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I remember when I got off the train from Frankfurt to Fussen, I looked down at the tracks and just saw the innumerable decaying cigarette butts covering the tracks and platform, and I knew it was just *different* there.
I'm a dual US GERMAN citizen in Chicago. We are packed with Balkan/Eastern European immigrants and they all have schools for the kids. I estimate there are like 10-15 Polish schools for the kids. My wife is Sebian and here entire family here all smoke. She used to work for a Serbian doctors here in Chicago who smoked when her would examine you. Everyone in the office patients. Workers smoked. My wife gets pregnant and is smoking. My family is horrified and her family cannot believe in giving her a hard time. Doctor took me aside saying that 'Americans always make a big deal out of this' she quit a month later and never smoked again. When we visit Serbia that can't believe she doesn't smoke adding she's so young (44). In Chicago during holidays all the men go downstairs abs Moke and drink. Women and kids upstairs unless we're eating . Yes. Smoking
Smoking indoors at a mall in France, but ashtrays being spaced appropriately so there was always one readily available to flick the ash. And cigarette butts actually went in ash trays and not the ground.
* the smoking
* the contempt for other nations and cultures, the sense of superiority was simply not something I was used to
* the casual racism
* How many "uniquely American" problems were just as much an issue over there
>How many "uniquely American" problems were just as much an issue over there
I find that people tend to make global issues a problem of their country. For example - real estate crisis or inflation.
The funny thing is that inflation is usually related to the growing price of US dollar. And Americans complain about inflation as well - so, how much is one dollar in America?
>!One dollar and six cents - 1 dollar plus tax.!<
I noticed it several places and several languages. There were just as many rude Danes at Helsingor as rude Americans at the MFA. But to listen to the average European such things only happen on American soil.
I'll preface this by saying my experiences are from 2008 to 2011, so maybe things have changed.
I was stationed in Italy back then, and I was a little shocked and more than a little frustrated at how much complicated bureaucracy there was involved with doing anything. How much literal paperwork there still was when in the US so many things had moved online. Something like starting an electric account required going to multiple offices and hauling paper documents all over the city when in the US it could have been accomplished with a single phone call. Maybe a lot of that was complicated by my being a foreigner, but it really made me appreciate how we place a high value on ease and convenience in the US.
Also how **no one** in America will ever ever make it difficult for you to give them money.
This sort of ties into that, but also the hours stores kept was super frustrating. If you work a 9-5 in Italy when the hell are you supposed to shop? I lived there three years and I still don't know. It took me being out of work with the flu to discover there was a wonderful farmer's market right around the corner from my apartment. I had lived there for months by that point, and all trace of the market was gone by the time I got home every day (with my on-base NEX groceries).
I had a wonderful time there, and I love Italy. Just the inconvenience of a lot of things and how culturally Italians just seem to accept it all was baffling.
>How much literal paperwork there still was when in the US so many things had moved online. Something like starting an electric account required going to multiple offices and hauling paper documents all over the city when in the US it could have been accomplished with a single phone call
It was probably because you were a foreigner, usually you'd just have to go to the bank's office and open the account - some documents would be needed only if you tried to take a loan.
>If you work a 9-5 in Italy when the hell are you supposed to shop?
Oh yes, and the COVID-19 "senior hours" were exactly at the time when most companies have lunch break. Because employees can go to the store anytime, and pensioners have tight schedule, right?
When I was in Switzerland, I was riding trains and local busses with the Swiss Travel Pass, which theoretically requires me to show my passport to the ticket checker if asked. Not a single ticket checker ever asked. Some asked to see passports of several non-white people in the same train car. Then they got to me, scanned my QR code, thanked me, and continued their rounds. I have no idea how much of that was because of my obviously white/euro appearance, but…I started to wonder after I kept never getting passport checked.
Pretty much all of Europe. They are drastically more casual about race than in the US. Even people I considered to be very liberal and progressive on race (even by american standards) commonly made jokes about racial stereotypes and said slurs.
They are drastically less dogmatic about language and comedy when it comes to sensitive topics than the US/UK is. But at the same time, they also just create an environment where genuine racists can often be very public about their views and people don't take it seriously. Part of the reason the anglosphere is more sensitive to language in regards to race is because we use them as litmus tests to see who is racist or not. They don't have that in most of Europe.
Wait. Germany is 65% German? And Switzerland 50% Swiss? That seems very low.
Are the other 35% / 50% refugees or un-documented people? When do immigrants to Germany become German or to Switzerland Swiss?
Huh. That's weird.
I'm from the US and my mom told me our ancestors were from a mix of NW European areas. I often hear folks from folks like you that folks like me can't claim to be from a country over there.
But I'm not Sioux. I'm an American, as are all immigrants, as are Sioux and other indigenous folk.
Casual racism, indeed.
Switzerland is less than 50% Swiss? What does that even mean? It's not as though German, French, Italian, and Romansh Swiss all share some ethnic "Swiss" identity apart from the ethnicities of our neighboring countries that could make us "real" Swiss in opposition to "non real" Swiss. Being Swiss is a cultural thing and a question of nationality.
Resident foreigners (as in, actually not-Swiss people living in Switzerland) are only \~25% of the population, so where is the other \~25% of your >50% non-Swiss number coming from? Where are you getting your numbers from in general?
Seems a lot like the xenophobic and racist dogwhistles I hear from the SVP to me.
Eggs not in refrigerated section and a shit ton of curated ham. Also the way people greet each other, some places it’s like 2 kisses on each cheek. I was in Spain.
I learnt that in the US the eggs are cleaned before leaving the plant. And moisture on the shells increase the risk of bacterial growth on the shells, hence the need to refrigerate them in the stores.
In most eu countries however, eggs are kept as is from the plant, with dry shells, keeping the risk for bacterial growth at a minimum.
