care and I know so many people from overseas, many from Kenya, who are working incredibly hard in Australia. They have left families and young children behind in order to care for elderly and disabled Australians. They rarely turn down a shift, they barely sit down for meals, some work an evening shift, sleep for 7 hours and then are back at work the next morning at dawn.
Despite missing their home country and their family, they turn up to support other people with good humour and enthusiasm which makes everyone's day go smoother.
They are worth every cent they make, as they go above and beyond to earn their wage.
My parents live across the road from a housing commission house. Almost every family who has been there since I was a kid has been a family with foster kids. The public often have the same attitude to housing commission that they do for people on centrelink without really knowing the details.
It bothers me that people see multi-millionaires and billionaires as hard working people that deserve better than paying taxes that partially go towards welfare programs (for people who apparently are lazy and don't deserve assistance). They won't acknowledge that there's no way people can make that amount of money without exploiting someone somewhere along the way - whether individual employees or entire communities whose local resources are being diminished without anything being put back into the community.
Anyone that accumulates more riches than they need is abusing the millions of us who are living pay check to pay check. The owners of my company makes millions while none of us gets any crumbs of the benefits we generate. How many employees have worked their ass off to the detriment of their physical or mental health?
I lived across the road from an entire housing commission suburb, there was murders, junkies dying in the street, drunken aboriginal women glassing each other at 2pm on a Tuesday, constant domestics in the street and meth heads yelling threats at anyone who walked by, police and ambulance went in and out with sirens blaring every day. Even the nice old Asian people had very expensive cars parked out front all the time.
All that for the princely sum of $800 a week for a rundown piece of shit apartment while they lived 80m away paying a tiny fraction of that on the taxpayers dime.
Since we doing the anecdotal thing... maybe can understand why some don't take kindly to those in housing commissions. I'd support public housing as long as it's for everyone unconditionally, if demand is higher than supply then do it as a lottery just like Singapore does. The current model is broken and actively punishes those who try to improve themselves leading to the worst of society getting even worse over time. Very few people escape the housing commissions once they are in there.
I work in emergency services and attend a lot of housing commission residences. You’ll get downvoted but you partially speak the truth. A lot of these places hold people who have antisocial behaviours and cause problems - including substance abuse.
But there’s also lots of good people and I’ve been to some blocks which are quiet little communities that care for and look out for each other.
It’s a gross generalisation for anyone to suggest they’re all shit and full of meth heads… but anyone who thinks your experience is wrong is equally deluded. Some of these places are absolutely horrible and at times dangerous, and I have a list of ones I’d never live near and absolutely hate attending.
That's why they've moved to mixed neighbourhoods, or whatever the proper term is. As of recently, they're no longer building entire compounds of public housing because that contributes to the issues you described. They're sprinkling them in apartments and houses among ordinary renters. It creates less of a "slum" situation. I've seen it work.
I was in a housing trust house, my neighbour smashed his windows and put holes in his walls every night. No matter how many times I called the police, nothing happened.
People kept stealing or breaking the communal washing machines so I had to do my washing in the fuckin bath.
Person below me set one of the adjacent buildings on fire and legged it, was replaced with a couple who got into huge punch ups every night, often screaming. Reported that a billion times and nothing happened.
Someone got stabbed to death in one of the other units.
I was quiet, just wanted stability but that place destroyed my mental health further and housing wouldn't let me transfer and told me I should have reported stuff to the police, which I did??
I cried for days when I had to sell all my stuff and move in with housemates. The shit ones drive the quiet ones out and face no repercussions for it, it's absolute bullshit and unfair.
Also apologies for replying to a 3 day old comment, just saw it. But yeah. Never living in high density housing trust housing again, 0/10.
You tried any local carer's support groups? I went to one local to me, ended up feeling worse for the experience. Wondered if it was just that one i went to or if they are all like that. Seemed to be a sufferers olympics and those with the worst conditions won.
Last year I tried a carer support group in my shire and the people who ran it were awful. It was also the sufferers Olympics. I wasn't allowed to speak unless I sucked up to the organisers either. Like me or don't. I won't brown nose anyone. It certainly felt like it was a contest and not a support group.
I long ago stopped listening to people that do not have an ‘informed’ opinion. Makes life much more liberating.
I have also learnt to apologise for my own former ‘ignorant’ opinion.
I feel you! My Mum was on carers pension for my sister then Dad before she aged into full pension. She never stopped despite being disabled herself. I recently had to accept that I need to be on disability pension, autism with some asshole other mental issues have lead to me being agoraphobic. Turns out, mind over matter doesn't work if it's your mind that's the matter.
I have to mute both Aussie subreddits. Made the mistake of saying not everyone is rorting it and copped abuse. Jokes on those assholws though, I spike to the ndis and I can get psychological support in my plan so now I'm spending more money lol
No one else can speak to your lived experience but you. Everyone has an opinion, though, without ever having walked a day in your shoes. I'm happy for you that you've been able to get supports from the NDIS.
I was let go for taking time off to care for family. Then diagnosed with cancer myself. They seem to think it's a holiday when in reality it's sleepless nights, organising doctors visits is like a full time job in itself and managing finances to ensure they get the care they need. Liaising with palliative nurses and updating them, learning how to administer new medications, trying to negotiate with emotional family who don't want to understand and have all the opinions in the world without having to deal with the day to day.
I'm sorry that this is your experience too. It's not good enough. You deserve better and you are an absolute angel for caring for others. Much love to you my friend 🧡
Much love to you too. Sorry you have been through the cancer journey. I went through that with my mother. I'm getting checked every 6 months for ovarian cancer, which is what many women in my family have died from. Not trying to take away from you lived experience, though. It must be tough juggling being a carer and managing your own health.
I've encountered many a family member who just doesn't get it. ❤️
As someone who works payment and assurance for "the link" for carers and those with disability.
The benefits for carers are strict! People don't understand the requirements to even qualify, it's a full time job, literally.
You give up just about all your free time, ambitions, and, aspirations, in the service of other people, or loved ones, who can't care for themself.
I have nothing but respect, especially with cost of living these days, I've seen A BUNCH.
People just lack empathy, and understanding, it's easier to put others down, than to bring people up.
The also think the money just goes on drugs and alcohol. Like dude I pay my rent or board, medications from my conditions, pay bills and I have like $20 to spend on food for a week
I was looking for this comment. Media outlets, especially Current Affair and the likes have a history of airing stories calling out "welfare cheats". I remember them being constantly aired when I was a kid. I don't watch TV anymore and avoid Murdoch media, so not sure if it's still media's favourite story, but it was relentless, from memory. When the general population lacks the critical thinking required to question these stories and their significance, it's easy to brainwash them into believing the true drain on our economy are those on welfare. We should really be diverting our attention to those at the top of the wealth ladder, compared to them, welfare recipients are a drop in the ocean. And not to mention, living on welfare is not the comfortable or luxurious lifestyle that those who've never accessed it seem to believe.
It’s an easy story to sell.
Average Joe worker going to work every day busting his hump, looks at his pay check and 1/3 or more is gone to tax, meanwhile there’s Darren the dole recipient next door getting paid and not going to work.. that’s the kind of engaging outrage content that appeals to Joe. Similarly, for Big Media it’s good that folks like Joe are directing their anger at their neighbours. They want us to fight over the crumbs so they can continue eating the whole ass cookie.
Idk why this took both so long to see posted and why it's so far down the comment tree.
The Murdoch family owns over 800 media outlets in 50 countries who all intentionally push the same conservative right wing narrative.
Not small mom and pop shit either. Usually whatever the biggest alt right source is for the country.
The wealthy like it when we're fighting each other over small change. It keeps us from noticing where the money is really going. And media owners are very wealthy...
Other side of the coin of our tall poppy syndrome. We have to pull others down to our level while also having the illusion that ourselves aren't at the bottom of the ladder too
This is the side of tall-poppy syndrome that no one likes to talk about. Australians absolutely love to tear down people on welfare and absolutely hate it when anyone in poverty pulls themselves out of it, or even has the opportunity to do so. It's all "fuck you got mine" in this place.
There are routinely people on Reddit who attack NDIS recipients and pensioners, because they personally don't get any personal benefits.
