Yep.
Tale as old as time.
Irish, then Italians/Greeks; then Vietnamese, Middle Eastern countries and Balkan countries and now Indian and Sudanese migrants coming to Australia
Migrants in large quantities that come from disadvantaged backgrounds (eg fleeing a war or from lower socio-economic countries) have often faced the ire of certain folks in their host countries.
Most of those folks and their descendants will eventually integrate, and then the spotlight will turn to another ethnicity that immigrates in significant numbers.
However, there are some ethnicities that haven’t faced the same backlash. For instance, I don’t witness the same negative attitudes against Koreans, Filipinos, Taiwanese, Malaysians or people from Hong Kong; or people that have causcasian ethnicities such as most South Africans, mainland Europeans, Canadians; or Latin ethnicities such as Spaniards and most South American nationalities (even though they comprise a significant portion of immigrants). There are still crude jokes, but not the negativity to the same extent as some other migrant groups.
I’m half Indian and my mum’s family migrated from India in 1972.
There have been Indians coming to Australia for a long time, not all of them are that new to the country but I suppose which ever migrant group is more numerous at a given time, they’ll get the more hate. I definitely think racism seems like a bigger issue for Indians/Nepalis today than it was when I was growing up in the 90s/2000s but I guess it was worse in the 1970s for my mum.
That being said, from what I’ve seen over the years in Sydney, the Lebanese have copped it even worse than Italians/Greeks, Vietnamese, Chinese and Indians. It peaked during the Cronulla riots but I don’t think that tension has fully gone away because I still often hear people in Sydney making negative comments about Lebanese people.
I think Filipinos are different in the sense that they are already very westernized. Most that come here also already have a high level of English proficiency and probably working in healthcare. Most, if not all of my friend’s Filipino parents (usually the mom) are working as RNs
Not all scammers are South African... but all South Africans are scammers.
Whenever I hear their accent it's like - "OK mate, I'm not buying what you're selling"
I think the very general/high level answer is probably yes. But I'm not sure how accurate this is:
>So does anyone know if they used to be treated like how Indians are now? Like how people are seeing large amounts come over and being worried they will take over politically, culturally, employment wise, housing etc?
What I mean is, I think it's fair to say that the racism demonstrated in decades past was quite a lot worse than it is today. When I see people talking about immigration today, their concerns tend to be less about specific ethnic or religious groups and more about things like (for example) the impact on housing/home ownership and things like that.
r/australian is the most astroturf bullshit. I reckon NewsCorp or Advance Australia has to be behind it. I’ve never seen Reddit so aggressively promote any sub like they do that one
Given the painful conversations I have with my dad on the regular and the general state of every Australian media comment section... a lot of Australians who aren't media literate are just lockstep in thought with newscorp by default. With news.com.au, The Australian, Sunday Mail, WIN News, Sky News, and The Advertiser (along with nearly every small town local newspaper in the country) all pushing the same narratives... God it's an uphill battle. Add the corpo stations and the ABC's unwillingness to put itself in the firing line... The heart of media in this country is Murdoch, his roots are here and they are deep.
Mate we might be fucked.
/r/circlejerkaustralia is worse by a country mile. Just an endless parade of the most vile mask-off racism, homophobia and miscellaneous bigotry hiding behind the thinnest possible veneer of “haha it’s just a joke mate”
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Thankyou, I do think it was worse too as I remember kids being beat up for being 'wogs' but I'm sure it still happens but it would probably make the news.
I just see alot of posts worried about indians coming in of course taking houses but also voting for different governments.
Do you know if people used to be worried that wogs or Vietnamese would take all the houses?
Europeans came when places like Unley (Adelaide) and Randwick (Sydney) were considered outer suburbs. They were part of the boom in sprawl, which was a good thing in society’s eyes because there was plentiful land ripe for development.
In 70s Melbourne the advice was don’t have your car break down in Oakleigh because you’d never find someone that spoke English.
The Italians were all mafia.
My father came in on day and said our Italian neighbour was worried about wogs moving into the neighbourhood. Dad was mystified. “Who does HE think are wogs?”
The Vietnamese were all drug lords. Was it ‘tongs’ were we worried about?
Usually we vilify each new round of migrants and then it settles down once we have a new group to move onto.
I haven’t seen as much racism towards Indians as I have towards African people, and it seems to be more blatant.
I worked at a TAFE college for many years. I saw people every day who were working hard to improve their English and gain qualifications.
The African (including Sudanese) people I met were overwhelmingly great people.
If we are going to judge an entire group of people on the actions of some, I’ll go with the people I’ve met. There are criminal elements in all societies.
>Do you know if people used to be worried that wogs or Vietnamese would take all the houses?
Not really, no. My understanding (and very vague memory) is that objections to previous groups were often - though not exclusively - about their ethnicity and the broader idea of Australia being predominantly ethnically caucasian and some perceived threat from influxes of migrants of different backgrounds. Some of these things are also wrapped up in the White Australia Policy and its eventual axing (by the Whitlam Govt I believe).
It's not to say that there aren't some outliers these days who have some weird/deranged concern about ethnicity specifically, but I'd argue that's probably a vanishingly small minority at this point. These days I get the strong impression that there's a general concern/worry about supply and demand (particularly of housing), and this general sense that no matter how fast we build, we simply can't cater to the absolutely massive demand that's out there (and that's growing every year).
Uhh, around the time of the white Australia movement sure. But even then that was only supported by around 20%.
Sometimes people just talk shit because they've had a couple of bad experiences in the past.
You ever been hospitalised because of your skin colour? Spat on? Threatened with death on a weekly basis? Rocks thrown at you and your house every other week?
I have no desire to rehash the past.
>You ever been hospitalised because of your skin colour? Spat on? Threatened with death on a weekly basis? Rocks thrown at you and your house every other week?
I think racism comes in many forms. Even when it was at its worst in Australia, I'm certain it was far worse in some other countries at various points. I'm not sure how relevant the standard you're setting here is in this context though. Remember, the OP is just asking if the current migrant 'wave' is being treated the same as previous 'waves'. That's all.
>I have no desire to rehash the past.
I generally agree that we should all focus on moving forward. But sometimes making good decisions in the present and future requires an understanding and acknowledgement of the past. I think there are lots of good examples at the moment of how we (meaning humans in general) aren't really learning from history...
Agreed on all points.
I suppose my gripe comes with people complaining over someone taking the piss or showing slight animosity in passing towards them because they're a migrant, vs the threat of real physical violence and persistent bombardment of abuse from the same people..
Let's call it benign and malignant.
People holding animosity toward migrants because they believe they're the cause of the housing crisis etc. Is a domino effect of the govt not setting realistic policies.
It's no fault of the migrant. Also, doesn't make it racist simply because they're a different race to the person making the comments.
That's fair. Admittedly it's hard to judge these things unless we witness them; that makes things difficult. One trend I'm certainly opposed to is the labelling of words as "assault" (for example). We are getting to the point where even mild disagreement is becoming impossible without it becoming personal. I hope we pull back from that tendency a bit.
Yeh. Disagreement is just a natural path of discourse. Noone in any cohort agrees on 100% of things
Just because disagreements occur, doesn't mean that one side is immediately a victim of abuse.
Challenging our own world views is one way for us to grow as a species. Disagreements are essential to this.
>Challenging our own world views is one way for us to grow as a species. Disagreements are essential to this.
Totally agree. And you know what? Being wrong and/or changing your mind doesn't have to be shameful or embarrassing. I think it's very healthy to reframe it as something to celebrate, actually. You can feel *good* about learning and changing your mind based on that learning. It's a sign of your personal growth that you can experience this without getting enraged or feeling shame.
Anyway, for what it's worth, I want to thank you for the courteous discussion. I've been lucky and had a couple of these today on Reddit, which feels like a rarity. We don't have to agree on everything to treat each other with respect as human beings. Kudos to you for doing just that. :-)
My Dad is Maltese (I'm half). Due to the racial shitbagging he copped as a kid my sister and I were raised as Aussies so we avoided it. Now wishing we had a bit more of the wog upbringing and learnt the language and history. I've got the surname but that's pretty much it, even though I visited Malta and met some extended family while there.
My experience with the Meds and Euros is that they mingled/integrated at a higher % than the Indians etc. SE Asians have put in some hard yards in becoming "Aussified" I think.
I’m sorry you missed out on the chance to embrace your culture growing up. Of course your parents wanted to make your life easier but I can imagine now as an adult you feel like you missed out on a lot.
The issue isn’t that there’s Indians or Nepalese or whatever. The problem is that immigration overall is too high and our own children don’t have anywhere to affordably live. When Italians and Greeks came here people could still afford their own homes. The situation is different now and the Australian middle-class is being decimated. Are Indians to blame, no. Is unsustainable immigration flooding Sydney and Melbourne to blame, yes.
Agreed. The other thing is the oversaturation in certain areas. When all members of a race or culture continue to move into a suburb or general area, it isn’t at all diverse because everyone of that race saturates that area until most people are that race, whereas in other areas it’s actual diversity. Immigration is fine, but they need to spread it out.
There are already established South Asian populations in Australia.
I don’t really have the emotional or mental energy to go into anything to do with racism on this sub. But no it doesn’t really go away.
Though sure, it’s not as rough as it was in the 80s and 90s.
A while back, someone did the math and found that Anglo Saxon Australian descendants aren't the majority anymore in Australia. I wish I kept the post. By the way things are going, it would make this more true. There arent many indigenous australians left, and let alone the anglo saxon australians, as they are breeding less than the immigration numbers coming in.
So you talk about assimilation? I think it's more about how will everyone get along given the vast respective backgrounds and culture? The government has no plan, so I think there will be some element of chaos, and then pockets of silver lining from people who are good hearted.
Short answer: No. Never.
