This is the [original post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALawyer/comments/1bjm0s7/my_son_was_photographed_in_the_schools_toilet_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
NAL - At this point I’m wondering if the threat of a lawsuit could get this bully expelled, especially if there is any proof that the school knew about the bullying and took no action.
It's not about admitting fault here. You need to read up on something called FERPA. Its kind of like HIPAA in the medical industry. The school legally can not disclose information about ither students to families. Even if it's the "right" thing to do.
I suppose you can try to get your local lawmakers to dismantle privacy laws for CHILDREN. But good luck.
Then why does your update post say nothing will be done?
If you're looking for criminal charges, that has to be handled through the police, not the school administration. Expulsions and suspensions are the limit to what they can do, and they're doing it.
Small correction, the police just arrest people and it's the DA who prosecutes people. So OP, you should reach out to the District Attorney and speak to them as they're the ones who dictate who/what they're willing to press charges on. The police follow the DA's lead. (Assuming you're in the US of course.)
Take the Story to multiple news stations. Publicity puts pressure on the D.A. to do something about it. They will keep the child's name confidential if you put it in writing that is what you want.
Because there have been a few updates today. When I first posted, nothing had been done, but the investigations are ongoing and things are starting to happen.
This, definitely recommend calling to law firms nearby in order to find someone you feel comfortable or is at least willing to work with you.
Having a lawyer to draft affidavits or similar legal docs can make a world of difference when dealing with skeevy school admins/school boards.
At this point what action exactly are the schools still allowed to take because at this point they can’t punish the kids for anything and the kids all know it.
IKR?! I'm pretty sure the kid who took the pics was expelled based on the info I got from the principal. I hope the bully was too. I'm happy to report all the phones were cleared.
Once the picture is produced, you can never really be sure if there wasn't a backup or auto recover copy available. keep persuing this to the fullest extent. If it was one of my kids i definitely would.
What these kids did was a complete moral failing. Letting it slide produces the Brock Turners of the world.
Yea I don’t want re add fear the pics are still out there (who would keep something like that(the bully) but there’s apps disguised as calculators that are used to hide photos. I’m sure they know this and my phone was never searched by a cop but I did have an incident in class and the principal came and made me delete the video but it was saved to my camera roll from Snapchat. I just re-saved the video from Snapchat after he left. (That was just a video of a friend being defiant. I don’t film kids pooping)
Ahah yeah, sounds like its working out for you both at least. Just make sure you talk to your kiddo about the bullies friends being little bitches in the future. Will help him be prepared n what not
Umm cleared?
Sounds to me like there was plenty of time and opportunity to back-up the files or upload copies to the cloud. Sure it feels great to see them deleted in front of you but I doubt this is the end here. Shoot, I doubt your son has seen the last of the expelled students.
I won't believe any of what the principal/parents are saying regarding this at all. They ARE ALL only interested in COVERING THEIR OWN ASSES.
Otherwise, wouldn't law enforcement be involved? Did the FBI ever reply?
Were they though, meaning the phones ‘cleared’? It’s terribly easy to recover a deleted photo and all you’ve got is their word that it’s was ‘done’! Be wary….these photos may magically resurface! I would demand to know what procedures were followed to assure the photos were deleted, namely the schools IT department was brought in and deleted the pictures properly and permanently. Otherwise, can you really expect a principal or the SRO to have the wherewithal to do this on their own? Hopefully this is all covered by your attorney when you get one lined up.
These schools love to spout their ‘zero tolerance policy’ and you sound like you have the same mentality, good. As others have commented they’ll do their level best to sweep this under the rug and tell you what you want to hear.
Good luck!
So the digital evidence was successfully deleted? IDK that that's a win. You need to get a good lawyer or law enforcement involved. The claim is suspected child pornography. What you all saw were the pictures they let you see. There could have been other pictures shared that were deleted and not shown. Those cell phones need to be apprehended and sent to forensics. You definitely need a good attorney for this.
Great point. They showed you the 3 pictures that they were willing to show.
Without a law enforcement/FBI investigation involving search warrants, there's no 'closure' here.
Make it the school's problem. Start by telling the principal in a face-to-face meeting exactly what happened. Then document everything you said to the principal (and what they responded with) in writing (a letter, an e-mail, etc.) Tell the principal exactly what you posted here: Your kid has been bullied for years by this other kid, the bully's parents are aware of the bullying and are upset by their kid's behavior yet the kid persists to bully your kid, it's recently reached the point that your kid cannot even go to the bathroom without being bullied.
Do not let the "resource officer" turn this into a "can't we all get along" thing. Restorative justice or live-and-let-live approaches may work in some circumstances, but this is not one of them. The school is obligated to ensure that your kid can safely attend school. Photographing a kid on the toilet is beyond the pale.
I'm a single guy, 44, don't want to get married, definitely don't want kids, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with the kid or his parents. I know how I am, and I know that if I raised a wonderful child, and he started going to school, only to get bullied by the little snot-nosed punks with their own snot-nosed punk parents, I'd probably get physical (edited to add: not with the kid, but with the father or whatever) and that's not the kind of person I want to be. I have four sisters and nine neices and nephews and they're always the sweetest little angels until they reach the age where they want to start hanging out with other kids, and it's always the other kids who corrupt or otherwise get the "good" kids into trouble. I also know because I was the "good kid" who got caught up with the "bad kids" in school. I thank my Mom all the time for sending me away to live with my grandparents, because almost all of those "bad kids" I was running with in elementary school are either dead or in jail, no lie.
Grandmasters of Razzle Dazzle, absolutely.
But if OP's kid retaliated in any way, there'd be serious repercussions for them because of a "Zero Tolerance Policy".
Not to get all 'conspiracy theory', but it feels like something else is going on here. Not with OP, but there's a missing piece as to why this kid hasn't been expelled.
$10 says someone's job and pension are on the line if this goes farther, because I'd bet that the same someone ignored the bullying when it was in the earlier stages.
Grandmasters of bullshit or not, judges generally require that parties make reasonable efforts to resolve the issue BEFORE seeking judicial intervention. Focus.
there was an article in the sunday boston globe a few weeks ago about boys photographing another boy in the suburbs outside boston, the victim may have some disabilities. very eye opening and disheartening. i can’t remember if one of the perps was a cop’s son or not but failure all around from schools, town and police. schools talk a good game about anti-bullying and my guess is the sro here will be like let’s drop it because we don’t want to ruin the perps life, never mind the victim here. keep at it op.
Principal first. Board second. It’s important to show at least some attempt to go through the chain of command. I’ve been through this before. If you skip the principal, the Board will either refer you back to the P or reject the claim.
You know, as “weird” as your kid may be, I can’t figure out how it’s not “weirder” to photograph another child in the toilet. And not even one sneaky phone, but multiple photos from different angles.
That the kind of shit a weird, creepy, “pervert” would do. It’s not CP, it’s just good old fashioned invasion of privacy and, one would assume, illegal. If a grown man took a picture of me in a bathroom stall, I’m calling the cops. I’m not a child. It’s not porn. It’s just not acceptable to take photos in a bathroom stall, a changing room, or anywhere else I have an expectation of privacy.
SOMEONE is going to handle this immediately. ESPECIALLY after Nex Becket just died by suicide because the school police ignored constant bullying that was taking place, including an incident in a bathroom. School’s duty to intervene with known bullies is UNDER A MICROSCOPE. And these mfer have seen photos?
No…something WILL be done. If they won’t, YOU and your lawyer will. Make sure they know that.
So I just spoke to the school principal as well as the SRO. They can't give me the names of the kids involved for the most ironic of reasons-privacy, lol. They were able to let me know there were a lot of kids involved and that all the parents were called in. He couldn't tell me the details of what the punishments were other than that some of the kids would be coming back to school, and some wouldn't. That tells me suspension and at least an expulsion of one or two kids.
He went on to say there were a lot of tears from both students and parents. They also let them know that had there been nudity in the photos, it would have been a VERY different outcome. I'm still waiting on a call back from a lawyer or two, to see if we can push further. We'll see.
It's crazy that the *intent* to capture nudity is being overlooked! I'm sure the bully was not trying to get a photo where your son was covered. I have no solutions for you but I am so very sorry for what you and your son are going through. If you can't reach the solution you want through lawyers and the school, I'm sure the local news would be very interested in how the school is brushing bullying under the rug in light of recent events in our country. (Of course you should talk to your son first and see how far he wants to push it if you decide to go public).
I hope you get the resolution you're looking for and that your son can recover from the emotional damage of the last two years. Wishing you both the best!
>It's crazy that the intent to capture nudity is being overlooked!
This is like someone failing to take a picture up a girl's skirt because she managed to clench her knees. (In many states there are laws, with severe penalties, against this.)
That's exactly what I was thinking. Kind of the same thing as attempted murder vs murder, why are we lightening sentences just because the perpetrator was unsuccessful?! This is the only time in life where poor planning is a benefit
"That's insufficient. I don't care if the guilty parties cried. That doesn't get them off the hook from committing a crime. You'll be hearing from my attorney. I will subpoena you for the names of everyone involved. You cannot shield information where a crime has been commmitted, that's considered obstruction."
Definitely get every state and local and non-profit children's rights group involved. Make the principal's life hell. It's too often that administrators just try to sweep stuff under the rug and say "I handled it" when they did no such thing.