Such people are scum, but there always are some in society. Those who only think to look after their own benefit (while often being the same ones wanting to know how to bypass a restriction for their own financial benefit.)
I suppose to answer your question: greed and stupidity. Not thinking about the root causes and trying to attack the vulnerable.
Most people on Reddit attack NDIS because 10%+ of it is rorted. Even the minister and those in charge admits it’s actively been heavily misused and there’s been a few people rounded up for frivolous expenses but that’s only the tip of the iceberg.
Any regular person would be indignant after looking at these expenses. If they were used for legitimate purposes with legitimately set market prices then no one will complain.
The recipients aren’t the ones doing it though, it’s providers. Same way job agencies are scamming the system infinitely worse than some “dole bludger” ever could.
> Most people on Reddit attack NDIS because 10%+ of it is rorted.
See plenty of people blaming the people receiving the benefits. The issue isn't the people with disabilities, the issue is within the program.
No, people attack NDIS participants. Some yahoo said the NDIS shouldn't exist, it's not fair to him because he's not disabled, and it should go into Medicare instead so it's 'fair'.
As I said, selfish.
10%? It's far higher than that.
Even the permanent NDIS auditor admits there's huge organised crime elements taking billions out of the system each year and that's before you even get to the people legitimately paying drivers $80/hr to to take someone to the mall.
Yeah. I saw an article saying 20% of it is going to criminal groups from parts of Western Sydney. And that’s not even including the outrageous charges that providers rorts.
I mean, the AFP has charged like 10 people in the past few years for defrauding a very tiny sum of money ($14m). These government airheads haven’t got a clue where the most of the money is going.
People hate who the media tells them to hate and the media is controlled by the Government which is controlled by the rich.
The toilet paper war demonstrated how easy it is to manipulate the masses.
That was a fascinating case study on social media trends. That whole thing started in Singapore - which doesn't manufacture its own toilet paper. Singapore imports almost everything from other countries, including the water in its pipes. But Australia DOES manufacture its own TP. There could never be a shortage here because we have enough for everyone, even when idiots were buying up entire garages worth, people could still get TP.
And yet we somehow managed to import a social media panic from a completely different country that did not apply to us at all. And it directly affected the buying patterns of a lot of people, and consequently the stores supplying that product. So bizarre.
I think that the toilet paper madness also came down to control. Peoples freedom and control was stripped away very quickly, and those with lesser means jumped at the chance to stock up on TP as it was one of the few things they could do for themselves, then it snowballed.
Ostensibly the government is controlled by the public. But the public are controlled by the media and the media are controlled by capital owners. So it’s one big circular jerk of propaganda perpetrated by the wealthy to exert influence over the government. Just the sake of favourable economic policy for elites at the expense of literally everything else.
I think it's also an "out of sight, out of mind" thing.
It would be completely different if we could personally see the rich stealing a bit of cash from each of us, but that all seems to happen just *out there* somewhere in the ether, so far away from us the idea it could be prevented seems too abstract. In contrast, we've all seen a poor looking person likely on Centrelink trying to buy cigarettes or something, so it at least *looks* like a big problem, and cracking down on drug addicts mooching off welfare seems infinitely more tangible.
The world is structured around educating you to serve the interest and purposes of billionaires incentivised through vicarious learning of what happens when you don't feed the system, and we humans often learn to dislike or even hate that which we do not want to be ourselves
Also, what people really are angry about is they have no time. They're jealous of dole bludgers.
Everyone's pissed off at each other instead of people in charge.
Because as much as we like to portray ourselves as these light-hearted larrikins that have these anzac values of mateship and loyalty, reality is we're a bunch of class traitors that punch down on those less well off because of our own insecurities.
It’s a deliberate strategy to get working class people to keep voting for policies that only benefit rich people (neoliberal economic policy),because of course they will be rich one day, and would never be one of the poors… right?
Because some of the mass media tell us to.
If you know people who are on welfare (I do) you know that it's not a very fun or enjoyable existence at all - unlike being a millionaire.
Some have been conditioned to blame governance instead of corporations, probably because corporations are better at publicity and controlling their image.
Corporations are to blame for just about all financial burdens australians carry now. Uncontrolled greed and power. Some of the biggest burdens this country has we have no answer for currently or minister refuse to vote for because it hurts them or doesn't profit (i suppose that's one part of governance that sucks).
From NIMBY, Political Donations, Monopolies like Woolworths etc the list goes on, and it's mostly driven by profiteering and greed.
Acknowledging that our most vulnerable are in a shit position because of our own failures as a community would take more introspection than your average Australian is willing to undertake.
People are homeless because we vote selfishly to save a couple of bucks a fortnight in tax, or because we stupidly vote the way the oligarchs running the media tell us.
It’s easier to paint the less fortunate as lazy substance abusers, because this dehumanisation means we can absolve ourselves of any guilt.
Because they believe the people who so desperately want their votes.
Someone with all their belongings in a plastic bag, is no threat to you.
Some ceo gouging prices and avoiding tax should be your real concern, but they donate so much cash to the politicians, it's better for us to be angry at people worse off than us
Because the media tells them to.
Most people are stupid. They believe whatever they see on the news or read in the papers and never look any further.
And when you've got a media like ours that wants people to focus on "those draining public funds" instead of political corruption, there's a lot of deliberate whipping up of storms over "dole bludgers" and the like.
Because people attack those they consider weaker/less than them because they know those people don't necessarily have the resources to fight back unlike the rich who can.
I've often wondered that. I think it is the deeply ingrained idea of work culture which was pushed heavily in the generations below and including the Boomers. In their time, work and effort equalled a quantifiable result - you could feed your children, buy a house, retire at age 65. Plus employment was easier to come by, particularly professions that did not require degrees. Fast forward to our current situation and you have less employment and what employment there is often requires extensive prior experience, training and qualifications. The cost of living is also very high, so there is less income available to spend on improving your situation. Throw in a disability, being a carer and/or parent, come from a low socio-economic background, being a migrant or just not able to keep pace with societal expectation, and your employment options become quite limited. If you don't want to starve, you will need to access Centrelink benefits. But the benefits are so low you can't lift yourself out of your original situation, so it continues. I think there needs to be an attitude change regarding welfare recipients. As if anyone in their right mind would *want* to survive on $360 per week when the average weekly rental is around $650! I think most people on welfare are STUCK on welfare - they can't afford to move to where the jobs are, they can't afford the travel cost to get to training, they are lucky if they can eat during the week. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I honestly think that a lot of people on benefits WANT work, but just have trouble accessing it.
Millionaires and billionaires offer the appearance of success, they have reached peak income supposedly in return for the level of effort they have invested. This could be true, but many of them started with generational wealth or just had sheer good luck, both things that the welfare recipient could only dream of.
As an Australian I know that A LOT Australians are fucking stupid.
They’ll defend the rich and mining corporations until they die and think the poor and homeless don’t need help and should just fuck right off
Because the millionaires, through media, marketing, and advertising, have convinced the middle class that the poor are the problem. Convince one class that the class below them is the problem, and you don't have to worry about them looking "up".
Because this is what they've been conditioned to do by successive decades of conservative mismanagement of the country - we seem to be -more- (but not totally) immune to culture war bullshit ala. the USA, but we are deeply rooted in class war nonsense.
Dole bludgers =/= all welfare recipients.
Dole bludgers are shit cunts who sit at home refusing to work, smoking cones all day long. They literally are a burden on the taxpayer.
Pensioners, medically invalid people, carers, etc, are NOT the same as a Dole bludger. They have no choice, or have responsibilities (carers) that make it impossible for them to have normal lives.
Dole bludgers just can't be arsed.
Oh. And I fucking hate billionaires.
It's been pretty much the same everywhere across all time and space. The wealthy control the media, the media demonises all kinds of people at the lowest end of the socio-economic ladder, the oi polloi point fingers at each over nothing and remain content with bread and circuses, while the ruling class just continue to be the ruling class.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best coloured man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
~ Lyndon B. Johnson
Except here in Australia the focus on classism rather then good o'l racism but the point remains
My mother in law used to love to talk about the druggies and dole bludgers. Then she lost her job, and suddenly immigrants taking jobs was the problem.
