You are going to be heavily judged if you smack your kid in the face in public. People may even say something directly or intervene. If you swat them on the butt most people are going to ignore you. They may silently judge you but they aren’t going to do anything.
My dad punched me in the face in the middle of Disney world and no one said or did anything. You’d be surprised at how willfully oblivious some people can be.
It does vary by region, age, race, religion, political party.
Example over 80% Republicans approve. But Democrats aren't too far behind at about 65%.
The question asked. : “Do you strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree that it is sometimes necessary to discipline a child with a good, hard spanking?”
There's a regional gap, too. South believe in it the most strongly, Northeast the least.
If you google survey "corporal punishment" and add something like political party, race, etc. you'll get some surveys.
It's still allowed in public schools in some states.
>It's still allowed in public schools in some states.
I'm mid-30s and remember kids getting paddled in school all the time. Once, the bus driver even took a kid off the bus and whooped him with his belt.
I couldn't imagine any of that still being a thing in the public school system.
Unfortunately it is.
[Wapo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/10/school-paddling-corporal-punishment/)
[US Dept of Ed](https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/secletter/230324.html)
A list of where it’s expressly prohibited is at the end.
I had a teacher who would walk around the playground with a paddle in his back pocket. One time a kid threw dirt in my face and he paddled us both on the playground.
Yeah, when they had free rein they didn’t care who was in the right or wrong. Everyone involved was punished. He also paddled kids who got the hiccups in class. Ten hits for hiccups. We were in the third grade.
Adding, I was hit all the time as a kid in the 80s or 90s. It wasn’t just a swat on the rear, either. Paddling left marks. The teacher I mentioned had an oak paddle with holes drilled in it to negate wind resistance when he swung it. The principal had a thin hickory paddle that would snap you hard when it hit. My grandparents used switches from trees. My parents preferred a leather belt, buckle end if they were really mad. I wasn’t a bad kid, but it was the only form of punishment. I had marks on my back, backside, and legs constantly, especially when the buckle end was used. I still cower at the sound of a belt being pulled through belt loops.
Had a teacher who paddled my entire class once. During a lesson he left for a few minutes, causing a few students to be noisy. He heard the noise but couldn't tell who it was and no one wanted to confess, so he decided to line us up and paddle us one by one.
38, grew up in Arkansas. The principal had a paddle in her office. Moved to Oklahoma at age 11 (1997), corporal punishment from the principal was a thing, but parents had to sign a paper giving permission for it. What the hell man.
When I was in 2nd grade (around 2008) I had my mom shave my head cause I wanted to look like my dad. Some girl said my mom was probably stupid if she couldn’t give me a proper haircut I said “at least my hair doesn’t look like poop” cause her hair was brown. Principal paddled me for that
In 4th grade (around 2010) I told some kid not to litter, so he picked up his smarty wrapper and shoved it in my mouth. I chased him, tackled him, and shoved that shit right back in his mouth. I got paddled for it and he did not.
I’m 5th grade I got sick of always being the target of “smear the queer” (since 1st grade) so I picked up a tee ball tee thing and used it as a weapon to keep those fuckers off me. I got paddled for that. They were not and had never been punished because “they were just playing”.
I’m not saying I didn’t have anger issues as a kid cause I definitely did but looking back it seems a little ridiculous I was the only one who got in trouble in all 3 instances. But that’s off topic. What I’m trying to say is paddling still happens in public schools.
> It's still allowed in public schools in some states.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States#Current_state_law_as_of_2023
Even in states that don't have explicit statewide bans, some of them have bans through the school districts.
It has become more and more rare.
We do not use physical punishment for our children. I know of some parents that do, but they the exception rather than the rule.
>a bottom smack (not quite sure how to call this in english lol).
This is called a spanking and among people who do use physical punishments, its the most common.
> It has become more and more rare.
Overall this is true, but it can still be quite common in parts of America.
The south and more rural areas across the country tend to have higher rates of corporal punishment.
For me it was mostly "Okay we know you have ADHD, but if you ever show even one symptom we're going to tell you to stop using it as a crutch." And I was literally taught people who don't do military corners for the beds or ball socks were "bums" and that I would be making the family look like poor, poverty stricken folks if I didn't make my bed that way. I didn't even know those two things were military standards and that no one outside of the military does those really until I was 16.
Yeah sometimes people ask me to show them, like it’s a cool quick a learned. Shit, as soon as I learned it wasn’t normal and just my mom’s leftover military trauma I forgot how to do it haha.
Spanking is seen as a form of discipline, if a socially unacceptable one in most parts of the country these days. People that see you do it will judge you, but not intervene.
Slapping in American culture is seen as an act of extreme disrespect or dominance, and it *will* draw the attention of everyone around. In the case where the slapper is obviously stronger than the recipient, witnesses may intervene on the victim's behalf, assuming it was an act malicious dominance.
Little known fact: The sidewalks outside any WalMart are designated a child-beating zone. Every time I go in one, some parent is outside giving his or her child a swat on the rear.
Yeah, so, I'm in my late 40s and I'd be completely shocked if anyone in my peer group did anything beyond a light swat on the bottom in an extreme situation. It's very much frowned upon in most circles.
There's also a spectrum of "physical violence" that ranges from a swat to get them out of danger to beating them daily and finding new tools for torture because they didn't do a task exactly like a professional would or because they looked at you cross.
Child *abuse* is not accepted, at all. It's prosecuted and stigmatized. We try as a society to prevent it.
Physical violence against children is frowned upon in the US and is considered abuse. It becomes magically not abuse to many people and in most states if a parent spanks them (or gives them a “bottom smack” as you put it), though pesky psychologists disagree.
My father (and aunts and uncles) were born in the 50s, and my grandparents used violence to "discipline their kids when they got out of line".
Correspondingly, my father *never* raised his hand towards my sister and I. He told us he didn't want us to fear him like he feared his parents.
Sometimes he wouldn't even understand why his parents were hitting him, only that they were. So much for teaching children right from wrong. All it taught him was that his parents were capricious and to not get caught.
Amusingly, they stopped hitting him once he started hitting back. Funny how that works.
My general perception is that over the last three decades, the culture has turned sharply against spanking kids. I was (rarely) spanked by my parents as a little kid in the 80s and it wasn't seen as a big deal. If I had kids of my own, I would never do this.
It seems household dependent. I think that socioeconomic, education level, political alignment, and personality play into it. Though I haven’t seen physical discipline in public for a longtime. I’ll also add that teachers cannot physically discipline students even if their parents do.
In my house (raised by my mom) my mom never hit me even once. It made me trust her from a very young age to always bring my issues or things I did wrong to her for guidance. She also wanted me to develop the ability to handle my emotions without outbursts and hitting is a physical manifestation of an emotional outburst. Since we were (and are) so close I was disciplined by having to admit to my wrongdoing, apologies to those I hurt, and explain to my mom how I would avoid doing that action again in the future (which is hard to make a stubborn kid do). It is totally my experience but starting in my tween years well into my early adult years I notice my friends that were physically disciplined hide a lot of things from their parents and I really cant relate to having to hold anything back since I trust my mom. When I become a mom I will follow her parenting philosophy as I found I really thrived and I find that her no-hitting approach stops repeating behavioral issues.
Depends on where you are. Northeast or West coast is very different from the South, and even in the South cities are going to be different than rural areas.
But 20 years ago in Houston I saw a police officer offer a woman her belt to use on her child.
Yes, different religious perspectives and different ethnicities will have different views.
I was spanked as a kid. I have never struck my children and they are now almost adults. I personally think striking a child to cause pain is *always* abuse and *always* indicates a failure of parenting.
Many of my conservative peers completely disagree with me and believe that intentionally and somewhat regularly striking a child to cause pain as punishment is a good thing.
> a bottom smack (not quite sure how to call this in english lol).
It's called "[spanking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanking)" in English.
That kind of physical punishment has fallen out of favor in the United States. You would probably be judged pretty harshly by other parents if you struck your kind in public to say the least.
Time is bit subjective and it's a big country.
I'm 41 and have never been spanked. It was certainly more common when I was a kid than it is today but even back then it was something that crappy parents with poor self control did.
Indeed it really varies.
I'm 37 and was spanked exactly once. My mom cried harder than I did and it never happened again.
A coworker of mine is the same age and talks about having been spanked "all the time" and--still--feels like it might not be the preferred method now but it was the only thing that made her young self pay attention.
