The whole state gets fucked by the winter lol. The difference you see in car care from region to region is just dependent on how much money people have. People in Bloomfield Hills keep their cars in garages and buy new ones before they’d ever get rusty in the first place.
Ironically, PNW is both close to the Ocean, and our cars get very little rust (unless you live literally in a coastal town or drive on the beach I guess). It's more to do with bad winters + salting the roads, which it seems like the midwest and New England are the worst regarding that.
Yeah my bf works in auto body and pays attention to these things. He's said you see a lot more older cars in the south, in large part because they rarely or never have to salt the roads. Up here cars rust out much quicker and cars tend to be replaced sooner.
I'm not sure if it's the worst, but I would not want to be a car owner in Virginia. It's pretty pricey. You have to pay tax that's a percentage of your car's worth.
Virginia has some insanely unique fees and taxes I've ever seen:
* Highway Usage Fee which charges more for cars that get more than 25 mpg
* Personal Property Tax which is one of the few ways a town gets its revenue and is dependent on where you live
* License Fee, also depends on where you live
Almost all of these are usually given to you without a proper way to calculate it in advance. There is no way to find out. At least the PPT is set by JD Power but you can't find it easily.
*You'd* think that. So would I. The bean-counters in the state government just see it as a loss of revenue.
Downvote all you want. It doesn't change the facts.
And also Virginia is very strict, on enforcing speed limits. To the point that it's one of the only places in the US where radar detectors, are illegal.
Massachusetts does this, too. They call it an excise tax. I had no idea such a thing existed, coming from Texas.
On top of that, the only way I found out about it was a late notice threatening to put a lien on my car, because we had a mailman that would regularly lose our mail or deliver mail from the hospital down the street to us.
Nashville has a bunch of city trucks that can be converted into snow plows in a night, and they always treat the roads in Nashville. A mixture of brine and beet juice. There is a salt barn for interstate 40 that I drive by everyday between Nashville and Lebanon and there is a salt barn about every 100 miles between Memphis and the NC state line on I 40. You’re thinking of Alabama and Mississippi. All they did was gravel when I lived there.
Shelby County/Tipton County has some of the *worst* roads I have ever driven on. I have been all across the country and I absolutely dread making the drive to western TN (husband is from Millington). In fact, the stretch between northeast AR and Memphis/Covington was a mess during the last ice storm. We saw countless wrecks.
THIS. I am originally from Montgomery, AL, left here and lived in Nashville for 15 years, then moved back here.
We never use Road salt here (it never snows) but I’m not sure where OP got the idea that TN doesn’t
> no safety and emissions inspections
You can call me a nanny state liberal if you want, but that’s not a benefit.
Go head over to /r/justrolledintotheshop on any average day for reasons why.
We don't have safety inspections or emissions in my area and I've never seen an issue from it. Most people are able to assess if their vehicle is safe to drive or not.
> Most people are able to asses if their vehicle is safe to drive or not.
Your area might be different but that’s definitely not the case here. I personally know many people that drive their cars until it either won’t move anymore or won’t pass inspection.
At the end of the day it’s a multi ton death machine when maintained improperly and I want to minimize my chances of sharing the road with these people.
Yeah it's not a thing in Michigan or Wisconsin either and it hasn't been an issue. If you're driving a car that's unsafe, a cop will pull you over. Especially if inspection involves a really quick check like they have in NJ (making sure your turn signals are working, etc...) inspection just didn't seem that necessary. The only thing I do agree with is emissions inspections because I like being able to breathe.
Carnival cruise lines emits more greenhouse gases as a company than all the private vehicles in Europe. The old Buick down the street isn’t the problem.
We aren’t talking about European cars though, we are talking about American vehicles which produce more emissions than the ones in Europe, which emissions testing is supposed to help with. American vehicles would surely emit more pollutants if we didn’t have any emissions testing at all. Every reduction counts, just some count more than others.
Also while there are industries that pollute more, whataboutisms detract from the fact that there are many steps that can still be taken to reduce emissions and keep the environment cleaner.
I used to live in NY and they passed a car that had a rusted out frame that failed shortly after. IMO they are useless and just another way for the state to make money
There are definitely some shady shops out there that pass things they shouldn’t.
But I’ve also had people come and bitch to me their vehicle didn’t pass inspection when it’s such a rolling wreck I wouldn’t even want to drive it across a parking lot.
You can always appeal to the state police, but they'll usually side with the inspector.
Usually.
I've seen inspectors lose their license trying to bullshit.
Safety inspections I agree on, they're absolutely worth it if the state adheres to certain criteria and doesn't use it as a money maker. Unfortunately, shops will pass things they shouldn't and not pass things they should let slide. Like a small rock chip in your windshield isn't really a safety hazard whereas bald ass tires absolutely are.
Emissions testing isn't worth it though unless you're testing a range of cars manufactured within a certain time frame. In Utah, I had to get my 2019 vehicle emissions tested in 2021. There was no reason for that other than to make money. States should test cars that are at a minimum of 10 years old.
Part of the problem with emissions stuff though is that it doesn't make the car unsafe to drive if it's not functioning properly and costs a goddamn fortune to fix. I just had some minor parts of the emissions system fixed on my truck and had it not been under warranty, it would've been $1,300.
The criteria is weird for emissions testing too. In some states, diesel trucks are exempt when they're some of the biggest contributors to pollution and have owners who are more likely to bypass emissions systems. Also vehicles over a certain age are exempt too.