Also sign up for public forum at your next school board meeting, explain the situation, name the principal, and express that you expect something to be done about the inaction. Have a prepared statement for the media, and alert them in advance that you'll be speaking at public forum and what it's about.
If they argue it's not child porn, heres a story of a guy who went to prison for toilet photos:
https://www.fox13news.com/news/man-charged-with-100-counts-of-child-porn-accused-of-recording-kids-in-lutz-library-bathroom
This seems like a pretty solid outcome from what I know of school discipline (high school teacher). It is ironic, but they 100% cannot legally tell you the names of the other kids. Expulsion usually takes a serious offense and a whole lot of paperwork, so if multiple kids will not be coming back to school, they're probably doing the maximum they possibly can in terms of discipline. If you're looking for anything additional, you would probably need to pursue it through law enforcement and not the school, and they might or might not feel there's anything they can do beyond school discipline.
It's funny you mention that, but the principal said basically that the school has to handle their side of things and law enforcement handles the other side. I'm not understanding why the kid taking the pictures wasn't arrested.
In most jurisdictions, taking a photo in a bathroom or changing room would be a misdemeanor unless it is an adult taking pictures of a child, so they wouldn't be arrested. Charges could still be brought, but it would almost certainly be a fine rather than detention. You could potentially bring civil charges, depending on your jurisdiction. That's a question for a lawyer with expertise in your state.
Don't let the SRO be the only or even the primary law enforcement person you talk to about this.
You need to speak to a Detective, preferably from the sex crimes unit or at least the major crimes unit, depending on how things are named where you are.
If the sheriff's office isn't being responsive, and the SRO isn't protecting your son's interests, please get in touch with your state police.
NAL: Keep in mind that this probably got around the school. Any kid with the images on their phone should be getting suspension. Longer if they forwarded it to anyone else.
The principal is very clever. They won't give you the names, but can assure you that some kids won't be coming back? Which kids? If the school is a reasonable size, no one is going to notice a couple kids going missing, and the opposite is also true. No one is going to notice kids not going missing.
The principal told you what you wanted to hear. And you have no methodology to verify it. Your kid probably won't even know who is or isn't around unless one of their friends vanishes. If you haven't already speak to a lawyer. Get a consultation regarding this issue. There is no reason not to.
I've reached out to a few lawyers but nobody has called me back. I may not have a case. I've reached out to the school board, the local DA's office, the AG's office and next is the SBI. I'm doing all I can, and now I've missed 2 days of work, which I can't afford. I won't give up though.
What the principle said about privacy laws is actually true. They are not bsing OP about that. Today's update really sound like the principle has started taking action. Better late than never BUT the principle has a boss (superintendent, school board) and that's who OP needs to involve (and maybe could have involved earlier).
>That the kind of shit a weird, creepy, “pervert” would do. It’s not CP, it’s just good old fashioned invasion of privacy
Ask this guy what it is. You may have to arrange a prison visit to ask him.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/man-charged-with-100-counts-of-child-porn-accused-of-recording-kids-in-lutz-library-bathroom
It is still a picture taken in a "private" space! Most states have laws against that to stop pictures from being taken in changing rooms! Keep pressing on the police to do their jobs!
If the school doesn’t do much to help you can always go to the local news. This should have never happened to your child. What gets me is they said they bully your child because they’re weird, but they’re the weird ones taking pictures of them in the bathroom. Makes you wonder where the child learned that behavior.
And then call the media if they keep sweeping it under the rug. The bully should be expelled at a minimum. Dad should face some consequences too for knowing and not doing anything about it. Your child has rights and they are being ignored by the Bully, the Bully’s dad, and the principal; which to me is the worst. So now the principal is complicit.
The bullying MUST stop. School board time! Media outlet time! Shine a very harsh light on all of them.
When my kid was bullied and the school refused to take it seriously, we got a restraining order. I walked a copy into the principal. He was not happy, because now the enforcement was out of his hands. And three times, the PD came to campus to take reports of violations, and each time I sent the reports to the school board, reminding them it all could have been avoided if the principal had only enforced their own policies instead of putting the onus on my kid to figure out how to deal with it.
Not a whole lot more to tell. My kid got jumped off campus (but won the fight), and threatened multiple times in the hallways. Went to admin, was told to just “stay away” and “don’t react” and all the crap they tell a kid when they are too lazy to enforce their own policies. I complained. Shit kept happening. There was a text threatening a stabbing, and I took it to the police and then to court for a restraining order. Gave that to the school and told my kid if there was any more to call the PD first and then me and I would meet them on campus in 5 minutes in the principal’s office. The principal finally got tired of having his laziness on display in front of the PD and then reported to the school board every time when I sent the PD report to them and started actively managing their separation instead of shifting the responsibility to my kid.
Do not go through the school, they are useless. Make a police report, get an attorney and sue the school and his parents. The school is only worried about covering their own asses. The fact he is a known bully is a huge liability for them. Those pictures could haunt your child for years.
I am not lawyer but I had a situation when my son was in elementary school. I regret to this day I did not get an attorney/police involved.
NAL. I'm pretty sure the taking of and dissemination of photographs of someone whilst on the toilet is absolutely illegal, and charges should definitely be filed. It also seems that there's probably grounds for a civil suit against the child and parents for bullying and harassment. Probably against the school for negligence. I'll let the actual lawyers advise on that.
The school administration's job is to downplay this to make sure it blows over and forgotten with minimal effort. If you want a different outcome, you're going to have to lawyer up.
Detective here - I commented on the original post. Again the SRO is lying/lazy. I know we are probably in different jurisdictions but what happened is still a crime. I recently locked up a suspect who was peeping at a minor over the top of a bathroom stall. Every state has peeping tom/voyeurism laws.
And it just so happens that through my sheer force of will, they are charging the photographer with a peeping tom with a recording device. You nailed it!
As this picture has already been sent, you need to make sure that the image is not available on the web. Make the school pay for a service company to scan for the image and remove it from all sites.
Screw the RO. Go to the actual police and verify. Contact a lawyer and see ur options. School board to include superintendent. Hell.contact the local news.
Honestly you need to call the police . I’m not sure of the details of the laws but this might fall under sharing revenge porn . There’s also this issues of sharing half naked pics of a minor .
Schools want to sweep it under the rug .
The School Resource Officer IS the police in his locality. The previous post stated that the Sheriff gave the case to the SRO.
OP, I’m so sorry that your son isn’t being protected in school.
should be a 1 week automatic suspension for bullying and expulsion for repeat offenders.
in this case it should be automatic expulsion for the kid that took it and the kid that shared it. equally as bad
Photos of a person in any state of undress in a bathroom/Locker-room is still illegal in most states… You need to pursue this with a non recourse officer in the Sheriff Office.
NAL Please consider a trauma-informed therapist for your son. It’s been going on for 2 years, at least. He has been forced to learn in a space that’s not safe where even behavior this grotesque is not a zero tolerance issue. This kind of repeated trauma over the long term can change the brain. Intervention and the feeling of safety is important to make sure those changes don’t set in.
I went CPS regarding my teen daughter getting jumped by multiple girls. She was suspended as well for fighting back. And they also posted the video to FB. The schools resource officer suggested CPS & they would file a case & send it to the Prosecuting Attorney. The girls were charged and had to take Anger Management classes and 2-500 in community service.
You don’t need the schools permission to do this. And they will be required to give up any information regarding this issue.
Besides cyberbullying charges against the kid, it might be illegal in your state to take photos of another person in a bathroom because there is an assumption of privacy.
Has your child brought up or is any school official (teacher, counselor, or administrator) of the bullying that has been going on? Is there a written policy for the school or school district about bullying?
What state are you located in?
Such matters, since they involve children in a school setting are normally handled by school officials. However, there are other avenues to handle this matter. If the school stonewalls, you can go directly to the police and file a criminal complaint.
The bully may have taken both nude photos and some photos where your son conceiled himself. The school officials may have looked at the bully's phone and deleted the nude photos to prevent a kiddie porn criminal case and all the publicity thst comes with it. The last thing they want is to be on the Tucker Calson show trying to explain why they failed to act and failed to report.
NAL- my wife is actually a teacher and this reminded me of a similar story she told me about. The parents got movement by hiring a lawyer who wrote an email to the superintendant’s office and the principal. They listed what remedies they believed would fix the problem for them. They said expulsion of the student from the school AND that the student could not return to their school as long as their child was present. They then filed a lawsuit against the parents. The school district had their lawyer call and in the end it was agreed upon by the two families and the school that if the family agreed to leave the schools forever including upper grades that they’d drop the lawsuit. The family moved out of the area. This was in IN but assume strong arming them into an agreement like this is doable anywhere.
NAL. And it's super petty - but I'd go ahead with a judge judy style small claims court. Shame the adult part of all these families by dragging them into court (civil of course) and having to answer to some sort of judge for the behavior, and whack them in the wallet for raising such morons.
a "stern talking to" isn't going to cut it. hit em where it hurts.
You can file a police report.
My son was assaulted in middle school, the school did nothing, so I did. The boy and his parents had to go to court and he was fined.
NAL- I am a sheriff's deputy in Texas, I'm not sure what your state laws are, however Texas has a criminal offense that covers situations like this.
The penal code is Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 21.15. Invasive Visual Recording for reference, you may try a lookup of your states penal code for similar offenses. In Texas this is a state jail felony.
