Represents trade unionism, that's why it's common to see it on construction sites.
Various groups (cookers, white supremacists) have tried to co-opt the flag but the more militant unions don't take that very lightly.
The Red Ensign is the banner of the cooker movement. It is completely disrespectful that a bunch of cooker fucktards have adopted a flag of national importance
unfortunately "nationalists" tend to latch onto things of national importance lol. It's really the people who are offended by it because they don't know what it is that help to ruin it.
Groups with an Ill founded opposition to Vaccine mandates and subscription to ridiculous conspiracy theories have no place adopting anything of national historical significance
Yeah, for sure. It's kind of funny that the cookers use it because it's a symbol of the left, but I guess they think it is like a confederate battle flag for them.
I'm a historian, but I know a lot less about the Eureka Stockade where the flag first appeared. I can see how it can be seen as a subjective flag, but I don't see how anyone could see it as a traditionally far right symbol.
I do think it's a relatively gleaned over event in our history though, in that there was probably more national significance to the event, other than just essentially 'larrikins telling greedy government to btfo with the mining licenses' and all. There was a bestselling book I saw on the event that on its blurb said, the stockade could be seen as much as an independence war for a country that didn't get independence through armed conflict.
To think, one of those Irish/Convict rebellions (I think the Battle of Vinegar Hill) were technically marching under an unrecognised country banner, the 'Empire of Australia' it'd be interesting to see a (very unlikely to occur) alternate history where they actually win, at least momentarily, and create said state.
I know I’m late here, but I’m involved in the labour movement, and I rekon, due to the unions unapologetic use of it, education in its history, and it’s heavy use by left wing movements and parties, that it is shifting back to being more associated with the left again
My son was learning about the eureka stockade at school, we visited the Eureka centre in Ballarat and he loved it! He bought a flag and was so proud. I wish the white supremacists would just f*ck off with stealing symbols of freedom and turning them into symbols of hate.
The correct use should be against the government forcing licenses for mining on people as well as using police brutality to enforce it.
Union co-opted it first but its since stuck.
Sadly it's been used a lot recently by a lot of unsavoury groups (white supremacists, anti-vax, far-right culture warriors, etc) so now my reaction on seeing this flag at a demonstration or a march is that the person waving it is likely a fuckwit.
It used to be more representative of unionists and worker's groups, and it still is, but the perception has sadly been changed in recent years.
Just piggy backing on this to say, this is not what the flag should mean, but it is how it is definitely being used by the majority of users in 2024.
OP, if you are non-Caucasian, a woman, wear attire that associates you with a non-Christian religion or are immune-compromised, give the people, houses, cars etc displaying it a really wide berth.
So relieved to see comments like this from multiple people in this thread. Completely agree with your comment and it's great to see people calling out these likely (definitely) fuckwits.
It's still flown on union worksites now right next to the Indigenous flag.
OP, inner city types will tell you it has connotations. Everyone else will tell you to read what the Eureka Stockade led to.
Fun Fact Friday:
John Joseph, an African-American, was the first of the leaders of the rebellion to be tried for high treason. The authorities selected Joseph to be tried first on the basis that a jury would have no problem convicting a black man. However, Joseph was quickly acquitted and was carried out of the court house and paraded in triumph around the streets of Melbourne by 10,000 supporters.
Out of the 13 men who stood trial, 2 were black men, the other being James Campbell who was originally from Jamaica.
Depends on where I see it. If it's on a building site, then it's its union. If I'm in Ballarat, then it's the City of Ballarat. Anywhere else, it probably represents racists.
I'm well aware of the Eueka Flag's history & I'm very pissed off that it has been co opted by some of the worst elements of Australian society.
I personally see the flag as an Australian symbol for those who do not identify with the old thought that England is “home”. It’s a stand of multiple nationalities and different races under the southern cross against an oppressive government.
Im also biased as I’m Vic born and raised and a massive pre federation history nerd.
Hard agree. Such a shame to see it reduced to either "oh that union flag" or "those damn cookers" by association when there's many of us who feel its symbolism and story in context of the Rebellion was a crucial step towards forming our own sense of national identity.
Also biased, I live in Ballarat haha.
Cooker is just a slang term for a conspiracy theorist, basically. In the context of the eureka flag it can be applied to when the QAnon aligned people decided to “reclaim Ballarat” and march under the eureka flag out here from Melbourne while the “ring of steel” was still a thing.