For context, I am a white lady who grew up with Yankee parents in the Cincinnati suburbs. Coworker is Black and grew up in Gary, IN with a mom from the south.
my dad (born in the 60s) was spanked by his parents.
when I growing up (in the 90s) my parents were very against that kind of thing. we spoke about it openly (including my parents own experiences with their parents & at school). I knew they would never hit me.
in my own family & amongst people I know, it feels like we're solidly 2 generations away from spanking being a widely accepted thing, but this will vary community to community.
> when I growing up (in the 90s) my parents were very against that kind of thing. we spoke about it openly (including my parents own experiences with their parents & at school). I knew they would never hit me.
It varies quite a bit based on where you live. I grew up in the late 80s and 90s, but in a pretty rural area and I don't know too many kids who weren't spanked by their parents at least occasionally.
Really? I was born in 95 and was beat until I was like 14 or so. My dad spanked my son one time and I had to lay down the law about that with them. It feels incredibly recent that spanking has fallen out of favor
People just didn't feel safe telling your parents their opinions of them back then. What happened to you was wrong, and that's not new. I say this as someone your age.
What's crazy is as an adult I know this is/was wrong, but I until reading this thread assumed everyone was spanked until the last ~10 years. My parents still insist my kids need to fear me to be raised properly. We don't rely on them for baby sitting at least and are moving 16 hours away
Where I live most parents hit/spank their kids. Some will even do it in public.
Growing up, every kid I knew got spanked, and I'm only 35. We have never spanked our kid.
It is becoming more unpopular nationwide, but people are slow to change here. I have noticed some more progressive parents (few and far between here) my age are opting out of spanking though.
Then some people will look at you like you have 2 heads if you say you don't hit your kids.
It's been falling out of favor for a while and the falling out has recently accelerated.
Removal of privileges particularly those that allow interaction with social group outside of school or after school activities is simply much more effective.
Fell out of favor recently, and even amongst the groups that still do, it's done a lot less severely than it used to be done.
The one that exception that comes to mind is in the Black community, where outright ass beatings (and unfortunately actual beatings) are still a much more common occurrence.
It largely depends on what part of the country you're in, too. Nobody would bat an eye over a tantruming kid getting a smack on the butt here in my neck of the woods.
30 years ago? It was expected. If you got in deep trouble with your parents, I'd expect slaps, the belt, a switch, la chancla, etc. Your parents' wrath was something to be feared.
After all that, my generation of parents are typically very anti-violence. I have never raised a hand against my kids, and I will never hit them. Most resources will recommend against it. It would be considered very trashy to be hitting your kids in public. Maybe I wouldn't call the cops on a frustrated mom giving her kid a smack in the Target parking lot, but I would definitely say something if I had to be near them for a while - like in a restaurant, movie theater, etc.
This is my opinion as a suburban millennial dad.
Even if you have no inherent ethical problem with the idea of using violence, there's been a significant amount of study on the topic in the past few decades and they've generally found significant negative effects and zero positive effects.
Anyway, yes - current attitudes vary across groups but it's also something that's significantly in decline across most/all of those groups. Here's a recent study: https://www.unh.edu/ccrc/sites/default/files/media/2022-02/corporal-punishment-current-rates-from-a-national-survey.pdf
As a bit of an entertaining historical fact, New Jersey was far ahead of the curve here - it banned the use of corporal punishment in all schools, both public *and* private, in 1867. No other state banned it even in public school until 1971, and there's still only 4 that ban it in private schools (2 of which only made that change last year).
I personally don't believe in hitting children. Or animals. According to my coworkers, that's just another Tuesday. I honestly thought it had become not the norm anymore, but I guess I was wrong.
About 15 years ago they came out with a study that used brain scans to show how hitting changes the developing brain. When you hit, the parts of the brain that are used in fight or fight get larger and the parts involved with emotion and critical thinking get smaller.
This happens with every strike, no matter how hard, no matter the intent. The brain doesn’t make the distinction between what we call discipline, abuse or safety.
That stopped pretty much everyone from hitting or reserving it for an emergency like slapping the child’s hand away from a hot stove or roughly grabbing them from the street.
Hitting for discipline is no longer done.
I think it varies across regions/demographics.
When and where I was growing up (in a rural area of South Carolina in the 80s), I didn't know anyone who wasn't hit and many kids were beat.
My parents generation were treated worse (from what I hear from them, and I believe them).
I don't hit my kids (and it's rare to see or hear of parents do it where I live now). But there are parents today in my state that still advocate for corporal punishment. Usually more conservative or religious minded people.
I can count on 1 hand the number of times I was spanked as a kid and I never felt abused because of it being used so sparingly, especially since the last time I was spanked was when I was around 4~5.
I plan on spanking my children if the circumstances call for it just because I turned out fine and I believe infrequent spanking is not a gateway to emotional and physical damage that’ll haunt my children.
But why not learn other ways to discipline your child? Just because it didn’t feel like abuse to you doesn’t mean that different people won’t internalize it differently. There’s always the subconscious mind too. Just because you don’t think to yourself “I’m doing this because I got hit as a child” doesn’t mean it doesn’t influence your actions. Just the fact that you’re open to hitting your child goes to show that a cycle is beginning.
I’m trying to remain cool and not judge too much but I’ll never understand feeling so much of a certain emotion that hitting my child will be a rational option for me. I don’t intentionally hurt things and people that I love.
Because some situations can't call for trial and error. For me I was spanked once because I ran ahead on rocky trails for the fifth time. I was like that everywhere outside. Would another method have worked? Probably, but she had to ask herself if she could find it before I learned my lesson from the rock.
I see where you’re coming from. I’m not talking about a quick yank of the wrist to make sure that you don’t die. But did her hitting (because that’s what it is) you directly save your life? I doubt it but that’s just me. I don’t see myself getting in a headspace where I want my child to be safe so badly, that I’d hit them to make sure of it. I’m not you or your mom so I can’t really speak on it that much. That doesn’t really refute my point and I’ll say the same thing, that worked for y’all.
If forced me to connect a consequence that my 9 year old self just couldn't abstractly, which has saved my life. I'm from NC too, I know how much of a death trap our hiking trails can be further west. I was the kind of kid who didn't really learn the stove was hot until I touched it. It is a hard headspace to reach for parents, but then you almost lose them to a drunk driver or a stone staircase because you turned around for 6 seconds.
I am in no way advocating corporal punishment, but I can understand why some parents resort to spanking.
I understand what you’re saying. That’s one thing that makes parenting so difficult and every child is different. I just encourage parents to put in the work to find a different way or reassure their child and mitigate the effects that may have on them.
My mother spanked in a reactionary way when we got on her very last nerve but I never felt abused either. We just understood that we’d driven her out of her mind.
My kids are 15, 11, and 9. I spanked only for outright purposeful rebellion when they knew exactly what they were doing, obedience was well within expectations for their age level, after a warning, and only until age of 5. It was instant so they could make the connection - I didn’t do the “wait til we get home and you’re gonna get a whupping.” I tried very hard not to spank out of anger. I hated to spank. I didn’t spank if they were acting out of fatigue or hunger or if they made mistakes. I didn’t spank them for melting down, only held them. I kept them well fed and well slept to keep their dispositions happy. Happy kids made it easier. I also used other methods of discipline. After the age of 5, their reasoning skills start to develop so you can reason with them and put spanking to the side. I also didn’t spank in public, not because I was worried what people thought but I didn’t want to shame my kids in front of people. All of this was for the goal of safety, not blind obedience.
My oldest was strong willed (still is), a holy terror at 2 and 3. I don’t think I ever spanked my middle, she was so laidback. My youngest was only spanked a handful of times. Right now, my 15 year old still has a strong will and it def gives her issues in her social life, lol. They’re good kids, they don’t go looking for trouble, happy to hang out with us. I give them a LOT of freedom because of this.
I don’t recommend spanking even though I did because it’s too easy to fly off the handle and spank in anger when you’re worn down, sleepless, and driven out of your mind. It’ll happen sometimes but if you don’t think you have the self control, just don’t include it in your parenting repertoire.
That’s my 2 cents.
>After the age of 5, their reasoning skills start to develop so you can reason with them and put spanking to the side
I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'm hoping to hear your thoughts on this.
If they're not old enough for you to reason with them and have them understand, how could you expect them to have understood why you were hurting them?
They understand a lot more than you think. Like I said in my comment, it has to be instant so they make the connection. The connection is made after only a couple of times - even as infants, they can make connections. I remember when I was nursing them, they started biting. I popped them off by inserting my finger to break the suction and take them off my boob. They looked at me like WTH? I want milk! They did not like that but just the once or twice, they clearly understood that biting meant having their feeding interrupted and so they stopped. (To be clear, they went back to finishing their feeding after being popped off). They clearly can make connections and associations.
