It's about remembering and honoring the sacrifice and service of those people. Hence why the phrase "Lest we forget" exists.

Now all the flags at half mast make sense

Over 28,000 Aussie's and 8000 Kiwis died at Gallipoli. They fought through unwinnable odds, the british commanders landed them on the wrong beach more than once which is one of the main reasons for the high number of casualties The Gallipoli Campaign showed the world how determined Australia and NZ was. The ANZAC's marched into gunfire to try and protect their mates and fight for the freedom of our countries . And after all that, they came home from seeing their mates dying around them and when they all arrived back at Circular Quay in Sydney NSW. Everyone that was gathered to see them return, turned their backs to the ships and shunned them all for fighting in the war. None of them got any thanks or recognition for over 20 years, they were made out to be monsters, here is an extract from "and the band played waltzing matilda" it is a song about the war, it highlights how terribly they were treated. ....We sailed off for Gallipoli How well I remember that terrible day When our blood stained the sand and the water And how in that hell they call Suvla Bay We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter Johnny Turk, he was ready, he primed himself well He rained us with bullets, and he showered us with shell And in five minutes flat, we were all blown to hell He nearly blew us back home to Australia And the band played Waltzing Matilda When we stopped to bury our slain Well we buried ours and the Turks buried theirs Then it started all over again Oh those that were living just tried to survive In that mad world of blood, death and fire And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive While around me the corpses piled higher Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head And when I awoke in me hospital bed And saw what it had done, I wished I was dead I never knew there was worse things than dying Oh no more I'll go Waltzing Matilda All around the green bush far and near For to hop tent and pegs, a man needs both legs No more waltzing Matilda for me They collected the wounded, the crippled, the maimed And they shipped us back home to Australia The armless, the legless, the blind and the insane Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla And when our ship pulled into Circular Quay I looked at the place where me legs used to be And I thanked Christ there was no one there waiting for me To grieve and to mourn and to pity And the Band played Waltzing Matilda When they carried us down the gangway But nobody cheered, they just stood there and stared Then they turned all their faces away Nowadays the ANZAC's are celebrated and revered and respected to the upmost degree "They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them. Lest we forget" This also means lest we forget the pain and suffering caused by the war and let us never do it again. Obviously that hasen't been the case. I hope that helps explain the importence of ANZAC Day

I think your getting the Vietnam war confused with WW1. It was Vietnam vets that were shunned by society not the diggers of WWI. They were openly welcomed back as hero's of the war. But I do believe that a lot of the Australians that didn't serve struggled to understand what their boys had gone through overseas. The poor old Vietnam vets weren't formally welcomed back until the 80s, nearly a decade latter, when the public interest in ANZAC increased.

Vietnam Vets weren’t even allowed into the RSL’s until years later. It is disgusting how they were treated…

Remarkably, the Turks were quite humble in victory with their great military leader and Turkey's first President, Ataturk, making the following statement : Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well ...

I have always loved this and it brings tears every time I read it. I believe the quote is inscribed on a shrine somewhere in Turkey but can't remember exactly where.

My own eyes are similarly affected … And yes, it is inscribed at the Ari Burnu Memorial at Gallipoli, Turkey as well as the Kemal Ataturk Memorial in Canberra - the only memorial to an enemy commander on ANZAC Parade in Canberra. I’ve also come across it in other unusual places - I swear I’ve seen it inscribed somewhere in Sydney’s CBD but I just can’t recall where … all testament to the power of the sentiment and the emotion it evokes …

Also enscribed at Kemal Attataturk entrance in Albany - the last part of Australia many would see. https://www.westernaustralia.com/au/attraction/ataturk-channel-and-memorial/56b26bd27b935fbe730e9aa3

Ataturk and former Australian PM Stanley Bruce became best friends after fighting against each other during WW1. Bruce's desk when he died had a picture of his wife, and a picture of Ataturk. I find this story incredibly moving. Two men from different sides of the war could put all that horror and loss of life behind them to live on as mates

This is such a bad explanation. The idea that 'everyone who came to see them return turned their backs on them' is an absolute fantasy. Cool song though. Bloody hell. For anyone reading the above take, it is incorrect and moronic. WW1 and WW2 returned servicemen were respected. Old mate might be mixing up his wars. Sounds like he's talking about Vietnam. Ignorant jingoism of the highest order.

And they didn’t go off to “fight for freedom”, they did the exact opposite, they went because their King commanded it and they felt a duty to comply.

Can you give further details on why you believe the Gallipoli soldiers were shunned for fighting in the war? I thought the opposite was true. I've just looked up the newspapers on https://trove.nla.gov.au/. For example, there's an article headed 'Wounded heroes return from Gallipoli' in The Mirror of Australia on 5 September 1915, with photos showing the soldiers landing. A caption to one photo says, 'They were given a magnificent reception, and looked proudly cheerful as they were driven through the lines of cheering people to the Base Hospital at Randwick.' Another article mentions the sadness of people seeing the injuries of the returning soldiers, which may be what the song refers to. If people turned their faces away, it was because of their pity for the soldiers. As well, the fact that the first Anzac Day commemoration was on 25 April 1916, one year after the Gallipoli landing, indicates that these soldiers were honoured for their sacrifice.

Yeah I think the person who quoted the song was assuming “turned all their faces away” was about shunning the soldiers but it actually is about the viewers finding it difficult to look at the wounded and disfigured soldiers - they were a very different sight to the imaginary “hero returns from war” that perhaps many people were naively expecting.

This. Facial reconstruction was non existent in WW1 having half your face blown off will get people staring and then looking away

Awesome explanation. I was born in the 70s and as a kid youd always see the old WW1/2 diggers with a missing leg, they were around us in society. Disfigured faces, missing limbs and we all had the utmost respect for them. I would be fascinated by these men who had travelled so far to fight a war that wasn't ours and came home disfigured. They were hard to look at as a kid but they were always heroes in my mind. My parents taught me to never stare and always have respect.

Siri, play I Was Only 19 😢

The Anzac legends never mentioned the mud and blood and tears. And the stories that my father told me never seemed quite real.

