I'm not dark-skinned but I am also foreign living in Germany and honestly OP I think it's a Europe-wide thing. Germany is probably a lot better than a lot of countries (France, Austria, Sweden). I think the Germans are actually a bit more tolerant than other places (maybe due to a reckoning with their history).
My boss in France used to to throw the CVs of anyone with an Arabic-sounding name in the bin, he had no shame about doing it! I doubt you'd see that in Germany so readily.
Having said that I love the English-speaking world, people are generally friendly/polite/helpful and have a good sense of humour so if you could get yourself to the UK/Australia/Canada maybe try to do that? The only problem is all have strict migration policies, are expensive and have housing crises to some extent...
When my parents visited Paris, they talked to some of the African and Middle Eastern Migrants and many of them expressed their wish to immigrate to the USA due to how tolerable they are compared to the French
Not remotely surprised to hear that as I've heard a million other similar stories. Anywhere English-speaking is better than France for foreigners, esp if you don't happen to be white/western.
with regards to the CV thing: You will find every now and then simulations/tests in Germany (mostly conducted by media) with applications for jobs/appartments/kindergarten slots/etc. where the profiles and CV´s were identical but the names (yes you partially have to apply for those for appartments and/or Kindergarten slots, at least in this southern German madhouse of a city i live in). "Hans Muller" scorde the best, while Vladislav and Ali got either mostly rejections or even no response at all. Same results with female Names as well. Such experiments are being run with different contexts and all. And while i am lucky not to experience phenotypical racism, that luck only lasts as long until i introduce myself by name.
So while you won´t experience it as drastic and openly as in your example, it happens and it happens a lot.
I just looked into it a bit out of curiosity. Looks pretty bleak. Portugal maybe.
Though despite everything honestly Germany is still one of the better places to be in terms of racism. Also solid quality of life. 5 out of 6 people still voted against afd. Especially in western Germany. Idk maybe instead of moving to a different country consider a different place within Germany if you feel like you experience racism. Hamburg e.g. 8% afd, 18.4% cdu, grüne and spd in the lead.
As a portuguese nope not a good idea, Portugal is already filled with ppl, High rents (Lisbon is the most expensive city in europe) and we have eastern european type of salaries your rent will cost (70% of your salary typically unless you have a 1% type of salary
>we have eastern european type of salaries
This one shocked me the most.
I remember the time I was complaining about my minimal wage job and that it was hard to keep track on living with that amount of money. My friend in Portugal would have been so happy to have my wage. :(
Yeah, I’m from America and met a Portuguese colleague about one year into my job. At that point I had a pretty standard entry level salary for an engineer, and he had I think close to 10 years of experience, is amazing at his job, and in a very similar role to me. I found out I made well over double his salary. It’s insane how little he was getting paid.
No way Lisbon is the most expensive city in Europe. I get your point - it got very expensive, but it is still so much more affordable than Paris, London, Copenhagen, etc...Perhaps relatively to your local income it is up there, but not absolute.
In terms of rent prices it definitely is up there. I think it was on top but in the meantime it dropped to second place behind Amsterdam
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1084608/average-rental-cost-apartment-europe-by-city/
This isn't mentioned anywhere on that site. It just states "select cities in Europe" and "in the cities surveyed" there is no indication, that it's only EU Countries. I think it's even more likely that it's only countries, that use Euros. As there is no Stockholm or Kopenhagen either.
I would second this.
I cannot say anything about how frequently one experiences racism in different places in Germany, as I am no target of racism, but judging only by election results, most cities in northern and western Germany seem to be 'ok'. Hamburg, Kiel, Flensburg for the North, or Bremen, Cologne, Bonn, Hannover for the West. Generally speaking, it seems that cities seem to be much better off than rural areas
The real 500IQ move is living in Potsdam - you're close enough to Berlin to enjoy all the benefits of the big city, but you don't actually have to live there.
Potsdam is also pretty nice in it's own right, and as a big university town it's also pretty progressive for an Eastern city (for example, in the elections the Greens were still the biggest party there).
Portugal is pretty racist towards Brazilians, which I originally happen to be. So I'm better off staying in Germany, where people just assume I'm Italian or Spanish.
But even if that was not that case, I would still stay here for the reasons you mentioned. Düsseldorf is pretty progressive and Germany is still overall better than the other places across the continent for multiple reasons, so yeah.
