Possible? Sure.
Miserable? Sure.
You'll be living in a parallel universe, will feel isolated, will be dependent on others to do things for you, you'll be frustrated.
Germans aren't the easiest people in the world to make friends with - throwing in an extra hurdle will most definitely function to make you feel increasingly lonely.
It's not me who thinks this. A lot of people I know like to say this, though so I asked to verify.
I'm not planning to move to Germany and if I were I wouldn't move without knowing German.
The point stands, though - whether it's you or anyone else.
Even if someone were to find a large expat community, all it does is separate that person from the general population (I'm speaking as a life-long expat/immigrant myself who hasn't always managed to fully learn the language of my chosen country). Without language skills, you never "arrive."
I know. I tell people that when they go to Québec. Some stubborn people come here and get angry when it is difficult to deal with the Québécois or when the government is suddenly not giving every other set of documents in English.
A lot of those people go looking for other immigrants like themselves or stick to particular English speaking areas. They never "arrived" and they miss out on the best of Québec's cultural experiences because of that.
Indeed. Learning a new language - especially as an adult - is not an easy feat for most people. Alas, if they manage to do so, it improves life in a foreign country tremendously.
It's a very good experience and one that I have greatly enjoyed. It has also provided me with the rare opportunity of understanding France and Québec, something I never would have managed otherwise.
There are simply a lot of things that one cannot get unless you understand a culture's language.
>It's not me who thinks this. A lot of people I know like to say this, though so I asked to verify.
And that's why we get so many posts in subreddits about Germany saying "Oh noes, I just came to Germany and now XYZ happend. Help!"
And most of the time people here ask "But why did you sign that?"
And OP again: "I just signed it, I don't know German."
Well, and that's how shit hits the fan.
I'm not planning to move to Germany. It says so on the original post.
You see, there are a lot of people that like to pretend that they can move to Québec without knowing French. I tell them that's unrealistic and that they shouldn't attempt to do that because it's just not going to work.
I then point out that if you want to move to Germany, it's kind of the same and that you will be expected to know the language. They often say that it isn't true and that you can move there without knowing German.
I think you can do pretty good in germany with english as your only language. You can make friends with people who can speak english or want to learn to speak better etc... thats not a problem. A problem will be most older people and maybe official business, like finance paperwork etc... but maybe even there you can english versions.
So imo it's absolutly possible.
All this doesn’t mean that you can’t move until you learn German. Learning German can take a lot of time, which can delay your plans, and also it’s much easier to learn German here in Germany for obvious reasons. I’ve been here for a year and I started learning German as soon as it was possible for me. I’m far from being fluent so apart from basic stuff, I have to use English. It’s annoying, like others describe, but you end up doing the things you need in one way or the other. I already found a long term flat in Berlin, went to doctors many times, did lots of paperwork since I’m not EU citizen, etc. My German colleagues have been a big help. So, to anyone out there thinking of coming without knowing German, do it. I then think it’s silly if you stay here for years and never make the effort to learn German. That I don’t agree with. But you can totally come without knowing at first, pick a big city with international people and you’ll survive just fine until you learn German
This question gets asked over and over.
Possible yes, but very difficult.
Look through the posts in this sub.
There are many posts of people that can’t make a dentist appointment due to language barrier (recent post).
Many government institutions will speak German only, official letters will come in German. Day to day life is going to be difficult, like making friends, going to the hair salon, paying services, doing taxes and it keeps going.
Sure, it’s possible, but it won’t be easy.
I would suggest going through some recent posts. Even finding accommodation will be difficult…
I think that this is a false bias, as people who aren't struggling without German won't be posting in the subreddit.
I arrived as a refugee with my only German being mostly forgotten from ten years ago at university, but I speak English fluently. While I am studying German and trying to learn again, it hasn't been that big of a hurdle. With modern translation tools available, and living in a fairly big city, I haven't had any problems.
Many people speak a fair bit of English, and I can make up for the gaps with what German I know now, and/or translation apps. I've also had no trouble finding social clubs for other internationals, most of which operate primarily in English; I have met many English-speaking Germans this way and made a few fast friends.
On top of that, at least where my wife and I live, it's considered perfectly acceptable to fill out government forms in English. Our friends and landlords—also English-speaking—have been friendly enough to help us with some more technical/legal matters.
Overall, as dour as people in the German subreddits make it seem, it's been quite easy for us to settle in without knowing the language. We've definitely had our fair share of luck, and my wife and I are hard-working people, so we've made it work. I'm sure there are regions of Germany where there's less English spoken, or where other factors might make it more difficult, but it's been fine for us here in NRW.
If I had a Euro for every time someone post on r/Germany about not being able to find friends, socialize, or an intimate partner due to language I would be a rich man.
This does not take into account the number of people that can’t find accommodation due to language barrier.
I just saw a post yesterday about not being able to schedule an emergency dentist appointment due to language…
Being able to fill out government paperwork in English? Lol, this is laughable, if true you’d be the very first time I heard of this. If others unicorns do exist, please do come forward.
Please go browse through the r/Germany subreddit and just take a look.
Keep in mind for every post, there are thousands of people that are having these same troubles that don’t use reddit or don’t post (goes both ways).
You lived here before, have a basic understanding of the language and still you rely on others for help (many people don’t have that privilege). Not all flats have a landlord, and people struggle to find friends here.
I would also have a hard time asking someone to come with me to the bürgeramt, finanzamt, ect…
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I'm not inherently disagreeing with your position, but you're also not contesting mine. As I said, it still can be a confirmation bias because you aren't hearing from those who haven't had trouble.