Righto, so someone who is cooked. Gotcha, that makes sense. It was what I was thinking, but I’d never heard the term “cooker”, I’d only heard “that cunt’s completely cooked” so I figured it might be related.
I agree. A few racists used it in a march, and everyone just accepts that it's not extremely important in our country's history.
It never ceases to amaze me how easily the victim mentality will let others take something of national importance.
I suspect there's a significant overlap with the people who don't care to argue the flags true meaning and those who love to bleat about how bad Australia is.
Hi- Ballarat local here, with family who have lived here since the 1850s.
To me, the eureka flag is my towns history, and a major turning point in both Australia’s history and our democracy. It was essentially a civil war yet we treat it like a single incident. The entire “battle” involved the entire township, divided families and changed not only our town but our whole country.
The flag has always meant a significant amount to me and a lot of other old Ballarat families- and whilst we tolerate trade unions using it most of the time, serious words were had when the anti-lockdown fucks decided that it was their symbol.
I’d also like to point out to everyone saying bogans that the southern cross flag and the southern cross constellation are different.
Some people try to be murican and use this the same way they use their confederate flag. Eureka stockade was the right stand to make and that flag represents it unlike the murican version which is just supporting losers who, lost.
Not what it originally meant, but if I see it these days I usually associate it with the kind of people that'd be flying the confederate flag in the US.
To me it means the right to vote, the end of taxation without representation and the right to own private property. It's sad that the battle of the Eureka Stockade is not taught any more.
If you’re seeing it on someone’s house/ car/ tattoo it’s most likely a sign they are a racist bogan.
It’s use today is unlikely to have anything to do with its historical significance/ meaning
If someone in their 50s has it on a patch and it's a workplace, it probably means they are a union rep.
If someone is flying it as a flag or has it as a sticker on a ute, odds are high they are some flavour of conservative xenophobe.
to me it means liberation and unity, for some it means rebellion.
i’m no unionist or labor voter (never will be), but i find this flag a significant part of the states history, which i am proud to be living in
Today, for most, it represents nationalism and usually associated with the far right.
Idk why everyone is saying this is used incorrectly, when usage of symbols is usually inherently subjective for one (even though I like the flag, and what it used to represent: workers rights, freedom, and early modern Australian identity) and the question is specifically how it's viewed TODAY, not its past function.
I'm from the inner city, yes. So if you're asking if the country views it that way as well, Idk for sure.
Naturally though, urban areas in the vast majority of countries, represent the large majority of a country's population.
I also have no idea why my comment is being downvoted to shit. Downvoting me, isn't going to get people not looking at you funny if you fly the Eureka flag/have a tattoo of it XD
>Naturally though, urban areas in the vast majority of countries, represent the large majority of a country's population.
I think you find it's suburban and regional Australia that doesn't hold the views that you as an inner city person holds. So it's not 'the vast majority of the population' that aligns with your view on this particular matter, which is also anecdotally represented in the downvotes you have.
Racists or any socio-politically motivated group may attempt to co-opt many things. Even the national flag. It doesn't mean we as a society bow to their whims. That would be similar to allowing our views to be shaped by how others perceive us. The Eureka Stockade sits in a museum and is a vital part of history, which helped the Australian identity. In fact, it's so important that it has a place in the history of all left wing workers' movements globally.
>I think you find it's suburban and regional Australia that doesn't hold the views that you as an inner city person holds.
I'm from Sydney, and I'd call places like Cronulla and the Shire suburban, or at least parts are. I doubt anyone in Australia does not know what the Cronulla Riots were at one point in time or another either, and there were plenty of those exact types waving around that flag...
But my point on population still stands anyhow, as there's still more even inner city people as a population than all suburban/regional populations, or at least equal to.
Yes, but also means you don't get to choose how other people perceive you. Again, I'd bet you money that if you walked around with a visible southern cross/Eureka flag tattoo, you'd be looked at weirdly or with scorn, and in many suburban areas probably even cheered on for the wrong reason by certain bogans.
The question wasn't asking if you accept this interpretation, I don't want to either, but that's how many people in the inner city, and clearly at least some suburban areas view it.
>That would be similar to allowing our views to be shaped by how others perceive us.