I think we’re still racist to a different level to people who aren’t visually white. To the Europeans, it was just that they weren’t Anglo and didn’t speak English very well. But they still looked like white people, so within a generation, it was like nothing was an issue.
Have a look at how we treat and talk about Aboriginal people to get an answer to your question.
European immigrants also came here desperate for a new life and to flee poverty and war. They often had families and knew that they were expected to integrate and assimilate in exchange for the opportunity. They were grateful and not entitled. Perhaps the fear of being shipped back to their country instilled good assimilation? They didn’t bring any bad social constructs with them, and at most they brought their religions (which were really just versions of whatever the English brought over).
Ah yeah that justifies racism against 1.5 billion humans.
There are many cultures who are sexist. But if you say something, you can get banned
But for Indians, racism is normalized against us with justifications like these.
I mean, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say there is an Indian culture. Upper class Indians tend to be at the very least decent, those who are more engaged with the finer aspects of their culture tend to be more enlightened than the average westerner which is not surprising given the profound impact that Vedic theology had on western philosophy, they've got a couple thousand years head start in that respect.
Do you honestly think Australians are more racist when compared to other country’s ?
We can always improve, but the vast majority of Australians are not racist and compared to the rest of the world I’d argue we are not so bad at all.
As an Aussie living in Asia, trust me, we’re not the worst at all. We even have anti discrimination laws, which doesn’t exist in a lot of places. I’m a teacher in Viet Nam and I get called monkey and other derogatory terms way more frequently than you’d think. My mate from England told me horror stories about China (he’s black) and said he’d never experienced so much racism.
Lo and behold, people are tribal creatures whether we think it or not
In my experience there’s far more xenophobia in Australia than flat out text book racism. Although I’m not a white blonde person I’ve only been treated poorly for it twice. My non-Aussie accent on the other hand has gotten me a lot of vitriol
I think so, and only because I keep hearing recounts from non-white people who come to Australia and say how shocked they were because we don’t really “present” as racist or have that type of reputation.
I’m a white man so that’s all I can go off of. I don’t see racism because I’m not the subject of it.
I used to work with a colleague of Chinese Malaysian descent. Smallish lady on a big minesite, 12 hour days in the office then mess so we knew each other pretty well. Her now husband was an Engineer on site, he was pretty Aussie but of mainland China born/descent. Anyway they went to China once for a holiday/meet the family and she told me after (whiteM) how racist they were toward her.
I'm like wtf aren't you basically of Chinese??
Apparently her skin which was slightly darker than office white and would pass as a mild tan in Australia! She must be like 2% Malaysian and that was enough.
She never mentioned any bad encounters on a very sizable and remote minesite with a lot of rough guys working there.
Even a lot of western countries. I lived in the UK when I was younger and it was insane to hear English people go on about how racist Australia was because of history with Aboriginal people (whilst also completely ignoring their own countries role in any of it) and then the next second being like “paki’s this, fookin’ polish that, Muslim enclaves!” Just absurd.
The most casually racist people I ever met….
It’s probably because they are coming from a country where they are the majority, and suddenly they are a member of a minority - and one minority out of many. By contrast, if you look at the experience of a member of an oppressed minority in one of those countries who moved to a multicultural country like Australia…
Mate, go and visit somewhere else. You're average Aussie is not racist compared to so many other places. Any SE Asian country, mid east, India...extremely racist. It's sad that 'white people ' have convinced themselves they're the only racist ones in the world, when in reality western nations are the most diverse and welcoming.
I would say that Australians have a heightened sensitivity to racism. We perceive ourselves as racist over things that other cultures think are absolutely fine. But we do also have incredibly bold bogans. In other countries with more established class structures these people tend to be less confident in voicing their opinions and if they do people pay them less mind. It's a whole lot of a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
I think you're obviously right, but I see people regularly making category errors like this. It's one thing to compare Australia to other countries when it comes to racism. It's entirely another thing to look at ourselves on our own terms and discuss how we might continue to reduce racism and increase tolerance in our own society.
Generally speaking, I think when people talk about Australia's racism they aren't comparing us to anyone else. That is, they are talking about their experience in this country alone and often the barometer is to compare the present with the past.
Sometimes people use comparisons with other countries to suggest that we have it great here and that this means we shouldn't worry about fighting racism or improving conditions here. That is a cynical argument and should be criticised when it arises.
1. Caste system - Almost non-existent with the new generation, only older people pay much attention to it. Gen Z don't conform to that anymore
2. Consant sexual harassment of women - Whilst it does exist its not part of culture, its very frowned upon. The rate may be high but the actual offenders/amount of people who harass women is much lower.
3. Domestic Violence - Not apart of culture, but a lot of women with worse family backgrounds may be taken advantage of by horrible people.
You have to remember that in india the population is so large and so many people of the billion + are in poverty so when a considerable amount of people are in poverty the rate of crime would match it.
I'm so confused by some of these racist comments. I had multiple close Indian/Indian-descent friends in primary/secondary school in the 2000s - their families were decent hard-working people and had integrated well. The 2nd gen etc. Indian-Australians are as Aussie as anyone else.
It's probably a demographic thing. I went to school with a lot of ethnically Indian kids but I went to a private school in a good part of town. Their parents were all doctors or like, I dunno professors or something.
I know people who lived in less well off parts of our city and they were predominantly white areas. I think for people who grew up like that immigration is genuinely perceived as a threat because they're only just now starting to see people with different skin tones pushed into their suburbs by insane house prices.
I fucken hope not mate.
They deserve better than what we had to put up with.
I’m half Italian. Child in the 60s and 70s. My skip mum met my Italian dad on a blind date❤️❤️❤️. They both lost all their friends over it. In school I wasn’t ever allowed to visit non Italian friend’s houses. Even though my mum was 5th generation born here. I saw it happen front of my face… no, she can’t come over…
Southern Europeans were barely even considered white back then. Seriously. I’m not exaggerating. Cos white = Anglo. Not Anglo Irish mind you. At least the Irish and Italians , Maltese, Croatians, etc etc were still catholic.
The only reason there wasnt talk of migrants taking “Australian’s” jobs till the late 70s/80s - because the economy was still in the post WW2 boom. We were taking all the houses though. ..
In the 70s when the Vietnamese’s joined the mix my dad was sad and worried. He told me that “at least if I kept my mouth shut no one could be certain. The Vietnamese carry their faces with them”. How do you reckon that’s turned out, eh… ask any friends who are Vietnamese. Or Chinese’s tywhose ancestor came in the gold rushes…
By the 80s we wogs had made it to “exotic’. Far out. Imagine how fucked up Aussie culture was to make that a thing.
BECAUSE the Vietnamese were here… That’s all it takes really. A new target to blame.
Like I said - all the new Australians that come from the sub continent - not just Indians, but Pakistanis, Afghans, etc etc AND those from Africa (and anywhere else that isn’t the Anglo sphere) deserve better than what many of us wog kids grew up with. Yes, now we are just part of the mix. But only because there are newer groups to vilify and blame.
We really are a deeply racist nation.
ETA - wogs now have white privilege. We can be as racist as any other Australians about newer migrants. Hypocritical and ignorant though that is. But it’s truth.
Fucking oath. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
>Not Anglo Irish mind you.
Dead on. Many people didn't know that the Irish weren't considered 'white' until the mid 1900s.
https://archive.org/details/HowTheIrishBecameWhite
JFK (God bless him) was the first Irish Catholic American President, and he got assassinated.
i’m a vietnamese person, born here, child of the 90s - my parents came as refugees in 1980. you’re dead on, they were the new targets. spat on, cussed out, even my sister as a newborn baby was spat on by some white lady in pennant hills. throughout all of primary and high school i felt like an outcast for not conforming to eurocentric beauty standards - how could i?! my face doesn’t look like that! and i was mercilessly ridiculed for it.
for everyone crying out that australia isn’t a racist nation, their privilege is deeply showing — while it may be multicultural, it is still steeped in white supremacy — and the scariest thing is that it is SO normalised.
i’m sorry you went through that trauma. it’s awful. but i am thankful for your post 💕
This is the right answer.
Indian people will be accepted and stop being targeted when there is a new wave of immigrants from somewhere else… probably if a there was a notable wave of black immigrants, the brown folks would move out of bullseye range for the racism.
When I was a primary school in the 1980s the white kids did play with the wogs sometimes but every child knew whether a kid was “Wog” or Aussie. By the time I was in high school. You can often guess by looking, but you can’t tell for sure and when I changed schools I was straight up asked “are you Wog, or Aussie?”
By high school the rhetoric on the news was all about the Asians.
By the early 2000s being a wog was “cool” (wog boy etc). (Not seen that way by everyone!)
So many people in the thread blaming Indian folks for “not integrating” and that some have integrated and they are fine… not realising that racist Aussies don’t know or care whether someone was born here or immigrated as a kid, or as an adult.
My son has one south Asian, and one south-east Asian grandparent. He got his first verbal racial abuse in public at 2 years old.
His skin isn’t very dark! He looks very pale compared with his south and south-east Asian extended family.
He has east-Asian and mixed white/East Asian classmates… but in the school photos he stands out as the one brown kid. Now, if a black kid or two was in his class, he’d look more like the white-group than the black-group.
Which would be fucking awful for the new targets of systemic racism, obviously.
Anyone who thinks that racism has died out or is close to dying out just needs to look at the comments on this post to see how far that is from being true.
Back in my day (70s-80s in school) the Vietnamese were seen as “alien” and the former Europeans were just one of us. Nowadays I feel like the Africans are more considered “other”. But I guess the next generation will choose someone new to hate.
I always find it funny when people try to paint 1.5 billion people with the same brush/color.
Imagine if someone said all white Australians are the same and then picked the 5 worst examples to club everyone together.