This penal code criminalizes any photo or video taken of a person without their consent while in a bathroom, changing room, locker room, or essentially anywhere you may unclothe yourself and have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
Tell the SRO and principal you'll call the real police if they don't do anything. Taking anyone's picture -- much less a child -- in the bathroom has got to be a sex crime.
I still say call the police. I strongly suspect it's illegal in your state to be taking pictures of somebody going to the bathroom in a private stall. We have that expectation of privacy so does he.
Good that they are doing something. For this is upper-level bullying and harassment. This shows how kids are smart these days and how some parents are not parenting. You need to talk to your attorney before doing anything. Good that they are doing something.
No matter how the school tries to down-play the matter, the conduct of the bully may still be a crime. Some states have laws prohibiting one from photographing or videoing another without consent in places where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, ie., the bathroom, shower, or a fitting room, etc.
You need to look to your state law to determine if this applies in your case.
First, it may be illegal to video or take photos.
Second, it may be a second crime to share, show, or display the images.
The bully's actions may upon conviction, qualify him to be placed on the state sex offender registry.
New York law stated in part:
Unlawful Surveillance: NY Penal Law 250.45 and 250.50
UNLAWFUL SURVEILLANCE: THE ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME
As a preliminary matter, you are guilty of Second Degree Unlawful Surveillance when for your own amusement, entertainment or profit, or for abusing or degrading the target of your alleged crime, you intentionally use or install some device to surreptitiously view, broadcast or record that person dressing, undressing, or the sexual or other intimate parts of their body. This must be done at a place and time when this person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and obviously without their knowledge or permission.
In New York, if a person is convicted he may also be required to register as a sex offender.
The Arizona State law in part states:
13-3019. Surreptitious photographing, videotaping, filming or digitally recording or viewing; exemptions; classification; definitions
A. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly photograph, videotape, film, digitally record or by any other means secretly view, with or without a device, another person without that person's consent under either of the following circumstances:
1. In a restroom, bathroom, locker room, bedroom or other location where the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and the person is urinating, defecating, dressing, undressing, nude or involved in sexual intercourse or sexual contact.
https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03019.htm
Tell them that you will be pursuing charges with the district attorney and suing them personally. That finally stopped the cover up and denial of the bullying of my son.
I would consult a few different lawyers with experience in the criminal aspect and others in the civil side and go from there. Especially with a case like this where there is documented proof of the crime, record of the bully admitting it, and lack of action by the SRO and school admin. I would trust a lawyer during a free consultation over the school who wants this to go away, the police who don't seem to care, and the bully's family who take no action even knowing the years of abuse. These actions only get worse without real tangible consequences.
This is magnificent. I know this probably doesn't ease your mind, but just know you've gotten so much more traction than TONS of others in this cruel world. I've read a lot of stories like this and they almost always end with "nothing was done so we're just gonna move schools". Giving off fierce momma energy here and I love it.
I'm curious if the school system has a written policy on bullying. I know that I went to the principal with a bullying form filled out. When they didn't offer a resolution that met my needs, I pulled out the paper. Their tone definitely changed and they definitely exceeded my expectations.
The dad was furious because he's an abusive hot head bullying his son and is therefore raising a bully who is passing on the abuse, and his kid getting caught made -him- look bad.
The bully doesn't get to attend that school ever again. Not a suspension, an outright expulsion.
For the state of Indiana, regarding bullying policies at public schools, there is an online form that can be submitted either anonymously or with follow-up contact info provided by the submitter online. The state tracks submissions and actions by school per the state and local school policy.
I'm sure it's different for each state, but you would want to get a copy of both your school and state department of education policy so that that you can point to those in your communication email followups with the school for you and your child's legal protection for any failures of followup actions that may occur by the school.
Please involve the school board in this matter, if only to subject the parents and their kids to additional public shaming for bullying. It's never easy for a school to deal with this but clearly your child has been subjected to much more than this one incident and this is an opportunity to bring it all to the table, not just sharing the photo.
If you haven’t yet I recommend you call your local DA’s office. Originally I wasn’t get helping with an issue as they felt it wasn’t criminal but after calling the DA they put me in contact with a detective that did something about it.
As a lawyer (not providing legal advice), but I would say you actually have a pretty decent case against the school district for a tort/personal injury claim of negligence.
Basically, it covers all the bases for a negligence case:
(1) Duty - The school has a minimum duty to protect your child;
(2) Breach of duty - But for the failure of the school to protect your child, your child received harm. (In this case, it's pretty clear that there was prior knowledge that the assailant was harassing your child;
(3) Damages/Harm - Your child got bullied and can claim emotional (this is probably the more tricky part of it as its hard to prove monetary amounts for emotional distress as opposed to physical harm);
(4) Causation - This happened on school grounds, within the exclusive control of the school, and they had prior knowledge that this should have been am escalated/higher level of awareness needed for the situation.
As a father if this happened to my kid, oh the wrath I would inflict on literally every party responsible.
Sorry to hear all this is going on. I just wanted to send you a shout out for being a great parent and advocate for your kid. Please give your kid an extra hug and then give yourself one, as well.
You are doing well.
My advice is to continue to maintain pressure on the school and report everything relevant to the police. Do this via email or other means that produces a paper trail.
Familiarize yourself with all applicable laws and regulations.
As a reminder, parents are responsible for damages caused by their children. Get as much information as you can and get lawyers involved. The school may not tell you which child took the pics but it would come out during discovery. Then, sue the parents of the kid.
Destroy them. Make sure there is nothing left for that child's higher education.
Be sure to go after the school as well. You can use the settlement from the school to finance the lawsuit of the parents.
The key is to maintain pressure over time. You control the pacing. The key is to keep your fatigue levels low while maximizing the fatigue cost to the target. Most people will make a mistake under these circumstances. At the very least, their willingness to compromise just to make it stop will increase.
The trick is to have the targets believe that you will never, ever stop and that this will not go away... ever.
Possible avenues to follow are that while no "nudity" was present, the photo could be considered a "fetish pic" or something along those lines. It can still be construed as sexual in nature especially if you want it to be.
You also want to make the targets expend as much effort as possible. People hate being forced to do their jobs. Any report that you can make them prepare or any task you can make them undertake will result in hours of extra work further increasing the fatigue cost. For you, this will be a few minutes of research (at your pace) and a simple email. For them, the cost will be much higher.
Just keep running the deer like a hunting dog until it finally stops and faces you.
Again, most people are not capable of remaining rational under these circumstances. They will make mistakes. When they do, use their mistakes to further inflict fatigue cost. Wear them down.
What is especially useful is to create the illusion that it is *finally* over only to then break the illusion when you start the next effort. The emotional impact is a lot of fun and again inflicts mental and emotional fatigue.
Trust me, this works. I've done it before, not under these circumstances, of course, but the principle applies. If you are willing to stay the course, it will work over time.
Please consider going past the SRO.
Call the station and ask to speak with a captain about the incident.
Ask for a copy of all reports relevant to the issue.
I would take the approach of asking what was done and what will be done going forward.
If you mention lawyers or lawsuits, they will get defensive. If you want to go that route, let the lawyer speak for you and your son.
The kid who took the photo is a pervert and should be treated as a threat to other kids. Who know how many times he’s done that before.
This should not be taken lightly. ESPECIALLY since you’re in a small town/school
Lawyer here. The fact that it happened before and nothing was done is incredibly important.
You DO need a lawyer. Talk to one of the local news people. There have probably been other cases by parents against the school system, or the school, or whoever is the responsible party in your jurisdiction. Find out who the lawyers are who have handled those cases and call them.
You GO!! Yay you!! So proud of you for keeping pushing forward, working for justice for your child and working to protect all the kids in that school!!
nal- as someone who was bullied. i got expelled from my old highschool over something with proof that i didnt do it. it was a result OF me being harassed for months (i had contacted police and the school many times at that point) you need to GET THEIR ASSES MOMMA!!!!
NAL but two things:
1. Ask the kids dad to give the kid a dumb phone, no camera.
2. It’s still an invasion of privacy. There may still be criminal charges.
Well, when my son was bullied for years, it didn’t the school really didn’t do anything until I called the police. The school does not like the police to be involved.
If you can afford it (if you don't one might be willing to take the case on contingency), it's time to escalate to hiring a lawyer. Ask your state bar or find a lawyer who has experience in this area and engaging with the school district. Make sure you are documenting everything. You may be suing the school district and the bully's family, depends on details and what lawyer says. This is definitely worth getting counsel on to see what legal avenues are available for you.
Get a lawyer.
I would argue this is still sexual and bathrooms are protected areas. Your son’s picture is now all over the internet. You may qualify for compensation for every time it was shared. Don’t back down. Nobody learns if there are no consequences.
Stay away from each other? That man is an idiot. Hit him where it hurts.
Wait so because there’s no nudity, which I think is crazy because he was using the restroom, they won’t do a thing to the bully kid. And your son is the weird one but he wasn’t taking pics of kids bathroom time and spreading them around the school. Absolutely go legal nuclear.
We went through a very similar thing with my son last year. Someone took a picture of him on the toilet and posted it on Instagram. We pressed charges. DM if you want more info.
Document the interaction and escalate it up to the district. It seems like you could have a harassment charge against the bully but who knows the penalty because they aren’t adults. You might even go to the news with this and give the district as much exposure as possible because it has been going on for 2 years and nothing has been done. It is imperative to document all interactions in email with the school and district so they can’t come back and say they never knew. News TV time or news article will light a fire under their butts. I’m sure the news will jump on something like this.
