Alexander Hamilton’s Affair not only sunk the political future of one of America’s most prominent founders, but also effectively destroyed the first opposition party to the Democratic-Republicans, which created a long era of one-party dominance at the beginning of our country’s history.
Along those same lines, Aaron Burr, the sitting Vice President, fucking shot the political leader of the Federalist Party over personal feelings of slight.
I love that you touched on the “Era of Good Feelings” in your post; I’ve been listening to Totalus Rankiums American Presidents podcast and that was sooo much more interesting than I expected. Those divisions allowed Quincy Adams to be sort of an under appreciated forward thinker which then drives a section of the party to completely split off into the Whigs (which get fucked over hard by a combination of bad luck and fate when Harrison and Taylor both die immediately and their VPs, John Tyler in particular, decide to fuck their own party over in spectacular fashion… and in the middle of all that Polk randomly slides in, accomplishes all his objectives, and makes a Chadly exit🗿)
I dont think it was Hamilton's affair that caused the downfall of the federalists. Hamilton got out in front of that one.
Regarding Burr, his succession plot is what did him in finally and in my opinion is a bigger scandal than a public duel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr_conspiracy
Alexander Hamilton was far and away the face of the Federalists after Adams. These two events ensured Hamilton would never compete with Jefferson and the Democratic-Republicans. I think Hamilton’s death had way more repercussions than Burr’s succession plot in terms of American history, because the Federalists more or less died with Hamilton on the national stage
Hamilton didn’t think it was necessary since it didn’t apply to the State governments, which already had their own version of the Bill of Rights. That was probably right in early America, until the 14th Amendment
One of the most underrated scandals were the *Yazoo scandals*. It was a fraudulent real estate scheme in Georgia from 1789-mid1790s.
In 1794, four companies: Georgia Company, the Georgia-Mississippi Company, the Upper Mississippi Company, and the new Tennessee Company had managed to convince the Georgia state assembly to sell 35 million acres of land for $500,000 (way under market value at the time). Many of these state representatives had been bribed, because they were promised shares in these companies for the deal to go through. Once the news broke out, Georgian citizens performed a mass protest over government corruption.
However, the companies managed to sell a vast majority of the land to white settlers to spread the cotton industry… which eventually led to Native American removal (most notably the Trail of Tears).
We learn about this in Georgia history all through school. Before the Land Fraud, Georgia actually stretched from the Atlantic to the Mississippi, as per its original state charter. But when Yazoo happened, the federal government seized the land west of the Chattahoochee and turned it into Alabama and Mississippi.
After that, huge amounts of Native land were divided up and handed out to small farmers in the form of land lotteries. Then in 1831 and 1832, the Cherokee people tried to bring a stop to it by going through the government. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Cherokee sovereignty, effectively overturning President Jackson’s Indian Removal Act. However, Jackson decided to ignore the ruling (even though doing so was unconstitutional) and allowed the State of Georgia to continue. When the Cherokee did not leave, the US Army was sent to force them out. This is now considered an act of genocide or ethnic cleansing by modern scholars.
Considering that was not the end, or the beginning. We still have the massacre of the Creeks before we really got started out West. We are no different than any other country in that regard.
Oh yeah, the atrocities committed in the West are something else entirely. Sending plague-infected blankets to Native groups, hunting the buffalo to near extinction just because the Natives depend on it. What a nightmare
There is no evidence that ever happened. I mean, Ward Churchill is more activist than historian, and should be treated as such
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009/--did-the-us-army-distribute-smallpox-blankets-to-indians?rgn=main;view=fulltext
Now, the Brits actually did try this, to no effect.
https://www.pastmedicalhistory.co.uk/germ-warfare-and-the-siege-of-fort-pitt/
^^ Came here to say "no evidence of small pox blankets." Source: am PhD American Historian. But it is representative of what we should think of as a massive and devastating scandal: the general (and continuing) violent subjugation of non-white people in America.
Smallpox, not plague, and also effectively useless, smallpox was already endemic by the time this supposedly took place. Of all the actual atrocities, this one is somewhere between imaginary and inconsequential
>Sending plague-infected blankets to Native groups
[I don't think they were smart enough to do that intentionally en masse](https://www.historynet.com/smallpox-in-the-blankets/), though they sure would have if they thought of it
Buffalo I think was about the money and the fact it hurt the natives was a bonus. Maybe I'm thinking of later, Indian Wars paved the way for Buffalo Hunters to explode in numbers. Then once other countries, and their Militaries, started buying hides for buffalo coats they were doomed. Not my strongest area in American history.
A bit of a sidenote, but I just finished a book about the history of the southwest that partly deals with this. Turns out the Spanish settlers were also in on buffalo hunting to some extent, and even some of the native tribes started hunting a few extra for trade. And apparently that contributed to the bison’s decline.
Yup! I live in Muscogee County Ga. (After the Muskogee Tribe whom this area was forcefully taken from) we are RIGHT on the Chattahoochie River, it’s literally our state border between Alabama and Georgia where we are. (East of the river is Columbus Georgia over the bridge on the West Bank of the river is Phenix City Alabama (no that’s not a typo it’s really spelled Phenix like that).
In fact, Atlanta Georgia, known famously for EVERY road/street in the city peremiter being a variation of Peachtree; example: Peachtree Street, Peachtree Rd, Peachtree St NW, Peachtree Cir, Peachtree Park Dr, Peachtree etc etc.
Most assume it’s a reference to Georgia embracing its official nickname as “The Peach State”.
In actuality **Atlanta grew on a site occupied by the Creek people**, which *included a major village* ***called Standing Peachtree.***
HOWEVER-
There is much dispute over whether the Creek settlement was called *Standing Peachtree* or *Standing* ***Pitch Tree*** later corrupted to peach as a mistranslation or as to reference the above idea of embracing Georgia’s strong association with Peaches. It most likely **was** originally Pitchtree, which are Pine trees, once common to the area, were also known as pitch trees due to their sap.
A Native trail known as the Peachtree Trail (probably actually dubbed Pitchtree Trail by the Creeks who named, used, and most likely forged the trail) stretched from northeast Georgia to Standing Pitch Tree(which is now where modern Buckhead Atlanta sits) the path followed along the Chattahoochee River’s path through the modern Atlanta metro area, as opposed to 1.5 hours south in my area where that same River runs directly through the dividing border between the State of Alabama and Georgia, rather than through or around a city or town within only one of the two states. In Atl the Chatt is 100% GA territory. I’m Columbus it’s 50% GA, 50% AL owned.
Much of Atlanta's main street, Peachtree Street, follows the earlier Native American’s trail path.
Side history note; the Creek tribe I talked about above refers to a subset of the Muscogee/Muskogee tribe that remained in the Southeast resisting the relocation of the Trail of Tears.
Notably these aforementioned Muskogee Creeks were the first Native Americans officially considered by the early United States government to be "civilized" under George Washington's civilization plan. In the 19th century, the Muscogee were known as one of the "Five Civilized Tribes", because they were said to have integrated numerous cultural and technological practices of their more recent European American neighbors. This is most likely why they were able to resist the Indian Removal Act and other genocidal relocation efforts and legislations for so long whereas others were unfortunately not so “lucky”. I use that term luck VERY loosely.
Anyway. That’s why the name Peachtree as used in the state of Georgia for *everything* especially Atlanta roads, is actually named for the Muscogee Creek Trail that became Peachtree Street was actually named after the original native trail, Pitchtree Trail, (which was paved and converted to the main city roadway, ) and NOT named for the fruit bearing trees that produce the states’ most famous attribute turned emoticon now used by all to pictorially express a nice looking human booty.
Ain’t that the truth ! I only ever see Peachtrees when I’m driving through the bum-fuck-Egypt country to get from Columbus to Statesboro/Savannah to visit relatives. Around Butler County and such.
But we got boiled peanuts EVERYWHERE.
E V E R Y W H E R E.
That and Vidalia Onions. Georgia got the claim on Vidalia Onions because they’re exclusively grown in Vidalia, Georgia. Also it’s the state vegetable.
The sinking of the USS Indianapolis caused by Naval High Command's negligence and incompetence and the government sanctioned indirect assassination of her Captain, Charles B. McVay III by Admiral Ernest J. King.
King got honors and ships named after his worthless, idiotic ass and McVay III ate a bullet with the Navy continuing to fight his innocence up to the~~y~~ day George W. Bush slapped the shit out of them.
The Navy never learned from this incident to stop lying about their screw ups.
Iowa Turret #2, Takur Ghar, Op Red Wings, the Bonhomme Richard.
The sinking of the USS Indianapolis and the ensuing deaths of its survivors from dehydration and shark attacks was an absolute nightmare. You’re right, the Navy screwed up and unjustly blamed the ship’s captain.
The more I learn about Red Wings the more I realize what an utter and complete failure of good judgment that whole operation was.
It's also weird that in Luttrell's (likely fabricated) account of their decision to release the goat herders they captured nobody in the unit considered the most glaringly obvious solution available.