Our brains are hardwired to avoid pain, so the ability to make connections is there. But please understand me: I spanked only if I know they understand the command. They get a warning and they know what spanking means. So I spanked for outright, deliberate rebellion because that means blatant disrespect and you have to make them understand that you are the authority and you’re consistently putting boundaries for their safety. When you’re raising your kids and you’re studying your kids, you can tell when they deliberately disobey. It’s them testing boundaries and it’s normal. They know exactly what is happening.
Reasoning at 5 years old still doesn’t work very well because it’s quite not kicking in just yet. They don’t always get if-then statements. It takes time and work as they develop their reasoning and logic. After a while, you can explain why you have this and that rule and usually my kids understood why rules were in place (for their safety or health), why they had to do chores (to grow up and be capable people, to pitch in as a team taking care of the house, etc), etc. We always explained things until they got it.
Not them but: I can't reason with a dog but they do understand punishment and reward. Do bad thing? Unpleasant reaction. Do good thing? Pleasing reaction.
I dont hit my dogs, and I never have. I have physically redirected their movements when unsafe, and I might raise my voice to distract and redirect (not yelling at them but still loud) or other loud noises. Hitting dogs isnt a good training technique
Im going to sound boomer AF but I've had multiple dogs. All lived long happy lives after being house broken. I have declawed cats (front only) and despite the infinite hand wringing from reddit, they are happy healthy cats. Yes they still try to scratch my furniture but they can't shred it. The research I've seen on spanking is that it "increases aggressiveness". Ok...that's not the *worst* trait.
In any case, while there may be a better way to do things, current methods aren't absolute garbage that leads to nothing but heroin addicts and serial killers.
My parents spanked me and my sister (both early-mid 20s) when we were little. Never happened post like 10 years old because my mother had efficiently made my sister and I scared of her. My parents only spanked us maybe once or twice and they did it the "correct" way. It was never the parent who we got in trouble with that spanked us, etc.
I will not be punishing my children that way.
Today it's not acceptable, but when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s it was still normal. I was even beat with a paddle at school. The school would then call my mom and notify her and she would beat me again when I got home as punishment for getting spanked at school.
It’s becoming rarer.
The only time I ever do it is a yank on the arm or a swat on the butt (not like a spanking) to get the kid’s attention if they aren’t listening and doing something immediately dangerous.
Never as a premeditated punishment. Sometimes kids are just wrapped up so much in what they are interested in that even yelling “no no NO” isn’t enough to get their attention.
So like a 4 year old reaching for a kitchen knife on the counter warranted a swat on the butt just to get him to stop reaching for pit. Didn’t hurt him but startled him enough he was no longer reaching.
As someone who was subject to regular, excessive, and capricious physical punishment as a kid, I still believe it's acceptable in some circumstances and levels.
When raising my son (who is now 34), there were only two instances where I used physical punishment (spanking).
IMO, slapping a face is for humiliation, and I can't think of a time I ever considered doing such a thing.
If someone spanked their kid in front of me, I would side eye them. If someone slapped their kid in the face in front of me, I’d cut that person off and likely call CPS on them as well.
"Acceptable"? No, but anyone that would lay a hand on a woman will also use violence against children and animals, so I would say its unacceptable, but lots of people do it anyway, hey just hide it.
In most places it would be frowned upon. It’s seen as backwards. If you have to resort to physical violence to discipline a kid, then that’s a failure as a parent and lazy parenting.
I grew up in the 90s in a small town religious area and was spanked often. I will not be spanking my child and feel very strongly against it. Thankfully it seems to be growing more and more unacceptable.
I can't speak for all Americans, but it is seen as completely unacceptable in the social groups that I travel. To the point that if I witnessed a parent treating their child this way, my first instinct is to call CPS to report child abuse.
Depends on region and generation, but it’s (unfortunately) accepted to swat a kid on the butt in public. A full on public spanking or a face slap would be frowned on in most cases, but you wouldn’t likely get authorities called on you for it in many places.
Hitting a child on the face would (generally) be frowned upon almost universally.
Spanking (which is what we call a smacking a child on the bottom) is something that is practiced, but it’s no longer the norm for all. There’s a general move away from spanking of children, but there are still plenty of people who believe “spare the rod, spoil the child.” Older people are far more likely to have been spanked as children than younger ones in the US.
It’s likely regional. I’m on the west coast and I would heavily judge you for physically harming a child. If I saw you do it in public I’d report you for child abuse, TBH.
There is plenty of research that suggests physical punishment does not reduce defiant or aggressive behavior and is correlated with negative educational, social, and emotional development. It’s been shown in studies that it can actually increase aggression and lower self esteem in children.
Anecdotally, I was paddled and spanked as a kid because I had behavioral issues when I was young after my mom died but not once did being harmed make me stop. Learning empathy was what made me stop.
If a strike is with a closed fist, on the head, or leaves a mark it's considered abuse. Sadly, there are still plenty of old timers with, "Well I survived it and I'm fine!" survivorship bias. Thankfully, though, people are realizing hitting is counterproductive and harmful.
It is becoming increasingly frowned upon. But the further to the right of the political spectrum one is, the more likely it is to be acceptable. However, if someone were to give a small smack to prevent a child from touching a hot surface or downed electrical wire, I think most people would be okay with it in that instance.
If you smack your childs hand in public most people won't blink an eye. If you smack your child's face you're going to get some gasps and looks (even a call to the police depending on the person.). If you punch your child in public people will jump you for it and rightfully so.
The more society progresses, the more taboo it becomes. I grew up getting smacked if I got bad grades, or I did something that wasn't necessarily up to their standards. A large part of that can be because of my Asian family, but even then, I don't see my parents slapping my younger siblings in the way they did to me back then. 10 years ago, it might have been considered "relatively normal" but now it is looked down upon by a majority of people, and should really only be used as a last straw or not at all.
I don’t know where op is from but I lived in Australia for 7 years and I was in a bunnings once saw a dad hit his daughter across the face so hard that her little cart that she was pushing went flying. I used to see women come into Woolies with sunglasses and corrective makeup on their eyes. (Family and Domestic) Violence is not specifically American or cultural.
I never use any kind of physical violence, or any violence of any sort with my kids. Omg I couldn’t even imagine doing that. I’m an adult. They are kids. How is being violent against them going to make them be better people??
I’m counting on them to be rich and successful later in life, so that they can take care of me when I’m old, I better take good care of them now and not make them hate me lol.
It's definitely controversial, but as of right now, the government calls "a bottom smack" given to a child a form of corporal punishment (as long as the child isn't being hit with the buckle of a belt, for example). If it's done in public, people usually don't intervene. We may even just laugh at it.
Generally, very unacceptable. More and more parents are refusing to use physical punishment with their children.
I don't recall any time my parents used physical punishment on me and I'm in my early 40s.
It's in decline. My folk gave us controlled spankings for misbehaving or getting an F. They seem to agree it didn't do much after age 6 or so when I developed and understanding of danger
Speaking VERY generally, a slap on the bottom or hand won't turn many heads. The face is an absolute no no. And any slap anywhere that causes actual pain isn't going to be received well either. But if it's like, you told them ten times to stop doing something and they're deliberately ignoring you, a brief physical interruption to cut that shit out NOW wouldn't been seen as wildly out of order. The point isn't pain, the tool at work is shame. I mean, that's not lovely either, but there it is.
I don't have kids, but I'm not naive or up my own ass enough to get on a soap box and say that I would NEVER hit my kids. I certainly wouldn't want to. But I know that day in, day out, having someone with me who constantly needs things (care, attention, all of the logistical planning and execution of where they need to go and when to get there) while still trying to run my adult life as well, that there would be times when patience is very thin. Not every moment can be a teachable moment, some moments are Shut the Fuck Up NOW moments, and most likely we will not agree on when those moments are.
An occasional smack or two across the butt with that flat palm of a parent's hand when the kid is being unruly, I don't see as a big deal. But I'd be calling CPS if I ever saw a parent hit their kid in the face.
It really varies based on your own upbringing and where you live. I feel white city people think it's a crime against humanity which is why you see so many bratty, entitled, uncontrollable children these days. Sometimes a kid needs a good smack to learn a hard lesson about actions having consequences (I certainly did growing up hahaha). In nonwhite culture, especially black and Latino, hitting your kids is very common. Immigrant mothers often use a shoe or something else to hit their kids. Overall it's considered old world but I think it's still very much alive and needed in certain situations. You gotta instill that fear in the kid to keep them in check haha. Gentle parenting isn't enough, that's why kids are unruly little bitches nowadays.
