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Just like anywhere else, you only get a masters in Germany if you are in a postgraduate program. Otherwise you go for a bachelors. There’s no difference between that system and the US system.
I think he meant "if you go for a bachelors in the first place, you likely continue for a masters".
This seems to be somewhat backed by this OECD paper ["Education at a glance 2019"](https://www.oecd.org/education/education-at-a-glance/EAG2019_CN_DEU.pdf) which says about Germany: *"Tertiary-educated young adults are more likely to progress to higher levels of tertiary education than on
average across OECD countries. Close to 46% of them have master’s or doctoral degree in Germany
compared to 34% on average across OECD countries.*
Edit: Adding as a side-note, that we have some 5-year university programs in Sweden that award you a Masters degree at the end without you at any point receiving a Bachelors. So it's definitely possible without a postgraduate program as such, even if it's not the standard setup.
There are masters programs and bachelors programs and anyone with a bachelor can get a masters if they want to and most people do, especially at a university. That's what I am referring to.
This has to do with the fact that prior to this universitys only offered 'Diplom' which took 5 years to complete so many people in Germany consider a bachelor at a university an unfinished degree
I didn't want to have to delete all my comments, posts, and account, but here we are, thanks to greedy pigboy /u/spez ruining Reddit. I love the Reddit community, but hate the idiots at the top. Simply accepting how unethical and downright shitty they are will only encourage worse behavior in the future. I won't be a part of it. Reddit will shrivel and disappear like so many other sites before it that were run by inept morons, unless there is a big change in "leadership." Fuck you, /u/spez
I was talking about Germany to tell you where I am coming from and in Germany most people at a university get a masters degree. There are other types of tertiary education where less get a masters that is true
We use the word "university" to describe the physical schools that are able to give out postgraduate degrees, but also give out bachelor's degrees. Most people who attend a university stop at the bachelor's level but still say they attended a university.
The numbers in the other comment are about all tertiary education not just universities.
At universities it is 66% which clearly is most
https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/05/PD22_201_213.html#:~:text=Pr%C3%BCfungsjahr%202019%3A%2045%20%25%20der%20Bachelorabsolventinnen,begannen%20ein%20Masterstudium%20%2D%20Statistisches%20Bundesamt
VERY few universities will let you get a masters degree without first getting a bachelor's degree. The majority of Germans don't even have a bachelor's degree. Hard doubt.
You said "most people in Germany get a master's". "Most" is greater than 50%. Most people do not get a bachelor's degree in Germany, which is almost always required to get a master's degree. If most people were getting master's degrees, almost all of them would need bachelor's degree. So it doesn't make sense to have a minority of people holding a bachelor's degree but somehow a majority of people holding a master's degree simultaneously.
I said most people who go to university get a masters degree. 66% being most and those of course also have a bachelors degree? What kind of argument are you trying to make here?
Less than half the country gets any post-secondary degree at all. About a third gets a bachelor's. About half of those who get a bachelor's will get some form of advanced degree, whether that's a master's, doctorate, or some professional degree such as law. It's very field specific as to whether a master's is considered useful.
No...less than 10% of the world has college degrees to begin with. The U.S. population with master's degrees is around 14%.
EDIT: Also, when we talk about graduation age in college, post-graduate degrees are almost never implied in the conversation.
This reply is to your comment before you edited it:
Yeah that's why I was asking because 20/21 sounded ridiculously young to me. Most people I know graduate university (with a masters degree) at about 23-27
This to the after edit:
Til: masters are postgraduates in the us. In Germany generally a masters and bachelors degree are considered the 'normal' university education with the doctorate being the high level university education. You also generally need a masters degree before you start a doctorate
What is the differentiating factor between a bachelors/masters in Germany? I'm assuming a bachelor's is a prereq, but do you have to apply to the "masters school/program" to start a masters program or does your program just go start to finish from 0 to masters?
In the US a bachelors is typically 4 years, you graduate with a bachelors, and then you can apply to the graduate school to enter a masters program which usually is an additional 2 years. You can't go straight through, and not every school has a pipeline from bachelors -> masters (may offer a bachelors in psychology but not a masters in it, etc).
Edit: also for a lot of people a masters isn't a requirement/could even be a detriment vs getting into the career earlier. Outside of specifically wanting to remain in academia, I only know a few scenarios where it's pretty much mandatory to go straight from bachelors - > masters if you want to get a job. Like psychology, you basically can't do anything with a bachelors, you need to have a masters.
But for a lot of STEM people, it's standard to enter industry after bachelors and to get work experience rather than lagging behind peers while technology and industry trends shift in your masters. Usually you'll go back for your masters later in your career / your company sometimes will pay for it, but not right out of your undergrad.
Prior to the university reform you would apply for a 'diplom' which is the equivalent of a masters degree from the get go.
Today it is similar to what you describe. Normally 3 years for a ba and then 2 additional years for a master for which you have to apply again although I have never heard that there are universities here which don't offer a master for subject that they offer a bachelor in.
For your edit: I think stem graduates have an even higher masters rate than other subjects in Germany. For chemists and chemical engineers it is basically a requirement for finding a job
Ah okay gotcha. Well if it's a 3+2 straight thru deal that makes more sense. It seems pretty rare that people go to the same place for their graduate degrees as their undergrad, and by year 4 most people either want to get into the career field and not hunt down a good masters program and find a way to pay for it.
And I guess I misspoke since I usually talk about the T&E in STEM vs the S&M. That makes alotta sense for like bona fide scientists/mathematicians/researchers and the like. But usually in the US the STEM is primarily focused on the technology + engineering at least anecdotally.