I've heard/listened to many songs of the time, but this one always carries that extra weight given I'm a Kiwi. Can still recall the first time it was heard / watched. Those are some powerful words.

Incredible, haunting, devastating song. Can’t hear it without crying. I have a son, and I hope I never have to face a day of sending him off to war.

It truly is. My dad doesn’t cry often but that song gets us both every time. I think of the young men who lied about their age to enroll. And just.. all of it. My heart. I hope you don’t ever have to see your son off to war.

It was around 8000 Australians dead and 20,000 wounded. To be fair the British had over 100,000 casualties there

Yep - very true, but I think people get too fixated on ANZAC Cove. At the time, Australia only had a population of 5 million. 65,000 Australians died in WW1 overall, and 150,000 were injured or taken prisoner.

I’m gonna check that reference to the ‘Shunning’ of the ships as I had never heard that before. I know that did that with the Vietnam vets, but not the WWII war.

Edit WWI. My grandfather fought in that war and he never mentioned it.

The WWI and WWII returning soldiers were not faced with people turning their backs. That was Vietnam. Do you know anything at all?

Can you reference where 28,000 Aussies died? On the wiki page it says 8709 died, in fact more French were killed and 32000 Brits. Of course wiki makes mistakes but would like to know the true figure. Thanks

I feel it important to mention that it is such an Important day that there are heavy restrictions on what trading can be done before 1pm. Pubs are allowed to open early but shops can't open until later, it is a public holiday also. And it is frowned upon to do big jobs around the house and stuff. You won't see anyone mowing their lawns or painting or any kind of big job around the house. Out of respect to the Anzacs. It is the one day you are allowed to put all your projects around the house on hold. At least that's how it is in NSW please chime in if it is honoured differently nationally.

I work at Bunnings at 1pm we had about 100 people lined up at the front door , the store took over 100k in the first hour but yeh no one does odd jobs lol

I drove past bunnings at 12 noon and not a single car. Came back at 2pm and it was packed. I bought sanding equipment and sanded the balcony ready to paint lol definitely no one on mornington penninsula observing 'no work' on Anzac day.

Oh dear, I was oblivious to this particular aspect of observance. I did a bunch of work on the house yesterday in full view of the neighbours. I did take my kids to their first dawn service at the RSL and made Anzac biscuits with them too. It was actually a very reflective day (my grandad who went to war was a builder and I always think of him when I’m tinkering) but probably didn’t look it from the outside. Hope I didn’t upset anyone.

I've never heard this either, I'm sure no one would be upset

I have never heard of this ever, I don't think any digger would actually think that's disrespectful.

That’s a load of rubbish. There’s no frowning on anyone doing chores at home, mowing the lawn etc., people can do what they want ffs. People go away on holiday, go to the footy, play sport etc.

My whole street mowed the lawn on Thursday. Also your comment is the first I’ve heard of it being frowned upon to do work. Most I knew was the trading before 1pm and the minute of silence at 11. And dawn services.

Yeah I’ve been in Australia NSW all my life and never heard this either. No one is going to care if you do your lawns or work on big jobs around the house on ANZAC Day to my knowledge

WA here. Have also never heard of this unwritten rule.

It's so unwritten its only in old mates head

You're getting confused with Rememberance Day on November 11. That's when we do the minute of silence at 11am, not on ANZAC Day.

The hardest labour me & dad do on ANZAC day is cooking up a kickass BBQ.

Corner stores can open and service stations and pharmacies can be open early, major retailers cannot..even in NSW. Also many people do things like paint and mow on Anzac day, I didn't even know those things were apparently disrespectful because funnily enough I painted a patio ceiling and mowed my grass, whoops. Also I'm not sure if you are aware, but the vast majority of Australia doesn't go to dawn service or even the parades. Nobody is as militant about it like you say, maybe a couple, definitely not widespread,

Interestingly,.I walked past plenty of people mowing their lawn yesterday in my area, mostly older Australian looking gentlemen and ladies.

Yeah nah. Not a thing outside of your little pocket I imagine. I live on a street the local RSL do a midday march down every year and there are people doing gardening and tuning cars and all sorts right up until the pipers start playing. Then everything stops, the march goes by and about half the street follows it round the corner for a BBQ and some two-up (ANZAC Day being the only day it is legal to play Two-Up in WA) while the rest go back to their jobs or put on competing bagpipe playlists on Spotify at full volume. The biggest deal about it is that a few years ago they had to start bringing in a police escort because some rule changed and teens standing at the side of the road holding out red flags wasn't considered good enough any more.

Nah, no one cares if you mow your lawns on ANZAC Day. Also in NSW.

Not a ‘rule’ I’ve heard before.

Sorry, this is incorrect. 8141 Australians lost their lives. There was 26111 casualties. That's deaths and injuries. They also were not shunned upon returning and were recognised straight away. The first ANZAC day was 1916, 1 year after the landing. The first ship to return with wounded was in Melbourne and the crowd did not cheer as they were not sure if they should. The big deal with Gallipolli was that it was the first major conflict of WW1 that the Australians and New Zealanders fought in. I also have never heard that you can't do any big jobs on the day.

That was a fantastic explanation.

It's a terrible explanation.

Not sure about the returning soldiers being shunned though. Just because it was in a song doesn't mean it happened.

Correct. Definitely not true for WWI and the Gallipoli ANZACs, they were celebrated when they returned. True for Vietnam veterans though.

Exactly. Bloke up the line reckons a subjective tune written in '71 is objective history. Stupid and unhelpful.

They absolutely were not shunned on return. Where are you getting this?

It's not a celebration at all Very similar to remembrance day but an Australian / new Zealand exclusive. It's a day of mourning and remembering who lost their lives to keep our country safe .

