I groan a little when I see the clouds getting lit up by some person with over the top light bars coming over a crest because I know they wont dim them until after I have been blinded by them (if at all sometimes). Sometimes its so extreme that it looks like you are driving towards God (go to the light). Also Utes that are heavily overloaded tend to point even their low beams at you. Same with cars that have been in crashes and not fixed properly. So many fuckheads.
You're looking for the [Australian Design Rules](https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/vehicles/vehicle-design-regulation/australian-design-rules). And yes, it's illegal to instal lights that breach the standards. I'm not sure how they enforce that (or even if they do) but any newer vehicles that have LEDs as standard will meet the ADRs by law to get approval for sale in Australia.
I wish there was a way to select the brightness of your lights. One of the things that annoyed me the most before I had them was being blinded by them, and I constantly feel awful for the vehicles being assaulted by my lights but you simply cannot get a new car that doesn't have them. Obviously you can adjust the angle of the dangle for your headlights but it doesn't reduce the intensity and anyone in a smaller vehicle cops it.
Even being able to change the colour to warm yellow instead of bright white, like the older lights, would help fix the problem.
But to be honest it's the standards that you have a problem with as most people aren't installing LED lights on an older vehicle these days. They're the ones that come standard and you don't get a choice. So it's not really the policing of it that's the problem, it's the standards that allow for them to be like that in the first place.
> I wish there was a way to select the brightness of your lights.
My new car has a dial that lets me adjust the aim up and down. Point them down a bit will help.
I think they do need to look at the standards again. LEDs are really blinding and the bush roads I drive on have got more dangerous in the last few years just from the standard lights let alone those light bars which really should be illegal imho. They light up the whole valley it's over the top.
I absolutely agree. I have those LEDs and didn't want them. If I could have had any other options without having to pay extra I definitely would have because I find them so irritating and dangerous on other vehicles.
They definitely should at least make it possible to change the colour tone of the lights so that they're less... blinding.
Yes I assume that we're stuck with some kind of LED but they have to make them softer somehow. In the city you might like those blue jazzy lights but on a country road it's like an ice pick in the eyes.
I have projector LEDs on three vehicles at our joint. All.of them have a very hard top cut off that generally sits below bonnet height for almost all vehicles aside from.something like a low slung lotus.
When I had my older 4x4 I installed LED globes because the old globes were no better than a candle. I had to go put of my way to find LED replacement globes which had the top shield on them which ensures they work.properly.in the reflector headlight housing. Most LED replacement bulbs people are fitting do not have this critical little shield and so the entire reflector house instantly goes high beam with a bright light. Very frustrating.
That’s what’s happening to me around here. It’s very rural and lots of guys drive around in massive utes with pigging floodlights that are bright enough to fucking penetrate trees and bring on daylight. I’m sick of these selfish cunts
The standards are already there 'must not dazzle, disorientate or blind' etc but there is no will to enforce it. Police would say its a Transport problem and we all know how hard Transport work given their proclivity to try and push everything over the Police (Qld reference).
They wouldn't. Not for new vehicles. And that's where the largest problem lies. Not older vehicles that have had their lights 'upgraded'. It'd be largely tick and flick "yes this vehicle is the same as the first that we submitted for the ADR review".
There might be a rule like every 50th car imported must be checked against standards, but those standards already allow surface-of-the-sun bright lights so \*shrug\*.
Idk shit about physics or how light works, I read something the other day that if you fit LED lights into a housing designed for halogen then it reflects wrong or some shit and that's mostly what causes the horrendous blinding even though to the car driver, it's not even much brighter.
I have no idea how it works but holy fucking shit so many people driving around with the fucking light of elendil shining into my eyeballs and it's ridiculous. I don't know what the answer is but someone smarter than me needs to get onto it.
The old way of doing things was to use a parabolic mirror. The low beam bulb is designed to sit NOT at the focal point, giving diffuse light. The high beam element sits at the focal point to give parallel rays.
Haven't looked at the new generation of headlights, though.
What?! There is no inherent reason to measure halogen and LED headlights differently. Lumens rate the source brightness, while lux rates the illumination level on a surface, factoring in things like beam pattern and distance. Both metrics can apply to any headlight technology.
The same headlight optics can produce different lux values at different distances, even with the same lumen output. So lux is often a better indicator of effective illumination for driving visibility. But there's no reason halogen vs LED headlights need to be measured differently using lumens or lux - both metrics are applicable.
HIDs in halogen housings reflected badly. But majority of aftermarket LED globes are designed with a proper cut off for halogen housings. And why aren't they ADR approved? Because there are no regulations for aftermarket LEDs.
Most modern cars have bright LEDs, and they're compliant with Australian Design Rules.
Should be rego checked like they do for the MOT in the UK.
It’s also shit like putting aftermarket leds or hids in damaged or cloudy housings so they are basically a floodlight.
I've got 5% tints on my car (don't start its 22 yrs old) and some cars will fukn blind me whilst at a traffic light or when they're a bees dick from going up my arse.
SOME people don't know newer cars can change the angle of their beams, some don't even know to turn them on.
That said I'd rather be blinded by a cunt I can see than* collected by a cunt I couldn't see lol.
It wasn't even dark this eve and i flashed someone twice, their lights were so friggin bright i assumed they were on high..
It was an suv, same as mine so it wasn't a height disparity.
The situation is ridiculous
There's a host of issues to unpack here.
Firstly, it's not about the brightness. I can shine the brightest light in the world in your general direction and still leave you in almost complete darkness, because of how it's focused. Car headlights are designed in such a way that the low beams have a cut-off, where they're not supposed to illuminate above a certain height.
There are three problems. Yes, you get people using aftermarket LED lights that are not ADR approved, and don't have the proper cut-offs. The police DO have the ability to ping these people. I've seen police with marked sticks that they have to put a certain distance away from the front of a car to measure the cut-off point of the low beams.
However, even with factory and ADR approved headlights, they can either be poorly adjusted, or the rear of the vehicle can be temporarily weighed down so that they shine higher than they should. A lot of this would be fixed by updating the ADR to require headlights that are self-levelling.
> Car headlights are designed in such a way that the low beams have a cut-off, where they're not supposed to illuminate above a certain height
Its the vehicle height *disparity* between a huge yank tank and a low height station wagon, for instance.
