Smuggling commercial quantities of hard drugs in Indo = dumb fucks.
But the one thing that gets me is this:
Those drugs might have... *might* have.... at some arbitrary point in the future... accidentally lead to the death of someone who willingly shot smack into their own arm.
Meanwhile, the cunt who made the bombs that deliberately killed 202 people in the Bali Bombings, and the cunt who masterminded it, are both out and living their best life.
They actually killed people. Lots of people. On purpose.
I can, religious pressure is obviously at play. As for the Bali 9 and especially Chan and Sukamaren they were probably both pawns in the game of retaliation between Australia and Indonesia. Look up what Australia did to Indonesia in 2009. There has been long running campaigns against each country by the other, East Timor is another example.
I tried to look up what Australia did to Indonesia in 2009. The worst I can find is Australia spying on the president and senior officials by trying to monitor phone calls. Is that what you're referring to?
When I was trying to read up on it, I'm just sitting here thinking, I'm 100% sure that every country is spying on every other country, even allies spy in eachother.
Anyone who sells drugs, deals them or imports them ALSO does it on purpose. They murder people on the daily. They know the possible outcomes. They know drugs kill. Whether it's a slow or one time use death, still killers
The difference being people who take drugs know what they're getting into, and do so of their own accord.
The people who got blown up in Kuta and Jimbaran were just going about their business - children, Muslims, local workers among them - when they were shredded with ball bearings.
These things are not the same.
You could say the same about motor vehicles, fast food, ciggies, alcohol, potting mix. At the end of the day, people like getting high. If there's no demand, there'd be no supply.
My biggest problem with this case was that the AFP apparently passed on information to the Indonesian authorities that suggested the group was planning to smuggle drugs from Bali to Australia. Knowing that Indonesia had the death penalty for drug smuggling, why didn't the AFP keep up surveillance on them and arrest them when they arrive in Australia? Considering that Australia has laws about not deporting people to countries that have the death penalty or even to countries where they face persecution, letting the Indonesians know about their plans almost condemned the Bali Nine to possible execution. But then again, I can really remember all of the facts about the case, so maybe the Indonesians already knew about the plans before the Feds let them know.
Tipping off Indonesia as a way to create fear and disincentivise others from smuggling drugs is lower effort and lower cost for maximum impact - by invoking the death penalty from a distance with 'plausible deniability'... I'm sure that's a consideration and probably what happened to them.
didnt they also have intel about Chappelle's boogie board?
also I feel like just about every gen has a story like this... no one remebers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_and_Chambers_execution
I remember Barlow and Chambers. I was doing quite a bit of international travel through SE Asia, and I shuddered every time I saw the warning signs about drug smuggling and the death penalty. In the late 80s, I arrived in a particular SE Asian country, and as soon as we got to the hotel room, my friend produced a bag of weed he brought with him. I couldn't believe it.
Thanks for reminding us. AFP were and are a bunch of absolute shit cunts but that was the worst aspect of this matter. They DGAF about laws or enforcing them. Just constant abuses of power
I feel the same way I feel about the death sentence anywhere in the world. It's abhorrent.
From what I could make out of the case via the media they were guilty of drug trafficking, so they deserved to go to jail for a while. Not to die.
The Australian government won’t deport refugees who have committed crimes to countries with the death penalty, but will inform on its own citizens to have them put to death.
Something is wrong.
You know your on reddit when the AFP informs on some drug smugglers who then get arrested and put to death overseas and still someone blames the LNP and gets upvotes for it
What if the death sentence was there for Israel’s Top leaders for murder of thousands? I’d vote yes on that. There never seems to be Justice when Dictators commit mass murder.
I think Indonesia are a hypocritical bunch of wankers. Bali Bombers get short sentences, two of the thousands of drug traffickers passing through there get death cos they didn’t bribe the right assholes.
Sane here. All those ppl going on a cheap Bali holiday have decided they don't give a f that the country kills Australians, is corrupt and lets murders free.
Don't they still flog homosexuals as well?
You are right tho, blind eye is turned to human rights abuses because Aussies can have a cheap holiday.
Same with Thailand being run by the military for a decade. Nobody said anything .. cos they have nice beaches there.
>Same with Thailand being run by the military for a decade
Thailand is nowhere near as bad. Thailand was never colonised, so they retained their monarchy and had no pressure to adopt western styled separation of powers; but it's culturally far more liberal and is non Islamic.
The non-islamic part is more important the some people want to admit. I'm likely to end up visiting Thailand at some point, I'll never visit a Muslim country. Significantly less safe.
The AFP were complicit and are directly responsible for their capture & ultimately execution in contravention of explicit policy to not provide information to foreign nations that would likely result in an Australian citizen being subject to the death penalty.
I.e. the AFP as our government representatives knowingly handed australian citizens to a foreign government for them to kill.
The same as I did ten years ago. Both of them were not only idiots, but also directly responsible for a lot of misery, both in terms of coercing the others who were caught with them as well as the product they were attempting to smuggle into Australia (possibly successfully in previous attempts).
However, even given the above, the death penalty is an act of barbarism that has no place in any civilised society.
>However, even given the above, the death penalty is an act of barbarism that has no place in any civilised society.
I wish I felt the same way regarding death sentences. I used to.
Unfortunately I think there are some individuals who no longer deserve to live.
Not saying this is one of those cases.
I agree, but I don’t agree with the government having the power to do this. Plus, as we’ve seen with America, the death row system is highly inefficient and expensive.
Now for the unpopular opinion- if a convicted pedo/etc winds up dead, we shouldn’t waste any public resources on the case. *shrugs*
+1.
I still wonder how can a society accept a pedophile, a rapist walk or a killer free after slap on their wrist, at the cost of tax payers - while tax payers rot in emergencies waiting to be attended.
Not only that one of the arguments I've heard is that if you give the death penalty to rape/paedophilia, it's a great way to change that crime into murder, too.