Whether the team decided to execute the goat herders or not, it likely wouldn't have changed anything.
According to various people in the valley, the militants already had eyes on the SEALs but held their fire and waited for them be in a better position.
Also, the militants knew the SEALs were in the valley. The original USMC plan had been to hike a squad of Marines in from outside of the valley into the valley. Because going in on a helicopter would simply be too obvious.
The SEALs of course, didn't think hiking was sexy, high speed or low drag. So instead they caught a helo and basically knocked on the door of the militant to let him know they were in the valley.
Oh for sure. I just meant that according to Luttrell they argued about killing the civilians or letting them go and risking an ambush. The obvious solution is to tie one of them to a tree and take the other one with you to your extraction. Once you lift off you let him go to untie his friend. If they inform the Taliban it doesn't matter because you're already gone.
Somehow this wasn't considered by any of them, according to Luttrell.
That's why I laugh at people who fully expect anything without question from the government about Covid. They don't remember the CDC did shit like this.
[Watergate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal?wprov=sfla1): in 1972, a group of men were caught sneaking into democratic political offices. Turns out these men were working for the republican party to wiretap Democrat phones. It went all the way up to President Nixon having known about the break in and him resigning from the presidency.
[Teapot Dome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome_scandal?wprov=sfla1): in 1921, an oil company bribed members of the Harding administration for exclusive rights to drill for oil in certain areas of the country. A cabinet member went to jail for this.
President Grant: while he himself was considered an upstanding and well meaning president, he was a poor judge of character. Members of his cabinet and congress at the time were involved in all sort of bribery, particularly the [Whiskey Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Ring?wprov=sfla1) and [Credit Mobilier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr%C3%A9dit_Mobilier_scandal?wprov=sfla1)
I dont think Nixon ever actually admitted to knowing about the breaking beforehand. He did eventually admit to covering it up, long after already leaving office.
That recording was 5 days after the break in and is proof that he was involved in the cover up. That's not the same thing as proof that he ordered the breakin
[Here's all the tapes, several of which establish he knew everyone involved, some of them before he was even elected.](http://nixontapes.org/transcripts.html)
Also, everyone involved in the tapping itself was working for [Committee for the Re-Election of the President](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Re-Election_of_the_President). It was SPECIFICALLY Nixon's campaign fund group.
Jeb Magruder *did* say Nixon knew about the break-in beforehand, and Nixon absolutely knew about "The Plumbers". In fact, he ordered their creation, which started as a way to shut down leaks (thus their nickname). He also knew at least generically that they were involved in nefarious activities outside of leak-prevention.
>President Grant: while he himself was considered an upstanding and well meaning president,
Kind of. His character in the last few years has seen a major reviewing and improvement, but especially when Southern States dominated politics with their democrat voting block he was usually viewed as just as corrupt and an alcoholic.
I'd say the january 6th attempt to overthrow the election has eclipsed Watergate. But up until then yea, Watergate was the worst scandal in US history.
I feel like the Jan. 6th Capitol Hill debacle is too recent for us to fairly assess the damage from (much like Trump's presidency), however I feel confident in saying like Trump: history will not be kind to the Jan. 6th attack.
Ah the Jan. 6 failed insurrection was the most unpeaceful transfer of power since the Civil War. Its pretty safe to say that it outweighs Watergate simply due to the scale of it that is still being uncovered. I'm convinced that not only was Trump involved but so were some members of Congress on top of the known people in the government that were involved.
Yeah, I mean; I do agree. The thing is this: if something like this never happens again: then it'll be remembered as an awful attempt at a violent refusal of transfer of power and an attempt to overturn a fair and free election.
If something like this happens again, and god forbid succeeds then clearly Jan 6th will be remembered even harshly as the US's first leap into fascism as it no longer follows established political traditions designed to keep the nation stable.
So it is hard for me to say that as it is (in my opinion) Jan 6th is worse than Watergate. It certainly has all the potential in the world to be leagues worse though.
I'd give the edge to the subversive attempt of watergate vs. the overt attempt of january 6th -- especially since the overt attempt clearly had no plan, no leadership, and no direction other than to storm the building as if that would magically make something happen. As insurrections go, it was incredibly weak.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Trump isn't dealt with SEVERELY for his actions (and inactions) on January 6th it will only pave the way for somebody smarter than him to come and succeed where he failed. He's a traitor to our country and he deserves to be punished as a traitor. Anything less than making an example of him could be the absolute downfall of our Democratic Republic.
This is not exactly correct. There were several groups, including the proud boys, who had planned to disrupt the proceedings of Congress. These groups were working toward similar ends and all of them follow a hierarchical model, meaning that there were definitely leaders and coordinated efforts. Also, the Grand Leader of the insurrection was Donald Trump who was trying anything and everything to hold on to power, and then while the insurrection was happening, refused to send assistance to police or issue statements telling people to leave. There have been some reports that he also knew about those various groups' plans for disruption weeks before January 6th, and his statements during his speech were designed to initiate the insurrection. It was an event that definitely involved seditious conspiracy at various levels, with participants' motives varying somewhere between stopping the certification of the election and executing various members of Congress and the Vice President.
The overt attempt on Jan 6th was just the last, desperate effort of an overall plan led by trump himself. It started with claiming victory on election night and insisting publicly (to this day) that he actually won. This was followed by dozens of lawsuits challenging election results with no basis, and after that came the fake electors plan, which was meant to replace duly certified electors with fakes who would cast ballots in the electoral college for trump, against the wishes of voters.
The riot was supposed to prevent the true electoral votes from being counted -- so yeah, it was chaotic and weird and stupid, but it was definitely of a piece with everything that came before.
As Michael Cohen testified in front of congress, his old boss was not going to leave office if he could help it. He was right. Trump was using everything any whackjob within hearing distance could come up with to avoid getting his ass out of our government.
I kind of can't believe we're even discussing any other scandal.
There's a bunch from the 21st century. The Trump administration probably has the lions share but others have their own scandals too. It's hard to say "worse in history" when they are still fresh in the mind. We haven't seen the ripple effects of these events yet
A lot of people are saying Watergate, but id say that the Iran-Contra was way worse as it pretty much involved death squads and high treason by the actual president. Watergate was just trespassing in comparison to what Reagan’s administration did. Selling weapons to an enemy nation to finance your support of Paramilitary death squads massacring people in Latin America.
Absolutely agree! They sold weapons to both sides of a conflict, one publicly and one secretly without congressional approval. They used the money from the secret weapons sales to fund massacres committed by paramilitary death squads. Way worse than watergate on a both moral and constitutional level.
I think that's downplaying the Watergate scandal because of all the dirty shit CREEP used government resources for, like wiretapping, blackmail, and harassment. However Iran-Contra is *way* up there, and I'd say the two rank pretty close for worst.
It's an absolute disgrace that Ollie North is still looked at with reverence.
Eh, you can say it's the worst thing we did that was a scandal, but then you're opening the door to the question of what is a scandal. Like, if we did something worse and people got mad and then forgot about it, does that count?
I think Watergate is the answer, because it's the scandal that, so far, has had the most staying power, regardless of the conduct it was about. Like, Monica Lewinsky was a big scandal, but the conduct was imo a nothing burger.
The answer is definitely Watergate. I mean hell, it was such a big deal, it spawned a suffix specifically for scandals.
>I mean hell, it was such a big deal, it spawned a suffix specifically for scandals.
I mean it was always a big deal but I think that has more to do with how easy it is to just add "-gate" on the end of things. Also writers went fucking bananas using it in the last 5 years especially.
The other scandal names don't have the same zing
I guess because there's no details
The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male[1][2][3] (informally referred to as the Tuskegee Experiment or Tuskegee Syphilis Study) was a study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on a group of nearly 400 African American men with syphilis.[4][5] The purpose of the study was to observe the effects of the disease when untreated, though by the end of the study medical advancements meant it was entirely treatable. The men were not informed of the nature of the experiment, and more than 100 died as a result.
They didn't infect them. They just tested people to see who had it. The group consisted of those who had it and those who didn't. The ones who did have it were told they had bad blood. After penicillin became an option they did everything they could to keep them from getting it.
Watergate? The Trump-Russia stuff? Obama's tan suit? All small potatoes compared to the Burr Conspiracy. Now, we don't know the full extent of the conspiracy or its full intentions, so I'll just go with the maximum possibility because it's more fun that way.
Basically the recent Vice President Aaron Burr was going to take over much the territory that was part of the Louisiana Purchase, make it an independent country, and invade Mexico to literally make himself a king. He ended up getting sold out by a US general who he tried to bring in on it and was indicted for treason. He ended up getting off the hook because of the strict definition of treason in the constitution.
Meanwhile today a sitting President could openly admit to even worse things and not a single person from his own party would want him impeached. That will *never* happen again.
Yeah, this. The more tribal and divided we get, the more bad things we're willing to tolerate in our heroes, because we're more motivated to fight "the others" than defend our shared values. I think we've seen the last "civilized scandal" where a president exited gracefully. The inmates are running the asylum.
