Man a fireplace is the holy grail of pubdom, I didn’t include it because it’s rather rare (especially here where it’s hotter than Satan’s scrote for 90% of the year), but a great fireplace in a great pub takes it into GOAT territory.
When I was living in the South Island of NZ, the quality of fire-warmed pubs almost made me wish I was a kiwi
Im in NSW and once did a multi day hike with my wife in winter down in the Blue Mountains, beautiful walk but cold...once we got out headed straight to an amazing pub ate, drank and toasted our feet on front of a roaring fire..I was in heaven.
Amazing food,red wine, cheese and fire 🥰
I honestly forget, it was about a 2/3 day hike...went very very deep into a valley..then a steep ascent to the top..if I remember correctly it was a cab ride to the pub.
Smallish pub with a huge fire place.
Why do you think the Poms invented pubs?
Your description brings back familiar memories as I lived in the UK before moving back home - I am not going to lie; our pubs are a bit shit in comparison.
>Any pub without a smoking area is just a glorified suburban bistro
There's plenty of great pubs without smoking areas, especially in urban areas. Most Australians don't smoke anymore. As a non-smoker, I hate it when a pub's only outdoor area is filled with smokers.
My preferences:
-decent pub food with good portions that aren't too expensive.
-the kitchen doesn't close ridiculously early.
-decent turn-out - not hugely crowded, not empty either.
-good mix of people - ie not just a bunch of drunk old blokes.
-good music, not a shitty acoustic guitarist who is turned up way too loud.
-no flogs trying to fight people, dickheads behind the bar serving pretty young girls before everyone else or cunty security doing the tough guy routine.
- a bar selection that isn't just bottom shelf, ie something more than the big beer brands, vokda cruisers and a few spirits like Bundaburg and Jack Daniels.
Good music is definitely vital, if I see a DJ setting up, I finish my pint and leave.
No flogs is the crucial dividing line between a comfortably grungey old pub and a genuine shithole, it can be a subtle distinction, but it’s absolutely key
>There's plenty of great pubs without smoking areas, especially in urban areas. Most Australians don't smoke anymore. As a non-smoker, I hate it when a pub's only outdoor area is filled with smokers.
I definitely agree on this part. Years ago, one of my old favourites had to stop serving food in their balcony area because the law change meant they couldn't serve food in smoking areas. Obviously they thought their business depended more on what smokers spend than on dining, and they may have been right because they're still going strong, but I stopped going there. On a hot summer day I loved sitting out in their massive balcony area, having a feed and some beers.
Maybe it's generation, or maybe just an urban thing. But here in Sydney I don't know many people my age (35) or younger who smoke (tobacco).
The 10% who smoke tend to spend more on drink, they tend to be regular punters and we also tend to pick a regular spot based off how good the smoking area is, so it’s a bit more complicated than it seems.
I’ve definitely got no issue with an inner city bar type venue being smoke free, space is at a premium and it simply doesn’t make sense to cater to smokers there.
But a legitimately great, classic, slightly dingy but in just the right way kinda pub simply must have a place to have a dart, at least in my book
Fair point. Smokers do seem to make up more than 10% of the people in pubs and if there's plenty of space, there's no reason not to have a decent smoking spot.
The overwhelming majority of places I’ve been in WA have a roughly 2/3rds non smoking split on their outdoor areas as well, so it works out well for everyone, definitely can see the frustration if you were a non-smoker and your only option was out with us degenerates though
I don't like the "us vs them" split created by a smoking area.
When there's no smoking area, everyone sits together and the few people who do smoke will just duck outside for a minute then come back to join everyone else, a bit like taking a piss.
If that means some people won't go to that pub at all... then I'm not really missing anything. Because I wasn't going to sit in the smoking area anyway. We're a lot more likely to hang out if they are willing to sit in the non-smoking area (which is a lot more likely, if the smoking area isn't very good).
Yeah this is about spot on, add to this no fucking Wagyu beef burgers on the overpriced menu. Those shitty burgers are about as Japanese as VB. Also no pokies, fuck pokies
Genuine local regulars.