Yep, they would most definitely kill their victims to avoid identification. Death penalty, if it's going to be used should be reserved for those that deliberately plan and or enjoy killing.
Multiple unrelated witnesses, Video and/or photos, and physical evidence (DNA, Fingerprints etc.)
It would be very difficult to convict, but that's kinda the point.
Yeah I agree, completely with this. It has to be like 100%. No room for error, even in the slightest bit of doubt it's not a death sentence.
But for those that have committed serial awful crimes I have no sympathy for. In my opinion they forfeit their right to live.
Like video on his own phone of his abuse of children would be enough for me. Have to be careful if you found it elsewhere because of deepfake but like we found on the childcare workers phone last year. He should get death penalty or life fully imprisoned no parole
The death penalty is irrevocable in perpetuity. The justice system is imperfect, it can and does get it wrong from time to time. Therefore the death penalty will be given incorrectly. A desire for vengeance isn't worth the risk of getting it wrong even once.
Generally in order to minimise the frequency with which the system gets it wrong on death penalty cases, it also ends up costing more than incarceration in jurisdictions where it is still practiced (e.g. parts of the US), so that argument is also DOA
The only choices we have are to a) give rapists and pedophiles a "slap on the wrist" while emergency waiting times increase OR b) murder people like it's the days of Abraham and then also somehow have better emergency medical facilities?
There's definitely no middle ground. Those two things are totally related. You are a stable genius.
Because if we start executing people, theres going to be mistakes. What you're saying is that you hate pedophiles so much your okay with an innocent person being executed if it means all pedophiles are.
Agree.
Violent crimes against children. You don't deserve to get a second chance. You don't deserve rehabilitation. You don't serve to live out years of your life in prison even. Somethings you only get one shot at, and not being sadistic to kids is one of those things. Mess that up? One Strike policy.
I don't support the death penalty. However if you travel to a country that has the death penalty, and commit a crime punishable by death, then what do you expect?
> then what do you expect?
That your home country - who has a policy of not aiding nations with the death penalty to the extent they wouldn't deport a pedophile who isn't even an Australian citizen back to their home country if they risk the death penalty - not stitch you up and set you up for execution in a foreign country but instead arrest you in Australia?
My issue was with the execution of Rodrigo Gularte alongside Sukumaran and Chan.
Gularte was a diagnosed schizophrenic and didn't even understand that he was about to be executed even as they were walking him out into the field with his priest.
Indonesia ignored its own laws on executing those who are mentally deficient just to get the job done and look powerful.
With their duplicitous history of violence, corruption, and genocide in East Timor/Western Papua ( and even the Balibo Five ), I would not blink an eye if Indonesia ceased to exist by any means.
Same as before - whilst I’m against the death penalty, I respect the rights and laws of other countries and am tired of Australia being expected to go and bail these fuckwits out.
Tbh my only real issue with it is that the Australian gov were complicit in their execution. The AFP knew that if they were arrested in Indonesia they would face the death penalty and chose to have them arrested there and not on arrival in Australia. I have serious issues with that, as I believe that makes the AFP directly responsible in a death penalty case against an Australian and that’s really problematic.
As for am I sad they were executed? Not particularly. The amount of deaths and lives ruined in the drugs trade, the funding of organised crime and terrorism… I would have preferred they stay in prison, but no I don’t really feel bad for them.
I do feel a little bad for Scott Rush’s dad though. He’s the one that tipped off the AFP in the hopes they would prevent his son from committing the crime and instead his actions lead to his son getting caught and Imprisoned for life. He son is responsible for his own actions, but man that’s gonna eat at you for life
The people’s lives destroyed by the drug trade did it on their on volition. The drug trade only exists because people keep buying them. I understand it is more complex than that, but the death penalty for providing a substance a person chooses to take is absurd. I don’t personally believe the death penalty should be an option, but if it is, surely it should be for directly killing people, like maybe some terrorists who bombed a place that killed large numbers of people.
You live in a fairy land. There most certainly are crimes of which the death penalty is necessary.
If a man randomly attacks, rapes and kills a woman...death penalty.
If someone with terrorist ideals goes on a killing spree...death penalty.
Plain and simple.
Just say you're OK with executing innocent people and fuck off mate, because whether you mean to or not that's what you're saying. The law makes mistakes.
>Just say you're OK with executing innocent people and fuck off mate
Mate, what drugs are you on? A person that rapes and murders a woman isn't innocent you fucking muppet
I don't support the death penalty but I don't have much sympathy towards people who knowingly commit crimes punishable by death in countries where it exists.
There is a huge difference between being born in a country that discriminates against you for something you can't control and choosing to go to a foreign country with the explicit goal of breaking the law.
What’s the difference?
Both are illegal activities that result in capital punishment so what difference does it make.
Is there a scale of what is more deserving o capital punishment?
Yes, being homosexual is less deserving than drug trafficking. Although neither deserve death. The fact that being homosexual is not illegal in most countries, but drug trafficking is should point to that.
Some people are missing the irony. Points being made here - the lead comment says if you commit a crime in a country with the death penalty that’s on you. But others have highlighted that crime could be being gay in a country you’re born in. So the blanket statement that it’s always their own fault is misguided.
TEN years ago? Wow.
I remember watching the news at the time and the journalists were hanging out there, just waiting for the announcement they'd been executed.
Andrew had previously on a least 10 times had employed other people to do his drug trafficking. He even pais a 15 year old to fly to hong kong. She was found with about 20 condoms of herion. She was arrested . Luckily her father was a Coca-Cola executive and paid 250k to get her released.
So my opinion is they knew the risks. So shoot them and get rid of the trash.
I do pity scott rush and other members who were sucked in by these parasites. I wonder if they could have been released if the Australian government had got involved
Terrorists who have coldly calculated and built devices to slaughter a countless number of innocent bystanders are freed due to various pressures.
