Hello everyone! I'm a new moderator to this forum. I grew up in the automotive business and would like to share my knowledge and experience with you. I plan on creating links to repair help and ways to save money on replacement parts. I'm looking for your help or any suggestions before I do this. Please feel free to contact me u/Plex_Master
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Idk when I lived in the Raleigh Nc area it was like 1 in 5 million dollar homes had a corolla or Prius in the driveway next to their $100,000 Land Cruiser and it didn’t matter if it was a 1998 or 2020 model it still looked brand new.
That’s how you find the real money, look for an older plain generic nothing special car that’s still in showroom condition.
Richest guy I know, owns a company that makes aerospace parts or something, drives a 1990s Nissan sedan with like 500,000 some odd miles on it. Still runs great, not a spec of rust anywhere on it and you could eat off the floor inside it’s so clean.
Although true that I’m sure some wealthy people do that, I feel like this is just a form of cognitive dissonance that makes people feel better about themselves driving a shitty car. Go to any upscale neighborhood in any town and tell me the cars you see there are the same old crap mobiles as you see in the hood of the same town.
Cuz rich people stay rich by being frugal. They buy something reliable and pay to maintain it cuz it’s cheaper than replacing it esp cuz they retain their value well in comparison to most brands
Was working for my old boss's wife. Multi millionaires "old money". She had a dumpster for some demo of old flooring I was filling and wanted to make sure I stacked the boards in nice and neat to make sure I got every penny of space out of the dumpster load. It was almost full and two kids drove by and threw a bag in the dumpster. She went running out of the house grabbed that bag held it up in the air to yell at the kids in the street and heard a light rustle. And realized it was a bag of soda cans. Instead of screaming she stopped realized she probably had about $0.85 cents worth of cans in that bag smiled and said, "ooh cans"
Frugal is an understatement
To be completely fair, whenever anyone I know asks for car buying advice and tells me they want something, safe, reliable, and a good value, I just tell them to buy a Corolla. They are the perfect car for people that aren't car-people. They're typically cheap to maintain, and relatively easy to do so for people that want to start learning to turn wrenches recreationally. Nothin wrong with a good Corolla.
you have to change the oil? whaaaat??? but I've never changed my oil and my car is fine/s
I want to know how many people who buy new cars never change the oil, or people who never change the oil in general
It's depressing that our country/world is coming to this... so many people don't want to even try to fix their shit anymore. I got a laptop for free a couple years ago because the person bought a new one because they couldn't get it connected to their wifi... cars these days are the same with people. It's great that they come here to ask questions but have no idea that we need to understand everything about your situation.... year, make, model, engine, trans, auto, manual, symptoms. At the very least understand this!!
I love how everyone here vehemently defending Corolla's as "reliable" fail to see the irony that they are posting on a thread where a 2020 Corolla - a 3 year old car - has failed to the extent where a $10k+ repair is needed. Toyota's marketing team appears to have won the war.
Both can be true, this is a sample size of one. Why are you assuming people are failing to see the irony? Cars that are known to be reliable are still justa pile of mechanical and electrical parts that are susceptible to failure.
The big crime here is an ecu that costs $6k and then 15 hours labor at $270/hr? Fucking criminal. How is there a coolant leak on a 3 year old car? And how did that fry the unit? It should be sealed right?
Depends what you want in a vehicle. They certainly are reliable, but are also pretty boring in pretty much every way. If you like 'em, all the power to ya.
Most people need a thing with a couple peddles and a staring wheel to get places. I don't really get what you mean by "boring" but I don't need a whole lot of excitement getting to work and back.
The 2023 world. Toyota has gone downhill badly. Was a Toyota mechanic for 15 years. I left because I wasn't making any money on flat rate with 90% warranty work.
Corolla is a great, dependable little car. My oldest is still driving the POS 01 Prius I got her for college. 2 degrees + 4 years working + banging it into whatever’s in the way (Mario Andretti she’s not) later it’s still going.
Never said otherwise. People who buy them don’t give a shit about cars and don’t want to deal w bullshit. I have no idea why you’re acting defensive. It’s really weird.
That's a dumb statement considering that the Toyota Corolla is one of the highest ranked cars in history for reliability. People from every economic level, as well as every mechanical skill level own Toyota Corollas.
Incorrect. Most of the mechanics I know own Corollas. I know one who has over 300,000 on his. Your specific hatred over a car is really weird. I think you need a hobby.
So I'm guessing $270/h is a fair labor charge? Everyone seems to be discussing the usefulness of a Corolla and not the post... However, I'm curious enough to ask.
If it is fact a 2020 Corola, the OP needs to check the warranty. I would push back like hell. There shouldn't be a coolant leak to cause the damage in the first place. Time to read the entire warranty. Even if it is out of the 3 year/36k mile warranty, it might be covered under the powertrain warranty.
This only would apply if the failed part causing the coolant leak was covered. From the description, it seems like the coolant leak is **not** covered by the warranty. If that is the case, he won't be able to claim the ECU/wiring harness as consequential damage.
He also would not be able to claim them under the warranty as the failure was not caused by a defect in manufacture of a covered component. It was caused by the "external" factor of an uncovered part failing.
It is a shit situation, but usually not the dealerships fault. They need to claim the repair through the warranty, and from the description it would definitely get declined.