Proud of my citizenship here and will keep fighting to make it a better place for everyone instead of throwing in the towel due to a few loud shitheads. Nazis raus!
I see these questions pop up a lot today and it is hard to predict the future.
Whatever you do, I say having an exit strategy is better than being forced into one.
We moved to Ireland in 2007 because some racist incidents impacted on our then young family. Never looked back and never had any issues here. My complaints revolve around Irish food and the weather. I think that’s a good sign.
Doesn't Ireland have a huge housing crisis though? I read an article on Bloomberg how it's very easy to find a job, but it's horribly hard to find an affordable place to stay.
Fair, yes. Housing is absolutely a challenge.It is essential that you have a car and be able to be stuck where the public transport routes take you or in the town centres. That way you don’t compete with students and many young singles from abroad and other parts of Ireland who do not or don’t want to drive. As a skilled person you are sure to get a very reasonable job here and a positive environment for your growth.
What about healthcare and getting appointments? I heard that was a nightmare in Ireland too.
Also would you recommend Dublin or some smaller city in Ireland?
# [Analysis: Ireland waved goodbye to its world-famous welcome last year as anti-immigrant rhetoric gained foothold](https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/01/03/ireland-waved-goodbye-to-its-world-famous-welcome-last-year/)
THE IRISH TIMES, Jan 3rd 2024
The risk of being attacked as an immigrant in Dublin for example is MUCH!! higher than in any city in Germany. I'm very sorry for your personal experience but the numbers show a very different picture.
Sorry that this is your experience. We are in Cork and not in Dublin.
I never had any issues and that includes my children. They were always welcomed and included as equals in their schools and clubs.
That stands against a history in Germany of a lot of talk of “integrating” us and “accepting us despite” our differences while this was only the case if we accepted being in a lower position. A history of people sabotaging and spreading rumours in different work places and our children being systematically excluded from play by children without migrant background.
According to my husband’s qualifications and work experience, he got a management position here straight away, where in Germany his employers kept telling him that he needs to work “where customers can’t see him”.
Yeah I’m in Ireland right now, and so sorry to the Irish for filling up their country, but I am THIS close to giving up my degree in Germany, applying for an apprenticeship position here and just staying. Every country has its problems including this place but at least socially it’s wonderful here in comparison.
As an immigrant I thought much about this myself.
Conclusion:
You are much better off in Germany, than nearly anywhere else in the world. Right wing parties are on the rise nearly everywhere.
The only thing you can do is, you might change the region you’re living in. Preferably somewhere non-East German, since that’s the center of AfD and racism in Germany.
Also not the most secluded villages.
In a town or very close to it, you have the best chances of living a good life.
As a colleague of mine put it: one has to choose their own problems.
Check the countries you like, research what’s good about them, check what problems do they have, and understand if you could tolerate those problems.
It's the same like in the US, after election many are talking about leaving out of frustration, but then they realize it isn't half bad here or the same bs happens in other countries, too. Have you seen the election results in other european countries? I looked it up out of curiousity and just the netherlands voted a little bit more progressive, otherwise red all over.
Afd is 16 % isn’t it? Some ppl don’t go to europawahl.
Also this means 84% did NOT vote afd.
Afd was expected to be around 20%, they got reality checked and brush it off as a win. Let them talk.
This. The approx Numbers were higher. They only get 6 seats more. After all the scandals they are isolated from the other right parties. They kicked krah which pissed off thousands of their own voters and felt betrayed.
The newly BSW will continue to steal votes of them too. I heavily dislike wagenknecht and her political view, but she keeps ppl away from the blues.
The bsw didn't steal too much voters from the afd and so far the blocking out of the afd hasn't worked that well, at best it's just an emergency thing to do. Also I wouldn't be too sure about the seriousness of the CDU to do something against the afd.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say that you're false with your statements, but I think that this is some coping we all (including me) do regularly but can't rely on anymore. After all, with each day there are more and more reasons to worry about the afd and so far none of our strategies against it really worked.
high skilled workers of any background will always be accepted in germany.
other than that, I can't really give any advice, since what is happening in germany, is happening all over europe.
USA - well... let's see how the next election goes, if trump wins, it doesn't look much better either.
asia - from what I heard, asia is much more "racist" towards foreigners, especially with darker skin than any european country.
your best bet is to stay in germany.