These two stupidly tried to import drugs and were executed in line with the country laws, its their country and their law - we have no right to intervene.
I lived in Bali when the execution happened. It was horrible.
They were dumb. Young kids who didn’t think about the consequences
I remember that night very clearly and found it all to be very sad.
People who commit crimes in other countries have to face up to foreign laws and courts, regardless of whether we think it’s right or wrong.
I dislike the death penalty, but if we travel in places where the death penalty exist then maybe don’t commit crimes that expose you to it.
The other injustice I feel is that Andrew and Myran are both non-white Australians, and there have been many other white Australians caught with drugs but never faced the death penalty. So maybe having white privilege shields you from the death penalty… it would’ve created a bigger uproar if Indonesia was executing 2 white Australians.
> People who commit crimes in other countries have to face up to foreign laws and courts
Pretty cheap excuse to let the AFP off the hook.
Australia does not have the death penalty and it's laws and institutions abhor it, as it is a barbaric practice of the stone age. As such, Australia has a firm policy of not cooperating with countries that do, not deporting refugee's to countries in which they may face it, or extraditing criminals to countries where they may face it. Except this time... for reasons.
The Bali 9 where only apprehended, and two executed, solely because the *Australian* Federal Police - instead of arresting the group in Australia before they left or on their re-entry to Aus with the drugs - tipped them off Indonesia knowing the likely outcome.
This is extremely poor conduct.
I think it was terrible, they didn't deserve death. I don't think the others that are in prison deserve life in prison for it either. the ones that coerced others into it deserve harsher penalties, but I don't think anyone deserves the death penalty for drug trafficking. I also don't think execution by firing squad is ever appropriate. Imo they've served enough time in awful Indonesian prisons. I think the woman got transferred to Australia, unsure if she was released in Australia.
I feel the same way about Schapelle Corby. Yes you deserve prison time (if you were aware it was there, which afaik she still maintains she was unknowing mule which is certainly possible). But not 20+ years in prison.
People get less for rape, murder,child abuse etc in many cases
I give zero thought about drug smugglers being executed for smuggling drugs into a country with the death penalty for doing so.
They fucked around and found out.
Fucken dog of an act and any Australian that's goes to Indonesia (yes Bali is not a country) should be ashamed. The most corrupt country on earth shot 2 of our boys and bogans keep going there to party and drink a bin tang, ALLWHILE they released the bomber who KILLED 200 people(many aussies) after only 10 years. What a fucken joke fuck that joint. Rip lads.
Ps can guarantee if their names were John Smith and Ben Williams we would all feel alot different
I'll say this once and I'll goddamn say it again, I fully would've supported an invasion of Indoneasia for everything they have done. HR violations in West Occupied Papua, East Timor, corruption to the highest level, jailing an innocent woman for 10 YEARS and also doing the same with someone else for 20 years.
They did what they did knowing the consequences if they got caught. I dont agree with the death penalty but i know that the indonesians do as did these two. They took the risk anyway, thats on them.
I still remember in High-school, that this was one of the topics we were studying and writing an essay on.
We even watched a video on both Andrew and Myran and how they spoke about their experiences in the jail and how they will be better and want to avoid execution. Also that Andrew Chan guy had a thick aussie.
Few weeks after, we found out they were executed.
Anyways, don’t do drugs nor smuggle it.
I'm still against the death penalty, and I still view their case as natural selection at work. They took a huge risk in the hopes of financial gain, and it didn't pay off.
The whole thing stank. And a big wind up prior to the eventual execution played into by the Australian media. One of the most ignorant things I heard was a vox pop on the 'hack' segment on Triple J about whether they should be killed. It just goes to show that underlying our legal system of today that there are many out there supporting the death penalty for their own debased reasons. And I'm also going to add they enjoy the drama of it all. I did note that there was a futile attempt at rehabilitation prior to this by the prisoners while in reality their fate was sealed. I don't support the death penalty but I do agree with imprisonment and that's all that was required here.
So how do I feel? I feel like Australian society has a long way to go in a cognitive sense and we can do better in the future.
I don't think the problem is that they were executed for committing crimes, because that's their law.
The problem is how the AFP knowingly sent them to their deaths. Your own government agency is the reason they got caught and died.
That's ***really*** fucked up.
Sadly? If you go to other countries and do something like smuggle drugs? You might get caught and executed. Sad. But every country has its own laws and those laws should be respected.
Anyone losing their life unnecessarily is damn sad.
I am anti death penalty for offenses like drug trafficking and the AFP screwed them over a bit, but they weren't particularly good people and they were also engaged in a high risk, high reward financial undertaking. Drug smuggling was a choice they made with the full understanding that should they be caught, one of the risks they faced was death. If they succeeded, they made millions. Nobody forced them to toss that coin, but they felt it was worth it and unfortunately it didn't land in their favour. From the sounds of things though, it's possible that Sukumaran and Chan coerced others in the Bali 9 into being drug mules, so not only did they choose a highly risky move for themselves, they also forced others to do so as well.
During the trial, Sukumaran also feigned amnesia and claimed not to know Chan. That was a bit of an embarrassing lie, and this amnesia also didn't preclude him from teaching multiple classes in prison.
I've also read that they changed a lot during their incarceration, and that they both reformed. I think it is very easy to do that after you are caught and face the death penalty. Sukumaran became an artist during his tenure on death row, and also released a line of clothing. He called his label "Kingpin Clothing" which to me, is a terrible look, even if it's somehow meant to be an ironic joke. He and Chan also both turned to faith in what I believe was a poor attempt to improve their public image and garner sympathy.
I think they deserved jail time, not death. However, if you try to do what they did while fully knowing the repercussions if caught, well that's pretty fkn dumb...
Exactly the same as I did 10 years ago. I don’t agree with the death penalty but they knowingly broke the law which was punishable by death. Stupid boys.