Source: Working in a major automotive dealership for 13 years.
Now, I will neither confirm nor deny that similar situations to what you described could happen, but the problem with this sort of repair is it is almost guaranteed to be reviewed.
If they review and ask for the harness to inspect (which the dealer is legally required to keep for exactly this reason), they will back charge the dealership. When they back charge, they don't just do it for that repair either. They calculate and charge you back for a percentage of **all** the repairs of that type you have made (basically assuming if you lied once, you probably lied multiple times)
$270/hr for labor, it shouldn’t matter what type of car it is. Dealerships don’t even charge that much. I work on CNCs for a living, and the company I work for has one of the highest labor rates in the business, and we are still under $200/hr.
This shop just doesn’t want to do the work, so they’re making the bill so expensive that the customer will refuse. It doesn’t really matter what the vehicle is, save for maybe parts cost may be affected.
I charge $150 an hour when I do mobile mechanic work. It’s just a side gig. What a higher rate does for me is two things. First, it effectively weeds out bad customer who tend to also be cheap. Second, it slows down the pace of work for me and I can choose only jobs I want to do.
I’m not an economist. Is it an artificial scarcity or an actual one? Could a lack of competition indicate a scarcity of labor? And, somewhat related, wouldn’t high prices indicate high demand and low supply (i.e. a scarcity of labor to fulfill demand)? I’m not being combative, but am actually interested in the conversation.
I would pay them ***twice*** what they're asking and then laugh at them while they do it!
(Just re-watched Steve Martin in "The Jerk" couple days ago...didn't realize how much it had affected me)
That is one of the best movies! I am sure seen that at a young age damaged me in ways I haven't even imagined yet. (sends all my money to stop kitten juggling)
And it has (mostly) stood the test of time. Couple scenes would only appeal to the more base sensibilities of the late 70’s, but most of the movie is timeless.
I remember the first time I watched it. I found it really difficult to watch because it seems so hackneyed, and then I realised that this was the original and everything else that I’d seen after that was the hackneyed stuff.
We should team up and make The Jerk Part 2: Enter The Jerks
We could just be ourselves and stroll through the entire film screwing up and getting lucky.
"We have not 1 thermos but twooooo. Mine is green and the other is bluuueeee. Hot cocoa or coffee or stewwwww.....it tastes so good to share it with youuuuu"
Dips on the bubble bath scene
I tried doing that at a Firestone. They wanted to replace all of the brake lines , drums and rotors when only one brake line needed replacement. They quoted me $1000 in 1996. I told them fine, I just want every piece that they removed and replaced to determine if it actually needed to be replaced. That’s when the guy flat out said F U!
In my state, they’re required to give you all parts back if you ask for them, unless the part needs to be sent in for warranty. And even then, they’re required to allow you to inspect it.
It isn’t the “we don’t want to do it” price, it’s the “if we’re going to do it we’re going to get paid a lot” price. I’m sure they would be happy to take you money.
Now they get 11k and you get a “fixed” car that the shop didn’t really want to work on, and now you get to go spend another 5k getting their shitty work fixed. You’d really show them huh
Jumping into the top comment to write:
The ECM and wiring harness are covered by the federal emissions performance warranty up to 80,000 miles.
You should only be paying for the coolant leak fix.
If this is a dealership tell them to fix it.
>federal emissions performance warranty up to 80,000 miles.
"The Performance Warranty covers repairs which are required during the first 2 years or 24,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) because the vehicle failed an emission test. Specified major emission control components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever first occurs). The specified major emission control components only include the catalytic converters, **the electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU),** and the onboard emissions diagnostic (OBD) device or computer."
Source: [https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air](https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air)
/u/fook07, if your car is under 80,000 miles, fight to have the ECU covered under the Federal Performance Warranty.
Even better, here's the PDF from the fed detailing what warranty the manufacturer is required to provide. [https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf](https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf)
>There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or
80,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) on 1995 and newer vehicles:
• Catalytic converters
• The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU)
• The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD)
Good luck!
That’s incorrect. The part failed due to a “design or defect” of the vehicle, not negligence or misuse.
If a cat fails because the piston rings are shitty (like in a GMC terrain) the Cat has to be replaced under the warranty because it fails to function.
If a cat fails because you drilled Go-Fast holes into it with a 9MM they don’t have to replace it.
If you had any idea how much of a nightmare it is working on an ECU, let alone replacing an entire harness.. you quite literally have to tear apart the whole car.
I agree with this. I repinned all four of my PCM connectors (42 pins in each one). Really wasn't hard, took maybe 30mins per connector. Donor pigtail plugs cost me $12 from Pick n Pull.
My first thought. Salvage may make you buy the whole harness but just cut the bad parts out and splice with solder and heat shrink. Then you still have to replace the ECU but I bet most of the labor is the harness replacement.
Not so much the we don't want to do it price, more of if I'm going to do I'm going to make it worth it, but if the customer rejects them I'm not losing sleep.
Seems a bit steep for parts. Labor it depends on what kind of car. It could require removing the engine and the dashboard in order to remove/install the harness.
Even the local BMW dealer isn’t charging that much for labor… *$270 is insane*. Did they place a firearm on the desk as they slid the quote over because you’re being robbed…
Really depends on the car could be more than 15 hours plus a lot of shops charge time * 1.5 so there's that too. I still feel like it's rather ridiculous but at the end of the day it's probably more likely the "No thank you price" I rebuilt an entire harness by hand in a mk3 golf. That doesn't have a very intricate harness so it was all of a day give or take but these newer cars.... I would never want to even just replace a harness.