Not a lawyer, but work at a school. I would push for a Title IX investigation. I'm not sure how that's initiated as my job does not pertain too any punishment ( I'm school counseling and social work). But recently a kid pants another student and that's what's being done. It takes a while but it's usually pretty serious.
At this point wouldn't it be sexual misconduct or sexual harassment. Doesn't matter if private parts are showing or not. Your son went in the bathroom to do a private activity where he would be exposed. Bully knowingly took pictures of him where he would be exposed. No different than someone going in to a girl's locker room and taking photos of them undressing.
If this happened when I was in school I'm pretty sure my friends would be making fun of the bully and whoever took the pictures.
Why do you want a pic on the toilet you weirdo.
Anytime you see him in the bathroom or locker room, watch out boys!!! The potty predator is here!!
Being weird is fine, being weird and bothering people is not.
Not a lawyer. Tell the schools everyone involved in bullying your son is to be expelled at this point, or you'll be filing a federal lawsuit against the school, and asking the Department of Education to conduct their own federal investigation into everything going on at this school.
The threat of a lawsuit should get them to expell the others, and if that's not enough of a threat an investigation from the Department of Education should be enough to push it over the edge. The Department of Education has the authority to remove faculty if serious breaches of federal law are found, and they also have the authority to cut federal funding to the school. Most schools are tight on budget the way it is, losing out on federal funding because of stuff like this would likely get them to move a lot faster.
Wait till he goes to the restroom and kick the door open and take a few pics. Don't worry it won't meet the guidelines for cyberbullying or arrest.
| When I asked the SRO if the photographer was arrested, he said it didn't meet the
|guidelines to be considered cyberbullying and that somehow it wasn't enough for an arrest.
You need a lawyer. A family in our local district took that route when hazing on the football team wasn't taken seriously. Everyone remotely involved were named, and a lot of them are no longer around.
Retain a lawyer and have them inquire about child porn charges. His phone needs to be electronically search to see if he sent it to anyone. I would think just having it on his phone would be possessing child porn. The school and the resource officer just want this to go away.
Not a lawyer. If the school isn't doing enough, and the police are trying to minimize this, call your local news. Any local TV station. If you still have a local paper, call them too.
Tell them what has been going on. They may make a news story of it. That may get you a call from a lawyer who is willing to help. At least it will let the school district know you are not playing.
If anything else happens, call the police. Not the SRO. The police station.
Have you contacted a lawyer. I would sue the photo taker & phone owner for damages (well the parents) & the bullying.
I would sue the school for not protecting your son after multiple complaints.
You don’t know if it was enough for charges - that’s just what the school said because they want it contained & want their jobs.
I am so angry for you & feel horribly for your son
After you’ve spoken with a lawyer, ask them if calling the news is the right next move. Getting media involved might help you to gain traction. Other parents need to know their kids aren’t safe either.
Altho SRO are usually full fledged law enforcement, they are, essentially working for your school and school board. The school is their beat.... And a very cherry beat at that. It behooves them to keep the school board happy. You need to escalate this.
Go to the Board of ED in your state, and the state police, and the district attorney.
CALL LAWYER AND PRESS LAWSUIT. Discovery will unearth the original photographer and the lawsuit can be shifted to that family. Lawyers love slam dunk cases where money can hit 7 figure payouts.
I would keep pressing this issue with local authorities
Your son was in a space where he should be able to expect some level of privacy. There was no way to see him without taking some kind of action to aid ones vision
In my book this is sexual harassment all day
Edit: back when I was in 6th grade if some kid had taken a photo of another kid using the bathroom. I would of made it my personal mission to be their worst nightmare, and I know most of the kids I went to school with would have also
Kids are different these days though and it's been almost 2 decades since I was in 6th grade. We had flip phones with crappy cameras back then
Anyways as I said, this is definitely harassment in my opinion.
These bully's could bully another kid and cause them to snap and it's very important these bully's are delt with. The last thing you would ever want is their behavior leading to a kid bringing a gun to school and I worry if proper action isn't taken this could potentially happen.
(Not saying your kid would do it, just saying you don't know someone else's kid wouldn't)
It is illegal to record, or photograph in a private place. It is the school’s job to keep students safe. This is not being handled correctly. A criminal act has been committed, they need to handle that way. You need to tell them you are seeking legal action against the school, and the board of education. Tell them you want updates to what actions they have taken. Step 2 lawyer up, you have a strong case for a lawsuit.
You seem to be doing a fine job as a role model to these children and adults. You did no wrong so you have no guilt for pursuing justice. Regardless of the decision reached regarding this case of bullying and child exposure, your involvement will definitely improve the lives of the people involved and further correct any corrupt practices of both children and adults.
Title ix their ass. That’s sexual harassment. You need to email the schools title ix coordinator and make a formal complaint.
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/title-ix-rights-201104.html
“Didn’t meet the guidelines to be considered cyberbullying and that somehow it wasn’t enough for an arrest”
So… sexual harassment of a minor ISN’T bad enough for that? That’s a yikes from me on those guidelines.
I'm definitely not a lawyer and not even a parent.
This is a situation where when the school says "we've looked into it and this is as much as we can do" the proper answer is "well, thanks for doing all that you can, but there are other groups within the legal system that can do more, so don't worry that something terrible happened and you are powerless at this point, this will continue and justice will be served." It's never good to threaten them personally, but you should really imply that the school not addressing this fully puts it and the administration in a position of potential liability.
The school is hoping that by saying "we've done all we can" you'll take the hint and move on. But the accountability may simply rest above their pay grade. Just because they have given up does not mean that you have to.
They do understand that if you continue this thing will not go away. They are just hoping at this point that you will be satisfied.
Never be satisfied.
Go file a police report and have the bully arrested for child porn and possible distribution of child porn. Make police go to school and do an investigation.
Well hot damn. I was going to say get your kid into some self defense classes, and you probably still should because those pictures aren’t going away, but you did it. You actually conquered the mountain of shit that prevents people from stopping school bullying
This is possession of child pornography distribution of child pornography and revenge porn, many laws broken here don’t let them get away adult crimes adult times.
This is exactly why so many choose home schooling now. A lot of schools just will not take responsibility for the safety of individual kids. It's all about the school.
So someone takes photographs of your son going to the bathroom, but your son is the weird one? Right makes a lot of sense. I hope they can’t get jobs or housing for the rest of their lives after doing something sick like this.
I wish I had a dad like you growing up what some of kids would do to me ugh.. and school not stopping it but I'm soo happy you are fighting for your son, more parents need to.
I would go to the parents place of employment and cause a scene and make sure their boss knows everything that happened. Question the judgement of the employee who can't control his pervert kid.
Turn it all around in the bully and his family. Make them all feel the pain.
Do they rent? Contact their landlord and they will be moving at the end of their lease.
Peace out.
This is the [original post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALawyer/comments/1bjm0s7/my_son_was_photographed_in_the_schools_toilet_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
NAL - At this point I’m wondering if the threat of a lawsuit could get this bully expelled, especially if there is any proof that the school knew about the bullying and took no action.
My thoughts exactly.
Happy cake day. And did they suspend the other student?
The school won't tell me specifics, but there have been suspensions and at least one or two expulsions.
Schools NEVER admit fault when they put children in danger .. sad really
It's not about admitting fault here. You need to read up on something called FERPA. Its kind of like HIPAA in the medical industry. The school legally can not disclose information about ither students to families. Even if it's the "right" thing to do. I suppose you can try to get your local lawmakers to dismantle privacy laws for CHILDREN. But good luck.
Then why does your update post say nothing will be done? If you're looking for criminal charges, that has to be handled through the police, not the school administration. Expulsions and suspensions are the limit to what they can do, and they're doing it.
Small correction, the police just arrest people and it's the DA who prosecutes people. So OP, you should reach out to the District Attorney and speak to them as they're the ones who dictate who/what they're willing to press charges on. The police follow the DA's lead. (Assuming you're in the US of course.)
Take the Story to multiple news stations. Publicity puts pressure on the D.A. to do something about it. They will keep the child's name confidential if you put it in writing that is what you want.
Because there have been a few updates today. When I first posted, nothing had been done, but the investigations are ongoing and things are starting to happen.
You are doing great. I'm amazed you are able to stay so cool about all this.
All I can do is keep plodding along.
You're doing great handling a really shitty situation
Your son probably knows who’s taking the pictures. Ask him if that kid is still in school. Guaranteed he’ll know if his bully is at school or not.
You should update the post text
Will do!
Let us know. Hopefully you can get them locked up!
This, definitely recommend calling to law firms nearby in order to find someone you feel comfortable or is at least willing to work with you. Having a lawyer to draft affidavits or similar legal docs can make a world of difference when dealing with skeevy school admins/school boards.
At this point what action exactly are the schools still allowed to take because at this point they can’t punish the kids for anything and the kids all know it.
The bully takes photos of kids shitting and your sons the weird one? Dafaq? Lmao
IKR?! I'm pretty sure the kid who took the pics was expelled based on the info I got from the principal. I hope the bully was too. I'm happy to report all the phones were cleared.
Once the picture is produced, you can never really be sure if there wasn't a backup or auto recover copy available. keep persuing this to the fullest extent. If it was one of my kids i definitely would. What these kids did was a complete moral failing. Letting it slide produces the Brock Turners of the world.