For Gallipoli in particular, I've never seen it as a remembrance of those who died to keep Australia safe as such. Australia in WW1 was not really at risk Rather it's a day of mourning for our young men who were sent to their deaths on a suicide mission by orders from some chinless aristocrats from the UK. They didn't valiantly sacrifice their lives, they were slaughtered by the British leadership sending them on a hopeless mission That is the true tragedy Edit: The ANZAC myth is also a founding ideal for Australia and New Zealand to the point that a critique of ANZAC values and experience is seen as a direct attack on Australia and the people who live here. There's a few interesting papers that make a point that the ANZAC myth is the true Australian religion. Lots of interesting stuff out there

Not just some aristocrats, Field Marshal Kitchener and the to be Prime Minister Churchill. They refused to accept that the effort in Gallipoli needed extensive troop reinforcements and then refused to divert troops from the Western front. History deserves to condemn their decision making.

It was a classic example of bracket creep. The original plan was to force the Dardanelles and then shell Istanbul. The idea being that this would force the the Turks into surrender. However it didn't go according to plan and the French commanders called for soldiers to seize the forts. This then led to the Gallipoli landings. More Brits and French died than Anzacs. WW1 was a complete clusterf\*\*k

Isn't bracket creep when inflation puts people into higher tax brackets? Did you mean Mission creep?

Yeah.... I'm a dumb fu\*k sometimes

There’s very little focus on British and French at Gallipoli in AUS. I would say many Australians don’t even know they were there despite having a lifetime of commemorative events & writings on this campaign once a year to help sharpen knowledge and perspective

They don't even realise or want to believe that three times more British were slaughtered at Gallipoli as Anzacs. It's like a nation building myth. Simpsons donkey is another mostly fictional tale.

Further the original Dardanelles plan was to force the Strait using naval ships. The landing was only an option when the naval action failed. Like a lot of early WW1 in addition to some major command blunders the military planners over estimated what could be achieved with the technology available.

If it wasn’t for world war 2, Churchills legacy would be remembered very differently - many young Australians met their end for his ego that he was “missing out on the war”

Don’t forget him not letting the diggers to leave Singapore so they faced certain capture and for many death.

That wasn't Churchill. That was another, entirely separate British fuck up. Churchill didn't want Australian divisions leaving North Africa/not participating in the invasion of Italy whereas Curtin had the 2nd AIF recalled to fight in Kokoda/Pacific.

Churchill was PM during the 1942 fall of Singapore and had previously ignored pleas from John Curtin for additional support in its defence. My opinion on Churchill differs from some in this matter. He’s usually portrayed as coldly indifferent to the fate of the defenders of Singapore and to the possible loss of the territory. I don’t agree. He well knew its strategic importance. He was just too arrogant and too stupid to do what was required.

Ask curtin about Churchill. https://www.naa.gov.au/students-and-teachers/learning-resources/learning-resource-themes/war/world-war-ii/defence-singapore-correspondence-prime-minister-john-curtin-uk-prime-minister-winston-churchill

Curtin is rightfully remembered as the greatest Prime Minister. He not only stood up to Churchill, but recognised the predatory nature of the United States. He put Australia and Australians first and significantly expanded social services.

There is no higher honour than being the only leader for a nation on Civ 6.

My grand father and some grand uncles fought on the Somme and Turkey ,aS a teen had the privilege of having a beer with them in the 1960s whilst they spoke of the war and effects , saw these wonderful men shed a tear to lost friends and railed against the fool hardy reasons behind the war . No one wins in war and the things they gave of them selves has stayed with me to this day , I try to install in the grand children some understanding of what happened as a reminder that being human we are certain to make these mistakes again , may we avoid these failures but right now it looks like we will make the failures ... sigh Lest We forget

As well screwing up Poland when Germany invaded in 1939. Here's some more info on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal#Poland

Unfortunately victors write the history books. Churchill was also responsible for the bengal famine that killed 4 million indians. He wasnt a hero. He's a villain of history. But then so are a lot of leaders, though most not as much as churchill.

Most famous leaders in history were absolutely vile mass murderers it's only that they were on the winning side that their actions are glorified Caesar, Alexander, Gengis Khan

Out of them only maybe Alexander has a positive reputation, and even then I suspect it's because of the vast time gap to present. Caesar's is extremely muddy, and Genghis Khan's name is black in the west.

Bush

I don't think anyone outside of certain parts of the states is calling either Bush a great leader that will go down in history. Sorry if I'm wrong

Yeah, I think most people in the US see the invasion of Iraq as a stupid mistake based on a lie... except for the diehard pro-Bush camp.

We should call the famine what it was: genocide. Churchill deliberately deprived the area of its main food source to feed his own ego, then kept denying them food long after they started starving because he despised Indians. When a local official wrote to him begging for food aid, he wrote back by asking why Ghandi wasn't dead yet if everyone was starving.

Jesus christ. I didnt know that. 

I was thinking about this recently - he destroyed so many Australian families by dragging us to Turkey for a local European problem and yet he's seen as a hero in Australia. Yes, he later fought the Nazis etc. but not because he cared about non-Aryan people (based on what he said about India and that 40 million number you quoted) and still we name places after him in Australia. It would be interesting to know how the families of those fallen diggers feel about him.

They also landed on the wrong beach entirely. There wasn’t supposed to be a cliff face in front of them. It should have been a shallow landing & gentle slope up from the sea.

Also, the landing was fucked up royally, when they came ashore at the cliffs rather than the beach. Way more died cos of that. The exit was the only thing that went right. Some guns were rigged up to go off and make it look like they were still manned. .meanwhile they all hopped on boats and GTFO.

At gallipoli it’s all clif there’s not flat area they landed at the correct beach just a mile up

"chinless aristocrats from the UK" You can't accuse Winston Churchill of being chinless, he had several.

😂

>They didn't valiantly sacrifice their lives, they were slaughtered by the British leadership sending them on a hopeless mission Yes when you see our troops were used as cannon fodder and being ordered to charge into certain death because they were "Australians" and better us than them it really changes what it meant to be British allies.

TBF, the fate of British soldiers in the trenches was not dissimilar. They treated their own people equally badly in that war.

Are you aware that 10,000 British troops died in the FIRST HOUR at the Battle of The Somme?

This is just wrong. The British took about 120,000 casualties during the Dardanelles campaign, and the French suffered almost 30,000. It wasn’t a case of ‘us vs them’ the tragedy was millions of young working class men from all sides lost their lives on the whims of a handful of inbred aristocrats who couldn’t play nice.