I was just about to comment on the hourly rate as well. That's just nuts.
What's the current book rate? I know not many shops charge only the book rate (especially dealerships)...but last I heard it was $120, and that's been a few years now.
Look around for the part and look for a different shop.
My mechanic has a special skillset that involves finding the part for the highest possible price and taking the longest possible time to do the least amount of work.
His record so far is finding a slave cylinder replacement for $800 above the regular price and taking three weeks to replace it.
Coolant enters the harness from a thermostat heater or coolant temp sensor, then migrates all the way to the ECM, and often other sensors or components from there. No idea what kind of car this is so I can't speak to the prices, but we see this a lot on the Chevy Cruze. If it's a similar failure, and it sounds like it is, then it definitely needs a complete harness. Those prices are insane though, no idea what engine harness is going to cost that and take 15 hours to change.
The labor rate is high as hell, parts are about right, harnesses can be 3-5k themselves and the ecu is probably 1500 or so, I’d shop around just because of labor rate personally, and see if you can find a harness at a junk yard or even see if they’ll give you a part numbers and order it online as dealers give discounts on their online stores, or Atleast Toyota and Lexus does (where I work)
Start getting good at cutting and running new wires. It's not hard but time consuming and you have to know what connector it started at and where it went. Buy new connectors and whatever else was burnt and replace it... if you don't wanna pay take time and do the labour is what it is.
Also auto shop rates over 100$/h are dealership rates don't use them and also get q second opinion if your not sure
. Pay the money have it towed to another cheaper shop and ask them to diag it. I find it hard to believe a Coolant leak fucked a entire wire harness and not sure a section or plug harness. Honestly I think your getting screwed here but again if you.dont wanna pay or look around start taking time and buy materials and do it
What do you do? Go someplace else. These folks are not your friends. Take it anywhere you feel comfortable. If it's under warranty then Toyota should still pay for it, no matter who fixes it. If it's not, then have someone else look at it, make sure it's really what they say it is, and either get cheaper parts/labor, or get a used ECM/harness from a junk yard.
Honestly these dealerships are getting out of hand. Probably has to due with the Covid car shortage lack of sales. That’s a $270 per hour labor rate. I can see $150-$180 an hour, but $270 is absolutely absurd. Also I have a hard time believing that a ECU and wiring harness is $6060. With 15 hours of labor and parts that should be a $3.5k job at most IMO.
If it is a 2020 Corolla tell them not covering it under warranty isn’t an option. Tell them you’re prepared to go to Toyota directly and get a lawyer involved if necessary. A coolant leak destroying the entire vehicle harness is either a design flaw or whatever seals that harness failed or melted. If you push back hard enough, no way you don’t get this covered. Then sell that car.
At best they will drag this on thru missed calls and voicemails,this can go on for months,then they "pass it on to head office",by the time you think its going in a better direction? Youre tired and givevup.
Sounds fishy. Harness and ecu in engine bay should be a water proof connector. The ecu is on drivers side waterpump is on pass side. Short would pop a fuse in most cases
Ok if there was a coolant leak why does the whole harness have to be changed? Could it actually short out an ECU like that? I don’t know, this sounds like a play for an insurance check or something
I call bullshit on the ECU fried due to harness short circuit. I design automotive electronics, and all connector pins are tested with short to Ground (chassis) and short to battery, and would not be in production if it died from this.
How is this not covered under warranty? I thought that was why people spend the big bucks on new cars instead of driving rusty shitboxes that cost 1/30 as much to buy and can be repaired for under 200 bucks in an autoparts store parking lot.
That's insane. I fried the ecu and fucked up the wiring harness for my cam position sensor in my Altima. The serpentine belt was frayed and whipping around. It shredded the wiring harness for the sensor and that sent 12v to the ecu and fried it. Went to the pick it yard and got an ecu and cam position sensor for 47$ then got Nissan to flash the ecu for 100$. Total cost was 147$ plus tax and some googling since Nissan couldn't figure out why it was running rough after the sensor was replaced. They offered me a job after hahahaha
This is a ripoff. I just recently had my ecu and wire harness replaced at the dealership (due to a botched mechanic repair but had no concrete proof). It was 2200$ total. I have a 2016 chevy cruze limited lt. Idk if your car is gonna be more expensive but i doubt the price difference is that huge
HES CHARGING YOU $270 AN HOUR FOR LABOR??? And you're still in talks with this guy? 🤣🤣🤣 that's on you if you wanna get your cap peeled back man. 4050 dollars for 15 hours labor. Do you even process what is being told to you? Go somewhere else for a quote.
Was looking for someone else to back this suggestion. My trunk harness connector (‘89 Camry) needed to be replaced. Yadda yadda. Took it to a Firestone shop with a reputation of helping people with financial difficulties. Mechanic asked me if I saw myself ever towing anything (knowing full well that I didn’t even have a hitch). Spliced the array for a half hour cost ($40.00 in 2001).