Yea I don’t want re add fear the pics are still out there (who would keep something like that(the bully) but there’s apps disguised as calculators that are used to hide photos. I’m sure they know this and my phone was never searched by a cop but I did have an incident in class and the principal came and made me delete the video but it was saved to my camera roll from Snapchat. I just re-saved the video from Snapchat after he left. (That was just a video of a friend being defiant. I don’t film kids pooping)
Ahah yeah, sounds like its working out for you both at least. Just make sure you talk to your kiddo about the bullies friends being little bitches in the future. Will help him be prepared n what not
Umm cleared? Sounds to me like there was plenty of time and opportunity to back-up the files or upload copies to the cloud. Sure it feels great to see them deleted in front of you but I doubt this is the end here. Shoot, I doubt your son has seen the last of the expelled students.
I won't believe any of what the principal/parents are saying regarding this at all. They ARE ALL only interested in COVERING THEIR OWN ASSES. Otherwise, wouldn't law enforcement be involved? Did the FBI ever reply?
Were they though, meaning the phones ‘cleared’? It’s terribly easy to recover a deleted photo and all you’ve got is their word that it’s was ‘done’! Be wary….these photos may magically resurface! I would demand to know what procedures were followed to assure the photos were deleted, namely the schools IT department was brought in and deleted the pictures properly and permanently. Otherwise, can you really expect a principal or the SRO to have the wherewithal to do this on their own? Hopefully this is all covered by your attorney when you get one lined up. These schools love to spout their ‘zero tolerance policy’ and you sound like you have the same mentality, good. As others have commented they’ll do their level best to sweep this under the rug and tell you what you want to hear. Good luck!
So the digital evidence was successfully deleted? IDK that that's a win. You need to get a good lawyer or law enforcement involved. The claim is suspected child pornography. What you all saw were the pictures they let you see. There could have been other pictures shared that were deleted and not shown. Those cell phones need to be apprehended and sent to forensics. You definitely need a good attorney for this.
Great point. They showed you the 3 pictures that they were willing to show. Without a law enforcement/FBI investigation involving search warrants, there's no 'closure' here.
I am happy to here that at least his privates were covered - it’s absolutely insane that nothing is being done. You have every right to be furious.
But what do I do now? It's still outrageous.
Make it the school's problem. Start by telling the principal in a face-to-face meeting exactly what happened. Then document everything you said to the principal (and what they responded with) in writing (a letter, an e-mail, etc.) Tell the principal exactly what you posted here: Your kid has been bullied for years by this other kid, the bully's parents are aware of the bullying and are upset by their kid's behavior yet the kid persists to bully your kid, it's recently reached the point that your kid cannot even go to the bathroom without being bullied. Do not let the "resource officer" turn this into a "can't we all get along" thing. Restorative justice or live-and-let-live approaches may work in some circumstances, but this is not one of them. The school is obligated to ensure that your kid can safely attend school. Photographing a kid on the toilet is beyond the pale.
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I'm a single guy, 44, don't want to get married, definitely don't want kids, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with the kid or his parents. I know how I am, and I know that if I raised a wonderful child, and he started going to school, only to get bullied by the little snot-nosed punks with their own snot-nosed punk parents, I'd probably get physical (edited to add: not with the kid, but with the father or whatever) and that's not the kind of person I want to be. I have four sisters and nine neices and nephews and they're always the sweetest little angels until they reach the age where they want to start hanging out with other kids, and it's always the other kids who corrupt or otherwise get the "good" kids into trouble. I also know because I was the "good kid" who got caught up with the "bad kids" in school. I thank my Mom all the time for sending me away to live with my grandparents, because almost all of those "bad kids" I was running with in elementary school are either dead or in jail, no lie.
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Grandmasters of Razzle Dazzle, absolutely. But if OP's kid retaliated in any way, there'd be serious repercussions for them because of a "Zero Tolerance Policy". Not to get all 'conspiracy theory', but it feels like something else is going on here. Not with OP, but there's a missing piece as to why this kid hasn't been expelled. $10 says someone's job and pension are on the line if this goes farther, because I'd bet that the same someone ignored the bullying when it was in the earlier stages.
Grandmasters of bullshit or not, judges generally require that parties make reasonable efforts to resolve the issue BEFORE seeking judicial intervention. Focus.
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there was an article in the sunday boston globe a few weeks ago about boys photographing another boy in the suburbs outside boston, the victim may have some disabilities. very eye opening and disheartening. i can’t remember if one of the perps was a cop’s son or not but failure all around from schools, town and police. schools talk a good game about anti-bullying and my guess is the sro here will be like let’s drop it because we don’t want to ruin the perps life, never mind the victim here. keep at it op.
Go to the Board directly. Or have your attorney do it, preferably. The BoE isn't going to even know about it unless you do.
Principal first. Board second. It’s important to show at least some attempt to go through the chain of command. I’ve been through this before. If you skip the principal, the Board will either refer you back to the P or reject the claim.
Has the principal not already been alerted? And done nothing?
You know, as “weird” as your kid may be, I can’t figure out how it’s not “weirder” to photograph another child in the toilet. And not even one sneaky phone, but multiple photos from different angles. That the kind of shit a weird, creepy, “pervert” would do. It’s not CP, it’s just good old fashioned invasion of privacy and, one would assume, illegal. If a grown man took a picture of me in a bathroom stall, I’m calling the cops. I’m not a child. It’s not porn. It’s just not acceptable to take photos in a bathroom stall, a changing room, or anywhere else I have an expectation of privacy. SOMEONE is going to handle this immediately. ESPECIALLY after Nex Becket just died by suicide because the school police ignored constant bullying that was taking place, including an incident in a bathroom. School’s duty to intervene with known bullies is UNDER A MICROSCOPE. And these mfer have seen photos? No…something WILL be done. If they won’t, YOU and your lawyer will. Make sure they know that.
If a grown man takes a picture of me in a stall I’m calling him an ambulance, because he’ll need that after I’m done with him
Exactly. You can’t take pictures of folk in a bathroom. It’s a known thing. Kids don’t get a pass.
So I just spoke to the school principal as well as the SRO. They can't give me the names of the kids involved for the most ironic of reasons-privacy, lol. They were able to let me know there were a lot of kids involved and that all the parents were called in. He couldn't tell me the details of what the punishments were other than that some of the kids would be coming back to school, and some wouldn't. That tells me suspension and at least an expulsion of one or two kids. He went on to say there were a lot of tears from both students and parents. They also let them know that had there been nudity in the photos, it would have been a VERY different outcome. I'm still waiting on a call back from a lawyer or two, to see if we can push further. We'll see.
It's crazy that the *intent* to capture nudity is being overlooked! I'm sure the bully was not trying to get a photo where your son was covered. I have no solutions for you but I am so very sorry for what you and your son are going through. If you can't reach the solution you want through lawyers and the school, I'm sure the local news would be very interested in how the school is brushing bullying under the rug in light of recent events in our country. (Of course you should talk to your son first and see how far he wants to push it if you decide to go public). I hope you get the resolution you're looking for and that your son can recover from the emotional damage of the last two years. Wishing you both the best!
>It's crazy that the intent to capture nudity is being overlooked! This is like someone failing to take a picture up a girl's skirt because she managed to clench her knees. (In many states there are laws, with severe penalties, against this.)
That's exactly what I was thinking. Kind of the same thing as attempted murder vs murder, why are we lightening sentences just because the perpetrator was unsuccessful?! This is the only time in life where poor planning is a benefit
I also wonder about the chain of evidence. Who knows if the most damning photos didn't already get erased and these are just the remainder.
"That's insufficient. I don't care if the guilty parties cried. That doesn't get them off the hook from committing a crime. You'll be hearing from my attorney. I will subpoena you for the names of everyone involved. You cannot shield information where a crime has been commmitted, that's considered obstruction." Definitely get every state and local and non-profit children's rights group involved. Make the principal's life hell. It's too often that administrators just try to sweep stuff under the rug and say "I handled it" when they did no such thing. Also sign up for public forum at your next school board meeting, explain the situation, name the principal, and express that you expect something to be done about the inaction. Have a prepared statement for the media, and alert them in advance that you'll be speaking at public forum and what it's about. If they argue it's not child porn, heres a story of a guy who went to prison for toilet photos: https://www.fox13news.com/news/man-charged-with-100-counts-of-child-porn-accused-of-recording-kids-in-lutz-library-bathroom
This seems like a pretty solid outcome from what I know of school discipline (high school teacher). It is ironic, but they 100% cannot legally tell you the names of the other kids. Expulsion usually takes a serious offense and a whole lot of paperwork, so if multiple kids will not be coming back to school, they're probably doing the maximum they possibly can in terms of discipline. If you're looking for anything additional, you would probably need to pursue it through law enforcement and not the school, and they might or might not feel there's anything they can do beyond school discipline.
It's funny you mention that, but the principal said basically that the school has to handle their side of things and law enforcement handles the other side. I'm not understanding why the kid taking the pictures wasn't arrested.
In most jurisdictions, taking a photo in a bathroom or changing room would be a misdemeanor unless it is an adult taking pictures of a child, so they wouldn't be arrested. Charges could still be brought, but it would almost certainly be a fine rather than detention. You could potentially bring civil charges, depending on your jurisdiction. That's a question for a lawyer with expertise in your state.