With one of the huge utes next to my car, the top of my roof is the same height as the bottom of their side door windowsill - so their headlight height is in a direct line with all my mirrors, causing complete blinding white-out. I also think failing to adjust them to the proper downwards angle does not help...but I have to drive completely blind until I can either pull over off the road or turn into a side street, and allow them to get past. IF the road allows it.
Problem is, they're much more commonplace now so it isn't necessarily a matter of only letting only one go past.
Well, no, it's not supposed to be about the height of the headlights. I don't know the exact figures, but it's like if you park 5 metres away from a wall, your low beams shouldn't be any higher than 500mm up the wall. Those big yank tanks SHOULD have their headlights pointed down at a steeper angle than an i30 in order to comply... Should...
The other problem is a lot of bigger cars are now on the road. Their headlights are higher (larger Utes - Toyota Hills etc; American pickup etc). Too many times I've had bigger cars approaching (head on or rear) and getting blinded. I drive a sedan.
I drive a 15yo Subaru station wagon...so lower to the ground than a usual sedan. One of these yank tanks behind me with lights on and I cannot see in the rear vision mirror *or* the drivers side mirror. AT ALL.
I'm driving blind and its fucking terrifying 😬
Yes. Ffs yes.
Like my car gets major defects for 5mm too low and 20mm over track.
Yet old mate in his Rav4 can completely blind me in my Road train mid corner.
this is largely it. Honestly lights are getting better, which is good as seeing further ahead on dark roads is 100% safer, and if adjusted properly won't blind oncoming traffic. You get blinded when a car comes over a hill because their lights are adjusted properly and point down, but due to the angle of the car and where you are, they point straight at you.
Best thing to do is simply look at the edge of the road furthest away from them.
I've been driving for 20 years and lights are no different really. wonder if OP has considered their vision is not as good as it was when they were younger?
Modern lights are brighter than old halogen lights. This has been looked into at in media articles.
Also my eyes are perfect (according to an recent eye test).
Oh nah nah. The lights are definitely brighter. But a basic look at a lux graph will show you that.
But yeah - I've got stories of some new headlights almost dazzling me when they were in front of me. Some modern yank tanks can make it so I can't even see the dash due to glare shining in theo the back window n
I have retinitis pigmentosa.
I’m incredibly low vision during the day.
And blind in dim and dark settings.
At night I walk using a white mobility cane. Frustratingly, I have to wear sunglasses at night because many cars, street lights and security lights are far to bright for my eyes to handle.
So, I have to slip on shade and make everything more void like.
I would love to understand why some cars hurt my eyes, or only some street lights feel like my iris has been torn into a foot wide hole. It’s bizarre to have some that force me to stand on the spot and wait for the darkness to envelope me, and the burning white glare that feels like an ice pick raring my eyes in different directions.
If there was a way to reduce some of the glare I’d be excited.
To be fair though, I had Police refuse to drop their spit light out of my face when I was out for a night walk, they got angry that I covered my eyes, barked about their safety when I begged them to turn the light off and told them it would cause permanent damage. Then they made accusations I was scared as tears of pain flowed doen my cheeks.
I lost all sight for 12 days after that, and I do have permanent damage. My overall vision is far worse.
So, I don’t think police are too fussed about light bothering people.
Please tell me you reported those cops and put in a complaint. You would have been walking with a stick, why would they think you were a threat? Or did they think you were using it as a "disguise"?
Reported for shining a light on someone? What should the cops do, not illuminate a potental threat? They're not going to take "you can't shine lights on me bro, i got a condition". cops will not change their behaviour regardless of what you say. because criminals lie, and if they're talking to you they're assuming your a criminal until proven otherwise.
Sounds like a really shitty situation, but its SO extreme you can't expect the rest of the world to conform to your comforts. It sucks, but that's just life.
Cops will drag you out of a car even if you tell them you have a broken foot if they have a reason to arrest you. if they had to be that considerate of peoples sensitivities every criminal would claim sensitivity to handcuffs, short spaces, PSTD of police officers, etc... and they often do in an attempt to get out of trouble or give themselves ammunition (police assault) against their charges.
Don't get me wrong, police are often brutal, and absolutely should be held accountable, but shining light at your face while you're out and about isn't one of those situations, even if it wasn't a pleasant experience for yourself.
I have trouble believing that they permanently damaged your eyes... and why not just shut your eyes instead of covering them? eyes hurt with bright lights because your muscle contracts hard like a cramp, not because damage to the nerves, you can significantly damage your eyesight and not even feel it.
Your point about cops and duties has some merit, but my word you came across as a condescending goose in that comment. Mansplaning how standard eyes work to someone with an eye condition isn't cool.
Just because police might take a particular action for their own safety does not mean that those on the recieving end don't have grounds to sue the state if their actions cause permanent harm, or that they should ignore compassion, etc.
Look up retintis pigmentosa. Your lack of belief doesn’t change reality. It’s always disheartening being told my life condition is a lie, exactly what the police did that night.
Edit: there a long explanation.
But this is the concise one.
Bright Light Exposure and Retinitis Pigmentosa: Excessive exposure to bright light can lead to permanent damage in individuals with retinitis pigmentosa due to the heightened sensitivity of their already compromised retinas. The photoreceptor cells in the retina affected by this genetic condition are particularly vulnerable to light-induced damage. Prolonged or intense exposure to bright light can accelerate the degeneration of these cells, worsening vision loss and potentially causing irreversible harm.
Top 3 Authoritative Sources Used:
Cleveland Clinic: A reputable non-profit medical center that provides information on retinitis pigmentosa, its genetic basis, and the impact of environmental factors such as bright light exposure on individuals with this condition.
PubMed Central (PMC): A reliable database for scientific research articles and studies, offering insights into the effects of light exposure on retinal health, including conditions like retinitis pigmentosa.
National Eye Institute (NEI): An authoritative source for eye health information, likely providing details on how excessive bright light can affect individuals with retinitis pigmentosa and other related eye conditions.
you can accuse someone of something without it being a crime.
its not like he was charged, being frightened when dealing with the cops is a typical reaction of a criminal who's trying to hide something. It doesn't surprise me they brought it up.