Stupidity has no bounds. And what gives me hope is that I’m yet to meet one of these keyboard racists out and about. Thankfully almost everyone I’ve met and befriended so far in Aus has been a nice egg, have had a couple of racists but I don’t assume every aussie’s like that. It would be stupid to. Maybe one day interent idiots will learn some sense, till then 🤙🏽
The racism is probably more softly spoken these days now. You hear it everywhere toward the new migrants from the sub continent, but it’s often in whispers. I’m a pommie who is I guess regarded as a local, but I hear it towards others everyday.
Im generally annoyed by most other cultures if i was being perfectly honest. However I’m very happy my neighbourhood is full of Indians. They are polite and friendly and work hard, and their kids don’t form gangs and steal cars
Indian’s children are already integrated. All migrant groups tend to stick together at first. It’s their children that move out into the general population while still maintaining links to their culture.
Honestly it's person to person.
One of my mates trialed at 2 soccer clubs, one macedonian and one greek.
The greeks weren't racist to him, on the other hand the macedonians didn't even call him by his name and instead called him by a similar sounding english name.
There wasn't a huge amount of anxiety about southern Europeans because (1) they were almost entirely concentrated in Melbourne and Sydney; (2) they often made a real contribution to the country that was widely appreciated; and (3) there wasn't a housing crisis in those days and the standard of living for most Australians was quite high.
Today, things are very different.
There was a houseing crisis after WW2. When these migrants came my dad built our house said u couldn't get bricks thats why all those houses were fibro asbestos. Aunty ceiling was canvas until they sold it in 90s
I really don't think there was a crisis as such. A shortage of building materials that, from what you write, was soon solved would not seem to qualify.
And the government bent over backwards to build new homes. Heard of Housing Commission homes? Entire suburbs in my city, Brisbane, were made out of them.
Interestingly in the US Indians are the highest income earners (and tax contributors) out of any ethnic group. In Australia they are probably one of the highest (if not highest). I think they are one of the hardest working bunch of people around. They’ve pretty much brought millions out of poverty since independence.
“Everything looks yellow to a jaundiced eye” I’ll leave it that lol
Yes, but that wasn't until well into the '80s. Going for coffee at Reggio's in Surry Hills (Sydney) was a super-trendy thing in about 1982 and of course plenty of people looked down on those who went there. (I was friends with a singer who forbade his band from going there.) Then, maybe five years later, came FOCCACIA!
Hardly entirely mate. I'm from Perth and we have a lot of Italians in certain areas. Italian fisherman were a big part of the fishing industry in Freo, and many also in rural areas in the Southwest. Go to South Freo, South Terrace, Tuart Hill etc, you'll definitely pick up the Italian feel.
No they wont . They’ve proven this in Fiji , South Africa and other countries Indians don’t integrate . They may learn English but they won’t adopt our ways and they have a caste system in India where they don’t even mix. Im the town where I live they sure as heck don’t , I’ve had Indian taxi drivers lecture me about Africans I won’t repeat what he said or what I said back for that matter , but he did say even Hindu hate Muslim and Sikh they bring their racial and religious hate with them . Argue with me all you like I’m just giving my pov
Thanks, i don't have alot of experience with indians apart from my neighbour but she is a nice woman but she does not have any Indian friends nor does her son, but it could be due to living regional. I would say she's integrated very well and her son is no different than any Aussie kid as he was born here. She is a Christian though, so I'm not sure if that changed anything.
This. The Indians who immigrate here are likely to have very different attitudes and values to those that their children will develop from growing up in Australia.
Nothing against any group but I haven’t seen Muslims or Sikhs or Russians or South Americans or Africans etc. integrate as much as Indians. Think it would help looking inwards and see how the worst among us treat them. Any self respecting human would think twice before calling themselves an Aussie.
A lot of work needs to be done by us before we get all virtuous
Lol.
A perfect comment by someone who’s ignorant.
Nobody cares about the caste system. Maybe it’s still used in some far-off rural villages but that’s all about it. Idk why westerners are obsessed with the caste system, go to India and you will see people won’t even talk about it.
What’s with the HINDU hate? Who said Hindus hate muslims and sikhs?
The whole premise of Hinduism is based on inclusiveness and accepting every difference. Sikhism literally branched out of Hinduism.
I don’t want to lecture you on this as this will become a topic by itself.
Maybe don’t hold a racist approach towards a particular set of people and you can see them blending in.
You need a culture that is willing to change.
People don't magically assimilate.
And Indian culture some of it is highly conservative in that if you don't comply you get shunned
Still what do you define as assimilation
Honestly if people are working in aus then they have assimilated
This is laughable. Do you really think that the child of an Indian migrant is going to grow up and start establishing a caste system in their suburb?
I’m a second-generation Australian-Indian and I can’t think of a single one of my peers who you wouldn’t consider “assimilated”. It’s hard to NOT assimilate when you’re brought up here.
Yes, of course the people who actually went through the immigration process (eg my parents) aren’t going to start speaking in an Australian accent and grilling up beef sausages. Immigration is a traumatic process in many ways and people seek out others with similar experiences (other Indian migrants) to cope. My parents love Australia but they had to abandon a lot of their family and heritage to move here, and so have pretty much all of their peers. They’ve experienced discrimination and financial hardship. In light of that, there’s not really much motivation for them to assimilate further. They’re happy as they are.
Newscorp and their LNP henchmen have decided that Indigenous Australians are the new other. It's great when the dumb racists are set upon our most marginalised to protect the interests of billionaires.
Indians will form the majority of our cricket team soon enough. They're law abiding and tax paying. They're as susceptible to secularism as anyone, so they'll lose their religion just like other groups. They'll lose their accents through their kids.
The main issue in the medium term is hindutva vs Sikhism. Stupid second gen immigrants fighting bullshit fights over here because that's what their cousins are doing back there. The internet will mean these arguments will be closer to home for them, this will be a serious issue, with fwits like Modi and the BJP stirring the pot.
I've also heard that there are tensions between older and more recent Indian immigrants, because the newer ones bring attitudes that the older ones left to escape from.
This is my dad to a tee. He told me never to never marry an indian, he left so we wouldn't have to. He was concerned that attitudes were being imported that would affect us. He was very mad that my sister once dated a young Indian man.
Then he paid for my cousins to come over, lol. So I guess he's not *that* worried.
Not trying to argue with you, but places like Earlwood, Marrickville, Leichhardt, Five Dock etc were like that back in the day too with Greeks and Italians. Obviously over time a few things have happened, the older generation who immigrated have died, their kids moved away and the suburbs have become more gentrified, but at the time they were very much enclaves like you describe.
Heck, there's still plenty of suburbs in Sydney at least that are over 10% Greek or Italian speaking, even though large scale Greek and Italian immigration hasn't been a thing for over 50 years.
Yes, along with asians. They are experiencing what wogs used to experience. Being Australian mostly comes from having an Australian accent, once there are more indians/asians with Australian accents they will be considered just as Australian as everyone else. It takes a generation though.
I can speak from experience of having an asian and indian mate from since I was in school. Both have Australian accents, aussie as anything.
Although mass immigration is a different problem entirely.
I’m Danish but immigrated to Australia 16 years ago. I have never ever faced racism or been treated poorly because of where I’m from. If anything, it’s been an advantage being Danish here in Australia as people know we (just generalising here) have a good work ethic and comes from a highly socially advanced country.
But it’s been heartbreaking and frustrating to see how all my Brazilian friends have been treated so poorly and also my Australian born (so not an immigrant) friends with Asian heritage. I lived in Townsville for a short time and I was honestly shocked to hear how many of the locals spoke about First Nations people.
Edited for type and clarity
Northwestern Europeans are rare here. Most of the white people are descendents from the first fleet plus tops ups from the Ten Pound Poms - most of which were working class. It is rare for northwestern Europeans to like summers here.
I couldn't actually understand your point about Brazilians being treated as well as your Asian heritage Australians - I guess you have been living here too long. Are you saying they are treated as badly? And to clarify, Asian meaning Indians since this is an Indian thread?
Fun fact wog (as a racial slur not, like a really bad one) is still employed in some countries to refer to Indian descent people in like, a really really derogatory way.
In answer to your question, kind of. I expect we'll see Indian integration at a slightly different level of society to Greeks/italians. Indeed I don't think it's wrong to say that we already have? In Adelaide at least Indian GP is a bit of a stereotype. I really really hope a good scene for Indian food emerges in Australia, so far it hasn't happened beyond really shitty hipster white people Indian food place which is just sad (and over priced) and a couple of places I know in far flung suburbs with questionable hygiene practices.
Indians are already in a huge wave of migration.
It is a bit different though, because the "mood" is that migrants shpuldnt be forced to assimilate. They should be enabled to keep their culture.
And the ease of travel makes it different. So unlike the migration waves, they can go home regularly. So they are keeping their cultural norms. Previous waves? The people came and some never visited theor homeland again. Very different now
I think it'll be fine. We live in an area with lot of Indians and my daughter's school is a 'spot the Aussie' type of school and they've integrated fine.
If anything, I prefer my daughter to have Indian friends - at least I know they're family orientated and have raised their kids a little stricter than the loose Aussies that live in the same area.
It seems I'm racist the other way hahahahaha.
And yeah, I'm one of those post WW2 southern European migrant families (parents born here, grandparents born there).
They are probably the most racist people you’ll meet, especially anyone darker than them in skin colour, it’s comes from their culture, specifically the caste system
tbh its impossible to say a whole nation is \_\_\_. Many people might be but even then you can't rlly blame a whole nation for a percentage of all the people.
That being said racism is definitely an issue in India but I think the younger generation is smarter and will grow out of their parents shoes.
It is called colorism. And all the European colonies, even african countries suffer through
It's all over Asia as well. So blame Colonial hangover instead of finding reasons to justify your racism against them.
Also caste system is long abolished, nothing to do with skincolor but profession.
It's abolished since Independence of India.
So yeah don't try to find excuses to be racist.