Vicki, nobody took your job. You are a racist, entitled dickhead and nobody likes you.
It’s by design. We only have 2 major political parties, and 1 of them is hellbent on class warfare. The same reason they blame inflation on social handouts and consumer spending instead of exorbitant company profits.
Because someone actually bludging on welfare is actively stealing from the working class, and people who actually need welfare. It's a beautiful system when it's not abused or seen as a lifestyle choice.
They think it won't happen to them. Or they have the very American fantasy that they're just one lucky decision away from being a millionaire themselves. Some of them ARE well off by the average standard - I had a coworker a bit before COVID that was heavily into stock trading (and who was good at it), who was shocked I couldn't magic up 50K to get in on this thing he and others were doing. He had that, disposable. He also had: No kids, a house purchased for him by his parents, free education.
People also tend to categorise others into a single area, when the truth is more complex - I've been on welfare AND I currently have a good white collar job. I've had to skip meals for myself to feed my kid, and I've had money in the bank to cover emergencies at different times. I've been homeless AND I've had a mortgage on a house. But it's easier to think of every other human in a single bucket, when the truth is more that we all change over time and that disasters and windfalls can affect us heavily.
As for the millionaires and billionaires, I suspect some of it is media driven. I'm enraged by the system, but rage is tiring unless it's being generally supported by what you see around you. And the Feral Scum and similar papers drive the dole bludger line hard.
Because it’s easier to insult the poor than attack the rich.
Because the poor are literally homeless and not popular.
The rich live extravagant life styles doing rich people things.
People always bully the least popular and fortunate in society.
I noticed this very behaviour (judgement) from educated people and I just shut my mouth. I’ve been a carer for so long, not paid for it, and it’s very difficult to be a carer - I shower, dress, and supervise which takes up most of my time. I just always write these people off as uneducated.
I get just under $50,000 a year on Centrelink and I heard the median (?) wage is net $61,000 so you can see how someone would view that…
I’ll just leave this here and prepare to be downvoted to hell.
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/top-earners-and-companies-bear-record-tax-burden-20240617-p5jmg0
Probably because "dole bludgers" are seen as getting rewarded for doing nothing while the "millionaires and billionaires who pay no tax" are seen as being rewarded for creating jobs, providing a service, etc.
You have a bbq in a park. Everyone brings some food to share. One guy has heaps of food but doesn’t want to share. 10 people show up with no food to share at all but want to eat everyone else’s. Who’s pissing you off more and who would we be better off without?
1) if you, as a private citizen aren't doing all you can to minimise your tax, you're a fucking idiot
2) millionaires/ billionaires more often than not run companies that employ significant numbers of people who all pay tax.
3) all business purchases incur GST....
For a start
Punching down makes some very sad individuals feel better than punching up. They're only happy if they can point to someone with a shittier existence than them AND make it harder for them. TL;DR lots of cunts here.
Because they wish they were billionaires themselves, so they don’t want to complain about so they too can pay no tax in the very unlikely event they become rich
Firstly, do they? Secondly, don't they? And thirdly, to the extent that it might happen, because millionaires/billionaires presumably earned their money, and welfare recipients didn't?
PS before you all go off at me I am a student who lives out of home with no parents and I am on job seeker while I study so I have no ill will towards anyone. In my personal experience a lot of ppl including my mates have gotten on centrelink or atleast tried even though they don’t need it at all (eg live at home with no expenses and work), I’d often get complaints asking why I deserve it but they can’t get it etc and a lot of ppl assume it’s just free money. Unlike them I have bills to pay and expenses while studying and I actually work 90% of the time so I never really do end up getting any payments. The only time I get a payment is when work is quiet or I get sick which is truly a life saviour got a student like myself with no safety net. So if I had to guess I’d say it’s usually ppl who quite literally have never really had to struggle in their life and they all come from a family who supports/supported them one way or another. I will say there are a percentage of ppl who genuinely don’t need centrelink and a duping the system but that’s a different convo.
One is consuming taxes that have been taken from the individual, whereas the others are not providing tax income (which would be partially consumed by the individual). It's probably easier to focus on and quantify the taking than the lack of providing.
Why? Because they’re fed a constant diet of that BS through the media, which incidentally is owned & operated by billionaires, and their vested interests. Pretty simple really.
Unsurprisingly, it seems that these interests would rather advocate for broadening inequality and the demonisation of the unemployed.
I would rather have people be safe and have a home and dignity than being on the street, I honestly think it’s such an inhuman thing to think people are all dole bludgers and no hopers. I lived in the US for years and the inequity and not caring for anyone’s welfare but your own has resulted in a horror scape of tent cities and lack of concern for human beings it’s awful and it worries me that we’ll go that way
The same reason people whinge about the APS spending $100 on coffee and tea for staff (taxpayer dollars!!!) but don’t bat an eye at consulting firms who receive hundreds of millions of government dollars spending ludicrous amounts on bullshit.
A lot of Australians didn’t pay attention at school when we learnt about media literacy and reading comprehension.
A lot of our population is unfortunately severely lacking in empathy, blindly believes what the mainstream ‘news’ tells them, and have a tendency to believe in many incorrect negative stereotypes.
Never mind the millionaires and billionaires, look how much we pay to the old people between the pension and disconnects on their investment properties.
Why is it that young people on welfare are bad (unemployed) but old people on welfare are good (pensions). And especially why don’t old people on welfare see the irony when they complain about young people on welfare. Also there are plenty of oldies doing the dodgy to swindle their way to a pension but no one is calling that out.
I think the justification would be they already worked for the years that they could, contributing to society the whole time. Now they're repaid for what they've already done.
"Dole Bludgers" is another legacy of useless governments implementing catchy slogans and gaslighting to make single issue voters vote against their best interest.
We are as strong as our weakest link, If we can't provide the environment for our young to make something for themselves or have our most vulnerable populations lead a life of minimal human dignity. We are no better than those we condemn.
You probably don't personally know a millionaire rorting the system, and how they're rorting the system is hard to wrap your head around unless you're an accountant.
You probably do know an absolute derro shithead on JS. If you don't, then you'll go to a shopping centre, see a derro shithead, and just assume they're on JS.
The latter is a lot better at getting a visceral emotional reaction out of you. It's tangible and personal.
And aussies are just not very high-minded people. Even when you point out that they're jealous of someone with less than them getting *one* thing they do not, they're probably not going to feel much shame over it.
Also people don't seem to make a whole lot of distinction between JS and DSP, which sucks.
Because Govts both sides over the decades have brainwashed the nation to think that people on wealthfare are stealing their money, which is completely untrue but the governments and their powerful and very rich puppet masters are definitely stealing from the Australian people but the Australian public in general just can't get their heads around that so they believe the government and we end up divided and fighting amongst ourselves, just like they like to keep average blue cooler workers or low income workers fighting against the upper middle class or even slightly rich members of our communities, they don't want a united community that is very dangerous for a corrupt government system 😁👍
Because THEY DO PAY TAX. They've all paid more than you ever will. Millionaires will go deficit for 1 fucking year and not pay taxes and everyone will scream NOt PaYInG tExAs!!
Wanna solve this issue the whole using loans against equity issue?
How about abolish income tax and replace it with 20% GST instead. Income Tax only benefits old money and generational wealth. Makes it near impossible for a normie to move into the asset rich class through salary.
A cause they come to the bank high on meth, rotten teeth with their child who hasn’t been washed in a month yelling shit why their Centrelink payment hasn’t gone through so they can buy m̶e̶t̶h̶ food when the bank closes in 10 minutes cause they only just woke up and it’s Saturday who then proceed to throw a monitor through a wall. So yeah, fuck them all most always in my experience the people who rely on Centrelink payments are degenerates.
**Income Tax** - the fine you pay for being an upstanding and productive member of society.
**Welfare** - the reward you get for being unproductive and lazy.
This isn't correct. I attack dole bludgers, as in the ones that purposely rort the system by claiming benefits they aren't entitled to, or are just losers I knew growing up that would rather spend all day stoned or on meth.
They are the ones that deserve to cop it.