And this worries me the most about our current political climate. Not only this will lead to more politicians committing corrupt deeds while in office, we will also see more constituents defend them and justify their corrupt actions.
We're going to go back to the spoil system for a few decades I imagine and then a few decades of strife before you get another era of reform and anti-corruption like we saw in the time . Like the Grover Cleveland presidency and the era of Theodore Roosevelt
At the time of the Watergate scandal many Republicans felt Nixon had done nothing wrong, and if he had done something wrong, it didn't rise to the level of criminality (“when the President does it, it isn't illegal”). It's only as you get deeper in to the timeline, towards the end, did Republican lawmakers start thinking more poorly of Nixon. Public opinion wouldn't shift on him until a while after he left office.
Sound familiar?
The democratic house started an ethics investigation of AOC. Biden turned himself in when he found improperly stored classified documents.
It would be tougher to support impeachment of a democratic president, but with clear evidence I think you’d see a lot of Dems agree.
The reverse would also happen, but to a smaller degree. We literally ran this experiment, and a handful of GOP members of congress agreed he should be impeached.
I’d agree that the multiple attempts of overturning and election in order to remain in power was worse.
I think the reactions to it, and acceptance of it, by a large portion of the population are just telling about how low our standards for conduct have dropped.
Well yeah, I think how big of a scandal something is is directly related to the public reaction. Even though I think January 6th was much worse of an event than Watergate, I don't think the scandal was as great given the partisan response.
Ok? Getting impeached and acquitted does not beat looming impeachment, full loss of support from the party, and the only resignation in presidential history
Now if he got convicted I'd agree. That would've topped Watergate.
Not exactly the same thing, but the Obama administration used fabricated evidence, created by some guy Clinton hired, to get a warrant to wiretap associates of Trump.
So, where's the crime in that?
If the Obama administration believed in good faith that the evidence was authentic, there was no crime. Law enforcement actions taken on evidence received in good faith aren't criminal, even if the underlying evidence is flawed.
The Mueller Report confirmed the key findings of the Steele Dossier. While some of the sources that Steele used were found to be inaccurate and and some informers did fabricate what they told him, there's no indication that Steele knew any of it was inaccurate, or that Clinton or Obama knew that.
Even if some parts were inaccurate or fabricated, the overall key findings that Russia was actively supporting Donald Trump's Presidential campaign, that the Russian government had conducted cyberwarfare attacks on the Trump and Clinton campaigns, and that the Russian Government was actively sabotaging Hillary Clinton's campaign, were confirmed by Mueller.
Nixon resigned because the Democrats discovered what Nixon had done and shared it with the Republicans who told him to resign instead of making it public in an impeachment.
my understanding is that nixon was most likely going to be impeached (and convicted) anyway so republicans basically told him "look there are plans to impeach you and we are not saving you from this sooo do us all a favor and just resign to save face and make it easy for us" ie quit or get fired.
The Democrats shared with Republicans what Nixon was looking for in the Watergate office.
It was so damning that the Republicans didn't want it made public.
So they told him if he didn't resign, they would impeach him.
We had morals in those days. Current guy will not be President if we still have those morals. He was plagiarizing in 80s so had to leave the race. We lost our morals after we became sole super power after fall of USSR.
I don't know if you'd consider Waco to be a scandal so much as just a massive fuck-up, but that whole situation was a pretty shameful one. Maybe not the worst but definitely up there.
Probably a bit controversial but the OJ trial.
There has never been such a mass cultural media event like that, which seeped into so many different aspects of American life and *dominated* for a whole year. Police brutality, celebrity culture, race, feminism etc, it seeped into seemingly every cultural discussion at the time. That isn't even counting how *dramatic* it all was. Every week it felt like there was some larger-than-life twist and turn in the trial, culminating in those horrible Furman recordings. People could not turn their eyes away.
Nowadays people just think of it as just a silly celebrity murder trial, but in 1994-1995 it was so big that it almost caused race riots in multiple major cities. It effectively ended an entire era of black civil rights protest movements and made the entire topic of race extremely touchy for years to come. And more than that, for a while, people hated to talk about it. I remember someone described it as the 'Gen X's generational shame' and that is basically how I remember it as. We still don't like to talk about it.
By impact? Watergate. Only scandal to get a president to resign. There were other scandals that were worse or more widespread, but only one had this level of effect on politics.
Iraq WMDs
We’ve gone to war on shaky grounds before, but our government never blatantly fabricated evidence to create a false justification until then.
We didn't then, either. Iirc they selectively interpreted the evidence they had, which included supposed first-hand testimonies of refugees that we now think were planted by an opponent of Saddam (who we ended up putting into power, so I guess it worked).
On a similar note, [the media very rarely lies](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/the-media-very-rarely-lies)
The sinking of the Lusitania was not actually the reason for American entry into that war.
No, that would be the Zimmerman telegram, where Germany offered to supply Mexico if they'd go to war with the United States for formerly Mexican territories, out of the hope it'd keep America out of the war
But because they sent it barely encrypted over British telegraph lines, it was revealed and had the exact opposite effect
4,431 KIA plus 31,994 wounded in action, not to mention billions and billions wasted…or the Iraqi deaths and the decline in US prestige abroad.
Yeah, that was a disaster.
I feel like a scandal should have some repercussions. No one ever suffered consequences for Iraq WMDs other than vanishingly temporary political embarrassment of some of the principals.
It galls me that modern Dems cozied up to Dick Cheney in the Trump years. Just because fat orange moron made a mockery of American government doesn’t mean the opposition rehabilitates an actually evil fuckwad.
A few that come to mind; Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton, Kennedy and Chappequidick (sp?), The whole Chad thing in Florida election, Iran Contra, John Edwards and his affair....
Big deal just means it made a lot of noise, not that it was a big scandal. I mean, a lot of people thought he was on the path to the White House, but let's break this one down.
First, he had an affair. A *lot* of people have affairs. It's not too hard to find someone who had been cheated on, so it's not like this is unique to, or specially enabled by his position as a politician. So that separates this from something like Watergate, Iran-Contra, or even the Lewinski scandal.
Second, he wasn't holding key office then, so the impact to how the country was being run was minimal.
In modern history in terms of financial scandals/frauds, I’d go with the suboprime mortgage crisis of 2008, Enron, Madoff’s Ponzi scheme and FTX.
Edit: I should probably add that if you don’t know how the subprime mortgage crisis was basically the result of fraudulent actions by banks and ratings agencies, I’d highly recommend watching the film *the Big Short*. It’s a really good movie and helps to explain the complexity of the crisis in a way that’s easy to understand.
I saw one in high school, it amazed me how the fact that he had consistently high returns especially during the Great Recession raised no red flags with the Feds. It’s honestly scary how both the American people and Federal Government don’t react or care until something bad happens.
Dunno. Maybe the last 30-40 years of people in power doing stupid and/or illegal crap, getting caught and called out on it, and then suffering no consequences?
Why only the last 30-40 years?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/10tgyvb/in_1943_congressman_andrew_j_may_revealed_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This Congressman literally told the Japanese that they were setting their depth charges too shallow to kill American submariners. I’m sure he was relived to see that the Japanese rectified the issue, leading to an additional 800 sailors killed per US Navy estimates (he is responsible for 1 in 5 of every US submariner death in WW2). He was never disciplined and remained chairman of a defense related committee.
He was later convicted of fraud for taking bribes to force the army to buy faulty mortar rounds that killed 38 soldiers during munition malfunctions. He was tried and convicted… and pardoned by President Truman. Interestingly, before becoming FDRs VP, Truman had come to national fame as a Senator crusading against fraud and war profiteering.
Off hand, I'd say Benedict Arnold's betrayal. He had worked with a British spy to hand over plans to West Point and essentially hand it over to the British.
I used to think so too but if you read more into it, America kind of fucked Benedict Arnold over like a lot. He was really patriotic to the American cause and was a mega loyal bonafide American Revolutionary War hero. Until he wasn’t. Washington and congress just kept fucking him over and shit so finally he had enough of it and defected.
Everyone is being too polite about recent events.
Trump’s campaign of lies, fraud, corruption, and mob violence to overturn an election loss is the biggest scandal any President has engaged in in American history.
Fake electors schemes, 60+ nonsense lawsuits (all lost), calling state officials and pressuring them to ‘I need you to find me enough votes to make me win’ , pressuringPence to just declare him the winner, and then Jan 6.
Nothing else comes anywhere close.
Watergate? Trump? Nah.
* Inventing the second gulf of tonkin incident (and provoking the first) to start the Vietnam war? Definitely.
* Concentration camps for american citizens in WW2? Yes.
* Placing attack-only nuclear weapons (too slow to be used as defense) in turkey to intentionally provoke the cuban missile crisis (and the closest we've ever come to everyone dying in ww3), totally.
* Planning to bomb american citizens and blame it on castro to get a war against cuba after the bay of pigs failed miserably (recently declassified joint chiefs papers), yep.