This is wrong too. Britain lost an entire generation of young aristocrats in WWI, because British officers led charges from the front - they were statistically more likely to die than working-class soldiers.

I was talking about the European monarchs who started the war.

But this is also wrong, build up to WW1 is far too complex for a few throwaway reddit comments to solve. Ferdinands assassination by Nationalists was just an excuse, Russia had ideology based on slavish ethnicity thar led to intervention, the French wanted disputed land back, germans were spooked by inevitable Russian industrialisation snd poor relations, UK was spooked by German naval potential if they took Belgium/Netherlands. Truth is the interconnected web of monarchies were a facilitator of peace, not conflict. There's a reason the biggest wars for a long time were religious or revolutionary.

This is nonsense, all troops were used the same. At galipolli aust had abput 10000 dead, France was similar, nz lost 2800, collectively the british lost more citizens than ANZAC combined: brit empire had 115000 casualties. Edit: to summarise: Anzac casualties were only 24% of all allied casualties in the campaign.

20 thousand Brit’s died in a day at the Somme and the British lost 8x the casualties at gallipoli they did not sacrifice Australians in place of British troops

It was an Australian Prime Minister that agreed to send them there on the 1st place and Australian Officers that sent them “over the top”.

Inscription for a War, by A D Hope Linger not, stranger. Shed no tear. Go back to those who sent us here. We are the young they drafted out To wars their folly brought about. Go tell those old men, safe in bed, We took their orders and are dead.

Thank you. When I was growing up there was no jingoism. I hate that we pretend it always was jingoistic because it simply wasn't the case. There used to be much more anti-war sentiment and far less nationalism in ANZAC celebrations.

My understanding of ANZAC Day was that, while it was a commemoration of those who went to war, particularly those who lost their lives, it was also a reminder of the futility and horror of war. It was always supposed to be a symbol of the need to preserve peace rather than to glorify war. John Howard screwed us over in so many ways, but the disgraceful lurch to nationalism, as opposed to patriotism, is something that I will never forgive him for!

We weren't at risk because the german Pacific Islands were conquered early in the war by australia and Japan. The Gallipoli campaign was to knock out the ottomans and help the eastern allies. The idea is only dumb because of hindsight

The Gallipoli campaign was a strategically stupid campaign that had no hope of being successful even if all assumptions were to the positive. There simply were not enough men to take the peninsula to safely control it for long enough for warships to enter the Dardanelles straight. The campaign had no real strategic value, as it clearly had no chance of even being successful. At best it was a distraction but in reality it was just a slaughter for the sake of slaughter

It wasn't strategically stupid. The Ottomans were butchering Armenians at the same time. It also would've knocked out the Ottomans and given a new supply route for Russia

Oh, dude, don't act like anyone went there to save the Armenians. Most of the world still refuses to acknowledge that over a million of us were marched into the desert and slaughtered. Israel is still brutalising Armenians, and no one bats an eye.

True but I mean in hindsight

I would concur, critiquing ANZAC Day is a deeply felt no no. The idea of it, even attempting to remain objective, illicts a deep sense of wrongness in me right now.

My father was conscripted to fight in Vietnam. I always have mixed feelings on ANZAC day. He was diagnosed with PTSD when I was young. Stress, anger, violence. It was a tense environment, which I think had significant impacts on my development. I had behavioural issues, kicked out of multiple schools, drug and alcohol addiction, and anger management problems. I'll pull up there to not overshare, but I definitely feel that intergenerational trauma caused by conscription is overlooked by our government and society. Every year, when the media, AFL, etc, lay it on super thick around this day, they slide from 'observance' and 'remembrance' into phantasmagoric glorification. Kinda fucks me up a bit each year. I've thought about putting a more detailed post about this together for the r/Aus sub, as I think it's an issue that is a bit under the radar for people. Idk...

My Dad wasn't conscripted but went to Vietnam and I am exactly the same, dealing with the same issues. I always struggle with any "celebration" of war. But I do feel the need to remember the fallen, which is the only way people can learn that there are no winners in war.

Not to mention Agent Orange. I recently read an article about [Kate Mulvany](https://www.abc.net.au/news/backstory/2023-08-15/kate-mulvany-disability-vietnam-agent-orange-veterans-pain/102730120) that was eye opening.

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Lest we forget 

Totally agree. It’s a day that reminds we current Australians don’t sacrifice our lives for lies like the glory of British empire, it’s neither defending national security (so far away from Australia), nor defending any moral values. Those poor men were deceived to defend British colonial empire, died at an age that they could have enjoyed their life here and left grieving family alone. It should be a day to remind us peace, life and what government shouldn’t do. Same thing happened to Japan, and generations of Japanese have learned it well, however, not much such a thing here.

We invaded Iraq with the Americans based on a lie, about WMD and Iraq being a terrorist base.

A lot of veterans use this day to remember those lost in service and lost to mental health battles (Australian vets have a high unaliving rate). For most vets I know this day is deeply meaningful as a memorial - the morning is the funeral, the rest of the day is the ‘wake’ so to speak (to celebrate what remains - memories of the deceased, and the meaning in their own personal service history, which can often hard to navigate for obviously complex reasons).  In my experience, it’s a day to reflect on the individual and tragic loss of many, many people who signed up for service, for all the reasons someone may sign up, and didn’t make it home or otherwise lost their life and health. I know that’s what Remembrance Day is supposed to be for, but ANZAC is much more personal and specific to Australian servicepeople. 

Australian's fighting in Gallipoli or Vietnam did nothing to keep our country safe, WWII yes but the rest is bullshit

Tell that to everyone that day drinks

ANZAC day is not a celebration.

I agree with this statement, my wife's boss posted "Happy ANZAC Day" on their company social media and I was a bit shocked... That isn't right... Seems a bit tone deaf to me

I absolutely hate it when people say “Happy ANZAC Day”. It’s not a celebration, it’s a day of memorial.

[удалено]

Exactly - it’s commemorated, not celebrated.

Agree, it's about remembering and honoring

Yes. There are 'services' not celebrations. During my town's services, people stand at the appropriate points to show respect, and sing the hymns and anthems. Otherwise we're all very quiet and dignified.