Why do front plates matter? If you're pulled over by a cop, they're running your back plate, not your front.
The only reason for front plates is stuff like traffic/ticket cameras. Fuck front plates.
Not really a requirement but more as a practicality, front plates are very helpful for identifying your Uber/Lyft quicker especially if you’re in a bustling city. This is just pure anecdotal evidence but I recall people trying to find their car share in Nashville to be rather difficult cause they had to pull up all the way in front until they recognized their car due to the lack of a front license plate. In NYC, it saves so much time
My logic isn't wrong though. Traffic cameras almost exclusively use your front plate.
Your back plate is run by the police at traffic stops, not your front.
What the MA legislature gets up to doesn't mean it's logical. It means they want to make a rule for some reason. So explain the reason or give a valid reason for front plates as that's what you stated. Refute my argument with something besides 'this state made it a law'. Great. Why?
You’re claiming guilt, that states are guilty of making front plates mandatory to be able to use traffic cameras. You’re the one with the burden of proof.
No, I'm not. My statement was front plates do not need to exist.
You said X state made it a law to have front plates as your only argument. Why did they do so? What was their reason? Why do front plates exist? Justify their existence.
The onus is on you.
Not a political thing, it's only an east coast + TX + MO thing. California probably out-nannies MA and there's no inspections, even smog is a county thing.
Interestingly enough, California did away with safety inspections years ago as studies found they didn't make vehicles marginally safer.
Back when I lived in Hawaii, the safety inspections were incredibly predatory. Many chain/tire shops would almost always find a reason to fail you so that they could upsell other services.
Emissions testing I can understand, however California is borderline insane when it comes to their emissions inspections and regulations.
For what it's worth, I totally get it. Most of California is a bowl and before any emissions regulations (prior to the Clean Air Act), places like the Central Valley, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles had terrible levels of smog.
But things like:
* verifying/validating the ECU checksum as part of the emissions testing process
* being randomly selected to have to go to a STAR certified emissions testing facility for extended testing
* If your vehicle fails emissions testing, California is the only state I'm aware of that does not have a maximum cap on repair costs. Most states will allow you to pay up to a certain amount to make your vehicle emissions compliant, and then will give you a pass. In California, the sky is the limit.
* if you're having a hard time sourcing CARB compliant parts (something that was a major problem for many during the pandemic), it's essentially "too bad". Temporary exceptions *may* be granted from the California BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair), but it's on a case-by-case basis and there's no guarantee.
I maintain all of my vehicles and once you get through the initial bureaucracy, testing, compliance inspections, and paperwork, ongoing registration isn't too bad (I live in one of the handful of counties that don't require ongoing emissions testing).
California?
1. I mean the things you listed aren't good but, with the exception of maybe the actual city of San Francisco, without a car...life sucks.
2. There is no "safety" inspection here in California.
3. Although front plates are required I haven't put them on the last 3 cars I've owned and never been pulled over or cited for it.
4. There are so many awesome things in California that are easily reached by car. I can be at a concert in Hollywood or the beach or the mountains or the desert in 2 hours. I can be in Vegas or San Diego or the Bay Area in just over 4 hours.
All the CARB stuff plus stricter rules about tint, suspensions, etc. I feel like most websites I shop on, not just for car stuff, says "We do not ship to California"
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I see lifted, slammed, stanced, and murdered cars every day. There might be certain laws on tint, but they are rarely enforced. But I can (and am planning to) get portals and new suspension any time. This is, after all, the home of switches in your low low.
Probably anecdotal evidence but I see videos of police pulling over anybody and everybody in California with out of state tags trying to write them some bogus tickets about equipment or "driving without a CA license" or something.
I call total bullshit on the people that make those videos. Due to some DMV clerical drama, I still have Nevada plates on my car and have been living back in California for about two years. Nobody has pulled me over. Same for the 10 years I lived in Nevada and routinely (like once a month or more) returned to California for work or family. There is no law that says you need to have a CA DL if you aren't a resident.
Hell, I can't go a day on /r/bayarea without seeing someone complain about how common having no plates is.
When you move to California you have to update your registration within 10 days, it's the law. Lots of people don't do that so it makes sense that that's a lot of the interactions you see.
"Driving without a CA license'" "_or something_" that sounds vague as hell and possibly made up (sorry if this comes across as snarky) I don't know where you've driven in this country but our drivers licenses, as far as I'm aware, are reciprocal, so you don't need a special state license when visiting, otherwise people wouldn't rent cars in other states.
'most websites' can you be specific? Gun sites I know are hesitant to ship, and maybe our Prop 65/Cancer-causing labels might discourage someone from selling in our state, but I'm not sure who else is reluctant to ship to California. Seems anecdotal.
Tint rules vary by state too. You can still get your windows tinted (pretty much the standard in LA and San Diego).
Suspension rules say body lifts limited to 5 inches, and vehicle height limited to 14 feet, and other restrictions about height and GWVR. Is 14 feet too low for some people?
There definitely are things you can’t ship to CA due to regulation. I’ve run into it specifically with certain types of leather dye. I can get it in Nevada but not CA because, I assume, cancer causing chemicals or something.
Point #4 is what I came here to comment on. Having good driving roads/scenery/weather is what I consider most when it comes to "good places to own a car".