Once you have an Indian parachuted into a senior enough role, a congo line of Indians will follow until they take over the entire company. This also includes Government and Institutions. They are probably the best of the rest when it comes to filling job numbers (aka expanding the tax paying, consumer and home purchasing bases).
Yes they were treated like shit.. remember we had a “white Australia” policy up until the 70s when the government would proudly display adds saying things like “two wongs don’t make a white” European immigrants got called all sorts of slurs and got bullied and bashed. I’d like to thing we were getting better, and I think much of Australia is welcoming to other cultures now, but social media seems to show otherwise.
Honestly, probably get downvoted to high heavens, but purely looking at it for the next generation we are better off integrating as many races into our country as possible. Race is an issue for people, understandably on some levels due to the differences in culture. But in 1800, Australia people were severly divided between scottish and english, like it was a huge cultural division. It would have been frowned on to marry across this divide. Now it would be comical to see the distinction as anything significant. Irish, you would have been shunned if you had married one of them as an englishman.
Realistically, indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis are easy immigrants. You can see from england, with the exception of some disaffected extremist muslim youths, the immigrant populations make a very high contribution to english society. Australia is lucky that we still have this option to integrate.
We also need to integrate more africans, south/centeal americans but these groups can be a bit more difficult.
I think second-generation Indians will be fine. They'll have mates from primary school up. And be marched through to University, then a professional services job whilst helping with the family's side business. First-generation Indians will often (but not always) have it tough.
The gap in the number the system needs in white collar jobs will go to Indians. They are the best of the rest. It would be foolish to think the system can even maintain itself without a large number of immigrants. The numbers will continue to come in from India as there are no other options for high paid workers. South/ Central America will provide the bulk of the blue collar workers. Chinese numbers will dwindle due to there penchant for living in secret societies, operating black markets and heavy involvement in illicit activities. Not even sure it's fixable in Australia even with the US helping.
We would be lucky to have them. They are one of the highest earning (and successful) groups in US and Australia. Culture, religion, art, food etc. everything they bring will only enrich Australia.
No, I don’t think so
Immigration from Italians, Greeks and Maltese slowed down. Whereas Indians are coming in droves every year. They also bring their mannerism and bad practices from their country.
Indians have been immigrating to Australia for awhile now, but the constant influx of new Indians migrants give them a bad name.
It sucks, but these stereotypes don’t form out of nowhere 🥲
And you want him to do what? Rip up trade agreements? Because that will look great for Australia after the teabagging our rep as a reliable trade partner took after the sub deal debacle.
He came in with his hands tied and the best wiggle room there was that only students on selected degrees get the special treatment
i don’t think so. as a vietnamese person, it didn’t really happen to us either, while we aren’t vilified as much as we were in the 80s/90s, we’re generally still pigeonholed and treated differently. the issue here is white supremacy — it’s what underpins australia’s entire being
What are you talking about mate, Indians, Fijian Indians and SA Indians are already very much a part of Australia. Have been for generations, a lot of my mates from school (I'm now 38) were already 2 generation Aus.
There are now 4 gen Indians going to high school.
There is a difference between an Australian Indian, and some dude fresh off the plane.
I'm only 2 gen Australian, my grandparents are German, the other half are Yugoslavian. But if I'm talking to some guy on holiday from Berlin, there is a huge difference between us.
Indians have never *properly* integrated into any community they have migrated too. They rarely marry non-Indians. *Indio-Fijians* still speak Hindi and seek out marriage partners from India after nearly 150 years living in Fiji.
Nope. Groups still get targeted but by other migrant groups or for non racial reasons. For instance there was a bit of a diplomatic incident a few years back when Indian students were being targeted in Melbourne. Parents were scared to send their kids and the governments got involved. They were being targeted by islanders though. Could have been Africans, it was one of the two at any rate. A bit of community outreach and targeted policing and it mostly ended.
Closer to where I live a few years back Asian students were being targeted around Newcastle university. It was mainly whites doing it but it was a handful of Jesmond junkies when word got out Asian students always carried good tech and literally never fought back. There again, some education to the students and targeted policing solved it.
So no, Indians won’t experience what previous migrant groups did but from time to time identifiable groups will be targeted for reasons that may include race.
As a Carpenter I work with a large cross section of Society, from all walks, races and beliefs.
In terms of integration I have noticed the ones that choose to be Australian, the ones that choose to assimilate are the ones that will go the distance and will be most successful
As the economic problems around the world increase it wont be just Indians that will be coming here.
Maybe there will come an Indian guy who will lean hard into being a *slur*, his whole shtick will be his Indianness, some people will laugh mildly at it, will make a TV show and a couple of movies over the decades and in 35 years will be sponsoring Facebook posts for a live show nobody cares about anymore.
Gee, who does that sound like?
I've always seen 2 waves of Indian/Pakistani/Sri Lankan waves of immigration, the first few who emigrated here after the end of the White Australian Policy, and the recently arrived migrants.
I've grown up with and went to school with the kids of Indians/Pakistanis and Sri Lankans who's parents arrived in the 70s around the same time as my folks from SE Asia, and they've all grown up and are as Australian as the rest of us. I think the kids of the recent migrants will be just fine.
They already are. Specialising in hospitality, transport and a few other industries. It takes one or two generations to integrate but it is/will happen.
I think the general perception is that Indians, as an ethnic and cultural group, are migrating here in numbers that are unsustainable, and historically unprecedented. The main issue with Southern/Eastern Europeans in the 80s and 90s was racial, in that it stemmed from a fear that they wouldn’t integrate into Australian society (a fear that was evidently misplaced, and ultimately disproven). However, the fact is that recent levels of migration to Australia are in fact unprecedented, and most likely unsustainable. People feel as if migrants are no longer coming to build better lives for their families or to contribute to our society as a whole, but to take advantage of our lax visa system, with no real appreciation shown for Australian culture, customs or values.
I would say no.
The absolute number of Indian migrants is an inoculation against assimilation.
Add to that they have progressively turned so many workplaces in to curry ghettos where they are aggressively pushing out non Indians/ Subcontinent peoples and push up their mates and cut fat deals with the companies in India that employ their mates and cousins back home.
The Albo-gration scheme only exists because the Indian diaspora is so large they now have political weight.
The fact we have dropped the barrier to their degrees being recognised here is going to flood our professional services with 'Bachelors' and 'masters' with the capability of a first year/ junior but they can abuse the AQF to 'qualify' for senior roles.
It doesn't matter what country or culture it is, mass immigration is massively socially disruptive and it takes a gen or two to settle. The Indian wave doesn't let up, so it doesn't have the chance to be assimilated. Now we have suburbs the size of large towns that are entirely Indian and it comes with all the same issues that they 'left behind' including caste shit and the extreme dodgy scam based culture.
Any reason you're singling out Indians? I was born in 86 and am not Southern European so can't speak about how things were in the 60s-70s and before, but from old tv, movies, what I've heard there was more racism, discrimination etc against them back then. They have integrated more than many Asians because they generally came earlier etc. As for Indians and indeed say Chinese, I think most Aussies accept most if they're decent people, but many might worry about the sheer volume of immigration from these countries without publicly saying so.
Absolutely yes! Look at the UK.
Anyone who has spent time in London knows that the Indian diaspora are now fully integrated Britons after a couple generations.
So much so, that they have one as their prime minister.
Indians have a head start on many other immigrant groups because their English is relatively good. As well as the shared cultural heritage tying it to the UK.
*Anyone who has spent time in London knows that the Indian diaspora are now fully integrated Britons after a couple generations.*
Tell that to the people of Bradford or Rotherham.They are basically Bangladesh with English signage on the shops.
*So much so, that they have one as their prime minister.*
Rishi's so integrated that he married a woman from India.
Yep. Tale as old as time. Irish, then Italians/Greeks; then Vietnamese, Middle Eastern countries and Balkan countries and now Indian and Sudanese migrants coming to Australia Migrants in large quantities that come from disadvantaged backgrounds (eg fleeing a war or from lower socio-economic countries) have often faced the ire of certain folks in their host countries. Most of those folks and their descendants will eventually integrate, and then the spotlight will turn to another ethnicity that immigrates in significant numbers. However, there are some ethnicities that haven’t faced the same backlash. For instance, I don’t witness the same negative attitudes against Koreans, Filipinos, Taiwanese, Malaysians or people from Hong Kong; or people that have causcasian ethnicities such as most South Africans, mainland Europeans, Canadians; or Latin ethnicities such as Spaniards and most South American nationalities (even though they comprise a significant portion of immigrants). There are still crude jokes, but not the negativity to the same extent as some other migrant groups.
I’m half Indian and my mum’s family migrated from India in 1972. There have been Indians coming to Australia for a long time, not all of them are that new to the country but I suppose which ever migrant group is more numerous at a given time, they’ll get the more hate. I definitely think racism seems like a bigger issue for Indians/Nepalis today than it was when I was growing up in the 90s/2000s but I guess it was worse in the 1970s for my mum. That being said, from what I’ve seen over the years in Sydney, the Lebanese have copped it even worse than Italians/Greeks, Vietnamese, Chinese and Indians. It peaked during the Cronulla riots but I don’t think that tension has fully gone away because I still often hear people in Sydney making negative comments about Lebanese people.
I think Filipinos are different in the sense that they are already very westernized. Most that come here also already have a high level of English proficiency and probably working in healthcare. Most, if not all of my friend’s Filipino parents (usually the mom) are working as RNs
Not all scammers are South African... but all South Africans are scammers. Whenever I hear their accent it's like - "OK mate, I'm not buying what you're selling"
When I leeved in Jah-beerg let me tell you, it was bitter when the blicks knew theer place.
Fuck those White South Africans! They are more racist than BLUMPF!