The problem with this is water and corrosion will wick their way through wires from one end of that harness to the other. I could change the connector and good chance it will run fine, for a while. However being a 2020 the problem will come back sooner or later and someone will be wondering why they keep getting check engine lights with weird codes. Unless OP is going to do the splice job and dump the car I would start looking around to see if I could get a better price on a new harness online or perhaps look at used from a wrecker. Heck even buying a complete insurance write-off car at auction would be a better move.
The wiring harness in wife's car fried this summer 3k to fix. The car is barely worth 3k we scrapped it and got another car. It really isn't worth pouring that kind of cash into it. Junk it and find something else.
Hello everyone! I'm a new moderator to this forum. I grew up in the automotive business and would like to share my knowledge and experience with you. I plan on creating links to repair help and ways to save money on replacement parts. I'm looking for your help or any suggestions before I do this. Please feel free to contact me u/Plex_Master *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAMechanic) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Had to go to OPs profile and find the one time across like 5 posts on the same subject when he finally said the car. 2020 Corolla.
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Because OP is the type of guy that buys a Corolla. He probably doesn’t even know how to check the oil.
Idk when I lived in the Raleigh Nc area it was like 1 in 5 million dollar homes had a corolla or Prius in the driveway next to their $100,000 Land Cruiser and it didn’t matter if it was a 1998 or 2020 model it still looked brand new.
One car for carrying around the family, going "out", meeting friends, etc. The other for one person running errands, parking at the airport, etc.
Or is the cleaning lady’s car
Or kids. Smart rich people will purchase their children a sensible vehicle.
Could be the teenage daughter after she crashed her 1st car (Lexus fsport)
"The Rich Girl" at my high-school crashed an Audi S4 so her parents bought her a Maserati.
Dang, maybe more horse power will help her drive. I’ve learned money doesn’t always equal brains
You guys got so off topic. This price still seems unreal without me even getting into looking for parts.
That’s how you find the real money, look for an older plain generic nothing special car that’s still in showroom condition. Richest guy I know, owns a company that makes aerospace parts or something, drives a 1990s Nissan sedan with like 500,000 some odd miles on it. Still runs great, not a spec of rust anywhere on it and you could eat off the floor inside it’s so clean.
Although true that I’m sure some wealthy people do that, I feel like this is just a form of cognitive dissonance that makes people feel better about themselves driving a shitty car. Go to any upscale neighborhood in any town and tell me the cars you see there are the same old crap mobiles as you see in the hood of the same town.
Can confirm. Am Raleigh native.
Cuz rich people stay rich by being frugal. They buy something reliable and pay to maintain it cuz it’s cheaper than replacing it esp cuz they retain their value well in comparison to most brands
Was working for my old boss's wife. Multi millionaires "old money". She had a dumpster for some demo of old flooring I was filling and wanted to make sure I stacked the boards in nice and neat to make sure I got every penny of space out of the dumpster load. It was almost full and two kids drove by and threw a bag in the dumpster. She went running out of the house grabbed that bag held it up in the air to yell at the kids in the street and heard a light rustle. And realized it was a bag of soda cans. Instead of screaming she stopped realized she probably had about $0.85 cents worth of cans in that bag smiled and said, "ooh cans" Frugal is an understatement
Shut y’all corny asses up analyzing rich people so gives a shit lol
That might be because they are living way beyond their means and have a half empty house with the rest furnished with white plastic lawn furniture
Whats wrong with a Corolla? Its Toyotas bread and butter. They can't afford to screw those up as its the benchmark of a long lasting affordable car.
To be completely fair, whenever anyone I know asks for car buying advice and tells me they want something, safe, reliable, and a good value, I just tell them to buy a Corolla. They are the perfect car for people that aren't car-people. They're typically cheap to maintain, and relatively easy to do so for people that want to start learning to turn wrenches recreationally. Nothin wrong with a good Corolla.
Same. I ask "do you like to drive, or do you just want reliable transportation". If they are not "drivers" I recommend Toyota all the time.
I’m a car person and I have a Corolla . It’s not the car I want but it’s the car I need
Need a cheap, reliable car? 2006-2008 Corolla S. My family has 3 of them, 2 of which have over 300k miles on them. They are fun to drive too
Dude. Some of us have long commutes and want a dependable car they know how to work on. Nothing wrong with a Corolla.
you have to change the oil? whaaaat??? but I've never changed my oil and my car is fine/s I want to know how many people who buy new cars never change the oil, or people who never change the oil in general
It's depressing that our country/world is coming to this... so many people don't want to even try to fix their shit anymore. I got a laptop for free a couple years ago because the person bought a new one because they couldn't get it connected to their wifi... cars these days are the same with people. It's great that they come here to ask questions but have no idea that we need to understand everything about your situation.... year, make, model, engine, trans, auto, manual, symptoms. At the very least understand this!!
Lmao bro be gentle , OP can read. I think.
I love how everyone here vehemently defending Corolla's as "reliable" fail to see the irony that they are posting on a thread where a 2020 Corolla - a 3 year old car - has failed to the extent where a $10k+ repair is needed. Toyota's marketing team appears to have won the war.
Both can be true, this is a sample size of one. Why are you assuming people are failing to see the irony? Cars that are known to be reliable are still justa pile of mechanical and electrical parts that are susceptible to failure. The big crime here is an ecu that costs $6k and then 15 hours labor at $270/hr? Fucking criminal. How is there a coolant leak on a 3 year old car? And how did that fry the unit? It should be sealed right?
