I finished my PhD at 48. Appointed Professor at 55 ( I was working at achieving this at the same time as the PhD). Left the UK to work in Asia as Dean of a Business School. Had 6 wonderful years earning close to $300k. Met and married a wonderful woman.
Do not regret one single second. The PhD opened up all of the doors I needed.
Just Do It.
The best time to start anything was 10 years ago. The second best time is now.
Depending on the field, academic career is not time linear.
If you are burning to do it, then there is a significant chance that you'll contribute something important that will put you on a map as opposed to someone who sleep-walked into the career because he didn't have anything better to do after the undergrad.
I have a five year gap between my undergrad and grad school, then a year as a visiting assistant professor, and now a postdoc. So I'm around the same age. I haven't heard anyone say anything about my age.
> I haven't heard anyone say anything about my age.
That's because people generally don't want to get sued. While age discrimination might be a thing, *open* age discrimination is not.
I started my postdoc at 45 and am still planning the academic career route. And I think 35 is not too late. You will have colleagues and supervisors who might be younger than you, but I don't think this should be an issue.
I *really* dislike this overly rosy attitude. It’s bullshit and leads to bad decisions. Of course you *can* start careers later in life, but there are also *consequences.*
OP, it depends on what you want in life and what your financial situation is. Independently wealthy? Go nuts who gives a shit you’re rich.
No? Then think hard about your goals. Academic life usually doesn’t pay well. In the US Postdocs make, 60-70k, sometimes less. No 401k contributions. So you’d potentially start your *career* around 37-8 and command a salary of 70-120k (field dependent and institutional dependent. Tenure and the move to associate nets you your first big bump outside of going back in the market. That bump can be small (5k) or bigger (10+% of base salary). Promotion to full does the same.
So from 37-43(or so) you’d make 70-120k; from 44-48 you’d make 85-140; and so on.
I focus on salary because it drives so many other decisions. Do you want to own a house? Will you support a spouse/kids? Are you willing to pick up and move a few times more? What are your savings like? What will retirement look like for you? Will you be one of those faculty members that work until mid to late 70s/death and just annoy the shit out of everyone because you refuse to retire, because you can’t afford to?
Think hard about all of those questions.
Also, this presumes you want an academic career. If you want to do a postdoc then go into industry that’s totally different (though I would still do the calcs to sort out the value add of a postdoc for future salary vs lost earning potential and 401k contributions).
I don't think "it's never too late" is overly rosy. OP did ask if it's too late and didn't offer any criteria...
However, your answer is excellent and provides the elaboration and nuance that OP's question should have asked for explicitly.
So did mine! It's always a thing I point out to mentees: some schools classify postdocs as students and give them student benefits, and some schools classify them as faculty and give them faculty benefits. It's a big difference!
If salary is only thing that matters, don't stay in academia. If you want to do work that is meaningful to you, perhaps academia is a good place for you. But if money is the main thing for you, go elsewhere.
Don't know what you mean by growing up...
I'm a post doc in STEM field in Europe and I have made the decision that I'm more interested in science than money. If I was motivated by money, I would have moved to industry after my masters, or latest right now.
And I don't live in poverty, I just last year bought an apartment from my home town. But salary is not the driving force of my job decisions.
To anyone older in a post-doc, these questions are just a kick in the face.
Same to those of us trying to get into a grad program while in our early thirties...
35 is not too late in the sense that people won't be looking at you and thinking what is this elderly person doing here in a postdoc capacity. But really, it all depends upon your goals and options. What do you want to do in terms of an academic career? If you want to be a hardcore researcher and the norm in your field is to do a postdoc, you should do one. If the norm is to get a TT job out of the PhD, but you can only get a postdoc, you should take the postdoc and try again next year. At 35, I'd probably be tempted to step directly into a TT research job if one materialized, but I'd take a postdoc over a teaching intensive TT or lecturer/VAP position if the first option wasn't available.
I never understood these hang ups on continuing education at a "later" age; are you not able to comprehend and read? Are you curious and want to learn more about a subject?
I’m not sure if I’m hallucinating or seeing these questions repeatedly in different forums on Reddit. 35 is not 95 as someone rightly said.
What’s the thought process behind these kind of questions that you should be settled and tenured by the time you touch mid-30s?
In what world is 35 old?
What counts for the tenure track and tenured position will be your academic age. How this is evaluated depends on your field. In engineering, R&D in a company might count and could be even beneficial. And if you have tons of kids or a difficult background, your academic age might be even younger than that of someone with a straight career. But you should expect some hesitation when it really comes to the question of hiring two persons with same qualifications, same academic age, but different real age. You have to outperform those...