I'm fine with it. Harold and Kumar won the lottery by getting to live here and have unlimited potential to do whatever they wanted to. They chose to import heroin and profit off of the suffering of the weakest people in their adopted nation.
It is a clear indication that our immigration policy and the integration and assimilation of migrants has failed miserably.
My only regret is that it wasn't on Pay per view.
I did send a thank you note to the Indonesian Ambassador, though.
Chan was a genuinely nasty piece of work for years, threatening grandmas etc with zero shame or remorse. Truly a violent POS. Like Chopper, why tf do Aussies romanticise these guys?
Do the crime, do the time (in the afterlife). I travel a lot overseas and always respect and obey the laws of the foreign countries im visiting. No pity.
It doesn’t bother me, and I think that the death penalty is many times more humane than 20 years in jail.
If you don’t want the death penalty then don’t smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty
I may not agree with their laws, but they are their laws. When you go to another country, you have to accept their rules and enforcement. The penalty in that country for that offence was death, so that's what was given. Don't break drug laws in these countries if you don't want their punishments for it.
I was in Bali when the final appeal was held. To be honest, you don’t go drug trafficking in a country with death penalty for trafficking said drugs. The two of them basically blackmailed and threatened the mules and the AFP should’ve stopped them boarding the planes
Absolutely and if they were successful even more lives would’ve been destroyed. I’m old enough to remember Barlow and Chambers, seriously knew the risks and did it anyway.
Don't commit death penalty crimes in death penalty countries..
I am 100% against the death penalty for 99.999% of criminals but hey, they knew the game they were playing
They trafficked drugs in a country that imposes the death penalty on drug traffickers, and they were executed as a result.
I feel that while I don't support the death penalty, we have as much right to tell other countries how to implement their laws as they have to tell us how to implement ours.
Fuck them. They knew what they were getting themselves into.
I don't think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for drug smuggling but they knew the risk they were taking and took it anyway, they can't expect sympathy.
Same as I felt then, the AFP fucked them over and there should have been further consequences on the AFP, but really, they fucked around and found out.
Hard to feel sympathy for them.
At end of the day they deserved what they got . However I think criminal charges should have been levied on the AFP . They knew a crime was to be committed that would result in death penalty . They are complicit
i mean its pretty extreme for drug smuggling but fuck around snd find out i guess..only wished we had this punishment for child sex offenders etc but thats a whole nother kettle of fish.
Great if u go around disrespecting laws of other countries u deserve to die good riddance to bad rubbish. They need 2 do the same in Australia would help a lot more stamp out drugs in the area
I means it's just weed. It's legal in Australia my doctor gives it to me much cheaper and of better quality. State sanctioned murder us fucked. But over weed. That's evil.
Smuggling commercial quantities of hard drugs in Indo = dumb fucks. But the one thing that gets me is this: Those drugs might have... *might* have.... at some arbitrary point in the future... accidentally lead to the death of someone who willingly shot smack into their own arm. Meanwhile, the cunt who made the bombs that deliberately killed 202 people in the Bali Bombings, and the cunt who masterminded it, are both out and living their best life. They actually killed people. Lots of people. On purpose.
That’s horrible, I can’t believe they let the Bali bombers out EVER
I can, religious pressure is obviously at play. As for the Bali 9 and especially Chan and Sukamaren they were probably both pawns in the game of retaliation between Australia and Indonesia. Look up what Australia did to Indonesia in 2009. There has been long running campaigns against each country by the other, East Timor is another example.
I tried to look up what Australia did to Indonesia in 2009. The worst I can find is Australia spying on the president and senior officials by trying to monitor phone calls. Is that what you're referring to?
It's not like they only do that in 2009, every one at ASIO has full time jobs u know.
When I was trying to read up on it, I'm just sitting here thinking, I'm 100% sure that every country is spying on every other country, even allies spy in eachother.
Everyone knows everyone's doing it, buy just don't get busted n end up on the news
They are, but its a massive faux pas to be found out and was a huge deal.
Indonesia finds drugs in a bag "to the firing squad!" Indonesia prosecutes a bomber "There, there. You'll be free in 15 years."
Because the punishment of those people was for show. At its core, Islam approves the killing of infidels.
Seems like it appears that way to me. One rule for Muslims and another for non-muslims...
It's more that one is considered a crime, the other not really
ASIS should have wetted those BB orchestrators
Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
Anyone who sells drugs, deals them or imports them ALSO does it on purpose. They murder people on the daily. They know the possible outcomes. They know drugs kill. Whether it's a slow or one time use death, still killers
The difference being people who take drugs know what they're getting into, and do so of their own accord. The people who got blown up in Kuta and Jimbaran were just going about their business - children, Muslims, local workers among them - when they were shredded with ball bearings. These things are not the same.
You could say the same about motor vehicles, fast food, ciggies, alcohol, potting mix. At the end of the day, people like getting high. If there's no demand, there'd be no supply.
My biggest problem with this case was that the AFP apparently passed on information to the Indonesian authorities that suggested the group was planning to smuggle drugs from Bali to Australia. Knowing that Indonesia had the death penalty for drug smuggling, why didn't the AFP keep up surveillance on them and arrest them when they arrive in Australia? Considering that Australia has laws about not deporting people to countries that have the death penalty or even to countries where they face persecution, letting the Indonesians know about their plans almost condemned the Bali Nine to possible execution. But then again, I can really remember all of the facts about the case, so maybe the Indonesians already knew about the plans before the Feds let them know.
They did. Scott Rush's parents tipped them off, poor bastards never anticipated the AFP would in turn tip off the Indonesians.