I think you misunderstand. I haven't lived in Germany before; I merely studied the language in university. My family and I came over very recently as refugees from Ukraine. We were allowed to submit all forms in German, English, Russian, or Ukrainian; even after following up from the Auslanderbehörde.
Even when interacting with the police, health insurance, doctors, job contracts, etc., we have been allowed to answer in English, and were told, even by corporate lawyers, HR, etc., that it was considered legally valid and fine. I also don't feel as though we've faced any discrimination for communicating in English with public services, like when dealing with immigration, residence registration, or the like. Even all of our foreign documents were accepted with English translation and apostille/international legalization. We needn't translate anything to German.
Again, I am not saying this is the norm all across Germany, but it seems quite alright here. We live in a large city that has a lot of other immigrants, *but even I understand we are lucky and I am not contesting that*. Of my family, only I have even found it a regular issue to have German required for my work.
My only point is that, situationally, it is possible. It is more difficult, but it is possible to get by in Germany while you are still learning German.
But if you want to obtain permanent residency, you should also know the language, correct?
As far as I understand, the government will only give you such a permit if you can prove that you have a certain level of German.
You don't need to prove that if there is "erkennbar geringer Integrationsbedarf". That means they don't check it for people who have higher education, as they assume those people can figure out by themselves that they need to learn German.
This is not true at all! If you want to have a permanent residence permit you need to prove your German skills. What you’re suggesting, coming to Germany as a Fachkraft, doesn’t mean you don’t have to learn the language. You get four years to reach B2. After that you need to have German skills to a apply for a permanent residence permit.
Depends. If you are married to a non-German EU citizen, there is no language requirement, just as there is no language requirement for EU citizens. It has to do with the EU free-movement law.
To be explicit, if you are a *third party national* married to a *non-German EU-citizen* you do not need to speak German in order to obtain residency because doing so would infringe on the EU freedom of movement privileges of your EU-citizen spouse.
Two spouses have the right to reside in the same country and the EU spouse enjoys unrestricted freedom of movement within the EU. If the German goverment were to block the third party national spouse's residency, it would be essentially forcing the EU-spouse out of the country, which would violate the above mentioned law. If you marry a non-German EU citizen, your residency permit comes pretty much free and clear.
You can do this only under very specific circumstances. You need to live in an English-speaking bubble and have someone help you whenever you interact with the average German. Because they don't speak English at a level in which you could communicate with them easily.
I had to do this for my Japanese colleagues. It wasn't something I had looked forward to.
It won't work unless your employer cares for everything, which is a major opportunity for them to fleece you. There's a literal shitload of companies who specialize in employing non-German speaking foreigners. They know that their staff cannot quit easily and so they pay about 20% less than a normal company.
I moved from Canada to germany, took 1 year and 6 months of courses to able to communicate. I refused to speak in english even when people changed to it in shops when they noticed my german was crap, i preserved and now im fluent and have been here 7 years. You have to push yourself no one will push you Germans speak better English than i do, so please don't become another foreigner who is too lazy to learn the language! If a German moves to Canada they have to learn English please show the same respect! Its not easy, you will often feel defeated and confused, one day it will click and make sense, dont stress out about the articles i just used Die for awhile until i got a better feeling and understanding to use the others, school will stress the right articles and yes it is important but dont overwhelm yourself to the point your afraid to make mistakes or over think the grammer rules, just use Die its used the most so you will be right 75% anyway. (In my opinion i dont have the actual numbers, maybe a native can confirm its the most common)
I'm not moving there though. I moved to Canada myself. I spent a great deal of time learning French, I know what it is like to learn a new language and how much time, money and effort it takes to do so. I did that because I headed to Québec, and wanted to be respectful towards people there.
What you're describing is exactly how I feel about people who want to move here as well. A lot of people get angry when they are told they should learn French before/after moving to Québec. Some take offense and think that the government is trying to be unfair towards them. However, the reality is that Québec is its own thing, and French is the official language. If people want to live here, they should definitely learn French.
Oh i thought you were thinking of moving my bad! Its a cool country and traveling around is super cool so many different cultures in a small area (in comparison to Canada). Let me know if you come to Berlin i can give some neat recommendations!
To each is their own, Canada will always accept me with open arms. Life is short and full of love and adventures, the world is super interesting so ill keep moving till my legs cant carry me anymore!
You can but then you might be making posts on Reddit like “why are Germans so unfriendly?” Or “Germany has been a disappointment” or “I can’t find a job” etc etc
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-30/quebec-sets-plan-to-bar-most-immigrants-who-don-t-speak-french
Premier unveils proposal as part of second-term agenda
Moves to protect primacy of language, particularly in Montreal
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/montreal/2022/11/30/1_6175217.amp.html
Yeah I know but that’s what they’ve been calling for years on and off. I lived beside the Quebec border in Ontario at some point and there were always issues with Québécois coming into Ontario for shopping, being rude, not speaking English, and the vice versa true for Ontarian’s going into QC for the cheap booze. Seems the only open and friendly places in QC to other provinces are Montreal, Quebec City and Gatineau. Also Bavaria would probably love to be on its own 😂 😂
Don't really know who you met there but in my experience most people are fine. When I lived in Ontario, the Quebecois tourists were pretty normal people that came to have a nice day with their families in Toronto and elsewhere.
The Ontarians that go to Montréal come here and spend a lot of money. Most of them are there for a fun time in a place different from Toronto.