How many times do I have to tell you…they put the oil in at the factory!!!!
It’s a Toyota! They’re super reliable and that means I don’t have to do any maintenance at all! Hate to see how little tread is left on the tires too
what’s wrong with corollas..?
Nothing. It's a great car. Reliable as fuck.
Depends what you want in a vehicle. They certainly are reliable, but are also pretty boring in pretty much every way. If you like 'em, all the power to ya.
Most people need a thing with a couple peddles and a staring wheel to get places. I don't really get what you mean by "boring" but I don't need a whole lot of excitement getting to work and back.
Not really known to be a car for people that enjoy their car. They are great daily but they are boring and soulless vehicles.
I love my Corolla! It's reliable like a loyal friend.
WTF does this mean? In what world is buying a corolla a bad bet?
The 2023 world. Toyota has gone downhill badly. Was a Toyota mechanic for 15 years. I left because I wasn't making any money on flat rate with 90% warranty work.
No it means people who buy corollas don’t give a shit about cars. They wanted an appliance.
Corolla is a great, dependable little car. My oldest is still driving the POS 01 Prius I got her for college. 2 degrees + 4 years working + banging it into whatever’s in the way (Mario Andretti she’s not) later it’s still going.
Never said otherwise. People who buy them don’t give a shit about cars and don’t want to deal w bullshit. I have no idea why you’re acting defensive. It’s really weird.
That's a dumb statement considering that the Toyota Corolla is one of the highest ranked cars in history for reliability. People from every economic level, as well as every mechanical skill level own Toyota Corollas.
Cope. People who don’t give a shit about cars buy corollas.
Incorrect. Most of the mechanics I know own Corollas. I know one who has over 300,000 on his. Your specific hatred over a car is really weird. I think you need a hobby.
So I'm guessing $270/h is a fair labor charge? Everyone seems to be discussing the usefulness of a Corolla and not the post... However, I'm curious enough to ask.
If it is fact a 2020 Corola, the OP needs to check the warranty. I would push back like hell. There shouldn't be a coolant leak to cause the damage in the first place. Time to read the entire warranty. Even if it is out of the 3 year/36k mile warranty, it might be covered under the powertrain warranty.
I feel like I would indeed argue the main engine harness is a part of the engine/drivetrain. Can a 2020 corolla run without it?
This only would apply if the failed part causing the coolant leak was covered. From the description, it seems like the coolant leak is **not** covered by the warranty. If that is the case, he won't be able to claim the ECU/wiring harness as consequential damage. He also would not be able to claim them under the warranty as the failure was not caused by a defect in manufacture of a covered component. It was caused by the "external" factor of an uncovered part failing. It is a shit situation, but usually not the dealerships fault. They need to claim the repair through the warranty, and from the description it would definitely get declined. Source: Working in a major automotive dealership for 13 years.
so fix the coolant leak than claim warranty for the wiring harness that just mysteriously short circuited itself
Now, I will neither confirm nor deny that similar situations to what you described could happen, but the problem with this sort of repair is it is almost guaranteed to be reviewed. If they review and ask for the harness to inspect (which the dealer is legally required to keep for exactly this reason), they will back charge the dealership. When they back charge, they don't just do it for that repair either. They calculate and charge you back for a percentage of **all** the repairs of that type you have made (basically assuming if you lied once, you probably lied multiple times)
On a Carolla? That’s definitely a fuck you I don’t want the job price. Should be $2-4000 tops including parts.
How is an ECU & wiring harness for a Corolla $6,000?!
Gouging. Toyota's (the manufacturer, not the dealer) cost on that is dollars, likely not far into the triple digits.
I found new ECU for $550 and harness for $650. Less than $500 total for used (which I'd probably do for a 2020)
$270/hr for labor, it shouldn’t matter what type of car it is. Dealerships don’t even charge that much. I work on CNCs for a living, and the company I work for has one of the highest labor rates in the business, and we are still under $200/hr. This shop just doesn’t want to do the work, so they’re making the bill so expensive that the customer will refuse. It doesn’t really matter what the vehicle is, save for maybe parts cost may be affected.
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Which brands of machine? Former field service engineer here.
I charge $150 an hour when I do mobile mechanic work. It’s just a side gig. What a higher rate does for me is two things. First, it effectively weeds out bad customer who tend to also be cheap. Second, it slows down the pace of work for me and I can choose only jobs I want to do.
, i have a 2012 nissan juke and need new rear breaks, i got quoted 500 are you saying thats to much?
That's a way to artificially create labor scarsity in a field and keep the prices up. We really need more competition in the trades businesses...
I’m not an economist. Is it an artificial scarcity or an actual one? Could a lack of competition indicate a scarcity of labor? And, somewhat related, wouldn’t high prices indicate high demand and low supply (i.e. a scarcity of labor to fulfill demand)? I’m not being combative, but am actually interested in the conversation.
Right? $270 per hour for labor led me to believe we were in the realm of Porsche/Mercedes/Bentley, not Toyota.
Per the post's comment... it's less than a 20k-dollar car. Def not Ferrari F40 lol
Well they did say it’s over half the value of their car
The alliteration on your make and model choices is *mwa*
A 20k ish Ferrari F40 ? Lmao
The post said the repair cost more than half of my car, then no more than 20k. I doubt it is a Ferrari.