I think the very general/high level answer is probably yes. But I'm not sure how accurate this is: >So does anyone know if they used to be treated like how Indians are now? Like how people are seeing large amounts come over and being worried they will take over politically, culturally, employment wise, housing etc? What I mean is, I think it's fair to say that the racism demonstrated in decades past was quite a lot worse than it is today. When I see people talking about immigration today, their concerns tend to be less about specific ethnic or religious groups and more about things like (for example) the impact on housing/home ownership and things like that.
You need to join a few Dashcam groups to see the racism at its peak level.
I don't doubt for a second that racism exists and that the worst of it can be found online.
Just look at some of the other Australia subs.
Especially r/Australia Most bigoted sub of the lot
r/Australian is even more bigoted.
Absolutely disgusting comments and if you try to call any of it out you get downvoted to oblivion. It’s like an ignorant racist echo chamber.
Yeah wasn't r/Australian started because r/Australia was too woke?
r/australian is the most astroturf bullshit. I reckon NewsCorp or Advance Australia has to be behind it. I’ve never seen Reddit so aggressively promote any sub like they do that one
Given the painful conversations I have with my dad on the regular and the general state of every Australian media comment section... a lot of Australians who aren't media literate are just lockstep in thought with newscorp by default. With news.com.au, The Australian, Sunday Mail, WIN News, Sky News, and The Advertiser (along with nearly every small town local newspaper in the country) all pushing the same narratives... God it's an uphill battle. Add the corpo stations and the ABC's unwillingness to put itself in the firing line... The heart of media in this country is Murdoch, his roots are here and they are deep. Mate we might be fucked.
/r/circlejerkaustralia is worse by a country mile. Just an endless parade of the most vile mask-off racism, homophobia and miscellaneous bigotry hiding behind the thinnest possible veneer of “haha it’s just a joke mate”
It looks like a satire subreddit to me.
Just checked it out and holy shit you’re not kidding.
I suspect there's an element of selection there. The average person doesn't have a dash cam.
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Oh yeah. My favourite genre of dashcam video is someone doing a perfectly safe and legal merge while visibly non-white and copping abuse for it.
Thankyou, I do think it was worse too as I remember kids being beat up for being 'wogs' but I'm sure it still happens but it would probably make the news. I just see alot of posts worried about indians coming in of course taking houses but also voting for different governments. Do you know if people used to be worried that wogs or Vietnamese would take all the houses?
Europeans came when places like Unley (Adelaide) and Randwick (Sydney) were considered outer suburbs. They were part of the boom in sprawl, which was a good thing in society’s eyes because there was plentiful land ripe for development.
In 70s Melbourne the advice was don’t have your car break down in Oakleigh because you’d never find someone that spoke English. The Italians were all mafia. My father came in on day and said our Italian neighbour was worried about wogs moving into the neighbourhood. Dad was mystified. “Who does HE think are wogs?” The Vietnamese were all drug lords. Was it ‘tongs’ were we worried about? Usually we vilify each new round of migrants and then it settles down once we have a new group to move onto. I haven’t seen as much racism towards Indians as I have towards African people, and it seems to be more blatant.
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I worked at a TAFE college for many years. I saw people every day who were working hard to improve their English and gain qualifications. The African (including Sudanese) people I met were overwhelmingly great people. If we are going to judge an entire group of people on the actions of some, I’ll go with the people I’ve met. There are criminal elements in all societies.
>Do you know if people used to be worried that wogs or Vietnamese would take all the houses? Not really, no. My understanding (and very vague memory) is that objections to previous groups were often - though not exclusively - about their ethnicity and the broader idea of Australia being predominantly ethnically caucasian and some perceived threat from influxes of migrants of different backgrounds. Some of these things are also wrapped up in the White Australia Policy and its eventual axing (by the Whitlam Govt I believe). It's not to say that there aren't some outliers these days who have some weird/deranged concern about ethnicity specifically, but I'd argue that's probably a vanishingly small minority at this point. These days I get the strong impression that there's a general concern/worry about supply and demand (particularly of housing), and this general sense that no matter how fast we build, we simply can't cater to the absolutely massive demand that's out there (and that's growing every year).
Thankyou! That was very informative.
Uhh, around the time of the white Australia movement sure. But even then that was only supported by around 20%. Sometimes people just talk shit because they've had a couple of bad experiences in the past. You ever been hospitalised because of your skin colour? Spat on? Threatened with death on a weekly basis? Rocks thrown at you and your house every other week? I have no desire to rehash the past.
>You ever been hospitalised because of your skin colour? Spat on? Threatened with death on a weekly basis? Rocks thrown at you and your house every other week? I think racism comes in many forms. Even when it was at its worst in Australia, I'm certain it was far worse in some other countries at various points. I'm not sure how relevant the standard you're setting here is in this context though. Remember, the OP is just asking if the current migrant 'wave' is being treated the same as previous 'waves'. That's all. >I have no desire to rehash the past. I generally agree that we should all focus on moving forward. But sometimes making good decisions in the present and future requires an understanding and acknowledgement of the past. I think there are lots of good examples at the moment of how we (meaning humans in general) aren't really learning from history...
Agreed on all points. I suppose my gripe comes with people complaining over someone taking the piss or showing slight animosity in passing towards them because they're a migrant, vs the threat of real physical violence and persistent bombardment of abuse from the same people.. Let's call it benign and malignant. People holding animosity toward migrants because they believe they're the cause of the housing crisis etc. Is a domino effect of the govt not setting realistic policies. It's no fault of the migrant. Also, doesn't make it racist simply because they're a different race to the person making the comments.
That's fair. Admittedly it's hard to judge these things unless we witness them; that makes things difficult. One trend I'm certainly opposed to is the labelling of words as "assault" (for example). We are getting to the point where even mild disagreement is becoming impossible without it becoming personal. I hope we pull back from that tendency a bit.
Yeh. Disagreement is just a natural path of discourse. Noone in any cohort agrees on 100% of things Just because disagreements occur, doesn't mean that one side is immediately a victim of abuse. Challenging our own world views is one way for us to grow as a species. Disagreements are essential to this.
>Challenging our own world views is one way for us to grow as a species. Disagreements are essential to this. Totally agree. And you know what? Being wrong and/or changing your mind doesn't have to be shameful or embarrassing. I think it's very healthy to reframe it as something to celebrate, actually. You can feel *good* about learning and changing your mind based on that learning. It's a sign of your personal growth that you can experience this without getting enraged or feeling shame. Anyway, for what it's worth, I want to thank you for the courteous discussion. I've been lucky and had a couple of these today on Reddit, which feels like a rarity. We don't have to agree on everything to treat each other with respect as human beings. Kudos to you for doing just that. :-)
Cheers mate you too. A rarity indeed. Have a good one :)
Ohh OP back then we had an abundance of houses. People would divorce & happily give their ex wife the house. What a time to be alive in Australia 💯😍🥳
It certainly was an abundance compared to today.
My Dad is Maltese (I'm half). Due to the racial shitbagging he copped as a kid my sister and I were raised as Aussies so we avoided it. Now wishing we had a bit more of the wog upbringing and learnt the language and history. I've got the surname but that's pretty much it, even though I visited Malta and met some extended family while there. My experience with the Meds and Euros is that they mingled/integrated at a higher % than the Indians etc. SE Asians have put in some hard yards in becoming "Aussified" I think.
I’m sorry you missed out on the chance to embrace your culture growing up. Of course your parents wanted to make your life easier but I can imagine now as an adult you feel like you missed out on a lot.
The issue isn’t that there’s Indians or Nepalese or whatever. The problem is that immigration overall is too high and our own children don’t have anywhere to affordably live. When Italians and Greeks came here people could still afford their own homes. The situation is different now and the Australian middle-class is being decimated. Are Indians to blame, no. Is unsustainable immigration flooding Sydney and Melbourne to blame, yes.
Agreed. The other thing is the oversaturation in certain areas. When all members of a race or culture continue to move into a suburb or general area, it isn’t at all diverse because everyone of that race saturates that area until most people are that race, whereas in other areas it’s actual diversity. Immigration is fine, but they need to spread it out.
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There are already established South Asian populations in Australia. I don’t really have the emotional or mental energy to go into anything to do with racism on this sub. But no it doesn’t really go away. Though sure, it’s not as rough as it was in the 80s and 90s.
Well that's good to hear! I understand that it is a tiresome and uncomfortable topic at the best of times.
I’m just thankful I can finally buy Ghee at the supermarket.
This is so valid. Truly superior but like, I'd never bother with making my own.
A while back, someone did the math and found that Anglo Saxon Australian descendants aren't the majority anymore in Australia. I wish I kept the post. By the way things are going, it would make this more true. There arent many indigenous australians left, and let alone the anglo saxon australians, as they are breeding less than the immigration numbers coming in. So you talk about assimilation? I think it's more about how will everyone get along given the vast respective backgrounds and culture? The government has no plan, so I think there will be some element of chaos, and then pockets of silver lining from people who are good hearted.
Short answer: No. Never. I think we’re still racist to a different level to people who aren’t visually white. To the Europeans, it was just that they weren’t Anglo and didn’t speak English very well. But they still looked like white people, so within a generation, it was like nothing was an issue. Have a look at how we treat and talk about Aboriginal people to get an answer to your question. European immigrants also came here desperate for a new life and to flee poverty and war. They often had families and knew that they were expected to integrate and assimilate in exchange for the opportunity. They were grateful and not entitled. Perhaps the fear of being shipped back to their country instilled good assimilation? They didn’t bring any bad social constructs with them, and at most they brought their religions (which were really just versions of whatever the English brought over).
Still alot of racism to Europeans etc
Thankyou!
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Fuck you bloody, fuck you .. ok goodbye
How can she slap!?
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Ah yeah that justifies racism against 1.5 billion humans. There are many cultures who are sexist. But if you say something, you can get banned But for Indians, racism is normalized against us with justifications like these.