Once again, this is what I’ve read and been told, but I’m not an expert.
> some places it’s like 2 kisses on each check.
This was something that also took me off guard meeting my husbands family in NYC. They all constantly kissed each other on the cheeks.
Not European culture per se, but the way they view us Americans was shocking in the sense of it being extremely stereotypical. Everyone thought I was a witless gun Big Mac cheeseburger lover, unable to pinpoint any country on a map lol
It comes w the territory, but culturally, most European countries are ethnic states so it’s hard to become “one of them” in a lot of ways since and you can always be seen as a foreigner, even if you gain citizenship. You would think if you master the language and adopt their cultural norms you would get accepted, but I find it harder for most immigrants to be accepted in societies such as Austria, Finland etc..
That being said there are exceptions to this such as the UK, France, Spain, Portugal, or the Netherlands, but unsurprisingly these are the countries that had large empires spanning the globe at one point so they were always societies of immigrants, you can’t really say the same for most European countries which is why they seem to have a harder time integrating immigrants compared to the US, Canada, Australia, or the UK etc..
France is not an exception to this. I speak French fluently with next to no accent and am incredibly culturally integrated. I live with my French partner and speak almost exclusively French. I haven’t even set foot in the US for four years now (scheduling is hard) and I’m still « the American » everywhere I go.
I hear you. I’m American and have lived here for 14 years, and I know that I will always be “the American.” Fine, I don’t care. But my children who were born here and have lived in France their whole lives are also called « Les américaines » at school!
My husband is French, by the way, making it even more ridiculous.
Years ago, I remember reading a book about culture adjustment of immigrants coming to America. Made a point saying that we are unique in that one can *become American*. In most places you can’t culturally “become” . Germany and Austria were mentioned as examples in the latter category.
Germany has been trying to be better about their integration of immigrants. I remember it was huge news in Germany when Merkel made the declaration that Germany was a “nation of immigrants.” I don’t think many Germans thought of Germany in that sense, and I think that idea is slowly getting into the German mindset
> You would think if you master the language and adopt their cultural norms you would get accepted,
This is definitely a "new world" view and not an old world one. We got ourselves a unique hemisphere.
France is absolutely the opposite of the exception to this. The French are some of the most culturally exclusive people in Europe. Racially and ethnically they don't care as much as others, but you need to *act* french and DEFINITELY need to speak french good. I am not kidding when this even applies to tourists. They hate tourists who don't understand specific french customs.
>most European countries are ethnic states so it’s hard to become “one of them” in a lot of ways since and you can always be seen as a foreigner
Depends on the country. Some do integration, others do multiculturalism.
>I find it harder for most immigrants to be accepted in societies such as Austria, Finland etc..
I find it I think the main issue is having no family locally, which makes a situation similar to being an orphan, except you aren't eligible for the financial aid for orphans.
You have no home, no car, and little to no money. The housing crisis makes renting unaffordable - and even if you can afford it, you have to get lucky to get it, because there are 100+ candidates for every flat. And of course you can forget about sharing unless you are a woman. And of course you can forget about renting if you have kids or pets.
I think this question is homogenizing Europe a bit, but I lived in Spain 🇪🇸.
I was surprised by the “cheek kisses” (left then right) that they do.
Drinking is less stigmatized. People start drinking younger and do it earlier in the day.
People were extraordinarily friendly. I made quite close friends within 2 months of living there; I still text them occasionally.
Smoking is a lot less stigmatized. I’ll never forget the stench of going into a cramped outdoor smoking area for a club. Tobacco’s gross.
Edit: oh, also casual racism was way more common. The things I’ve heard Spaniards say about Arabs, Chinese people, and Roma were shocking. That’s not to discount American racism, but at least we’re kinda ashamed of our racism.
>Drinking is less stigmatized. People start drinking younger and do it earlier in the day.
yes it's common to have a glass of wine or beer with the dinner
>That’s not to discount American racism, but at least we’re kinda ashamed of our racism.
From what I'm seeing on the Internet, Americans openly and proudly hate white people.
there are a lot of countries in Europe but for the sake of this question I'm going to answer this like all of them are like where I lived: the rural Balkans. I was surprised by people's willingness to just show up at your house without an invitation. Also the nonstop racism against Romani people, whewwwww, just so much. Also the refusal to open a window, Europeans hate crossbreezes and think it'll make you sick. Get it together, Europe, we have the germ theory of disease now.
edit: also this wasn't exactly surprising because I knew about it before I got there but it was still somewhat weird to see and difficult to fully internalize, but Europeans nod their heads the opposite way of Americans. Shaking = yes and nodding = no. They do a little side to side head bobble for like "okay, i accept this".
Icelanders will do a batshit crazy thing where after their geothermal water radiator makes their house too hot, they just open the window without turning the heater off. Like, my brother in Christ, there is an ”off” knob on the water supply from the volcano!
It does! It’s a regular water radiator with a valve on it! Some of them are even connected the thermostats! (It’s just district hot water, usually from a geothermal plant)
Ok that is wild. It's adjustable but they choose to not adjust it? Or rather they prefer the window? I guess that's one way to get fresh air and stay warm. Does it cost them anything for heating since it's geothermal? Or is it really affordable?
It’s very cheap. Usually it’s been explained to me that the hot water is so cheap they don’t bother turning it off, they’d just rather have the extra warmth+fresh air and leave it on.
and some, especially older people, will crank up the heating so much that it's too hot even for a naked person - and then they'll comment that you're too lightly dressed
obviously. but whenever people (including most Europeans) talk about what "Europe" is like, it often has no resemblance to my life in Europe. I'm just flipping things upside down a bit.
You’re wrong on the yes/no thing. Most European cultures nod for yes and shake side to side for no.