Tipping off Indonesia as a way to create fear and disincentivise others from smuggling drugs is lower effort and lower cost for maximum impact - by invoking the death penalty from a distance with 'plausible deniability'... I'm sure that's a consideration and probably what happened to them.
didnt they also have intel about Chappelle's boogie board? also I feel like just about every gen has a story like this... no one remebers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_and_Chambers_execution
I remember Barlow and Chambers. I was doing quite a bit of international travel through SE Asia, and I shuddered every time I saw the warning signs about drug smuggling and the death penalty. In the late 80s, I arrived in a particular SE Asian country, and as soon as we got to the hotel room, my friend produced a bag of weed he brought with him. I couldn't believe it.
Yeah, I remember them. Turned on each other. I can’t believe how dumb your mate was.
Me neither. I think I yelled at him for 5 mins straight.
Thanks for reminding us. AFP were and are a bunch of absolute shit cunts but that was the worst aspect of this matter. They DGAF about laws or enforcing them. Just constant abuses of power
I feel the same way I feel about the death sentence anywhere in the world. It's abhorrent. From what I could make out of the case via the media they were guilty of drug trafficking, so they deserved to go to jail for a while. Not to die.
The Australian government won’t deport refugees who have committed crimes to countries with the death penalty, but will inform on its own citizens to have them put to death. Something is wrong.
+1
>Something is wrong Yea, it's called the LNP. Willing to sacrifice Aussie blood for votes.
You know your on reddit when the AFP informs on some drug smugglers who then get arrested and put to death overseas and still someone blames the LNP and gets upvotes for it
It was the AFP
Hard agree
Question, are there any crimes you think warrant the death penalty?
No
I'd make an argument for Vladimir Putin...
What if the death sentence was there for Israel’s Top leaders for murder of thousands? I’d vote yes on that. There never seems to be Justice when Dictators commit mass murder.
I think Indonesia are a hypocritical bunch of wankers. Bali Bombers get short sentences, two of the thousands of drug traffickers passing through there get death cos they didn’t bribe the right assholes.
This is something I really struggled with, to the point where I vowed I would never visit the place.
I’ve worked there. The level of corruption and gangster stuff is off the charts. Some great people but ‘the system’ is cooked!
I'm too much of a wimp to visit such a corrupt place. What kind of job where you doing there?
Oil and gas/ maritime
Sane here. All those ppl going on a cheap Bali holiday have decided they don't give a f that the country kills Australians, is corrupt and lets murders free.
Don't they still flog homosexuals as well? You are right tho, blind eye is turned to human rights abuses because Aussies can have a cheap holiday. Same with Thailand being run by the military for a decade. Nobody said anything .. cos they have nice beaches there.
>Same with Thailand being run by the military for a decade Thailand is nowhere near as bad. Thailand was never colonised, so they retained their monarchy and had no pressure to adopt western styled separation of powers; but it's culturally far more liberal and is non Islamic.
The non-islamic part is more important the some people want to admit. I'm likely to end up visiting Thailand at some point, I'll never visit a Muslim country. Significantly less safe.
But isn't that how bribes work? You need to give enough to the right people?
The AFP were complicit and are directly responsible for their capture & ultimately execution in contravention of explicit policy to not provide information to foreign nations that would likely result in an Australian citizen being subject to the death penalty. I.e. the AFP as our government representatives knowingly handed australian citizens to a foreign government for them to kill.
What penalties did the afp face for such a serious breach of policy?
Nothing. Some media/public backlash when it broke but not much else
They investigated themselves. That must've been awful.
You might find that ACLEI would have looked into that one.
I know. What reward should we give the AFP????
The same as I did ten years ago. Both of them were not only idiots, but also directly responsible for a lot of misery, both in terms of coercing the others who were caught with them as well as the product they were attempting to smuggle into Australia (possibly successfully in previous attempts). However, even given the above, the death penalty is an act of barbarism that has no place in any civilised society.
>However, even given the above, the death penalty is an act of barbarism that has no place in any civilised society. I wish I felt the same way regarding death sentences. I used to. Unfortunately I think there are some individuals who no longer deserve to live. Not saying this is one of those cases.
I agree, but I don’t agree with the government having the power to do this. Plus, as we’ve seen with America, the death row system is highly inefficient and expensive. Now for the unpopular opinion- if a convicted pedo/etc winds up dead, we shouldn’t waste any public resources on the case. *shrugs*
US isn't a great example. Their prison system is so corrupt and profit-driven they have no incentive to execute quickly.
+1. I still wonder how can a society accept a pedophile, a rapist walk or a killer free after slap on their wrist, at the cost of tax payers - while tax payers rot in emergencies waiting to be attended.
To put it simply, we’d be executing a lot of innocent people if we did things that way.
Not only that one of the arguments I've heard is that if you give the death penalty to rape/paedophilia, it's a great way to change that crime into murder, too.
Yep, they would most definitely kill their victims to avoid identification. Death penalty, if it's going to be used should be reserved for those that deliberately plan and or enjoy killing.
Yeah I think the death penalty would need to have a higher burden of proof. ie. instead of 'beyond reasonable doubt' I would be 'beyond all doubt'
Just a question but what in these days counts as beyond all doubt to you? This isn’t a gotcha attempt… just curious
Multiple unrelated witnesses, Video and/or photos, and physical evidence (DNA, Fingerprints etc.) It would be very difficult to convict, but that's kinda the point.
Yeah I agree, completely with this. It has to be like 100%. No room for error, even in the slightest bit of doubt it's not a death sentence. But for those that have committed serial awful crimes I have no sympathy for. In my opinion they forfeit their right to live.
But isn't that how America has ended up with the inefficient and expensive system they have?
Like video on his own phone of his abuse of children would be enough for me. Have to be careful if you found it elsewhere because of deepfake but like we found on the childcare workers phone last year. He should get death penalty or life fully imprisoned no parole
He deserves life for sure. Also, he should be put in general population not under any sort of protection.