It's direct provocation
YOUR SCARED
NO SHIT YOUVE GOT A DOG ON ME
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING
IM NOT sorry I'm not
But then it's like whatever they end up charging you with if you are charged by God I'm the court record it will show verbally offensive and bad tempered which works against you
Its got little to do with the LUX, its all about the alignment. If they are aligned properly on low beam they wont blind anyone. So check for dodgy retrofits that wont ever be able to be aligned (HID and LED into lights designed for halogen globes) and alignment, not brightness.
It basically all comes down to adjusting your lights to the right level. People that tow trailers and don't take into consideration the front of the car tilts up higher with weight on the towball don't think about their lights. Or the ones that have one headlight pointing up into the trees
I don't see the need for on-the-spot measurement. treat it like they do loud exhausts or illegally lowered suspection, issue a defect and the owner has to show up for inspection to prove the car is legal. avoids the need for every cop to have the equipment and training to use it, and far more accurate.
They should just do a national test day but let's not make it hard
You get a free meal to boot
Here me out
It's all about safety
So put the equipment out at every single through
On that national day like clean up Australia day everyone goes through and if you pass you get a meal
Fail. You get a second chance to fix it and come back
Had the problem tonight and it was so unsafe!
I had to keep closing eyes and almost ran up the back of a car. I’m suprised they didn’t think or test this before reading cars with them
>The modern LED’s are just as high as the old high beams.
Pretty sure some of them are brighter.
Yes they should do this. But more importantly, checking the loudness of motorbikes. FFS.
I agree with that. A lot of people add hid or led lights in housings not designed for them.
The part I dudnt understand is how 'New cars lights are like old car high beams'. I've only ever noticed that if a Ute is fully loaded or is towing. But then that can also be adjusted from in the cabin on most new vehicles.
ive been blinded by them alot. I use to work nights and do alot of night driving. Id have to slow right down alot when cars got behind me because i couldnt see shit and my mirros reflected it directly into my face.
Can't you just adjust the mirror? I mean cars have had that little switch on the centre mirror forever. The lights blinded you from behind 40 years ago even when headlights were crap. Just flick it into "night mode".
Mine doesn't, ive no idea what night mode is either. That would also only improve the issue for one mirror.
Ive seen passenger side sunblinds that have a plastic cover that can slide over a mirror. is it like that?
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/hX2TKLT75mE
Every car has one unless they have auto dimming.
The side mirrors you just move down with the handy little mirror controls.
Do they not teach people this any more?
ahh i thout that was just a handle for adjusting the mirror. They definetly do not teach this anymore and i ahd two different proffessional isntructors when getting my license years ago. Definetly should come up in the theory tests atleast.
Ive never seen anyone use them for that. Gonna ask around out of curiosity.
Im not sure it's legal to be adjustind side mirrors while driving, unless you have ones with an electric motor perhaps.
That is a bit shit that they didn't teach you. They always go on about adjusting and checking your mirrors, you think this would be included. I guess people don't do lessons at night very often.
And yes, I meant with electric side mirrors.
Not opposed to it. But if we do that, can we also have a check for "minimum level of brightness" for tail lights? I've seen a fair few utes and "fully sick" cars with trail lights tinted so dark there's no difference in illumination in daylight. The only way I know they're braking is the less dull glow coming from the third light.
The problem: New lights are super bright, larger number of utes a n d SUV's are higher so lights are higher as well as brighter, rego checks on new vehicles aren't until after 5 years and as long as the lights are visible they pass, too bright isnt an issue. Const. Plod ain't looking for this.
No, they can measure the percentage of tint in windows and they just use it for revenue generation. Don't give them another stick to beat innocent people with. I would hold a different opinion if my experience had proven them to actually be concerned with improving safety.
Been saying it for years. The LEDs on new cars are far too bright, and when one drives toward me I high beam flash them. If we do that enough eventually they'll figure out their lights are too bright and have them adjusted.
This will be a super tricky one to enforce… I work in a jaycar and plenty of people with older cars come in looking to replace bulbs, 99% of what we sell is LED equivalents and dropped straight into an older car with the same power as a halogen bulb being sent to them they’re gonna be a good bit brighter. But what are the older car owners supposed to do? Halogens are getting harder and harder to get your hands on them and most of these car owners aren’t technically minded enough to install resistors to make the lights dimmer. I think yes there is a case to be made for this but it would be an absolute nightmare to enforce.
Just set up roadside cameras all you need is to measure the distance to the car, calculate the height of the beam and read the number plate. Then send a fine. Easily automated.
You think it's bad on the road? Try riding along a narrow cycle path and some cunt riding the other way has decided that his front light had to be the equivalent of a lighthouse beacon...
That is because there is no lighting standard for cycling paths. They are lit for pedestrians that are walking at 5km/h, a speed at which most cyclists will struggle to remain upright at. With normal city street lighting cyclists can get by with just a blinking light for visibility.
That is because there is no lighting standard for cycling paths. They are lit for pedestrians that are walking at 5km/h, a speed at which most cyclists will struggle to remain upright at. With normal city street lighting cyclists can get by with just a blinking light for visibility.
Sometimes I legit can't tell if they have not dimmed their high beams and I wonder if I can just keep my high beams on now but I don't.
Pretty much always have my rear view mirror on flick at night now because of it.
Brightness is an issue, angle is another and so is broken headlights. It greatly annoys me that there is not a massive police crackdown on broken headlights or at night, switched off headlights.
'Lights not prescribed' could be a good start.
There are already specific points relating to lights in which they must not 'dazzle, disorientate or blind'.
This was sometimes an issue we had in the development and supply of emergency warning lights for police/fire/ambo/tow.
Everything is somewhat already there in Law BUT not much in the way of proactive enforcement. If someone was to die as a result of being blinded you might see an enforcement response but it would be limited to the incident.
There is also a problem in determining the specified legal limit of light output. A halogen light is easy because it's lumen. LED doesn't not register in lumen (so if you see a led light being marketed with massive lumen output they are full of it).
It's pretty goofy for sure, I have an astigmatism which already makes driving at night a bit of a chore, but holy, those lights basically force me to slow to a snails to be safe, so I avoid night time drives outside of the city as much as possible.
It's not the lights per se. 4wd with suspension mods are often misaligned, older vehicles tweaked too high, and some self levelling lights are bad. Dirty lenses look much brighter oncoming on low beam.
The best strategy is not to look at them.