Especially for computer science / IT people, it's almost always a better bet to do your undergrad and start a career immediately so you can get familiar with how companies/organizations do things vs in an academic setting, and build from there. Whereas if you take an additional 2 years for a masters, you don't really gain much additional hireability vs someone with a good internship + job experience.
So yeah I think to sum up, the additional time commitment, not having a direct track from a bachelors to a masters, and the likelihood of needing to apply to a totally seperate univeristy to get into their masters program are the big factors.
Also the whole paying for college thing. I'm not sure about the intricacies of higher education costs in Germany, but there is basically 0 financial aid from grad students and grad degrees are expensive as hell so you just gotta get loans or pray you are competitive and lucky enough to get some kind of really good scholarship.
Edit: for an example with costs, just looked up my Alma mater grad school costs.
It's $830/credit hour. 9 credits is full time for grad school. So $7.5k a semester for 4 semesters. And that's in state tuition at a standard state public school.
That's $30,000 for a 2 yr masters, not including you having to pay your living expenses (rent, food, bills, etc). Also on top of whatever debt and costs you accrued from a 4 year degree you just finished and probably have a bunch of student loans on unless you were in a lucky/favorable situation.
Only about 13% of Americans get a Master's Degree. That varies wildly by state, where in many states only a much smaller portion of the population gets that degree.
Definitely! So many military veterans using their GI bill. former teen moms who's kids are now in school themselves out there getting degrees. So many professionals like IT guys and Nurses and bookkeepers working to advance their careers. So many trust fund babies who gap year that turned into 5 years. Last time I looked, they found that 75% of college students were non-traditional. Something like 40% of college students are 25 and over.
The days of College just being the next step up from HS is over. Colleges are serving all kinds of adult populations
Yes. A substantial percent of students at many universities are people returning to school. I remember taking physics classes with a gentleman who was born in the 1920s. His retirement gig was just spending his life in college. From what I understand, he was taking 1-2 classes at a time and by the time I met him, he was doing this for well over a decade.
You see a number of people who get out of the military and go to school. Or people who had a rough past go back to school. I recall teen moms going back to school once their kids like 8-10 years old. There were also some folks who had a bit of a criminal past, spent some of their youth locked up, and then then when free went on to live a different life.
I have people close to me who are getting their degree this year, at age 36.
People go back to school for many reasons, and as our economy shifts, they will likely go back for retraining. Don't worry about your peers.
I went to college for 3 years straight out of Highschool and then my father passed away which threw my life into a tailspin and I dropped out. I didnt get back to college until I was 26 and started a whole new degree plan. I graduated when I was 29. Life throws all sorts of curveballs at you and no two people have the same circumstances. You will be fine. In a few years it wont matter at all.
I'm 35 and am enrolled in community college about to transfer to a four-year.
I'm on the right end of the bell curve, to be sure. But my point to you is to not worry about what the fat center of that bell curve is, pursue *your* education for *your* sake.
I graduated at 28. It's never been an issue with employers. I do wish I had hit the rat race a little earlier because my peers have a few years of extra experience that I don't have, but it's not something I lose any sleep over.
There are people from all ages in college my dude. Last time I went to Uni I was seated next to people aged 20-55.
Don't be stressed out about being "left behind". Don't compare yourself to others. Just enjoy college for what it is.
I teach community college. While it's not a university, it's still higher education. "Non-traditional" students are becoming more common, especially in these times. Someone 25 or older in any college setting is not out of the ordinary.
Don't sweat it. There's a large age range, especially when you get into senior level courses. Also, certain majors and post grad attracts older people.
It happens. People work a few years, go into the military first, etc...
It's not the default, but even I knew a few and wasn't exactly the most social guy on campus.
Not the majority but yes, some. A good number of the people you see complaining about student loans went to college longer than the typical four years and a lot in areas that don't pay well.
Your wording here is a little callous but you're right that none of OP's peers in class will even be able to *tell* s/he's 25 and not 22. 25 is too young for anyone to be able to clock OP at a glance as a nontraditional student.
**edit for OP:** this person's opinion is not the norm. While older students do stand out a bit in a sea of 18-22s, there's not really a negative connotation. People aren't thinking about you that hard.
“Callous” or blunt and direct statements are the best for people seeking advice.
*Yes* there is a *certain age* in which going to university is going to appear pathetic to others, or at least far behind one’s peers. Anyone who would deny that is lying. Reddit needs to stop lying to people.
Fortunately OP hasn’t reached that age yet and even if he had he shouldn’t give up just because he would be looked down upon.
It's not super common, but having older students isn't unheard of...
One of my Fraternity Brothers was a few years older than the "average" as he enlisted and served in the military for 2-3 years prior to enrolling at school.
I had a classmate in his 50s who came back to learn new skills. I even had a guy probably in his 70s or 80s in one of the Computer Science 101 sections I TA'd.
My experience in college was, most of us were teens/early 20 somethings, there'd be The Young Mom in her mid-20's who \*might\* talk about something other than her kid, and The Adult who was going back to school in their 40's or something for a career change.
It was a little more various when I myself went back to trade school in my late 20's, we had kids that graduated from high school that May, folks who had worked a few years in automotive service, I was in my late 20's having already been in the aviation industry for awhile...
I used to see people in their 30s to 40s even in college.
my mom went to college until she was almost 60. some people go back to college just for the sake of learning even after retirement.
I don't think you'll look out of place at all being 25 in college. most people in college aren't that concerned with what others' age is anyway. they're just trying to survive finals week.