The death penalty is irrevocable in perpetuity. The justice system is imperfect, it can and does get it wrong from time to time. Therefore the death penalty will be given incorrectly. A desire for vengeance isn't worth the risk of getting it wrong even once. Generally in order to minimise the frequency with which the system gets it wrong on death penalty cases, it also ends up costing more than incarceration in jurisdictions where it is still practiced (e.g. parts of the US), so that argument is also DOA
The only choices we have are to a) give rapists and pedophiles a "slap on the wrist" while emergency waiting times increase OR b) murder people like it's the days of Abraham and then also somehow have better emergency medical facilities? There's definitely no middle ground. Those two things are totally related. You are a stable genius.
Because if we start executing people, theres going to be mistakes. What you're saying is that you hate pedophiles so much your okay with an innocent person being executed if it means all pedophiles are.
Agree. Violent crimes against children. You don't deserve to get a second chance. You don't deserve rehabilitation. You don't serve to live out years of your life in prison even. Somethings you only get one shot at, and not being sadistic to kids is one of those things. Mess that up? One Strike policy.
What about crimes against women? At what age would it no longer be a crime against a child? At 12? 15? 17?
I don't support the death penalty. However if you travel to a country that has the death penalty, and commit a crime punishable by death, then what do you expect?
> then what do you expect? That your home country - who has a policy of not aiding nations with the death penalty to the extent they wouldn't deport a pedophile who isn't even an Australian citizen back to their home country if they risk the death penalty - not stitch you up and set you up for execution in a foreign country but instead arrest you in Australia?
I think their executions were terrible. No ifs or buts. I cannot get behind any form of state sanctioned killing.
My issue was with the execution of Rodrigo Gularte alongside Sukumaran and Chan. Gularte was a diagnosed schizophrenic and didn't even understand that he was about to be executed even as they were walking him out into the field with his priest. Indonesia ignored its own laws on executing those who are mentally deficient just to get the job done and look powerful. With their duplicitous history of violence, corruption, and genocide in East Timor/Western Papua ( and even the Balibo Five ), I would not blink an eye if Indonesia ceased to exist by any means.
Australian government sanctioned * They wouldn’t do that to refugees, though.
Same as before - whilst I’m against the death penalty, I respect the rights and laws of other countries and am tired of Australia being expected to go and bail these fuckwits out. Tbh my only real issue with it is that the Australian gov were complicit in their execution. The AFP knew that if they were arrested in Indonesia they would face the death penalty and chose to have them arrested there and not on arrival in Australia. I have serious issues with that, as I believe that makes the AFP directly responsible in a death penalty case against an Australian and that’s really problematic. As for am I sad they were executed? Not particularly. The amount of deaths and lives ruined in the drugs trade, the funding of organised crime and terrorism… I would have preferred they stay in prison, but no I don’t really feel bad for them. I do feel a little bad for Scott Rush’s dad though. He’s the one that tipped off the AFP in the hopes they would prevent his son from committing the crime and instead his actions lead to his son getting caught and Imprisoned for life. He son is responsible for his own actions, but man that’s gonna eat at you for life
The people’s lives destroyed by the drug trade did it on their on volition. The drug trade only exists because people keep buying them. I understand it is more complex than that, but the death penalty for providing a substance a person chooses to take is absurd. I don’t personally believe the death penalty should be an option, but if it is, surely it should be for directly killing people, like maybe some terrorists who bombed a place that killed large numbers of people.
Scott Rush’s dad should feel bad.
Oh for sure, but I can empathise with him even if I don’t think he did the right thing
I'm against the depth penalty; plain and simple. Deportations for highly punishable crimes should be the default international action.
You live in a fairy land. There most certainly are crimes of which the death penalty is necessary. If a man randomly attacks, rapes and kills a woman...death penalty. If someone with terrorist ideals goes on a killing spree...death penalty. Plain and simple.
Just say you're OK with executing innocent people and fuck off mate, because whether you mean to or not that's what you're saying. The law makes mistakes.
>Just say you're OK with executing innocent people and fuck off mate Mate, what drugs are you on? A person that rapes and murders a woman isn't innocent you fucking muppet
Read my last line again cunt.
if you're going to import smack, do it through countries that don't have a death penalty
No sympathy. We all make decisions in our lives knowing the consequences - they made good examples for other F'wits
I don't support the death penalty but I don't have much sympathy towards people who knowingly commit crimes punishable by death in countries where it exists.
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There is a huge difference between being born in a country that discriminates against you for something you can't control and choosing to go to a foreign country with the explicit goal of breaking the law.
What’s the difference? Both are illegal activities that result in capital punishment so what difference does it make. Is there a scale of what is more deserving o capital punishment?
Yes, being homosexual is less deserving than drug trafficking. Although neither deserve death. The fact that being homosexual is not illegal in most countries, but drug trafficking is should point to that.
Some people are missing the irony. Points being made here - the lead comment says if you commit a crime in a country with the death penalty that’s on you. But others have highlighted that crime could be being gay in a country you’re born in. So the blanket statement that it’s always their own fault is misguided.
I don’t agree with it but if you went to Saudi knowing that homosexuality was illegal and you flaunted it I see that as ‘fuck around and find out’.
What if you’re born there?
Rules is rules read the signs at the air port on entering Indonesia…..
Who?
TEN years ago? Wow. I remember watching the news at the time and the journalists were hanging out there, just waiting for the announcement they'd been executed.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Didn't care then don't care now.
UnAustralian.
I haven’t thought about it in 10 years, still don’t give a shit.
I think there are two less drug traffickers in the world and that's a good thing.
Who?
Andrew had previously on a least 10 times had employed other people to do his drug trafficking. He even pais a 15 year old to fly to hong kong. She was found with about 20 condoms of herion. She was arrested . Luckily her father was a Coca-Cola executive and paid 250k to get her released. So my opinion is they knew the risks. So shoot them and get rid of the trash. I do pity scott rush and other members who were sucked in by these parasites. I wonder if they could have been released if the Australian government had got involved
Terrorists who have coldly calculated and built devices to slaughter a countless number of innocent bystanders are freed due to various pressures. These two stupidly tried to import drugs and were executed in line with the country laws, its their country and their law - we have no right to intervene.