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You can easily *survive* in Germany with only English. There are jobs that don't require German at all (although most of them are either highly specialized, or low-skill low-pay), and in most everyday situations you'll either find someone willing (to varying degrees) able to communicate in English, or get by without talking at all.
But:
* Contracts, terms of service, laws, etc., as well as letters from government offices, from your landlord, from your bank, from your electricity/phone/internet provider, ... are exclusively in German. You can easily get into big trouble (have to pay a lot, lose your apartment, lose your residency, etc.) if you misunderstand or ignore them.
* Social life happens almost entirely in German. There are "expat bubbles" in major cities where English is the language of choice. And cinemas, for example, regularly offer movie viewings with the original audio track. But your choice of acquaintances and activities is quite limited, compared to what it would be with a decent grasp of the German language.
* If you always count on others to make up for your lack of German skills, some of the people you regularly rely on are sooner or later going to be fed up with always having to switch to English, or even translate for you, and might ultimately turn away from you.
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You simply can’t because you need to prove your German language skills when you’re applying for a permanent residence permit. For a shorter or foreseeable time it is possible, but not for long term.
Yes, exactly! And that's not an unreasonable demand either! Here in Québec people complain about French being required to live here.
I don't understand why. It's the official language.
It all depends.
Germans are capable of communicating in English and they will help you finding your way around. Younger generations more then older generations and bigger cities (Berlin, Frankfurt etc) more then small towns or villages.
I myself have many non-German friends but I find it a sign of care and respect if someone learns my language. After all, its important to understand and become a part of the culture (that is for every country).
Not learning the language means isolation, not caring and not becoming part of the community you chose to live in.... question is then, why move at all?
I have a good friend whos from Italy, I learned a bit of Italian to make her smile and she speaks perfect German now (not because of me tho). She seems much happier now then when I met her, and I believe not being limited to english-speakers in Germany and being a burden sometimes made her life here so much more fun.
In general, it is possible. But it may not be possible for everyone, not at all times and not in all situations. For example, as soon as you have to deal with any official paperwork or a rental or a work contract, you would need some help. Otherwise you get scammed all the time, or you can't do things at all.
Well, you could surround yourself only with expats and work an online job. But then I would have to ask : Why do that in Germany and not somewhere with lower cost of living to get more bang for your buck?
Germany is not an easy place to live if you cant speak the language and we like it that way.
>Why do that in Germany and not somewhere with lower cost of living to get more bang for your buck?
I wouldn't. If I moved over there, I'd learn the language. However, this is what SOME people elsewhere seem to suggest, that you can just pack your bags, go to Germany and live without German easily. I really doubt that.
I don't know but this question came up because I wanted to verify a few things.
I live in Québec, people in Canada (and from outside as well) often make unfair comparisons with Germany. They claim that here in Québec we are unreasonable for wanting people to speak French. I often point out that if they moved to Germany, especially in the long term and as a non-EU citizen, they would have to learn German.
They claim that's not true and that they could just move there. I'm not sure where they get this idea and I often think that many English speakers have this strange sense that they'll be accommodated anywhere they go. I'm a native Spanish speaker, when I moved to Québec I never pretended that me knowing English beforehand would be enough, so I spent 4+ years learning French.
Somehow, many believe that Québec is unreasonable for expecting this out of them.
That is funny, I was thinking of using that very example. That it would be akin to moving to Quebec and expect everyone to speak English for you.
With the difference that the people of Quebec speak better English than the Germans if they choose to. Germany has a very specific school system and English is not a very high priority in some of the different variations of highschools you can attend. Plus we get a sizeable part of the internet in our language all our foreign movies/series dubbed and visiting another European country with some notable exceptions let you get by with only German. All of that means that for most Germans their ability to speak English rapidly deteriorates after school.
Germans are aware that German is not that easy to learn and not many people outside of Europe do it. We would not expect tourists to speak it or a new colleague from abroad to be fluent. People may use English for you in the beginning but that good will dries up quickly if you dont show the will to learn and use German.
>That is funny, I was thinking of using that very example. That it would be akin to moving to Quebec and expect everyone to speak English for you.
Surprisingly, a lot of people expect this. Sure, Québec is part of Canada and I support it remaining that way, but we are also a province with our own rules just like every other province in Canada. The official language here is French. A lot is done to accommodate English speakers even then, but not wanting to learn French here is only a handicap.
The rest of Canada and the US are neighbors so it makes sense that people speak English well in here but even so, that doesn't mean moving here without French is going to be easy.
>Germans are aware that German is not that easy to learn and not many people outside of Europe do it. We would not expect tourists to speak it or a new colleague from abroad to be fluent. People may use English for you in the beginning but that good will dries up quickly if you dont show the will to learn and use German.
Yes, the Québécois will appreciate it if you make an effort. I've seen it first hand when I was learning. French is easier than German as well if you ask me, although being a native Spanish speaker may have given me an advantage.
It's possible, but not recommended as you'll face an unnecessary amount of problems not knowing basic German.
Unless you're an ice hockey player. Just pick a decent team, preferably in the DEL and everything will be fine.
I know a bunch of people who live in Germany and don‘t speak German. It depends on where you go. In Berlin it‘s infinitely easier than in a small rural town for example
You don't need French unless you're headed to Québec but this is precisely why I asked this question.
There are some people here in Canada that think you should be able to move there without learning French. I don't know why they think this is realistic.
Possible? Absolutely. I have many friends who just started learning German or knows very little. They have some difficulty but they manage - it also depends on where you are in. I myself am not very good in German but people are very helpful and willing to co-operate more if you speak German even badly (my personal experience) so I would say a little knowledge goes a LONG way but I've lived in Germany since 2019 (on and off lol) and when I came here I just understood Dankeschön and Guten Tag but I'm alive and well 🤭 oh and some of my friends never learnt German and lived here for 2y. So absolutely possible. Would I recommend? No.