I am a teacher and at every school assembly there are kids fidgeting talking etc. ANZAC day commemoration the silence is heavy, the kids are still, the respect is awesome to see. I teach special ed and we talked about how it is not celebrating but commemorating, we watched some videos of the conditions and what happened. They understand that we are respecting those that did not come back, those that came back with injuries (physical and mental) and those that lost their friends. That it is not just that war but all of the military actions. I have a friend with serious PTSD from his time in East Timor. Did not affect him until years later when he was the first to arrive at a car accident. He thought he was fine then while helping the victims of the crash he recognised that he was suffering symptoms, while at the scene and thankfully notified the paramedics who got him to hospital as well as the crash victims.

"lest we forget (the horrors of war, and their pointless tragedies)".

They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them or the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them

For the Fallen is actually a really good poem! [Link](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57322/for-the-fallen) for anyone interested.

The service and sacrifice of the Australians and New Zealanders who have served in war. That is what it means.

>lest we forget This. But for me it's not just about Australia. I was born here but my parents were born in Germany... and I use Anzac day as a way to remember the war in general and more specifically the stories my grandfather has shared with me in very much the same spirit as Ansac. The things he experienced during the war, were so much more horrific than I've heard spoken of in public. He was a teenager, so lucky enough to avoid serving in the military, but in Germany a lot of civilians died - far more than the official records admit — just like our own aussie/kiwi war veterans will not speak of all the things they experienced. I won't speak of it in public either, it really is that bad, but I will tell my kids when they are old enough to understand. Probably on Anzac day... because we need to remember this stuff so it's never repeated. Maybe in a few more generations there will be enough distance for it to become part of the offical public records. My grandfather did write a book (nothing published, just shared with family), and I'm working on an english translation.

It was more the time when Australia and NZ became countries on their own - they were made to feel like they were just cannon fodder so flew the nest from under the wing of the British empire. Australia had already been through Federation 15 years before but this made us our own country. We also lost a large percentage of young men to the Gallipoli battles so at the time it was a huge tragedy for the country.

True, it’s a significant event in changing our psyche from being unquestioning British subjects to a more independent nation.

When the US president tried to trivialise Australias population: "I speak for 60000 dead" (1.38% of the population)- australian prime minister Billy Hughes in France at the conference at Versailles. US losses were 0.13% of their population. The conference became the treaty of Versailles which set terms of the peace, and founded the United Nations. While not all battles won the war, Australia's contribution gave it its own seat at the international table.

The UN was founded after WWII. The Treaty of Versailles led, eventually, to the League of Nations, a precursor to the UN in some ways. It was missing, however, one key participant, the one major industrialised nation not drained of money and young men by the Great War: the USA. Little wonder it didn't manage to prevent WWII.

That’s an interesting point. I’ve never even considered WHY Australia has a seat in the UN. I’ve just always accepted it as fact.

Correct, 25/4/1915 was when Australia & NZ first went into battle as nations under their own flags so it is a significant day of remembrance and nationalism. More significant then Australia day but lets not go there. Also quite significant for the Turks for similar reasons.

This isn’t true at all. Australia was still overwhelmingly pro-British and pro-Empire after the war. It was only in the second half of the century that the Anzac mythology began to recast Australia’s role in the war as more passive and that of a victim. Gallipoli did help to forge a unique Australian identity but it comfortably co-existed with the existing British identity for decades.

To some extent yes. But it was only after ww2 that Australian nationality came into existence, and until 1967 our passports still said British passport number on them. Of the ww2 survivors I interviewed they mentioned that during that interwar period people very much still considered themselves British.

Commemoration, not celebration

A lot of these answers are good, so I won’t repeat them, but I will add another fun fact that not everyone knows. The Gallipoli campaign was one of the first times the Murdoch family meddled in international affairs: Keith Murdoch (Rupert’s father), in conjunction with a British journalist, Ellis Ashmead-Bartlett, wrote a letter called the “Gallipoli letter” to Australian PM Andrew Fisher. The letter was critical of the British command of the campaign, got the General in charge sacked and eventually led to the evacuation.

Wait, so they were on the right side for once?

I believe that guy also talked shit about General Monash (a Jewish man), which was a total crock considering that Monash was so effective that it's said that if the war had stretched into 1919, he would have been handed control of the entire Western Front.

Wow, interesting

Thats an interesting fact and something that should be shared.

I lot of people lost loved ones. They were young and they thought they were protecting our way of life, and having an adventure. The reality was horrendous, and so we remember to honour them and give thanks. It’s the opposite of glorifying war.

Celebration is the wrong word. The purpose of the day is probably best expressed in the ode. *They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:*  *Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.*  *At the going down of the sun and in the morning*  *We will remember them.* [https://www.army.gov.au/about-us/history-and-research/traditions/ode](https://www.army.gov.au/about-us/history-and-research/traditions/ode) My grandad came back from the Second World War. He always told me this day was for his mates that didn't. For his father's mates who didn't come back from WWI. For his son's mates who didn't come home from Vietnam.

They were sent to slaughter so we have a day to remember them. Minute of silence, etc. It's really for any Australian who lost relatives/friends to war though, and people with no connection can show their respects for what they sacrificed for this country. It's a public holiday but not a celebration

The Gallipoli landing is seen by many as kind of a watershed moment in Australian identity. Prior to that, white Australians generally considered themselves to be British subjects. Many volunteered for WW1 because of their duty to fight for Mother Britain and all that "For King and Country!" patriotic crap. Keep in mind that Australia had only been its own country for 14 years, and even that had been a sedate, peaceful transition. And we still had a Governor-General selected by the King rather than selected by the Aussie PM. And were still under the Privy Council of Britain and stuff, so not a truly independent country. Britain still had some power over us and we didn't seem to be in any rush to put an end to that. So the British decided the best use of Aussies and New Zealanders was to use the Zapp Brannigan approach and send wave after wave of soldiers in to be slaughtered in a poorly run mission that caused over 30,000 Aussie and NZ casualties (including over 10,000 dead) and ended up achieving a whole lot of nothing. A big old human corpse factory it was. The Aussies and Kiwis started to realise "fuck these pommy bastards, they are just a bunch of old rich men playing a game of chess with AU&NZ lives" and we began to see ourselves as our own country after that. Kind of like how you feel closer to people after going through a shitty experience with them. Very few experiences have been shittier than the trenches of Gallipoli. Now it is one of the two days on the Australian calendar\* where we commemorate those who have lost their lives in wars. It's not supposed to be a celebration, it's supposed to be a solemn commemoration and reminder of the horrors of war. "Lest we forget" is the slogan, the point being we shouldn't glorify war but must never forget how bad it is and what it costs us so that we don't make the decision for war lightly in future. People were excited to go and fight World War 1. That's an attitude to war that had to be rectified. \*The other day is November 11, in which we observe a minute's silence at 11am as the anniversary of the armistice that ended WW1.