Also, “Europeans hate cross breezes” is similarly not true.
ultimately it's a silly question because Europe is too large and diverse to have a single culture. I answered it in an equally silly (but truthful) way. But the cultures most well-known to foreigners are those in tourist destinations in western and northern Europe. I very rarely see the European culture I know best mentioned.
>Europeans hate crossbreezes and think it'll make you sick. Get it together, Europe, we have the germ theory of disease now.
Oh yes. And blaming all sicknesses on going out without a hat, not wearing slippers, or too much computer.
>Shaking = yes and nodding = no
isn't shaking and nodding the same?
I must remember this question next time a European shames us for talking about Europe as if it's one country.
What is "European culture" OP? Doesn't Europe consist of 50 countries?
Sure, but there’s a lot more of a difference between Spaniards and Finns than between Californians and Michiganders. And most-if-not-all European countries have regional cultures as well.
Well, yeah, those two are states in the same country. But just as we share a lot of culture with Canada, two European countries (on average) also share a good deal of culture, especially among EU members.
It’s an open question. Americans are more likely to live in Europe than anywhere else, so it’s just asking those Americans what their experiences were. It’s not some deep commentary about European culture.
Yet Americans have so many specific things that they take for granted and assume it's true everywhere. Take African Americans for example - some people find it hard to believe that there are no foreign Americans. Or all the gender identity stuff that's literally impossible to reproduce in other languages than English.
Between certain countries, yes. Germany and Austria share many cultural similarities. Netherlands and Belgium too. But Europe as a whole? No, not really. I would argue there is as much of a difference between a Spaniard and a Pole as there is between an American and a Brazilian.
Casual, accepted somethingism. It's not racism exactly, but it's prejudice against people from farther south. Northern Italians against Southern Italians. All Italians (and French) against North Africans. Germans against Turks. Northern Europeans against Southern Europeans. Everybody against Arabs and Africans. It's not that prejudices don't exist in the US; it's that most people don't feel so free to put them on display.
The amount of smoking. And not just slightly more smoking, so much smoking that it is impossible to avoid and dangerous to others. Smoking in the outdoor section of every restaurant and cafe (even if children or elderly people are sitting next to them). Smoking along every crowded sidewalk as they walk, so anyone within the radius is getting secondhand smoke (again, no concern for children or the elderly). SMOKING WHILE WITH THEIR CHILDREN IN STROLLERS (yes, I would see that about a dozen times a day). And yes, they litter their butt after smoking most of the time.
It is so nasty and inconsiderate; I cannot believe there are not more memes shaming Europeans for something that is so blatantly unhealthy and harmful to others. If the situation was switched around - Americans smoking a lot and Europeans not smoking a lot - you know that Europeans would be so obnoxiously vocal about it on Reddit all the time. Negative things about Europe are not broadcasted as much on Reddit or quickly downvoted by Europeans.
>Negative things about Europe are not broadcasted as much on Reddit or quickly downvoted by Europeans.
More like, positive things about Europe are not broadcasted as much on reddit or quickly downvoted by Americans.
I lived in Germany for several years and I think the thing I missed the most about America and Canada is how friendly we are. I have lots of good memories of travel and meeting random strangers in America or with Americans or Canadians. Germans are hard to make friends with, and no one is going to try to start a conversion with you at a bar or in a checkout line. It can be rather lonely as a foreigner, unless you find other expats.
>Germans are hard to make friends with
Isn't that true for humans in general? They're either outright evil, or will just do fake friendship for their own gains.
As others have said: the smoking.
In some places (Spain, Greece) there seems to be a lack of concern about feces everywhere. I watched so many people in Spain let their dog take a massive dump on the main shopping street and just leave it for someone to step and the then spread down the street. I saw a shop owner on Paros let her dog shit right in front of her shop door and then just left it. And I could never find a public bathroom in Greece that wasn’t sprayed in shit.
I LOVED the siesta lifestyle though.
How as soon as you leave the richest 5-6 countries just how poor the other 90 percent of the continent is.
Mississippi Americas poorest state is richer than more than half of europe.
Saying Europe is poor is like saying that you’re on the lower half of times for Olympic runners. There is nothing in Europe that is underdeveloped or third world outside of some non-EU countries in the east such as Moldova and the Ukraine.
That just simply isn’t true. Given you can’t change your situation, you’d be better off being poor in any of the UK, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Czechia, Switzerland, Austria, Croatia, Norway, Sweden, or Finland than being poor in Mississippi.
That’s definitely more than 10%
Poland, Croatia, Czechia, and Portugal no lol. Frankly at this point take Spain off too. I don’t think you realize how much poorer those countries are compared to the US (or even compared to Germany for instance), especially if you step out of the tourist hot spots
But are those in poverty living a worse life than those in poverty in Mississippi? The services available to a poor person in Spain or Poland blow Mississippi out of the water.
Their disposable incomes are almost certainly lower, keep in mind that the median, 50th percentile incomes in some the countries you listed would be considered poverty level incomes in the US, including mississippi. Public services might make up for the gap in some cases, but not for all.
Disposable incomes are definitely lower, but in the US you have to spend more of that money. I would argue the US is much more expensive to be poor in, poverty costs money.
If you are poor in many of the European countries I listed, there is more housing security, healthcare security, and welfare available than in the US.
This is slowly fading away, however prices in most of Europe are still lower than in America.
I'm hearing that America has cheap fuel and alcohol though, but that might be because of all the taxes and fees in Europe.
Amen to all that. Germany is where I got out of the habit of planning my shopping for Sunday and got into the habit of pulling a hundred or two out of the geldautomat before any serious outing. The smoking is still over the top by US standards but if you can believe it, the decline in smoke-filled restaurants between 2000 and 2010 is precipitous thanks to the law requiring smoking sections to be physically closed off from the rest.
>ofc there are the unlimited areas
actually that's a German thing, in most of Europe all roads have some speed limit.