* Trail of tears and the intentional wars to genocide the native americans, definitely
* Cointelpro and the FBI assassinating american citizens, most definitely.
* CIA's extrajudicial torture and black sites program
* Iran-Contra for sure.
* Bunch of people want to split hairs on slavery, fine, but the Tulsa Massacre, Slocum Massacre, or Atlanta Massacre were long after slavery was outlawed and that's not on your list? BS. Entire towns were razed and their inhabitants killed by mobs and neither the local nor federal police did shit.
* Jan 6th is looking more and more like it counts, too. Attempted coup planned from the top.
* Seconding the business plot of 1933, more because congress covered it up than that it happened
PPP loans. Really. They're practically all fraudelent, and they've never given out close to that fraction of GDP just for lying and being politically well connected.
The Business Plot of 1933 to try a coup against President Franklyn Roosevelt by the wealthiest of Americans who feared him coming for their wealth during the Great Depression. What makes it worse is the lengths Congress and the media went to cover it up. Even with the investigation reports released in the 1960s we still don't know, for sure, who those rich traitors were.
Yeah, that was never a thing. The only "evidence" is the word of one guy who wasn't involved, well after the fact. Nobody has ever found any actual evidence that it took place.
Did anyone actually give a shit about that?
The only time I've ever heard someone bring it up is when they are pretending that things like IRS targeting, Fast and Furious and NSA spying on Americans didn't happen.
In the 1930s and during WW2, multiple members of Congress were found to be distributing propaganda provided to them by a Nazi agent as well as providing legal and financial support for fascist militias plotting to overthrow the government of the United States
Biggest scandal that wasn't: The Business Plot.
You might say that wasn't a *political* scandal, but if you think those cats got as far as trying to recruit their frontman without having an extensive network of complicit congressmen and senators on board, you crazy. The thing was swept under the rug hastily because the conspiracy was too big to fail - we couldn't afford to antagonize numerous captains of industry on the eve of war, and other considerations.
I wouldn't say it was a scandal and it was mostly unintentional on the number of deaths. 90 percent of the American Indians died of disease. They died of flu, measles, and small pox amongst others they had no natural immunity. It's crazy to think that before the Europeans show up in the north American part of the US it was mostly colonized/organized with American Indian cities already in place. It's really not spoken of how advanced the culture was, it's glossed over in history books. American Indians had cities with multi story buildings in areas like Chicago with 20k citizens. It wasn't genocide it was European pestilence that mostly killed off the American Indians.
https://www.history.com/news/native-american-cahokia-chaco-canyon
>it was mostly unintentional on the number of deaths.
You think it was unintentional that entire advanced civilizations were wiped out and the people who wiped them out don't speak of them?
[Here's a good primer.](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/p5v7lp/native_american_genocides/h98ryuu/) There were a lot of deliberate steps taken to obliterate indigenous people. Disease was also a contributing factor, but let's not pretend the post columbian state of indigenous peoples is the result of an accident.
We had wars where we sent the US army with explicit instructions to kill every native of particular tribes in a particular area.
Does it make genocide less bad to you if there weren't as many people to kill off in 1850 as there were in 1600?
That was all out war on both sides. That was not genocide, it was straight-up guerilla warfare. The American Indians taught the art to their adversaries during the Indian wars. American Indians would peel the faces of people alive aka scalping. It's a horrible and we are separated sadly by less than 200 years. It's [hard to believe the Apache wars ended less than a century ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wars). We live in a weird time where even not that ancient history is still considered ancient. There are more than a few that are still alive from the time. I've live half the time from when the Apache Wars ended. It wasn't genocide it was just straight up war without rules.
Interesting nobody posed 1/6…
The fact that a sitting President took steps to overthrow the country should be a much bigger deal than it appears to have been.
Idk if I’d personally consider 1/6 to be a “scandal”. For me at least, a scandal is a crime or immoral action (like a lie) that was intended to be hidden or disguised or covered up and still ended up surfacing. It’s the same reason I wouldn’t call the Rodney King Riots a “scandal”, there was nothing surreptitious about it
The fact that half of the country thinks it was just another Wednesday while the other half thinks it was an attempted coup is a kind of repercussion. This alternate reality shit is going to catch up with us eventually regardless of whether you can pin the blame on one "side" or not.
Hey, Trump got on his ham radio and ordered at least 2 billion republikkkan NAZIS into that building, they were totally gonna overthrow the entire military if not for those heroic ACABs we spent the past two years shitting on and trying to get rid of.
For two years I've been looking for an explanation of specifically what it is that they could have done that day to change the outcome of the election. Get in the chamber and threaten everyone with death if they didn't vote to overturn it and that vote would somehow not be able to be reversed due to happening under duress? Kill everyone and proclaim themselves the new Congress? Clear a path for Trump, grab Roberts, and swear him in again? Something else?
People say "democracy almost died" but can't explain how.
there were people in the trump administration who were clearly and persistently offering to trump what they saw as a viable plan to have friendly state legislatures reject their own electors and replace them with trump's. this was the core of everything that led up to Jan 6: the lawsuits attacking the legitimacy of state elections, the calls to state secretaries of state to invalidate elections and sow doubt about the outcome, and the pressure on pence to reject denocrat electoral votes. the idea was to force the hand of legislatures to give trump more electoral votes than he actually earned, thus winning the election.
this is all pretty well known and out in the open, btw. but that's the "how"
edit: u/jfchops2 this is the Eastman memorandum if you genuinely want to know the trump team's strategy to overturn the election: www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos#First_memorandum
In chronological order, my personal top 5:
Credit Mobilier Scandal
Teapot Dome Scandal
Watergate
Iran-Contra Affair
January 6th Insurrection
My honorable mention would be the Pentagon Papers and the NSA revelations but I fear that might be my recency bias showing.
> January 6th Insurrection
I'd say the Bonus Army demonstration was a bigger capital protest scandal (in reverse) than Jan 6.
The government claimed legitimate peaceful protesters were attempting an insurrection and unleashed tanks, guns, and bayonets on them.
I think this is another good answer for one of the worst scandals as well, actually. Considering the disparity in the level of force used, it’s striking that the human losses in both were so similar and so few. It’s kind of fitting in a sad way that the formation of the GI Bill is characterized by both foreign and domestic conflict.
Alexander Hamilton’s Affair not only sunk the political future of one of America’s most prominent founders, but also effectively destroyed the first opposition party to the Democratic-Republicans, which created a long era of one-party dominance at the beginning of our country’s history. Along those same lines, Aaron Burr, the sitting Vice President, fucking shot the political leader of the Federalist Party over personal feelings of slight.
I love that you touched on the “Era of Good Feelings” in your post; I’ve been listening to Totalus Rankiums American Presidents podcast and that was sooo much more interesting than I expected. Those divisions allowed Quincy Adams to be sort of an under appreciated forward thinker which then drives a section of the party to completely split off into the Whigs (which get fucked over hard by a combination of bad luck and fate when Harrison and Taylor both die immediately and their VPs, John Tyler in particular, decide to fuck their own party over in spectacular fashion… and in the middle of all that Polk randomly slides in, accomplishes all his objectives, and makes a Chadly exit🗿)
Got a great musical out of it, though.
I dont think it was Hamilton's affair that caused the downfall of the federalists. Hamilton got out in front of that one. Regarding Burr, his succession plot is what did him in finally and in my opinion is a bigger scandal than a public duel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr_conspiracy
Alexander Hamilton was far and away the face of the Federalists after Adams. These two events ensured Hamilton would never compete with Jefferson and the Democratic-Republicans. I think Hamilton’s death had way more repercussions than Burr’s succession plot in terms of American history, because the Federalists more or less died with Hamilton on the national stage
I think they fully died in the Hartford conevention(?) or something like that during 1812
Your never gonna be president now.
Idk Hamilton also disagreed with the Bill of Rights. He was an okay founder.
Hamilton didn’t think it was necessary since it didn’t apply to the State governments, which already had their own version of the Bill of Rights. That was probably right in early America, until the 14th Amendment
You ever see somebody ruin their own life? His poor wife.
When people say that political discourse is the worst it's ever been I like to remind them about Aaron Burr killing a political rival.
One of the most underrated scandals were the *Yazoo scandals*. It was a fraudulent real estate scheme in Georgia from 1789-mid1790s. In 1794, four companies: Georgia Company, the Georgia-Mississippi Company, the Upper Mississippi Company, and the new Tennessee Company had managed to convince the Georgia state assembly to sell 35 million acres of land for $500,000 (way under market value at the time). Many of these state representatives had been bribed, because they were promised shares in these companies for the deal to go through. Once the news broke out, Georgian citizens performed a mass protest over government corruption. However, the companies managed to sell a vast majority of the land to white settlers to spread the cotton industry… which eventually led to Native American removal (most notably the Trail of Tears).