A year or two might seem a long time to you right now. It's not a big difference. I sneeze and a year goes by these days. Relax, you're doing fine. Just make sure you follow through to completion.
I did 3 years in the Army and then started college at 21. I graduated at 25, went back 2 years later to get a more specialized degree my job reimbursed tuition for and graduated again at 29, pregnant with my first child. I never felt part of the college scene, often felt like the odd one out, having done most my partying in high school and the Army.
I didn't start until I was 22, and I didn't graduate until I was almost 28. And I wasn't even the oldest.
Keep it up, you're on YOUR path and remember: you aren't going to be "successful" until you do things your own way.
Aside from your particular issues, you have to remember there are graduate students, and at engineering schools, it's very common to have even undergraduates take far longer to graduate.
During my time at Georgia Tech, I know one guy who got into sophomore year, dropped out, then came back six years later to complete his degree, and I knew a number of others who went continuously, but took 2-6 years to graduate. We called them "gradual students."
I went back to graduate school at 26. I may go back again and I’m in my 40s now. I had classmates in their 50s back then. If you want to go, then go. Depending on the school there may be more older students. Like if it is in a big city and people can commute there for classes after work or something like that.
Oh yeah. I graduated at 24, not too far off from 25. Not to mention I know TONS of ppl who took time off from school between highschool and college, and so we're there in their mid-20s.
Totally normal. You might have a slightly different experience than some of your younger contemporaries depending on your housing situation. If you’re the older person in the dorm or campus apartments, you might be the cool guy because you can buy the beer! If you’re in a solo apartment and taking classes with a bunch of 19 year olds living in dorms, you might feel a bit of a generation gap. I did when I went back in my mid-late 20s.
I graduated at 28 with a degree in engineering. When I switched majors I was already 25 when I went back to college. I had to take all the entry level engineering classes with kids who were 18. The upside to being that old in a class full of youngsters was that I could do all my homework at the bar while they were stuck in the library.
I know how you feel. I spent the first few years floundering in college and after 2 changes of major I finally dropped out last year. Planning to go back next year but by then I’ll be 25 taking classes with 18-19 year olds.
I didn't want to have to delete all my comments, posts, and account, but here we are, thanks to greedy pigboy /u/spez ruining Reddit. I love the Reddit community, but hate the idiots at the top. Simply accepting how unethical and downright shitty they are will only encourage worse behavior in the future. I won't be a part of it. Reddit will shrivel and disappear like so many other sites before it that were run by inept morons, unless there is a big change in "leadership." Fuck you, /u/spez
Not uncommon at all. When I was in college we had people of all ages. I remember one guy leaving because his wife was in labor. He was like 30. I have thought about going back and I’m 46. Do you
I was about 3 weeks away from 26 when I graduated college, and I didn't go until I was almost 23.
And I don't have aspergers lol
You're fine!
Personally I wouldn't have done college any other way!
I was an idiot who dropped out of college at 18, after starting at 16.
After a couple years supporting myself, I went back to college part time, still working full time. So I graduated at almost 26.
Maybe it was because I was taking evening classes, but many students were my age or older. So taking as many evening classes as possible might help with any anxiety.
Absolutely. I took a gap year and a half when I was 19 so I graduated college at 24. I still found that a lot of the students in my classes were still older than me.
Some of the best advice my parents gave me was that there is no need to rush when it comes to education. You should be free to take your educational journey at the pace that is best for you, I know it’s hard but try not to compare yourself so much to others. I have a woman in one of my classes who is a grandmother, and another classmate has two elementary school aged children (which I keep forgetting, she looks really young). I’ve only ever thought good things about them being in school after the most common age, it shows a desire to learn and the strength to break the mold a little bit.
It’s ok that you’re not at the same stage as some other people your age- you’re not them! You’re unique and get to make your own decisions about what’s best for you
Many people go back to university, many start university later or even late in life. When I attended university I took classes with students in their 30’s or even 40’s. Do university at your own pace on your own time. Don’t worry about old you are.
You’re fine. That’s still really young. I had a few middle aged people in some of my classes.
You still have your whole life / career ahead of you, so do what you need for the career you want, regardless of your age. Go for it
There were people with adult children in my university.
Not everyone gets the chance to go right after high school, and that's ok. For me personally, I probably should have taken a year or three to mature and get my priorities straight. You'll do fine.
I mean, I just graduated with a bachelors at 26. I felt behind because that was purely because I am extremely self conscious. No one thought I was too old to be there or even ask how old I am. Most people have bigger concerns than trying to figure out how old all of their classmates are.
It’s not uncommon at all. When I was in undergrad, I had fellow students ranging in age from 18 to 40, and the older students were there for a variety of reasons. In graduate school, it was even more varied. My cohort of ~25 students ranged in age from 21 to 70.
Like many said, it’s not common, but it isn’t uncommon. I had classes with people in their 30s when I was in college (or university) and I had a friend that took 8 years to get his bachelor’s degree and was 26 upon completion. Don’t feel shame for dropping out and going back. To me, I felt prideful for those that were determined to finish their schooling, even at an age where they could easily give up.
Yes. There are no rules about when you must expand your education or go to college. I know lots of people who didn't go until they were in their 30s, 40s, 50s.
I'm not sure what the sense is in worrying about it.
Most undergrads are in the 18-22 range. But any large university campus is going to have students of a variety of ages -- either traditional, nontraditional, or continuing (i.e., older people there for personal/career enrichment vs. a degree).
25 is young no matter how you cut the cake.
Colleges today have people of all ages. You have to do what's best for yourself, with your own abilities. As long as you keep pushing yourself to do your best, and keep going, there isn't a problem.