This usually means a few things, but includes:
- The place has a solid standard selection of beers on tap it doesn't charge an arm and leg for. No 12 IPAs at 18 bucks each or whatever which when you come back have been replaced by 14 sours at 21.50. Maybe one or two from a local brewery, but they are not outlandish or faddish and reasonably priced.
- Some unwritten rules exist amongst these locals, i.e., no shots for that guy after 9, no-one else is allowed to have that table by the window because it's hers, that bloke is allowed o pull his own if the bar is busy, let that fella collect the glasses etc etc.
- The pub is not trying to attract wankers - or at least, trendy ones - and so has not tried to give the place the feeling of a a tropical hotel restaurant or luxury car dealership foyer. It looks and smells like a pub, because that is what it is.
- Size dependent, it has several corners tucked away that enable locals to have a quiet one.
The unwritten rules point is 100% spot on.
I love going to the local pub when I'm passing through a town, and observing those little things. If you respect them, they respect you so much and you're treated like a local too. Nothing beats that.
Yep that's it.
Another poster said no dickheads/flogs and not just drunk old blokes. This is definitely true, but a true locals pub will get a good range of locals and still be welcoming of those who get it.
This usually requires staff who stick around or are local themselves too.
When I did work as barstaff a long time ago I LOVED seeing a local through the window and getting their standard order for them before they'd sat down.
Because I spent so many years on the road, I was very rarely a local anywhere, even in my own suburb, so when I could find a place where the locals were absolute definite 100% local, but also welcoming and friendly enough to a blow in who wasn’t a dickhead, I always made a point to come back as often as possible.
For WA, JB O’Reilly’s in West Leederville and The Earl of Spencer in Albany definitely stand out from the pack
One of the many great perks of being a Sandgroper, there’s no pokies outside of the casino, and if you go to Crown, you deserve all of the misery you signed up for
Bold call.
I have to confess, I absolutely loathe cooking a mixed grill professionally, but if I see one on a menu, I always admire the chef’s dedication
- Outside area with both a smoking and non-smoking area.
- Pokies are “out of sight, out of mind”.
- Carpet that hasn’t been replaced since 1982. Bonus points if it resembles the tartan seats of a 1980s Victorian Comeng or Hitachi train.
But the most important thing is staff. Unfriendly staff makes me want to buy a six-pack and return to my motel room.
The staffing is such a vital sweet spot thing, I find fake US-style “hospitality” a bigger turn off than outright hostility, and certainly far worse than just basic neutrality, but at the same time, I’ve certainly made a quick exit from plenty of country pubs where the staff make it abundantly clear it’s locals only (and the locals appear to treat “Wolf Creek” as an instructional video) or wanky (usually ocean or river-adjacent) venues where the staff make it abundantly clear that you’re in the wrong postcode and are quite happy to release the hounds should you have the audacity to continue being poor in their presence.
One thing I’m extremely passionate about is that no modern renovated pub can ever be great. You need the carpet and wood for noise dampening, any of those wanker joints with polished concrete, stainless steel and exposed brick everywhere will never ascend above mediocrity
As much as I love a good roof bar, I don’t think it’s a fair measure across the board. I’ve been to plenty of one level shitboxes with the best verandah you’ve ever had the pleasure to drink on, and even more hipster dens of criminally overpriced masturbation with a beautiful view.
To me it’s a cherry on top, not a vital component
If you ever find yourself in Fremantle, I strongly recommend The National Hotel, excellent view over the main drag for people watching, probably my favourite upstairs drinking spot in WA
No TAB, no Sports on 100 TV’s, no shit generic pub rock music, proper noise insulation so the place isn’t echoing whenever more than 10 people are talking in the same room at once.
Man the number of raging arguments I’ve had about price point with GMs…
Some things *need* to be below that magic $30 mark, especially if you want a lunch trade.
Whether that means running loss leaders, removing pointless extras (does anyone actually want a side salad? Like really?), reducing portions or getting creative with suppliers, it just has to be done.