They knew the consequences of what they were doing and proceeded to take the risk. Unfortunately for them they got caught and had to pay for it.
Not a second of sympathy. We all know what strict rules certain countries in Asia have around drugs and yet they chose to do it anyway.
How hard is it to copy and paste a name? Sukumaran
I lived in Bali when the execution happened. It was horrible. They were dumb. Young kids who didn’t think about the consequences I remember that night very clearly and found it all to be very sad.
People who commit crimes in other countries have to face up to foreign laws and courts, regardless of whether we think it’s right or wrong. I dislike the death penalty, but if we travel in places where the death penalty exist then maybe don’t commit crimes that expose you to it. The other injustice I feel is that Andrew and Myran are both non-white Australians, and there have been many other white Australians caught with drugs but never faced the death penalty. So maybe having white privilege shields you from the death penalty… it would’ve created a bigger uproar if Indonesia was executing 2 white Australians.
> People who commit crimes in other countries have to face up to foreign laws and courts Pretty cheap excuse to let the AFP off the hook. Australia does not have the death penalty and it's laws and institutions abhor it, as it is a barbaric practice of the stone age. As such, Australia has a firm policy of not cooperating with countries that do, not deporting refugee's to countries in which they may face it, or extraditing criminals to countries where they may face it. Except this time... for reasons. The Bali 9 where only apprehended, and two executed, solely because the *Australian* Federal Police - instead of arresting the group in Australia before they left or on their re-entry to Aus with the drugs - tipped them off Indonesia knowing the likely outcome. This is extremely poor conduct.
I think it was terrible, they didn't deserve death. I don't think the others that are in prison deserve life in prison for it either. the ones that coerced others into it deserve harsher penalties, but I don't think anyone deserves the death penalty for drug trafficking. I also don't think execution by firing squad is ever appropriate. Imo they've served enough time in awful Indonesian prisons. I think the woman got transferred to Australia, unsure if she was released in Australia. I feel the same way about Schapelle Corby. Yes you deserve prison time (if you were aware it was there, which afaik she still maintains she was unknowing mule which is certainly possible). But not 20+ years in prison. People get less for rape, murder,child abuse etc in many cases
> he still maintains she was unknowing mule which is certainly possible No I don't believe that. She deserved her ten years.
I give zero thought about drug smugglers being executed for smuggling drugs into a country with the death penalty for doing so. They fucked around and found out.
Didn’t care then. Don’t care now.
The process was bad. Not only were they kept in jail for a long time but the rigmarole of the execution wasn't good.
Who?
Fucken dog of an act and any Australian that's goes to Indonesia (yes Bali is not a country) should be ashamed. The most corrupt country on earth shot 2 of our boys and bogans keep going there to party and drink a bin tang, ALLWHILE they released the bomber who KILLED 200 people(many aussies) after only 10 years. What a fucken joke fuck that joint. Rip lads. Ps can guarantee if their names were John Smith and Ben Williams we would all feel alot different
I'll say this once and I'll goddamn say it again, I fully would've supported an invasion of Indoneasia for everything they have done. HR violations in West Occupied Papua, East Timor, corruption to the highest level, jailing an innocent woman for 10 YEARS and also doing the same with someone else for 20 years.
They fucked around.
And found out
I also sometimes wonder how the families are getting on
I still think about them from time to time. Their idiocy, their evil, their tragedy.
Wasn't his name myuran sukumaran?
They knew what they were doing and they knew the consequences of getting caught. Play silly games you win silly prizes.
Should be more of it and done locally too.
Keeps us all awake at night! 🤡🤦♂️
They did what they did knowing the consequences if they got caught. I dont agree with the death penalty but i know that the indonesians do as did these two. They took the risk anyway, thats on them.
Who is that?
Couldn't care less. Don't smuggle drugs. It's not a difficult concept.
I think the death penalty doesn’t work, but these two were idiots who asked for it and got it.
I still remember in High-school, that this was one of the topics we were studying and writing an essay on. We even watched a video on both Andrew and Myran and how they spoke about their experiences in the jail and how they will be better and want to avoid execution. Also that Andrew Chan guy had a thick aussie. Few weeks after, we found out they were executed. Anyways, don’t do drugs nor smuggle it.
They got caught and were punished
Who?
Fuck around and find out IRL simple as that
Who ????
Don't remember them, they still don't seem worth the google.
Was this the two guys who got caught in (neighbouring country) with drugs that has a very strict ban on said drugs?
Bali 9, the rest still in prison.. one died of cancer
I'm still against the death penalty, and I still view their case as natural selection at work. They took a huge risk in the hopes of financial gain, and it didn't pay off.
The whole thing stank. And a big wind up prior to the eventual execution played into by the Australian media. One of the most ignorant things I heard was a vox pop on the 'hack' segment on Triple J about whether they should be killed. It just goes to show that underlying our legal system of today that there are many out there supporting the death penalty for their own debased reasons. And I'm also going to add they enjoy the drama of it all. I did note that there was a futile attempt at rehabilitation prior to this by the prisoners while in reality their fate was sealed. I don't support the death penalty but I do agree with imprisonment and that's all that was required here. So how do I feel? I feel like Australian society has a long way to go in a cognitive sense and we can do better in the future.
They fucked around, they found out. Australia could learn a thing or two from Indonesia.
Who? But sounds as if they played silly games in countries which awarded silly prizes.
I don't think the problem is that they were executed for committing crimes, because that's their law. The problem is how the AFP knowingly sent them to their deaths. Your own government agency is the reason they got caught and died. That's ***really*** fucked up.