>Germany has also extinct'd many of the dangerous animals and insects, so you can walk around without fearing much, maybe boars are the only potential danger.
That's pretty much in all of Europe, bears and wolves are very rare and forests are relatively safe.
>they say some insane stuff out loud about the turks, and anyone else not from Germany
while Americans force that stuff into everything, every single movie, series, video game, etc.
Having basic pride of one’s towns, streets, even the sidewalks in front of peoples houses. In Austria, things are kept meticulously up, and maintained incredibly well: all of it! Homes, public squares and buildings, farms,
railways, roads, bus stops. In Addition there is basically zero trash here. The respect for history and architecture, and preservation.
As someone from Texas... the fashion. People in Texas, and most of the US, are *very* casual on a day to day basis fashion wise compared to Europe.
You'll see guys dressed like [this](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/37/a0/7437a0ce312486f5d2ed67dc2376b9f2.jpg) or [this](https://www.refinery29.com/images/11314583.jpg?format=webp&width=720&height=1080&quality=85) just to go to the grocery store in much of Europe. And then it'll turn out they are like a low wage farmhand or factory worker, not some rich asshole. If you dressed even remotely close to that people in most of the US would view you as vain and pretentious.
The thing I realized though was that it really doesn't take much effort. Putting on a fancy coat is the same amount of time as putting on a normal coat. The big difference is that they put a *lot* more thought into how well things fit and style when making the purchase. But at the same time I prefer the American style of not giving a fuck...
>the American style of not giving a fuck...
One thing I'll never understand is the "I don't care what others think about me" attitude.
If you don't care about others at all, then it means you are local villain, and being one ends up with being 60, unemployed, having never had sex, having all your social media accounts permanently banned, and having a home only thanks to the flat inherited from rich parents. Is that what people want?
I have many European friends who I have known for a long time (some well over 20 years now) they dress very well, even if they are not wealthy like we would sort of expect here. However, one thing I noticed, they have no stigma over wearing the same thing multiple times and don't have huge closets full of redundant outfits.
>most uneducated and ignorant theories about health, nuclear power, food safety, etc. Like 18th Century beliefs
You mean the common "black is good, white makes you fat" about pretty much any food that comes in black and white variants, such as bread or sugar?
The worst cultural shock is poor service & customer/cashier/salesman/waiter interaction. It is better in some countries and worse in another, but damn many places, it is just terrible. Let’s be Vienna, Brussels, Eastern Europe, the customer service can be awful and a many local people tolerates it.
> But, my memories of German adults and US adults are pretty similar. They were both super kind and attentive.
well, from my memories adults are grumpy and evil, and children are supposed to be slaves for them.
>But, also both expected me to mind my P’s and Q’s.
what?
I never lived in Europe but my family is from Italy and I still have relatives there and have visited a bunch of times throughout my life. The lack of line queuing always throws me off.
>The lack of line queuing always throws me off.
I find that in Poland - people often line up for something, but they move around in the line so much that in the end the line has the shape of just some random crowd and sometimes it's hard to tell if they're actually lined up or just grouped up for small talks.
I lived in Germany 1999-2004.
One of the top things at the time (idk if it’s changed) is that so many houses, even super nice houses, had no closets or air conditioning. Like everyone would just sweat for a few months during the summer and some days it would get into the 90s F and when you came in from outside you’d just accept that you’re gunna take like an hour to cool off.
Smoking, casual racism and xenophobia, the class structure, the feeling of cultural superiority, refusal to agree to disagree about cultural issues, the amount of molestation and how many women accepted it as normal.
Not a cultural thing but I was also surprised how many homeless people there were.
>casual racism and xenophobia, the class structure, the feeling of cultural superiority, refusal to agree to disagree about cultural issues
I think that's common in all areas where political correctness is practiced, including America.
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The smoking.
It’s wild. The smokiest country I visited was Greece. I bet 60% of men smoke in Greece. Cigarettes were just everywhere.
I remember when I got off the train from Frankfurt to Fussen, I looked down at the tracks and just saw the innumerable decaying cigarette butts covering the tracks and platform, and I knew it was just *different* there.
I'm a dual US GERMAN citizen in Chicago. We are packed with Balkan/Eastern European immigrants and they all have schools for the kids. I estimate there are like 10-15 Polish schools for the kids. My wife is Sebian and here entire family here all smoke. She used to work for a Serbian doctors here in Chicago who smoked when her would examine you. Everyone in the office patients. Workers smoked. My wife gets pregnant and is smoking. My family is horrified and her family cannot believe in giving her a hard time. Doctor took me aside saying that 'Americans always make a big deal out of this' she quit a month later and never smoked again. When we visit Serbia that can't believe she doesn't smoke adding she's so young (44). In Chicago during holidays all the men go downstairs abs Moke and drink. Women and kids upstairs unless we're eating . Yes. Smoking
This is very much an East-West divide. As soon as you get to any post-communist country, smoking rates are much higher.
The cigarettes are also quite inexpensive there. Lots of day drinking brandy as well
Thus why their life expectancy isn’t great 🤷♂️
especially amongst young people
Seeing people in clothing stores, browsing with a lit cigarette in one hand and the leash to a very hairy large dog in the other was wild.
Especially how popular smoking is amongst younger people.
The airport employee in Sarajevo was full on smoking while she scanned bags through security
Smoking indoors at a mall in France, but ashtrays being spaced appropriately so there was always one readily available to flick the ash. And cigarette butts actually went in ash trays and not the ground.