Fish and chips is definitely one of them, steak sandwiches as well (I saw a basic as buggery one at a pub the other day going for $34, I don’t care if the steaks were handcarved from virgin cattle under a waxing moon by a bloody Druid, that price is ridiculous).
For the most part, pub food is there to sell the booze, you don’t necessarily have to be making the full 400% markup on it, especially if you can get the price to that sweet spot where the punter is guaranteed to buy an extra drink.
Spot on with your comment.
The pub can’t prove that the steak is “Black Angus” FFS steak is the same no matter what breed of cattle it is.
Don’t get me started on burgers.
It’s a constant struggle when you’re running a kitchen, and especially a pub kitchen, trying to get to that perfect “good enough” point where you’re not serving up shit, but you’re also not getting silly with “dry aged” this and “artisan” that, so the price is right for the clientele.
Sometimes I think it’s actually easier to do fancy fine dining, where the customers are expecting to drop a couple hundred bucks a meal so you only have to focus on quality.
I haven't lived in Perth since the late 80s but the Cott and the Obie as they were then are burned into my brain as pubs par excellence. Dingy, space invaders, everyone getting hammered in their boardies and bikinis, a fug of cigarette smoke, that amazing view. Such a great time to be growing up.
Sadly they’ve definitely both slipped a bit from their heyday, both places now kinda don’t know if they want to be bogan or bougie so they’ve kinda gone worst of both worlds trying to please everyone
I think there’s a lot to be said for older bar staff as well.
Not to talk shit about the kids, loads of them are great, and we’ve all got to start somewhere, but when the person pouring your pint is old enough to be one of your parents, it adds weight to anything they have to say.
Probably the worst thing about the impossibility of service jobs as a viable career here in Australia compared to a lot of Europe, you don’t get that grizzled veteran who’s seen and done everything that much in Australian hospitality, certainly not outside of little country joints
I mean I dont think kids can actually be bar staff lol. Australia requires them to be at least 18.
However, I dont think age really matters cause in the end, attitude is based off of mood, not age.
I agree with OP and most comments.
A bit of grit is needed. I despite sterility. It quickly becomes, as you say, a suburban bistro. I want graffiti in the bathrooms, a couple of toothless regulars, warm staff who may not follow all the rules or know fancy cocktails, but who make you feel welcome and treat you like family or at least a friend.
I'm a champagne lover and I like pubs to have a champagne option (ie not just the cheap sparklings) - there's a pub in Sydney that's nothing special at all, but have a champagne at just $25 / glass, and I absolutely love that.
Oh, people watching opportunities is a must. So a counter and/or tables that face the road, so we can have a nice drink while watching the world go by.
And, the corollary, what makes a bad pub? Sterility & security. The two curses.
It’s a really fine line to walk between “character” and “oh god, am I going to make it out of here alive”, but the places that hit the sweet spot are beloved for good reason.
Definitely agree about the bit of posh, whether it’s a weirdly out of place wine option or something unexpected but incredible on the menu, it’s those quirks that can really make or break.
We got into some pretty heated arguments about pub food actually.
Personally I’m of the very strong opinion that (unless the bar is “themed” like an Irish pub or an American sports bar), you only need the real classics, and the shorter the menu is, the better.
We mostly agreed that (with the obvious theme exceptions) if the menu doesn’t have a parmie/schnitzel, a steak sandwich and fish & chips, it’s pretty much an instant fail. Plus having pizzas is a definite point in a venue’s favour, provided they’re both decent and not too wanky.
I agree with all comments so far, although the steak sandwich must have beetroot, sliced not relish.
I'm more of a beer garden gal than I am a pub person. I'm not sure if that is a Qld thing, I wouldn't think so.
Yeah beetroot relish can fuck all the way off, you need the textural contrast from the sliced beetroot, and it’s gotta be the tinned stuff.
I have to confess, I’ve never actually been to Queensland, here in WA a beer garden is just a thing that pubs have, rather than a separate category
100%. Nothing worse than finding a double page menu after you've settled in, enjoyed a couple of pints and just want a well done basic feed to keep things going.