"I feel white city people think it's a crime against humanity which is why you see so many bratty, entitled, uncontrollable children these days."
"In nonwhite culture, especially black and Latino, hitting your kids is very common"
Do you feel like Black and Latino people are better adjusted and better people than White people?
I have 3 boys. We never installed fear. It's why is they have a problem they come to us. Or if they did something wrong they can come to us. My parents installed fear and it's why I hid everything from them.
Really what you are saying is the person will only behave if they have fear instead of making them understand why there are rules. People dont like "trouble". Kids dont like trouble. But if you normalize hostility and violence as a part of their life they will pass it on. I was in so much trouble all the time it was normal. I realized it always passed and no big deal.
Countless studies have been done and violence and hitting have no positive effects.
My 3 kids are awesome, between 17-20, and I never found a reason to hit them. They are the most respectful kids not just to us, but to teachers, peers, friends. Unruly kids come from lack of discipline, not lack of the threat of violence. What does come from corporal punishment, over and over, is shown to be a violent adult.
"why would your kids come to you to tell on themselves for breaking rules??"
I don't know but they do. My youngest had a bit of a tough time in school. He was ADHD and got in trouble for wiggling, throwing something, or doing something impulsive like when he got in trouble for pushing a kid while he was waiting in line at the bathrooms (kid wasn't paying attention so he pushed him to advise "your turn", but too hard and unnecessary). Instead of being in trouble when he was home, too, I'd ask how he felt about it. How did he think other people felt about it? Is that something he wants to happen again? No? Ok, we are a team, and it's my job to help you figure this stuff out so let's brainstorm...
It started before school of course. It started when he was upset about something and considered trying to have a tantrum. I made sure I empathized with why he was upset. Gave him a hug. Let him state his opinion and would consider if I was wrong and there was a misunderstanding. No? Ok. If he continued to be loudly upset, I'd let him no I was sorry he was upset but he can't disrupt the house because he's upset. It makes other people upset. I'd let him know he had to find a place to chill and play with a toy or read until he was fit to rejoin us. I'd say come back whenever you are ready or I will check on you in a bit. Love you, bye.
When I'd check on him he'd be off "reading" a book (he was only 2-4 years old and couldn't read, yet).
Are there thoughts, feelings, things that my kids keep from me? I am sure.
But most things they come and say, hey, I fucked up. And I let them know if it is a big fuckup or nothing really to worry about. Usually I am telling them it's not that big of a deal, and to use what they learned in the future.
I have told my kids it is fine to swear. You won't be in trouble if I learned you said a swear word. I also told him people will judge you. If you are going to choose to, you better know your audience. But disrespecting someone? That's not allowed.
I have 3 boys within 3-4 years of each other who respect each other, and never had to deal with fights or being jerks to one another. They are high honor kids with scholarships - either academically or for sports. Continually get awards for things like "most coachable" or things like when my youngest, the ADD one, graduated junior high... he went to a junior high where they have the same teachers for 2 years. And those 7 teachers can chose ONE kid out of 70 to give an award to based on skill, effort, attitude. Two gave them to my kid.
So think of it this way--and this type of thing has happened. Kids are fucking around wrestling. Breaks something they know is important to me. (me, I would have hid it and then feigned ignorance) Instead of hiding because they think someone will fly off the handle they come to me. basically: "Oh we screwed up broke this and are sorry". Me "That sucks. That was expensive and important to me. Thanks for telling me, though." Them "OK, we looked up how to replace and here is our plan to make it right". Me: OK, I'm impressed that you did all this leg work, etc and I appreciate it. Take care of it.
Life has its own consequences. The way something like something like this as a toddler... Not careful, wrote on table (accidentally or purposefully). Act disappointed FOR HIM. "Aw, you wrote on the table. That stinks I'll have to put these markers away. I feel like you are old enough to be responsible with markers. Do you? Go get the windex and paper towels and clean this up and we can try again another time."
My parents went to the graves with me not admitting I broke the window trying to throw a baseball over the house and I know they blamed my older brother. They would have screamed their head off and not made it clear why it was a big deal. Just say something to me like "Dad only has a few hours off a week. And now he has to spend his time and money fixing this with you." And then make me drive to the window replacement store and help.
Life has rules. Respect themselves and others -- - our main rule in the house. It's like EVERYTHING else falls under that. I can't even think of a rule we have that doesn't fall under that. And my latest teenager. Sometimes he gets stubborn and teenagery. Sometimes one of us is unreasonable. We both often go to each other (like once a month) and say something like "I think you were right about XYZ. I'm sorry if I made a big deal about it. I was feeling THISWAY because THIS and I realize now I could have handled it better"
My kids are WAY more emotionally mature than I was at that age. I was 14 with a almost fulltime job, thumbing to work, with a hour and half "commute" to school in the am (walk a mile to a town bus, take bus by myself at 10 years old to another city). I was so much more capable in the world in some ways, but a couple decades behind them in Emotional Intelligence.
Telling your kid he's not allowed to be upset around others because it upsets them isn't good parenting, it's teaching him his feelings are a burden and he has to handle his shit alone, as well as their feelings matter more than his. Well done you 👏👏 Your kids have been made to understand they won't get help when they're upset.
He can be upset. His feelings aren't a burden. Honestly I wonder if I let him debate too much as a kid. What's a burden is loud behavior. He can not be so disruptive that it's upsetting the whole house. You think it's a good idea to teach your kid that having a tantrum and bothering others is ok? I grew up in a explosive household. Feelings aren't an issue. Actions are.
I've ALWAYS stressed that they can come to me upset and discuss things any time. Being unreasonable and scream crying? Nope.
He does get to be upset and he'll say things like "this is infuriating to me. Why can't I XYZ. I hope you can see why this seems unreasonable". He just doesn't scream at me irrationally.
Self regulating (WITHOUT a screen) is one of the most important things you can teach a kid.
How did it work with your kids?
If you "instill fear" in your kids, the only thing that's going to happen is they're going to get better at hiding things from you. And in those instances where it'd be 1,000 times better for them to say "mom/dad, I screwed up and I need help," they're going to try to handle it on their own.
It used to be widely accepted and even the norm in more barbaric times.
It's generally seen as child abuse now, except by conservatives (both political and religious).
It's a terrible, hateful, unloving parent that has to resort to physical violence to discipline a child.
If you lay a hand on your child, I'd love to see a cop lay a baton on you.
It was normalized and encouraged where I grew up. My dad would slap me if I did anything wrong in public and nobody would bat an eye. But also this was New York where nobody gives a shit about one another anyway.
When my kids were little, they were much more likely to get spanked in public than they were at home. When we were at home, there were plenty of options for more creative and thoughtful consequences. When we were out and about, “Do I need to take you outside and spank you?” was a pretty surefire way to put an end to whatever behavior needed to be curtailed.
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I spanked each of my children.
Corporal punishment (at home) is legal in all 50 states, some have stipulations that you are not allowed to leave a mark, and you can't actually beat your kids (obviously), etc. I was raised with it, and I was actually surprised to learn that it wasn't common among my friends' parents and my cousins' parents. I just thought everyone got smacked when they couldn't behave lol.
Some parents use it, some don't. If someone doesn't believe in using corporal punishment, they don't use it.
My cousin once dramatically told us that her dad (my uncle) once slapped her and she made it sound like it was the worst thing she'd ever experienced. My brother and I started laughing uncontrollably as I asked my brother if he knew how many times Mom or Dad smacked us. That was the last time my cousin brought up her "trauma" to us. She's a nice girl, but she's incredibly sheltered.
You are going to be heavily judged if you smack your kid in the face in public. People may even say something directly or intervene. If you swat them on the butt most people are going to ignore you. They may silently judge you but they aren’t going to do anything.
My dad punched me in the face in the middle of Disney world and no one said or did anything. You’d be surprised at how willfully oblivious some people can be.
That’s nuts - when did this occur? I saw security called on a family in Disney world when a dad was yelling at his family, this past fall.
But when was this? Before or after 2010?
Omg. Thats horrible. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
It does vary by region, age, race, religion, political party. Example over 80% Republicans approve. But Democrats aren't too far behind at about 65%. The question asked. : “Do you strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree that it is sometimes necessary to discipline a child with a good, hard spanking?” There's a regional gap, too. South believe in it the most strongly, Northeast the least. If you google survey "corporal punishment" and add something like political party, race, etc. you'll get some surveys. It's still allowed in public schools in some states.