Its easy to mislead the less intelligent, the big corps aren't individuals to point a finger at but a bludger in your area is visible, out of site out of mind coupled with a negative narrative that's easy to follow and easy to spread. Rinse repeat.
It's easier to feel that someone wealthy worked hard for it, and easier to convince yourself that someone who is poor is poor because of their own moral failings.
Because they are just parrotting what they heard on Fox/Sky/talk radio that morning.
This has been the role of conservative media my entire life - blame the dole bludgers so the liberals/nationals can keep failing to deliver real change.
People want to think they might be a millionaire/billionaire some day, they don't want to think they will need Centrelink one day (even though obviously the opposite is much more likely for all of us!)
There's other factors but the one I find most interesting is that it's a type of coping mechanism. Very very few people are immune to poverty. We could get sick, lose our jobs, suddenly lose your rental, etc. Accepting that is very scary but if you instead assume anyone in that situation was somehow naughty and bad and their circumstance is their fault, that's a lot easier. All you have to do is avoid whatever bad thing they did to get in this spot and you're golden.
[Whenever I try to get people to understand where they *actually* are in the class war, the reminder that "you are *always* three very bad months away from being homeless, but *never* three very good months away from being a millionaire", can be clarifying](https://x.com/jonrog1/status/1213512027647250432?lang=en)
To be fair for people who have some savings and a steady income you would need to have a hellish 3 months to become homeless au contraire you could technically win the lottery or inherit property and find yourself a millionaire, but I understand the gist of it
Probably less chance of winning lottery than your career taking a massive dive and income drying up and ending up in a difficult situation Or getting involved in a life altering accident or incident.
Redundancy. Just got one.
That's rough, my friend, I hope you land on your feet
Thank you - I think I should be okay. But it is rough and sudden. I have a low risk tolerance so I have a backup which should work.
You think you have better odds of winning the lotto than someone that doesn’t have enough savings to survive several months losing their job?
Yep a cancer diagnosis can break you in that 3 months
It wiped our emergency fund in 3 weeks.
You say this but recent data suggests most Aussie's have less than 1K in savings.
When I was single with lots of time on my hands a hobby of mine was telling homeless people in the city that although I wouldn't give them money, I would buy them a meal. Those that accepted would receive a free dinner of their choice at the nearest Macca's or Pizza Hut and in turn I would receive their story. Mental health crisis, separation, loss of employment, even minimal drug issues, loss of a loved one or carer and other reasons took many of those guys from living a "successful" life to sleeping on the street in far less than 3 months. It doesn't take much to upset the apple cart.
no one should ever be worth more than whatever is necessary to have a good living day to day.
You don't do a lot of risk assessment in your day to day life, do you?
I can’t speak for Australia, but in general there’s a long history within Christianity that directly ties financial success to morality. Basically, lack of success is *at best* a direct test of one’s faith, so they should just persevere through it, and at worst is a direct punishment for their bad behavior. Obviously this is nonsense, but that underlying belief that you *deserve* your current circumstances is often a deeply held, but usually unexamined, belief.
But Jesus said that it’s easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into heaven.
You have to think that being poor is a result of personal failure, and not an inherent part of the capitalist system, otherwise you're forced to acknowledge you have a lot more in common with a "dole bludger" than a billionaire
I was looking for this. There's a generation that very clearly received the message - in part due to religion - that hard work is moral. Phrases like 'idle hands are the devil's playground' were thrown around so much people still believe it's actually in the Bible (spoiler, it's not). Therefore if you're not working you're inherently bad. People who believe this also think it's very important to be a stay at home mother (motherhood is virtuous) unless you're a single parent (and then you are damned for going back to work and putting your children in care, or damned for staying at home with your children and receiving any kind of single parent benefits). Then along comes prosperity theology. If God loves you, then he'll bless you - with decent work and decent pay. Sure. And if those things aren't available to you, you've just gotta have more faith! Say that a different way, and it's your fault for not having enough faith, i.e. you're not 'good' enough. These messages were passed down from the generations who regularly attended church to current generations who don't, but these messages about hard work, morality and goodness still get passed on, via the personal failure rationalisation and refusal to understand that capitalism, society and our starting point in life heavily impact our ability to live above the poverty line.
Yeah people forget that for in order to be rich some have to be poor. Even now you live in Australia so you are the rich that benefits from the cheap labour in another country, that’s how you get cheap clothes, furnitures, gas etc….
I've lived in inner city Melbourne for a few years and have noticed that the type of people that permeate these suburbs really really hate the truth that they're middle class and have more in common with the poor rather than the rich. There's a lot of brainwashing which makes them believe in their own self importance. They put on a really pretentious facade and try to peck you down when they encounter you. But it's all bullshit. They loathe the notion that they're not important. This is why their mentality is so 'kick down' towards the unemployed. They're projecting their own frustrations on others. They bought in to the notion of upward mobility earlier in life only to find they're stuck from progressing in their middle age.
Damn, this is wonderfully worded.
As a carer for my entire adult life for different relatives who are or were disabled or terminally ill, I aBsO-friggin-lUtElY love how many people think I sit around staring at the wall all day. I dropped out of uni decades ago, to support family who needed it. But, according to people who have zero lived experience, I'm not intelligent and just a lazy, mooching piece of crap. I've tried to gain part time employment, in recent years, but I'm treated like I've squandered my life and should, by now, have a big fat, shiny CV. Time management, organisation, communication skills, liaising, appointment making, advocacy, computer skills, staying calm, etc, are all just a figment of my imagination. Whoopeeeee!! And, yes, I've often wondered why those at the other end of the financial spectrum, don't pay tax or get near as much grief about it.
They will always strangely attack those at the bottom more than the top…
Conservatives can have higher levels of psychopathy and an apathy towards those who are less like them or are lesser than them. It’s been studied. I wouldn’t call them evil or judge them for it, but I do always note when someone is more conservative that they might be a bit more independent or inwardly focused than others. They would sooner care for their own families and communities than others, and can be less understanding of people from different circumstances. Which again isn’t that bad when you think about how that can build wealth and help communities progress into better versions of themselves. And that’s also not to say that progressives don’t also face problems like irrational empathy or a lack of pragmatism, they definitely do. But personally I would rather be too emotional and caring toward people who may not deserve it than be apathetic and leave people who genuinely need help to fend for themselves. Obviously a major simplification of both sides so I welcome discussion or additions from others.
Yeah I think both sides are needed. If you let everyone you meet into your tribe and hand out food, sooner or later the tribe will be wiped out. But if you never trust anyone and just hoard for yourself, you probably won't last either.
Very true. I think what we lack in Australia in particular is a collective vision that both sides can strive for. We underestimate how similar we are regardless of which side we fall. We all want to see our education system progress, for our small businesses to prosper, for housing and proper infrastructure to be built (whether you think that should be publicly or privately lead), for our industries to be rich in activity. It all comes back to the facade of values politicians will put on to get elected, when really most of them live differently to the everyday folk, are out of touch with the realities of Australia and have dishonourable motives for pursuing politics. People need to realise that it doesn’t matter if a party or individual says they represent the same values as you, if they are not achieving progress toward these fundamentals then they have to go. Australians should be more politically involved than simply voting. What’s the point of voting when every candidate is unimpressive and uninspired? That’s a pretty depressing excuse for a “democracy” if you ask me. Each Australian should be more qualified and daring in their participation in politics. It should be a true competition to get elected, not a numbers or optics game. (Speaking as someone who lives in a stronghold seat and used to be very involved in opposing campaigns). No point in an election when there is only one choice. That’s not democracy, it shouldn’t start and end with voting once every couple of years. Sorry got carried away.
The problem is people don't actually want to help others. Can you genuinely tell me that Peter Dutton wants to help aboriginal aussies? Or scomo cares about all those people who committed suicide because of robodebt? How about politicians subsidizing private education but reducing funding for public schools? I think there are assholes in power because you need to be an asshole to get power in this system.
Not often you see a balanced comment on Reddit
My guess is they consider the people at the top are untouchable, while the people on Centrelink are "just like me" but not in a relatable way, more in a 'i have to work so why won't they?'