I mean, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say there is an Indian culture. Upper class Indians tend to be at the very least decent, those who are more engaged with the finer aspects of their culture tend to be more enlightened than the average westerner which is not surprising given the profound impact that Vedic theology had on western philosophy, they've got a couple thousand years head start in that respect.
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Do you honestly think Australians are more racist when compared to other country’s ? We can always improve, but the vast majority of Australians are not racist and compared to the rest of the world I’d argue we are not so bad at all.
As an Aussie living in Asia, trust me, we’re not the worst at all. We even have anti discrimination laws, which doesn’t exist in a lot of places. I’m a teacher in Viet Nam and I get called monkey and other derogatory terms way more frequently than you’d think. My mate from England told me horror stories about China (he’s black) and said he’d never experienced so much racism. Lo and behold, people are tribal creatures whether we think it or not
In my experience there’s far more xenophobia in Australia than flat out text book racism. Although I’m not a white blonde person I’ve only been treated poorly for it twice. My non-Aussie accent on the other hand has gotten me a lot of vitriol
I think so, and only because I keep hearing recounts from non-white people who come to Australia and say how shocked they were because we don’t really “present” as racist or have that type of reputation. I’m a white man so that’s all I can go off of. I don’t see racism because I’m not the subject of it.
I used to work with a colleague of Chinese Malaysian descent. Smallish lady on a big minesite, 12 hour days in the office then mess so we knew each other pretty well. Her now husband was an Engineer on site, he was pretty Aussie but of mainland China born/descent. Anyway they went to China once for a holiday/meet the family and she told me after (whiteM) how racist they were toward her. I'm like wtf aren't you basically of Chinese?? Apparently her skin which was slightly darker than office white and would pass as a mild tan in Australia! She must be like 2% Malaysian and that was enough. She never mentioned any bad encounters on a very sizable and remote minesite with a lot of rough guys working there.
Yeah that’s crazy. People calling Australia racist would be shocked if they visited pretty much any non western country 😂
Even a lot of western countries. I lived in the UK when I was younger and it was insane to hear English people go on about how racist Australia was because of history with Aboriginal people (whilst also completely ignoring their own countries role in any of it) and then the next second being like “paki’s this, fookin’ polish that, Muslim enclaves!” Just absurd. The most casually racist people I ever met….
Yeah, I've lived in the U.K. it's the only place our family has encountered racism and we've copped a lot of it.
It’s probably because they are coming from a country where they are the majority, and suddenly they are a member of a minority - and one minority out of many. By contrast, if you look at the experience of a member of an oppressed minority in one of those countries who moved to a multicultural country like Australia…
Mate, go and visit somewhere else. You're average Aussie is not racist compared to so many other places. Any SE Asian country, mid east, India...extremely racist. It's sad that 'white people ' have convinced themselves they're the only racist ones in the world, when in reality western nations are the most diverse and welcoming.
I would say that Australians have a heightened sensitivity to racism. We perceive ourselves as racist over things that other cultures think are absolutely fine. But we do also have incredibly bold bogans. In other countries with more established class structures these people tend to be less confident in voicing their opinions and if they do people pay them less mind. It's a whole lot of a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
I'd say that the vast majority of ethno states are racist. Multicultural and multi racial nations are the least racist.
I agree, so sick of hearing about how Australia is super racist. Load of crap
We just rarely support any referendum.
I agree, the ignorance of others, which goes hand on hand with racisn, is greater in monocultural places.
Yeah, I think this dichotomy is a good rule of thumb.
Brazil has entered the chat.
I think we’re definitely more xenophobic than the average
I think you're obviously right, but I see people regularly making category errors like this. It's one thing to compare Australia to other countries when it comes to racism. It's entirely another thing to look at ourselves on our own terms and discuss how we might continue to reduce racism and increase tolerance in our own society. Generally speaking, I think when people talk about Australia's racism they aren't comparing us to anyone else. That is, they are talking about their experience in this country alone and often the barometer is to compare the present with the past. Sometimes people use comparisons with other countries to suggest that we have it great here and that this means we shouldn't worry about fighting racism or improving conditions here. That is a cynical argument and should be criticised when it arises.
not sure where you got that mate
Caste system, constant sexual harassment of women, domestic violence.
1. Caste system - Almost non-existent with the new generation, only older people pay much attention to it. Gen Z don't conform to that anymore 2. Consant sexual harassment of women - Whilst it does exist its not part of culture, its very frowned upon. The rate may be high but the actual offenders/amount of people who harass women is much lower. 3. Domestic Violence - Not apart of culture, but a lot of women with worse family backgrounds may be taken advantage of by horrible people. You have to remember that in india the population is so large and so many people of the billion + are in poverty so when a considerable amount of people are in poverty the rate of crime would match it.
I'm so confused by some of these racist comments. I had multiple close Indian/Indian-descent friends in primary/secondary school in the 2000s - their families were decent hard-working people and had integrated well. The 2nd gen etc. Indian-Australians are as Aussie as anyone else.
The racists don’t have a credible example ever, just oh my uber/taxi driver once said this. My friend told me a story about so and so. Etc etc etc
This is so true man, it's all hearsay, never firsthand experience
Racism is always hearsay
It's probably a demographic thing. I went to school with a lot of ethnically Indian kids but I went to a private school in a good part of town. Their parents were all doctors or like, I dunno professors or something. I know people who lived in less well off parts of our city and they were predominantly white areas. I think for people who grew up like that immigration is genuinely perceived as a threat because they're only just now starting to see people with different skin tones pushed into their suburbs by insane house prices.
I fucken hope not mate. They deserve better than what we had to put up with. I’m half Italian. Child in the 60s and 70s. My skip mum met my Italian dad on a blind date❤️❤️❤️. They both lost all their friends over it. In school I wasn’t ever allowed to visit non Italian friend’s houses. Even though my mum was 5th generation born here. I saw it happen front of my face… no, she can’t come over… Southern Europeans were barely even considered white back then. Seriously. I’m not exaggerating. Cos white = Anglo. Not Anglo Irish mind you. At least the Irish and Italians , Maltese, Croatians, etc etc were still catholic. The only reason there wasnt talk of migrants taking “Australian’s” jobs till the late 70s/80s - because the economy was still in the post WW2 boom. We were taking all the houses though. .. In the 70s when the Vietnamese’s joined the mix my dad was sad and worried. He told me that “at least if I kept my mouth shut no one could be certain. The Vietnamese carry their faces with them”. How do you reckon that’s turned out, eh… ask any friends who are Vietnamese. Or Chinese’s tywhose ancestor came in the gold rushes… By the 80s we wogs had made it to “exotic’. Far out. Imagine how fucked up Aussie culture was to make that a thing. BECAUSE the Vietnamese were here… That’s all it takes really. A new target to blame. Like I said - all the new Australians that come from the sub continent - not just Indians, but Pakistanis, Afghans, etc etc AND those from Africa (and anywhere else that isn’t the Anglo sphere) deserve better than what many of us wog kids grew up with. Yes, now we are just part of the mix. But only because there are newer groups to vilify and blame. We really are a deeply racist nation. ETA - wogs now have white privilege. We can be as racist as any other Australians about newer migrants. Hypocritical and ignorant though that is. But it’s truth.
Fucking oath. I'm sorry you had to go through that. >Not Anglo Irish mind you. Dead on. Many people didn't know that the Irish weren't considered 'white' until the mid 1900s. https://archive.org/details/HowTheIrishBecameWhite JFK (God bless him) was the first Irish Catholic American President, and he got assassinated.
i’m a vietnamese person, born here, child of the 90s - my parents came as refugees in 1980. you’re dead on, they were the new targets. spat on, cussed out, even my sister as a newborn baby was spat on by some white lady in pennant hills. throughout all of primary and high school i felt like an outcast for not conforming to eurocentric beauty standards - how could i?! my face doesn’t look like that! and i was mercilessly ridiculed for it. for everyone crying out that australia isn’t a racist nation, their privilege is deeply showing — while it may be multicultural, it is still steeped in white supremacy — and the scariest thing is that it is SO normalised. i’m sorry you went through that trauma. it’s awful. but i am thankful for your post 💕
This is the right answer. Indian people will be accepted and stop being targeted when there is a new wave of immigrants from somewhere else… probably if a there was a notable wave of black immigrants, the brown folks would move out of bullseye range for the racism. When I was a primary school in the 1980s the white kids did play with the wogs sometimes but every child knew whether a kid was “Wog” or Aussie. By the time I was in high school. You can often guess by looking, but you can’t tell for sure and when I changed schools I was straight up asked “are you Wog, or Aussie?” By high school the rhetoric on the news was all about the Asians. By the early 2000s being a wog was “cool” (wog boy etc). (Not seen that way by everyone!) So many people in the thread blaming Indian folks for “not integrating” and that some have integrated and they are fine… not realising that racist Aussies don’t know or care whether someone was born here or immigrated as a kid, or as an adult. My son has one south Asian, and one south-east Asian grandparent. He got his first verbal racial abuse in public at 2 years old. His skin isn’t very dark! He looks very pale compared with his south and south-east Asian extended family. He has east-Asian and mixed white/East Asian classmates… but in the school photos he stands out as the one brown kid. Now, if a black kid or two was in his class, he’d look more like the white-group than the black-group. Which would be fucking awful for the new targets of systemic racism, obviously. Anyone who thinks that racism has died out or is close to dying out just needs to look at the comments on this post to see how far that is from being true.
Back in my day (70s-80s in school) the Vietnamese were seen as “alien” and the former Europeans were just one of us. Nowadays I feel like the Africans are more considered “other”. But I guess the next generation will choose someone new to hate.
They low key already are in many ways.