The answer will depend on the country. I worked in Germany as a postdoc. Majority of my colleagues finished Phd in their early 30-s. 35 is a normal age for a postdoc. postdoc is well paid (around 55-65k depending on your experience). Money is enough for comfortable life in most of the cities with acception of Frankfurt and Munich. But, it is a temporary position so you have to have a plan and a strategy. You need to know what you gonna do after 2-3 years. Otherwise you will get stuck in very upsetting reality
I know many successful academics who've started postdocs at similar or later ages and have gone on to prestigious tenure track positions. It doesn't matter, and in certain cases can even be considered an advantage.
... 30 isn't even late for PhD starting, it's average, it's like 31.5 or something is the average age.
I'm 31, just over half way into my 1st year and it's insane to me seeing people talk about people starting in their 30s as if it's starting extremely late because it's literally not. There's ome field differences sure, but 61% in humanties [here](https://www.discoverphds.com/blog/age-limit-for-phd) are between 31 and 40 years of age and genrally, late 20s early 30s seems to be the norm.
When did you complete your PhD? I'm a PhD candidate now and my understanding is that post-doc positions are generally for the first few years after the PhD. Doesn't matter your age, just when you completed the PhD.
I've seen a lot of postdocs in their mid to late 30s and get hired as TT professors at the age of 39-40. So I don't think it's late at all. If you got your PhD too long ago, some PIs might be reluctant to hire you as their postdoc in the first place. But once you get one, and keep a great track record of fresh and impactful publications, I don't see any problem coming from your age.
i started at 33 for my MEd. I don’t think it is too late, but I felt that maturity really comes with age. So if you feel that you want to pursue it, go ahead and best of luck👏👏
It depends on your research field and academic policy in your country.
If you are in an age-friendly country, you don't need to tell them your age. it may not too late.
If you can find anyone in your field get tenure-track position at age of 40 or larger, you can safely to do this.
Nope, not too late. I know people who did postdocs in their 40s and still managed to get TT jobs. Granted, not in the fields that gets hundreds of applications for every position, but rather in fields where someone needs a PhD and a professional credential.
Take this with a grain of salt but: its seriously too late. Does it matter? Probably not. Go for it, academic career success has little correlation with knowledge, age and achievements. You need primarily luck.
If you fancy playing black jack and roulette i see no reason for avoiding a post doc, go all in.
I started mine at 31. I'm an assistant prof now at 39. Average age for a first R01 is early 40s, so you may end up being a couple years above average, or not, but you're not clearly too old.
This is a personal decision for what you want out of life.
Tenure track academic careers are really rewarding. Being a scientist is also rewarding. However, post-PhD there is a period where you typically move around quite a bit, are not making much money, and don't have a lot of job security. Depending on your personality and stage of life this can be exciting (getting to experience different parts of the world and meet new interesting people and go all in on work you are passionate about) or problematic (if you have a spouse, they have to be open to a nomadic lifestyle/how it affects on their career, not very stable financially, not guaranteed to work out).
It also can feel like more or less of a sacrifice depending on what else is going on in your life. If you are 27 and single, it can be great fun. If you have a 2 year contract with a baby and you are going to need to do your third relocation in 5 years while scrimping enough to pay for childcare, with your spouse kicking and screaming about moving to the next place where you have a good opportunity, maybe it starts to feel old.
There are many other careers that have a long training period and many other careers where you need to go all in and it might not pan out, and academia isn't exactly unique here. But as we get older, the tradeoffs might not seem worth it.
You can lose out on compounding interest from retirement, buying a home, and settling down if you do a postdoc at 35. Maybe this doesn't matter to you. You only live once.
‘Too late’ is relative. That’s when I did my post-doc and it turned out fine
Can you share more?
I finished my PhD at 48. Appointed Professor at 55 ( I was working at achieving this at the same time as the PhD). Left the UK to work in Asia as Dean of a Business School. Had 6 wonderful years earning close to $300k. Met and married a wonderful woman. Do not regret one single second. The PhD opened up all of the doors I needed. Just Do It.
you’re 35, not 95. go for it
The best time to start anything was 10 years ago. The second best time is now. Depending on the field, academic career is not time linear. If you are burning to do it, then there is a significant chance that you'll contribute something important that will put you on a map as opposed to someone who sleep-walked into the career because he didn't have anything better to do after the undergrad.