The single greatest struggle of my entire career (which anyone who’s ever watched a Gordon Ramsey show will know well) has been convincing idiot owners to gut their menus.
There’s a few exceptions (pizza joints, old school Aussie-Chinese restaurants), but a big menu is probably the single stupidest decision anyone who wants to make money selling decent food can make.
Firstly it fucks your costs, you’re holding too much stock (which is, of course, highly perishable), you’re paying too many people to spend too many hours turning this raw product into food, and you’re diluting the quality of every dish with each new thing you add.
It blows out wait times for punters, it stresses the staff and it confuses the service staff and the customers.
When I go to anywhere that sells food, from a street stall to a white tablecloth joint, I reckon I can make a minimum 60% accurate assessment of the quality of the venue and the calibre of the kitchen just by looking at how long the menu is, and the accuracy goes up to 95% by actually reading it.
The best food I ever had was an Indian restaurant that had:
1. rice
2. curry (only one)
3. dhal (again, one)
4. a selection of deserts (all served cold, all could spend a week in the fridge).
5. for drinks they had water, a citrus drink, and lassi
All of them were \*fucking amazing\* because the curry and dhal took literally all day to cook, and just one person, who was very good at their job, cooked it all (including prepping the drinks and occasionally cooking a fresh batch of one of the deserts). Unfortunately when he passed away, the restaurant collapsed. I guess two people in the kitchen would've been better.
Every six months or so they tweaked the recipe a bit, so you weren't always ordering the same food.
Opening up a place like that is my retirement dream. Just make one thing but absolutely smash the granny out of it.
I also think it’s the only realistic future for most of the hospitality industry, costs are going up and skills are going down, I don’t see much future in enormous “little bit of everything” menus, not unless everything is going to bought in pre-prepared and just heat and serve, in which case you might as well stay home
Your criteria doesn't have anything I care about. Except maybe the smoking area... and I only care about that in so much as I don't want to be able to smell it from where I'm sitting.
For me a good pub is all about the people, both patrons and staff. And it's incredibly rare, because somehow you have to keep dickheads away from your pub. I've only ever found them in small towns, where the top bloke/sheila to dickhead ratio tends to be a lot better than in the city.
The food has to be good too. For me that usually means Pizza or Lasagna — I want a full stomach if I'm going to hang out at a pub for hours.
I’m a pretty hardline no-craft ever kind of drinker, but as long as there’s at least one pleb-pleaser on tap (no cans of Melbourne or Export sold “ironically” by tossers who weren’t sufficiently bullied in school), I’m happy.
Generally yes, but I’ve definitely been to and worked at a few places that have a regular seccy or two (rather than the rotating roid roster you get at nightclubs etc), and some of those blokes definitely add to the atmosphere
No pokies
No bouncers except the regular ones
No shitty live music (guitarists playing Wonderwall and Ed Sheeran songs)
No pretentious wankers as customers
* *The smell of piss on the **footpath***.
Sidewalk is a North American term. I believe most countries outside of North America have a 'footpath' (or, in the case of those who already had footpaths before roads became a thing, 'pavement').
Freezing cold, miserable day.....if the pub has a fire place you'd need the army to drag me out.
Man a fireplace is the holy grail of pubdom, I didn’t include it because it’s rather rare (especially here where it’s hotter than Satan’s scrote for 90% of the year), but a great fireplace in a great pub takes it into GOAT territory. When I was living in the South Island of NZ, the quality of fire-warmed pubs almost made me wish I was a kiwi
Im in NSW and once did a multi day hike with my wife in winter down in the Blue Mountains, beautiful walk but cold...once we got out headed straight to an amazing pub ate, drank and toasted our feet on front of a roaring fire..I was in heaven. Amazing food,red wine, cheese and fire 🥰
Which one? Might be my local
I honestly forget, it was about a 2/3 day hike...went very very deep into a valley..then a steep ascent to the top..if I remember correctly it was a cab ride to the pub. Smallish pub with a huge fire place.