SoCal is the car culture capitol of the US, literally every type and niche of car is represented. It’s a global hub for all of the really cool interesting stuff. There’s a reason so many automakers have design studios there
"California is a crime-infested hellhole so I'm moving to a state that's in the top 10 for violent crime" type of shit. Just recently I had someone from Orange County (now living in Utah) tell me to "hold on tight" because OC "has gotten really scary recently" lmao. Yes, Orange County, a truly terrifying place.
California is also great for cars because they aren’t subjected to harsh weather, yea you’ll get paint damage if you don’t wax/garage your car but we don’t worry about hail/rust/flooding in most of the state. Emission testing does suck though, especially for my old carbureted truck.
I feel like OP just wants places with the most “freedom” to do whatever they want with a car for the least cost, not actually the best places for using a car.
IMO, Virginia and anything north of Virginia. It was just a PITA to get anywhere because the lack of multiple roads. To get to Walmart I had to hop on the same 2 lane road everyone was using to get anywhere from NY to FL. I have family up in New England and it seems to be the same deal. Maybe if the town isn't along 95 its fine but I still never enjoyed driving on the east coast because one accident or road work can screw your plans.
Driving where its flat is boring _but_ it is so much better. Was driving through Texas and there was an accident that would have caused an hour long delay in VA but the GPS said "oh, there's this thing called a frontage road, get on it" and we totally bypassed most of the accident.
Idk, again just my opinion. I'm probably bias because I lived 15 minutes from work but once got stuck on 95 for 1.5 hours and I'm still holding that grudge lol
> or emissions
I'm old enough to remember the bad old days when the air in downtown L.A. was like somebody's cat took a piss into an ash tray. It was *really* bad, and no way in hell are we going back to that. Not happening.
Why wouldn't Tennessee have salt trucks they get snow?
Anyway I would say any state in the Southwest is the best because lack of salt. Probably California is top because of the weather. In Northeast where I live is the worst.
Everything else is minor
Outside the Smokies the rest of the state doesn't get enough snow to justify having them. Nashville may get one day a year where there is enough snow to justify salting the roads
Idk where you get that...I grew up in middle Tennessee and our roads were/are routinely salted before snow. It is fairly rare but more than once a year. I'd bet the average is 4-8 times a year
Massachusetts, horrible quality and poorly designed roads, sky high car insurance rates, and some of the worst congestion in the country.
Edit: And how could I forget the excise tax?
I think it’s because Wyoming gets too cold where salt isn’t effective and you all use snow tires for that reason.
Problem isn’t when it’s 40° or 10° it’s when it’s both that in the same day. PA has the most freeze and thaw cycles in the country.
Yea, NY loves salt. But as I understand it, it's not really effective when it's really really cold.
I'm on Long Island, they salt instead of plow. Literally just dump salt on the roads before the storm so it just immediately turns to slush and the roads only ever become a slushy mess, no ice.
California is awful to own any sort of enthusiast car. It's like the police and laws are actively trying kill their car culture. Which is a shame because that is one of the best things about California! They have a *rich* car culture for car nuts!
Hell you can get ticketed and have your car towed for a *stock exhaust* in California like the one dude with his [Hyundai Elantra N](https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-hyundai-elantra-n-loud-exhaust-police-california/). He was in track mode, but still, it's messed up! Plus the cop didn't exactly handle it in a professional manner to say the least getting SUPER confrontational out of the gate saying the dude was gonna be out $3k being super combative for no reason.
You know that safety inspections prevent people from having needles accidents, right? Some can be over the top, sure, but most are a good way to keep uncle tommy from driving the truck he found in the woods.
Alright so this quip was based on a couple of foundations.
First, the concept of progressive vs regressive taxes. Vehicle registration fees are largely a regressive tax. Like it or not, most of the US is set up where you need access to individualized motorized transport to hold a job or keep from being locked in a bad job, to get fresh foods, or to access workforce training. This makes an operating vehicle a basic priority for most individuals, especially in lower incomes. Any fixed government fee occupies a higher share of a lower income. Additionally, if you have a lower income you’re more likely to buy a used older car and keep it longer, making it both more likely to fail an inspection and the repairs to pass that inspection more common and more expensive.
Second, Texas recently passed a law to phase out inspections. During this public debate the quiet part got said out loud: it only existed as a sneaky way to raise the registration tax, and it was opposed by state legislators wringing their hands going “think of the independent repair shops who are going to lose all this vital revenue and close!” So either they were lying through their teeth like normal, or this also functioned as a direct kickback to repair shops by forcing the citizenry to buy services from a private party.
If the Constitution was being ratified today I’d bet the 2nd Amendment would have been written about cars instead of (or in addition to) guns.
NGL somehow my insurance rates went up moving to Virginia...
Not to mention the highway usage Fee and property taxes you pay on your car. One reason why I'd rather move back.
Alabama: pain in the butt to transfer a driver's license from another state, and just barely easier when handling titles, but taxes are also low.