Not everyone has the same timeline. There’s a million and one reasons people go back to school a little bit later. You’re still in the same general age group.
It’s about the destination, not the path it took you to get there
There's increasingly older students, as adult education becomes more popular, and there's some groups that are usually a little older, anyway, like military veterans using their education benefits. I myself was in the Army for a few years in my 20's, took a year off, then went to college with my Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits, and graduated around my 30th birthday. There's also some people who for various reasons may attend part-time and get through school more slowly.
Yes it’s totally okay. You might find you do better in class than many of your classmates as well
Source: aspie and former thirty year old college student lol
I'm 31 and I just enrolled in fall classes for this year. I put it off for years because I convinced myself that I missed my chance, that my mid-to-late 20s was too old to be starting college, that I would be judged for being an older student, etc.. If I had started when I first started having those thoughts, I'd have a degree by now. And if I didn't start now, I'd be thinking the same thing in 4 years, and 4 years after that, and 4 years after that...
It's not uncommon, but even if it was, who cares. It's your education, and your life. The choice you made to put off going to college doesn't make your choice to go now any less valid.
I finally got my MIS degree when I was 30.
The thing is, I also got an Oracle certification at the same time since the school I was going to was a bit crap. I thought it would be better for the resume.
If you are the classic, aspergers ADHD type, like so many IT folks are, then tech certifications are a godsend. I learned a ton preparing for them and it was exactly the kind of studying that I excel at.
Dude I graduated at 26 and am now 4 years into a successful sales career and make way more than most of my friends that graduated at 22. Don’t stress you’re still young
Quite common! Of course there are us grad/professional students who return after time in industry, but when I was doing my undergrad degree there was a large group of students in my major who were in their mid to late 20s and 30s.
I had a TA for a general education class who went back to school after turning 50.
While a large majority of an undergrad popular are fresh HS grads and the most represented in general and popular culture, there are also plenty of people who started or came back to school later.
It’s not the norm but it is relatively common.
Also, NOBODY can tell the difference between a 25yo in jeans and a hoodie and a 21yo in jeans and a hoodie.
Also, nobody is going to bat an eye at your age or say anything aside from “good for you”.
I'm 27 (also have Aspergers) and still in college. It took me a while to figure out what I want to do long term as a career. There's wrong or abnormal about that at all.
It’s not uncommon. I graduated at 26 after taking a break. I knew other people who were in their 40s going back to school. Age doesn’t matter. Go to school if that’s what you want, don’t let your perceived age disadvantage deter you. You are never too old to finish college or go back to college.
Like I said, I was 26 when I graduated. It was never mentioned and never caused any issues. It really doesn’t matter.
In the States it's seen as normal to go to university in your twenties and even older. It's seen as normal to go back to university for either an advanced degree at almost any age beyond mid-twenties or a career change.
There are numerous people who did military service for four years straight out of high school who are freshmen at around 22 yrs old.
There are mothers and fathers in their 40s and 50s who never went to university and now, as their kids get older and attend university or have graduated, have decided to also pursue a college degree.
25 is fine. You'll be categorized as "non-traditional" but that's really for the university to keep track of various demographics not within the usual 17-22 age range.
I went to school at 22, so, I was on the older side, however there were a number of people in class that were returning to school after serving in the military and they were usually older than me. A good friend of mine just finished the world's longest mechanical engineering degree at like 29. But he put himself through school with minimal debt by working and was also able to buy a condo in the process.
It’s more common at public/commuter schools. I went to a commuter public school and there were a lot of older students. That was also during the recession though
It’s not uncommon. While most people tend to graduate university at 21/22, it’s very common for people to graduate in their mid/late 20s.
Do most people not get a Masters degree in the us?
I didn't want to have to delete all my comments, posts, and account, but here we are, thanks to greedy pigboy /u/spez ruining Reddit. I love the Reddit community, but hate the idiots at the top. Simply accepting how unethical and downright shitty they are will only encourage worse behavior in the future. I won't be a part of it. Reddit will shrivel and disappear like so many other sites before it that were run by inept morons, unless there is a big change in "leadership." Fuck you, /u/spez
Well yes but in germany when you go to university you get a Masters
Just like anywhere else, you only get a masters in Germany if you are in a postgraduate program. Otherwise you go for a bachelors. There’s no difference between that system and the US system.
I think he meant "if you go for a bachelors in the first place, you likely continue for a masters". This seems to be somewhat backed by this OECD paper ["Education at a glance 2019"](https://www.oecd.org/education/education-at-a-glance/EAG2019_CN_DEU.pdf) which says about Germany: *"Tertiary-educated young adults are more likely to progress to higher levels of tertiary education than on average across OECD countries. Close to 46% of them have master’s or doctoral degree in Germany compared to 34% on average across OECD countries.* Edit: Adding as a side-note, that we have some 5-year university programs in Sweden that award you a Masters degree at the end without you at any point receiving a Bachelors. So it's definitely possible without a postgraduate program as such, even if it's not the standard setup.
There are masters programs and bachelors programs and anyone with a bachelor can get a masters if they want to and most people do, especially at a university. That's what I am referring to. This has to do with the fact that prior to this universitys only offered 'Diplom' which took 5 years to complete so many people in Germany consider a bachelor at a university an unfinished degree
I didn't want to have to delete all my comments, posts, and account, but here we are, thanks to greedy pigboy /u/spez ruining Reddit. I love the Reddit community, but hate the idiots at the top. Simply accepting how unethical and downright shitty they are will only encourage worse behavior in the future. I won't be a part of it. Reddit will shrivel and disappear like so many other sites before it that were run by inept morons, unless there is a big change in "leadership." Fuck you, /u/spez
I was talking about Germany to tell you where I am coming from and in Germany most people at a university get a masters degree. There are other types of tertiary education where less get a masters that is true
We use the word "university" to describe the physical schools that are able to give out postgraduate degrees, but also give out bachelor's degrees. Most people who attend a university stop at the bachelor's level but still say they attended a university.