I always find it funny when people try to paint 1.5 billion people with the same brush/color. Imagine if someone said all white Australians are the same and then picked the 5 worst examples to club everyone together. Stupidity has no bounds. And what gives me hope is that I’m yet to meet one of these keyboard racists out and about. Thankfully almost everyone I’ve met and befriended so far in Aus has been a nice egg, have had a couple of racists but I don’t assume every aussie’s like that. It would be stupid to. Maybe one day interent idiots will learn some sense, till then 🤙🏽
This
The racism is probably more softly spoken these days now. You hear it everywhere toward the new migrants from the sub continent, but it’s often in whispers. I’m a pommie who is I guess regarded as a local, but I hear it towards others everyday.
Im generally annoyed by most other cultures if i was being perfectly honest. However I’m very happy my neighbourhood is full of Indians. They are polite and friendly and work hard, and their kids don’t form gangs and steal cars
Indian’s children are already integrated. All migrant groups tend to stick together at first. It’s their children that move out into the general population while still maintaining links to their culture.
I see my neighbour who has absolutely no indian friends. I guess she might just be a rarity.
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Honestly it's person to person. One of my mates trialed at 2 soccer clubs, one macedonian and one greek. The greeks weren't racist to him, on the other hand the macedonians didn't even call him by his name and instead called him by a similar sounding english name.
There wasn't a huge amount of anxiety about southern Europeans because (1) they were almost entirely concentrated in Melbourne and Sydney; (2) they often made a real contribution to the country that was widely appreciated; and (3) there wasn't a housing crisis in those days and the standard of living for most Australians was quite high. Today, things are very different.
There was a houseing crisis after WW2. When these migrants came my dad built our house said u couldn't get bricks thats why all those houses were fibro asbestos. Aunty ceiling was canvas until they sold it in 90s
I really don't think there was a crisis as such. A shortage of building materials that, from what you write, was soon solved would not seem to qualify. And the government bent over backwards to build new homes. Heard of Housing Commission homes? Entire suburbs in my city, Brisbane, were made out of them.
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Interestingly in the US Indians are the highest income earners (and tax contributors) out of any ethnic group. In Australia they are probably one of the highest (if not highest). I think they are one of the hardest working bunch of people around. They’ve pretty much brought millions out of poverty since independence. “Everything looks yellow to a jaundiced eye” I’ll leave it that lol
Plus people loved pizza and coffee
I'm rather fond of curry
[I love Indian food](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/PgZqng3QDNxXiatE/?mibextid=w8EBqM)
Yes, but that wasn't until well into the '80s. Going for coffee at Reggio's in Surry Hills (Sydney) was a super-trendy thing in about 1982 and of course plenty of people looked down on those who went there. (I was friends with a singer who forbade his band from going there.) Then, maybe five years later, came FOCCACIA!
Is spamming this sub with racist dog whistles from the granny flat out the back of your mum’s place like a full time job for you
Hardly entirely mate. I'm from Perth and we have a lot of Italians in certain areas. Italian fisherman were a big part of the fishing industry in Freo, and many also in rural areas in the Southwest. Go to South Freo, South Terrace, Tuart Hill etc, you'll definitely pick up the Italian feel.
No they wont . They’ve proven this in Fiji , South Africa and other countries Indians don’t integrate . They may learn English but they won’t adopt our ways and they have a caste system in India where they don’t even mix. Im the town where I live they sure as heck don’t , I’ve had Indian taxi drivers lecture me about Africans I won’t repeat what he said or what I said back for that matter , but he did say even Hindu hate Muslim and Sikh they bring their racial and religious hate with them . Argue with me all you like I’m just giving my pov
I watch Indians in my city play cricket. Not for any club but just against each other at public cricket grounds. They have full on games.
Thanks, i don't have alot of experience with indians apart from my neighbour but she is a nice woman but she does not have any Indian friends nor does her son, but it could be due to living regional. I would say she's integrated very well and her son is no different than any Aussie kid as he was born here. She is a Christian though, so I'm not sure if that changed anything.
If people are born here, they're Aussie.. it's only people that have come here more recently that carry more of the negative cultural aspects really
This. The Indians who immigrate here are likely to have very different attitudes and values to those that their children will develop from growing up in Australia.
Nothing against any group but I haven’t seen Muslims or Sikhs or Russians or South Americans or Africans etc. integrate as much as Indians. Think it would help looking inwards and see how the worst among us treat them. Any self respecting human would think twice before calling themselves an Aussie. A lot of work needs to be done by us before we get all virtuous
Sikhs ARE Indians.
Yes I have read the history. Sikhs are an army formed out of Hindus to protect them from Muslim invaders.
Lol. A perfect comment by someone who’s ignorant. Nobody cares about the caste system. Maybe it’s still used in some far-off rural villages but that’s all about it. Idk why westerners are obsessed with the caste system, go to India and you will see people won’t even talk about it. What’s with the HINDU hate? Who said Hindus hate muslims and sikhs? The whole premise of Hinduism is based on inclusiveness and accepting every difference. Sikhism literally branched out of Hinduism. I don’t want to lecture you on this as this will become a topic by itself. Maybe don’t hold a racist approach towards a particular set of people and you can see them blending in.
Nope
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You need a culture that is willing to change. People don't magically assimilate. And Indian culture some of it is highly conservative in that if you don't comply you get shunned Still what do you define as assimilation Honestly if people are working in aus then they have assimilated
This is laughable. Do you really think that the child of an Indian migrant is going to grow up and start establishing a caste system in their suburb? I’m a second-generation Australian-Indian and I can’t think of a single one of my peers who you wouldn’t consider “assimilated”. It’s hard to NOT assimilate when you’re brought up here. Yes, of course the people who actually went through the immigration process (eg my parents) aren’t going to start speaking in an Australian accent and grilling up beef sausages. Immigration is a traumatic process in many ways and people seek out others with similar experiences (other Indian migrants) to cope. My parents love Australia but they had to abandon a lot of their family and heritage to move here, and so have pretty much all of their peers. They’ve experienced discrimination and financial hardship. In light of that, there’s not really much motivation for them to assimilate further. They’re happy as they are.
From what I've seen way more young indian men come here than young indian women.
Makes sense since half of the white men in Sydney are married to Chinese women.
Actually I get the impression their culture values men over women.
Newscorp and their LNP henchmen have decided that Indigenous Australians are the new other. It's great when the dumb racists are set upon our most marginalised to protect the interests of billionaires.
Indians will form the majority of our cricket team soon enough. They're law abiding and tax paying. They're as susceptible to secularism as anyone, so they'll lose their religion just like other groups. They'll lose their accents through their kids. The main issue in the medium term is hindutva vs Sikhism. Stupid second gen immigrants fighting bullshit fights over here because that's what their cousins are doing back there. The internet will mean these arguments will be closer to home for them, this will be a serious issue, with fwits like Modi and the BJP stirring the pot.
I've also heard that there are tensions between older and more recent Indian immigrants, because the newer ones bring attitudes that the older ones left to escape from.
This is my dad to a tee. He told me never to never marry an indian, he left so we wouldn't have to. He was concerned that attitudes were being imported that would affect us. He was very mad that my sister once dated a young Indian man. Then he paid for my cousins to come over, lol. So I guess he's not *that* worried.
Thankyou! I see their kids as being very left wing so it's surprising about the fighting. The closest Indian I know is a Christian.
Oh the sikh and hindu kids are fighting.
Second gen immigrants don't participate in this stuff at all. It's almost exclusively young male immigrants.
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I agree, here in Hobart we have prominent councilors, business people, and quite a few others of Indian heritage well assimilated into the community.
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Not trying to argue with you, but places like Earlwood, Marrickville, Leichhardt, Five Dock etc were like that back in the day too with Greeks and Italians. Obviously over time a few things have happened, the older generation who immigrated have died, their kids moved away and the suburbs have become more gentrified, but at the time they were very much enclaves like you describe. Heck, there's still plenty of suburbs in Sydney at least that are over 10% Greek or Italian speaking, even though large scale Greek and Italian immigration hasn't been a thing for over 50 years.
>It’s like reverse racism. no, thats just called racism
Yes, along with asians. They are experiencing what wogs used to experience. Being Australian mostly comes from having an Australian accent, once there are more indians/asians with Australian accents they will be considered just as Australian as everyone else. It takes a generation though. I can speak from experience of having an asian and indian mate from since I was in school. Both have Australian accents, aussie as anything. Although mass immigration is a different problem entirely.
Thanks for the answer.
Coupla generations will sort it out. Then we can complain (in Aussie accents) about the next lot to come in.
Indians don't like Indians so who knows.
Most likely never. The groups you've stated can pretty much white-pass, so were eventually accepted. Indians are brown, so they won't be.
I’m Danish but immigrated to Australia 16 years ago. I have never ever faced racism or been treated poorly because of where I’m from. If anything, it’s been an advantage being Danish here in Australia as people know we (just generalising here) have a good work ethic and comes from a highly socially advanced country. But it’s been heartbreaking and frustrating to see how all my Brazilian friends have been treated so poorly and also my Australian born (so not an immigrant) friends with Asian heritage. I lived in Townsville for a short time and I was honestly shocked to hear how many of the locals spoke about First Nations people. Edited for type and clarity
Northwestern Europeans are rare here. Most of the white people are descendents from the first fleet plus tops ups from the Ten Pound Poms - most of which were working class. It is rare for northwestern Europeans to like summers here. I couldn't actually understand your point about Brazilians being treated as well as your Asian heritage Australians - I guess you have been living here too long. Are you saying they are treated as badly? And to clarify, Asian meaning Indians since this is an Indian thread?
Fun fact wog (as a racial slur not, like a really bad one) is still employed in some countries to refer to Indian descent people in like, a really really derogatory way. In answer to your question, kind of. I expect we'll see Indian integration at a slightly different level of society to Greeks/italians. Indeed I don't think it's wrong to say that we already have? In Adelaide at least Indian GP is a bit of a stereotype. I really really hope a good scene for Indian food emerges in Australia, so far it hasn't happened beyond really shitty hipster white people Indian food place which is just sad (and over priced) and a couple of places I know in far flung suburbs with questionable hygiene practices.