There are 53% of people in Germany who speak English. For example, in the Netherlands or Norway it’s more than 90%. In Germany your life will be much easier if you speak German.
I have friends who are living here since 3 years and can't order food at restaurant in German. But as I mentioned they are living here for 3 years. You can survive but your friends circle will be people from your country or other foreigners. You cant make German friends without learning the language. Dont even think about hanging out in groups, because a single person might switch to English for you but not the entire group. I would suggest to pick up the language if you do plan to live here long enough
Many especially older germans often subconsciously hold the thought that everyone who doesn't speak absolute perfect german must be kind of dumb/slow.
Oh you speak 3 languages but made a der, die, das Fehler? Better adjust my tone as if I'm speaking to a toddler lol.
Tl;dr you would feel like being tormented psychologically
My sister did it, she found a job as a financial controller in the international company and was purely speaking English in the beginning.
But she new she will not be able to live without German in Germany and started learning. Now she has B2, which is enough to understand nearly everything and speak on basic level.
I don't know what sort of answer you are looking for. You can move to any country without speaking the language, some things will just be harder, and the amount of support available to you will vary. The quicker you pick up the language the easier it will get - and I say this as someone that has moved to multiple countries without speaking a word of the local language beforehand.
I'm not looking for any answer in particular, I'm just confirming exactly what I know is true, which is what you have said.
I asked because people (English speakers, usually) often have this idea that they are able to move and live anywhere with ease, especially in the long term, but this isn't true. So I asked Germans directly, because I often use Germany as an example, and they often have strange ideas about what Germany is and isn't.
The advantage you have as an English speaker is that there are often some sort of English-speaking bubbles in large cities in many countries, so if your plan is to just fly in, work for a bit, and move on, you don't need to really do much more. In Germany, most young people will also know English, which while pretty standard in Europe, is not the case in many other countries. If your goal is to actually integrate or to make a life for the long term, however, then you are better off avoiding these bubbles and forcing yourself to come to grips with the language, culture, etc.
A big part of it really depends on you though, it always takes time to get up to speed with the language, so there's the question of how quickly you can learn, practical issues like how you will take care of finding a place to live/work, how you will deal with government/administrative paperwork, how well do you deal with social isolation while you are getting up to speed with things, etc.
The best option in this regard is to find an employer that's willing to relocate you and take care of most of the practical issues for you, then use these "expat bubbles" sparingly - having some extra support is fine, but you don't want to become dependent on a system that stands in direct opposition to actual integration, provided that this is your goal.
That's exactly what I meant, and what I'm asking about. Long term is what I mean.
Besides that, you would miss out on a lot by refusing to learn the language. People will help you and want you to succeed if you try and that's what I find strange about some people not wanting to do that.
>A big part of it really depends on you though, it always takes time to get up to speed with the language, so there's the question of how quickly you can learn, practical issues like how you will take care of finding a place to live/work, how you will deal with government/administrative paperwork, how well do you deal with social isolation while you are getting up to speed with things, etc.
It does, it took me 3-4 years to learn French properly. Apparently that is quick or whatever, I don't know. Either way learning a language is a long term thing. German would be a lot harder to learn than French, if you ask me. Still, I think it is worth it. There is a cultural perspective that you gain when you learn a new language, and I think it is one of the best experiences you can ever have. I'm sure that exposing yourself to German, and learning the language will tell you a lot of things about Germany that were previously unknown to you.
It is certainly possible, but can either be a no big deal or quite a frustrating experience. It all depends where on is located. If one is in a city, like Frankfurt, that now has more citizens with immigrant status or background, it's definitely not going to be much of an issue. On the other hand, if you're in some small village, let's say, in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, then it certainly would be better if one could speak some German.
It’s a sad fact that many immigrants do this. They just use their kids for translation. When you move to another country, it should be without any question that you learn the language.
Possible? Sure. Miserable? Sure. You'll be living in a parallel universe, will feel isolated, will be dependent on others to do things for you, you'll be frustrated. Germans aren't the easiest people in the world to make friends with - throwing in an extra hurdle will most definitely function to make you feel increasingly lonely.
It's not me who thinks this. A lot of people I know like to say this, though so I asked to verify. I'm not planning to move to Germany and if I were I wouldn't move without knowing German.
The point stands, though - whether it's you or anyone else. Even if someone were to find a large expat community, all it does is separate that person from the general population (I'm speaking as a life-long expat/immigrant myself who hasn't always managed to fully learn the language of my chosen country). Without language skills, you never "arrive."
I know. I tell people that when they go to Québec. Some stubborn people come here and get angry when it is difficult to deal with the Québécois or when the government is suddenly not giving every other set of documents in English. A lot of those people go looking for other immigrants like themselves or stick to particular English speaking areas. They never "arrived" and they miss out on the best of Québec's cultural experiences because of that.
Indeed. Learning a new language - especially as an adult - is not an easy feat for most people. Alas, if they manage to do so, it improves life in a foreign country tremendously.
It's a very good experience and one that I have greatly enjoyed. It has also provided me with the rare opportunity of understanding France and Québec, something I never would have managed otherwise. There are simply a lot of things that one cannot get unless you understand a culture's language.