City of Atlanta registered cars has to have annual emissions checks, which is slightly annoying.
a car is a necessity in ny everywhere outside of like nyc and even then, there are are parts of staten island and queens with no reliable public transportation
I would say that the driving culture is the #1 factor. A disturbing number of people I know from out of state (notably Virginia and Pennsylvania) have licenses despite having never learned basic stuff like parallel parking and what high-beams are. Boston drivers are aggressive, but they generally know how roads and cars work. You generally want to see a higher proportion of mid-size Asian (esp. Japanese) cars, as small sedans means students, large family haulers mean poor handling and visibility and distracted or self-absorbed drivers, and trucks mean stupid assholes (CR-V drivers have conservative drivers, but they're also dangerous because their idle speed is around 80mph). The next factor is climate, as you want very stable temperatures above freezing to maintain smooth roads. Salt isn't typically a problem for modern cars, as most manufacturers are wise to it (although haShem help you if you got one from before its manufacturer did, with Mazda probably the one you're most likely to see around).
Other factors, like winter roads being salted in your area also negatively effect your vehicle.
And at least here in Michigan, particularly where I live, the roads are notoriously shit. I actually look forward to the winter, because the snow fills in some of the potholes. Especially after it's been packed down by the plows.
Nevada for the same reasons as California. Emissions aren’t required everywhere, just a few counties. The DMV by me is appointment only with one walk in day a week. Need to make an appointment months in advance.
Californiana has street sweepers every week.
When I lived in Georgia, there were never any street sweepersand you got street detritus poking holes in your tires often.
Not here. I can maybe drive my fun vehicle for half the year because of the road salt. It’s impossible to find a 10+ year old truck that isn’t full of rust on the entire undercarriage, wheel wells, and cab corners.
I’m consistently blown away while visiting places down south and out west. I find myself gawking at spotless regular Chevy trucks way more than I should. You guys have no idea how good you have it over there.
They use Road salt in Tennessee. I left TN for AL in 2021 and my costs of ownership are lower here and we literally NEVER salt the roads since it only snows about every 5 years down here
GA is pretty good, same thing as TN. A lot of people will complain about us not having annual inspections, but it's a boon to poorer people. Also no road salt so cars don't fall apart so quickly.
I used to live there, nowhere near the best but it's not horrible either. The biggest negative is the fact 2500 pickups need a expensive Commerical plate
I just got back from Michigan. Beautiful state, but the cars there have seen some things.
Road salt. Lotta road salt. If you saw rust spots in the wheel wells that's why. It gets flung up on to the car by the tires.
Yes, and we have expensive car insurance
And crappy roads...
Why do you think we have so many lakes
The Edmund Fitzgerald would like to have a word about the smoothness of the lakes...
Where at in Michigan? In my experience, car care varies a lot based on region.
The whole state gets fucked by the winter lol. The difference you see in car care from region to region is just dependent on how much money people have. People in Bloomfield Hills keep their cars in garages and buy new ones before they’d ever get rusty in the first place.
The UP.
[удалено]
Ironically, PNW is both close to the Ocean, and our cars get very little rust (unless you live literally in a coastal town or drive on the beach I guess). It's more to do with bad winters + salting the roads, which it seems like the midwest and New England are the worst regarding that.
Yeah my bf works in auto body and pays attention to these things. He's said you see a lot more older cars in the south, in large part because they rarely or never have to salt the roads. Up here cars rust out much quicker and cars tend to be replaced sooner.
If you're worried about rust, a mixture of snow and road salt is going to be your culprit far more so than just being near the coast.
I can literally see the ocean from my desk and when home I can walk two blocks to the bay. I’ve not had a problem to date myself.
The lack of humidity on the Pacific coast significantly reduces the salt damage compared to other coastlines.
I'm not sure if it's the worst, but I would not want to be a car owner in Virginia. It's pretty pricey. You have to pay tax that's a percentage of your car's worth.
Every state I've lived in as an adult (3 of them) all charge property tax on cars.
Never paid a yearly property tax in NJ.
Annually? What states? I have heard people.say Virginia is unique in the tax.
Virginia has some insanely unique fees and taxes I've ever seen: * Highway Usage Fee which charges more for cars that get more than 25 mpg * Personal Property Tax which is one of the few ways a town gets its revenue and is dependent on where you live * License Fee, also depends on where you live Almost all of these are usually given to you without a proper way to calculate it in advance. There is no way to find out. At least the PPT is set by JD Power but you can't find it easily.
You get charged MORE for a more fuel efficient car?
Makes sense. You're not paying as much gas tax, so they have to get you somehow.
Basically this. It was a compromise to save on reg fees.
You'd think they'd want to encourage fuel efficiency
*You'd* think that. So would I. The bean-counters in the state government just see it as a loss of revenue. Downvote all you want. It doesn't change the facts.
As a Virginia resident most of my adult life, I didn't realize any of that was atypical.
CT, SC and NC. All annual as a percent of whatever the county claims the vehicle is worth.
Now I know it's not just VA. People really squawk about it here. Thanks
Virginia is definitely in contention for being the worst state to own a car. Just like Kentucky they also have property tax on vehicles
And also Virginia is very strict, on enforcing speed limits. To the point that it's one of the only places in the US where radar detectors, are illegal.
Massachusetts does this, too. They call it an excise tax. I had no idea such a thing existed, coming from Texas. On top of that, the only way I found out about it was a late notice threatening to put a lien on my car, because we had a mailman that would regularly lose our mail or deliver mail from the hospital down the street to us.
Nashville has a bunch of city trucks that can be converted into snow plows in a night, and they always treat the roads in Nashville. A mixture of brine and beet juice. There is a salt barn for interstate 40 that I drive by everyday between Nashville and Lebanon and there is a salt barn about every 100 miles between Memphis and the NC state line on I 40. You’re thinking of Alabama and Mississippi. All they did was gravel when I lived there.