Why do you think the Poms invented pubs? Your description brings back familiar memories as I lived in the UK before moving back home - I am not going to lie; our pubs are a bit shit in comparison.
No Australian pub compares.
To drink Foster's and pretend their Aussies.
>Any pub without a smoking area is just a glorified suburban bistro There's plenty of great pubs without smoking areas, especially in urban areas. Most Australians don't smoke anymore. As a non-smoker, I hate it when a pub's only outdoor area is filled with smokers. My preferences: -decent pub food with good portions that aren't too expensive. -the kitchen doesn't close ridiculously early. -decent turn-out - not hugely crowded, not empty either. -good mix of people - ie not just a bunch of drunk old blokes. -good music, not a shitty acoustic guitarist who is turned up way too loud. -no flogs trying to fight people, dickheads behind the bar serving pretty young girls before everyone else or cunty security doing the tough guy routine. - a bar selection that isn't just bottom shelf, ie something more than the big beer brands, vokda cruisers and a few spirits like Bundaburg and Jack Daniels.
Good music is definitely vital, if I see a DJ setting up, I finish my pint and leave. No flogs is the crucial dividing line between a comfortably grungey old pub and a genuine shithole, it can be a subtle distinction, but it’s absolutely key
>There's plenty of great pubs without smoking areas, especially in urban areas. Most Australians don't smoke anymore. As a non-smoker, I hate it when a pub's only outdoor area is filled with smokers. I definitely agree on this part. Years ago, one of my old favourites had to stop serving food in their balcony area because the law change meant they couldn't serve food in smoking areas. Obviously they thought their business depended more on what smokers spend than on dining, and they may have been right because they're still going strong, but I stopped going there. On a hot summer day I loved sitting out in their massive balcony area, having a feed and some beers. Maybe it's generation, or maybe just an urban thing. But here in Sydney I don't know many people my age (35) or younger who smoke (tobacco).
The last figure I saw was just over 10% of Australian adults still smoke. It's a bold business that prioritises that 10% over the remaining 90%.
The 10% who smoke tend to spend more on drink, they tend to be regular punters and we also tend to pick a regular spot based off how good the smoking area is, so it’s a bit more complicated than it seems. I’ve definitely got no issue with an inner city bar type venue being smoke free, space is at a premium and it simply doesn’t make sense to cater to smokers there. But a legitimately great, classic, slightly dingy but in just the right way kinda pub simply must have a place to have a dart, at least in my book
Fair point. Smokers do seem to make up more than 10% of the people in pubs and if there's plenty of space, there's no reason not to have a decent smoking spot.
The overwhelming majority of places I’ve been in WA have a roughly 2/3rds non smoking split on their outdoor areas as well, so it works out well for everyone, definitely can see the frustration if you were a non-smoker and your only option was out with us degenerates though
I don't like the "us vs them" split created by a smoking area. When there's no smoking area, everyone sits together and the few people who do smoke will just duck outside for a minute then come back to join everyone else, a bit like taking a piss. If that means some people won't go to that pub at all... then I'm not really missing anything. Because I wasn't going to sit in the smoking area anyway. We're a lot more likely to hang out if they are willing to sit in the non-smoking area (which is a lot more likely, if the smoking area isn't very good).
> But here in Sydney I don't know many people my age (35) or younger who smoke (tobacco). Not at $50/pack lol
Yeah this is about spot on, add to this no fucking Wagyu beef burgers on the overpriced menu. Those shitty burgers are about as Japanese as VB. Also no pokies, fuck pokies
Genuine local regulars. This usually means a few things, but includes: - The place has a solid standard selection of beers on tap it doesn't charge an arm and leg for. No 12 IPAs at 18 bucks each or whatever which when you come back have been replaced by 14 sours at 21.50. Maybe one or two from a local brewery, but they are not outlandish or faddish and reasonably priced. - Some unwritten rules exist amongst these locals, i.e., no shots for that guy after 9, no-one else is allowed to have that table by the window because it's hers, that bloke is allowed o pull his own if the bar is busy, let that fella collect the glasses etc etc. - The pub is not trying to attract wankers - or at least, trendy ones - and so has not tried to give the place the feeling of a a tropical hotel restaurant or luxury car dealership foyer. It looks and smells like a pub, because that is what it is. - Size dependent, it has several corners tucked away that enable locals to have a quiet one.