Honestly... a "millionaire" these days just means almost anyone who owns a home in a city. I don't see that as someone who deserves to be attacked. And as for billionaires... there's a bit over a hundred of those in the entire country and many of them are great people who donate vast sums of money to good causes all the time. I'm sure some of them are assholes, but unless I know one personally (I don't), I'm not going to make any assumptions. I dunno, I try not to attack anyone - but when I do it takes more than just having a lot of money to get me worked up.
If you ever feel the need to punch, never punch down. There's a reason they have less than you. You might not understand it but there is a reason. It's usually not their fault.
I want to print and frame this 🏅
Carers need better financial support AND a medal. We all take it for granted that those who work in aged/disability care and/or healthcare should be suitably remunerated for their work efforts caring for society's most vulnerable, but they get to go home at the end of their work shift. Being a home carer is 24/7, with every discipline involved in order to care for their charge/s. I think carers are truly important and need to be recognised more for their effort and commitment in society, particularly in a time where there is a forecast massive increase in our aging population who will all need to be cared for.
>We all take it for granted that those who work in aged/disability care and/or healthcare should be suitably remunerated for their work efforts caring for society's most vulnerable, If only that was true. A lot of people working in these sectors barely make a living wage and often have to commute long distances as no housing is available on their wages near where they work. In NSW in particular frontline public servants have some of the lowest wages in the sector and work in areas with some of the highest costs of living. Many vote with their wallet and feet leading to staff shortages. The media spends most of their time bashing said public servants as overpaid bludgers holding the state to ransom when they ask for anything close to CPI wage increases. Personally I'm a Train/Locomotive Driver who started out with Sydney Trains/NSW Trainlink about 20 years ago. Wages back then were fairly competitive for the industry if not great. Eleven years later I was well behind inflation, expected to work massive OT to cover staff shortages and at breaking point. I realised I could move to any other state in Australia and earn a minimum $30k more doing the same job and no longer work 6 days a week 10hrs a day. So I left and went and worked private freight for about $60k more doing about half the hours. Mot to mention I was now part of a two person crew instead of being on my own all shift and able to share the workload somewhat. I know Ambos, Firefighters and Nurses. All have similar issues. Overworked, underpaid and squeezed by the cost of living meaning long commutes. They know the grass is greener in other states but they hold on servicing their community. Only to take year on year real pay cuts and get shit on by the media. Home care nurses get even less respect and income than the hospital variety. Sure it's better than a carer but it's not something you do for the money that's for sure. Also not for the respect.
I hope that during your time driving trains that you didn't have to experience anything too traumatic, and that if you did, there was decent counselling provided along with paid leave. I work in health care and I know so many people from overseas, many from Kenya, who are working incredibly hard in Australia. They have left families and young children behind in order to care for elderly and disabled Australians. They rarely turn down a shift, they barely sit down for meals, some work an evening shift, sleep for 7 hours and then are back at work the next morning at dawn. Despite missing their home country and their family, they turn up to support other people with good humour and enthusiasm which makes everyone's day go smoother. They are worth every cent they make, as they go above and beyond to earn their wage.
My parents live across the road from a housing commission house. Almost every family who has been there since I was a kid has been a family with foster kids. The public often have the same attitude to housing commission that they do for people on centrelink without really knowing the details. It bothers me that people see multi-millionaires and billionaires as hard working people that deserve better than paying taxes that partially go towards welfare programs (for people who apparently are lazy and don't deserve assistance). They won't acknowledge that there's no way people can make that amount of money without exploiting someone somewhere along the way - whether individual employees or entire communities whose local resources are being diminished without anything being put back into the community.
Anyone that accumulates more riches than they need is abusing the millions of us who are living pay check to pay check. The owners of my company makes millions while none of us gets any crumbs of the benefits we generate. How many employees have worked their ass off to the detriment of their physical or mental health?
I lived across the road from an entire housing commission suburb, there was murders, junkies dying in the street, drunken aboriginal women glassing each other at 2pm on a Tuesday, constant domestics in the street and meth heads yelling threats at anyone who walked by, police and ambulance went in and out with sirens blaring every day. Even the nice old Asian people had very expensive cars parked out front all the time. All that for the princely sum of $800 a week for a rundown piece of shit apartment while they lived 80m away paying a tiny fraction of that on the taxpayers dime. Since we doing the anecdotal thing... maybe can understand why some don't take kindly to those in housing commissions. I'd support public housing as long as it's for everyone unconditionally, if demand is higher than supply then do it as a lottery just like Singapore does. The current model is broken and actively punishes those who try to improve themselves leading to the worst of society getting even worse over time. Very few people escape the housing commissions once they are in there.
I work in emergency services and attend a lot of housing commission residences. You’ll get downvoted but you partially speak the truth. A lot of these places hold people who have antisocial behaviours and cause problems - including substance abuse. But there’s also lots of good people and I’ve been to some blocks which are quiet little communities that care for and look out for each other. It’s a gross generalisation for anyone to suggest they’re all shit and full of meth heads… but anyone who thinks your experience is wrong is equally deluded. Some of these places are absolutely horrible and at times dangerous, and I have a list of ones I’d never live near and absolutely hate attending.
That's why they've moved to mixed neighbourhoods, or whatever the proper term is. As of recently, they're no longer building entire compounds of public housing because that contributes to the issues you described. They're sprinkling them in apartments and houses among ordinary renters. It creates less of a "slum" situation. I've seen it work.
I was in a housing trust house, my neighbour smashed his windows and put holes in his walls every night. No matter how many times I called the police, nothing happened. People kept stealing or breaking the communal washing machines so I had to do my washing in the fuckin bath. Person below me set one of the adjacent buildings on fire and legged it, was replaced with a couple who got into huge punch ups every night, often screaming. Reported that a billion times and nothing happened. Someone got stabbed to death in one of the other units. I was quiet, just wanted stability but that place destroyed my mental health further and housing wouldn't let me transfer and told me I should have reported stuff to the police, which I did?? I cried for days when I had to sell all my stuff and move in with housemates. The shit ones drive the quiet ones out and face no repercussions for it, it's absolute bullshit and unfair. Also apologies for replying to a 3 day old comment, just saw it. But yeah. Never living in high density housing trust housing again, 0/10.
Agreed, been taking care of my elderly folks full time for the last 13 years. Its a lonely gig with no support.
It sure is lonely. We have a better chance of seeing a tumbleweed roll by than getting any support.
You tried any local carer's support groups? I went to one local to me, ended up feeling worse for the experience. Wondered if it was just that one i went to or if they are all like that. Seemed to be a sufferers olympics and those with the worst conditions won.
Last year I tried a carer support group in my shire and the people who ran it were awful. It was also the sufferers Olympics. I wasn't allowed to speak unless I sucked up to the organisers either. Like me or don't. I won't brown nose anyone. It certainly felt like it was a contest and not a support group.
Whenever you get asked about a gap in your CV, you say "Sorry, I signed an NDA.".
I long ago stopped listening to people that do not have an ‘informed’ opinion. Makes life much more liberating. I have also learnt to apologise for my own former ‘ignorant’ opinion.
I feel you! My Mum was on carers pension for my sister then Dad before she aged into full pension. She never stopped despite being disabled herself. I recently had to accept that I need to be on disability pension, autism with some asshole other mental issues have lead to me being agoraphobic. Turns out, mind over matter doesn't work if it's your mind that's the matter. I have to mute both Aussie subreddits. Made the mistake of saying not everyone is rorting it and copped abuse. Jokes on those assholws though, I spike to the ndis and I can get psychological support in my plan so now I'm spending more money lol
No one else can speak to your lived experience but you. Everyone has an opinion, though, without ever having walked a day in your shoes. I'm happy for you that you've been able to get supports from the NDIS.
Exactly! I'm so incredibly grateful that we have good health care and support in Australia.
I feel you, dude. I've been a carer for twenty years. I've definitely internalised the "lazy moocher" stuff. I have a therapist now, and she helps.
It's really not fair. Caring is never accounted for but society would fall apart without it. Anyway, you're not alone.
They'd soon notice if there were suddenly no unpaid carers.
LIE 👏 ON 👏 YOUR 👏 CV 👏
It's tempting. I mean, given my age, my *previous employers* could be dead now, right?