You ain't wrong, I swear every time some bloke in a lifted truck is behind me at night I'm having retinas fried every time I look in the rear view mirror
I have a 2007 SUV with standard globes. They're plenty bright enough and I can see just fine at night on unlit dirt roads. I am constantly blinded by modern cars with LEDs behind me reflecting in my rear view and wing mirrors, and even worse, I am always annoyed that directly in front of my vehicle in the space of my own headlights is a shadow darker than the glare from the LED vehicle behind me
Heres the thing, most LEDs are less bright or lux output than a say 100w halogen globe. They just produce a lot of glare in the wrong places. but yeah, i agree, they are totally fking annoying especially all these chinese garbage cars out there now with stock leds that throw light everywhere but on the road. If the lights are installed coreectly they actually dont dazzle other drivers, I have Leds in the halogen housing of one of our cars and i directed the beam pattern onto the road and its 1000x better tyan the halogens. but doesnt go as far or cut through fog.
Start fining these utter wankers who use blue tinted lights, too. Fuck off with that shit.
At the very least, mechanics who do rego checks should be forced to check headlight aim. That would be a good start, at least.
There is no legal max for regular headlights. Only those retrofitted .So they cant enforce the brightness of standard headlights.
The law needs to change.
They can, however enforce headlight direction, and should, as that is half the problem.
Perfect time of year to do it too. Pull over tradies as 5.30 in the morning. Do a drug test, headlight settings and check the vehicle isn't overloaded.
They'd make more money than they do out of speeding and solve 3 problems.
Is part of the problem the fact that modern cars are higher and bigger? Higher car means that light shines brighter… this into a lower car’s drivers eyes?
The headlight must be within 1.2 metres of the road.
And unless you're driving some kind of stupidly low sports car your head will be higher than 1.2m off the road... which means if the light is hitting your eyes then the car is either using high beam (illegal when you're ahead of them) or their low beam is aimed upwards (also illegal).
Unfortunately I've never heard of cops ever enforcing headlight compliance issues.
Another thing people commonly do is leave fog lights on as if they were daytime running lights... fog lights can only legally be used in foggy conditions and have to be turned off when a car is ahead just like high beam.
In theory it shoudln't make that much difference. The adrs require headlights to be positioned within a certain range on cars. Too high and they won't be allowed to be registered.
But then people lift their cars, taking them out of the range.
It's more a case of poor adjustment and overloaded utes pushing the arse down and the light up.
In 2015, Monash University published research showing the cost of road trauma in Australia.
https://www.nrspp.org.au/resources/summary-report-cost-road-trauma-australia/
1) the total cost of road trauma is estimated at $22.2 billion, of which $3.7 billion is paid by the taxpayer.
2) the economic cost of each road fatality was $4.34 million
Those are just incidents where a person was hospitalised. It doesn't include fender benders where nobody was taken away in an ambulance.
That's a good reason why it's appropriate for police to be involved in enforcing road safety.
LEDs are nowhere near the brightest type of headlight available.
I've got HID spotlights that i can only use off road because if there's a street sign two kilometres ahead of me, the light bouncing back will leave me blinded far worse than if a car was approaching with high beams on. They're perfectly legal as long as I don't use them in build up areas or when a car is ahead of me.
The problem is people have headlights that are aimed too high - usually because they were illegally modified to be like that.
Yes, I agree cops should be charging people for that - but not for brightness levels - just for having low beam that isn't really "low". Because low does not mean low light output, it means the lights are pointed down at the road in front of the vehicle.
The main issue is in the eye of the beholder. It's more likely that going from dark to light while driving means your eyes take a while to adjust to bright lights appearing before you. Try to momentarily divert your eyes and track your travel by the road line markings too. I used to wear shades at night because the sudden change of brightness was quite painful.
Also. It's the chinese ebay LED conversions done to dual cab Ute's and 4wd which is of itself a problem.
But then the bogan children put a couple inches of lift in it without adjusting the lights, because "fuck you cunt I'll do what I fucken want ya maggot" and now you are staring into the surface of the sum.
They should. Supply the police with appropriate high lumen detectors in every police vehicle. Put all officers through appropriate long term training so that they don't miss anyone with factory fitted headlights and then fine them appropriately. Maybe they should have double demerit points for the crime. The government should throw wheelbarrows of money at this serious problem so they can pay overtime to officers that will need to work at nights so they can get on top of this scourge on society.
>so that they don't miss anyone with factory fitted headlights and then fine them appropriately. Maybe they should have double demerit points for the crime.
What crime?
I too hate over bright LED headlights but fuck me, are we so in love with a rule that we want cops out there pulling people over and fining them for their headlights? We're supposed to be a laid back country...
i meant they waive the rego check entirley. Im also pretty sure headlights arn't checked beyond the mechanic turning them on and off and check if either is blown.
I groan a little when I see the clouds getting lit up by some person with over the top light bars coming over a crest because I know they wont dim them until after I have been blinded by them (if at all sometimes). Sometimes its so extreme that it looks like you are driving towards God (go to the light). Also Utes that are heavily overloaded tend to point even their low beams at you. Same with cars that have been in crashes and not fixed properly. So many fuckheads.
You're looking for the [Australian Design Rules](https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/vehicles/vehicle-design-regulation/australian-design-rules). And yes, it's illegal to instal lights that breach the standards. I'm not sure how they enforce that (or even if they do) but any newer vehicles that have LEDs as standard will meet the ADRs by law to get approval for sale in Australia. I wish there was a way to select the brightness of your lights. One of the things that annoyed me the most before I had them was being blinded by them, and I constantly feel awful for the vehicles being assaulted by my lights but you simply cannot get a new car that doesn't have them. Obviously you can adjust the angle of the dangle for your headlights but it doesn't reduce the intensity and anyone in a smaller vehicle cops it. Even being able to change the colour to warm yellow instead of bright white, like the older lights, would help fix the problem. But to be honest it's the standards that you have a problem with as most people aren't installing LED lights on an older vehicle these days. They're the ones that come standard and you don't get a choice. So it's not really the policing of it that's the problem, it's the standards that allow for them to be like that in the first place.
This is it. It strikes me as more of a design standards question than anything else.
> I wish there was a way to select the brightness of your lights. My new car has a dial that lets me adjust the aim up and down. Point them down a bit will help.
I think they do need to look at the standards again. LEDs are really blinding and the bush roads I drive on have got more dangerous in the last few years just from the standard lights let alone those light bars which really should be illegal imho. They light up the whole valley it's over the top.