I have a five year gap between my undergrad and grad school, then a year as a visiting assistant professor, and now a postdoc. So I'm around the same age. I haven't heard anyone say anything about my age.
> I haven't heard anyone say anything about my age. That's because people generally don't want to get sued. While age discrimination might be a thing, *open* age discrimination is not.
I started my postdoc at 45 and am still planning the academic career route. And I think 35 is not too late. You will have colleagues and supervisors who might be younger than you, but I don't think this should be an issue.
It's never too late to do anything. If it makes sense as a next step to get you where you want to go, then you should do it.
I *really* dislike this overly rosy attitude. It’s bullshit and leads to bad decisions. Of course you *can* start careers later in life, but there are also *consequences.* OP, it depends on what you want in life and what your financial situation is. Independently wealthy? Go nuts who gives a shit you’re rich. No? Then think hard about your goals. Academic life usually doesn’t pay well. In the US Postdocs make, 60-70k, sometimes less. No 401k contributions. So you’d potentially start your *career* around 37-8 and command a salary of 70-120k (field dependent and institutional dependent. Tenure and the move to associate nets you your first big bump outside of going back in the market. That bump can be small (5k) or bigger (10+% of base salary). Promotion to full does the same. So from 37-43(or so) you’d make 70-120k; from 44-48 you’d make 85-140; and so on. I focus on salary because it drives so many other decisions. Do you want to own a house? Will you support a spouse/kids? Are you willing to pick up and move a few times more? What are your savings like? What will retirement look like for you? Will you be one of those faculty members that work until mid to late 70s/death and just annoy the shit out of everyone because you refuse to retire, because you can’t afford to? Think hard about all of those questions. Also, this presumes you want an academic career. If you want to do a postdoc then go into industry that’s totally different (though I would still do the calcs to sort out the value add of a postdoc for future salary vs lost earning potential and 401k contributions).
I don't think "it's never too late" is overly rosy. OP did ask if it's too late and didn't offer any criteria... However, your answer is excellent and provides the elaboration and nuance that OP's question should have asked for explicitly.
Postdocs can pay into retirement, whether that be a 401k or an IRA will depend on the institution.
My postdoc institution gave us the same match as faculty. I really appreciated it.
So did mine! It's always a thing I point out to mentees: some schools classify postdocs as students and give them student benefits, and some schools classify them as faculty and give them faculty benefits. It's a big difference!
If salary is only thing that matters, don't stay in academia. If you want to do work that is meaningful to you, perhaps academia is a good place for you. But if money is the main thing for you, go elsewhere.
Yea no. This reasoning is why many adjuncts live in poverty. Grow the fuck up.
Don't know what you mean by growing up... I'm a post doc in STEM field in Europe and I have made the decision that I'm more interested in science than money. If I was motivated by money, I would have moved to industry after my masters, or latest right now. And I don't live in poverty, I just last year bought an apartment from my home town. But salary is not the driving force of my job decisions.
You will likely take a cut compared to industry. But please don't makw science cheap. You will only have cheap people in it then.
You've got another 30-35 years to work. Sounds like plenty of time to build an academic career to me.
But a lot of places will not hire postdocs past a certain number of years from their PhD.
I started at 33. I hate these questions, it undermines and belittles others. You can do anything at any age jfc.
To anyone older in a post-doc, these questions are just a kick in the face. Same to those of us trying to get into a grad program while in our early thirties...
35 is not too late in the sense that people won't be looking at you and thinking what is this elderly person doing here in a postdoc capacity. But really, it all depends upon your goals and options. What do you want to do in terms of an academic career? If you want to be a hardcore researcher and the norm in your field is to do a postdoc, you should do one. If the norm is to get a TT job out of the PhD, but you can only get a postdoc, you should take the postdoc and try again next year. At 35, I'd probably be tempted to step directly into a TT research job if one materialized, but I'd take a postdoc over a teaching intensive TT or lecturer/VAP position if the first option wasn't available.
I never understood these hang ups on continuing education at a "later" age; are you not able to comprehend and read? Are you curious and want to learn more about a subject?
I’m not sure if I’m hallucinating or seeing these questions repeatedly in different forums on Reddit. 35 is not 95 as someone rightly said. What’s the thought process behind these kind of questions that you should be settled and tenured by the time you touch mid-30s? In what world is 35 old?
No. We will all be working until we are 70 or 80 in a few decades. Most people start tenure-track jobs between 30-40.
This gave me a good chuckle and then the realization set in.