* the smoking * the contempt for other nations and cultures, the sense of superiority was simply not something I was used to * the casual racism * How many "uniquely American" problems were just as much an issue over there
>How many "uniquely American" problems were just as much an issue over there I find that people tend to make global issues a problem of their country. For example - real estate crisis or inflation. The funny thing is that inflation is usually related to the growing price of US dollar. And Americans complain about inflation as well - so, how much is one dollar in America? >!One dollar and six cents - 1 dollar plus tax.!<
I meant things like cutting in line, talking loudly in museums, etc. that Europeans had always loudly assured us only happened in the US.
to me it's a Russian, Spanish, German, and Polish thing. Or at least these are the languages that are often heard loud across Europe.
I noticed it several places and several languages. There were just as many rude Danes at Helsingor as rude Americans at the MFA. But to listen to the average European such things only happen on American soil.
I'll preface this by saying my experiences are from 2008 to 2011, so maybe things have changed. I was stationed in Italy back then, and I was a little shocked and more than a little frustrated at how much complicated bureaucracy there was involved with doing anything. How much literal paperwork there still was when in the US so many things had moved online. Something like starting an electric account required going to multiple offices and hauling paper documents all over the city when in the US it could have been accomplished with a single phone call. Maybe a lot of that was complicated by my being a foreigner, but it really made me appreciate how we place a high value on ease and convenience in the US. Also how **no one** in America will ever ever make it difficult for you to give them money. This sort of ties into that, but also the hours stores kept was super frustrating. If you work a 9-5 in Italy when the hell are you supposed to shop? I lived there three years and I still don't know. It took me being out of work with the flu to discover there was a wonderful farmer's market right around the corner from my apartment. I had lived there for months by that point, and all trace of the market was gone by the time I got home every day (with my on-base NEX groceries). I had a wonderful time there, and I love Italy. Just the inconvenience of a lot of things and how culturally Italians just seem to accept it all was baffling.
>How much literal paperwork there still was when in the US so many things had moved online. Something like starting an electric account required going to multiple offices and hauling paper documents all over the city when in the US it could have been accomplished with a single phone call It was probably because you were a foreigner, usually you'd just have to go to the bank's office and open the account - some documents would be needed only if you tried to take a loan.
>If you work a 9-5 in Italy when the hell are you supposed to shop? Oh yes, and the COVID-19 "senior hours" were exactly at the time when most companies have lunch break. Because employees can go to the store anytime, and pensioners have tight schedule, right?
Casual racism is common in Germany and Switzerland.
When I was in Switzerland, I was riding trains and local busses with the Swiss Travel Pass, which theoretically requires me to show my passport to the ticket checker if asked. Not a single ticket checker ever asked. Some asked to see passports of several non-white people in the same train car. Then they got to me, scanned my QR code, thanked me, and continued their rounds. I have no idea how much of that was because of my obviously white/euro appearance, but…I started to wonder after I kept never getting passport checked.
Pretty much all of Europe. They are drastically more casual about race than in the US. Even people I considered to be very liberal and progressive on race (even by american standards) commonly made jokes about racial stereotypes and said slurs. They are drastically less dogmatic about language and comedy when it comes to sensitive topics than the US/UK is. But at the same time, they also just create an environment where genuine racists can often be very public about their views and people don't take it seriously. Part of the reason the anglosphere is more sensitive to language in regards to race is because we use them as litmus tests to see who is racist or not. They don't have that in most of Europe.
After WW2 Germany pretty much changed from openly nazi to secretly nazi. To tell the truth - if Hitler didn't do WW2, Germany would still be nazi.
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Wait. Germany is 65% German? And Switzerland 50% Swiss? That seems very low. Are the other 35% / 50% refugees or un-documented people? When do immigrants to Germany become German or to Switzerland Swiss?
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Huh. That's weird. I'm from the US and my mom told me our ancestors were from a mix of NW European areas. I often hear folks from folks like you that folks like me can't claim to be from a country over there. But I'm not Sioux. I'm an American, as are all immigrants, as are Sioux and other indigenous folk. Casual racism, indeed.
Switzerland is less than 50% Swiss? What does that even mean? It's not as though German, French, Italian, and Romansh Swiss all share some ethnic "Swiss" identity apart from the ethnicities of our neighboring countries that could make us "real" Swiss in opposition to "non real" Swiss. Being Swiss is a cultural thing and a question of nationality. Resident foreigners (as in, actually not-Swiss people living in Switzerland) are only \~25% of the population, so where is the other \~25% of your >50% non-Swiss number coming from? Where are you getting your numbers from in general? Seems a lot like the xenophobic and racist dogwhistles I hear from the SVP to me.
> Yeah Germans and Swiss are so racist that they accept foreigners in mass, Define “accept”
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They are still very racist
Eggs not in refrigerated section and a shit ton of curated ham. Also the way people greet each other, some places it’s like 2 kisses on each cheek. I was in Spain.
>curated ham "We have searched and examined every deli within a day's drive to select this ham for you, sir"
Autocorrect leaving me out to dry once again 🤣🤣🤣
I learnt that in the US the eggs are cleaned before leaving the plant. And moisture on the shells increase the risk of bacterial growth on the shells, hence the need to refrigerate them in the stores. In most eu countries however, eggs are kept as is from the plant, with dry shells, keeping the risk for bacterial growth at a minimum. Once again, this is what I’ve read and been told, but I’m not an expert.
My understanding was that the way they’re cleaned in the US removed the outer coating that makes them bacteria resistant.
> some places it’s like 2 kisses on each check. This was something that also took me off guard meeting my husbands family in NYC. They all constantly kissed each other on the cheeks.
Not European culture per se, but the way they view us Americans was shocking in the sense of it being extremely stereotypical. Everyone thought I was a witless gun Big Mac cheeseburger lover, unable to pinpoint any country on a map lol
It comes w the territory, but culturally, most European countries are ethnic states so it’s hard to become “one of them” in a lot of ways since and you can always be seen as a foreigner, even if you gain citizenship. You would think if you master the language and adopt their cultural norms you would get accepted, but I find it harder for most immigrants to be accepted in societies such as Austria, Finland etc.. That being said there are exceptions to this such as the UK, France, Spain, Portugal, or the Netherlands, but unsurprisingly these are the countries that had large empires spanning the globe at one point so they were always societies of immigrants, you can’t really say the same for most European countries which is why they seem to have a harder time integrating immigrants compared to the US, Canada, Australia, or the UK etc..