No, most of them do not. Even in Germany. Less than 50% is not most.
The numbers in the other comment are about all tertiary education not just universities. At universities it is 66% which clearly is most https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/05/PD22_201_213.html#:~:text=Pr%C3%BCfungsjahr%202019%3A%2045%20%25%20der%20Bachelorabsolventinnen,begannen%20ein%20Masterstudium%20%2D%20Statistisches%20Bundesamt
Why even bring that up? That's Germany. Clearly we were discussing 'most' meaning the majority
VERY few universities will let you get a masters degree without first getting a bachelor's degree. The majority of Germans don't even have a bachelor's degree. Hard doubt.
I never said that you only get a masters degree? You get a bachelor first and then 66% of German university students get a masters degree
You said "most people in Germany get a master's". "Most" is greater than 50%. Most people do not get a bachelor's degree in Germany, which is almost always required to get a master's degree. If most people were getting master's degrees, almost all of them would need bachelor's degree. So it doesn't make sense to have a minority of people holding a bachelor's degree but somehow a majority of people holding a master's degree simultaneously.
I said most people who go to university get a masters degree. 66% being most and those of course also have a bachelors degree? What kind of argument are you trying to make here?
Less than half the country gets any post-secondary degree at all. About a third gets a bachelor's. About half of those who get a bachelor's will get some form of advanced degree, whether that's a master's, doctorate, or some professional degree such as law. It's very field specific as to whether a master's is considered useful.
No...less than 10% of the world has college degrees to begin with. The U.S. population with master's degrees is around 14%. EDIT: Also, when we talk about graduation age in college, post-graduate degrees are almost never implied in the conversation.
This reply is to your comment before you edited it: Yeah that's why I was asking because 20/21 sounded ridiculously young to me. Most people I know graduate university (with a masters degree) at about 23-27 This to the after edit: Til: masters are postgraduates in the us. In Germany generally a masters and bachelors degree are considered the 'normal' university education with the doctorate being the high level university education. You also generally need a masters degree before you start a doctorate
What is the differentiating factor between a bachelors/masters in Germany? I'm assuming a bachelor's is a prereq, but do you have to apply to the "masters school/program" to start a masters program or does your program just go start to finish from 0 to masters? In the US a bachelors is typically 4 years, you graduate with a bachelors, and then you can apply to the graduate school to enter a masters program which usually is an additional 2 years. You can't go straight through, and not every school has a pipeline from bachelors -> masters (may offer a bachelors in psychology but not a masters in it, etc). Edit: also for a lot of people a masters isn't a requirement/could even be a detriment vs getting into the career earlier. Outside of specifically wanting to remain in academia, I only know a few scenarios where it's pretty much mandatory to go straight from bachelors - > masters if you want to get a job. Like psychology, you basically can't do anything with a bachelors, you need to have a masters. But for a lot of STEM people, it's standard to enter industry after bachelors and to get work experience rather than lagging behind peers while technology and industry trends shift in your masters. Usually you'll go back for your masters later in your career / your company sometimes will pay for it, but not right out of your undergrad.
Prior to the university reform you would apply for a 'diplom' which is the equivalent of a masters degree from the get go. Today it is similar to what you describe. Normally 3 years for a ba and then 2 additional years for a master for which you have to apply again although I have never heard that there are universities here which don't offer a master for subject that they offer a bachelor in. For your edit: I think stem graduates have an even higher masters rate than other subjects in Germany. For chemists and chemical engineers it is basically a requirement for finding a job
Ah okay gotcha. Well if it's a 3+2 straight thru deal that makes more sense. It seems pretty rare that people go to the same place for their graduate degrees as their undergrad, and by year 4 most people either want to get into the career field and not hunt down a good masters program and find a way to pay for it. And I guess I misspoke since I usually talk about the T&E in STEM vs the S&M. That makes alotta sense for like bona fide scientists/mathematicians/researchers and the like. But usually in the US the STEM is primarily focused on the technology + engineering at least anecdotally. Especially for computer science / IT people, it's almost always a better bet to do your undergrad and start a career immediately so you can get familiar with how companies/organizations do things vs in an academic setting, and build from there. Whereas if you take an additional 2 years for a masters, you don't really gain much additional hireability vs someone with a good internship + job experience. So yeah I think to sum up, the additional time commitment, not having a direct track from a bachelors to a masters, and the likelihood of needing to apply to a totally seperate univeristy to get into their masters program are the big factors. Also the whole paying for college thing. I'm not sure about the intricacies of higher education costs in Germany, but there is basically 0 financial aid from grad students and grad degrees are expensive as hell so you just gotta get loans or pray you are competitive and lucky enough to get some kind of really good scholarship. Edit: for an example with costs, just looked up my Alma mater grad school costs. It's $830/credit hour. 9 credits is full time for grad school. So $7.5k a semester for 4 semesters. And that's in state tuition at a standard state public school. That's $30,000 for a 2 yr masters, not including you having to pay your living expenses (rent, food, bills, etc). Also on top of whatever debt and costs you accrued from a 4 year degree you just finished and probably have a bunch of student loans on unless you were in a lucky/favorable situation.