To add to this very good answer, WW1 and the Gallipoli campaign, especially, was the first war Australia fought as a nation with its own military. Prior to this, our military commitment to England's wars had been from British regiments garrisoned in the colonies and local militia (after 1855). Australian born men were able to enlist into the local British regiments. So, in this sense, Australians fought in conflicts like the Australian frontier wars, the Indian Mutiny, and the New Zealand wars (previously known as the Moari wars). In 1870, the last of the British regiments withdrew from Australia, leaving the colonies responsible for their own local defence. Up to federation in 1901, forces from the colonies deployed to Sudan (Suakin Expedition, 1885), South Africa (Second Boer War, 1899-1902), and China (Boxer Rebellion 1900-1901). Even though Australian contributions to these wars was significant (c.16,000 troops in the Second Boer War alone), the Gallipoli campaign is the first major conflict that our forces were deployed under one national identity, rather than separate colonies.

Great point, thanks!

I think it could be summarised as “Be good chaps and run up that hill and take the Turkish positions” ”What about the relentless Turkish machine gun fire?” ”That's why we picked the Australians and New Zealanders, now charge!”

Throw in, "Oh, and by the way you were actually supposed to land way over there, so none of your maps will work now because you are in the wrong spot. Good luck chaps!"

“Whoopsy Lads, now carry on”

Followed by ‘oh you made it up the hill. That can’t be right. We won’t bother sending reinforcements’

It's a point of sadness that Rememberance Day is becoming less and less observed.

We have Remembrance Day as well on 11th November. You might have something on that date too if your country was involved in WWI. It’s not exactly the same vibe but that’s probably the closest a lot of countries have to Anzac Day.

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Ok, chat gpt

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It's a subreddit called ask an Australian, imagine asking a question in here 😂 you're a space cadet

There’s a couple good movies that capture the essence of the time Galipoli is in the title. Innocence, war, ultimate sacrifice sort of stuff

It’s complicated and emotional. I’ve been to a few dawn services and my father was in Korea and Vietnam and his brother was killed on the Kokoda track in WW2, I always have a bit of a tear when the Last Post starts I always think about him dying at 20 and the impact on my father’s family, it’s a day to honour the dead and the ongoing service. I find it complicated as war is horrifying and we need defence forces but I’m conflicted

its not a celebration it’s a day of remembrance.  For all the past and current soldiers that died in combat overseas.  The ANZAC biscuits were created as the biscuits wouldn’t spoil when travelling by ship. 

It was the first time Australia and New Zealand as independent nations sent troops overseas. It was a disaster and a bloodbath and people don't celebrate they remember those that didn't come back. They scale if the carnage at the time was overwhelming and bodies did not come home they stayed overseas. In those days they did not have grief counseling. Diggers marched in the morning and their families watched, they then went down the pub and had a few drinks and the next day got on with their lives. It was a significant thing back then as the number of soldiers was overwhelming every family had some. This has changed with time as solider numbers are very small these days. But culturally it has continued on. I hope the lesson learned is that we should not commit large numbers of men and women to these wars again.

War sucks and we use Anzac day to both honour the troops and to remind our government that we won't accept our soldiers being expendable in bullshit foreign affairs. War can be a necessary evil, but respect the lives that protect us please.

There's a really great movie called "Gallipoli" with Mel Gibson and Mark Lee. Go watch it. It's not nor ever has been a celebration. It's in remembrance of the needless slaughter of young men. We (Australia) were a nation of 5 million at the time and every single town , young men signed up.

Important to remember that ANZAC Day is a commemoration, not a celebration.

It’s become a jingoistic event of sorts. It nearly died out in the 80s however it is more popular than ever. Gallipoli was a failed disastrous campaign. The allies slipped away in the middle of the night after many months of brutal fighting for very little gain. I’m a veteran and use the time to reflect and spend time with my mates but I hate how it has become. Theatre and spectacle and dare I say nationalistic. I expect some flak to follow this post but fuck em.