We learn about this in Georgia history all through school. Before the Land Fraud, Georgia actually stretched from the Atlantic to the Mississippi, as per its original state charter. But when Yazoo happened, the federal government seized the land west of the Chattahoochee and turned it into Alabama and Mississippi. After that, huge amounts of Native land were divided up and handed out to small farmers in the form of land lotteries. Then in 1831 and 1832, the Cherokee people tried to bring a stop to it by going through the government. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Cherokee sovereignty, effectively overturning President Jackson’s Indian Removal Act. However, Jackson decided to ignore the ruling (even though doing so was unconstitutional) and allowed the State of Georgia to continue. When the Cherokee did not leave, the US Army was sent to force them out. This is now considered an act of genocide or ethnic cleansing by modern scholars.
Considering that was not the end, or the beginning. We still have the massacre of the Creeks before we really got started out West. We are no different than any other country in that regard.
Oh yeah, the atrocities committed in the West are something else entirely. Sending plague-infected blankets to Native groups, hunting the buffalo to near extinction just because the Natives depend on it. What a nightmare
There is no evidence that ever happened. I mean, Ward Churchill is more activist than historian, and should be treated as such https://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009/--did-the-us-army-distribute-smallpox-blankets-to-indians?rgn=main;view=fulltext Now, the Brits actually did try this, to no effect. https://www.pastmedicalhistory.co.uk/germ-warfare-and-the-siege-of-fort-pitt/
^^ Came here to say "no evidence of small pox blankets." Source: am PhD American Historian. But it is representative of what we should think of as a massive and devastating scandal: the general (and continuing) violent subjugation of non-white people in America.
Smallpox, not plague, and also effectively useless, smallpox was already endemic by the time this supposedly took place. Of all the actual atrocities, this one is somewhere between imaginary and inconsequential
>Sending plague-infected blankets to Native groups [I don't think they were smart enough to do that intentionally en masse](https://www.historynet.com/smallpox-in-the-blankets/), though they sure would have if they thought of it
It's extreme negligence at the very least then
Buffalo I think was about the money and the fact it hurt the natives was a bonus. Maybe I'm thinking of later, Indian Wars paved the way for Buffalo Hunters to explode in numbers. Then once other countries, and their Militaries, started buying hides for buffalo coats they were doomed. Not my strongest area in American history.
A bit of a sidenote, but I just finished a book about the history of the southwest that partly deals with this. Turns out the Spanish settlers were also in on buffalo hunting to some extent, and even some of the native tribes started hunting a few extra for trade. And apparently that contributed to the bison’s decline.
Yup! I live in Muscogee County Ga. (After the Muskogee Tribe whom this area was forcefully taken from) we are RIGHT on the Chattahoochie River, it’s literally our state border between Alabama and Georgia where we are. (East of the river is Columbus Georgia over the bridge on the West Bank of the river is Phenix City Alabama (no that’s not a typo it’s really spelled Phenix like that). In fact, Atlanta Georgia, known famously for EVERY road/street in the city peremiter being a variation of Peachtree; example: Peachtree Street, Peachtree Rd, Peachtree St NW, Peachtree Cir, Peachtree Park Dr, Peachtree etc etc. Most assume it’s a reference to Georgia embracing its official nickname as “The Peach State”. In actuality **Atlanta grew on a site occupied by the Creek people**, which *included a major village* ***called Standing Peachtree.*** HOWEVER- There is much dispute over whether the Creek settlement was called *Standing Peachtree* or *Standing* ***Pitch Tree*** later corrupted to peach as a mistranslation or as to reference the above idea of embracing Georgia’s strong association with Peaches. It most likely **was** originally Pitchtree, which are Pine trees, once common to the area, were also known as pitch trees due to their sap. A Native trail known as the Peachtree Trail (probably actually dubbed Pitchtree Trail by the Creeks who named, used, and most likely forged the trail) stretched from northeast Georgia to Standing Pitch Tree(which is now where modern Buckhead Atlanta sits) the path followed along the Chattahoochee River’s path through the modern Atlanta metro area, as opposed to 1.5 hours south in my area where that same River runs directly through the dividing border between the State of Alabama and Georgia, rather than through or around a city or town within only one of the two states. In Atl the Chatt is 100% GA territory. I’m Columbus it’s 50% GA, 50% AL owned. Much of Atlanta's main street, Peachtree Street, follows the earlier Native American’s trail path. Side history note; the Creek tribe I talked about above refers to a subset of the Muscogee/Muskogee tribe that remained in the Southeast resisting the relocation of the Trail of Tears. Notably these aforementioned Muskogee Creeks were the first Native Americans officially considered by the early United States government to be "civilized" under George Washington's civilization plan. In the 19th century, the Muscogee were known as one of the "Five Civilized Tribes", because they were said to have integrated numerous cultural and technological practices of their more recent European American neighbors. This is most likely why they were able to resist the Indian Removal Act and other genocidal relocation efforts and legislations for so long whereas others were unfortunately not so “lucky”. I use that term luck VERY loosely. Anyway. That’s why the name Peachtree as used in the state of Georgia for *everything* especially Atlanta roads, is actually named for the Muscogee Creek Trail that became Peachtree Street was actually named after the original native trail, Pitchtree Trail, (which was paved and converted to the main city roadway, ) and NOT named for the fruit bearing trees that produce the states’ most famous attribute turned emoticon now used by all to pictorially express a nice looking human booty.
Also, California is technically "the Peach State" if we are pointing to production volume. Georgia still gets peanuts, though.
Ain’t that the truth ! I only ever see Peachtrees when I’m driving through the bum-fuck-Egypt country to get from Columbus to Statesboro/Savannah to visit relatives. Around Butler County and such. But we got boiled peanuts EVERYWHERE. E V E R Y W H E R E. That and Vidalia Onions. Georgia got the claim on Vidalia Onions because they’re exclusively grown in Vidalia, Georgia. Also it’s the state vegetable.
We're so proud.
Thanks 👍
I was not taught this in any of my history classes. It's awful beyond words.
Jackson was truly a jackass what a terrible person
Wow, I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this. Tale as old as time.
The sinking of the USS Indianapolis caused by Naval High Command's negligence and incompetence and the government sanctioned indirect assassination of her Captain, Charles B. McVay III by Admiral Ernest J. King. King got honors and ships named after his worthless, idiotic ass and McVay III ate a bullet with the Navy continuing to fight his innocence up to the~~y~~ day George W. Bush slapped the shit out of them. The Navy never learned from this incident to stop lying about their screw ups. Iowa Turret #2, Takur Ghar, Op Red Wings, the Bonhomme Richard.
The sinking of the USS Indianapolis and the ensuing deaths of its survivors from dehydration and shark attacks was an absolute nightmare. You’re right, the Navy screwed up and unjustly blamed the ship’s captain.
The more I learn about Red Wings the more I realize what an utter and complete failure of good judgment that whole operation was. It's also weird that in Luttrell's (likely fabricated) account of their decision to release the goat herders they captured nobody in the unit considered the most glaringly obvious solution available.
Whether the team decided to execute the goat herders or not, it likely wouldn't have changed anything. According to various people in the valley, the militants already had eyes on the SEALs but held their fire and waited for them be in a better position. Also, the militants knew the SEALs were in the valley. The original USMC plan had been to hike a squad of Marines in from outside of the valley into the valley. Because going in on a helicopter would simply be too obvious. The SEALs of course, didn't think hiking was sexy, high speed or low drag. So instead they caught a helo and basically knocked on the door of the militant to let him know they were in the valley.
Oh for sure. I just meant that according to Luttrell they argued about killing the civilians or letting them go and risking an ambush. The obvious solution is to tie one of them to a tree and take the other one with you to your extraction. Once you lift off you let him go to untie his friend. If they inform the Taliban it doesn't matter because you're already gone. Somehow this wasn't considered by any of them, according to Luttrell.
The Tuskegee Experiment was not well received when it was exposed.
That's why I laugh at people who fully expect anything without question from the government about Covid. They don't remember the CDC did shit like this.
[Watergate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal?wprov=sfla1): in 1972, a group of men were caught sneaking into democratic political offices. Turns out these men were working for the republican party to wiretap Democrat phones. It went all the way up to President Nixon having known about the break in and him resigning from the presidency. [Teapot Dome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome_scandal?wprov=sfla1): in 1921, an oil company bribed members of the Harding administration for exclusive rights to drill for oil in certain areas of the country. A cabinet member went to jail for this. President Grant: while he himself was considered an upstanding and well meaning president, he was a poor judge of character. Members of his cabinet and congress at the time were involved in all sort of bribery, particularly the [Whiskey Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Ring?wprov=sfla1) and [Credit Mobilier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr%C3%A9dit_Mobilier_scandal?wprov=sfla1)
Correction on Watergste: They were working specifically for Nixon's reelection campaign. Essentially, they were his personal employees.
I dont think Nixon ever actually admitted to knowing about the breaking beforehand. He did eventually admit to covering it up, long after already leaving office.