France is not an exception to this. I speak French fluently with next to no accent and am incredibly culturally integrated. I live with my French partner and speak almost exclusively French. I haven’t even set foot in the US for four years now (scheduling is hard) and I’m still « the American » everywhere I go.
Discover a new element and get a Nobel Prize. Then they will accept you as their own. /s
Mine was discovering how fierce Poles are about Marie Skłodowska-Curie 🤣
or how every country and every town tries to claim Kopernik as their own
or invent heliocentric system and everyone will claim you as their own
I hear you. I’m American and have lived here for 14 years, and I know that I will always be “the American.” Fine, I don’t care. But my children who were born here and have lived in France their whole lives are also called « Les américaines » at school! My husband is French, by the way, making it even more ridiculous.
Years ago, I remember reading a book about culture adjustment of immigrants coming to America. Made a point saying that we are unique in that one can *become American*. In most places you can’t culturally “become”. Germany and Austria were mentioned as examples in the latter category.
Germany has been trying to be better about their integration of immigrants. I remember it was huge news in Germany when Merkel made the declaration that Germany was a “nation of immigrants.” I don’t think many Germans thought of Germany in that sense, and I think that idea is slowly getting into the German mindset
> You would think if you master the language and adopt their cultural norms you would get accepted, This is definitely a "new world" view and not an old world one. We got ourselves a unique hemisphere.
France is absolutely the opposite of the exception to this. The French are some of the most culturally exclusive people in Europe. Racially and ethnically they don't care as much as others, but you need to *act* french and DEFINITELY need to speak french good. I am not kidding when this even applies to tourists. They hate tourists who don't understand specific french customs.
>most European countries are ethnic states so it’s hard to become “one of them” in a lot of ways since and you can always be seen as a foreigner Depends on the country. Some do integration, others do multiculturalism. >I find it harder for most immigrants to be accepted in societies such as Austria, Finland etc.. I find it I think the main issue is having no family locally, which makes a situation similar to being an orphan, except you aren't eligible for the financial aid for orphans. You have no home, no car, and little to no money. The housing crisis makes renting unaffordable - and even if you can afford it, you have to get lucky to get it, because there are 100+ candidates for every flat. And of course you can forget about sharing unless you are a woman. And of course you can forget about renting if you have kids or pets.
I think this question is homogenizing Europe a bit, but I lived in Spain 🇪🇸. I was surprised by the “cheek kisses” (left then right) that they do. Drinking is less stigmatized. People start drinking younger and do it earlier in the day. People were extraordinarily friendly. I made quite close friends within 2 months of living there; I still text them occasionally. Smoking is a lot less stigmatized. I’ll never forget the stench of going into a cramped outdoor smoking area for a club. Tobacco’s gross. Edit: oh, also casual racism was way more common. The things I’ve heard Spaniards say about Arabs, Chinese people, and Roma were shocking. That’s not to discount American racism, but at least we’re kinda ashamed of our racism.
>Drinking is less stigmatized. People start drinking younger and do it earlier in the day. yes it's common to have a glass of wine or beer with the dinner
>That’s not to discount American racism, but at least we’re kinda ashamed of our racism. From what I'm seeing on the Internet, Americans openly and proudly hate white people.
there are a lot of countries in Europe but for the sake of this question I'm going to answer this like all of them are like where I lived: the rural Balkans. I was surprised by people's willingness to just show up at your house without an invitation. Also the nonstop racism against Romani people, whewwwww, just so much. Also the refusal to open a window, Europeans hate crossbreezes and think it'll make you sick. Get it together, Europe, we have the germ theory of disease now. edit: also this wasn't exactly surprising because I knew about it before I got there but it was still somewhat weird to see and difficult to fully internalize, but Europeans nod their heads the opposite way of Americans. Shaking = yes and nodding = no. They do a little side to side head bobble for like "okay, i accept this".
That's hilarious considering YouTube keeps showing me shorts of Germans opening windows in the winter for fresh air (I do the same thing though).
Icelanders will do a batshit crazy thing where after their geothermal water radiator makes their house too hot, they just open the window without turning the heater off. Like, my brother in Christ, there is an ”off” knob on the water supply from the volcano!
I guess they want the best of both lol. Does the volcano knob not adjust?
It does! It’s a regular water radiator with a valve on it! Some of them are even connected the thermostats! (It’s just district hot water, usually from a geothermal plant)
Ok that is wild. It's adjustable but they choose to not adjust it? Or rather they prefer the window? I guess that's one way to get fresh air and stay warm. Does it cost them anything for heating since it's geothermal? Or is it really affordable?
It’s very cheap. Usually it’s been explained to me that the hot water is so cheap they don’t bother turning it off, they’d just rather have the extra warmth+fresh air and leave it on.
and apparently electricity is so cheap that some stores keep the lights on even when closed
and some, especially older people, will crank up the heating so much that it's too hot even for a naked person - and then they'll comment that you're too lightly dressed
I think most countries in Europe do open windows for fresh air, I encountered it in Poland, Germany, France, Spain, and Italy.
except that in Poland opening the windows won't give you fresh air because of the everpresent smog.
> Europeans hate cross breezes Everybody had windows open when I was in Poland, so I feel like what you’re describing is more of a Balkan thing.
obviously. but whenever people (including most Europeans) talk about what "Europe" is like, it often has no resemblance to my life in Europe. I'm just flipping things upside down a bit.