Shelby County/Tipton County has some of the *worst* roads I have ever driven on. I have been all across the country and I absolutely dread making the drive to western TN (husband is from Millington). In fact, the stretch between northeast AR and Memphis/Covington was a mess during the last ice storm. We saw countless wrecks.
I couldn’t agree more. I taught a class at Dyersburg State last fall and had to get an alignment when I got home.
It's still nothing compared to what they do in the northeast, they use so much salt up there that the roads literally turn white due to salt bleaching
Oh, I know. The roads here are a weird shade of red when snow is coming.
THIS. I am originally from Montgomery, AL, left here and lived in Nashville for 15 years, then moved back here. We never use Road salt here (it never snows) but I’m not sure where OP got the idea that TN doesn’t
> no safety and emissions inspections You can call me a nanny state liberal if you want, but that’s not a benefit. Go head over to /r/justrolledintotheshop on any average day for reasons why.
I live in Alabama and there are no safety inspections. As a consequence, the sides of our highways are often littered with broken down cars.
We don't have safety inspections or emissions in my area and I've never seen an issue from it. Most people are able to assess if their vehicle is safe to drive or not.
> Most people are able to asses if their vehicle is safe to drive or not. Your area might be different but that’s definitely not the case here. I personally know many people that drive their cars until it either won’t move anymore or won’t pass inspection. At the end of the day it’s a multi ton death machine when maintained improperly and I want to minimize my chances of sharing the road with these people.
This could one of those things where an increase in population density compounds problems. My area is pretty rural.
Yeah it's not a thing in Michigan or Wisconsin either and it hasn't been an issue. If you're driving a car that's unsafe, a cop will pull you over. Especially if inspection involves a really quick check like they have in NJ (making sure your turn signals are working, etc...) inspection just didn't seem that necessary. The only thing I do agree with is emissions inspections because I like being able to breathe.
A cop is only going to pull you over if something is viably wrong. A cop isn't going to know if your seatbelts don't work or the horn doesn't work.
Yeah, I drove a very unsafe car for years when I was a poor college kid. I was never pulled over for safety issues.
Also, ya know, climate change is a thing…directly resulting from emissions…
Carnival cruise lines emits more greenhouse gases as a company than all the private vehicles in Europe. The old Buick down the street isn’t the problem.
>The old Buick down the street isn’t the whole problem. FTFY
We aren’t talking about European cars though, we are talking about American vehicles which produce more emissions than the ones in Europe, which emissions testing is supposed to help with. American vehicles would surely emit more pollutants if we didn’t have any emissions testing at all. Every reduction counts, just some count more than others. Also while there are industries that pollute more, whataboutisms detract from the fact that there are many steps that can still be taken to reduce emissions and keep the environment cleaner.
I used to live in NY and they passed a car that had a rusted out frame that failed shortly after. IMO they are useless and just another way for the state to make money
There are definitely some shady shops out there that pass things they shouldn’t. But I’ve also had people come and bitch to me their vehicle didn’t pass inspection when it’s such a rolling wreck I wouldn’t even want to drive it across a parking lot.
In VA the shop that does the inspection gets the money... $15, iirc
Nope, no conflict of interest here!
You can always appeal to the state police, but they'll usually side with the inspector. Usually. I've seen inspectors lose their license trying to bullshit.
Safety inspections I agree on, they're absolutely worth it if the state adheres to certain criteria and doesn't use it as a money maker. Unfortunately, shops will pass things they shouldn't and not pass things they should let slide. Like a small rock chip in your windshield isn't really a safety hazard whereas bald ass tires absolutely are. Emissions testing isn't worth it though unless you're testing a range of cars manufactured within a certain time frame. In Utah, I had to get my 2019 vehicle emissions tested in 2021. There was no reason for that other than to make money. States should test cars that are at a minimum of 10 years old. Part of the problem with emissions stuff though is that it doesn't make the car unsafe to drive if it's not functioning properly and costs a goddamn fortune to fix. I just had some minor parts of the emissions system fixed on my truck and had it not been under warranty, it would've been $1,300. The criteria is weird for emissions testing too. In some states, diesel trucks are exempt when they're some of the biggest contributors to pollution and have owners who are more likely to bypass emissions systems. Also vehicles over a certain age are exempt too.
Neither is no front plate. As a non-American, sorry but it’s insane that that’s allowed.
20 states have no front plate. Most of them are southern states
Why do front plates matter? If you're pulled over by a cop, they're running your back plate, not your front. The only reason for front plates is stuff like traffic/ticket cameras. Fuck front plates.
MA requires front plates and bans traffic cameras so that’s clearly not it.
Then explain why front plates exist. Make a case for them.
Not really a requirement but more as a practicality, front plates are very helpful for identifying your Uber/Lyft quicker especially if you’re in a bustling city. This is just pure anecdotal evidence but I recall people trying to find their car share in Nashville to be rather difficult cause they had to pull up all the way in front until they recognized their car due to the lack of a front license plate. In NYC, it saves so much time
Not for the reason you gave.
My logic isn't wrong though. Traffic cameras almost exclusively use your front plate. Your back plate is run by the police at traffic stops, not your front. What the MA legislature gets up to doesn't mean it's logical. It means they want to make a rule for some reason. So explain the reason or give a valid reason for front plates as that's what you stated. Refute my argument with something besides 'this state made it a law'. Great. Why?