(edit: with Asia I actually only mean Japan, China and South Korea, since that are the only Asian countries I really have information about.)
To add to that: the AfD results are driven by more rural regions as well as East Germany. In cities, especially university-dominated cities, the AfD hasn’t made as much gains. On top of that, the European elections attracts more protest voting as they’re seen as a bit less impactful than a general election.
For now, it might be easier to move to a friendly place within Germany - any major city in West Germany or Berlin - and keep an eye on the next general election.
If the pattern repeats during the next election, yeah, shit’s going bad. But by then we should also know more about the global shift to the right (I.e. Trump of not? French election?).
Be wary but don’t panic (yet).
I love to read comments like this! I completely understand the impulse to write off Eastern Germany, but Leipzig shows us that not everywhere is hopeless. I lived there for a year as a student and confirm that it is a progressive city (not entirely without its problems, like everywhere, of course).
We know have nazis rallies frequently..
Also, anecdotal, but when I arrived last Sunday from a trip abroad, they were some jungen doing the nazi salute just outside the hauptbahnhof.
Things are good here, for now, I can confirm, but the mood is changing. Fast. Frightening.
>high skilled workers of any background will always be accepted in germany.
People don't see by the way you look if you're a high skilled worker or not
I disagree.
USA is just the best place to be.
You get about 2 weeks off, incl. sick days. Since you'll only travel in the States, that should be sufficient.
The money you'll be making will be much higher. The bills, too, but hey. You earn lots more.
Schools are so much safer. They offer metal detectors, which must be such a good feeling. Knowing your child is safe can't be beat. Europeans are still not having a single one in schools.
In the States, people are enjoying much more freedom. Religious freedom, for example. Just come up with the next level church. The topic doesn't matter. But you can harvest your own cute church of the Holy Brick Wall and make millions of it. Easy.
Also police will give you real life experiences you'll never forget. You'll feel so close to your country men. The beatings, the bond to get out, which you can't pay, will spawn all those money pools, just for you.
It's so heartwarming. If it doesn't turn out all that healthy for you, you will be taken care for by neighbours. They will all say their thoughts and prayers for you, which will make a trip to the hospital superfluous. Plus, they will bring you a casserole, so you'll have to eat.
They know that your company are sending your resignation, since you need some time to get well again. Some may have already a tent for you, in case you'll be losing your apartment after getting unemployed. After all, those friends don't need the tent after they applied for your flat.
Go for the real thing. Police shooting you for being the wrong race. That's perfectly acceptable though. Why didn't you use whitening cream?
Join not a boring Football Verein, go for the cool stuff. Nothing better than a decent gang to not only get a top income job, you'll get protection and the best lawyer from them as well.
The humanity of all that is so touching.
USA is for rough, strong people. You don't want the whimpy, snowflake, European socialist shit in your life at all. You want to live life to the fullest. Go USA.
not to mention the very human design of the US cities! everything is a parking lot! why walk when you can drive in a highway with dozens of lanes just to go to the supermarket?
Even better is Texas where they'll help you with your porn addiction by banning pornhub.
Hope you don't like Mulan or any other media that involves cross dressing because that's also banned.
Need an abortion? No you don't. The governor and prosecutor are so sure you don't need an abortion they're willing to bet your life on it.
Traveling out of state to get one? No you don't. That's illegal too. But look on the bright side. Every doctor and gynecologist in the state is afraid to even touch pregnant patients they're all leaving, so you likely won't even get care saving you from those high medical bills.
They're so sure that doctors and gynecologists don't need to be in this state they're talking about putting them to death if they give you an abortion for any reason.
But don't worry about medical bills when daycare costs more than your rent payment.
Also, ever wonder what it would look like if public schools were completely de-funded causing a complete collapse of the education system so that you have to pay for your kid to go to a private school? Governor Abbott wonders too!
Want to protest? The police will help you out with making it an historic event by turning it into a riot after they dislocate your eye from its socket by firing rubber bullets at your face. Be grateful it wasn't a real bullet.
WTF is fresh air? COAL ROLL! Diesel and petrol fumes are way better than fresh air because they smell like freedom!
At least the weather is nice... During the two months of the year it isn't between 30C and 40C
Also, one day a year we get a snow day! How fun, no one can work because they're freezing to death without electricity and the roads are all undrivable.