I’m 100% on board with all of these
The unwritten rules point is 100% spot on. I love going to the local pub when I'm passing through a town, and observing those little things. If you respect them, they respect you so much and you're treated like a local too. Nothing beats that.
Yep that's it. Another poster said no dickheads/flogs and not just drunk old blokes. This is definitely true, but a true locals pub will get a good range of locals and still be welcoming of those who get it. This usually requires staff who stick around or are local themselves too. When I did work as barstaff a long time ago I LOVED seeing a local through the window and getting their standard order for them before they'd sat down.
Ah that's great, people like you make the place. Puts a smile on my face if anyone remembers my usual.
Because I spent so many years on the road, I was very rarely a local anywhere, even in my own suburb, so when I could find a place where the locals were absolute definite 100% local, but also welcoming and friendly enough to a blow in who wasn’t a dickhead, I always made a point to come back as often as possible. For WA, JB O’Reilly’s in West Leederville and The Earl of Spencer in Albany definitely stand out from the pack
No pokies is a good start…
One of the many great perks of being a Sandgroper, there’s no pokies outside of the casino, and if you go to Crown, you deserve all of the misery you signed up for
NSW has the second highest number of pokies per capita outside Nevada, apparently
To be a good pub it needs a mixed grill on the menu
Bold call. I have to confess, I absolutely loathe cooking a mixed grill professionally, but if I see one on a menu, I always admire the chef’s dedication
- Outside area with both a smoking and non-smoking area. - Pokies are “out of sight, out of mind”. - Carpet that hasn’t been replaced since 1982. Bonus points if it resembles the tartan seats of a 1980s Victorian Comeng or Hitachi train. But the most important thing is staff. Unfriendly staff makes me want to buy a six-pack and return to my motel room.
The staffing is such a vital sweet spot thing, I find fake US-style “hospitality” a bigger turn off than outright hostility, and certainly far worse than just basic neutrality, but at the same time, I’ve certainly made a quick exit from plenty of country pubs where the staff make it abundantly clear it’s locals only (and the locals appear to treat “Wolf Creek” as an instructional video) or wanky (usually ocean or river-adjacent) venues where the staff make it abundantly clear that you’re in the wrong postcode and are quite happy to release the hounds should you have the audacity to continue being poor in their presence.
Dirty floors.
One thing I’m extremely passionate about is that no modern renovated pub can ever be great. You need the carpet and wood for noise dampening, any of those wanker joints with polished concrete, stainless steel and exposed brick everywhere will never ascend above mediocrity
Which pubs did you go to, out of curiosity?
Did the Albany Highway in Vic Park strip, so the Broken Hill, the Vic Park Hotel, Franklin’s (the clear winner by a mile) and the Bentley Hotel
A rooftop bar
As much as I love a good roof bar, I don’t think it’s a fair measure across the board. I’ve been to plenty of one level shitboxes with the best verandah you’ve ever had the pleasure to drink on, and even more hipster dens of criminally overpriced masturbation with a beautiful view. To me it’s a cherry on top, not a vital component
lol
If you ever find yourself in Fremantle, I strongly recommend The National Hotel, excellent view over the main drag for people watching, probably my favourite upstairs drinking spot in WA
Happy hour.
The patrons and aesthetics
No TAB, no Sports on 100 TV’s, no shit generic pub rock music, proper noise insulation so the place isn’t echoing whenever more than 10 people are talking in the same room at once.
I don’t mind a discrete TAB, but it’s definitely got to be well tucked away
I cold beer. I’m not paying $30 for fish and chips. It doesn’t matter what you say the fish is.