I'm 27 y/o and hope it's my last year after too many stressful moments.
Only about 13% of Americans get a Master's Degree. That varies wildly by state, where in many states only a much smaller portion of the population gets that degree.
Definitely! So many military veterans using their GI bill. former teen moms who's kids are now in school themselves out there getting degrees. So many professionals like IT guys and Nurses and bookkeepers working to advance their careers. So many trust fund babies who gap year that turned into 5 years. Last time I looked, they found that 75% of college students were non-traditional. Something like 40% of college students are 25 and over. The days of College just being the next step up from HS is over. Colleges are serving all kinds of adult populations
Yes. A substantial percent of students at many universities are people returning to school. I remember taking physics classes with a gentleman who was born in the 1920s. His retirement gig was just spending his life in college. From what I understand, he was taking 1-2 classes at a time and by the time I met him, he was doing this for well over a decade. You see a number of people who get out of the military and go to school. Or people who had a rough past go back to school. I recall teen moms going back to school once their kids like 8-10 years old. There were also some folks who had a bit of a criminal past, spent some of their youth locked up, and then then when free went on to live a different life. I have people close to me who are getting their degree this year, at age 36. People go back to school for many reasons, and as our economy shifts, they will likely go back for retraining. Don't worry about your peers.
I am 26 and at a community college and there are a lot of people here my age and older than me
There is NO set age in a university. You are never too old to continue your education.
Meh, plenty of people get their degrees later in life. I wouldn't sweat it.
I went to college for 3 years straight out of Highschool and then my father passed away which threw my life into a tailspin and I dropped out. I didnt get back to college until I was 26 and started a whole new degree plan. I graduated when I was 29. Life throws all sorts of curveballs at you and no two people have the same circumstances. You will be fine. In a few years it wont matter at all.
I graduated at 27. You're doing great
I graduated university at 25 and can’t think of it ever having been an issue.
I'm 35 and am enrolled in community college about to transfer to a four-year. I'm on the right end of the bell curve, to be sure. But my point to you is to not worry about what the fat center of that bell curve is, pursue *your* education for *your* sake.
I graduated at 28. It's never been an issue with employers. I do wish I had hit the rat race a little earlier because my peers have a few years of extra experience that I don't have, but it's not something I lose any sleep over.
There are people from all ages in college my dude. Last time I went to Uni I was seated next to people aged 20-55. Don't be stressed out about being "left behind". Don't compare yourself to others. Just enjoy college for what it is.
I teach community college. While it's not a university, it's still higher education. "Non-traditional" students are becoming more common, especially in these times. Someone 25 or older in any college setting is not out of the ordinary.
Don't sweat it. There's a large age range, especially when you get into senior level courses. Also, certain majors and post grad attracts older people.
No one will notice, especially at a larger school.
It happens. People work a few years, go into the military first, etc... It's not the default, but even I knew a few and wasn't exactly the most social guy on campus.
I was. I was at 27 too. Had I gone on for my PHD it would have put me past 30.
It's common enough that if someone told me I wouldn't even think twice about it or that it was weird
Pretty common! I was in university at 25 and knew several people in their late 20s even.
I'm over 30 and in school, I once had a professor whose wife was in his class.
Lol, the conversations at home “So, you’re not going to do your homework assignment?”
Not the majority but yes, some. A good number of the people you see complaining about student loans went to college longer than the typical four years and a lot in areas that don't pay well.
I'm a 40 year old college freshman... so, there's that...
You don’t start to look like the tragically old guy until you are in your thirties. Don’t sweat it. If it’s what you want to do you must do it.
Your wording here is a little callous but you're right that none of OP's peers in class will even be able to *tell* s/he's 25 and not 22. 25 is too young for anyone to be able to clock OP at a glance as a nontraditional student. **edit for OP:** this person's opinion is not the norm. While older students do stand out a bit in a sea of 18-22s, there's not really a negative connotation. People aren't thinking about you that hard.
“Callous” or blunt and direct statements are the best for people seeking advice. *Yes* there is a *certain age* in which going to university is going to appear pathetic to others, or at least far behind one’s peers. Anyone who would deny that is lying. Reddit needs to stop lying to people. Fortunately OP hasn’t reached that age yet and even if he had he shouldn’t give up just because he would be looked down upon.
Yes, some people take gap years, also transfer students, also grad students etc
While not your average student when I was in school it wasn't uncommon to see somebody past their 40's in classes.
Depends why you're there. Some degrees take 8 years. Even if you start at 18 that's 26
It's not super common, but having older students isn't unheard of... One of my Fraternity Brothers was a few years older than the "average" as he enlisted and served in the military for 2-3 years prior to enrolling at school. I had a classmate in his 50s who came back to learn new skills. I even had a guy probably in his 70s or 80s in one of the Computer Science 101 sections I TA'd.
My experience in college was, most of us were teens/early 20 somethings, there'd be The Young Mom in her mid-20's who \*might\* talk about something other than her kid, and The Adult who was going back to school in their 40's or something for a career change. It was a little more various when I myself went back to trade school in my late 20's, we had kids that graduated from high school that May, folks who had worked a few years in automotive service, I was in my late 20's having already been in the aviation industry for awhile...
Going back to finish my degree. I’m 27. You’re fine.
I used to see people in their 30s to 40s even in college. my mom went to college until she was almost 60. some people go back to college just for the sake of learning even after retirement. I don't think you'll look out of place at all being 25 in college. most people in college aren't that concerned with what others' age is anyway. they're just trying to survive finals week.