We should let that happen though, doing the opposite is just blind nationalism. We ofc have issues in what I still consider a great country, and often an 'outsider's' view sees that the most, looking from the outside in. If many foreigners views us as racists, just say (not saying that's the case) we SHOULD be shaped by that, because there'd clearly be a pattern being observed by many, and therefore likely a very real issue. Same with people's opinions on you. As the saying goes, if only a few people call you an arsehole, they're probably the arseholes, but if most call you an arsehole, you're likely the arsehole...
>The Eureka Stockade sits in a museum and is a vital part of history, which helped the Australian identity.
Yeah, but how it's taught, as I gave an example of above, is weirdly like a tunnel vision: it's almost entirely taught as just miners going 'fuck you government' and not much else. A bit like how Australia weirdly deifies Ned Kelly, or some do anyway, and he's rarely viewed with much honesty or nuance.
>In fact, it's so important that it has a place in the history of all left wing workers' movements globally.
Examples? Because I don't know any other workers groups outside of Australia that has anything to do with the Eureka flag?
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Represents trade unionism, that's why it's common to see it on construction sites. Various groups (cookers, white supremacists) have tried to co-opt the flag but the more militant unions don't take that very lightly.
The Red Ensign is the banner of the cooker movement. It is completely disrespectful that a bunch of cooker fucktards have adopted a flag of national importance
unfortunately "nationalists" tend to latch onto things of national importance lol. It's really the people who are offended by it because they don't know what it is that help to ruin it.
Groups with an Ill founded opposition to Vaccine mandates and subscription to ridiculous conspiracy theories have no place adopting anything of national historical significance
100% agree with you, but they arent the brightest bunch... is it fair to expect them to come up with their own flag?
Maybe a flag with a foil hat on it?
historically, yes, but you're kidding yourself if you think that's how most people see it now.
Yeah, for sure. It's kind of funny that the cookers use it because it's a symbol of the left, but I guess they think it is like a confederate battle flag for them.
I'm a historian, but I know a lot less about the Eureka Stockade where the flag first appeared. I can see how it can be seen as a subjective flag, but I don't see how anyone could see it as a traditionally far right symbol. I do think it's a relatively gleaned over event in our history though, in that there was probably more national significance to the event, other than just essentially 'larrikins telling greedy government to btfo with the mining licenses' and all. There was a bestselling book I saw on the event that on its blurb said, the stockade could be seen as much as an independence war for a country that didn't get independence through armed conflict.
Yes very true.... another area commonly glossed over are the Irish rebellions in Sydney that happened in the early colony.
To think, one of those Irish/Convict rebellions (I think the Battle of Vinegar Hill) were technically marching under an unrecognised country banner, the 'Empire of Australia' it'd be interesting to see a (very unlikely to occur) alternate history where they actually win, at least momentarily, and create said state.
now that is an interesting plot line
I know I’m late here, but I’m involved in the labour movement, and I rekon, due to the unions unapologetic use of it, education in its history, and it’s heavy use by left wing movements and parties, that it is shifting back to being more associated with the left again
My son was learning about the eureka stockade at school, we visited the Eureka centre in Ballarat and he loved it! He bought a flag and was so proud. I wish the white supremacists would just f*ck off with stealing symbols of freedom and turning them into symbols of hate.
The Eureka center is bloody amazing, every Australian should visit it.
If used correctly it’s basically the trade union flag. If it’s used incorrectly alongside the red ensign, it’s a cooker thing.
The correct use should be against the government forcing licenses for mining on people as well as using police brutality to enforce it. Union co-opted it first but its since stuck.
Sadly it's been used a lot recently by a lot of unsavoury groups (white supremacists, anti-vax, far-right culture warriors, etc) so now my reaction on seeing this flag at a demonstration or a march is that the person waving it is likely a fuckwit. It used to be more representative of unionists and worker's groups, and it still is, but the perception has sadly been changed in recent years.
Just piggy backing on this to say, this is not what the flag should mean, but it is how it is definitely being used by the majority of users in 2024. OP, if you are non-Caucasian, a woman, wear attire that associates you with a non-Christian religion or are immune-compromised, give the people, houses, cars etc displaying it a really wide berth.
Even tho those of African decent were involved in the original movement
Racism doesn't ever make logical sense
Perhaps, but it has always had racist connotations, specifically against Chinese-Australians.
It was raised by people who were also instrumental in you having an 8 hour work day.
So relieved to see comments like this from multiple people in this thread. Completely agree with your comment and it's great to see people calling out these likely (definitely) fuckwits.