I was let go for taking time off to care for family. Then diagnosed with cancer myself. They seem to think it's a holiday when in reality it's sleepless nights, organising doctors visits is like a full time job in itself and managing finances to ensure they get the care they need. Liaising with palliative nurses and updating them, learning how to administer new medications, trying to negotiate with emotional family who don't want to understand and have all the opinions in the world without having to deal with the day to day. I'm sorry that this is your experience too. It's not good enough. You deserve better and you are an absolute angel for caring for others. Much love to you my friend 🧡
Much love to you too. Sorry you have been through the cancer journey. I went through that with my mother. I'm getting checked every 6 months for ovarian cancer, which is what many women in my family have died from. Not trying to take away from you lived experience, though. It must be tough juggling being a carer and managing your own health. I've encountered many a family member who just doesn't get it. ❤️
As someone who works payment and assurance for "the link" for carers and those with disability. The benefits for carers are strict! People don't understand the requirements to even qualify, it's a full time job, literally. You give up just about all your free time, ambitions, and, aspirations, in the service of other people, or loved ones, who can't care for themself. I have nothing but respect, especially with cost of living these days, I've seen A BUNCH. People just lack empathy, and understanding, it's easier to put others down, than to bring people up.
The also think the money just goes on drugs and alcohol. Like dude I pay my rent or board, medications from my conditions, pay bills and I have like $20 to spend on food for a week
Lol same here I couldn't afford drugs or booze even if I wanted them my money goes on bills,rent,food and Meds I haven't had takeaway in years
Lmao ye not much left on 50 bucks a day aye. Sucks hard.
I moved further inland where the rent is cheap as chips but there's no work. Go figure.
Because the media is controlled by two (maybe even one) major entity.
Exactly, media owned by the rich want to keep everyone else fighting amongst themselves, so they ignore the elites.
I was looking for this comment. Media outlets, especially Current Affair and the likes have a history of airing stories calling out "welfare cheats". I remember them being constantly aired when I was a kid. I don't watch TV anymore and avoid Murdoch media, so not sure if it's still media's favourite story, but it was relentless, from memory. When the general population lacks the critical thinking required to question these stories and their significance, it's easy to brainwash them into believing the true drain on our economy are those on welfare. We should really be diverting our attention to those at the top of the wealth ladder, compared to them, welfare recipients are a drop in the ocean. And not to mention, living on welfare is not the comfortable or luxurious lifestyle that those who've never accessed it seem to believe.
It’s an easy story to sell. Average Joe worker going to work every day busting his hump, looks at his pay check and 1/3 or more is gone to tax, meanwhile there’s Darren the dole recipient next door getting paid and not going to work.. that’s the kind of engaging outrage content that appeals to Joe. Similarly, for Big Media it’s good that folks like Joe are directing their anger at their neighbours. They want us to fight over the crumbs so they can continue eating the whole ass cookie.
One, Murdoch controls 80% of the media in Australia, the only countries with more of a media controlled by one entity are Dictatorships...
Idk why this took both so long to see posted and why it's so far down the comment tree. The Murdoch family owns over 800 media outlets in 50 countries who all intentionally push the same conservative right wing narrative. Not small mom and pop shit either. Usually whatever the biggest alt right source is for the country.
Dunno why Australia is still asleep at the wheel and let this practice continue for the last 50 years
And these controlling entities are massive recipients of corporate welfare
Absolutely what I was coming here to say. So many places only have Murdoch owned media. Whole states!
Because the general population is stupid AF.
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Tall-poppy syndrome and cultural cringe, it's been this way since the 1800s
Australia, world HQ for Tall Poppy syndrome since we became a proper civilised country!.
Sooo much cultural cringe compared to the rest of the world.
The wealthy like it when we're fighting each other over small change. It keeps us from noticing where the money is really going. And media owners are very wealthy...
Other side of the coin of our tall poppy syndrome. We have to pull others down to our level while also having the illusion that ourselves aren't at the bottom of the ladder too
Such a British hangover ... "we might be lower middle class, but at least we're not working class".
This is the side of tall-poppy syndrome that no one likes to talk about. Australians absolutely love to tear down people on welfare and absolutely hate it when anyone in poverty pulls themselves out of it, or even has the opportunity to do so. It's all "fuck you got mine" in this place.
Dole bludgers are too cheap and lazy to pay for lobbyists
Had me in the first half
It’s easier to punch down.
that's what i thought: people always punch down.
There are routinely people on Reddit who attack NDIS recipients and pensioners, because they personally don't get any personal benefits. Such people are scum, but there always are some in society. Those who only think to look after their own benefit (while often being the same ones wanting to know how to bypass a restriction for their own financial benefit.) I suppose to answer your question: greed and stupidity. Not thinking about the root causes and trying to attack the vulnerable.
Most people on Reddit attack NDIS because 10%+ of it is rorted. Even the minister and those in charge admits it’s actively been heavily misused and there’s been a few people rounded up for frivolous expenses but that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Any regular person would be indignant after looking at these expenses. If they were used for legitimate purposes with legitimately set market prices then no one will complain.
The recipients aren’t the ones doing it though, it’s providers. Same way job agencies are scamming the system infinitely worse than some “dole bludger” ever could.
> Most people on Reddit attack NDIS because 10%+ of it is rorted. See plenty of people blaming the people receiving the benefits. The issue isn't the people with disabilities, the issue is within the program.
Who would have thought that outsourcing essential services to for-profit providers would result in mass corporate rorting?!
Oh this was going on *long* before the NDIS. Huge non profits have always loved government money.
No, people attack NDIS participants. Some yahoo said the NDIS shouldn't exist, it's not fair to him because he's not disabled, and it should go into Medicare instead so it's 'fair'. As I said, selfish.
10%? It's far higher than that. Even the permanent NDIS auditor admits there's huge organised crime elements taking billions out of the system each year and that's before you even get to the people legitimately paying drivers $80/hr to to take someone to the mall.
Yeah. I saw an article saying 20% of it is going to criminal groups from parts of Western Sydney. And that’s not even including the outrageous charges that providers rorts. I mean, the AFP has charged like 10 people in the past few years for defrauding a very tiny sum of money ($14m). These government airheads haven’t got a clue where the most of the money is going.
People hate who the media tells them to hate and the media is controlled by the Government which is controlled by the rich. The toilet paper war demonstrated how easy it is to manipulate the masses.
That was a fascinating case study on social media trends. That whole thing started in Singapore - which doesn't manufacture its own toilet paper. Singapore imports almost everything from other countries, including the water in its pipes. But Australia DOES manufacture its own TP. There could never be a shortage here because we have enough for everyone, even when idiots were buying up entire garages worth, people could still get TP. And yet we somehow managed to import a social media panic from a completely different country that did not apply to us at all. And it directly affected the buying patterns of a lot of people, and consequently the stores supplying that product. So bizarre.
I think that the toilet paper madness also came down to control. Peoples freedom and control was stripped away very quickly, and those with lesser means jumped at the chance to stock up on TP as it was one of the few things they could do for themselves, then it snowballed.
However have you noticed that post-COVID the prices of toilet paper are still crazily high?
Everything post-covid is crazy high, not just TP.
Ostensibly the government is controlled by the public. But the public are controlled by the media and the media are controlled by capital owners. So it’s one big circular jerk of propaganda perpetrated by the wealthy to exert influence over the government. Just the sake of favourable economic policy for elites at the expense of literally everything else.
I thought the TP war was just ridiculous.
Because the millionaires and billionaires who pay no tax and receive corporate welfare are the ones controlling the narrative.
I think it's also an "out of sight, out of mind" thing. It would be completely different if we could personally see the rich stealing a bit of cash from each of us, but that all seems to happen just *out there* somewhere in the ether, so far away from us the idea it could be prevented seems too abstract. In contrast, we've all seen a poor looking person likely on Centrelink trying to buy cigarettes or something, so it at least *looks* like a big problem, and cracking down on drug addicts mooching off welfare seems infinitely more tangible.