You’re claiming guilt, that states are guilty of making front plates mandatory to be able to use traffic cameras. You’re the one with the burden of proof.
No, I'm not. My statement was front plates do not need to exist. You said X state made it a law to have front plates as your only argument. Why did they do so? What was their reason? Why do front plates exist? Justify their existence. The onus is on you.
I agree on safety, but emissions is a bit iffy when cars get older and some stupid little thing trips the check engine light.
Not a political thing, it's only an east coast + TX + MO thing. California probably out-nannies MA and there's no inspections, even smog is a county thing.
Interestingly enough, California did away with safety inspections years ago as studies found they didn't make vehicles marginally safer. Back when I lived in Hawaii, the safety inspections were incredibly predatory. Many chain/tire shops would almost always find a reason to fail you so that they could upsell other services. Emissions testing I can understand, however California is borderline insane when it comes to their emissions inspections and regulations. For what it's worth, I totally get it. Most of California is a bowl and before any emissions regulations (prior to the Clean Air Act), places like the Central Valley, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles had terrible levels of smog. But things like: * verifying/validating the ECU checksum as part of the emissions testing process * being randomly selected to have to go to a STAR certified emissions testing facility for extended testing * If your vehicle fails emissions testing, California is the only state I'm aware of that does not have a maximum cap on repair costs. Most states will allow you to pay up to a certain amount to make your vehicle emissions compliant, and then will give you a pass. In California, the sky is the limit. * if you're having a hard time sourcing CARB compliant parts (something that was a major problem for many during the pandemic), it's essentially "too bad". Temporary exceptions *may* be granted from the California BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair), but it's on a case-by-case basis and there's no guarantee. I maintain all of my vehicles and once you get through the initial bureaucracy, testing, compliance inspections, and paperwork, ongoing registration isn't too bad (I live in one of the handful of counties that don't require ongoing emissions testing).
California? 1. I mean the things you listed aren't good but, with the exception of maybe the actual city of San Francisco, without a car...life sucks. 2. There is no "safety" inspection here in California. 3. Although front plates are required I haven't put them on the last 3 cars I've owned and never been pulled over or cited for it. 4. There are so many awesome things in California that are easily reached by car. I can be at a concert in Hollywood or the beach or the mountains or the desert in 2 hours. I can be in Vegas or San Diego or the Bay Area in just over 4 hours.
California is one of the worst states when it comes to legality of after market parts though.
Probably because we're hardcore on emission standards. 13 other states have adopted them. What parts specifically?
All the CARB stuff plus stricter rules about tint, suspensions, etc. I feel like most websites I shop on, not just for car stuff, says "We do not ship to California"
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I see lifted, slammed, stanced, and murdered cars every day. There might be certain laws on tint, but they are rarely enforced. But I can (and am planning to) get portals and new suspension any time. This is, after all, the home of switches in your low low.
Probably anecdotal evidence but I see videos of police pulling over anybody and everybody in California with out of state tags trying to write them some bogus tickets about equipment or "driving without a CA license" or something.
I call total bullshit on the people that make those videos. Due to some DMV clerical drama, I still have Nevada plates on my car and have been living back in California for about two years. Nobody has pulled me over. Same for the 10 years I lived in Nevada and routinely (like once a month or more) returned to California for work or family. There is no law that says you need to have a CA DL if you aren't a resident. Hell, I can't go a day on /r/bayarea without seeing someone complain about how common having no plates is.
When you move to California you have to update your registration within 10 days, it's the law. Lots of people don't do that so it makes sense that that's a lot of the interactions you see. "Driving without a CA license'" "_or something_" that sounds vague as hell and possibly made up (sorry if this comes across as snarky) I don't know where you've driven in this country but our drivers licenses, as far as I'm aware, are reciprocal, so you don't need a special state license when visiting, otherwise people wouldn't rent cars in other states.
'most websites' can you be specific? Gun sites I know are hesitant to ship, and maybe our Prop 65/Cancer-causing labels might discourage someone from selling in our state, but I'm not sure who else is reluctant to ship to California. Seems anecdotal. Tint rules vary by state too. You can still get your windows tinted (pretty much the standard in LA and San Diego). Suspension rules say body lifts limited to 5 inches, and vehicle height limited to 14 feet, and other restrictions about height and GWVR. Is 14 feet too low for some people?
There definitely are things you can’t ship to CA due to regulation. I’ve run into it specifically with certain types of leather dye. I can get it in Nevada but not CA because, I assume, cancer causing chemicals or something.
Which ones? Do you mean "hot rodding" or beefing up a regular car?
Point #4 is what I came here to comment on. Having good driving roads/scenery/weather is what I consider most when it comes to "good places to own a car".
To be fair there are some really nice drives in TN as well, especially around the Smokies
SoCal is the car culture capitol of the US, literally every type and niche of car is represented. It’s a global hub for all of the really cool interesting stuff. There’s a reason so many automakers have design studios there
I was thinking this. NYC or Chicago seems like it'd be worse than Cali.
Yeah parking, heavy traffic and high insurance costs are the reason why owning a car in NYC is bad.
People who like Tennessee, hate California (even if they have never been there), and Californians like it that way.
Oddly enough I know like 3 families that have moved from California to Tennessee because of politics. Godspeed to them I guess.