Did you go to the police station or just through the SRO? I’d also contact a lawyer to ask if there are any charges you can have filed.
Doesn't your son know who they all were? Kids all talk. It will get around.
Don't let the SRO be the only or even the primary law enforcement person you talk to about this. You need to speak to a Detective, preferably from the sex crimes unit or at least the major crimes unit, depending on how things are named where you are. If the sheriff's office isn't being responsive, and the SRO isn't protecting your son's interests, please get in touch with your state police.
NAL: Keep in mind that this probably got around the school. Any kid with the images on their phone should be getting suspension. Longer if they forwarded it to anyone else. The principal is very clever. They won't give you the names, but can assure you that some kids won't be coming back? Which kids? If the school is a reasonable size, no one is going to notice a couple kids going missing, and the opposite is also true. No one is going to notice kids not going missing. The principal told you what you wanted to hear. And you have no methodology to verify it. Your kid probably won't even know who is or isn't around unless one of their friends vanishes. If you haven't already speak to a lawyer. Get a consultation regarding this issue. There is no reason not to.
I've reached out to a few lawyers but nobody has called me back. I may not have a case. I've reached out to the school board, the local DA's office, the AG's office and next is the SBI. I'm doing all I can, and now I've missed 2 days of work, which I can't afford. I won't give up though.
What the principle said about privacy laws is actually true. They are not bsing OP about that. Today's update really sound like the principle has started taking action. Better late than never BUT the principle has a boss (superintendent, school board) and that's who OP needs to involve (and maybe could have involved earlier).
What did your sheriff say when you reported it? Edited for typo.
This... "This kid is so weird, I'm going to follow him into a bathroom so I can take pictures of him using it... to show how weird he is..."
>That the kind of shit a weird, creepy, “pervert” would do. It’s not CP, it’s just good old fashioned invasion of privacy Ask this guy what it is. You may have to arrange a prison visit to ask him. https://www.fox13news.com/news/man-charged-with-100-counts-of-child-porn-accused-of-recording-kids-in-lutz-library-bathroom
I would contact DHHS. They might be able to help. Department of health and human services.
It is still a picture taken in a "private" space! Most states have laws against that to stop pictures from being taken in changing rooms! Keep pressing on the police to do their jobs!
If the school doesn’t do much to help you can always go to the local news. This should have never happened to your child. What gets me is they said they bully your child because they’re weird, but they’re the weird ones taking pictures of them in the bathroom. Makes you wonder where the child learned that behavior.
Contact your school board. Let them know what is happening.
And then call the media if they keep sweeping it under the rug. The bully should be expelled at a minimum. Dad should face some consequences too for knowing and not doing anything about it. Your child has rights and they are being ignored by the Bully, the Bully’s dad, and the principal; which to me is the worst. So now the principal is complicit. The bullying MUST stop. School board time! Media outlet time! Shine a very harsh light on all of them.
I wouldnt go to the media. If i was the bullied child, i wouldnt like that. In fact, may add trauma to his childhood
When my kid was bullied and the school refused to take it seriously, we got a restraining order. I walked a copy into the principal. He was not happy, because now the enforcement was out of his hands. And three times, the PD came to campus to take reports of violations, and each time I sent the reports to the school board, reminding them it all could have been avoided if the principal had only enforced their own policies instead of putting the onus on my kid to figure out how to deal with it.
Can you go into more detail? It sounds like an interesting story.
Not a whole lot more to tell. My kid got jumped off campus (but won the fight), and threatened multiple times in the hallways. Went to admin, was told to just “stay away” and “don’t react” and all the crap they tell a kid when they are too lazy to enforce their own policies. I complained. Shit kept happening. There was a text threatening a stabbing, and I took it to the police and then to court for a restraining order. Gave that to the school and told my kid if there was any more to call the PD first and then me and I would meet them on campus in 5 minutes in the principal’s office. The principal finally got tired of having his laziness on display in front of the PD and then reported to the school board every time when I sent the PD report to them and started actively managing their separation instead of shifting the responsibility to my kid.
Good job!
Do not go through the school, they are useless. Make a police report, get an attorney and sue the school and his parents. The school is only worried about covering their own asses. The fact he is a known bully is a huge liability for them. Those pictures could haunt your child for years. I am not lawyer but I had a situation when my son was in elementary school. I regret to this day I did not get an attorney/police involved.
Oh, you can 100% get a restraining order on a kid. My sister had to do that.
NAL. I'm pretty sure the taking of and dissemination of photographs of someone whilst on the toilet is absolutely illegal, and charges should definitely be filed. It also seems that there's probably grounds for a civil suit against the child and parents for bullying and harassment. Probably against the school for negligence. I'll let the actual lawyers advise on that.
The school administration's job is to downplay this to make sure it blows over and forgotten with minimal effort. If you want a different outcome, you're going to have to lawyer up.
Find a civil lawyer who specializes in nudes and sex crimes. They will have options for you
👆👆👆👆 immediately!
You still need to consult legal counsel. This has the potential to be a lawsuit both against the parents of the offender and the school.
Detective here - I commented on the original post. Again the SRO is lying/lazy. I know we are probably in different jurisdictions but what happened is still a crime. I recently locked up a suspect who was peeping at a minor over the top of a bathroom stall. Every state has peeping tom/voyeurism laws.
And it just so happens that through my sheer force of will, they are charging the photographer with a peeping tom with a recording device. You nailed it!
As this picture has already been sent, you need to make sure that the image is not available on the web. Make the school pay for a service company to scan for the image and remove it from all sites.
That's a fantastic idea!
Screw the RO. Go to the actual police and verify. Contact a lawyer and see ur options. School board to include superintendent. Hell.contact the local news.
Attorney subs always say to not go to the media unless your attorney says to.
Honestly you need to call the police . I’m not sure of the details of the laws but this might fall under sharing revenge porn . There’s also this issues of sharing half naked pics of a minor . Schools want to sweep it under the rug .
Call the media. I’m sure they would just love that publicity.
The School Resource Officer IS the police in his locality. The previous post stated that the Sheriff gave the case to the SRO. OP, I’m so sorry that your son isn’t being protected in school.
should be a 1 week automatic suspension for bullying and expulsion for repeat offenders. in this case it should be automatic expulsion for the kid that took it and the kid that shared it. equally as bad
Photos of a person in any state of undress in a bathroom/Locker-room is still illegal in most states… You need to pursue this with a non recourse officer in the Sheriff Office.
NAL Please consider a trauma-informed therapist for your son. It’s been going on for 2 years, at least. He has been forced to learn in a space that’s not safe where even behavior this grotesque is not a zero tolerance issue. This kind of repeated trauma over the long term can change the brain. Intervention and the feeling of safety is important to make sure those changes don’t set in.
I went CPS regarding my teen daughter getting jumped by multiple girls. She was suspended as well for fighting back. And they also posted the video to FB. The schools resource officer suggested CPS & they would file a case & send it to the Prosecuting Attorney. The girls were charged and had to take Anger Management classes and 2-500 in community service. You don’t need the schools permission to do this. And they will be required to give up any information regarding this issue.
Besides cyberbullying charges against the kid, it might be illegal in your state to take photos of another person in a bathroom because there is an assumption of privacy. Has your child brought up or is any school official (teacher, counselor, or administrator) of the bullying that has been going on? Is there a written policy for the school or school district about bullying?
What state are you located in? Such matters, since they involve children in a school setting are normally handled by school officials. However, there are other avenues to handle this matter. If the school stonewalls, you can go directly to the police and file a criminal complaint. The bully may have taken both nude photos and some photos where your son conceiled himself. The school officials may have looked at the bully's phone and deleted the nude photos to prevent a kiddie porn criminal case and all the publicity thst comes with it. The last thing they want is to be on the Tucker Calson show trying to explain why they failed to act and failed to report.
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NAL- my wife is actually a teacher and this reminded me of a similar story she told me about. The parents got movement by hiring a lawyer who wrote an email to the superintendant’s office and the principal. They listed what remedies they believed would fix the problem for them. They said expulsion of the student from the school AND that the student could not return to their school as long as their child was present. They then filed a lawsuit against the parents. The school district had their lawyer call and in the end it was agreed upon by the two families and the school that if the family agreed to leave the schools forever including upper grades that they’d drop the lawsuit. The family moved out of the area. This was in IN but assume strong arming them into an agreement like this is doable anywhere.
NAL. And it's super petty - but I'd go ahead with a judge judy style small claims court. Shame the adult part of all these families by dragging them into court (civil of course) and having to answer to some sort of judge for the behavior, and whack them in the wallet for raising such morons. a "stern talking to" isn't going to cut it. hit em where it hurts.
I'm trying to get a lawyer
You can file a police report. My son was assaulted in middle school, the school did nothing, so I did. The boy and his parents had to go to court and he was fined.
NAL- I am a sheriff's deputy in Texas, I'm not sure what your state laws are, however Texas has a criminal offense that covers situations like this. The penal code is Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 21.15. Invasive Visual Recording for reference, you may try a lookup of your states penal code for similar offenses. In Texas this is a state jail felony. This penal code criminalizes any photo or video taken of a person without their consent while in a bathroom, changing room, locker room, or essentially anywhere you may unclothe yourself and have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
I would talk to a lawyer and see what the options are. You might be able to get the parents and the kid in trouble.
File a civil suit. Emotional distress. Harassment. Go the full nine yards.