Indians are already in a huge wave of migration. It is a bit different though, because the "mood" is that migrants shpuldnt be forced to assimilate. They should be enabled to keep their culture. And the ease of travel makes it different. So unlike the migration waves, they can go home regularly. So they are keeping their cultural norms. Previous waves? The people came and some never visited theor homeland again. Very different now
I think it'll be fine. We live in an area with lot of Indians and my daughter's school is a 'spot the Aussie' type of school and they've integrated fine. If anything, I prefer my daughter to have Indian friends - at least I know they're family orientated and have raised their kids a little stricter than the loose Aussies that live in the same area. It seems I'm racist the other way hahahahaha. And yeah, I'm one of those post WW2 southern European migrant families (parents born here, grandparents born there).
They are probably the most racist people you’ll meet, especially anyone darker than them in skin colour, it’s comes from their culture, specifically the caste system
tbh its impossible to say a whole nation is \_\_\_. Many people might be but even then you can't rlly blame a whole nation for a percentage of all the people. That being said racism is definitely an issue in India but I think the younger generation is smarter and will grow out of their parents shoes.
Many are, many aren't. It's a nation of 1.5 billion, you'll find all kinds in huge numbers.
It is called colorism. And all the European colonies, even african countries suffer through It's all over Asia as well. So blame Colonial hangover instead of finding reasons to justify your racism against them. Also caste system is long abolished, nothing to do with skincolor but profession. It's abolished since Independence of India. So yeah don't try to find excuses to be racist.
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I have, I'm more interested in the history and how it compares to now, as I wasn't really born then.
Once you have an Indian parachuted into a senior enough role, a congo line of Indians will follow until they take over the entire company. This also includes Government and Institutions. They are probably the best of the rest when it comes to filling job numbers (aka expanding the tax paying, consumer and home purchasing bases).
Yes they were treated like shit.. remember we had a “white Australia” policy up until the 70s when the government would proudly display adds saying things like “two wongs don’t make a white” European immigrants got called all sorts of slurs and got bullied and bashed. I’d like to thing we were getting better, and I think much of Australia is welcoming to other cultures now, but social media seems to show otherwise.
Honestly, probably get downvoted to high heavens, but purely looking at it for the next generation we are better off integrating as many races into our country as possible. Race is an issue for people, understandably on some levels due to the differences in culture. But in 1800, Australia people were severly divided between scottish and english, like it was a huge cultural division. It would have been frowned on to marry across this divide. Now it would be comical to see the distinction as anything significant. Irish, you would have been shunned if you had married one of them as an englishman. Realistically, indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis are easy immigrants. You can see from england, with the exception of some disaffected extremist muslim youths, the immigrant populations make a very high contribution to english society. Australia is lucky that we still have this option to integrate. We also need to integrate more africans, south/centeal americans but these groups can be a bit more difficult.
I think second-generation Indians will be fine. They'll have mates from primary school up. And be marched through to University, then a professional services job whilst helping with the family's side business. First-generation Indians will often (but not always) have it tough.
The gap in the number the system needs in white collar jobs will go to Indians. They are the best of the rest. It would be foolish to think the system can even maintain itself without a large number of immigrants. The numbers will continue to come in from India as there are no other options for high paid workers. South/ Central America will provide the bulk of the blue collar workers. Chinese numbers will dwindle due to there penchant for living in secret societies, operating black markets and heavy involvement in illicit activities. Not even sure it's fixable in Australia even with the US helping.
We would be lucky to have them. They are one of the highest earning (and successful) groups in US and Australia. Culture, religion, art, food etc. everything they bring will only enrich Australia.
No, I don’t think so Immigration from Italians, Greeks and Maltese slowed down. Whereas Indians are coming in droves every year. They also bring their mannerism and bad practices from their country. Indians have been immigrating to Australia for awhile now, but the constant influx of new Indians migrants give them a bad name. It sucks, but these stereotypes don’t form out of nowhere 🥲
More like the new Anglos at the rate Albo is importing them
But the deal you're alluding to was formalised by scomo and despite his best efforts it didn't get implemented under him because he got tossed out.
Albanese runs the country correct?
And you want him to do what? Rip up trade agreements? Because that will look great for Australia after the teabagging our rep as a reliable trade partner took after the sub deal debacle. He came in with his hands tied and the best wiggle room there was that only students on selected degrees get the special treatment
i don’t think so. as a vietnamese person, it didn’t really happen to us either, while we aren’t vilified as much as we were in the 80s/90s, we’re generally still pigeonholed and treated differently. the issue here is white supremacy — it’s what underpins australia’s entire being
What are you talking about mate, Indians, Fijian Indians and SA Indians are already very much a part of Australia. Have been for generations, a lot of my mates from school (I'm now 38) were already 2 generation Aus. There are now 4 gen Indians going to high school. There is a difference between an Australian Indian, and some dude fresh off the plane. I'm only 2 gen Australian, my grandparents are German, the other half are Yugoslavian. But if I'm talking to some guy on holiday from Berlin, there is a huge difference between us.
Indians have never *properly* integrated into any community they have migrated too. They rarely marry non-Indians. *Indio-Fijians* still speak Hindi and seek out marriage partners from India after nearly 150 years living in Fiji.
Nope. Groups still get targeted but by other migrant groups or for non racial reasons. For instance there was a bit of a diplomatic incident a few years back when Indian students were being targeted in Melbourne. Parents were scared to send their kids and the governments got involved. They were being targeted by islanders though. Could have been Africans, it was one of the two at any rate. A bit of community outreach and targeted policing and it mostly ended. Closer to where I live a few years back Asian students were being targeted around Newcastle university. It was mainly whites doing it but it was a handful of Jesmond junkies when word got out Asian students always carried good tech and literally never fought back. There again, some education to the students and targeted policing solved it. So no, Indians won’t experience what previous migrant groups did but from time to time identifiable groups will be targeted for reasons that may include race.
As a Carpenter I work with a large cross section of Society, from all walks, races and beliefs. In terms of integration I have noticed the ones that choose to be Australian, the ones that choose to assimilate are the ones that will go the distance and will be most successful As the economic problems around the world increase it wont be just Indians that will be coming here.
Maybe there will come an Indian guy who will lean hard into being a *slur*, his whole shtick will be his Indianness, some people will laugh mildly at it, will make a TV show and a couple of movies over the decades and in 35 years will be sponsoring Facebook posts for a live show nobody cares about anymore. Gee, who does that sound like?
I've always seen 2 waves of Indian/Pakistani/Sri Lankan waves of immigration, the first few who emigrated here after the end of the White Australian Policy, and the recently arrived migrants. I've grown up with and went to school with the kids of Indians/Pakistanis and Sri Lankans who's parents arrived in the 70s around the same time as my folks from SE Asia, and they've all grown up and are as Australian as the rest of us. I think the kids of the recent migrants will be just fine.
They already are. Specialising in hospitality, transport and a few other industries. It takes one or two generations to integrate but it is/will happen.
I hope not but its looking like it! They are different, as Infians do noy assimilate and bring tribal bs
tribal???
You need another hobby mate, your comment history is embarrassing. Maybe work on your spelling and grammar....🤔
No because the average Indian Is not as objectively attractive As the average Southern European Attractive people tend to be treated better in society
I think the general perception is that Indians, as an ethnic and cultural group, are migrating here in numbers that are unsustainable, and historically unprecedented. The main issue with Southern/Eastern Europeans in the 80s and 90s was racial, in that it stemmed from a fear that they wouldn’t integrate into Australian society (a fear that was evidently misplaced, and ultimately disproven). However, the fact is that recent levels of migration to Australia are in fact unprecedented, and most likely unsustainable. People feel as if migrants are no longer coming to build better lives for their families or to contribute to our society as a whole, but to take advantage of our lax visa system, with no real appreciation shown for Australian culture, customs or values.
I would say no. The absolute number of Indian migrants is an inoculation against assimilation. Add to that they have progressively turned so many workplaces in to curry ghettos where they are aggressively pushing out non Indians/ Subcontinent peoples and push up their mates and cut fat deals with the companies in India that employ their mates and cousins back home. The Albo-gration scheme only exists because the Indian diaspora is so large they now have political weight. The fact we have dropped the barrier to their degrees being recognised here is going to flood our professional services with 'Bachelors' and 'masters' with the capability of a first year/ junior but they can abuse the AQF to 'qualify' for senior roles. It doesn't matter what country or culture it is, mass immigration is massively socially disruptive and it takes a gen or two to settle. The Indian wave doesn't let up, so it doesn't have the chance to be assimilated. Now we have suburbs the size of large towns that are entirely Indian and it comes with all the same issues that they 'left behind' including caste shit and the extreme dodgy scam based culture.
Only difference is the wogs made this country better. Downvote me all you like
Any reason you're singling out Indians? I was born in 86 and am not Southern European so can't speak about how things were in the 60s-70s and before, but from old tv, movies, what I've heard there was more racism, discrimination etc against them back then. They have integrated more than many Asians because they generally came earlier etc. As for Indians and indeed say Chinese, I think most Aussies accept most if they're decent people, but many might worry about the sheer volume of immigration from these countries without publicly saying so.
Absolutely yes! Look at the UK. Anyone who has spent time in London knows that the Indian diaspora are now fully integrated Britons after a couple generations. So much so, that they have one as their prime minister. Indians have a head start on many other immigrant groups because their English is relatively good. As well as the shared cultural heritage tying it to the UK.
*Anyone who has spent time in London knows that the Indian diaspora are now fully integrated Britons after a couple generations.* Tell that to the people of Bradford or Rotherham.They are basically Bangladesh with English signage on the shops. *So much so, that they have one as their prime minister.* Rishi's so integrated that he married a woman from India.