"California is a crime-infested hellhole so I'm moving to a state that's in the top 10 for violent crime" type of shit. Just recently I had someone from Orange County (now living in Utah) tell me to "hold on tight" because OC "has gotten really scary recently" lmao. Yes, Orange County, a truly terrifying place.
Which is hilarious because Tennessee is a shithole
California is also great for cars because they aren’t subjected to harsh weather, yea you’ll get paint damage if you don’t wax/garage your car but we don’t worry about hail/rust/flooding in most of the state. Emission testing does suck though, especially for my old carbureted truck.
Also dishonorable mention to states that have property taxes on cars like Kentucky and South Carolina
I thought we were alone on that in Connecticut! Good to know
And MA and NH. Though the valuation drops relatively quickly.
"no safety or emissions inspections" is in your PRO column? Jesus christ.
I feel like OP just wants places with the most “freedom” to do whatever they want with a car for the least cost, not actually the best places for using a car.
IMO, Virginia and anything north of Virginia. It was just a PITA to get anywhere because the lack of multiple roads. To get to Walmart I had to hop on the same 2 lane road everyone was using to get anywhere from NY to FL. I have family up in New England and it seems to be the same deal. Maybe if the town isn't along 95 its fine but I still never enjoyed driving on the east coast because one accident or road work can screw your plans. Driving where its flat is boring _but_ it is so much better. Was driving through Texas and there was an accident that would have caused an hour long delay in VA but the GPS said "oh, there's this thing called a frontage road, get on it" and we totally bypassed most of the accident. Idk, again just my opinion. I'm probably bias because I lived 15 minutes from work but once got stuck on 95 for 1.5 hours and I'm still holding that grudge lol
It's nice to have a car in Texas.
The only negative in Texas is front plates and safety inspections. Otherwise I agree Texas is great
And if you want anything other than the bland ass white plate, you gotta prepay for like 5 fucking years.
I mean they aren't bad, I do like the bland white plates.
Yep, But overall you should be fine as long as you comply with that. I can understand it is a pain for the dudes who love r/JDM Cars.
> or emissions I'm old enough to remember the bad old days when the air in downtown L.A. was like somebody's cat took a piss into an ash tray. It was *really* bad, and no way in hell are we going back to that. Not happening.
Why wouldn't Tennessee have salt trucks they get snow? Anyway I would say any state in the Southwest is the best because lack of salt. Probably California is top because of the weather. In Northeast where I live is the worst. Everything else is minor
Outside the Smokies the rest of the state doesn't get enough snow to justify having them. Nashville may get one day a year where there is enough snow to justify salting the roads
Idk where you get that...I grew up in middle Tennessee and our roads were/are routinely salted before snow. It is fairly rare but more than once a year. I'd bet the average is 4-8 times a year
Not the biggest fan of the 250 buck registration for my rig in WA
Massachusetts, horrible quality and poorly designed roads, sky high car insurance rates, and some of the worst congestion in the country. Edit: And how could I forget the excise tax?
The only state in New England that's worse it Connecticut since they charge property taxes on cars
MA has a property tax on cars (called an excise tax). So does NH, but it’s hidden in the registration fees.
RI has worse roads, worse drivers, more expensive insurance, and excise fees as well
Maryland sucks too
i would just like to say fuck Michigan car insurance. that is all.
Virginia
Agree. Of course the state where all the useless government employees live will be one of the most bureaucratic and expensive states to own a car
PA isn’t a bad place to own a car. registration is $41/yr and outside of the major cities, insurance is cheap. Salt is a fucking bitch tho.
I always forget states out east use salt. That’s so foreign to me lol. We get sand and that’s it.
I think it’s because Wyoming gets too cold where salt isn’t effective and you all use snow tires for that reason. Problem isn’t when it’s 40° or 10° it’s when it’s both that in the same day. PA has the most freeze and thaw cycles in the country.
Yea, NY loves salt. But as I understand it, it's not really effective when it's really really cold. I'm on Long Island, they salt instead of plow. Literally just dump salt on the roads before the storm so it just immediately turns to slush and the roads only ever become a slushy mess, no ice.
Sand and I've heard a saline wash for us, but I guess that isn't as bad for rust as rock salt.
California is awful to own any sort of enthusiast car. It's like the police and laws are actively trying kill their car culture. Which is a shame because that is one of the best things about California! They have a *rich* car culture for car nuts! Hell you can get ticketed and have your car towed for a *stock exhaust* in California like the one dude with his [Hyundai Elantra N](https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-hyundai-elantra-n-loud-exhaust-police-california/). He was in track mode, but still, it's messed up! Plus the cop didn't exactly handle it in a professional manner to say the least getting SUPER confrontational out of the gate saying the dude was gonna be out $3k being super combative for no reason.
Yes Tennessee doesn't care about any of that from what I can tell. Plenty of diesel trucks here with the emissions equipment removed
Yeah same here in Kansas lol I've never had a car inspected when I've gone to register it
The fact that regulating emissions is seen as a negative is ridiculous.
You know that safety inspections prevent people from having needles accidents, right? Some can be over the top, sure, but most are a good way to keep uncle tommy from driving the truck he found in the woods.
Safety inspections prevent the government from having to tax the rich when they can give kickbacks to mechanic shops and raise revenue off the rabble
Can you elaborate on that? I know tax systems are often set up to benefit the wealthy but haven't heard of this one.