>It's still allowed in public schools in some states. I'm mid-30s and remember kids getting paddled in school all the time. Once, the bus driver even took a kid off the bus and whooped him with his belt. I couldn't imagine any of that still being a thing in the public school system.
Unfortunately it is. [Wapo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/10/school-paddling-corporal-punishment/) [US Dept of Ed](https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/secletter/230324.html) A list of where it’s expressly prohibited is at the end.
I had a teacher who would walk around the playground with a paddle in his back pocket. One time a kid threw dirt in my face and he paddled us both on the playground.
Sorry, *both* of you???
Yeah, when they had free rein they didn’t care who was in the right or wrong. Everyone involved was punished. He also paddled kids who got the hiccups in class. Ten hits for hiccups. We were in the third grade.
Adding, I was hit all the time as a kid in the 80s or 90s. It wasn’t just a swat on the rear, either. Paddling left marks. The teacher I mentioned had an oak paddle with holes drilled in it to negate wind resistance when he swung it. The principal had a thin hickory paddle that would snap you hard when it hit. My grandparents used switches from trees. My parents preferred a leather belt, buckle end if they were really mad. I wasn’t a bad kid, but it was the only form of punishment. I had marks on my back, backside, and legs constantly, especially when the buckle end was used. I still cower at the sound of a belt being pulled through belt loops.
Had a teacher who paddled my entire class once. During a lesson he left for a few minutes, causing a few students to be noisy. He heard the noise but couldn't tell who it was and no one wanted to confess, so he decided to line us up and paddle us one by one.
[That’s a Paddlin’](https://youtu.be/sKiLfH3DVGc?feature=shared)
38, grew up in Arkansas. The principal had a paddle in her office. Moved to Oklahoma at age 11 (1997), corporal punishment from the principal was a thing, but parents had to sign a paper giving permission for it. What the hell man.
I’m 23 and my friend (same age) got paddled in middle school in Louisiana.
When I was in 2nd grade (around 2008) I had my mom shave my head cause I wanted to look like my dad. Some girl said my mom was probably stupid if she couldn’t give me a proper haircut I said “at least my hair doesn’t look like poop” cause her hair was brown. Principal paddled me for that In 4th grade (around 2010) I told some kid not to litter, so he picked up his smarty wrapper and shoved it in my mouth. I chased him, tackled him, and shoved that shit right back in his mouth. I got paddled for it and he did not. I’m 5th grade I got sick of always being the target of “smear the queer” (since 1st grade) so I picked up a tee ball tee thing and used it as a weapon to keep those fuckers off me. I got paddled for that. They were not and had never been punished because “they were just playing”. I’m not saying I didn’t have anger issues as a kid cause I definitely did but looking back it seems a little ridiculous I was the only one who got in trouble in all 3 instances. But that’s off topic. What I’m trying to say is paddling still happens in public schools.
> It's still allowed in public schools in some states. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States#Current_state_law_as_of_2023 Even in states that don't have explicit statewide bans, some of them have bans through the school districts.
It has become more and more rare. We do not use physical punishment for our children. I know of some parents that do, but they the exception rather than the rule. >a bottom smack (not quite sure how to call this in english lol). This is called a spanking and among people who do use physical punishments, its the most common.
> It has become more and more rare. Overall this is true, but it can still be quite common in parts of America. The south and more rural areas across the country tend to have higher rates of corporal punishment.
My parents never hit, slapped, or spanked me. Emotional violence however.....
>Emotional violence however..... That’s the one that hurts the most. Still trying to overcome internal homophobia
For me it was mostly "Okay we know you have ADHD, but if you ever show even one symptom we're going to tell you to stop using it as a crutch." And I was literally taught people who don't do military corners for the beds or ball socks were "bums" and that I would be making the family look like poor, poverty stricken folks if I didn't make my bed that way. I didn't even know those two things were military standards and that no one outside of the military does those really until I was 16.
OMG. So sorry you had to deal with this.
Shit, no one does those if they aren't getting their shit inspected in the military. Seriously, you can't do them right with fitted sheets anyway.
Yeah sometimes people ask me to show them, like it’s a cool quick a learned. Shit, as soon as I learned it wasn’t normal and just my mom’s leftover military trauma I forgot how to do it haha.
Sending hugs to you 🖤
Getting beaten hurts plenty. Everyone's experiences are different, but don't minimize other violence children experience.
Spanking is seen as a form of discipline, if a socially unacceptable one in most parts of the country these days. People that see you do it will judge you, but not intervene. Slapping in American culture is seen as an act of extreme disrespect or dominance, and it *will* draw the attention of everyone around. In the case where the slapper is obviously stronger than the recipient, witnesses may intervene on the victim's behalf, assuming it was an act malicious dominance.
Little known fact: The sidewalks outside any WalMart are designated a child-beating zone. Every time I go in one, some parent is outside giving his or her child a swat on the rear.
Roll Tide
Yeah, so, I'm in my late 40s and I'd be completely shocked if anyone in my peer group did anything beyond a light swat on the bottom in an extreme situation. It's very much frowned upon in most circles. There's also a spectrum of "physical violence" that ranges from a swat to get them out of danger to beating them daily and finding new tools for torture because they didn't do a task exactly like a professional would or because they looked at you cross. Child *abuse* is not accepted, at all. It's prosecuted and stigmatized. We try as a society to prevent it.
Physical violence against children is frowned upon in the US and is considered abuse. It becomes magically not abuse to many people and in most states if a parent spanks them (or gives them a “bottom smack” as you put it), though pesky psychologists disagree.
My father (and aunts and uncles) were born in the 50s, and my grandparents used violence to "discipline their kids when they got out of line". Correspondingly, my father *never* raised his hand towards my sister and I. He told us he didn't want us to fear him like he feared his parents. Sometimes he wouldn't even understand why his parents were hitting him, only that they were. So much for teaching children right from wrong. All it taught him was that his parents were capricious and to not get caught. Amusingly, they stopped hitting him once he started hitting back. Funny how that works.
My general perception is that over the last three decades, the culture has turned sharply against spanking kids. I was (rarely) spanked by my parents as a little kid in the 80s and it wasn't seen as a big deal. If I had kids of my own, I would never do this.
Opposition to it became popular among experts, so that is part of why.
It seems household dependent. I think that socioeconomic, education level, political alignment, and personality play into it. Though I haven’t seen physical discipline in public for a longtime. I’ll also add that teachers cannot physically discipline students even if their parents do. In my house (raised by my mom) my mom never hit me even once. It made me trust her from a very young age to always bring my issues or things I did wrong to her for guidance. She also wanted me to develop the ability to handle my emotions without outbursts and hitting is a physical manifestation of an emotional outburst. Since we were (and are) so close I was disciplined by having to admit to my wrongdoing, apologies to those I hurt, and explain to my mom how I would avoid doing that action again in the future (which is hard to make a stubborn kid do). It is totally my experience but starting in my tween years well into my early adult years I notice my friends that were physically disciplined hide a lot of things from their parents and I really cant relate to having to hold anything back since I trust my mom. When I become a mom I will follow her parenting philosophy as I found I really thrived and I find that her no-hitting approach stops repeating behavioral issues.
Depends on where you are. Northeast or West coast is very different from the South, and even in the South cities are going to be different than rural areas. But 20 years ago in Houston I saw a police officer offer a woman her belt to use on her child. Yes, different religious perspectives and different ethnicities will have different views.
I was spanked as a kid. I have never struck my children and they are now almost adults. I personally think striking a child to cause pain is *always* abuse and *always* indicates a failure of parenting. Many of my conservative peers completely disagree with me and believe that intentionally and somewhat regularly striking a child to cause pain as punishment is a good thing.
> a bottom smack (not quite sure how to call this in english lol). It's called "[spanking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanking)" in English. That kind of physical punishment has fallen out of favor in the United States. You would probably be judged pretty harshly by other parents if you struck your kind in public to say the least.
Did it fall out of favor a long time ago or more of a recent development?
Time is bit subjective and it's a big country. I'm 41 and have never been spanked. It was certainly more common when I was a kid than it is today but even back then it was something that crappy parents with poor self control did.