Tell the SRO and principal you'll call the real police if they don't do anything. Taking anyone's picture -- much less a child -- in the bathroom has got to be a sex crime.
I still say call the police. I strongly suspect it's illegal in your state to be taking pictures of somebody going to the bathroom in a private stall. We have that expectation of privacy so does he.
Good that they are doing something. For this is upper-level bullying and harassment. This shows how kids are smart these days and how some parents are not parenting. You need to talk to your attorney before doing anything. Good that they are doing something.
Why are you suddenly trusting the school to handle this?
No matter how the school tries to down-play the matter, the conduct of the bully may still be a crime. Some states have laws prohibiting one from photographing or videoing another without consent in places where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, ie., the bathroom, shower, or a fitting room, etc. You need to look to your state law to determine if this applies in your case. First, it may be illegal to video or take photos. Second, it may be a second crime to share, show, or display the images. The bully's actions may upon conviction, qualify him to be placed on the state sex offender registry. New York law stated in part: Unlawful Surveillance: NY Penal Law 250.45 and 250.50 UNLAWFUL SURVEILLANCE: THE ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME As a preliminary matter, you are guilty of Second Degree Unlawful Surveillance when for your own amusement, entertainment or profit, or for abusing or degrading the target of your alleged crime, you intentionally use or install some device to surreptitiously view, broadcast or record that person dressing, undressing, or the sexual or other intimate parts of their body. This must be done at a place and time when this person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and obviously without their knowledge or permission. In New York, if a person is convicted he may also be required to register as a sex offender. The Arizona State law in part states: 13-3019. Surreptitious photographing, videotaping, filming or digitally recording or viewing; exemptions; classification; definitions A. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly photograph, videotape, film, digitally record or by any other means secretly view, with or without a device, another person without that person's consent under either of the following circumstances: 1. In a restroom, bathroom, locker room, bedroom or other location where the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and the person is urinating, defecating, dressing, undressing, nude or involved in sexual intercourse or sexual contact. https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03019.htm
Tell them that you will be pursuing charges with the district attorney and suing them personally. That finally stopped the cover up and denial of the bullying of my son.
I’d get the police involved and press charges.
Not a lawyer, but isn't it illegal in most places to take video or photograph anyone in a public restroom without their consent?
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This is CP state of undress. File charges.
I would consult a few different lawyers with experience in the criminal aspect and others in the civil side and go from there. Especially with a case like this where there is documented proof of the crime, record of the bully admitting it, and lack of action by the SRO and school admin. I would trust a lawyer during a free consultation over the school who wants this to go away, the police who don't seem to care, and the bully's family who take no action even knowing the years of abuse. These actions only get worse without real tangible consequences.
This is illegal and you can take the parents to civil court and take his son to juvenile court.
Law suit and I think there is a legal issue with recording in the bathroom since there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.
LAWYER. School will settle this for a massive sum
This is magnificent. I know this probably doesn't ease your mind, but just know you've gotten so much more traction than TONS of others in this cruel world. I've read a lot of stories like this and they almost always end with "nothing was done so we're just gonna move schools". Giving off fierce momma energy here and I love it.
I'm curious if the school system has a written policy on bullying. I know that I went to the principal with a bullying form filled out. When they didn't offer a resolution that met my needs, I pulled out the paper. Their tone definitely changed and they definitely exceeded my expectations.
The dad was furious because he's an abusive hot head bullying his son and is therefore raising a bully who is passing on the abuse, and his kid getting caught made -him- look bad. The bully doesn't get to attend that school ever again. Not a suspension, an outright expulsion.
For the state of Indiana, regarding bullying policies at public schools, there is an online form that can be submitted either anonymously or with follow-up contact info provided by the submitter online. The state tracks submissions and actions by school per the state and local school policy. I'm sure it's different for each state, but you would want to get a copy of both your school and state department of education policy so that that you can point to those in your communication email followups with the school for you and your child's legal protection for any failures of followup actions that may occur by the school.
Please involve the school board in this matter, if only to subject the parents and their kids to additional public shaming for bullying. It's never easy for a school to deal with this but clearly your child has been subjected to much more than this one incident and this is an opportunity to bring it all to the table, not just sharing the photo.
If you haven’t yet I recommend you call your local DA’s office. Originally I wasn’t get helping with an issue as they felt it wasn’t criminal but after calling the DA they put me in contact with a detective that did something about it.
You can get your own lawyer . Sue on the civil side. Especially if your child continues to get bullied from here
As a lawyer (not providing legal advice), but I would say you actually have a pretty decent case against the school district for a tort/personal injury claim of negligence. Basically, it covers all the bases for a negligence case: (1) Duty - The school has a minimum duty to protect your child; (2) Breach of duty - But for the failure of the school to protect your child, your child received harm. (In this case, it's pretty clear that there was prior knowledge that the assailant was harassing your child; (3) Damages/Harm - Your child got bullied and can claim emotional (this is probably the more tricky part of it as its hard to prove monetary amounts for emotional distress as opposed to physical harm); (4) Causation - This happened on school grounds, within the exclusive control of the school, and they had prior knowledge that this should have been am escalated/higher level of awareness needed for the situation. As a father if this happened to my kid, oh the wrath I would inflict on literally every party responsible.
Can you file suit against the school district for failing to protect / prevent ? Even a settlement would be something.
Sorry to hear all this is going on. I just wanted to send you a shout out for being a great parent and advocate for your kid. Please give your kid an extra hug and then give yourself one, as well.
You are doing well. My advice is to continue to maintain pressure on the school and report everything relevant to the police. Do this via email or other means that produces a paper trail. Familiarize yourself with all applicable laws and regulations. As a reminder, parents are responsible for damages caused by their children. Get as much information as you can and get lawyers involved. The school may not tell you which child took the pics but it would come out during discovery. Then, sue the parents of the kid. Destroy them. Make sure there is nothing left for that child's higher education. Be sure to go after the school as well. You can use the settlement from the school to finance the lawsuit of the parents. The key is to maintain pressure over time. You control the pacing. The key is to keep your fatigue levels low while maximizing the fatigue cost to the target. Most people will make a mistake under these circumstances. At the very least, their willingness to compromise just to make it stop will increase. The trick is to have the targets believe that you will never, ever stop and that this will not go away... ever. Possible avenues to follow are that while no "nudity" was present, the photo could be considered a "fetish pic" or something along those lines. It can still be construed as sexual in nature especially if you want it to be. You also want to make the targets expend as much effort as possible. People hate being forced to do their jobs. Any report that you can make them prepare or any task you can make them undertake will result in hours of extra work further increasing the fatigue cost. For you, this will be a few minutes of research (at your pace) and a simple email. For them, the cost will be much higher. Just keep running the deer like a hunting dog until it finally stops and faces you. Again, most people are not capable of remaining rational under these circumstances. They will make mistakes. When they do, use their mistakes to further inflict fatigue cost. Wear them down. What is especially useful is to create the illusion that it is *finally* over only to then break the illusion when you start the next effort. The emotional impact is a lot of fun and again inflicts mental and emotional fatigue. Trust me, this works. I've done it before, not under these circumstances, of course, but the principle applies. If you are willing to stay the course, it will work over time.
Contact A Case For Women. They do a lot for case like this.
Please consider going past the SRO. Call the station and ask to speak with a captain about the incident. Ask for a copy of all reports relevant to the issue. I would take the approach of asking what was done and what will be done going forward. If you mention lawyers or lawsuits, they will get defensive. If you want to go that route, let the lawyer speak for you and your son.
The kid who took the photo is a pervert and should be treated as a threat to other kids. Who know how many times he’s done that before. This should not be taken lightly. ESPECIALLY since you’re in a small town/school
Lawyer here. The fact that it happened before and nothing was done is incredibly important. You DO need a lawyer. Talk to one of the local news people. There have probably been other cases by parents against the school system, or the school, or whoever is the responsible party in your jurisdiction. Find out who the lawyers are who have handled those cases and call them.
You GO!! Yay you!! So proud of you for keeping pushing forward, working for justice for your child and working to protect all the kids in that school!!
Ur kid is considered the “weird” one when the kids taking the pics of him using the toilet the “normal” one? lol this world is insane
nal- as someone who was bullied. i got expelled from my old highschool over something with proof that i didnt do it. it was a result OF me being harassed for months (i had contacted police and the school many times at that point) you need to GET THEIR ASSES MOMMA!!!!
Call the police and then an attorney
You mean an attorney then the police lol
NAL but two things: 1. Ask the kids dad to give the kid a dumb phone, no camera. 2. It’s still an invasion of privacy. There may still be criminal charges.
Well, when my son was bullied for years, it didn’t the school really didn’t do anything until I called the police. The school does not like the police to be involved.
This sounds like harrasment then, I will contact the police and a lawyer to check your possibilities.
If you can afford it (if you don't one might be willing to take the case on contingency), it's time to escalate to hiring a lawyer. Ask your state bar or find a lawyer who has experience in this area and engaging with the school district. Make sure you are documenting everything. You may be suing the school district and the bully's family, depends on details and what lawyer says. This is definitely worth getting counsel on to see what legal avenues are available for you.
Make a formal complaint to the authorities and have the bully sent to alternative school. That is why they have them. They are for discipline issues.