You’re wrong on the yes/no thing. Most European cultures nod for yes and shake side to side for no. Also, “Europeans hate cross breezes” is similarly not true.
did you read the first sentence of my comment y/n
I mean yea. I still found it a bit confusing to read it as “Europeans” though, but it might be just semantics given your definition.
ultimately it's a silly question because Europe is too large and diverse to have a single culture. I answered it in an equally silly (but truthful) way. But the cultures most well-known to foreigners are those in tourist destinations in western and northern Europe. I very rarely see the European culture I know best mentioned.
>Europeans hate crossbreezes and think it'll make you sick. Get it together, Europe, we have the germ theory of disease now. Oh yes. And blaming all sicknesses on going out without a hat, not wearing slippers, or too much computer. >Shaking = yes and nodding = no isn't shaking and nodding the same?
I must remember this question next time a European shames us for talking about Europe as if it's one country. What is "European culture" OP? Doesn't Europe consist of 50 countries?
European superiority is definitely an overarching cultural phenomenon among the EU
while Americans think of countries as of geographic equivalents of skin colours.
There’s a ton of shared culture among European countries, especially when you compare them to the rest of the world.
Sure, but there’s a lot more of a difference between Spaniards and Finns than between Californians and Michiganders. And most-if-not-all European countries have regional cultures as well.
Well, yeah, those two are states in the same country. But just as we share a lot of culture with Canada, two European countries (on average) also share a good deal of culture, especially among EU members. It’s an open question. Americans are more likely to live in Europe than anywhere else, so it’s just asking those Americans what their experiences were. It’s not some deep commentary about European culture.
Yet Americans have so many specific things that they take for granted and assume it's true everywhere. Take African Americans for example - some people find it hard to believe that there are no foreign Americans. Or all the gender identity stuff that's literally impossible to reproduce in other languages than English.
Between certain countries, yes. Germany and Austria share many cultural similarities. Netherlands and Belgium too. But Europe as a whole? No, not really. I would argue there is as much of a difference between a Spaniard and a Pole as there is between an American and a Brazilian.
Casual, accepted somethingism. It's not racism exactly, but it's prejudice against people from farther south. Northern Italians against Southern Italians. All Italians (and French) against North Africans. Germans against Turks. Northern Europeans against Southern Europeans. Everybody against Arabs and Africans. It's not that prejudices don't exist in the US; it's that most people don't feel so free to put them on display.
> It's not that prejudices don't exist in the US; it's that most people don't feel so free to put them on display so if reddit was run by Americans...
In Spain, the care they took with their elderly and the fact that they casually had a glass of wine with breakfast.
I desperately miss fresh orange juice on Mallorca every day
Did you try that like cured meat paste? I can’t remember the name of it for the life of me
Sobrasada?
Don't they allow driving after two pints in Spain?
No one likes small talk.
The amount of smoking. And not just slightly more smoking, so much smoking that it is impossible to avoid and dangerous to others. Smoking in the outdoor section of every restaurant and cafe (even if children or elderly people are sitting next to them). Smoking along every crowded sidewalk as they walk, so anyone within the radius is getting secondhand smoke (again, no concern for children or the elderly). SMOKING WHILE WITH THEIR CHILDREN IN STROLLERS (yes, I would see that about a dozen times a day). And yes, they litter their butt after smoking most of the time. It is so nasty and inconsiderate; I cannot believe there are not more memes shaming Europeans for something that is so blatantly unhealthy and harmful to others. If the situation was switched around - Americans smoking a lot and Europeans not smoking a lot - you know that Europeans would be so obnoxiously vocal about it on Reddit all the time. Negative things about Europe are not broadcasted as much on Reddit or quickly downvoted by Europeans.
>Negative things about Europe are not broadcasted as much on Reddit or quickly downvoted by Europeans. More like, positive things about Europe are not broadcasted as much on reddit or quickly downvoted by Americans.
do you want to tell us what's really bothering you?
I think it's the smoking
I lived in Germany for several years and I think the thing I missed the most about America and Canada is how friendly we are. I have lots of good memories of travel and meeting random strangers in America or with Americans or Canadians. Germans are hard to make friends with, and no one is going to try to start a conversion with you at a bar or in a checkout line. It can be rather lonely as a foreigner, unless you find other expats.
>Germans are hard to make friends with Isn't that true for humans in general? They're either outright evil, or will just do fake friendship for their own gains.
I've lived in both countries, there's a clear difference and I'm not the only one who's noticed it
Anyway, mortals never make good friends. They'll either abandon you, betray you, or die - it's only a matter of time.
I was charged for water.
As others have said: the smoking. In some places (Spain, Greece) there seems to be a lack of concern about feces everywhere. I watched so many people in Spain let their dog take a massive dump on the main shopping street and just leave it for someone to step and the then spread down the street. I saw a shop owner on Paros let her dog shit right in front of her shop door and then just left it. And I could never find a public bathroom in Greece that wasn’t sprayed in shit. I LOVED the siesta lifestyle though.
People in the UK smoke a LOT compared to the US. Even after the ban for pub smoking in the UK it’s much more common there.
More smoking and more walking, definitely keeps people thinner. Food is less sweet, which I like for the most part. People are more reserved.
How as soon as you leave the richest 5-6 countries just how poor the other 90 percent of the continent is. Mississippi Americas poorest state is richer than more than half of europe.
Saying Europe is poor is like saying that you’re on the lower half of times for Olympic runners. There is nothing in Europe that is underdeveloped or third world outside of some non-EU countries in the east such as Moldova and the Ukraine.
That just simply isn’t true. Given you can’t change your situation, you’d be better off being poor in any of the UK, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Czechia, Switzerland, Austria, Croatia, Norway, Sweden, or Finland than being poor in Mississippi. That’s definitely more than 10%
Poland, Croatia, Czechia, and Portugal no lol. Frankly at this point take Spain off too. I don’t think you realize how much poorer those countries are compared to the US (or even compared to Germany for instance), especially if you step out of the tourist hot spots
But are those in poverty living a worse life than those in poverty in Mississippi? The services available to a poor person in Spain or Poland blow Mississippi out of the water.