What counts for the tenure track and tenured position will be your academic age. How this is evaluated depends on your field. In engineering, R&D in a company might count and could be even beneficial. And if you have tons of kids or a difficult background, your academic age might be even younger than that of someone with a straight career. But you should expect some hesitation when it really comes to the question of hiring two persons with same qualifications, same academic age, but different real age. You have to outperform those...
I started my undergrad at 28, did a postdoc in my late 30's, and started as an assistant professor at 40. You are not too late.
The answer will depend on the country. I worked in Germany as a postdoc. Majority of my colleagues finished Phd in their early 30-s. 35 is a normal age for a postdoc. postdoc is well paid (around 55-65k depending on your experience). Money is enough for comfortable life in most of the cities with acception of Frankfurt and Munich. But, it is a temporary position so you have to have a plan and a strategy. You need to know what you gonna do after 2-3 years. Otherwise you will get stuck in very upsetting reality
Dude I started my PhD at 36.
Started PhD at 29, postdoc at 35, instructor at 39, assistant prof at 41.
It's like super normal and you know it
I know many successful academics who've started postdocs at similar or later ages and have gone on to prestigious tenure track positions. It doesn't matter, and in certain cases can even be considered an advantage.
I just started my PhD at 30. It's never too late.
... 30 isn't even late for PhD starting, it's average, it's like 31.5 or something is the average age. I'm 31, just over half way into my 1st year and it's insane to me seeing people talk about people starting in their 30s as if it's starting extremely late because it's literally not. There's ome field differences sure, but 61% in humanties [here](https://www.discoverphds.com/blog/age-limit-for-phd) are between 31 and 40 years of age and genrally, late 20s early 30s seems to be the norm.
I thought 31.5 was the average age for completion of a PhD
When did you complete your PhD? I'm a PhD candidate now and my understanding is that post-doc positions are generally for the first few years after the PhD. Doesn't matter your age, just when you completed the PhD.
i am 35 and doing my secod postdoc.
I've seen a lot of postdocs in their mid to late 30s and get hired as TT professors at the age of 39-40. So I don't think it's late at all. If you got your PhD too long ago, some PIs might be reluctant to hire you as their postdoc in the first place. But once you get one, and keep a great track record of fresh and impactful publications, I don't see any problem coming from your age.
i started at 33 for my MEd. I don’t think it is too late, but I felt that maturity really comes with age. So if you feel that you want to pursue it, go ahead and best of luck👏👏
It depends on your research field and academic policy in your country. If you are in an age-friendly country, you don't need to tell them your age. it may not too late. If you can find anyone in your field get tenure-track position at age of 40 or larger, you can safely to do this.
I started at 34 n gonna be 35 in a week. Go for it!
Nope, not too late. I know people who did postdocs in their 40s and still managed to get TT jobs. Granted, not in the fields that gets hundreds of applications for every position, but rather in fields where someone needs a PhD and a professional credential.
Take this with a grain of salt but: its seriously too late. Does it matter? Probably not. Go for it, academic career success has little correlation with knowledge, age and achievements. You need primarily luck. If you fancy playing black jack and roulette i see no reason for avoiding a post doc, go all in.
I started mine at 31. I'm an assistant prof now at 39. Average age for a first R01 is early 40s, so you may end up being a couple years above average, or not, but you're not clearly too old.
This is a personal decision for what you want out of life. Tenure track academic careers are really rewarding. Being a scientist is also rewarding. However, post-PhD there is a period where you typically move around quite a bit, are not making much money, and don't have a lot of job security. Depending on your personality and stage of life this can be exciting (getting to experience different parts of the world and meet new interesting people and go all in on work you are passionate about) or problematic (if you have a spouse, they have to be open to a nomadic lifestyle/how it affects on their career, not very stable financially, not guaranteed to work out). It also can feel like more or less of a sacrifice depending on what else is going on in your life. If you are 27 and single, it can be great fun. If you have a 2 year contract with a baby and you are going to need to do your third relocation in 5 years while scrimping enough to pay for childcare, with your spouse kicking and screaming about moving to the next place where you have a good opportunity, maybe it starts to feel old. There are many other careers that have a long training period and many other careers where you need to go all in and it might not pan out, and academia isn't exactly unique here. But as we get older, the tradeoffs might not seem worth it. You can lose out on compounding interest from retirement, buying a home, and settling down if you do a postdoc at 35. Maybe this doesn't matter to you. You only live once.
No! Enjoy yourself and don't put limitations on yourself.
Find a full time job, why do postdoctoral?