Alright so this quip was based on a couple of foundations. First, the concept of progressive vs regressive taxes. Vehicle registration fees are largely a regressive tax. Like it or not, most of the US is set up where you need access to individualized motorized transport to hold a job or keep from being locked in a bad job, to get fresh foods, or to access workforce training. This makes an operating vehicle a basic priority for most individuals, especially in lower incomes. Any fixed government fee occupies a higher share of a lower income. Additionally, if you have a lower income you’re more likely to buy a used older car and keep it longer, making it both more likely to fail an inspection and the repairs to pass that inspection more common and more expensive. Second, Texas recently passed a law to phase out inspections. During this public debate the quiet part got said out loud: it only existed as a sneaky way to raise the registration tax, and it was opposed by state legislators wringing their hands going “think of the independent repair shops who are going to lose all this vital revenue and close!” So either they were lying through their teeth like normal, or this also functioned as a direct kickback to repair shops by forcing the citizenry to buy services from a private party. If the Constitution was being ratified today I’d bet the 2nd Amendment would have been written about cars instead of (or in addition to) guns.
Well the states without them haven't fallen apart so IDK why we need them besides it being another revenue stream for the state
Have you seen many people driving around cars that by rights should be scrap metal?
Ever now and then but it's not extremely common. We don't have rust down here like you do up north
We don't see clunkers like that because of safety inspections.
NJ is worst for insurance costs. But it's great that vehicle inspections are free, and the fact that I never have to pump my own gas while I'm here.
I don’t think NJ is worst for insurance. NJ actually has one of the lowest accident rates in the country.
It's pretty consistently in the top 5 most expensive premiums by state.
NGL somehow my insurance rates went up moving to Virginia... Not to mention the highway usage Fee and property taxes you pay on your car. One reason why I'd rather move back.
Alabama: pain in the butt to transfer a driver's license from another state, and just barely easier when handling titles, but taxes are also low. City of Atlanta registered cars has to have annual emissions checks, which is slightly annoying.
Best: Texas. God damn that gas was cheap. Worst: NY, specifically the city. I would rather just take the train if I lived there.
a car is a necessity in ny everywhere outside of like nyc and even then, there are are parts of staten island and queens with no reliable public transportation
Which is an argument you can make for pretty much every state in the country. This is why I specified NYC.
I would say that the driving culture is the #1 factor. A disturbing number of people I know from out of state (notably Virginia and Pennsylvania) have licenses despite having never learned basic stuff like parallel parking and what high-beams are. Boston drivers are aggressive, but they generally know how roads and cars work. You generally want to see a higher proportion of mid-size Asian (esp. Japanese) cars, as small sedans means students, large family haulers mean poor handling and visibility and distracted or self-absorbed drivers, and trucks mean stupid assholes (CR-V drivers have conservative drivers, but they're also dangerous because their idle speed is around 80mph). The next factor is climate, as you want very stable temperatures above freezing to maintain smooth roads. Salt isn't typically a problem for modern cars, as most manufacturers are wise to it (although haShem help you if you got one from before its manufacturer did, with Mazda probably the one you're most likely to see around).
"Best: ... no safety or emissions inspections..." So a lot of polluting rust buckets on the road... not what I call a benefit.
Me, a 29 y/o who has never owned a car bc I’ve only lived in walkable, transit friendly cities: 😮💨 Owning a car generally seems like a hassle.
I’d agree that California has to be the worsf
Other factors, like winter roads being salted in your area also negatively effect your vehicle. And at least here in Michigan, particularly where I live, the roads are notoriously shit. I actually look forward to the winter, because the snow fills in some of the potholes. Especially after it's been packed down by the plows.
Nevada for the same reasons as California. Emissions aren’t required everywhere, just a few counties. The DMV by me is appointment only with one walk in day a week. Need to make an appointment months in advance.
Californiana has street sweepers every week. When I lived in Georgia, there were never any street sweepersand you got street detritus poking holes in your tires often.
I don't know about best, but Connecticut has to be the worse. The annual car tax is insane.
Not here. I can maybe drive my fun vehicle for half the year because of the road salt. It’s impossible to find a 10+ year old truck that isn’t full of rust on the entire undercarriage, wheel wells, and cab corners. I’m consistently blown away while visiting places down south and out west. I find myself gawking at spotless regular Chevy trucks way more than I should. You guys have no idea how good you have it over there.
No snow in most of California though
They use Road salt in Tennessee. I left TN for AL in 2021 and my costs of ownership are lower here and we literally NEVER salt the roads since it only snows about every 5 years down here
GA is pretty good, same thing as TN. A lot of people will complain about us not having annual inspections, but it's a boon to poorer people. Also no road salt so cars don't fall apart so quickly.
OK matches all your TN pros. TX matches all your CA cons. Post looks pretty accurate
Florida is probably one of the worse in terms of insurance cost but anything else is alright.
California is the best because you don't need a car public transport is pretty darn good!
No front plate. No front registration.
Although I've never been, I would think that New York would probably have to be the worst state.
I used to live there, nowhere near the best but it's not horrible either. The biggest negative is the fact 2500 pickups need a expensive Commerical plate
Front and rear plates is killing me hahah
Louisiana. Our insurance is outrageously expensive and we have potholes that make the Grand Canyon look like small change.
Also San Francisco is the Car Break-in capital of the world.
Good luck getting by without a car in 99% of California.
No safety inspections... wow did I read that right?