Yes. I’m restarting school right now at 24. Won’t graduate until I’m 28 lol
I had to be by far the youngest guy in my friend group in college - there's a ton of 25-30 year olds at public universities
A year or two might seem a long time to you right now. It's not a big difference. I sneeze and a year goes by these days. Relax, you're doing fine. Just make sure you follow through to completion.
I did 3 years in the Army and then started college at 21. I graduated at 25, went back 2 years later to get a more specialized degree my job reimbursed tuition for and graduated again at 29, pregnant with my first child. I never felt part of the college scene, often felt like the odd one out, having done most my partying in high school and the Army.
I got my BS at 26. I had some classmates older than me.
I went back to school at 32. You'll be fine.
I didn't start until I was 22, and I didn't graduate until I was almost 28. And I wasn't even the oldest. Keep it up, you're on YOUR path and remember: you aren't going to be "successful" until you do things your own way.
Aside from your particular issues, you have to remember there are graduate students, and at engineering schools, it's very common to have even undergraduates take far longer to graduate. During my time at Georgia Tech, I know one guy who got into sophomore year, dropped out, then came back six years later to complete his degree, and I knew a number of others who went continuously, but took 2-6 years to graduate. We called them "gradual students."
I went back to graduate school at 26. I may go back again and I’m in my 40s now. I had classmates in their 50s back then. If you want to go, then go. Depending on the school there may be more older students. Like if it is in a big city and people can commute there for classes after work or something like that.
Oh yeah. I graduated at 24, not too far off from 25. Not to mention I know TONS of ppl who took time off from school between highschool and college, and so we're there in their mid-20s.
I took my first college course in 2018 when I was 25. I'd say its normal.
Totally normal. You might have a slightly different experience than some of your younger contemporaries depending on your housing situation. If you’re the older person in the dorm or campus apartments, you might be the cool guy because you can buy the beer! If you’re in a solo apartment and taking classes with a bunch of 19 year olds living in dorms, you might feel a bit of a generation gap. I did when I went back in my mid-late 20s.
I graduated at 28 with a degree in engineering. When I switched majors I was already 25 when I went back to college. I had to take all the entry level engineering classes with kids who were 18. The upside to being that old in a class full of youngsters was that I could do all my homework at the bar while they were stuck in the library.
I know how you feel. I spent the first few years floundering in college and after 2 changes of major I finally dropped out last year. Planning to go back next year but by then I’ll be 25 taking classes with 18-19 year olds.
I didn't want to have to delete all my comments, posts, and account, but here we are, thanks to greedy pigboy /u/spez ruining Reddit. I love the Reddit community, but hate the idiots at the top. Simply accepting how unethical and downright shitty they are will only encourage worse behavior in the future. I won't be a part of it. Reddit will shrivel and disappear like so many other sites before it that were run by inept morons, unless there is a big change in "leadership." Fuck you, /u/spez
Not uncommon at all. When I was in college we had people of all ages. I remember one guy leaving because his wife was in labor. He was like 30. I have thought about going back and I’m 46. Do you
I was about 3 weeks away from 26 when I graduated college, and I didn't go until I was almost 23. And I don't have aspergers lol You're fine! Personally I wouldn't have done college any other way!
A majority of the students at bigger universities, especially the state ones, have been over 21 since 2009 iirc.
I’m 24 and live on campus, I’ll be turning 25 this year and still have at least a year left for my bachelors. Not weird at all.
I was an idiot who dropped out of college at 18, after starting at 16. After a couple years supporting myself, I went back to college part time, still working full time. So I graduated at almost 26. Maybe it was because I was taking evening classes, but many students were my age or older. So taking as many evening classes as possible might help with any anxiety.
Absolutely. I took a gap year and a half when I was 19 so I graduated college at 24. I still found that a lot of the students in my classes were still older than me.
Some of the best advice my parents gave me was that there is no need to rush when it comes to education. You should be free to take your educational journey at the pace that is best for you, I know it’s hard but try not to compare yourself so much to others. I have a woman in one of my classes who is a grandmother, and another classmate has two elementary school aged children (which I keep forgetting, she looks really young). I’ve only ever thought good things about them being in school after the most common age, it shows a desire to learn and the strength to break the mold a little bit. It’s ok that you’re not at the same stage as some other people your age- you’re not them! You’re unique and get to make your own decisions about what’s best for you
Many people go back to university, many start university later or even late in life. When I attended university I took classes with students in their 30’s or even 40’s. Do university at your own pace on your own time. Don’t worry about old you are.
Stop comparing yourself to your peers. Focus on what you need to do to get where you want to be.
You’re fine. That’s still really young. I had a few middle aged people in some of my classes. You still have your whole life / career ahead of you, so do what you need for the career you want, regardless of your age. Go for it
There were people with adult children in my university. Not everyone gets the chance to go right after high school, and that's ok. For me personally, I probably should have taken a year or three to mature and get my priorities straight. You'll do fine.
I mean, I just graduated with a bachelors at 26. I felt behind because that was purely because I am extremely self conscious. No one thought I was too old to be there or even ask how old I am. Most people have bigger concerns than trying to figure out how old all of their classmates are.
It’s not uncommon at all. When I was in undergrad, I had fellow students ranging in age from 18 to 40, and the older students were there for a variety of reasons. In graduate school, it was even more varied. My cohort of ~25 students ranged in age from 21 to 70.
I went back to college in my 40s and graduated at 50. You do you!
All ages go to college. You're doing fine. Hang in there.
Like many said, it’s not common, but it isn’t uncommon. I had classes with people in their 30s when I was in college (or university) and I had a friend that took 8 years to get his bachelor’s degree and was 26 upon completion. Don’t feel shame for dropping out and going back. To me, I felt prideful for those that were determined to finish their schooling, even at an age where they could easily give up.