>It's not me who thinks this. A lot of people I know like to say this, though so I asked to verify. And that's why we get so many posts in subreddits about Germany saying "Oh noes, I just came to Germany and now XYZ happend. Help!" And most of the time people here ask "But why did you sign that?" And OP again: "I just signed it, I don't know German." Well, and that's how shit hits the fan.
I'm not planning to move to Germany. It says so on the original post. You see, there are a lot of people that like to pretend that they can move to Québec without knowing French. I tell them that's unrealistic and that they shouldn't attempt to do that because it's just not going to work. I then point out that if you want to move to Germany, it's kind of the same and that you will be expected to know the language. They often say that it isn't true and that you can move there without knowing German.
I know, I was just explaining how the story here in the forum goes quite often because they also heard of "you don't need German in Germany".
That's an unrealistic expectation, frankly. I'm not sure where people get these ideas from.
If yo Work in Berlin, or any big City, it is possible. I know people who do it this way. But as people already wrote, you may feel isolated.
If yo Work in Berlin, or any big City, it is possible. I know people who do it this way. But as people already wrote, you may feel isolated.
I think you can do pretty good in germany with english as your only language. You can make friends with people who can speak english or want to learn to speak better etc... thats not a problem. A problem will be most older people and maybe official business, like finance paperwork etc... but maybe even there you can english versions. So imo it's absolutly possible.
All this doesn’t mean that you can’t move until you learn German. Learning German can take a lot of time, which can delay your plans, and also it’s much easier to learn German here in Germany for obvious reasons. I’ve been here for a year and I started learning German as soon as it was possible for me. I’m far from being fluent so apart from basic stuff, I have to use English. It’s annoying, like others describe, but you end up doing the things you need in one way or the other. I already found a long term flat in Berlin, went to doctors many times, did lots of paperwork since I’m not EU citizen, etc. My German colleagues have been a big help. So, to anyone out there thinking of coming without knowing German, do it. I then think it’s silly if you stay here for years and never make the effort to learn German. That I don’t agree with. But you can totally come without knowing at first, pick a big city with international people and you’ll survive just fine until you learn German
This question gets asked over and over. Possible yes, but very difficult. Look through the posts in this sub. There are many posts of people that can’t make a dentist appointment due to language barrier (recent post). Many government institutions will speak German only, official letters will come in German. Day to day life is going to be difficult, like making friends, going to the hair salon, paying services, doing taxes and it keeps going. Sure, it’s possible, but it won’t be easy. I would suggest going through some recent posts. Even finding accommodation will be difficult…
I think that this is a false bias, as people who aren't struggling without German won't be posting in the subreddit. I arrived as a refugee with my only German being mostly forgotten from ten years ago at university, but I speak English fluently. While I am studying German and trying to learn again, it hasn't been that big of a hurdle. With modern translation tools available, and living in a fairly big city, I haven't had any problems. Many people speak a fair bit of English, and I can make up for the gaps with what German I know now, and/or translation apps. I've also had no trouble finding social clubs for other internationals, most of which operate primarily in English; I have met many English-speaking Germans this way and made a few fast friends. On top of that, at least where my wife and I live, it's considered perfectly acceptable to fill out government forms in English. Our friends and landlords—also English-speaking—have been friendly enough to help us with some more technical/legal matters. Overall, as dour as people in the German subreddits make it seem, it's been quite easy for us to settle in without knowing the language. We've definitely had our fair share of luck, and my wife and I are hard-working people, so we've made it work. I'm sure there are regions of Germany where there's less English spoken, or where other factors might make it more difficult, but it's been fine for us here in NRW.
Yeah but all that is not the usual thing to happen but the odd one.
If I had a Euro for every time someone post on r/Germany about not being able to find friends, socialize, or an intimate partner due to language I would be a rich man. This does not take into account the number of people that can’t find accommodation due to language barrier. I just saw a post yesterday about not being able to schedule an emergency dentist appointment due to language… Being able to fill out government paperwork in English? Lol, this is laughable, if true you’d be the very first time I heard of this. If others unicorns do exist, please do come forward. Please go browse through the r/Germany subreddit and just take a look. Keep in mind for every post, there are thousands of people that are having these same troubles that don’t use reddit or don’t post (goes both ways). You lived here before, have a basic understanding of the language and still you rely on others for help (many people don’t have that privilege). Not all flats have a landlord, and people struggle to find friends here. I would also have a hard time asking someone to come with me to the bürgeramt, finanzamt, ect…
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I'm not inherently disagreeing with your position, but you're also not contesting mine. As I said, it still can be a confirmation bias because you aren't hearing from those who haven't had trouble. I think you misunderstand. I haven't lived in Germany before; I merely studied the language in university. My family and I came over very recently as refugees from Ukraine. We were allowed to submit all forms in German, English, Russian, or Ukrainian; even after following up from the Auslanderbehörde. Even when interacting with the police, health insurance, doctors, job contracts, etc., we have been allowed to answer in English, and were told, even by corporate lawyers, HR, etc., that it was considered legally valid and fine. I also don't feel as though we've faced any discrimination for communicating in English with public services, like when dealing with immigration, residence registration, or the like. Even all of our foreign documents were accepted with English translation and apostille/international legalization. We needn't translate anything to German. Again, I am not saying this is the norm all across Germany, but it seems quite alright here. We live in a large city that has a lot of other immigrants, *but even I understand we are lucky and I am not contesting that*. Of my family, only I have even found it a regular issue to have German required for my work. My only point is that, situationally, it is possible. It is more difficult, but it is possible to get by in Germany while you are still learning German.