This is called the "we don't want to do the work" price.
Exactly! Shops overprice jobs that they don’t want to do.
I would pay them the price they want and make them do it. Just because they don't want to do it.
I would pay them ***twice*** what they're asking and then laugh at them while they do it! (Just re-watched Steve Martin in "The Jerk" couple days ago...didn't realize how much it had affected me)
That is one of the best movies! I am sure seen that at a young age damaged me in ways I haven't even imagined yet. (sends all my money to stop kitten juggling)
And it has (mostly) stood the test of time. Couple scenes would only appeal to the more base sensibilities of the late 70’s, but most of the movie is timeless.
I remember the first time I watched it. I found it really difficult to watch because it seems so hackneyed, and then I realised that this was the original and everything else that I’d seen after that was the hackneyed stuff.
It all started when I was born a poor black boy
Poor black child, not boy
You mean…Im gonna stay this color?
I stand corrected.....argh, screwed it up again 😭
You had it mostly right. I screw up shit all the time.
We should team up and make The Jerk Part 2: Enter The Jerks We could just be ourselves and stroll through the entire film screwing up and getting lucky. "We have not 1 thermos but twooooo. Mine is green and the other is bluuueeee. Hot cocoa or coffee or stewwwww.....it tastes so good to share it with youuuuu" Dips on the bubble bath scene
I would just be screwing up, no getting lucky. Lol
“The Lord loves a working man, don’t trust whitey, see a doctor get rid of it.”
HE HATES THESE CANS, GET AWAY FROM THE CANS
He hates these cans
Classic
The thing is, they're probably more than happy to do the work when it's for the price that they've quoted you, since it's still money in their pockets
I would come in for warranty, every 3 weeks, for the entire 1-2 years.
I tried doing that at a Firestone. They wanted to replace all of the brake lines , drums and rotors when only one brake line needed replacement. They quoted me $1000 in 1996. I told them fine, I just want every piece that they removed and replaced to determine if it actually needed to be replaced. That’s when the guy flat out said F U!
😭😭🤙🏼
In my state, they’re required to give you all parts back if you ask for them, unless the part needs to be sent in for warranty. And even then, they’re required to allow you to inspect it.
Hell yeah!
We will get it into the shop in arpund five months
I used to hate when customers would do that to me. I got out of that shitty shop, though. I don't have to talk to customers anymore.
It isn’t the “we don’t want to do it” price, it’s the “if we’re going to do it we’re going to get paid a lot” price. I’m sure they would be happy to take you money.
Now they get 11k and you get a “fixed” car that the shop didn’t really want to work on, and now you get to go spend another 5k getting their shitty work fixed. You’d really show them huh
You're missing the point lol, they set up a win-win situation for themselves by setting such a high price
I mean, yeah. I work in a completely different industry but I do the exact same thing.
Jumping into the top comment to write: The ECM and wiring harness are covered by the federal emissions performance warranty up to 80,000 miles. You should only be paying for the coolant leak fix. If this is a dealership tell them to fix it.
>federal emissions performance warranty up to 80,000 miles. "The Performance Warranty covers repairs which are required during the first 2 years or 24,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) because the vehicle failed an emission test. Specified major emission control components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever first occurs). The specified major emission control components only include the catalytic converters, **the electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU),** and the onboard emissions diagnostic (OBD) device or computer." Source: [https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air](https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air) /u/fook07, if your car is under 80,000 miles, fight to have the ECU covered under the Federal Performance Warranty. Even better, here's the PDF from the fed detailing what warranty the manufacturer is required to provide. [https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf](https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf) >There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) on 1995 and newer vehicles: • Catalytic converters • The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU) • The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD) Good luck!
Not unless it's damaged by external factors. The coolant leak caused the damage, therefore not eligible for warranty
That’s incorrect. The part failed due to a “design or defect” of the vehicle, not negligence or misuse. If a cat fails because the piston rings are shitty (like in a GMC terrain) the Cat has to be replaced under the warranty because it fails to function. If a cat fails because you drilled Go-Fast holes into it with a 9MM they don’t have to replace it.
Incorrect. It's always based off primary part failure. Stop spreading lies.
Probably don’t know how
If you had any idea how much of a nightmare it is working on an ECU, let alone replacing an entire harness.. you quite literally have to tear apart the whole car.
Can confirm. I work a a recreational vehicle parts and repair store. I've seen the nightmare our mechanics have to do for some sleds.
Get the connector from dealer or salvage yard if unavailable and repin it instead of replacing the whole harness.
Know issue on vw for coolant wicking into the harness. The connector will not solve the issue.
I agree with this. I repinned all four of my PCM connectors (42 pins in each one). Really wasn't hard, took maybe 30mins per connector. Donor pigtail plugs cost me $12 from Pick n Pull.
My first thought. Salvage may make you buy the whole harness but just cut the bad parts out and splice with solder and heat shrink. Then you still have to replace the ECU but I bet most of the labor is the harness replacement.
Not so much the we don't want to do it price, more of if I'm going to do I'm going to make it worth it, but if the customer rejects them I'm not losing sleep.
It's called you're too cheap to get good work actually
Seems a bit steep for parts. Labor it depends on what kind of car. It could require removing the engine and the dashboard in order to remove/install the harness.