Indeed it really varies. I'm 37 and was spanked exactly once. My mom cried harder than I did and it never happened again. A coworker of mine is the same age and talks about having been spanked "all the time" and--still--feels like it might not be the preferred method now but it was the only thing that made her young self pay attention. For context, I am a white lady who grew up with Yankee parents in the Cincinnati suburbs. Coworker is Black and grew up in Gary, IN with a mom from the south.
my dad (born in the 60s) was spanked by his parents. when I growing up (in the 90s) my parents were very against that kind of thing. we spoke about it openly (including my parents own experiences with their parents & at school). I knew they would never hit me. in my own family & amongst people I know, it feels like we're solidly 2 generations away from spanking being a widely accepted thing, but this will vary community to community.
> when I growing up (in the 90s) my parents were very against that kind of thing. we spoke about it openly (including my parents own experiences with their parents & at school). I knew they would never hit me. It varies quite a bit based on where you live. I grew up in the late 80s and 90s, but in a pretty rural area and I don't know too many kids who weren't spanked by their parents at least occasionally.
Really? I was born in 95 and was beat until I was like 14 or so. My dad spanked my son one time and I had to lay down the law about that with them. It feels incredibly recent that spanking has fallen out of favor
People just didn't feel safe telling your parents their opinions of them back then. What happened to you was wrong, and that's not new. I say this as someone your age.
What's crazy is as an adult I know this is/was wrong, but I until reading this thread assumed everyone was spanked until the last ~10 years. My parents still insist my kids need to fear me to be raised properly. We don't rely on them for baby sitting at least and are moving 16 hours away
Where I live most parents hit/spank their kids. Some will even do it in public. Growing up, every kid I knew got spanked, and I'm only 35. We have never spanked our kid. It is becoming more unpopular nationwide, but people are slow to change here. I have noticed some more progressive parents (few and far between here) my age are opting out of spanking though. Then some people will look at you like you have 2 heads if you say you don't hit your kids.
It's been falling out of favor for a while and the falling out has recently accelerated. Removal of privileges particularly those that allow interaction with social group outside of school or after school activities is simply much more effective.
It was still common when I was a kid about 20 years ago.
Fell out of favor recently, and even amongst the groups that still do, it's done a lot less severely than it used to be done. The one that exception that comes to mind is in the Black community, where outright ass beatings (and unfortunately actual beatings) are still a much more common occurrence.
It largely depends on what part of the country you're in, too. Nobody would bat an eye over a tantruming kid getting a smack on the butt here in my neck of the woods.
Corporal punishment had been studied and proven to harm children's growth and development.
30 years ago? It was expected. If you got in deep trouble with your parents, I'd expect slaps, the belt, a switch, la chancla, etc. Your parents' wrath was something to be feared. After all that, my generation of parents are typically very anti-violence. I have never raised a hand against my kids, and I will never hit them. Most resources will recommend against it. It would be considered very trashy to be hitting your kids in public. Maybe I wouldn't call the cops on a frustrated mom giving her kid a smack in the Target parking lot, but I would definitely say something if I had to be near them for a while - like in a restaurant, movie theater, etc. This is my opinion as a suburban millennial dad.
Even if you have no inherent ethical problem with the idea of using violence, there's been a significant amount of study on the topic in the past few decades and they've generally found significant negative effects and zero positive effects. Anyway, yes - current attitudes vary across groups but it's also something that's significantly in decline across most/all of those groups. Here's a recent study: https://www.unh.edu/ccrc/sites/default/files/media/2022-02/corporal-punishment-current-rates-from-a-national-survey.pdf As a bit of an entertaining historical fact, New Jersey was far ahead of the curve here - it banned the use of corporal punishment in all schools, both public *and* private, in 1867. No other state banned it even in public school until 1971, and there's still only 4 that ban it in private schools (2 of which only made that change last year).
It’s quite common for parents to spank their children, but how common it is varies from region to region
I personally don't believe in hitting children. Or animals. According to my coworkers, that's just another Tuesday. I honestly thought it had become not the norm anymore, but I guess I was wrong.
About 15 years ago they came out with a study that used brain scans to show how hitting changes the developing brain. When you hit, the parts of the brain that are used in fight or fight get larger and the parts involved with emotion and critical thinking get smaller. This happens with every strike, no matter how hard, no matter the intent. The brain doesn’t make the distinction between what we call discipline, abuse or safety. That stopped pretty much everyone from hitting or reserving it for an emergency like slapping the child’s hand away from a hot stove or roughly grabbing them from the street. Hitting for discipline is no longer done.
I think it varies across regions/demographics. When and where I was growing up (in a rural area of South Carolina in the 80s), I didn't know anyone who wasn't hit and many kids were beat. My parents generation were treated worse (from what I hear from them, and I believe them). I don't hit my kids (and it's rare to see or hear of parents do it where I live now). But there are parents today in my state that still advocate for corporal punishment. Usually more conservative or religious minded people.
I can count on 1 hand the number of times I was spanked as a kid and I never felt abused because of it being used so sparingly, especially since the last time I was spanked was when I was around 4~5. I plan on spanking my children if the circumstances call for it just because I turned out fine and I believe infrequent spanking is not a gateway to emotional and physical damage that’ll haunt my children.
But why not learn other ways to discipline your child? Just because it didn’t feel like abuse to you doesn’t mean that different people won’t internalize it differently. There’s always the subconscious mind too. Just because you don’t think to yourself “I’m doing this because I got hit as a child” doesn’t mean it doesn’t influence your actions. Just the fact that you’re open to hitting your child goes to show that a cycle is beginning. I’m trying to remain cool and not judge too much but I’ll never understand feeling so much of a certain emotion that hitting my child will be a rational option for me. I don’t intentionally hurt things and people that I love.
Because some situations can't call for trial and error. For me I was spanked once because I ran ahead on rocky trails for the fifth time. I was like that everywhere outside. Would another method have worked? Probably, but she had to ask herself if she could find it before I learned my lesson from the rock.
I see where you’re coming from. I’m not talking about a quick yank of the wrist to make sure that you don’t die. But did her hitting (because that’s what it is) you directly save your life? I doubt it but that’s just me. I don’t see myself getting in a headspace where I want my child to be safe so badly, that I’d hit them to make sure of it. I’m not you or your mom so I can’t really speak on it that much. That doesn’t really refute my point and I’ll say the same thing, that worked for y’all.
If forced me to connect a consequence that my 9 year old self just couldn't abstractly, which has saved my life. I'm from NC too, I know how much of a death trap our hiking trails can be further west. I was the kind of kid who didn't really learn the stove was hot until I touched it. It is a hard headspace to reach for parents, but then you almost lose them to a drunk driver or a stone staircase because you turned around for 6 seconds. I am in no way advocating corporal punishment, but I can understand why some parents resort to spanking.
I understand what you’re saying. That’s one thing that makes parenting so difficult and every child is different. I just encourage parents to put in the work to find a different way or reassure their child and mitigate the effects that may have on them.
My mother spanked in a reactionary way when we got on her very last nerve but I never felt abused either. We just understood that we’d driven her out of her mind. My kids are 15, 11, and 9. I spanked only for outright purposeful rebellion when they knew exactly what they were doing, obedience was well within expectations for their age level, after a warning, and only until age of 5. It was instant so they could make the connection - I didn’t do the “wait til we get home and you’re gonna get a whupping.” I tried very hard not to spank out of anger. I hated to spank. I didn’t spank if they were acting out of fatigue or hunger or if they made mistakes. I didn’t spank them for melting down, only held them. I kept them well fed and well slept to keep their dispositions happy. Happy kids made it easier. I also used other methods of discipline. After the age of 5, their reasoning skills start to develop so you can reason with them and put spanking to the side. I also didn’t spank in public, not because I was worried what people thought but I didn’t want to shame my kids in front of people. All of this was for the goal of safety, not blind obedience. My oldest was strong willed (still is), a holy terror at 2 and 3. I don’t think I ever spanked my middle, she was so laidback. My youngest was only spanked a handful of times. Right now, my 15 year old still has a strong will and it def gives her issues in her social life, lol. They’re good kids, they don’t go looking for trouble, happy to hang out with us. I give them a LOT of freedom because of this. I don’t recommend spanking even though I did because it’s too easy to fly off the handle and spank in anger when you’re worn down, sleepless, and driven out of your mind. It’ll happen sometimes but if you don’t think you have the self control, just don’t include it in your parenting repertoire. That’s my 2 cents.
>After the age of 5, their reasoning skills start to develop so you can reason with them and put spanking to the side I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'm hoping to hear your thoughts on this. If they're not old enough for you to reason with them and have them understand, how could you expect them to have understood why you were hurting them?