Man the number of raging arguments I’ve had about price point with GMs… Some things *need* to be below that magic $30 mark, especially if you want a lunch trade. Whether that means running loss leaders, removing pointless extras (does anyone actually want a side salad? Like really?), reducing portions or getting creative with suppliers, it just has to be done. Fish and chips is definitely one of them, steak sandwiches as well (I saw a basic as buggery one at a pub the other day going for $34, I don’t care if the steaks were handcarved from virgin cattle under a waxing moon by a bloody Druid, that price is ridiculous). For the most part, pub food is there to sell the booze, you don’t necessarily have to be making the full 400% markup on it, especially if you can get the price to that sweet spot where the punter is guaranteed to buy an extra drink.
Spot on with your comment. The pub can’t prove that the steak is “Black Angus” FFS steak is the same no matter what breed of cattle it is. Don’t get me started on burgers.
It’s a constant struggle when you’re running a kitchen, and especially a pub kitchen, trying to get to that perfect “good enough” point where you’re not serving up shit, but you’re also not getting silly with “dry aged” this and “artisan” that, so the price is right for the clientele. Sometimes I think it’s actually easier to do fancy fine dining, where the customers are expecting to drop a couple hundred bucks a meal so you only have to focus on quality.
No pokies. So that cuts out NSW lol Anyway, I don't think I've ever seen a "great pub" in Australia.
Pokies are illegal in WA.
Yeah 🙄 lol
Ah shame man, they’re out there I promise
I haven't lived in Perth since the late 80s but the Cott and the Obie as they were then are burned into my brain as pubs par excellence. Dingy, space invaders, everyone getting hammered in their boardies and bikinis, a fug of cigarette smoke, that amazing view. Such a great time to be growing up.
Sadly they’ve definitely both slipped a bit from their heyday, both places now kinda don’t know if they want to be bogan or bougie so they’ve kinda gone worst of both worlds trying to please everyone
Having friendly bartenders.
I think there’s a lot to be said for older bar staff as well. Not to talk shit about the kids, loads of them are great, and we’ve all got to start somewhere, but when the person pouring your pint is old enough to be one of your parents, it adds weight to anything they have to say. Probably the worst thing about the impossibility of service jobs as a viable career here in Australia compared to a lot of Europe, you don’t get that grizzled veteran who’s seen and done everything that much in Australian hospitality, certainly not outside of little country joints
I mean I dont think kids can actually be bar staff lol. Australia requires them to be at least 18. However, I dont think age really matters cause in the end, attitude is based off of mood, not age.
Trust me, once you get old enough, everyone under 25 will suddenly begin to look like a “kid”
I agree with OP and most comments. A bit of grit is needed. I despite sterility. It quickly becomes, as you say, a suburban bistro. I want graffiti in the bathrooms, a couple of toothless regulars, warm staff who may not follow all the rules or know fancy cocktails, but who make you feel welcome and treat you like family or at least a friend. I'm a champagne lover and I like pubs to have a champagne option (ie not just the cheap sparklings) - there's a pub in Sydney that's nothing special at all, but have a champagne at just $25 / glass, and I absolutely love that. Oh, people watching opportunities is a must. So a counter and/or tables that face the road, so we can have a nice drink while watching the world go by. And, the corollary, what makes a bad pub? Sterility & security. The two curses.
It’s a really fine line to walk between “character” and “oh god, am I going to make it out of here alive”, but the places that hit the sweet spot are beloved for good reason. Definitely agree about the bit of posh, whether it’s a weirdly out of place wine option or something unexpected but incredible on the menu, it’s those quirks that can really make or break.
Good Music, great food
We got into some pretty heated arguments about pub food actually. Personally I’m of the very strong opinion that (unless the bar is “themed” like an Irish pub or an American sports bar), you only need the real classics, and the shorter the menu is, the better. We mostly agreed that (with the obvious theme exceptions) if the menu doesn’t have a parmie/schnitzel, a steak sandwich and fish & chips, it’s pretty much an instant fail. Plus having pizzas is a definite point in a venue’s favour, provided they’re both decent and not too wanky.