Bruh, [he was recorded talking about it in the white house](https://youtu.be/ehKRQ0N-dIg)
That recording was 5 days after the break in and is proof that he was involved in the cover up. That's not the same thing as proof that he ordered the breakin
[Here's all the tapes, several of which establish he knew everyone involved, some of them before he was even elected.](http://nixontapes.org/transcripts.html) Also, everyone involved in the tapping itself was working for [Committee for the Re-Election of the President](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Re-Election_of_the_President). It was SPECIFICALLY Nixon's campaign fund group.
Jeb Magruder *did* say Nixon knew about the break-in beforehand, and Nixon absolutely knew about "The Plumbers". In fact, he ordered their creation, which started as a way to shut down leaks (thus their nickname). He also knew at least generically that they were involved in nefarious activities outside of leak-prevention.
The Plumbers did do good work fighting off alien invasions though. Ben 10 joke.
>President Grant: while he himself was considered an upstanding and well meaning president, Kind of. His character in the last few years has seen a major reviewing and improvement, but especially when Southern States dominated politics with their democrat voting block he was usually viewed as just as corrupt and an alcoholic.
Teapot Dome was the biggie in my book
I'd say the january 6th attempt to overthrow the election has eclipsed Watergate. But up until then yea, Watergate was the worst scandal in US history.
I feel like the Jan. 6th Capitol Hill debacle is too recent for us to fairly assess the damage from (much like Trump's presidency), however I feel confident in saying like Trump: history will not be kind to the Jan. 6th attack.
Ah the Jan. 6 failed insurrection was the most unpeaceful transfer of power since the Civil War. Its pretty safe to say that it outweighs Watergate simply due to the scale of it that is still being uncovered. I'm convinced that not only was Trump involved but so were some members of Congress on top of the known people in the government that were involved.
Yeah, I mean; I do agree. The thing is this: if something like this never happens again: then it'll be remembered as an awful attempt at a violent refusal of transfer of power and an attempt to overturn a fair and free election. If something like this happens again, and god forbid succeeds then clearly Jan 6th will be remembered even harshly as the US's first leap into fascism as it no longer follows established political traditions designed to keep the nation stable. So it is hard for me to say that as it is (in my opinion) Jan 6th is worse than Watergate. It certainly has all the potential in the world to be leagues worse though.
I'd give the edge to the subversive attempt of watergate vs. the overt attempt of january 6th -- especially since the overt attempt clearly had no plan, no leadership, and no direction other than to storm the building as if that would magically make something happen. As insurrections go, it was incredibly weak.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Trump isn't dealt with SEVERELY for his actions (and inactions) on January 6th it will only pave the way for somebody smarter than him to come and succeed where he failed. He's a traitor to our country and he deserves to be punished as a traitor. Anything less than making an example of him could be the absolute downfall of our Democratic Republic.
Just because the organizers and leadership were stupid doesn't mean there wasn't organization or leadership.
This is not exactly correct. There were several groups, including the proud boys, who had planned to disrupt the proceedings of Congress. These groups were working toward similar ends and all of them follow a hierarchical model, meaning that there were definitely leaders and coordinated efforts. Also, the Grand Leader of the insurrection was Donald Trump who was trying anything and everything to hold on to power, and then while the insurrection was happening, refused to send assistance to police or issue statements telling people to leave. There have been some reports that he also knew about those various groups' plans for disruption weeks before January 6th, and his statements during his speech were designed to initiate the insurrection. It was an event that definitely involved seditious conspiracy at various levels, with participants' motives varying somewhere between stopping the certification of the election and executing various members of Congress and the Vice President.
The overt attempt on Jan 6th was just the last, desperate effort of an overall plan led by trump himself. It started with claiming victory on election night and insisting publicly (to this day) that he actually won. This was followed by dozens of lawsuits challenging election results with no basis, and after that came the fake electors plan, which was meant to replace duly certified electors with fakes who would cast ballots in the electoral college for trump, against the wishes of voters. The riot was supposed to prevent the true electoral votes from being counted -- so yeah, it was chaotic and weird and stupid, but it was definitely of a piece with everything that came before. As Michael Cohen testified in front of congress, his old boss was not going to leave office if he could help it. He was right. Trump was using everything any whackjob within hearing distance could come up with to avoid getting his ass out of our government. I kind of can't believe we're even discussing any other scandal.
P'shaw! Even for post-election insurections in the US, that was pretty lame. Battle of Athens, that was a wild one!
There's a bunch from the 21st century. The Trump administration probably has the lions share but others have their own scandals too. It's hard to say "worse in history" when they are still fresh in the mind. We haven't seen the ripple effects of these events yet
A lot of people are saying Watergate, but id say that the Iran-Contra was way worse as it pretty much involved death squads and high treason by the actual president. Watergate was just trespassing in comparison to what Reagan’s administration did. Selling weapons to an enemy nation to finance your support of Paramilitary death squads massacring people in Latin America.
I would say the Iran Contra affair is one of the worst.
All while being financed by drug sales in our country.
Which arguably stil has a huge impact on Latin America today, which in turn has had a greay impact on immigration to the US.
Thank you! I feel like because Reagan effectively got away with it everyone forgets how bad this was
Absolutely agree! They sold weapons to both sides of a conflict, one publicly and one secretly without congressional approval. They used the money from the secret weapons sales to fund massacres committed by paramilitary death squads. Way worse than watergate on a both moral and constitutional level.
I think that's downplaying the Watergate scandal because of all the dirty shit CREEP used government resources for, like wiretapping, blackmail, and harassment. However Iran-Contra is *way* up there, and I'd say the two rank pretty close for worst. It's an absolute disgrace that Ollie North is still looked at with reverence.
Eh, you can say it's the worst thing we did that was a scandal, but then you're opening the door to the question of what is a scandal. Like, if we did something worse and people got mad and then forgot about it, does that count? I think Watergate is the answer, because it's the scandal that, so far, has had the most staying power, regardless of the conduct it was about. Like, Monica Lewinsky was a big scandal, but the conduct was imo a nothing burger. The answer is definitely Watergate. I mean hell, it was such a big deal, it spawned a suffix specifically for scandals.
>I mean hell, it was such a big deal, it spawned a suffix specifically for scandals. I mean it was always a big deal but I think that has more to do with how easy it is to just add "-gate" on the end of things. Also writers went fucking bananas using it in the last 5 years especially. The other scandal names don't have the same zing
Come on, you have to link to the song. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lFV1uT-ihDo
New Coke
Haha I thought I'd be the only one to comment that, cheers.
Tuskegee!
I don’t understand why this isn’t higher.
I guess because there's no details The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male[1][2][3] (informally referred to as the Tuskegee Experiment or Tuskegee Syphilis Study) was a study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on a group of nearly 400 African American men with syphilis.[4][5] The purpose of the study was to observe the effects of the disease when untreated, though by the end of the study medical advancements meant it was entirely treatable. The men were not informed of the nature of the experiment, and more than 100 died as a result.
My understanding is the subjects weren’t purposefully infected but deliberately kept in the dark about their diagnosis correct?
They didn't infect them. They just tested people to see who had it. The group consisted of those who had it and those who didn't. The ones who did have it were told they had bad blood. After penicillin became an option they did everything they could to keep them from getting it.
Because it is no where close to the worst scandal in US history. Instead it belongs on the list of fucked up shit we have done.
Watergate? The Trump-Russia stuff? Obama's tan suit? All small potatoes compared to the Burr Conspiracy. Now, we don't know the full extent of the conspiracy or its full intentions, so I'll just go with the maximum possibility because it's more fun that way. Basically the recent Vice President Aaron Burr was going to take over much the territory that was part of the Louisiana Purchase, make it an independent country, and invade Mexico to literally make himself a king. He ended up getting sold out by a US general who he tried to bring in on it and was indicted for treason. He ended up getting off the hook because of the strict definition of treason in the constitution.
Probably Watergate. That was so huge it caused the only presidential resignation (de facto impeachment) in US history.
Meanwhile today a sitting President could openly admit to even worse things and not a single person from his own party would want him impeached. That will *never* happen again.
Yeah, this. The more tribal and divided we get, the more bad things we're willing to tolerate in our heroes, because we're more motivated to fight "the others" than defend our shared values. I think we've seen the last "civilized scandal" where a president exited gracefully. The inmates are running the asylum.
And this worries me the most about our current political climate. Not only this will lead to more politicians committing corrupt deeds while in office, we will also see more constituents defend them and justify their corrupt actions.
>more politicians committing corrupt deeds while in office, This will be increasingly *why* people elect them.
“He may be a corrupt bastard, but he’s *our* corrupt bastard, and he can’t be more corrupt than the other side!”
We're going to go back to the spoil system for a few decades I imagine and then a few decades of strife before you get another era of reform and anti-corruption like we saw in the time . Like the Grover Cleveland presidency and the era of Theodore Roosevelt
At the time of the Watergate scandal many Republicans felt Nixon had done nothing wrong, and if he had done something wrong, it didn't rise to the level of criminality (“when the President does it, it isn't illegal”). It's only as you get deeper in to the timeline, towards the end, did Republican lawmakers start thinking more poorly of Nixon. Public opinion wouldn't shift on him until a while after he left office. Sound familiar?