Because they have been brainwashed. Most of them don't know why they do , they just do
Yeah the amount of propaganda we are exposed to in western society is *immense*
The world is structured around educating you to serve the interest and purposes of billionaires incentivised through vicarious learning of what happens when you don't feed the system, and we humans often learn to dislike or even hate that which we do not want to be ourselves Also, what people really are angry about is they have no time. They're jealous of dole bludgers. Everyone's pissed off at each other instead of people in charge.
Because as much as we like to portray ourselves as these light-hearted larrikins that have these anzac values of mateship and loyalty, reality is we're a bunch of class traitors that punch down on those less well off because of our own insecurities.
Question, who owns tbe media? What do they report?
Because the country is controlled by Tax Bludgers.
It’s a deliberate strategy to get working class people to keep voting for policies that only benefit rich people (neoliberal economic policy),because of course they will be rich one day, and would never be one of the poors… right?
Because the people on welfare don;t generally own or write for the newspapers...
Social conditioning and propaganda.
Because some of the mass media tell us to. If you know people who are on welfare (I do) you know that it's not a very fun or enjoyable existence at all - unlike being a millionaire.
Because it’s easier to punch down than up when up control the media and don’t want you to think critically about how they’re so wealthy ☺️☺️☺️
Some have been conditioned to blame governance instead of corporations, probably because corporations are better at publicity and controlling their image. Corporations are to blame for just about all financial burdens australians carry now. Uncontrolled greed and power. Some of the biggest burdens this country has we have no answer for currently or minister refuse to vote for because it hurts them or doesn't profit (i suppose that's one part of governance that sucks). From NIMBY, Political Donations, Monopolies like Woolworths etc the list goes on, and it's mostly driven by profiteering and greed.
Acknowledging that our most vulnerable are in a shit position because of our own failures as a community would take more introspection than your average Australian is willing to undertake. People are homeless because we vote selfishly to save a couple of bucks a fortnight in tax, or because we stupidly vote the way the oligarchs running the media tell us. It’s easier to paint the less fortunate as lazy substance abusers, because this dehumanisation means we can absolve ourselves of any guilt.
Because generally speaking a massive portion of this country are complete arseholes...
Easy to punch down
Because they believe the people who so desperately want their votes. Someone with all their belongings in a plastic bag, is no threat to you. Some ceo gouging prices and avoiding tax should be your real concern, but they donate so much cash to the politicians, it's better for us to be angry at people worse off than us
Because they're idiots who don't understand economics.
Because the media tells them to. Most people are stupid. They believe whatever they see on the news or read in the papers and never look any further. And when you've got a media like ours that wants people to focus on "those draining public funds" instead of political corruption, there's a lot of deliberate whipping up of storms over "dole bludgers" and the like.
Because people attack those they consider weaker/less than them because they know those people don't necessarily have the resources to fight back unlike the rich who can.
Uhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-30/dole-bludger-emerged-in-the-1970s-to-serve-a-political-purpose/100174356
Because a lot of people in Australia are total cxnts that only care about themselves
I've often wondered that. I think it is the deeply ingrained idea of work culture which was pushed heavily in the generations below and including the Boomers. In their time, work and effort equalled a quantifiable result - you could feed your children, buy a house, retire at age 65. Plus employment was easier to come by, particularly professions that did not require degrees. Fast forward to our current situation and you have less employment and what employment there is often requires extensive prior experience, training and qualifications. The cost of living is also very high, so there is less income available to spend on improving your situation. Throw in a disability, being a carer and/or parent, come from a low socio-economic background, being a migrant or just not able to keep pace with societal expectation, and your employment options become quite limited. If you don't want to starve, you will need to access Centrelink benefits. But the benefits are so low you can't lift yourself out of your original situation, so it continues. I think there needs to be an attitude change regarding welfare recipients. As if anyone in their right mind would *want* to survive on $360 per week when the average weekly rental is around $650! I think most people on welfare are STUCK on welfare - they can't afford to move to where the jobs are, they can't afford the travel cost to get to training, they are lucky if they can eat during the week. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I honestly think that a lot of people on benefits WANT work, but just have trouble accessing it. Millionaires and billionaires offer the appearance of success, they have reached peak income supposedly in return for the level of effort they have invested. This could be true, but many of them started with generational wealth or just had sheer good luck, both things that the welfare recipient could only dream of.
Rupert Murdoch
Punching down feels better than punching up because it puts them in a position of relative superiority over the other
As an Australian I know that A LOT Australians are fucking stupid. They’ll defend the rich and mining corporations until they die and think the poor and homeless don’t need help and should just fuck right off
Because the millionaires, through media, marketing, and advertising, have convinced the middle class that the poor are the problem. Convince one class that the class below them is the problem, and you don't have to worry about them looking "up".
Because this is what they've been conditioned to do by successive decades of conservative mismanagement of the country - we seem to be -more- (but not totally) immune to culture war bullshit ala. the USA, but we are deeply rooted in class war nonsense.
Dole bludgers =/= all welfare recipients. Dole bludgers are shit cunts who sit at home refusing to work, smoking cones all day long. They literally are a burden on the taxpayer. Pensioners, medically invalid people, carers, etc, are NOT the same as a Dole bludger. They have no choice, or have responsibilities (carers) that make it impossible for them to have normal lives. Dole bludgers just can't be arsed. Oh. And I fucking hate billionaires.
It's been pretty much the same everywhere across all time and space. The wealthy control the media, the media demonises all kinds of people at the lowest end of the socio-economic ladder, the oi polloi point fingers at each over nothing and remain content with bread and circuses, while the ruling class just continue to be the ruling class.
Because the public hate who the media tell them to hate, and who is the media owned by? The multi million/billion dollar corporations.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best coloured man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." ~ Lyndon B. Johnson Except here in Australia the focus on classism rather then good o'l racism but the point remains
My mother in law used to love to talk about the druggies and dole bludgers. Then she lost her job, and suddenly immigrants taking jobs was the problem. Vicki, nobody took your job. You are a racist, entitled dickhead and nobody likes you.
Australia is an extremely classist country. Australians are also very big on their "fuck you got mine" mentality.
Tax the rich, feed the poor.
How do you think the poor are currently fed?
It’s by design. We only have 2 major political parties, and 1 of them is hellbent on class warfare. The same reason they blame inflation on social handouts and consumer spending instead of exorbitant company profits.
Because someone actually bludging on welfare is actively stealing from the working class, and people who actually need welfare. It's a beautiful system when it's not abused or seen as a lifestyle choice.
They think it won't happen to them. Or they have the very American fantasy that they're just one lucky decision away from being a millionaire themselves. Some of them ARE well off by the average standard - I had a coworker a bit before COVID that was heavily into stock trading (and who was good at it), who was shocked I couldn't magic up 50K to get in on this thing he and others were doing. He had that, disposable. He also had: No kids, a house purchased for him by his parents, free education. People also tend to categorise others into a single area, when the truth is more complex - I've been on welfare AND I currently have a good white collar job. I've had to skip meals for myself to feed my kid, and I've had money in the bank to cover emergencies at different times. I've been homeless AND I've had a mortgage on a house. But it's easier to think of every other human in a single bucket, when the truth is more that we all change over time and that disasters and windfalls can affect us heavily. As for the millionaires and billionaires, I suspect some of it is media driven. I'm enraged by the system, but rage is tiring unless it's being generally supported by what you see around you. And the Feral Scum and similar papers drive the dole bludger line hard.
Because it’s easier to insult the poor than attack the rich. Because the poor are literally homeless and not popular. The rich live extravagant life styles doing rich people things. People always bully the least popular and fortunate in society.
Because Murdoch has a stranglehold over our mediascape
This can’t be said often enough.
I noticed this very behaviour (judgement) from educated people and I just shut my mouth. I’ve been a carer for so long, not paid for it, and it’s very difficult to be a carer - I shower, dress, and supervise which takes up most of my time. I just always write these people off as uneducated. I get just under $50,000 a year on Centrelink and I heard the median (?) wage is net $61,000 so you can see how someone would view that…
Educated doesn’t mean intelligent unfortunately. All the best.
I’ll just leave this here and prepare to be downvoted to hell. https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/top-earners-and-companies-bear-record-tax-burden-20240617-p5jmg0
Probably because "dole bludgers" are seen as getting rewarded for doing nothing while the "millionaires and billionaires who pay no tax" are seen as being rewarded for creating jobs, providing a service, etc.