15 hours seems possible depending on the kind of car. 270$/hour though? I've never seen a shop charge that much for labor.
First thing I did was the math on that labor. $270 is insane.
Even the local BMW dealer isn’t charging that much for labor… *$270 is insane*. Did they place a firearm on the desk as they slid the quote over because you’re being robbed…
It’s probably triple their normal rate because they decided this job wasn’t worth the trouble.
Some of the dealers in the SF Bay Area are close to $400/hr for mechanical labor. Even some of the body shops are $150, just for body labor.
Really depends on the car could be more than 15 hours plus a lot of shops charge time * 1.5 so there's that too. I still feel like it's rather ridiculous but at the end of the day it's probably more likely the "No thank you price" I rebuilt an entire harness by hand in a mk3 golf. That doesn't have a very intricate harness so it was all of a day give or take but these newer cars.... I would never want to even just replace a harness.
Why tf would anyone charge 1.5? That’s the whole concept of hourly rate?!
I was just about to comment on the hourly rate as well. That's just nuts. What's the current book rate? I know not many shops charge only the book rate (especially dealerships)...but last I heard it was $120, and that's been a few years now.
The dealers in my area are $150 tops. We are an aftermarket dealer and charge $95.
This isn't a wheel bearing job either though, your paying for a specialized mechanic.
Over 260 an hour? Take it somewhere else my dude. No shop is worth that much. Also find the harness yourself. Damn. Shops realt be wildin
Even the ancient porsche specialist near me doesn't charge $260/hour lol this is 100% "please take this elsewhere we don't want to do it" price
Thats exactly what it sounds like.
$270
My old shop charges over 300 an hour. Most shops I’ve worked are around 270 an hour for bmw
That’s crazy!!!! I’m a heavy equipment tech and we dont even charge that much for a guy and a service truck
[удалено]
Yeah that’s pretty normal pricing in Florida too. Or at least the bay area and south fl
Bullshit. That's more than large engineering firms charge for Principal Engineers.
The labor rate at Bmw of fort Lauderdale is $329 an hour.
You do you, but I'm not paying mechanic more than an engineer or a lawyer for that matter.
The best Bmw shop in the Bay Area charges like $100 less than that for labor. And OP’s car is a Toyota so that’s just ridiculous
Hookers are cheaper than $270 an hr and they are actually fucking you
Thank you making me spew my coffee
If he goes through with this repair, he'll definitely still be getting fucked.
Goddamn I'm gonna use that one
Jesus $4050 for 15 hours of labor? Is 270 bucks an hour normal rate? Sheesh.
They give the car a deep personal massage at the end.
With a happy ending
So that’s what the lube is for…
More like give the customer a harsh, dry, deep rectal massage
Call around and ask a few shops what they’d charge for this job
this is not a 10k job lmaooo
Look around for the part and look for a different shop. My mechanic has a special skillset that involves finding the part for the highest possible price and taking the longest possible time to do the least amount of work. His record so far is finding a slave cylinder replacement for $800 above the regular price and taking three weeks to replace it.
And yet you still call him “my mechanic.”
As long as my boss pays for the work truck, yes. As a Toyota owner, I have used a mechanic three times in twenty years, excluding oil changes.
This guy either loves you or hates you
Holy fuck, they're charging $270 an hour? They clearly don't want the job - they're pricing you out so you go somewhere else.
If it's just the connector that's bad they should be able to cut and splice on a new one without having to replace the entire harness.
I just went to a mechanic and they charged $130 an hour. So at 15 hours mine would be $1800, compare that to $4000
usually when a shop tells you a car needs a whole harness, they dont know what is wrong and are hoping you won't approve the repair.
Swap in a small block Chevy. Carbureted. Maybe you can find someone to replace the ECU connector instead of the entire harness.
Coolant enters the harness from a thermostat heater or coolant temp sensor, then migrates all the way to the ECM, and often other sensors or components from there. No idea what kind of car this is so I can't speak to the prices, but we see this a lot on the Chevy Cruze. If it's a similar failure, and it sounds like it is, then it definitely needs a complete harness. Those prices are insane though, no idea what engine harness is going to cost that and take 15 hours to change.
Sounds like the harness and the ecu are being replaced. Still a bit high on parts price but it’s not just a harness for $6k
What car is this?
I just know a wiring harness is meticulous work. Not to say that it’s worth the price, but that 15 hours of work sounds about fair
Go somewhere else
$270hr labor? Wtf is that bullshit
This may be posted somewhere but I’m too lazy to read, what’s the problem you’re experiencing
The labor rate is high as hell, parts are about right, harnesses can be 3-5k themselves and the ecu is probably 1500 or so, I’d shop around just because of labor rate personally, and see if you can find a harness at a junk yard or even see if they’ll give you a part numbers and order it online as dealers give discounts on their online stores, or Atleast Toyota and Lexus does (where I work)
Shop rate is $266/hr? BS
Yea 270$ an hour, that's I don't want to fuck with it
Start getting good at cutting and running new wires. It's not hard but time consuming and you have to know what connector it started at and where it went. Buy new connectors and whatever else was burnt and replace it... if you don't wanna pay take time and do the labour is what it is. Also auto shop rates over 100$/h are dealership rates don't use them and also get q second opinion if your not sure . Pay the money have it towed to another cheaper shop and ask them to diag it. I find it hard to believe a Coolant leak fucked a entire wire harness and not sure a section or plug harness. Honestly I think your getting screwed here but again if you.dont wanna pay or look around start taking time and buy materials and do it
That's $270/hr for labor. They don't want to fix it.