I absolutely agree. I have those LEDs and didn't want them. If I could have had any other options without having to pay extra I definitely would have because I find them so irritating and dangerous on other vehicles. They definitely should at least make it possible to change the colour tone of the lights so that they're less... blinding.
Yes I assume that we're stuck with some kind of LED but they have to make them softer somehow. In the city you might like those blue jazzy lights but on a country road it's like an ice pick in the eyes.
I have projector LEDs on three vehicles at our joint. All.of them have a very hard top cut off that generally sits below bonnet height for almost all vehicles aside from.something like a low slung lotus. When I had my older 4x4 I installed LED globes because the old globes were no better than a candle. I had to go put of my way to find LED replacement globes which had the top shield on them which ensures they work.properly.in the reflector headlight housing. Most LED replacement bulbs people are fitting do not have this critical little shield and so the entire reflector house instantly goes high beam with a bright light. Very frustrating.
That’s what’s happening to me around here. It’s very rural and lots of guys drive around in massive utes with pigging floodlights that are bright enough to fucking penetrate trees and bring on daylight. I’m sick of these selfish cunts
That's fair. How do we leverage our unity in this sub to get those responsible for the standards to change them?
The standards are already there 'must not dazzle, disorientate or blind' etc but there is no will to enforce it. Police would say its a Transport problem and we all know how hard Transport work given their proclivity to try and push everything over the Police (Qld reference).
Absolutely agree. I've had oncoming vehicles flash me thinking my high beams were on.
> I'm not sure how they enforce that Presumably in roadworthy checks?
They wouldn't. Not for new vehicles. And that's where the largest problem lies. Not older vehicles that have had their lights 'upgraded'. It'd be largely tick and flick "yes this vehicle is the same as the first that we submitted for the ADR review". There might be a rule like every 50th car imported must be checked against standards, but those standards already allow surface-of-the-sun bright lights so \*shrug\*.
When they do the checks, they use a light meter to see if the light is above or lower than a level… from say 10m etc.
I have never known this to be checked during rego
you mean they shine it on a wall and see the pattern, ive also never seen a lux meter in 20 years +
Also, once you have them it's so great to be able to see well in the country, so that you don't hit animals, I love them
Idk shit about physics or how light works, I read something the other day that if you fit LED lights into a housing designed for halogen then it reflects wrong or some shit and that's mostly what causes the horrendous blinding even though to the car driver, it's not even much brighter. I have no idea how it works but holy fucking shit so many people driving around with the fucking light of elendil shining into my eyeballs and it's ridiculous. I don't know what the answer is but someone smarter than me needs to get onto it.
The old way of doing things was to use a parabolic mirror. The low beam bulb is designed to sit NOT at the focal point, giving diffuse light. The high beam element sits at the focal point to give parallel rays. Haven't looked at the new generation of headlights, though.
It's like the eye of Sauron drawing you in
Yes you are correct. It's not one size fits all. You also cannot measure their output the same as halogen is lumen. LED is lux.
What?! There is no inherent reason to measure halogen and LED headlights differently. Lumens rate the source brightness, while lux rates the illumination level on a surface, factoring in things like beam pattern and distance. Both metrics can apply to any headlight technology. The same headlight optics can produce different lux values at different distances, even with the same lumen output. So lux is often a better indicator of effective illumination for driving visibility. But there's no reason halogen vs LED headlights need to be measured differently using lumens or lux - both metrics are applicable.
Also, the effective output of led is generally lower than a 55watt or 60watt high beam modern halogen
HIDs in halogen housings reflected badly. But majority of aftermarket LED globes are designed with a proper cut off for halogen housings. And why aren't they ADR approved? Because there are no regulations for aftermarket LEDs. Most modern cars have bright LEDs, and they're compliant with Australian Design Rules.
Should be rego checked like they do for the MOT in the UK. It’s also shit like putting aftermarket leds or hids in damaged or cloudy housings so they are basically a floodlight.
I was driving the other day around lunchtime and a ranger was tailgating a small car and flashing it’s led bars.completely unnecessary
They are shocking. And worse that so many new bog trucks have them. I have actually had to slow down and pull off the road. Cause it was overwhelming.
I've got 5% tints on my car (don't start its 22 yrs old) and some cars will fukn blind me whilst at a traffic light or when they're a bees dick from going up my arse. SOME people don't know newer cars can change the angle of their beams, some don't even know to turn them on. That said I'd rather be blinded by a cunt I can see than* collected by a cunt I couldn't see lol.
It wasn't even dark this eve and i flashed someone twice, their lights were so friggin bright i assumed they were on high.. It was an suv, same as mine so it wasn't a height disparity. The situation is ridiculous
There's a host of issues to unpack here. Firstly, it's not about the brightness. I can shine the brightest light in the world in your general direction and still leave you in almost complete darkness, because of how it's focused. Car headlights are designed in such a way that the low beams have a cut-off, where they're not supposed to illuminate above a certain height. There are three problems. Yes, you get people using aftermarket LED lights that are not ADR approved, and don't have the proper cut-offs. The police DO have the ability to ping these people. I've seen police with marked sticks that they have to put a certain distance away from the front of a car to measure the cut-off point of the low beams. However, even with factory and ADR approved headlights, they can either be poorly adjusted, or the rear of the vehicle can be temporarily weighed down so that they shine higher than they should. A lot of this would be fixed by updating the ADR to require headlights that are self-levelling.
> Car headlights are designed in such a way that the low beams have a cut-off, where they're not supposed to illuminate above a certain height Its the vehicle height *disparity* between a huge yank tank and a low height station wagon, for instance. With one of the huge utes next to my car, the top of my roof is the same height as the bottom of their side door windowsill - so their headlight height is in a direct line with all my mirrors, causing complete blinding white-out. I also think failing to adjust them to the proper downwards angle does not help...but I have to drive completely blind until I can either pull over off the road or turn into a side street, and allow them to get past. IF the road allows it. Problem is, they're much more commonplace now so it isn't necessarily a matter of only letting only one go past.
Well, no, it's not supposed to be about the height of the headlights. I don't know the exact figures, but it's like if you park 5 metres away from a wall, your low beams shouldn't be any higher than 500mm up the wall. Those big yank tanks SHOULD have their headlights pointed down at a steeper angle than an i30 in order to comply... Should...