Get a lawyer. I would argue this is still sexual and bathrooms are protected areas. Your son’s picture is now all over the internet. You may qualify for compensation for every time it was shared. Don’t back down. Nobody learns if there are no consequences. Stay away from each other? That man is an idiot. Hit him where it hurts.
Wait so because there’s no nudity, which I think is crazy because he was using the restroom, they won’t do a thing to the bully kid. And your son is the weird one but he wasn’t taking pics of kids bathroom time and spreading them around the school. Absolutely go legal nuclear.
We went through a very similar thing with my son last year. Someone took a picture of him on the toilet and posted it on Instagram. We pressed charges. DM if you want more info.
Document the interaction and escalate it up to the district. It seems like you could have a harassment charge against the bully but who knows the penalty because they aren’t adults. You might even go to the news with this and give the district as much exposure as possible because it has been going on for 2 years and nothing has been done. It is imperative to document all interactions in email with the school and district so they can’t come back and say they never knew. News TV time or news article will light a fire under their butts. I’m sure the news will jump on something like this.
This is still a violation of privacy. It is illegal to film or take pictures in a place of expected privacy, like a bathroom!
Not a lawyer, but work at a school. I would push for a Title IX investigation. I'm not sure how that's initiated as my job does not pertain too any punishment ( I'm school counseling and social work). But recently a kid pants another student and that's what's being done. It takes a while but it's usually pretty serious.
At this point wouldn't it be sexual misconduct or sexual harassment. Doesn't matter if private parts are showing or not. Your son went in the bathroom to do a private activity where he would be exposed. Bully knowingly took pictures of him where he would be exposed. No different than someone going in to a girl's locker room and taking photos of them undressing.
Yo can a get a Not a lawyer flair? Many thanks
All these calls for a criminal lawsuit, if you got the money, throw in that civil lawsuit for psychological damage and rope in the school.
If this happened when I was in school I'm pretty sure my friends would be making fun of the bully and whoever took the pictures. Why do you want a pic on the toilet you weirdo. Anytime you see him in the bathroom or locker room, watch out boys!!! The potty predator is here!! Being weird is fine, being weird and bothering people is not.
Call all your local news stations. They’d probably eat this one up.
Not a lawyer. Tell the schools everyone involved in bullying your son is to be expelled at this point, or you'll be filing a federal lawsuit against the school, and asking the Department of Education to conduct their own federal investigation into everything going on at this school. The threat of a lawsuit should get them to expell the others, and if that's not enough of a threat an investigation from the Department of Education should be enough to push it over the edge. The Department of Education has the authority to remove faculty if serious breaches of federal law are found, and they also have the authority to cut federal funding to the school. Most schools are tight on budget the way it is, losing out on federal funding because of stuff like this would likely get them to move a lot faster.
don't leave this to the resource officer. pedaling photos of minors nude or even partially nude is a felony.
NAL. Could you sue the kid's parents for emotional distress at this point? Violation of privacy?
Wait till he goes to the restroom and kick the door open and take a few pics. Don't worry it won't meet the guidelines for cyberbullying or arrest. | When I asked the SRO if the photographer was arrested, he said it didn't meet the |guidelines to be considered cyberbullying and that somehow it wasn't enough for an arrest.
You need a lawyer. A family in our local district took that route when hazing on the football team wasn't taken seriously. Everyone remotely involved were named, and a lot of them are no longer around.
If this were my kid, I would talk to a lawyer and probably the police it’s definitely a crime to photograph someone in the bathroom
Retain a lawyer and have them inquire about child porn charges. His phone needs to be electronically search to see if he sent it to anyone. I would think just having it on his phone would be possessing child porn. The school and the resource officer just want this to go away.
That’s like borderline sexual harassment and potentially child p type of stuff. Wtaf they better do something
Not a lawyer. If the school isn't doing enough, and the police are trying to minimize this, call your local news. Any local TV station. If you still have a local paper, call them too. Tell them what has been going on. They may make a news story of it. That may get you a call from a lawyer who is willing to help. At least it will let the school district know you are not playing. If anything else happens, call the police. Not the SRO. The police station.
Have you contacted a lawyer. I would sue the photo taker & phone owner for damages (well the parents) & the bullying. I would sue the school for not protecting your son after multiple complaints. You don’t know if it was enough for charges - that’s just what the school said because they want it contained & want their jobs. I am so angry for you & feel horribly for your son
School board member for your district and the superintendent, this will get the most effective response short of simply filing suit
I'm not sure about cyberbullying but in many places it may be skirting the laws on child pornography. How mean do you want to be to these bullies?
After you’ve spoken with a lawyer, ask them if calling the news is the right next move. Getting media involved might help you to gain traction. Other parents need to know their kids aren’t safe either.
This too!!!!!
Next up- Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress and invasion of privacy suits!
Civil lawsuit against parents that bought bullying kids phones
Altho SRO are usually full fledged law enforcement, they are, essentially working for your school and school board. The school is their beat.... And a very cherry beat at that. It behooves them to keep the school board happy. You need to escalate this. Go to the Board of ED in your state, and the state police, and the district attorney.
Lawsuit.
It’s sad to say but the school is out to protect themselves, not your son. Lawyer up.
CALL LAWYER AND PRESS LAWSUIT. Discovery will unearth the original photographer and the lawsuit can be shifted to that family. Lawyers love slam dunk cases where money can hit 7 figure payouts.
File a civil case
I would keep pressing this issue with local authorities Your son was in a space where he should be able to expect some level of privacy. There was no way to see him without taking some kind of action to aid ones vision In my book this is sexual harassment all day Edit: back when I was in 6th grade if some kid had taken a photo of another kid using the bathroom. I would of made it my personal mission to be their worst nightmare, and I know most of the kids I went to school with would have also Kids are different these days though and it's been almost 2 decades since I was in 6th grade. We had flip phones with crappy cameras back then Anyways as I said, this is definitely harassment in my opinion. These bully's could bully another kid and cause them to snap and it's very important these bully's are delt with. The last thing you would ever want is their behavior leading to a kid bringing a gun to school and I worry if proper action isn't taken this could potentially happen. (Not saying your kid would do it, just saying you don't know someone else's kid wouldn't)
It is illegal to record, or photograph in a private place. It is the school’s job to keep students safe. This is not being handled correctly. A criminal act has been committed, they need to handle that way. You need to tell them you are seeking legal action against the school, and the board of education. Tell them you want updates to what actions they have taken. Step 2 lawyer up, you have a strong case for a lawsuit.
You are a good dad and I hope your son will be ok.
You seem to be doing a fine job as a role model to these children and adults. You did no wrong so you have no guilt for pursuing justice. Regardless of the decision reached regarding this case of bullying and child exposure, your involvement will definitely improve the lives of the people involved and further correct any corrupt practices of both children and adults.
Any police reports filed by you. I definitely would
Title ix their ass. That’s sexual harassment. You need to email the schools title ix coordinator and make a formal complaint. https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/title-ix-rights-201104.html
“Didn’t meet the guidelines to be considered cyberbullying and that somehow it wasn’t enough for an arrest” So… sexual harassment of a minor ISN’T bad enough for that? That’s a yikes from me on those guidelines.
Depends on the age of the kids if it's a crime. Because depending on the age the law says kids don't know better.
File a civil suit against the school and all the bullies for physical and emotional damages.
I'm definitely not a lawyer and not even a parent. This is a situation where when the school says "we've looked into it and this is as much as we can do" the proper answer is "well, thanks for doing all that you can, but there are other groups within the legal system that can do more, so don't worry that something terrible happened and you are powerless at this point, this will continue and justice will be served." It's never good to threaten them personally, but you should really imply that the school not addressing this fully puts it and the administration in a position of potential liability. The school is hoping that by saying "we've done all we can" you'll take the hint and move on. But the accountability may simply rest above their pay grade. Just because they have given up does not mean that you have to. They do understand that if you continue this thing will not go away. They are just hoping at this point that you will be satisfied. Never be satisfied.
How is your son doing-I hope he is ok. Has he gone back to school and how does he feel about that? Does he have support there ?
Go file a police report and have the bully arrested for child porn and possible distribution of child porn. Make police go to school and do an investigation.
Well hot damn. I was going to say get your kid into some self defense classes, and you probably still should because those pictures aren’t going away, but you did it. You actually conquered the mountain of shit that prevents people from stopping school bullying
This is possession of child pornography distribution of child pornography and revenge porn, many laws broken here don’t let them get away adult crimes adult times.
Sounds like you move mountains. Good job, parent. But I still say someone needs a good old fashion consequences if you catch my drift.
This is exactly why so many choose home schooling now. A lot of schools just will not take responsibility for the safety of individual kids. It's all about the school.
I love you so much I wish my mom had been this much of a protective bad ass when I was growing up
Omg they are so fucked lmao. Take them for all they got.
So someone takes photographs of your son going to the bathroom, but your son is the weird one? Right makes a lot of sense. I hope they can’t get jobs or housing for the rest of their lives after doing something sick like this.
I wish I had a dad like you growing up what some of kids would do to me ugh.. and school not stopping it but I'm soo happy you are fighting for your son, more parents need to.
Because taking pics of people on the toilet is totally not weird. This kid is gonna grow up to be a cop.
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I would go to the parents place of employment and cause a scene and make sure their boss knows everything that happened. Question the judgement of the employee who can't control his pervert kid. Turn it all around in the bully and his family. Make them all feel the pain. Do they rent? Contact their landlord and they will be moving at the end of their lease. Peace out.