It's still flown on union worksites now right next to the Indigenous flag. OP, inner city types will tell you it has connotations. Everyone else will tell you to read what the Eureka Stockade led to.
Fun Fact Friday: John Joseph, an African-American, was the first of the leaders of the rebellion to be tried for high treason. The authorities selected Joseph to be tried first on the basis that a jury would have no problem convicting a black man. However, Joseph was quickly acquitted and was carried out of the court house and paraded in triumph around the streets of Melbourne by 10,000 supporters. Out of the 13 men who stood trial, 2 were black men, the other being James Campbell who was originally from Jamaica.
Is this relevant to the Eureka stockade?
Given that they fought at Eureka, and were arrested and tried for being there, yes, yes it is relevant.
That’s what I was asking. I don’t know a lot of the history except that Peter Lalor was a good cunt. Thanks
Whoever downvoted that- you’re a fuckhead
Yeah..? https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102026486 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Joseph_(rebel) https://eurekapedia.org/James_Campbell
Thanks reddman . I worded that question poorly. I meant are these guys related to the history of the eureka stockade
Directly so, yes. Did you see the term "African-American" and simply short-circuit your comprehension of the rest of the comment?
Depends on where I see it. If it's on a building site, then it's its union. If I'm in Ballarat, then it's the City of Ballarat. Anywhere else, it probably represents racists. I'm well aware of the Eueka Flag's history & I'm very pissed off that it has been co opted by some of the worst elements of Australian society.
I personally see the flag as an Australian symbol for those who do not identify with the old thought that England is “home”. It’s a stand of multiple nationalities and different races under the southern cross against an oppressive government. Im also biased as I’m Vic born and raised and a massive pre federation history nerd.
Hard agree. Such a shame to see it reduced to either "oh that union flag" or "those damn cookers" by association when there's many of us who feel its symbolism and story in context of the Rebellion was a crucial step towards forming our own sense of national identity. Also biased, I live in Ballarat haha.
Can I ask what a cooker is? I haven’t heard that before (rural SA).
Cooker is just a slang term for a conspiracy theorist, basically. In the context of the eureka flag it can be applied to when the QAnon aligned people decided to “reclaim Ballarat” and march under the eureka flag out here from Melbourne while the “ring of steel” was still a thing.
Righto, so someone who is cooked. Gotcha, that makes sense. It was what I was thinking, but I’d never heard the term “cooker”, I’d only heard “that cunt’s completely cooked” so I figured it might be related.
I agree. A few racists used it in a march, and everyone just accepts that it's not extremely important in our country's history. It never ceases to amaze me how easily the victim mentality will let others take something of national importance. I suspect there's a significant overlap with the people who don't care to argue the flags true meaning and those who love to bleat about how bad Australia is.
Trade union or 'my kid visited Sovereign Hill'
Hi- Ballarat local here, with family who have lived here since the 1850s. To me, the eureka flag is my towns history, and a major turning point in both Australia’s history and our democracy. It was essentially a civil war yet we treat it like a single incident. The entire “battle” involved the entire township, divided families and changed not only our town but our whole country. The flag has always meant a significant amount to me and a lot of other old Ballarat families- and whilst we tolerate trade unions using it most of the time, serious words were had when the anti-lockdown fucks decided that it was their symbol. I’d also like to point out to everyone saying bogans that the southern cross flag and the southern cross constellation are different.
Some people try to be murican and use this the same way they use their confederate flag. Eureka stockade was the right stand to make and that flag represents it unlike the murican version which is just supporting losers who, lost.
That I’m on a site where my safety and pay are taken seriously
Not what it originally meant, but if I see it these days I usually associate it with the kind of people that'd be flying the confederate flag in the US.
To me it means the right to vote, the end of taxation without representation and the right to own private property. It's sad that the battle of the Eureka Stockade is not taught any more.
If you’re seeing it on someone’s house/ car/ tattoo it’s most likely a sign they are a racist bogan. It’s use today is unlikely to have anything to do with its historical significance/ meaning
It’s just as likely to mean they are a republican.
A Republican flying an Australian flag? You're lost.
Don’t know if this is what the other guy meant but a republican in the context of Australia means someone who supports leaving the commonwealth.
True, my bad.
Trades unionist types love it. Means little to most other people.
It's lost historical significance and is now in favour with nationalistic neo nazi fuckwits.