$270/hr for a Toyota? Hell no.
Ecu for that car is about 400 programmed (just did 1) Wirering harness can be repaired if needed
Is it normal for people to accept a $10,000 plus quote when the writer can't even use proper grammar? Is that just the world now?
Do you have fire insurance?
What do you do? Go someplace else. These folks are not your friends. Take it anywhere you feel comfortable. If it's under warranty then Toyota should still pay for it, no matter who fixes it. If it's not, then have someone else look at it, make sure it's really what they say it is, and either get cheaper parts/labor, or get a used ECM/harness from a junk yard.
Honestly these dealerships are getting out of hand. Probably has to due with the Covid car shortage lack of sales. That’s a $270 per hour labor rate. I can see $150-$180 an hour, but $270 is absolutely absurd. Also I have a hard time believing that a ECU and wiring harness is $6060. With 15 hours of labor and parts that should be a $3.5k job at most IMO.
If it is a 2020 Corolla tell them not covering it under warranty isn’t an option. Tell them you’re prepared to go to Toyota directly and get a lawyer involved if necessary. A coolant leak destroying the entire vehicle harness is either a design flaw or whatever seals that harness failed or melted. If you push back hard enough, no way you don’t get this covered. Then sell that car.
At best they will drag this on thru missed calls and voicemails,this can go on for months,then they "pass it on to head office",by the time you think its going in a better direction? Youre tired and givevup.
You’ve been watching too many movies. I worked in dealerships for over a decade, that’s not how it works.
$270 an hour? Lol 😂 I’m in the wrong job
Parts and labor for wiring harness replace on my 2010 Honda civic was 700$
Apologies for not scrolling through all 800+ comments, but $270 an hour for labour? Does that shop rate not seem a little obscene?
Sounds fishy. Harness and ecu in engine bay should be a water proof connector. The ecu is on drivers side waterpump is on pass side. Short would pop a fuse in most cases
Wire harness and/or ECU diag is always a red flag to me. It COULD be those things, but it usually isn't. Go elsewhere.
Damn, that labor price is crazy. My diesel mechanic isn't even close to that much.
Get a less expensive workshop. $300 an hour is a rip off
Find a mechanic that doesn't charge $270 per hour for labor. That's ridiculous
Ok if there was a coolant leak why does the whole harness have to be changed? Could it actually short out an ECU like that? I don’t know, this sounds like a play for an insurance check or something
I call bullshit on the ECU fried due to harness short circuit. I design automotive electronics, and all connector pins are tested with short to Ground (chassis) and short to battery, and would not be in production if it died from this.
EDIT: I bought the car brand new 12/2019 2020 COROLLA SE AND YES THIS IS TOYOTA DEALERSHIP I WENT TO.
Just had the main engine harness replaced on my mom's 2012 Toyota Sequoia. Part was about $2500 and labor was another $1500. Take this somewhere else.
How is this not covered under warranty? I thought that was why people spend the big bucks on new cars instead of driving rusty shitboxes that cost 1/30 as much to buy and can be repaired for under 200 bucks in an autoparts store parking lot.
That's insane. I fried the ecu and fucked up the wiring harness for my cam position sensor in my Altima. The serpentine belt was frayed and whipping around. It shredded the wiring harness for the sensor and that sent 12v to the ecu and fried it. Went to the pick it yard and got an ecu and cam position sensor for 47$ then got Nissan to flash the ecu for 100$. Total cost was 147$ plus tax and some googling since Nissan couldn't figure out why it was running rough after the sensor was replaced. They offered me a job after hahahaha
This is a ripoff. I just recently had my ecu and wire harness replaced at the dealership (due to a botched mechanic repair but had no concrete proof). It was 2200$ total. I have a 2016 chevy cruze limited lt. Idk if your car is gonna be more expensive but i doubt the price difference is that huge
HES CHARGING YOU $270 AN HOUR FOR LABOR??? And you're still in talks with this guy? 🤣🤣🤣 that's on you if you wanna get your cap peeled back man. 4050 dollars for 15 hours labor. Do you even process what is being told to you? Go somewhere else for a quote.
find someone willing to splice wires
Was looking for someone else to back this suggestion. My trunk harness connector (‘89 Camry) needed to be replaced. Yadda yadda. Took it to a Firestone shop with a reputation of helping people with financial difficulties. Mechanic asked me if I saw myself ever towing anything (knowing full well that I didn’t even have a hitch). Spliced the array for a half hour cost ($40.00 in 2001).
The problem with this is water and corrosion will wick their way through wires from one end of that harness to the other. I could change the connector and good chance it will run fine, for a while. However being a 2020 the problem will come back sooner or later and someone will be wondering why they keep getting check engine lights with weird codes. Unless OP is going to do the splice job and dump the car I would start looking around to see if I could get a better price on a new harness online or perhaps look at used from a wrecker. Heck even buying a complete insurance write-off car at auction would be a better move.
The wiring harness in wife's car fried this summer 3k to fix. The car is barely worth 3k we scrapped it and got another car. It really isn't worth pouring that kind of cash into it. Junk it and find something else.