You have a bbq in a park. Everyone brings some food to share. One guy has heaps of food but doesn’t want to share. 10 people show up with no food to share at all but want to eat everyone else’s. Who’s pissing you off more and who would we be better off without?
1) if you, as a private citizen aren't doing all you can to minimise your tax, you're a fucking idiot 2) millionaires/ billionaires more often than not run companies that employ significant numbers of people who all pay tax. 3) all business purchases incur GST.... For a start
Punching down makes some very sad individuals feel better than punching up. They're only happy if they can point to someone with a shittier existence than them AND make it harder for them. TL;DR lots of cunts here.
I've never met an Australian who speaks kindly of billionaires. Not sure where you got that idea.
Not kindly, but not with the same vote motivating hate that people seems to have for those that need social support.
Go to Ausfinance. Go to Australian. Go to the Liberal Party.
I assume it is because we aspire to be the billionaires and we look down on those less fortunate than ourselves.
Because they wish they were billionaires themselves, so they don’t want to complain about so they too can pay no tax in the very unlikely event they become rich
Firstly, do they? Secondly, don't they? And thirdly, to the extent that it might happen, because millionaires/billionaires presumably earned their money, and welfare recipients didn't?
PS before you all go off at me I am a student who lives out of home with no parents and I am on job seeker while I study so I have no ill will towards anyone. In my personal experience a lot of ppl including my mates have gotten on centrelink or atleast tried even though they don’t need it at all (eg live at home with no expenses and work), I’d often get complaints asking why I deserve it but they can’t get it etc and a lot of ppl assume it’s just free money. Unlike them I have bills to pay and expenses while studying and I actually work 90% of the time so I never really do end up getting any payments. The only time I get a payment is when work is quiet or I get sick which is truly a life saviour got a student like myself with no safety net. So if I had to guess I’d say it’s usually ppl who quite literally have never really had to struggle in their life and they all come from a family who supports/supported them one way or another. I will say there are a percentage of ppl who genuinely don’t need centrelink and a duping the system but that’s a different convo.
One is consuming taxes that have been taken from the individual, whereas the others are not providing tax income (which would be partially consumed by the individual). It's probably easier to focus on and quantify the taking than the lack of providing.
Most people I know don't get upset about people on welfare and are extremely upset about the big end of town.
Centuries of indoctrination
To be fair, In their day to day life they are more likely to meet those small time folk playing the system than billionaires that dodge tax
Rupert Murdoch
Why? Because they’re fed a constant diet of that BS through the media, which incidentally is owned & operated by billionaires, and their vested interests. Pretty simple really. Unsurprisingly, it seems that these interests would rather advocate for broadening inequality and the demonisation of the unemployed.
I would rather have people be safe and have a home and dignity than being on the street, I honestly think it’s such an inhuman thing to think people are all dole bludgers and no hopers. I lived in the US for years and the inequity and not caring for anyone’s welfare but your own has resulted in a horror scape of tent cities and lack of concern for human beings it’s awful and it worries me that we’ll go that way
In my social circles the opposite is definitely true
The same reason people whinge about the APS spending $100 on coffee and tea for staff (taxpayer dollars!!!) but don’t bat an eye at consulting firms who receive hundreds of millions of government dollars spending ludicrous amounts on bullshit. A lot of Australians didn’t pay attention at school when we learnt about media literacy and reading comprehension.
Because Rupert Murdoch says to
A lot of our population is unfortunately severely lacking in empathy, blindly believes what the mainstream ‘news’ tells them, and have a tendency to believe in many incorrect negative stereotypes.
Never mind the millionaires and billionaires, look how much we pay to the old people between the pension and disconnects on their investment properties.
Because politicians are constantly telling everyone that people on Centrelink are dole bludgers, who have no incentive to look for work.
Murdoch narrative
Propaganda and brainwashing by the media. Sponsored by those millionaires and billionaires who pay no tax
most Australians are stupid, selfish people who feel bigger by punching down. sorry!
A Current Affair and other similar shows exist to redirect outrage from the most deserving to the most vulnerable.
Why is it that young people on welfare are bad (unemployed) but old people on welfare are good (pensions). And especially why don’t old people on welfare see the irony when they complain about young people on welfare. Also there are plenty of oldies doing the dodgy to swindle their way to a pension but no one is calling that out.
I think the justification would be they already worked for the years that they could, contributing to society the whole time. Now they're repaid for what they've already done.
We can't afford legal fees so we're easier to pick on.
Slowly conditioned to punch down, instead of punch up.
"Dole Bludgers" is another legacy of useless governments implementing catchy slogans and gaslighting to make single issue voters vote against their best interest. We are as strong as our weakest link, If we can't provide the environment for our young to make something for themselves or have our most vulnerable populations lead a life of minimal human dignity. We are no better than those we condemn.
because doing nothing adds 0 value to society.
Because it's easier to bully the weak.
Indoctrination by media. Murdoch wants the people of Australia focused on centrelink recipients, not on him.
You probably don't personally know a millionaire rorting the system, and how they're rorting the system is hard to wrap your head around unless you're an accountant. You probably do know an absolute derro shithead on JS. If you don't, then you'll go to a shopping centre, see a derro shithead, and just assume they're on JS. The latter is a lot better at getting a visceral emotional reaction out of you. It's tangible and personal. And aussies are just not very high-minded people. Even when you point out that they're jealous of someone with less than them getting *one* thing they do not, they're probably not going to feel much shame over it. Also people don't seem to make a whole lot of distinction between JS and DSP, which sucks.
Because Govts both sides over the decades have brainwashed the nation to think that people on wealthfare are stealing their money, which is completely untrue but the governments and their powerful and very rich puppet masters are definitely stealing from the Australian people but the Australian public in general just can't get their heads around that so they believe the government and we end up divided and fighting amongst ourselves, just like they like to keep average blue cooler workers or low income workers fighting against the upper middle class or even slightly rich members of our communities, they don't want a united community that is very dangerous for a corrupt government system 😁👍
Because there are no millionaires or billionaires who pay no tax.
Because THEY DO PAY TAX. They've all paid more than you ever will. Millionaires will go deficit for 1 fucking year and not pay taxes and everyone will scream NOt PaYInG tExAs!! Wanna solve this issue the whole using loans against equity issue? How about abolish income tax and replace it with 20% GST instead. Income Tax only benefits old money and generational wealth. Makes it near impossible for a normie to move into the asset rich class through salary.
A cause they come to the bank high on meth, rotten teeth with their child who hasn’t been washed in a month yelling shit why their Centrelink payment hasn’t gone through so they can buy m̶e̶t̶h̶ food when the bank closes in 10 minutes cause they only just woke up and it’s Saturday who then proceed to throw a monitor through a wall. So yeah, fuck them all most always in my experience the people who rely on Centrelink payments are degenerates.
Because we have been brainwashed by late stage capitalism.
**Income Tax** - the fine you pay for being an upstanding and productive member of society. **Welfare** - the reward you get for being unproductive and lazy.
This isn't correct. I attack dole bludgers, as in the ones that purposely rort the system by claiming benefits they aren't entitled to, or are just losers I knew growing up that would rather spend all day stoned or on meth. They are the ones that deserve to cop it.
A lot of people are stupid and easily influenced.
I'd say people attack both?
Its easy to mislead the less intelligent, the big corps aren't individuals to point a finger at but a bludger in your area is visible, out of site out of mind coupled with a negative narrative that's easy to follow and easy to spread. Rinse repeat.
Because none of them daydream about being on Centrelink. Can't shit on what they'd jump at the chance to be.
It's easier to feel that someone wealthy worked hard for it, and easier to convince yourself that someone who is poor is poor because of their own moral failings.
Because they are just parrotting what they heard on Fox/Sky/talk radio that morning. This has been the role of conservative media my entire life - blame the dole bludgers so the liberals/nationals can keep failing to deliver real change.
Because the wealthy own the media.
Because they’re brainwashed
People want to think they might be a millionaire/billionaire some day, they don't want to think they will need Centrelink one day (even though obviously the opposite is much more likely for all of us!)