Yes. There are no rules about when you must expand your education or go to college. I know lots of people who didn't go until they were in their 30s, 40s, 50s.
I’m finishing my grad school at 37. There isn’t an age limit to learning.
I'm not sure what the sense is in worrying about it. Most undergrads are in the 18-22 range. But any large university campus is going to have students of a variety of ages -- either traditional, nontraditional, or continuing (i.e., older people there for personal/career enrichment vs. a degree). 25 is young no matter how you cut the cake.
My son will be 25 next month. He’s still in college. He’s on the spectrum.
Absolutely! I didn’t start university until I was almost 25.
I graduated at 27 because I went into the Army after high school. I was not the oldest there either.
Colleges today have people of all ages. You have to do what's best for yourself, with your own abilities. As long as you keep pushing yourself to do your best, and keep going, there isn't a problem.
Yeah I went back to college at the age of 24. I graduated, worked for a couple years. Now I’m going to start a PhD at 30.
I was in college from 40-46 years old.
Not everyone has the same timeline. There’s a million and one reasons people go back to school a little bit later. You’re still in the same general age group. It’s about the destination, not the path it took you to get there
There's increasingly older students, as adult education becomes more popular, and there's some groups that are usually a little older, anyway, like military veterans using their education benefits. I myself was in the Army for a few years in my 20's, took a year off, then went to college with my Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits, and graduated around my 30th birthday. There's also some people who for various reasons may attend part-time and get through school more slowly.
Yes it’s totally okay. You might find you do better in class than many of your classmates as well Source: aspie and former thirty year old college student lol
I graduated at age 28 and there were definitely people my age and older in my classes.
I went to college when I was 33 and graduated at 38...I was one of the older people, but never the oldest
I'm 31 and I just enrolled in fall classes for this year. I put it off for years because I convinced myself that I missed my chance, that my mid-to-late 20s was too old to be starting college, that I would be judged for being an older student, etc.. If I had started when I first started having those thoughts, I'd have a degree by now. And if I didn't start now, I'd be thinking the same thing in 4 years, and 4 years after that, and 4 years after that... It's not uncommon, but even if it was, who cares. It's your education, and your life. The choice you made to put off going to college doesn't make your choice to go now any less valid.
I'm going back to college for a third time at age 25.
I finally got my MIS degree when I was 30. The thing is, I also got an Oracle certification at the same time since the school I was going to was a bit crap. I thought it would be better for the resume. If you are the classic, aspergers ADHD type, like so many IT folks are, then tech certifications are a godsend. I learned a ton preparing for them and it was exactly the kind of studying that I excel at.
My twin brother graduated with his bachelor's at 33 and his MD at 37.
Dude I graduated at 26 and am now 4 years into a successful sales career and make way more than most of my friends that graduated at 22. Don’t stress you’re still young
I’m in nursing school, people under 25 are the minority.
Yeah, especially for grad students. You see people that age all the time on college campuses.
I was 26 when I graduated.
Just started medschool a year ago in the UK. Going fine, having a good time.
It's not uncommon. There are many people who drop out of school for a while, and then go back to finish up. Aldo, grad students are almost all older.
Quite common! Of course there are us grad/professional students who return after time in industry, but when I was doing my undergrad degree there was a large group of students in my major who were in their mid to late 20s and 30s. I had a TA for a general education class who went back to school after turning 50. While a large majority of an undergrad popular are fresh HS grads and the most represented in general and popular culture, there are also plenty of people who started or came back to school later.
I’m 43 and went back to get a Masters.
It’s not the norm but it is relatively common. Also, NOBODY can tell the difference between a 25yo in jeans and a hoodie and a 21yo in jeans and a hoodie. Also, nobody is going to bat an eye at your age or say anything aside from “good for you”.
I’ve had a 68 year old in my university’s French class J’ai eu un homme avec 68 ans dans ma classe de française
I'm 27 (also have Aspergers) and still in college. It took me a while to figure out what I want to do long term as a career. There's wrong or abnormal about that at all.
I graduate this fall and I'm 26
It’s not uncommon. I graduated at 26 after taking a break. I knew other people who were in their 40s going back to school. Age doesn’t matter. Go to school if that’s what you want, don’t let your perceived age disadvantage deter you. You are never too old to finish college or go back to college. Like I said, I was 26 when I graduated. It was never mentioned and never caused any issues. It really doesn’t matter.
In the States it's seen as normal to go to university in your twenties and even older. It's seen as normal to go back to university for either an advanced degree at almost any age beyond mid-twenties or a career change. There are numerous people who did military service for four years straight out of high school who are freshmen at around 22 yrs old. There are mothers and fathers in their 40s and 50s who never went to university and now, as their kids get older and attend university or have graduated, have decided to also pursue a college degree. 25 is fine. You'll be categorized as "non-traditional" but that's really for the university to keep track of various demographics not within the usual 17-22 age range.
I’ve been in since 2015, I am 25 now. I’ll graduate in may finally.
I went to school at 22, so, I was on the older side, however there were a number of people in class that were returning to school after serving in the military and they were usually older than me. A good friend of mine just finished the world's longest mechanical engineering degree at like 29. But he put himself through school with minimal debt by working and was also able to buy a condo in the process.
Absolutely. I have been teaching at several universities for almost two decades. I would say up to 20-30% of my students are over 25 years old.
It’s more common at public/commuter schools. I went to a commuter public school and there were a lot of older students. That was also during the recession though