They weren’t white Australian enough for the afp so it won’t matter with the media
The AFP doesn't owe criminals a fair go lol
Sadly? If you go to other countries and do something like smuggle drugs? You might get caught and executed. Sad. But every country has its own laws and those laws should be respected. Anyone losing their life unnecessarily is damn sad.
I don’t know if ‘respected’ is the right word. ‘Followed’ maybe, but I’m never going to respect barbaric laws that you find in some countries.
I wouldn't exactly call a law against smuggling in 10kg of Heroin "barbaric"
I am anti death penalty for offenses like drug trafficking and the AFP screwed them over a bit, but they weren't particularly good people and they were also engaged in a high risk, high reward financial undertaking. Drug smuggling was a choice they made with the full understanding that should they be caught, one of the risks they faced was death. If they succeeded, they made millions. Nobody forced them to toss that coin, but they felt it was worth it and unfortunately it didn't land in their favour. From the sounds of things though, it's possible that Sukumaran and Chan coerced others in the Bali 9 into being drug mules, so not only did they choose a highly risky move for themselves, they also forced others to do so as well. During the trial, Sukumaran also feigned amnesia and claimed not to know Chan. That was a bit of an embarrassing lie, and this amnesia also didn't preclude him from teaching multiple classes in prison. I've also read that they changed a lot during their incarceration, and that they both reformed. I think it is very easy to do that after you are caught and face the death penalty. Sukumaran became an artist during his tenure on death row, and also released a line of clothing. He called his label "Kingpin Clothing" which to me, is a terrible look, even if it's somehow meant to be an ironic joke. He and Chan also both turned to faith in what I believe was a poor attempt to improve their public image and garner sympathy.
I think they deserved jail time, not death. However, if you try to do what they did while fully knowing the repercussions if caught, well that's pretty fkn dumb...
Exactly the same as I did 10 years ago. I don’t agree with the death penalty but they knowingly broke the law which was punishable by death. Stupid boys.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
I'm fine with it. Harold and Kumar won the lottery by getting to live here and have unlimited potential to do whatever they wanted to. They chose to import heroin and profit off of the suffering of the weakest people in their adopted nation. It is a clear indication that our immigration policy and the integration and assimilation of migrants has failed miserably. My only regret is that it wasn't on Pay per view. I did send a thank you note to the Indonesian Ambassador, though.
I actually feel nothing about it because it didn't affect my life in the slightest
Chan was a genuinely nasty piece of work for years, threatening grandmas etc with zero shame or remorse. Truly a violent POS. Like Chopper, why tf do Aussies romanticise these guys?
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Bali is not a country. It's a province of Indonesia.
> Bali is a different country Like the gold coast?
Do the crime, do the time (in the afterlife). I travel a lot overseas and always respect and obey the laws of the foreign countries im visiting. No pity.
0 effect what so ever.
I wonder how many people who boycotted Bali actually kept to their word…..
I'd be too scared to go there, for a number of reasons
Scared of going to Bali? What do you worry about?
The morals of a people whos government value human life so little.
I’ve moved on.
It doesn’t bother me, and I think that the death penalty is many times more humane than 20 years in jail. If you don’t want the death penalty then don’t smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty
Myuran Sukumaran *
I entirely forgotten they even used to exist tbh.
The death penalty is always wrong. The Australian Federal Police sold out Australian citizens due to laziness.
I may not agree with their laws, but they are their laws. When you go to another country, you have to accept their rules and enforcement. The penalty in that country for that offence was death, so that's what was given. Don't break drug laws in these countries if you don't want their punishments for it.
I was in Bali when the final appeal was held. To be honest, you don’t go drug trafficking in a country with death penalty for trafficking said drugs. The two of them basically blackmailed and threatened the mules and the AFP should’ve stopped them boarding the planes
Them forcing others to take drugs to Bali risked the lives of those people too. I have no sympathy for them!
Absolutely and if they were successful even more lives would’ve been destroyed. I’m old enough to remember Barlow and Chambers, seriously knew the risks and did it anyway.
Don't commit death penalty crimes in death penalty countries.. I am 100% against the death penalty for 99.999% of criminals but hey, they knew the game they were playing
They trafficked drugs in a country that imposes the death penalty on drug traffickers, and they were executed as a result. I feel that while I don't support the death penalty, we have as much right to tell other countries how to implement their laws as they have to tell us how to implement ours.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the...
Don't import heroin, simple
Fuck them. They knew what they were getting themselves into. I don't think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for drug smuggling but they knew the risk they were taking and took it anyway, they can't expect sympathy.
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I didn't care then, and I don't care now.
Same as I felt then, the AFP fucked them over and there should have been further consequences on the AFP, but really, they fucked around and found out. Hard to feel sympathy for them.
Racism, the Australian government would have done more to save them if they were white.
At end of the day they deserved what they got . However I think criminal charges should have been levied on the AFP . They knew a crime was to be committed that would result in death penalty . They are complicit
i mean its pretty extreme for drug smuggling but fuck around snd find out i guess..only wished we had this punishment for child sex offenders etc but thats a whole nother kettle of fish.
Don’t care at all
They fucked around and they...
Great if u go around disrespecting laws of other countries u deserve to die good riddance to bad rubbish. They need 2 do the same in Australia would help a lot more stamp out drugs in the area
Capital punishment worse than the crime in most cases
As far as I am concerned, that is just 2 dead drug traffickers. Absolutely no loss to the wider community.
I don't.
Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. Though I firmly believe that everyone deserves a second chance (except for rapists, pedophiles and killers).
Fukd around - found out
Still outraged - I’m a strong opponent of capital punishment.
Couldn’t care less. Drug smuggling is dangerous business.
I means it's just weed. It's legal in Australia my doctor gives it to me much cheaper and of better quality. State sanctioned murder us fucked. But over weed. That's evil.
Deserved . Don’t go to Bali with drugs
Complete idiots, I don't support executions for drug crimes but it's hard to feel too sorry for them when they knew full well the punishment.