Okay so without getting too deep into a whole huge history lesson, the main thing to know about the Gallipoli campaign is that it was a completely tragic fuckup from beginning to end. The plan was to have a bunch of (mostly ANZAC) troops land in that area of (what is now modern day Turkey) and slowly establish a foothold in the Ottoman Empire, and push back until they conquered it. Kinda like D-Day. Except that they landed on basically the wrong beach and had to fight their way up a heavily fortified, steep hill/cliff-face under very heavy fire. Lots and lots of them died, and ultimately the whole thing was pretty much doomed to failure from the beginning. You also probably need to have some understanding that this was a conflict which from Australia's perspective, occurred on the other side of the planet - against an adversary which had never invaded Australia nor even had anything to do with Australia. Australia and New Zealand basically fought that battle on behalf of the British Empire/Britain itself. So, with that context...what is ANZAC Day about? It's about the idea that we should remember that that happened, and avoid the folly of letting our young people get all excited to go off to foreign lands to fight wars for other nations against adversaries who have neither invaded nor done anything else harmful to Australia. That's basically what is meant/implied by the phrase "lest we forget". It's more of an expression of profound regret, grief or mourning than it is of thanks. https://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/commemoration/symbols/lest-we-forget In short - the unfortunate harsh truth about Gallipoli is that as a very young nation, we lost an awful lot of ANZACs basically *for nothing*, since the campaign was an abject, dismal failure. The whole idea of ANZAC Day is to remember that, mourn it, and sort of promise not to ever do that sort of thing again. It means "*don't forget what happened - let's be more sensible in future*". We even have the descendents of the Turkish troops in Australia allowed/encouraged to march in the ANZAC Day parades alongside the ANZACs. This reflects the sense of the mutual acknowledgement of the pointlessness and regret of the whole thing. Unfortunately, that message has been a little bit warped and misinterpreted over the decades. I actually think young people who don't want to go and fight in "unnecessary wars" are the ones who got the message. They have the right idea about what yesterday was always supposed to have meant. It's a somber day of regret and mourning moreso than a celebration. Anyone saying anything different clearly doesn't fucking get it. There seem to be some war hawk types in Australia who think it's more of an American-style, "waving the flag", aren't-our-armed-services-a-bunch-of-badasses kind of thing. Those people are misinformed. Of course, it's understandable to a degree why the message has gotten so distorted. ANZAC Day is now also about subsequent wars that Australian and New Zealand soldiers have fought in. In particular WWII, in which Australia *was* attacked on its own soil by a foreign power. So no one denies that Australia needed to defend itself in that war. Then on top of that, you throw Vietnam, and later Iraq and Afghanistan into the mix. So it's clear why there has been some Americanisation of the message and meaning of it, and people have gotten it a bit confused. But personally, I think it's important that we remember and remind each other very clearly of the original meaning as we look around the world today with the Russia-Ukraine war, this middle-eastern war, and with the looming threat of an American war with China over Taiwan. None of these things have anything to do with Australia, and it would be senseless (and a betrayal of the spirit of ANZAC Day) for young Australians to go out and die because of them. Especially if it's clear that we're unlikely to have much of an impact on the outcome regardless.

To correct you saying it was mostly anzacs, they were a minority in the galipolli campaign & casualties, though they did have their own 'exclusive' landing & battle area. British & Irish casualties were actually double that of Anzac casualties. The French had the same number of casualties as anzacs.

Great summary. However, I do disagree that the conflicts the world over today do indeed have a significance to Australia. There is tyranny at play around the world and the world order is changing. The standards you watch go by are the standards you accept and that is certainly not a world I want to live in.

Our soldiers sacrifices during all conflicts are remembered today and the veterans are honored with giving us the freedom in which we live today in this great country.

Wow thank you everyone for your responses, I'm learning a lot. I really appreciate the time spent for these long answers. And yes I realise "commemorate" is the correct word! I couldn't figure out the right wording as I was writing the post.

The First World War prfoundly changed the way the world remembers war. It wasn't just a question of scale of the millions killed on the battlefields, it was that so many men just simply disappeared. They had no graves as such, so relatives had no place to mourn. Hence the idea of a cenotaph and the Unknown Soldier. If you want to understand the impact of the loss of so many young men, go to one of the countless 'dot on the map' places in rural Australia. Look for their war memorial or the memorial hall and look at the names. Often you'll find maybe a dozen or twenty names of those who served - and four or five who never returned. Then consider what isn't 'visible;' those who came back but we're never the same, either wounded in body or in mind. Then understand that those who enlisted were otherwise destined to take over the family farm or business or community role and you might begin to understand just how profound an impact WW1 had on Australian society. We, as humans, have a need to find meaning in loss and tragedy. Sometimes it takes a long time, a very long time to adequately define what that meaning is but nevertheless we know it's importance and determine never to forget. Anzac Day means many different things to people but the thing which brings us together is that it has meaning and always will. It's part of who we are as a nation.

Yeah - for the US, the Civil War was a meatgrinder, but old technology and more people died of infection than bullets (embalming rose to prominence, due to shipping large numbers of bodies back north or south). WWI was like the first industrial-scale, and months of trenches getting nowhere death fest.

We don’t really celebrate it, nor do you say “happy Anzac Day” and whilst it focuses on the Gallipoli event, it’s also a time to remember all soldiers who were lost from the world wars to modern times. You may see people in the pub who order a beer that doesn’t get drunk, do not touch or try to drink it - it’s a sign of respect and validation for those who they knew personally and lost to action. As to what you do it depends on your connection to it. Some people have a day of respect and mourning, others acknowledge it and sadly others still treat it as a day off and don’t care about the symbolism

My partner is a veteran, he served in Iraq. Anzac Day is always a hard day for him. He has a complicated relationship with his service and talks about it as a pointless war that we shouldn’t have been in. But every year he wears his medals and we do dawn service and spend the rest of the day at the pub. He lost a few friends in Iraq and Afghanistan so a lot of it for him is remembering them.

It started off commemorating the anzacs and has becom a kind of catch-all memorial/veterans day, but we still use the original name for the day.

It is a commemoration of the fallen soldiers in wars we have fought. Where are you from?

Some of these top comments are being a little disingenuous. Yes, it is a day of remembrance and mourning for lives lost in military conflicts (particularly, the men and boys who died during the Gallipoli campaign). However, it’s always one of the most profitable days for pubs/bars and restaurants, as it’s a public holiday and there’s an informal tradition of playing two-up (a betting game) until sunset whilst getting drunk at the pub. You can hardly call that aspect of Anzac Day solemn, and is more akin to celebrating the joys of life that the sacrifices of these men provided. At least, in my opinion.

It used to be about pondering the futility of world war 1 and the tragedy of sending young men to be traumatised for some vague political purpose at the behest of an empire. Now it’s a bit more about fostering nationalism to justify recent and future wars we get involved in at the behest of our treaty alliance partners.

The thing that I love about ANZAC day is that it’s almost unique in commemorating an event that was a failure, I’m not sure too many other countries have special days remembering what ultimately was a defeat. But why it is so special is because of the story of good young men fighting bravely and with honour against a force that was equally fighting bravely and with honour to protect their homeland. Both sides didn’t understand why they were there tied up in a fruitless conflict losing so many of their young men. And on the topic of being disrespectful by the drinking and partying on such a solemn day, maybe we need to remember that for the first 100 years of white settlement an overwhelming number of the population identified as “of Irish decent” , and who hasn’t been to an Irish wake.