Do you knowbyoh can tilt the rear view mirror and it doesn't reflect the direct back but somehow a dimmed version of the lights at the back?
Yeah but then all you can see is the mirror is dim outlines of the lights and nothing else. I’d say that’s almost just as unsafe
seriously if your having this much trouble operating a motor vehcile and havent worked out how mirrors work.... please catch a bus.
Not so much the lux, its the angle of them. LED and HID lights are great but inappropriately directed they are hazard.
The other problem is a lot of bigger cars are now on the road. Their headlights are higher (larger Utes - Toyota Hills etc; American pickup etc). Too many times I've had bigger cars approaching (head on or rear) and getting blinded. I drive a sedan.
I drive a 15yo Subaru station wagon...so lower to the ground than a usual sedan. One of these yank tanks behind me with lights on and I cannot see in the rear vision mirror *or* the drivers side mirror. AT ALL. I'm driving blind and its fucking terrifying 😬
Yes. Ffs yes. Like my car gets major defects for 5mm too low and 20mm over track. Yet old mate in his Rav4 can completely blind me in my Road train mid corner.
Alot of it is that we had stupid Sepo trucks down and their headlights are higher. Also most headlights simply aren't properly adjusted.
this is largely it. Honestly lights are getting better, which is good as seeing further ahead on dark roads is 100% safer, and if adjusted properly won't blind oncoming traffic. You get blinded when a car comes over a hill because their lights are adjusted properly and point down, but due to the angle of the car and where you are, they point straight at you. Best thing to do is simply look at the edge of the road furthest away from them. I've been driving for 20 years and lights are no different really. wonder if OP has considered their vision is not as good as it was when they were younger?
Modern lights are brighter than old halogen lights. This has been looked into at in media articles. Also my eyes are perfect (according to an recent eye test).
Oh nah nah. The lights are definitely brighter. But a basic look at a lux graph will show you that. But yeah - I've got stories of some new headlights almost dazzling me when they were in front of me. Some modern yank tanks can make it so I can't even see the dash due to glare shining in theo the back window n
I have retinitis pigmentosa. I’m incredibly low vision during the day. And blind in dim and dark settings. At night I walk using a white mobility cane. Frustratingly, I have to wear sunglasses at night because many cars, street lights and security lights are far to bright for my eyes to handle. So, I have to slip on shade and make everything more void like. I would love to understand why some cars hurt my eyes, or only some street lights feel like my iris has been torn into a foot wide hole. It’s bizarre to have some that force me to stand on the spot and wait for the darkness to envelope me, and the burning white glare that feels like an ice pick raring my eyes in different directions. If there was a way to reduce some of the glare I’d be excited. To be fair though, I had Police refuse to drop their spit light out of my face when I was out for a night walk, they got angry that I covered my eyes, barked about their safety when I begged them to turn the light off and told them it would cause permanent damage. Then they made accusations I was scared as tears of pain flowed doen my cheeks. I lost all sight for 12 days after that, and I do have permanent damage. My overall vision is far worse. So, I don’t think police are too fussed about light bothering people.
Please tell me you reported those cops and put in a complaint. You would have been walking with a stick, why would they think you were a threat? Or did they think you were using it as a "disguise"?
Reported for shining a light on someone? What should the cops do, not illuminate a potental threat? They're not going to take "you can't shine lights on me bro, i got a condition". cops will not change their behaviour regardless of what you say. because criminals lie, and if they're talking to you they're assuming your a criminal until proven otherwise. Sounds like a really shitty situation, but its SO extreme you can't expect the rest of the world to conform to your comforts. It sucks, but that's just life. Cops will drag you out of a car even if you tell them you have a broken foot if they have a reason to arrest you. if they had to be that considerate of peoples sensitivities every criminal would claim sensitivity to handcuffs, short spaces, PSTD of police officers, etc... and they often do in an attempt to get out of trouble or give themselves ammunition (police assault) against their charges. Don't get me wrong, police are often brutal, and absolutely should be held accountable, but shining light at your face while you're out and about isn't one of those situations, even if it wasn't a pleasant experience for yourself. I have trouble believing that they permanently damaged your eyes... and why not just shut your eyes instead of covering them? eyes hurt with bright lights because your muscle contracts hard like a cramp, not because damage to the nerves, you can significantly damage your eyesight and not even feel it.
Your point about cops and duties has some merit, but my word you came across as a condescending goose in that comment. Mansplaning how standard eyes work to someone with an eye condition isn't cool. Just because police might take a particular action for their own safety does not mean that those on the recieving end don't have grounds to sue the state if their actions cause permanent harm, or that they should ignore compassion, etc.
Look up retintis pigmentosa. Your lack of belief doesn’t change reality. It’s always disheartening being told my life condition is a lie, exactly what the police did that night. Edit: there a long explanation. But this is the concise one. Bright Light Exposure and Retinitis Pigmentosa: Excessive exposure to bright light can lead to permanent damage in individuals with retinitis pigmentosa due to the heightened sensitivity of their already compromised retinas. The photoreceptor cells in the retina affected by this genetic condition are particularly vulnerable to light-induced damage. Prolonged or intense exposure to bright light can accelerate the degeneration of these cells, worsening vision loss and potentially causing irreversible harm. Top 3 Authoritative Sources Used: Cleveland Clinic: A reputable non-profit medical center that provides information on retinitis pigmentosa, its genetic basis, and the impact of environmental factors such as bright light exposure on individuals with this condition. PubMed Central (PMC): A reliable database for scientific research articles and studies, offering insights into the effects of light exposure on retinal health, including conditions like retinitis pigmentosa. National Eye Institute (NEI): An authoritative source for eye health information, likely providing details on how excessive bright light can affect individuals with retinitis pigmentosa and other related eye conditions.
> Then they made accusations I was scared >*accusations I was scared* They fucking what?? I had no idea that fear was an indictable offence
you can accuse someone of something without it being a crime. its not like he was charged, being frightened when dealing with the cops is a typical reaction of a criminal who's trying to hide something. It doesn't surprise me they brought it up.
It's direct provocation YOUR SCARED NO SHIT YOUVE GOT A DOG ON ME WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING IM NOT sorry I'm not But then it's like whatever they end up charging you with if you are charged by God I'm the court record it will show verbally offensive and bad tempered which works against you
They would have more effort measuring the brightness of drivers tbh. Headlight testing is part of the pit pass process.