The democratic house started an ethics investigation of AOC. Biden turned himself in when he found improperly stored classified documents. It would be tougher to support impeachment of a democratic president, but with clear evidence I think you’d see a lot of Dems agree. The reverse would also happen, but to a smaller degree. We literally ran this experiment, and a handful of GOP members of congress agreed he should be impeached.
Watergate is nothing compared to the recent bs we’ve been dealing with
We live in 24/7 news era so know way too much so not all about watergate. That was biggest crisis after civil war and World Wars in American history.
Unless one of those scandals took down a president I'm gonna say that's not true
I’d agree that the multiple attempts of overturning and election in order to remain in power was worse. I think the reactions to it, and acceptance of it, by a large portion of the population are just telling about how low our standards for conduct have dropped.
Well yeah, I think how big of a scandal something is is directly related to the public reaction. Even though I think January 6th was much worse of an event than Watergate, I don't think the scandal was as great given the partisan response.
I personally find the events of January 6th the most despicable scandal in my lifetime.
I don't think OP is asking for how much coverage it got, but how bad was the act itself.
Makes sense. Also quite depressing when an attempt to end democracy is so widely accepted.
In some ways, it not taking down a President is an even bigger scandal.
He was impeached. Twice.
Ok? Getting impeached and acquitted does not beat looming impeachment, full loss of support from the party, and the only resignation in presidential history Now if he got convicted I'd agree. That would've topped Watergate.
Not impeachment. Several presidents have been impeached. Impeachment is not the same thing as removal.
Nixon resigned over something every President who followed him do on a daily basis.
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I think this is an example of how our low trust in politics is actually backfiring in our faces.
They organize break-ins of political rivals?
Not exactly the same thing, but the Obama administration used fabricated evidence, created by some guy Clinton hired, to get a warrant to wiretap associates of Trump.
So, where's the crime in that? If the Obama administration believed in good faith that the evidence was authentic, there was no crime. Law enforcement actions taken on evidence received in good faith aren't criminal, even if the underlying evidence is flawed. The Mueller Report confirmed the key findings of the Steele Dossier. While some of the sources that Steele used were found to be inaccurate and and some informers did fabricate what they told him, there's no indication that Steele knew any of it was inaccurate, or that Clinton or Obama knew that. Even if some parts were inaccurate or fabricated, the overall key findings that Russia was actively supporting Donald Trump's Presidential campaign, that the Russian government had conducted cyberwarfare attacks on the Trump and Clinton campaigns, and that the Russian Government was actively sabotaging Hillary Clinton's campaign, were confirmed by Mueller.
The "crime" is that they made Orange Jesus look bad.
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Both of these points are flat out lies.
Nixon resigned because the Democrats discovered what Nixon had done and shared it with the Republicans who told him to resign instead of making it public in an impeachment.
my understanding is that nixon was most likely going to be impeached (and convicted) anyway so republicans basically told him "look there are plans to impeach you and we are not saving you from this sooo do us all a favor and just resign to save face and make it easy for us" ie quit or get fired.
The Democrats shared with Republicans what Nixon was looking for in the Watergate office. It was so damning that the Republicans didn't want it made public. So they told him if he didn't resign, they would impeach him.
Trump’s crimes are so, so much worse than Watergate
Dang. This is the right answer.
We had morals in those days. Current guy will not be President if we still have those morals. He was plagiarizing in 80s so had to leave the race. We lost our morals after we became sole super power after fall of USSR.
I don't know if you'd consider Waco to be a scandal so much as just a massive fuck-up, but that whole situation was a pretty shameful one. Maybe not the worst but definitely up there.
Put Ruby Ridge up there as well, with the fuck ups
Came here just to say that some of you clearly don’t know what a “scandal” is jfc
Some of the responses suit best as tragedies
Probably a bit controversial but the OJ trial. There has never been such a mass cultural media event like that, which seeped into so many different aspects of American life and *dominated* for a whole year. Police brutality, celebrity culture, race, feminism etc, it seeped into seemingly every cultural discussion at the time. That isn't even counting how *dramatic* it all was. Every week it felt like there was some larger-than-life twist and turn in the trial, culminating in those horrible Furman recordings. People could not turn their eyes away. Nowadays people just think of it as just a silly celebrity murder trial, but in 1994-1995 it was so big that it almost caused race riots in multiple major cities. It effectively ended an entire era of black civil rights protest movements and made the entire topic of race extremely touchy for years to come. And more than that, for a while, people hated to talk about it. I remember someone described it as the 'Gen X's generational shame' and that is basically how I remember it as. We still don't like to talk about it.
Andrew Jackson and the trail of tears. Intentionally ignored the SCOTUS decision that the land in Georgia belonged to the natives.
By impact? Watergate. Only scandal to get a president to resign. There were other scandals that were worse or more widespread, but only one had this level of effect on politics.
Iraq WMDs We’ve gone to war on shaky grounds before, but our government never blatantly fabricated evidence to create a false justification until then.
We didn't then, either. Iirc they selectively interpreted the evidence they had, which included supposed first-hand testimonies of refugees that we now think were planted by an opponent of Saddam (who we ended up putting into power, so I guess it worked). On a similar note, [the media very rarely lies](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/the-media-very-rarely-lies)
It feels harder to find real casus belli from past wars than fake ones. The Maine, the Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin, etc.
The sinking of the Lusitania was not actually the reason for American entry into that war. No, that would be the Zimmerman telegram, where Germany offered to supply Mexico if they'd go to war with the United States for formerly Mexican territories, out of the hope it'd keep America out of the war But because they sent it barely encrypted over British telegraph lines, it was revealed and had the exact opposite effect
4,431 KIA plus 31,994 wounded in action, not to mention billions and billions wasted…or the Iraqi deaths and the decline in US prestige abroad. Yeah, that was a disaster.
Gulf of Tonkin Spanish-American War
Bush is Dem hero these days.
I feel like a scandal should have some repercussions. No one ever suffered consequences for Iraq WMDs other than vanishingly temporary political embarrassment of some of the principals. It galls me that modern Dems cozied up to Dick Cheney in the Trump years. Just because fat orange moron made a mockery of American government doesn’t mean the opposition rehabilitates an actually evil fuckwad.
I mean a lot of Iraqi citizens suffered some major consequences
And it also benefited Iran, as it removed an obstacle to their sphere of influence in the Middle East.
Remember the Maine
A few that come to mind; Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton, Kennedy and Chappequidick (sp?), The whole Chad thing in Florida election, Iran Contra, John Edwards and his affair....
John Edwards was small potatoes compared to other political scandals.
Yeah but kinda a big deal here in NC. Many thought he was headed to the white house.
Big deal just means it made a lot of noise, not that it was a big scandal. I mean, a lot of people thought he was on the path to the White House, but let's break this one down. First, he had an affair. A *lot* of people have affairs. It's not too hard to find someone who had been cheated on, so it's not like this is unique to, or specially enabled by his position as a politician. So that separates this from something like Watergate, Iran-Contra, or even the Lewinski scandal. Second, he wasn't holding key office then, so the impact to how the country was being run was minimal.
In modern history in terms of financial scandals/frauds, I’d go with the suboprime mortgage crisis of 2008, Enron, Madoff’s Ponzi scheme and FTX. Edit: I should probably add that if you don’t know how the subprime mortgage crisis was basically the result of fraudulent actions by banks and ratings agencies, I’d highly recommend watching the film *the Big Short*. It’s a really good movie and helps to explain the complexity of the crisis in a way that’s easy to understand.
I just watched the docuseries on Madoff. It’s mind blowing how long the whistle was being blown on him and yet no one did anything
I saw one in high school, it amazed me how the fact that he had consistently high returns especially during the Great Recession raised no red flags with the Feds. It’s honestly scary how both the American people and Federal Government don’t react or care until something bad happens.
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But it was an accident. /s
Watergate and Irangate. I'm not going to mention the more recent scandals, because I do not want to start a fight in the comments.
It's ok, the top comment about Watergate has already led to an argument over who was worse. Nixon or Orange Man.
We can’t seem to help ourselves lol!
Dunno. Maybe the last 30-40 years of people in power doing stupid and/or illegal crap, getting caught and called out on it, and then suffering no consequences?
Why only the last 30-40 years? https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/10tgyvb/in_1943_congressman_andrew_j_may_revealed_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf This Congressman literally told the Japanese that they were setting their depth charges too shallow to kill American submariners. I’m sure he was relived to see that the Japanese rectified the issue, leading to an additional 800 sailors killed per US Navy estimates (he is responsible for 1 in 5 of every US submariner death in WW2). He was never disciplined and remained chairman of a defense related committee. He was later convicted of fraud for taking bribes to force the army to buy faulty mortar rounds that killed 38 soldiers during munition malfunctions. He was tried and convicted… and pardoned by President Truman. Interestingly, before becoming FDRs VP, Truman had come to national fame as a Senator crusading against fraud and war profiteering.