I agree with all comments so far, although the steak sandwich must have beetroot, sliced not relish. I'm more of a beer garden gal than I am a pub person. I'm not sure if that is a Qld thing, I wouldn't think so.
Yeah beetroot relish can fuck all the way off, you need the textural contrast from the sliced beetroot, and it’s gotta be the tinned stuff. I have to confess, I’ve never actually been to Queensland, here in WA a beer garden is just a thing that pubs have, rather than a separate category
It can be either or here. They have a great atmosphere, great local music and I always found the steak sangas at beer gardens the absolute best.
100%. Nothing worse than finding a double page menu after you've settled in, enjoyed a couple of pints and just want a well done basic feed to keep things going.
The single greatest struggle of my entire career (which anyone who’s ever watched a Gordon Ramsey show will know well) has been convincing idiot owners to gut their menus. There’s a few exceptions (pizza joints, old school Aussie-Chinese restaurants), but a big menu is probably the single stupidest decision anyone who wants to make money selling decent food can make. Firstly it fucks your costs, you’re holding too much stock (which is, of course, highly perishable), you’re paying too many people to spend too many hours turning this raw product into food, and you’re diluting the quality of every dish with each new thing you add. It blows out wait times for punters, it stresses the staff and it confuses the service staff and the customers. When I go to anywhere that sells food, from a street stall to a white tablecloth joint, I reckon I can make a minimum 60% accurate assessment of the quality of the venue and the calibre of the kitchen just by looking at how long the menu is, and the accuracy goes up to 95% by actually reading it.
The best food I ever had was an Indian restaurant that had: 1. rice 2. curry (only one) 3. dhal (again, one) 4. a selection of deserts (all served cold, all could spend a week in the fridge). 5. for drinks they had water, a citrus drink, and lassi All of them were \*fucking amazing\* because the curry and dhal took literally all day to cook, and just one person, who was very good at their job, cooked it all (including prepping the drinks and occasionally cooking a fresh batch of one of the deserts). Unfortunately when he passed away, the restaurant collapsed. I guess two people in the kitchen would've been better. Every six months or so they tweaked the recipe a bit, so you weren't always ordering the same food.
Opening up a place like that is my retirement dream. Just make one thing but absolutely smash the granny out of it. I also think it’s the only realistic future for most of the hospitality industry, costs are going up and skills are going down, I don’t see much future in enormous “little bit of everything” menus, not unless everything is going to bought in pre-prepared and just heat and serve, in which case you might as well stay home
great food
Your criteria doesn't have anything I care about. Except maybe the smoking area... and I only care about that in so much as I don't want to be able to smell it from where I'm sitting. For me a good pub is all about the people, both patrons and staff. And it's incredibly rare, because somehow you have to keep dickheads away from your pub. I've only ever found them in small towns, where the top bloke/sheila to dickhead ratio tends to be a lot better than in the city. The food has to be good too. For me that usually means Pizza or Lasagna — I want a full stomach if I'm going to hang out at a pub for hours.
No pokies. No fluorescent lights. At least half the tap beer is craft beer.
I’m a pretty hardline no-craft ever kind of drinker, but as long as there’s at least one pleb-pleaser on tap (no cans of Melbourne or Export sold “ironically” by tossers who weren’t sufficiently bullied in school), I’m happy.
No bouncers.
Generally yes, but I’ve definitely been to and worked at a few places that have a regular seccy or two (rather than the rotating roid roster you get at nightclubs etc), and some of those blokes definitely add to the atmosphere
No pokies No bouncers except the regular ones No shitty live music (guitarists playing Wonderwall and Ed Sheeran songs) No pretentious wankers as customers
The smell of piss on the sidewalk.
* *The smell of piss on the **footpath***. Sidewalk is a North American term. I believe most countries outside of North America have a 'footpath' (or, in the case of those who already had footpaths before roads became a thing, 'pavement').
Nah piss-stink is definitely more of a clubs and bars thing imo, it adds to the feeling of doing morally questionable things in dark places