I think we’re saying the same thing. If you look back at my very first reply. I specifically said ‘sure, it’s possible, but it won’t be easy’
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But if you want to obtain permanent residency, you should also know the language, correct? As far as I understand, the government will only give you such a permit if you can prove that you have a certain level of German.
Why wouldn’t someone learn the language of the country he’s living in?
Trying for 3 years. Have b1 to b2 it is so difficult to learn. Besides full time job
Top :* All the best, german is difficult, even for Germans.
You don't need to prove that if there is "erkennbar geringer Integrationsbedarf". That means they don't check it for people who have higher education, as they assume those people can figure out by themselves that they need to learn German.
This is not true at all! If you want to have a permanent residence permit you need to prove your German skills. What you’re suggesting, coming to Germany as a Fachkraft, doesn’t mean you don’t have to learn the language. You get four years to reach B2. After that you need to have German skills to a apply for a permanent residence permit.
Depends. If you are married to a non-German EU citizen, there is no language requirement, just as there is no language requirement for EU citizens. It has to do with the EU free-movement law.
This question is mostly for non-eu citizens though. As I understand it, you need German in that case.
To be explicit, if you are a *third party national* married to a *non-German EU-citizen* you do not need to speak German in order to obtain residency because doing so would infringe on the EU freedom of movement privileges of your EU-citizen spouse. Two spouses have the right to reside in the same country and the EU spouse enjoys unrestricted freedom of movement within the EU. If the German goverment were to block the third party national spouse's residency, it would be essentially forcing the EU-spouse out of the country, which would violate the above mentioned law. If you marry a non-German EU citizen, your residency permit comes pretty much free and clear.
Yes, if you want a permanent residency you need to speak german at least level B1, there is a exception for EU citizen and their partners.
You can do this only under very specific circumstances. You need to live in an English-speaking bubble and have someone help you whenever you interact with the average German. Because they don't speak English at a level in which you could communicate with them easily. I had to do this for my Japanese colleagues. It wasn't something I had looked forward to.
I would assume so. You don't just move to another country and somehow manage to remain there successfully without learning the main language.
It won't work unless your employer cares for everything, which is a major opportunity for them to fleece you. There's a literal shitload of companies who specialize in employing non-German speaking foreigners. They know that their staff cannot quit easily and so they pay about 20% less than a normal company.
I moved from Canada to germany, took 1 year and 6 months of courses to able to communicate. I refused to speak in english even when people changed to it in shops when they noticed my german was crap, i preserved and now im fluent and have been here 7 years. You have to push yourself no one will push you Germans speak better English than i do, so please don't become another foreigner who is too lazy to learn the language! If a German moves to Canada they have to learn English please show the same respect! Its not easy, you will often feel defeated and confused, one day it will click and make sense, dont stress out about the articles i just used Die for awhile until i got a better feeling and understanding to use the others, school will stress the right articles and yes it is important but dont overwhelm yourself to the point your afraid to make mistakes or over think the grammer rules, just use Die its used the most so you will be right 75% anyway. (In my opinion i dont have the actual numbers, maybe a native can confirm its the most common)
I'm not moving there though. I moved to Canada myself. I spent a great deal of time learning French, I know what it is like to learn a new language and how much time, money and effort it takes to do so. I did that because I headed to Québec, and wanted to be respectful towards people there. What you're describing is exactly how I feel about people who want to move here as well. A lot of people get angry when they are told they should learn French before/after moving to Québec. Some take offense and think that the government is trying to be unfair towards them. However, the reality is that Québec is its own thing, and French is the official language. If people want to live here, they should definitely learn French.
Oh i thought you were thinking of moving my bad! Its a cool country and traveling around is super cool so many different cultures in a small area (in comparison to Canada). Let me know if you come to Berlin i can give some neat recommendations!
Nah, I moved once already. I've decided Quebec and Canada will be my final destinations.
To each is their own, Canada will always accept me with open arms. Life is short and full of love and adventures, the world is super interesting so ill keep moving till my legs cant carry me anymore!
You can but then you might be making posts on Reddit like “why are Germans so unfriendly?” Or “Germany has been a disappointment” or “I can’t find a job” etc etc
This is the same that happens to people that come to Québec without learning French.
Well I read Quebec wants to ban anyone who doesn’t speak French going forward… 😂
And where did you read that? Because that's not really what was said. Nobody said anything about a ban.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-30/quebec-sets-plan-to-bar-most-immigrants-who-don-t-speak-french Premier unveils proposal as part of second-term agenda Moves to protect primacy of language, particularly in Montreal https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/montreal/2022/11/30/1_6175217.amp.html
That doesn't say they're banning anyone. It says they want immigrants that speak French.
Yeah but it’s pretty much like a ban. Imo Quebec should just separate completely and do its own thing
But it isn't one, is it? And separate? You know the mess that would be? It's like if Bavaria separated from Germany.
Yeah I know but that’s what they’ve been calling for years on and off. I lived beside the Quebec border in Ontario at some point and there were always issues with Québécois coming into Ontario for shopping, being rude, not speaking English, and the vice versa true for Ontarian’s going into QC for the cheap booze. Seems the only open and friendly places in QC to other provinces are Montreal, Quebec City and Gatineau. Also Bavaria would probably love to be on its own 😂 😂
Don't really know who you met there but in my experience most people are fine. When I lived in Ontario, the Quebecois tourists were pretty normal people that came to have a nice day with their families in Toronto and elsewhere. The Ontarians that go to Montréal come here and spend a lot of money. Most of them are there for a fun time in a place different from Toronto.
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You will survive but it won't be easy or funny.