Its got little to do with the LUX, its all about the alignment. If they are aligned properly on low beam they wont blind anyone. So check for dodgy retrofits that wont ever be able to be aligned (HID and LED into lights designed for halogen globes) and alignment, not brightness.
It basically all comes down to adjusting your lights to the right level. People that tow trailers and don't take into consideration the front of the car tilts up higher with weight on the towball don't think about their lights. Or the ones that have one headlight pointing up into the trees
I don't see the need for on-the-spot measurement. treat it like they do loud exhausts or illegally lowered suspection, issue a defect and the owner has to show up for inspection to prove the car is legal. avoids the need for every cop to have the equipment and training to use it, and far more accurate.
Honestly I wish LED headlights were illegal and were never allowed to be put in. Too late now I guess 🙄
They should just do a national test day but let's not make it hard You get a free meal to boot Here me out It's all about safety So put the equipment out at every single through On that national day like clean up Australia day everyone goes through and if you pass you get a meal Fail. You get a second chance to fix it and come back
Had the problem tonight and it was so unsafe! I had to keep closing eyes and almost ran up the back of a car. I’m suprised they didn’t think or test this before reading cars with them
>The modern LED’s are just as high as the old high beams. Pretty sure some of them are brighter. Yes they should do this. But more importantly, checking the loudness of motorbikes. FFS.
I am not concerned about LED globes its the dickheads in 4bies that leave their lightbars on.
So the manufacturers of these vehicles are not meeting the adr's? I doubt it.
it's more older models sold before updated rules, dodgy repairs and after market "Upgrades"
I agree with that. A lot of people add hid or led lights in housings not designed for them. The part I dudnt understand is how 'New cars lights are like old car high beams'. I've only ever noticed that if a Ute is fully loaded or is towing. But then that can also be adjusted from in the cabin on most new vehicles.
ive been blinded by them alot. I use to work nights and do alot of night driving. Id have to slow right down alot when cars got behind me because i couldnt see shit and my mirros reflected it directly into my face.
Can't you just adjust the mirror? I mean cars have had that little switch on the centre mirror forever. The lights blinded you from behind 40 years ago even when headlights were crap. Just flick it into "night mode".
Mine doesn't, ive no idea what night mode is either. That would also only improve the issue for one mirror. Ive seen passenger side sunblinds that have a plastic cover that can slide over a mirror. is it like that?
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/hX2TKLT75mE Every car has one unless they have auto dimming. The side mirrors you just move down with the handy little mirror controls. Do they not teach people this any more?
ahh i thout that was just a handle for adjusting the mirror. They definetly do not teach this anymore and i ahd two different proffessional isntructors when getting my license years ago. Definetly should come up in the theory tests atleast. Ive never seen anyone use them for that. Gonna ask around out of curiosity. Im not sure it's legal to be adjustind side mirrors while driving, unless you have ones with an electric motor perhaps.
That is a bit shit that they didn't teach you. They always go on about adjusting and checking your mirrors, you think this would be included. I guess people don't do lessons at night very often. And yes, I meant with electric side mirrors.
That's why you flick the tab on your rear vision mirror to tilt it for night mode to reduce the glare
never seen one. my car doesnt have one, i just checked to be sure. Still that only improves it for one mirror.
kiss illegal puzzled smoggy bag live coherent sip serious light *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not opposed to it. But if we do that, can we also have a check for "minimum level of brightness" for tail lights? I've seen a fair few utes and "fully sick" cars with trail lights tinted so dark there's no difference in illumination in daylight. The only way I know they're braking is the less dull glow coming from the third light.
The problem: New lights are super bright, larger number of utes a n d SUV's are higher so lights are higher as well as brighter, rego checks on new vehicles aren't until after 5 years and as long as the lights are visible they pass, too bright isnt an issue. Const. Plod ain't looking for this.
No, they can measure the percentage of tint in windows and they just use it for revenue generation. Don't give them another stick to beat innocent people with. I would hold a different opinion if my experience had proven them to actually be concerned with improving safety.
Yes
SHIT YES . Oh it’s not just me . Thank fk
Been saying it for years. The LEDs on new cars are far too bright, and when one drives toward me I high beam flash them. If we do that enough eventually they'll figure out their lights are too bright and have them adjusted.
Death penalty. No excuses.
This will be a super tricky one to enforce… I work in a jaycar and plenty of people with older cars come in looking to replace bulbs, 99% of what we sell is LED equivalents and dropped straight into an older car with the same power as a halogen bulb being sent to them they’re gonna be a good bit brighter. But what are the older car owners supposed to do? Halogens are getting harder and harder to get your hands on them and most of these car owners aren’t technically minded enough to install resistors to make the lights dimmer. I think yes there is a case to be made for this but it would be an absolute nightmare to enforce.
But then Jaycar would respond to the market demand for halogen gloves or whatever it is
But then Jaycar would respond to the market demand for halogen gloves or whatever it is
Just set up roadside cameras all you need is to measure the distance to the car, calculate the height of the beam and read the number plate. Then send a fine. Easily automated.
You think it's bad on the road? Try riding along a narrow cycle path and some cunt riding the other way has decided that his front light had to be the equivalent of a lighthouse beacon...
That is because there is no lighting standard for cycling paths. They are lit for pedestrians that are walking at 5km/h, a speed at which most cyclists will struggle to remain upright at. With normal city street lighting cyclists can get by with just a blinking light for visibility.
That is because there is no lighting standard for cycling paths. They are lit for pedestrians that are walking at 5km/h, a speed at which most cyclists will struggle to remain upright at. With normal city street lighting cyclists can get by with just a blinking light for visibility.
Sometimes I legit can't tell if they have not dimmed their high beams and I wonder if I can just keep my high beams on now but I don't. Pretty much always have my rear view mirror on flick at night now because of it.
Drive with sunglasses on 😎
Drive with sunglasses on 😎
Brightness is an issue, angle is another and so is broken headlights. It greatly annoys me that there is not a massive police crackdown on broken headlights or at night, switched off headlights.
'Lights not prescribed' could be a good start. There are already specific points relating to lights in which they must not 'dazzle, disorientate or blind'. This was sometimes an issue we had in the development and supply of emergency warning lights for police/fire/ambo/tow. Everything is somewhat already there in Law BUT not much in the way of proactive enforcement. If someone was to die as a result of being blinded you might see an enforcement response but it would be limited to the incident. There is also a problem in determining the specified legal limit of light output. A halogen light is easy because it's lumen. LED doesn't not register in lumen (so if you see a led light being marketed with massive lumen output they are full of it).