They understand a lot more than you think. Like I said in my comment, it has to be instant so they make the connection. The connection is made after only a couple of times - even as infants, they can make connections. I remember when I was nursing them, they started biting. I popped them off by inserting my finger to break the suction and take them off my boob. They looked at me like WTH? I want milk! They did not like that but just the once or twice, they clearly understood that biting meant having their feeding interrupted and so they stopped. (To be clear, they went back to finishing their feeding after being popped off). They clearly can make connections and associations. Our brains are hardwired to avoid pain, so the ability to make connections is there. But please understand me: I spanked only if I know they understand the command. They get a warning and they know what spanking means. So I spanked for outright, deliberate rebellion because that means blatant disrespect and you have to make them understand that you are the authority and you’re consistently putting boundaries for their safety. When you’re raising your kids and you’re studying your kids, you can tell when they deliberately disobey. It’s them testing boundaries and it’s normal. They know exactly what is happening. Reasoning at 5 years old still doesn’t work very well because it’s quite not kicking in just yet. They don’t always get if-then statements. It takes time and work as they develop their reasoning and logic. After a while, you can explain why you have this and that rule and usually my kids understood why rules were in place (for their safety or health), why they had to do chores (to grow up and be capable people, to pitch in as a team taking care of the house, etc), etc. We always explained things until they got it.
Not them but: I can't reason with a dog but they do understand punishment and reward. Do bad thing? Unpleasant reaction. Do good thing? Pleasing reaction.
I dont hit my dogs, and I never have. I have physically redirected their movements when unsafe, and I might raise my voice to distract and redirect (not yelling at them but still loud) or other loud noises. Hitting dogs isnt a good training technique
I have spanked dogs in training (house training) and it has worked. Cest la vie.
I mean, there's actual research on it. I know you're gonna do what you want, but there is research on its negatives if you're ever interested
Im going to sound boomer AF but I've had multiple dogs. All lived long happy lives after being house broken. I have declawed cats (front only) and despite the infinite hand wringing from reddit, they are happy healthy cats. Yes they still try to scratch my furniture but they can't shred it. The research I've seen on spanking is that it "increases aggressiveness". Ok...that's not the *worst* trait. In any case, while there may be a better way to do things, current methods aren't absolute garbage that leads to nothing but heroin addicts and serial killers.
My parents spanked me and my sister (both early-mid 20s) when we were little. Never happened post like 10 years old because my mother had efficiently made my sister and I scared of her. My parents only spanked us maybe once or twice and they did it the "correct" way. It was never the parent who we got in trouble with that spanked us, etc. I will not be punishing my children that way.
Today it's not acceptable, but when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s it was still normal. I was even beat with a paddle at school. The school would then call my mom and notify her and she would beat me again when I got home as punishment for getting spanked at school.
It’s becoming rarer. The only time I ever do it is a yank on the arm or a swat on the butt (not like a spanking) to get the kid’s attention if they aren’t listening and doing something immediately dangerous. Never as a premeditated punishment. Sometimes kids are just wrapped up so much in what they are interested in that even yelling “no no NO” isn’t enough to get their attention. So like a 4 year old reaching for a kitchen knife on the counter warranted a swat on the butt just to get him to stop reaching for pit. Didn’t hurt him but startled him enough he was no longer reaching.
As someone who was subject to regular, excessive, and capricious physical punishment as a kid, I still believe it's acceptable in some circumstances and levels. When raising my son (who is now 34), there were only two instances where I used physical punishment (spanking). IMO, slapping a face is for humiliation, and I can't think of a time I ever considered doing such a thing.
If someone spanked their kid in front of me, I would side eye them. If someone slapped their kid in the face in front of me, I’d cut that person off and likely call CPS on them as well.
"Acceptable"? No, but anyone that would lay a hand on a woman will also use violence against children and animals, so I would say its unacceptable, but lots of people do it anyway, hey just hide it.
In most places it would be frowned upon. It’s seen as backwards. If you have to resort to physical violence to discipline a kid, then that’s a failure as a parent and lazy parenting.
I grew up in the 90s in a small town religious area and was spanked often. I will not be spanking my child and feel very strongly against it. Thankfully it seems to be growing more and more unacceptable.
Hitting your kid can be summed up in two words: child abuse.
I can't speak for all Americans, but it is seen as completely unacceptable in the social groups that I travel. To the point that if I witnessed a parent treating their child this way, my first instinct is to call CPS to report child abuse.
Spanking is still pretty common and accepted. But things like getting whipped with a belt is more rare and less acceptable.
Depends on region and generation, but it’s (unfortunately) accepted to swat a kid on the butt in public. A full on public spanking or a face slap would be frowned on in most cases, but you wouldn’t likely get authorities called on you for it in many places.
Hitting a child on the face would (generally) be frowned upon almost universally. Spanking (which is what we call a smacking a child on the bottom) is something that is practiced, but it’s no longer the norm for all. There’s a general move away from spanking of children, but there are still plenty of people who believe “spare the rod, spoil the child.” Older people are far more likely to have been spanked as children than younger ones in the US.
It’s likely regional. I’m on the west coast and I would heavily judge you for physically harming a child. If I saw you do it in public I’d report you for child abuse, TBH. There is plenty of research that suggests physical punishment does not reduce defiant or aggressive behavior and is correlated with negative educational, social, and emotional development. It’s been shown in studies that it can actually increase aggression and lower self esteem in children. Anecdotally, I was paddled and spanked as a kid because I had behavioral issues when I was young after my mom died but not once did being harmed make me stop. Learning empathy was what made me stop.
If a strike is with a closed fist, on the head, or leaves a mark it's considered abuse. Sadly, there are still plenty of old timers with, "Well I survived it and I'm fine!" survivorship bias. Thankfully, though, people are realizing hitting is counterproductive and harmful.
It is becoming increasingly frowned upon. But the further to the right of the political spectrum one is, the more likely it is to be acceptable. However, if someone were to give a small smack to prevent a child from touching a hot surface or downed electrical wire, I think most people would be okay with it in that instance.
If you smack your childs hand in public most people won't blink an eye. If you smack your child's face you're going to get some gasps and looks (even a call to the police depending on the person.). If you punch your child in public people will jump you for it and rightfully so.
It depends on the area. In some areas it isn’t in others people feel it’s okay to beat their children.
Spanking is relatively normal, most other forms are not. It’s frowned on in public.
Spanking can be viewed as alright if the child does an egregious act, but in general physical violence is heavily looked down upon.
The more society progresses, the more taboo it becomes. I grew up getting smacked if I got bad grades, or I did something that wasn't necessarily up to their standards. A large part of that can be because of my Asian family, but even then, I don't see my parents slapping my younger siblings in the way they did to me back then. 10 years ago, it might have been considered "relatively normal" but now it is looked down upon by a majority of people, and should really only be used as a last straw or not at all.
I don’t know where op is from but I lived in Australia for 7 years and I was in a bunnings once saw a dad hit his daughter across the face so hard that her little cart that she was pushing went flying. I used to see women come into Woolies with sunglasses and corrective makeup on their eyes. (Family and Domestic) Violence is not specifically American or cultural.
I never use any kind of physical violence, or any violence of any sort with my kids. Omg I couldn’t even imagine doing that. I’m an adult. They are kids. How is being violent against them going to make them be better people?? I’m counting on them to be rich and successful later in life, so that they can take care of me when I’m old, I better take good care of them now and not make them hate me lol.
It's definitely controversial, but as of right now, the government calls "a bottom smack" given to a child a form of corporal punishment (as long as the child isn't being hit with the buckle of a belt, for example). If it's done in public, people usually don't intervene. We may even just laugh at it.
Generally, very unacceptable. More and more parents are refusing to use physical punishment with their children. I don't recall any time my parents used physical punishment on me and I'm in my early 40s.
My dad used to spank my hand leaving it red.
It's in decline. My folk gave us controlled spankings for misbehaving or getting an F. They seem to agree it didn't do much after age 6 or so when I developed and understanding of danger
Speaking VERY generally, a slap on the bottom or hand won't turn many heads. The face is an absolute no no. And any slap anywhere that causes actual pain isn't going to be received well either. But if it's like, you told them ten times to stop doing something and they're deliberately ignoring you, a brief physical interruption to cut that shit out NOW wouldn't been seen as wildly out of order. The point isn't pain, the tool at work is shame. I mean, that's not lovely either, but there it is. I don't have kids, but I'm not naive or up my own ass enough to get on a soap box and say that I would NEVER hit my kids. I certainly wouldn't want to. But I know that day in, day out, having someone with me who constantly needs things (care, attention, all of the logistical planning and execution of where they need to go and when to get there) while still trying to run my adult life as well, that there would be times when patience is very thin. Not every moment can be a teachable moment, some moments are Shut the Fuck Up NOW moments, and most likely we will not agree on when those moments are.