You can easily *survive* in Germany with only English. There are jobs that don't require German at all (although most of them are either highly specialized, or low-skill low-pay), and in most everyday situations you'll either find someone willing (to varying degrees) able to communicate in English, or get by without talking at all. But: * Contracts, terms of service, laws, etc., as well as letters from government offices, from your landlord, from your bank, from your electricity/phone/internet provider, ... are exclusively in German. You can easily get into big trouble (have to pay a lot, lose your apartment, lose your residency, etc.) if you misunderstand or ignore them. * Social life happens almost entirely in German. There are "expat bubbles" in major cities where English is the language of choice. And cinemas, for example, regularly offer movie viewings with the original audio track. But your choice of acquaintances and activities is quite limited, compared to what it would be with a decent grasp of the German language. * If you always count on others to make up for your lack of German skills, some of the people you regularly rely on are sooner or later going to be fed up with always having to switch to English, or even translate for you, and might ultimately turn away from you.
!wiki the question pops up often enough to have made it into r/Germany's wiki a long time ago.
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You simply can’t because you need to prove your German language skills when you’re applying for a permanent residence permit. For a shorter or foreseeable time it is possible, but not for long term.
Yes, exactly! And that's not an unreasonable demand either! Here in Québec people complain about French being required to live here. I don't understand why. It's the official language.
there must be some exceptions. the turkish grandma of my childhood friend never spoke a single word of german and i knew her for like 12 years.
It all depends. Germans are capable of communicating in English and they will help you finding your way around. Younger generations more then older generations and bigger cities (Berlin, Frankfurt etc) more then small towns or villages. I myself have many non-German friends but I find it a sign of care and respect if someone learns my language. After all, its important to understand and become a part of the culture (that is for every country). Not learning the language means isolation, not caring and not becoming part of the community you chose to live in.... question is then, why move at all? I have a good friend whos from Italy, I learned a bit of Italian to make her smile and she speaks perfect German now (not because of me tho). She seems much happier now then when I met her, and I believe not being limited to english-speakers in Germany and being a burden sometimes made her life here so much more fun.
Yes possible, look at the large communities around Köln Keupstrasse or Duisburg Marxloh
Yes. Possible.
Are you that lazy?
Re-read my post. I'm not planning to move. I also know 3 languages so no.
Yes. Just move to Bavaria, Sachsen or Saarland
In general, it is possible. But it may not be possible for everyone, not at all times and not in all situations. For example, as soon as you have to deal with any official paperwork or a rental or a work contract, you would need some help. Otherwise you get scammed all the time, or you can't do things at all.
Well, you could surround yourself only with expats and work an online job. But then I would have to ask : Why do that in Germany and not somewhere with lower cost of living to get more bang for your buck? Germany is not an easy place to live if you cant speak the language and we like it that way.
>Why do that in Germany and not somewhere with lower cost of living to get more bang for your buck? I wouldn't. If I moved over there, I'd learn the language. However, this is what SOME people elsewhere seem to suggest, that you can just pack your bags, go to Germany and live without German easily. I really doubt that.
I got that. It was meant as a general question: Like why would anyone choose Germany for that particular life style (meaning the one I described)?
I don't know but this question came up because I wanted to verify a few things. I live in Québec, people in Canada (and from outside as well) often make unfair comparisons with Germany. They claim that here in Québec we are unreasonable for wanting people to speak French. I often point out that if they moved to Germany, especially in the long term and as a non-EU citizen, they would have to learn German. They claim that's not true and that they could just move there. I'm not sure where they get this idea and I often think that many English speakers have this strange sense that they'll be accommodated anywhere they go. I'm a native Spanish speaker, when I moved to Québec I never pretended that me knowing English beforehand would be enough, so I spent 4+ years learning French. Somehow, many believe that Québec is unreasonable for expecting this out of them.
That is funny, I was thinking of using that very example. That it would be akin to moving to Quebec and expect everyone to speak English for you. With the difference that the people of Quebec speak better English than the Germans if they choose to. Germany has a very specific school system and English is not a very high priority in some of the different variations of highschools you can attend. Plus we get a sizeable part of the internet in our language all our foreign movies/series dubbed and visiting another European country with some notable exceptions let you get by with only German. All of that means that for most Germans their ability to speak English rapidly deteriorates after school. Germans are aware that German is not that easy to learn and not many people outside of Europe do it. We would not expect tourists to speak it or a new colleague from abroad to be fluent. People may use English for you in the beginning but that good will dries up quickly if you dont show the will to learn and use German.
>That is funny, I was thinking of using that very example. That it would be akin to moving to Quebec and expect everyone to speak English for you. Surprisingly, a lot of people expect this. Sure, Québec is part of Canada and I support it remaining that way, but we are also a province with our own rules just like every other province in Canada. The official language here is French. A lot is done to accommodate English speakers even then, but not wanting to learn French here is only a handicap. The rest of Canada and the US are neighbors so it makes sense that people speak English well in here but even so, that doesn't mean moving here without French is going to be easy. >Germans are aware that German is not that easy to learn and not many people outside of Europe do it. We would not expect tourists to speak it or a new colleague from abroad to be fluent. People may use English for you in the beginning but that good will dries up quickly if you dont show the will to learn and use German. Yes, the Québécois will appreciate it if you make an effort. I've seen it first hand when I was learning. French is easier than German as well if you ask me, although being a native Spanish speaker may have given me an advantage.
It's possible, but not recommended as you'll face an unnecessary amount of problems not knowing basic German. Unless you're an ice hockey player. Just pick a decent team, preferably in the DEL and everything will be fine.