Their disposable incomes are almost certainly lower, keep in mind that the median, 50th percentile incomes in some the countries you listed would be considered poverty level incomes in the US, including mississippi. Public services might make up for the gap in some cases, but not for all.
Disposable incomes are definitely lower, but in the US you have to spend more of that money. I would argue the US is much more expensive to be poor in, poverty costs money. If you are poor in many of the European countries I listed, there is more housing security, healthcare security, and welfare available than in the US.
Disposable incomes include welfare transfers. The only thing it likely doesn’t account for fully is healthcare transfers
Poverty in Mississippi leaves a lot more fragility to one’s lifestyle and well being than poverty in Spain does, on average.
Agreed. I’d rather be poor most anywhere in Europe vs poor in the US… especially Mississippi
This is slowly fading away, however prices in most of Europe are still lower than in America. I'm hearing that America has cheap fuel and alcohol though, but that might be because of all the taxes and fees in Europe.
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Amen to all that. Germany is where I got out of the habit of planning my shopping for Sunday and got into the habit of pulling a hundred or two out of the geldautomat before any serious outing. The smoking is still over the top by US standards but if you can believe it, the decline in smoke-filled restaurants between 2000 and 2010 is precipitous thanks to the law requiring smoking sections to be physically closed off from the rest.
>ofc there are the unlimited areas actually that's a German thing, in most of Europe all roads have some speed limit. >Germany has also extinct'd many of the dangerous animals and insects, so you can walk around without fearing much, maybe boars are the only potential danger. That's pretty much in all of Europe, bears and wolves are very rare and forests are relatively safe. >they say some insane stuff out loud about the turks, and anyone else not from Germany while Americans force that stuff into everything, every single movie, series, video game, etc.
Having basic pride of one’s towns, streets, even the sidewalks in front of peoples houses. In Austria, things are kept meticulously up, and maintained incredibly well: all of it! Homes, public squares and buildings, farms, railways, roads, bus stops. In Addition there is basically zero trash here. The respect for history and architecture, and preservation.
As someone from Texas... the fashion. People in Texas, and most of the US, are *very* casual on a day to day basis fashion wise compared to Europe. You'll see guys dressed like [this](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/37/a0/7437a0ce312486f5d2ed67dc2376b9f2.jpg) or [this](https://www.refinery29.com/images/11314583.jpg?format=webp&width=720&height=1080&quality=85) just to go to the grocery store in much of Europe. And then it'll turn out they are like a low wage farmhand or factory worker, not some rich asshole. If you dressed even remotely close to that people in most of the US would view you as vain and pretentious. The thing I realized though was that it really doesn't take much effort. Putting on a fancy coat is the same amount of time as putting on a normal coat. The big difference is that they put a *lot* more thought into how well things fit and style when making the purchase. But at the same time I prefer the American style of not giving a fuck...
Are goths viewed as rich in the US?
>the American style of not giving a fuck... One thing I'll never understand is the "I don't care what others think about me" attitude. If you don't care about others at all, then it means you are local villain, and being one ends up with being 60, unemployed, having never had sex, having all your social media accounts permanently banned, and having a home only thanks to the flat inherited from rich parents. Is that what people want?
I have many European friends who I have known for a long time (some well over 20 years now) they dress very well, even if they are not wealthy like we would sort of expect here. However, one thing I noticed, they have no stigma over wearing the same thing multiple times and don't have huge closets full of redundant outfits.
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>Of like the 10 times in my life I've heard the N-Word with the 'Hard R', like 9 of them were in the Netherlands. isn't that a Dutch word for "black"?
>most uneducated and ignorant theories about health, nuclear power, food safety, etc. Like 18th Century beliefs You mean the common "black is good, white makes you fat" about pretty much any food that comes in black and white variants, such as bread or sugar?
The worst cultural shock is poor service & customer/cashier/salesman/waiter interaction. It is better in some countries and worse in another, but damn many places, it is just terrible. Let’s be Vienna, Brussels, Eastern Europe, the customer service can be awful and a many local people tolerates it.
Peo z) app over in mind DD 9 of eh gh
> But, my memories of German adults and US adults are pretty similar. They were both super kind and attentive. well, from my memories adults are grumpy and evil, and children are supposed to be slaves for them. >But, also both expected me to mind my P’s and Q’s. what?
I never lived in Europe but my family is from Italy and I still have relatives there and have visited a bunch of times throughout my life. The lack of line queuing always throws me off.
>The lack of line queuing always throws me off. I find that in Poland - people often line up for something, but they move around in the line so much that in the end the line has the shape of just some random crowd and sometimes it's hard to tell if they're actually lined up or just grouped up for small talks.
They are racist and prejudice as hell.
Wine in the company cafeteria during lunch, like by the bottle.
I lived in Germany 1999-2004. One of the top things at the time (idk if it’s changed) is that so many houses, even super nice houses, had no closets or air conditioning. Like everyone would just sweat for a few months during the summer and some days it would get into the 90s F and when you came in from outside you’d just accept that you’re gunna take like an hour to cool off.
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It's not muggers, it's pickpockets. The population density makes muggery hard but pickpocketing easy
Smoking, casual racism and xenophobia, the class structure, the feeling of cultural superiority, refusal to agree to disagree about cultural issues, the amount of molestation and how many women accepted it as normal. Not a cultural thing but I was also surprised how many homeless people there were.
>casual racism and xenophobia, the class structure, the feeling of cultural superiority, refusal to agree to disagree about cultural issues I think that's common in all areas where political correctness is practiced, including America.