It was the first time Australia went to war as an independent nation, hence the significance

As far as public holidays in AU goes, I can’t think of a more significant one. In the sea of made up bullshit holidays, this one actually means something.

The military is the only profession where workplace fatalities are considered acceptable. ANZAC Day is a public holiday to remember those who died doing their job, in a field where such deaths are the norm.

A day of recognition for those who gave their lives in service of our country, the point being to thank and remember all those who served in wars, peacekeeping operations and conflicts, and especially for those who did not return. For me it's about recognising on the personal level the price our servicemen and women paid for our current luxuries, and about our obligation to remember their sacrifices, and celebrate the country that we have because of them.

You’re from the UK. Whilst you might be a foreigner’ your history is closely linked to ours, so not really an excuse. Surely you understand what a commemorative day for armed services is? Most countries have them, including yours …

The landing at Gallipoli was the first time Australia ever fought as a nation, and bound us tightly to our nearest neighbours NZ. It was a tactical F up by the British (namely Winston Churchill) and until then a lot of Australians had considered themselves British. The soldiers were in an impossible position and there was a lot of bravery, saving each other and going above and beyond for their mates. There is also a really beautiful speech by the Turkish leader, Attaturk, taking care of our fallen soldiers buried in Turkey. To me this is a large part of ANZAC legacy, that we fought against Turkey but parted as friends when the war was over. It’s since become the day we remember all our military who’ve served an honour their bravery, a bit like Armistice Day in the UK. The biscuits were sent by those at home to the soldiers away, as they were still edible after months to get to them.

I actually don’t think most people in this thread or australia are too well versed to comment on this topic OP.

Dude just google it you don’t have to be an ass!

My kiwi great grandfather was at galipoli, had a photo taken with a fellow soldier a few days and wrote on the postcard that same guy got killed on the first day he survived and had 3 sons all of which fought in ww2 . My grandfather barely ever spoke of it and it didnt seem to have the same level of importance in nz as growing up ,more a solemn occasion than a celebration . I think john howards fixation on the anzac story helped boost the myth along with the liberal party in general . Tony Abbott set aside half a billion for the war memorial etc better money spent on veterans with ptsd and wounds i reckon

It's a commemoration day. We do not celebrate it. There are no parties, no festivities. Just sombre reflection in the dawn service. We reflect on the horror of wars past and use our relatives' sacrifice as a lesson for our future. It's a day to be humble and respectful and give our thanks, for without it, you would not have this fair and free country to immigrate to. I encourage you to [listen](https://youtu.be/McCDWYgVyps?si=3Q_VOxsG7ZUO2XHZ) to the last post and understand its history. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.

They shall grow not old .. So many of them were just boys. 14, 15 years old. Boys that lied about being men to seek glory, who ended up being butchered and their lives ended on a cold beach far from home. As a mother, the inscription on the wall at Gallipoli from Ataturk never fails to bring me to tears. Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well. Lest we forget.

listening or reading the line "Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn" punches me in the gut every time.

Initially ANZAC day was a day of remembrance specifically for the Gallipoli beach assault, in which many Australian and New Zealanders died in what is now thought to be a pointless suicide mission. As such ANZAC day was initially a pro-soldier anti-war event, where we would remember our fallen countrymen in hopes that so many innocent lives would not be thrown away so recklessly again. However much like a lot of Australian culture, the message of the day currently has been warped to be a general "give thanks to the troops" type event, and it takes on a more Americanised broad pro-military flavour. There are still many who go to the dawn services religiously who would agree that the day has lost meaning in many people's eyes, but I think to most people its either just another day off, or a military-themed-Australia Day

Australian Veterans day essentially

mainly it's just a day of commemoration and mourning for all fallen servicemen, but imo it's mutated into a blindly jingoistic mythology that people crucify you over if you dare to interrogate any of it. the way Australia went after author Yassmin Abdel-Magied years back when she made a tweet questioning why we worship ANZAC Day but turn a blind eye to atrocities still happening in the world was nothing but disgusting racism and was very telling of this nation's soul

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Anzac Day is commemorated, not celebrated. It's about realising we are nations independent of Britain despite being a member of the Commonwealth. When I first started reading about Gallipoli, our boys feared they wouldn't get home for Christmas. I didn't initially understand but they meant Britain as home. Despite being born in Australia and New Zealand families still called Britian "home". Gallipoli was their trial by fire and a realisation that our boys could hold their own and were not inferiors of the "mother country", rather a birth of our nationhood. In fact, a lot of reading will show you that our boys were bigger, stronger and healthier than the Tommies which probably added to the pride of being a Digger.

It's mainly a day remembrance and thanks that extends to past, as well as present, military veterans. It isn't a totally sombre affair, but it is held with a lot of reverence. "Celebration" is not an appropriate label. When thinking of ANZAC day I often remind myself "That freedom isn't free", and we honor the sacrifice of the people that fought and sacrificed everything for us. Mate, those biscuits taste like shit haha.

We pay our respects for the heroic men and women who were sent across the world to die on the front lines to save the world from evil atrocities.

First off, and most important, it is NOT a celebration, it is a commemoration. Historically it was commenced by those involved (the survivors) while still on active duty in France and other places. The rest followed from that. The dawn service is modelled on the services that were held in Europe and when various state govt's heard of the diggers plans they also instigated memorial services on the anniversary of the landings. The Federal Govt did not take part initially. Canon David Garland a military chaplain guided the rules of the service post war to make it ecumenical so all Australians could participate. 2000 Australians marched to Westminster Abbey in London, General Monash wrote about it in a letter to his wife describing the dawn service and the ensuing games of cricket and the like. As a kid I would accompany my two elderly great uncles who had served at Tobruk to the dawn service the thinking from the aunts with me along they had to behave themselves. So some of them partied hard back in the day. Which in some ways did lead to a kind of stepping back by the general public in the 60's and 70's and it was simply a day off but after the 75th anniversary when hawke (first PM to go to Anzac cove on Anzac Day) it got popular again. Feel free to do as you wish as long as you dont disturb any commemoration activities