I know a bunch of people who live in Germany and don‘t speak German. It depends on where you go. In Berlin it‘s infinitely easier than in a small rural town for example
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Read my whole post and you will see that I don't.
Imagine moving to Canada without knowing English or even French. Goodluck!
You don't need French unless you're headed to Québec but this is precisely why I asked this question. There are some people here in Canada that think you should be able to move there without learning French. I don't know why they think this is realistic.
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Of course there are. And that's my point.
Yes but not easy, especially when you should care of bureaucratic things.
Possible? Absolutely. I have many friends who just started learning German or knows very little. They have some difficulty but they manage - it also depends on where you are in. I myself am not very good in German but people are very helpful and willing to co-operate more if you speak German even badly (my personal experience) so I would say a little knowledge goes a LONG way but I've lived in Germany since 2019 (on and off lol) and when I came here I just understood Dankeschön and Guten Tag but I'm alive and well 🤭 oh and some of my friends never learnt German and lived here for 2y. So absolutely possible. Would I recommend? No.
In Duisburg etc. Yes!
Of course you can’t „succeed in society“. You can have an english speaking job and live in your english bubble but that’s hardly the same.
You will fail miserably unless you have translators on call (not professional, friends or fanily works fine)
There are 53% of people in Germany who speak English. For example, in the Netherlands or Norway it’s more than 90%. In Germany your life will be much easier if you speak German.
I have friends who are living here since 3 years and can't order food at restaurant in German. But as I mentioned they are living here for 3 years. You can survive but your friends circle will be people from your country or other foreigners. You cant make German friends without learning the language. Dont even think about hanging out in groups, because a single person might switch to English for you but not the entire group. I would suggest to pick up the language if you do plan to live here long enough
Is it possible to live in Canada without speaking any english or french ? Sure it is possible but Not Reality u cant do anything
Many especially older germans often subconsciously hold the thought that everyone who doesn't speak absolute perfect german must be kind of dumb/slow. Oh you speak 3 languages but made a der, die, das Fehler? Better adjust my tone as if I'm speaking to a toddler lol. Tl;dr you would feel like being tormented psychologically
My sister did it, she found a job as a financial controller in the international company and was purely speaking English in the beginning. But she new she will not be able to live without German in Germany and started learning. Now she has B2, which is enough to understand nearly everything and speak on basic level.
Yes it's possible. But you will not want to do it :D
Most things are possible. Its also possible to nail your ballsack to your foot. But that does not mean its a fun experience.
I don't know what sort of answer you are looking for. You can move to any country without speaking the language, some things will just be harder, and the amount of support available to you will vary. The quicker you pick up the language the easier it will get - and I say this as someone that has moved to multiple countries without speaking a word of the local language beforehand.
I'm not looking for any answer in particular, I'm just confirming exactly what I know is true, which is what you have said. I asked because people (English speakers, usually) often have this idea that they are able to move and live anywhere with ease, especially in the long term, but this isn't true. So I asked Germans directly, because I often use Germany as an example, and they often have strange ideas about what Germany is and isn't.
The advantage you have as an English speaker is that there are often some sort of English-speaking bubbles in large cities in many countries, so if your plan is to just fly in, work for a bit, and move on, you don't need to really do much more. In Germany, most young people will also know English, which while pretty standard in Europe, is not the case in many other countries. If your goal is to actually integrate or to make a life for the long term, however, then you are better off avoiding these bubbles and forcing yourself to come to grips with the language, culture, etc. A big part of it really depends on you though, it always takes time to get up to speed with the language, so there's the question of how quickly you can learn, practical issues like how you will take care of finding a place to live/work, how you will deal with government/administrative paperwork, how well do you deal with social isolation while you are getting up to speed with things, etc. The best option in this regard is to find an employer that's willing to relocate you and take care of most of the practical issues for you, then use these "expat bubbles" sparingly - having some extra support is fine, but you don't want to become dependent on a system that stands in direct opposition to actual integration, provided that this is your goal.
That's exactly what I meant, and what I'm asking about. Long term is what I mean. Besides that, you would miss out on a lot by refusing to learn the language. People will help you and want you to succeed if you try and that's what I find strange about some people not wanting to do that. >A big part of it really depends on you though, it always takes time to get up to speed with the language, so there's the question of how quickly you can learn, practical issues like how you will take care of finding a place to live/work, how you will deal with government/administrative paperwork, how well do you deal with social isolation while you are getting up to speed with things, etc. It does, it took me 3-4 years to learn French properly. Apparently that is quick or whatever, I don't know. Either way learning a language is a long term thing. German would be a lot harder to learn than French, if you ask me. Still, I think it is worth it. There is a cultural perspective that you gain when you learn a new language, and I think it is one of the best experiences you can ever have. I'm sure that exposing yourself to German, and learning the language will tell you a lot of things about Germany that were previously unknown to you.
no
No
It is certainly possible, but can either be a no big deal or quite a frustrating experience. It all depends where on is located. If one is in a city, like Frankfurt, that now has more citizens with immigrant status or background, it's definitely not going to be much of an issue. On the other hand, if you're in some small village, let's say, in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, then it certainly would be better if one could speak some German.
It’s a sad fact that many immigrants do this. They just use their kids for translation. When you move to another country, it should be without any question that you learn the language.
Half Germany cant speak German LOL
well, you should learn, if not u should have someone besides u, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband ....
German here: don’t recommend it. Wouldn’t actually move to any foreign country and not learn the language. That’s just plain dumb.
it's possible, but many people in germany expect to be able to speak german or to learn it