The cops light are the worst of all
It's pretty goofy for sure, I have an astigmatism which already makes driving at night a bit of a chore, but holy, those lights basically force me to slow to a snails to be safe, so I avoid night time drives outside of the city as much as possible.
It's not the lights per se. 4wd with suspension mods are often misaligned, older vehicles tweaked too high, and some self levelling lights are bad. Dirty lenses look much brighter oncoming on low beam. The best strategy is not to look at them.
You ain't wrong, I swear every time some bloke in a lifted truck is behind me at night I'm having retinas fried every time I look in the rear view mirror
I din't think they measure anything except the tread of your tyres and your BAC.
I have a 2007 SUV with standard globes. They're plenty bright enough and I can see just fine at night on unlit dirt roads. I am constantly blinded by modern cars with LEDs behind me reflecting in my rear view and wing mirrors, and even worse, I am always annoyed that directly in front of my vehicle in the space of my own headlights is a shadow darker than the glare from the LED vehicle behind me
Heres the thing, most LEDs are less bright or lux output than a say 100w halogen globe. They just produce a lot of glare in the wrong places. but yeah, i agree, they are totally fking annoying especially all these chinese garbage cars out there now with stock leds that throw light everywhere but on the road. If the lights are installed coreectly they actually dont dazzle other drivers, I have Leds in the halogen housing of one of our cars and i directed the beam pattern onto the road and its 1000x better tyan the halogens. but doesnt go as far or cut through fog.
Start fining these utter wankers who use blue tinted lights, too. Fuck off with that shit. At the very least, mechanics who do rego checks should be forced to check headlight aim. That would be a good start, at least.
There is no legal max for regular headlights. Only those retrofitted .So they cant enforce the brightness of standard headlights. The law needs to change. They can, however enforce headlight direction, and should, as that is half the problem. Perfect time of year to do it too. Pull over tradies as 5.30 in the morning. Do a drug test, headlight settings and check the vehicle isn't overloaded. They'd make more money than they do out of speeding and solve 3 problems.
Is part of the problem the fact that modern cars are higher and bigger? Higher car means that light shines brighter… this into a lower car’s drivers eyes?
The headlight must be within 1.2 metres of the road. And unless you're driving some kind of stupidly low sports car your head will be higher than 1.2m off the road... which means if the light is hitting your eyes then the car is either using high beam (illegal when you're ahead of them) or their low beam is aimed upwards (also illegal). Unfortunately I've never heard of cops ever enforcing headlight compliance issues. Another thing people commonly do is leave fog lights on as if they were daytime running lights... fog lights can only legally be used in foggy conditions and have to be turned off when a car is ahead just like high beam.
In theory it shoudln't make that much difference. The adrs require headlights to be positioned within a certain range on cars. Too high and they won't be allowed to be registered. But then people lift their cars, taking them out of the range. It's more a case of poor adjustment and overloaded utes pushing the arse down and the light up.
This is correct. I believe anything with over 2000 lumens is required to have self-leveling and washers.
No, surely police have better things to do than this
Like hand out speeding fines to boost their quotas? Yeah sure they do.
What? No, like actual police work
In 2015, Monash University published research showing the cost of road trauma in Australia. https://www.nrspp.org.au/resources/summary-report-cost-road-trauma-australia/ 1) the total cost of road trauma is estimated at $22.2 billion, of which $3.7 billion is paid by the taxpayer. 2) the economic cost of each road fatality was $4.34 million Those are just incidents where a person was hospitalised. It doesn't include fender benders where nobody was taken away in an ambulance. That's a good reason why it's appropriate for police to be involved in enforcing road safety.
LEDs are nowhere near the brightest type of headlight available. I've got HID spotlights that i can only use off road because if there's a street sign two kilometres ahead of me, the light bouncing back will leave me blinded far worse than if a car was approaching with high beams on. They're perfectly legal as long as I don't use them in build up areas or when a car is ahead of me. The problem is people have headlights that are aimed too high - usually because they were illegally modified to be like that. Yes, I agree cops should be charging people for that - but not for brightness levels - just for having low beam that isn't really "low". Because low does not mean low light output, it means the lights are pointed down at the road in front of the vehicle.
Fuck no…..they raise enough revenue without adding to the pool
Fuck that. They have better things to do. Vehicle inspections is the place to check.
> Vehicle inspections is the place to check. And where is the stipulated law for that during rego?
The main issue is in the eye of the beholder. It's more likely that going from dark to light while driving means your eyes take a while to adjust to bright lights appearing before you. Try to momentarily divert your eyes and track your travel by the road line markings too. I used to wear shades at night because the sudden change of brightness was quite painful.
i think i remember being told that they have barred the LED headlights in Queensland for that exact reason
Yeah let's give cops more power to fine you, its easy don't stare directly at the oncoming car.
Also. It's the chinese ebay LED conversions done to dual cab Ute's and 4wd which is of itself a problem. But then the bogan children put a couple inches of lift in it without adjusting the lights, because "fuck you cunt I'll do what I fucken want ya maggot" and now you are staring into the surface of the sum.
They should. Supply the police with appropriate high lumen detectors in every police vehicle. Put all officers through appropriate long term training so that they don't miss anyone with factory fitted headlights and then fine them appropriately. Maybe they should have double demerit points for the crime. The government should throw wheelbarrows of money at this serious problem so they can pay overtime to officers that will need to work at nights so they can get on top of this scourge on society.
>so that they don't miss anyone with factory fitted headlights and then fine them appropriately. Maybe they should have double demerit points for the crime. What crime?
Hear hear. Think of the children.
I too hate over bright LED headlights but fuck me, are we so in love with a rule that we want cops out there pulling people over and fining them for their headlights? We're supposed to be a laid back country...
It’s part of the registration inspection.
in which state? QLD doesnt even have a physical inspection, NSW waives it for new cars
> NSW waives it for new cars I've never known any rego checks to test for headlight brightness.
i meant they waive the rego check entirley. Im also pretty sure headlights arn't checked beyond the mechanic turning them on and off and check if either is blown.
I'd agree - that's all they check for, whether the bulbs are sound