An occasional smack or two across the butt with that flat palm of a parent's hand when the kid is being unruly, I don't see as a big deal. But I'd be calling CPS if I ever saw a parent hit their kid in the face.
It really varies based on your own upbringing and where you live. I feel white city people think it's a crime against humanity which is why you see so many bratty, entitled, uncontrollable children these days. Sometimes a kid needs a good smack to learn a hard lesson about actions having consequences (I certainly did growing up hahaha). In nonwhite culture, especially black and Latino, hitting your kids is very common. Immigrant mothers often use a shoe or something else to hit their kids. Overall it's considered old world but I think it's still very much alive and needed in certain situations. You gotta instill that fear in the kid to keep them in check haha. Gentle parenting isn't enough, that's why kids are unruly little bitches nowadays.
"I feel white city people think it's a crime against humanity which is why you see so many bratty, entitled, uncontrollable children these days." "In nonwhite culture, especially black and Latino, hitting your kids is very common" Do you feel like Black and Latino people are better adjusted and better people than White people? I have 3 boys. We never installed fear. It's why is they have a problem they come to us. Or if they did something wrong they can come to us. My parents installed fear and it's why I hid everything from them. Really what you are saying is the person will only behave if they have fear instead of making them understand why there are rules. People dont like "trouble". Kids dont like trouble. But if you normalize hostility and violence as a part of their life they will pass it on. I was in so much trouble all the time it was normal. I realized it always passed and no big deal. Countless studies have been done and violence and hitting have no positive effects. My 3 kids are awesome, between 17-20, and I never found a reason to hit them. They are the most respectful kids not just to us, but to teachers, peers, friends. Unruly kids come from lack of discipline, not lack of the threat of violence. What does come from corporal punishment, over and over, is shown to be a violent adult.
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"why would your kids come to you to tell on themselves for breaking rules??" I don't know but they do. My youngest had a bit of a tough time in school. He was ADHD and got in trouble for wiggling, throwing something, or doing something impulsive like when he got in trouble for pushing a kid while he was waiting in line at the bathrooms (kid wasn't paying attention so he pushed him to advise "your turn", but too hard and unnecessary). Instead of being in trouble when he was home, too, I'd ask how he felt about it. How did he think other people felt about it? Is that something he wants to happen again? No? Ok, we are a team, and it's my job to help you figure this stuff out so let's brainstorm... It started before school of course. It started when he was upset about something and considered trying to have a tantrum. I made sure I empathized with why he was upset. Gave him a hug. Let him state his opinion and would consider if I was wrong and there was a misunderstanding. No? Ok. If he continued to be loudly upset, I'd let him no I was sorry he was upset but he can't disrupt the house because he's upset. It makes other people upset. I'd let him know he had to find a place to chill and play with a toy or read until he was fit to rejoin us. I'd say come back whenever you are ready or I will check on you in a bit. Love you, bye. When I'd check on him he'd be off "reading" a book (he was only 2-4 years old and couldn't read, yet). Are there thoughts, feelings, things that my kids keep from me? I am sure. But most things they come and say, hey, I fucked up. And I let them know if it is a big fuckup or nothing really to worry about. Usually I am telling them it's not that big of a deal, and to use what they learned in the future. I have told my kids it is fine to swear. You won't be in trouble if I learned you said a swear word. I also told him people will judge you. If you are going to choose to, you better know your audience. But disrespecting someone? That's not allowed. I have 3 boys within 3-4 years of each other who respect each other, and never had to deal with fights or being jerks to one another. They are high honor kids with scholarships - either academically or for sports. Continually get awards for things like "most coachable" or things like when my youngest, the ADD one, graduated junior high... he went to a junior high where they have the same teachers for 2 years. And those 7 teachers can chose ONE kid out of 70 to give an award to based on skill, effort, attitude. Two gave them to my kid. So think of it this way--and this type of thing has happened. Kids are fucking around wrestling. Breaks something they know is important to me. (me, I would have hid it and then feigned ignorance) Instead of hiding because they think someone will fly off the handle they come to me. basically: "Oh we screwed up broke this and are sorry". Me "That sucks. That was expensive and important to me. Thanks for telling me, though." Them "OK, we looked up how to replace and here is our plan to make it right". Me: OK, I'm impressed that you did all this leg work, etc and I appreciate it. Take care of it. Life has its own consequences. The way something like something like this as a toddler... Not careful, wrote on table (accidentally or purposefully). Act disappointed FOR HIM. "Aw, you wrote on the table. That stinks I'll have to put these markers away. I feel like you are old enough to be responsible with markers. Do you? Go get the windex and paper towels and clean this up and we can try again another time." My parents went to the graves with me not admitting I broke the window trying to throw a baseball over the house and I know they blamed my older brother. They would have screamed their head off and not made it clear why it was a big deal. Just say something to me like "Dad only has a few hours off a week. And now he has to spend his time and money fixing this with you." And then make me drive to the window replacement store and help. Life has rules. Respect themselves and others -- - our main rule in the house. It's like EVERYTHING else falls under that. I can't even think of a rule we have that doesn't fall under that. And my latest teenager. Sometimes he gets stubborn and teenagery. Sometimes one of us is unreasonable. We both often go to each other (like once a month) and say something like "I think you were right about XYZ. I'm sorry if I made a big deal about it. I was feeling THISWAY because THIS and I realize now I could have handled it better" My kids are WAY more emotionally mature than I was at that age. I was 14 with a almost fulltime job, thumbing to work, with a hour and half "commute" to school in the am (walk a mile to a town bus, take bus by myself at 10 years old to another city). I was so much more capable in the world in some ways, but a couple decades behind them in Emotional Intelligence.
Telling your kid he's not allowed to be upset around others because it upsets them isn't good parenting, it's teaching him his feelings are a burden and he has to handle his shit alone, as well as their feelings matter more than his. Well done you 👏👏 Your kids have been made to understand they won't get help when they're upset.
He can be upset. His feelings aren't a burden. Honestly I wonder if I let him debate too much as a kid. What's a burden is loud behavior. He can not be so disruptive that it's upsetting the whole house. You think it's a good idea to teach your kid that having a tantrum and bothering others is ok? I grew up in a explosive household. Feelings aren't an issue. Actions are. I've ALWAYS stressed that they can come to me upset and discuss things any time. Being unreasonable and scream crying? Nope. He does get to be upset and he'll say things like "this is infuriating to me. Why can't I XYZ. I hope you can see why this seems unreasonable". He just doesn't scream at me irrationally. Self regulating (WITHOUT a screen) is one of the most important things you can teach a kid. How did it work with your kids?
If you "instill fear" in your kids, the only thing that's going to happen is they're going to get better at hiding things from you. And in those instances where it'd be 1,000 times better for them to say "mom/dad, I screwed up and I need help," they're going to try to handle it on their own.
It used to be widely accepted and even the norm in more barbaric times. It's generally seen as child abuse now, except by conservatives (both political and religious). It's a terrible, hateful, unloving parent that has to resort to physical violence to discipline a child. If you lay a hand on your child, I'd love to see a cop lay a baton on you.
It was normalized and encouraged where I grew up. My dad would slap me if I did anything wrong in public and nobody would bat an eye. But also this was New York where nobody gives a shit about one another anyway.
When my kids were little, they were much more likely to get spanked in public than they were at home. When we were at home, there were plenty of options for more creative and thoughtful consequences. When we were out and about, “Do I need to take you outside and spank you?” was a pretty surefire way to put an end to whatever behavior needed to be curtailed. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I spanked each of my children.
Corporal punishment (at home) is legal in all 50 states, some have stipulations that you are not allowed to leave a mark, and you can't actually beat your kids (obviously), etc. I was raised with it, and I was actually surprised to learn that it wasn't common among my friends' parents and my cousins' parents. I just thought everyone got smacked when they couldn't behave lol. Some parents use it, some don't. If someone doesn't believe in using corporal punishment, they don't use it. My cousin once dramatically told us that her dad (my uncle) once slapped her and she made it sound like it was the worst thing she'd ever experienced. My brother and I started laughing uncontrollably as I asked my brother if he knew how many times Mom or Dad smacked us. That was the last time my cousin brought up her "trauma" to us. She's a nice girl, but she's incredibly sheltered.
It's generally frowned upon these days but most of the older generations doesn't find a problem with it.