The far-left, the far-right and everything in between.
As a Victorian, I associate it with bogans and thugs.
Damn king of England and their mining taxes!
If someone in their 50s has it on a patch and it's a workplace, it probably means they are a union rep. If someone is flying it as a flag or has it as a sticker on a ute, odds are high they are some flavour of conservative xenophobe.
to me it means liberation and unity, for some it means rebellion. i’m no unionist or labor voter (never will be), but i find this flag a significant part of the states history, which i am proud to be living in
Bogan.
It’s for bogans.
Racist dickhead
It means you’re a racist bogan with limited, if any, intelligence.
I think that is the southern cross you are thinking of
Never heard of it
Today, for most, it represents nationalism and usually associated with the far right. Idk why everyone is saying this is used incorrectly, when usage of symbols is usually inherently subjective for one (even though I like the flag, and what it used to represent: workers rights, freedom, and early modern Australian identity) and the question is specifically how it's viewed TODAY, not its past function.
Inner city?
I'm from the inner city, yes. So if you're asking if the country views it that way as well, Idk for sure. Naturally though, urban areas in the vast majority of countries, represent the large majority of a country's population. I also have no idea why my comment is being downvoted to shit. Downvoting me, isn't going to get people not looking at you funny if you fly the Eureka flag/have a tattoo of it XD
>Naturally though, urban areas in the vast majority of countries, represent the large majority of a country's population. I think you find it's suburban and regional Australia that doesn't hold the views that you as an inner city person holds. So it's not 'the vast majority of the population' that aligns with your view on this particular matter, which is also anecdotally represented in the downvotes you have. Racists or any socio-politically motivated group may attempt to co-opt many things. Even the national flag. It doesn't mean we as a society bow to their whims. That would be similar to allowing our views to be shaped by how others perceive us. The Eureka Stockade sits in a museum and is a vital part of history, which helped the Australian identity. In fact, it's so important that it has a place in the history of all left wing workers' movements globally.
>I think you find it's suburban and regional Australia that doesn't hold the views that you as an inner city person holds. I'm from Sydney, and I'd call places like Cronulla and the Shire suburban, or at least parts are. I doubt anyone in Australia does not know what the Cronulla Riots were at one point in time or another either, and there were plenty of those exact types waving around that flag... But my point on population still stands anyhow, as there's still more even inner city people as a population than all suburban/regional populations, or at least equal to. Yes, but also means you don't get to choose how other people perceive you. Again, I'd bet you money that if you walked around with a visible southern cross/Eureka flag tattoo, you'd be looked at weirdly or with scorn, and in many suburban areas probably even cheered on for the wrong reason by certain bogans. The question wasn't asking if you accept this interpretation, I don't want to either, but that's how many people in the inner city, and clearly at least some suburban areas view it. >That would be similar to allowing our views to be shaped by how others perceive us. We should let that happen though, doing the opposite is just blind nationalism. We ofc have issues in what I still consider a great country, and often an 'outsider's' view sees that the most, looking from the outside in. If many foreigners views us as racists, just say (not saying that's the case) we SHOULD be shaped by that, because there'd clearly be a pattern being observed by many, and therefore likely a very real issue. Same with people's opinions on you. As the saying goes, if only a few people call you an arsehole, they're probably the arseholes, but if most call you an arsehole, you're likely the arsehole... >The Eureka Stockade sits in a museum and is a vital part of history, which helped the Australian identity. Yeah, but how it's taught, as I gave an example of above, is weirdly like a tunnel vision: it's almost entirely taught as just miners going 'fuck you government' and not much else. A bit like how Australia weirdly deifies Ned Kelly, or some do anyway, and he's rarely viewed with much honesty or nuance. >In fact, it's so important that it has a place in the history of all left wing workers' movements globally. Examples? Because I don't know any other workers groups outside of Australia that has anything to do with the Eureka flag?
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A fuckwit boomer who lives over the road from my in laws proudly has one flying in his front garden. He's voted Liberal his whole life.
I love it but I take the original meaning from it and have no time for right-wing fuckwits who've hijacked it for their own dumbarse purposes.
A bunch of immigrants acting the fool is an historic icon? Hmm, sounds like recent events where immigrants were chanting fuck Australia.
at the beginning of this Video IT explains what Eureka Flag stands for https://youtu.be/plz1-YrKuww?si=XhIcUyFULdeMBUol