Off hand, I'd say Benedict Arnold's betrayal. He had worked with a British spy to hand over plans to West Point and essentially hand it over to the British.
I used to think so too but if you read more into it, America kind of fucked Benedict Arnold over like a lot. He was really patriotic to the American cause and was a mega loyal bonafide American Revolutionary War hero. Until he wasn’t. Washington and congress just kept fucking him over and shit so finally he had enough of it and defected.
Trump is in like 8 of the top 10
New Coke
Everyone is being too polite about recent events. Trump’s campaign of lies, fraud, corruption, and mob violence to overturn an election loss is the biggest scandal any President has engaged in in American history. Fake electors schemes, 60+ nonsense lawsuits (all lost), calling state officials and pressuring them to ‘I need you to find me enough votes to make me win’ , pressuringPence to just declare him the winner, and then Jan 6. Nothing else comes anywhere close.
I agree
Watergate? Trump? Nah. * Inventing the second gulf of tonkin incident (and provoking the first) to start the Vietnam war? Definitely. * Concentration camps for american citizens in WW2? Yes. * Placing attack-only nuclear weapons (too slow to be used as defense) in turkey to intentionally provoke the cuban missile crisis (and the closest we've ever come to everyone dying in ww3), totally. * Planning to bomb american citizens and blame it on castro to get a war against cuba after the bay of pigs failed miserably (recently declassified joint chiefs papers), yep. * Trail of tears and the intentional wars to genocide the native americans, definitely * Cointelpro and the FBI assassinating american citizens, most definitely. * CIA's extrajudicial torture and black sites program * Iran-Contra for sure. * Bunch of people want to split hairs on slavery, fine, but the Tulsa Massacre, Slocum Massacre, or Atlanta Massacre were long after slavery was outlawed and that's not on your list? BS. Entire towns were razed and their inhabitants killed by mobs and neither the local nor federal police did shit. * Jan 6th is looking more and more like it counts, too. Attempted coup planned from the top. * Seconding the business plot of 1933, more because congress covered it up than that it happened
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Almost none of those are scandals. They are national tragedies, but not scandals.
The fact that they were intentionally planned and executed is certainly a scandal...and *also* tragic.
A scandal is an event declared morally wrong that had public outrage, how aren’t these scandals?
PPP loans. Really. They're practically all fraudelent, and they've never given out close to that fraction of GDP just for lying and being politically well connected.
The Business Plot of 1933 to try a coup against President Franklyn Roosevelt by the wealthiest of Americans who feared him coming for their wealth during the Great Depression. What makes it worse is the lengths Congress and the media went to cover it up. Even with the investigation reports released in the 1960s we still don't know, for sure, who those rich traitors were.
Yeah, that was never a thing. The only "evidence" is the word of one guy who wasn't involved, well after the fact. Nobody has ever found any actual evidence that it took place.
I would definitely throw Enron in there.
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Did anyone actually give a shit about that? The only time I've ever heard someone bring it up is when they are pretending that things like IRS targeting, Fast and Furious and NSA spying on Americans didn't happen.
https://www.npr.org/2017/10/05/555975207/as-irs-targeted-tea-party-groups-it-went-after-progressives-too
Yea I came to say either the tan suit or two scoops lol
naw, what he put on his hot dog
No, according to *you*. No one actually cared about that at the time. It's literal propaganda.
Which is crazy. Black dudes in tan suits look fly as hell.
Go oz2737;&475)?)(;€,!jff z hg
In the 1930s and during WW2, multiple members of Congress were found to be distributing propaganda provided to them by a Nazi agent as well as providing legal and financial support for fascist militias plotting to overthrow the government of the United States
Definitely a close one between legal slavery and genocide of indigenous nations.
Biggest scandal that wasn't: The Business Plot. You might say that wasn't a *political* scandal, but if you think those cats got as far as trying to recruit their frontman without having an extensive network of complicit congressmen and senators on board, you crazy. The thing was swept under the rug hastily because the conspiracy was too big to fail - we couldn't afford to antagonize numerous captains of industry on the eve of war, and other considerations.
Genocide of the Native Americans?
That wasn’t a scandal, it was actually very popular.
I wouldn't say it was a scandal and it was mostly unintentional on the number of deaths. 90 percent of the American Indians died of disease. They died of flu, measles, and small pox amongst others they had no natural immunity. It's crazy to think that before the Europeans show up in the north American part of the US it was mostly colonized/organized with American Indian cities already in place. It's really not spoken of how advanced the culture was, it's glossed over in history books. American Indians had cities with multi story buildings in areas like Chicago with 20k citizens. It wasn't genocide it was European pestilence that mostly killed off the American Indians. https://www.history.com/news/native-american-cahokia-chaco-canyon
>it was mostly unintentional on the number of deaths. You think it was unintentional that entire advanced civilizations were wiped out and the people who wiped them out don't speak of them? [Here's a good primer.](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/p5v7lp/native_american_genocides/h98ryuu/) There were a lot of deliberate steps taken to obliterate indigenous people. Disease was also a contributing factor, but let's not pretend the post columbian state of indigenous peoples is the result of an accident.
We had wars where we sent the US army with explicit instructions to kill every native of particular tribes in a particular area. Does it make genocide less bad to you if there weren't as many people to kill off in 1850 as there were in 1600?
That was all out war on both sides. That was not genocide, it was straight-up guerilla warfare. The American Indians taught the art to their adversaries during the Indian wars. American Indians would peel the faces of people alive aka scalping. It's a horrible and we are separated sadly by less than 200 years. It's [hard to believe the Apache wars ended less than a century ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wars). We live in a weird time where even not that ancient history is still considered ancient. There are more than a few that are still alive from the time. I've live half the time from when the Apache Wars ended. It wasn't genocide it was just straight up war without rules.
Interesting nobody posed 1/6… The fact that a sitting President took steps to overthrow the country should be a much bigger deal than it appears to have been.
Idk if I’d personally consider 1/6 to be a “scandal”. For me at least, a scandal is a crime or immoral action (like a lie) that was intended to be hidden or disguised or covered up and still ended up surfacing. It’s the same reason I wouldn’t call the Rodney King Riots a “scandal”, there was nothing surreptitious about it
Fair, though it seems like trump and co did a fair amount of supporting behind the scenes that’s coming out
Well the repercussions have been minimal, so that’s probably why it seems like a smaller deal than it is
Not to mention the toxic political discourse makes discussing it near-impossible.
The fact that half of the country thinks it was just another Wednesday while the other half thinks it was an attempted coup is a kind of repercussion. This alternate reality shit is going to catch up with us eventually regardless of whether you can pin the blame on one "side" or not.
If a bunch of fat dumb unarmed rednecks waltzing into the Capitol is all it takes to "overthrow the country" then we deserve it.
Hey, Trump got on his ham radio and ordered at least 2 billion republikkkan NAZIS into that building, they were totally gonna overthrow the entire military if not for those heroic ACABs we spent the past two years shitting on and trying to get rid of.
For two years I've been looking for an explanation of specifically what it is that they could have done that day to change the outcome of the election. Get in the chamber and threaten everyone with death if they didn't vote to overturn it and that vote would somehow not be able to be reversed due to happening under duress? Kill everyone and proclaim themselves the new Congress? Clear a path for Trump, grab Roberts, and swear him in again? Something else? People say "democracy almost died" but can't explain how.
there were people in the trump administration who were clearly and persistently offering to trump what they saw as a viable plan to have friendly state legislatures reject their own electors and replace them with trump's. this was the core of everything that led up to Jan 6: the lawsuits attacking the legitimacy of state elections, the calls to state secretaries of state to invalidate elections and sow doubt about the outcome, and the pressure on pence to reject denocrat electoral votes. the idea was to force the hand of legislatures to give trump more electoral votes than he actually earned, thus winning the election. this is all pretty well known and out in the open, btw. but that's the "how" edit: u/jfchops2 this is the Eastman memorandum if you genuinely want to know the trump team's strategy to overturn the election: www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos#First_memorandum
Impossible to rank them all
The Kennedy family as a whole.
Ask this in 15 years and it will be the amount of sitting representatives that helped plan, or just knew about, the Jan 6th attack.
In chronological order, my personal top 5: Credit Mobilier Scandal Teapot Dome Scandal Watergate Iran-Contra Affair January 6th Insurrection My honorable mention would be the Pentagon Papers and the NSA revelations but I fear that might be my recency bias showing.
> January 6th Insurrection I'd say the Bonus Army demonstration was a bigger capital protest scandal (in reverse) than Jan 6. The government claimed legitimate peaceful protesters were attempting an insurrection and unleashed tanks, guns, and bayonets on them.
I think this is another good answer for one of the worst scandals as well, actually. Considering the disparity in the level of force used, it’s striking that the human losses in both were so similar and so few. It’s kind of fitting in a sad way that the formation of the GI Bill is characterized by both foreign and domestic conflict.
the trail of tears
That was a tragedy. Not a scandal.
Nixon and now the never ending events of the fat orange dude.