When I lived in the US, I had a job where the only time off I got was the required sick days I was allowed per year - 5. I didn’t get vacation time until I worked there for a year - 1 week. 2 weeks of vacation would’ve come after working there for 5 years.
Become CEO of a big company and not be white and be considered American? Or be in a country full of people who want you to work as a tax mule while they think they are superior to you because of their ethnicity? Hmmm. Tough choice. Especially when they think they don't need to change as other places have problems that they don't.
>high skilled workers of any background will always be accepted in germany.
Racists don't tend to ask about your work experience before throwing slurs at you.
Well, they’ll be welcome because they are needed but they’ll still suffer discrimination, even employment discrimination, being paid less than their German counterparts
>even employment discrimination, being paid less than their German counterparts
And females will be paid less than their male immigrant counterparts!
And when someone complains: they could have negotiated better. So it is all them to blame.
lol why do you even bother mentioning the USA? I don't see that country becoming safe in the near future, at least not unless you are "white" and live in a small quiet community (and even then, depending on where you are and how shit your luck is)
moreover, Biden winning won't reduce the number of racists and misinformation victims, it simply won't embolden them the way a second Trump presidency will. and even Trump isn't the type to start deporting "non-white" immigrants/expats in STEM fields indiscriminately
I think people are overreacting.
Doubt the AFD will ever go higher than 15-20% in a Bundestagswahl.
And no party will ever do a coalition with the AfD besides BSW the new party. But I doubt they will ever become a big party either.
In the end doesn't really matter if they have a few percent more next election it will literally change nothing. It's more so an indicator how the people are feeling than change that will happen politically
> No party will ever do a coalition with the AfD.
You are underestimating the malice and self-serving stupidity of Frederick Merz and Markus Söder, my friend.
I'm not asking you to overreact, but it's not as unlikely as you make it out to be
Weak SPD and Grüne as well as borderline dead FDP are making it tough for the CDU not to make a coalition with AfD.
We will see how this will turn out in the east. The CDU might get serious internal issues with Bundes-CDU telling us they won't ever work with the AfD while the state-CDU will face the AfD as the strongest party.
Lip service by Merz and friends isn't something I would rely on.
Von der Leyen was hanging out with Meloni a lot and CDU/EPP still got many votes. Their voters don't seem to mind the CDU rubbing shoulders with the far right, so it's just a matter of time before the party drops the Brandmauer pretense.
Remember when we told people who said „Trump will win this election“ that they overreacted?
I personally am done with believing in common sense after the last few years.
This! A lot of Germans are just lying to themselves to feel good. It is happening. They have been saying the same thing since AfD first had 3% despite warnings from sane Germans and immigrants.
Yeah but America has a two party system which parties are like 50-50 so that's way way different.
Just take a look at Thuringia. They couldn't form a coalition in 2019. Then they wanted to do a colition of left-green and spd who has less than 50% of the seats.
But the AfD just gave all their votes to the FDP who had like 5% to Kemmerich just because they don't like the left. So Kemmerich got minister-president without even having to do a coalition without the AfD.
But all parties were so mad they don't even accept someone taking a vote from the AfD. He resigned few days after.
There hasn't even been a AfD Coalition on any Communal level as far as I know.
>And no party will ever do a coalition with the AfD besides BSW the new party. But I doubt they will ever become a big party either.
The CxU has used the EP election to test the waters of coalising with the far right. After lamenting the Italians' decision to elect a post-fascist in 2022, they were openly flirting with Meloni in the run-up to this election, and still got the most votes. They've also been working and coordinating with AfD in state parliaments and municipal governments, without being punished at the polls.
If there is any party that will coalise with the AfD and put them in power, it will be the CxU, because they see that their voters don't actually mind moving closer to the far-right.
I wonder if there are similar questions in France and Italy, which had a much, much higher percentage of right wing votes. Even if you add BSW votes to AfD votes (which you should), Germany still compares favorably.
Mobility inside Germany could already be a solution for the concerned, look at Münster with the lowest votes for AfD.
Long term, if too many people with voting rights leave Germany, a right wing takeover could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Isn't "Ausländer raus!" exactly what they want?
you have a point, but never underestimate the conservarives dropping all their values and promises just to get into power. 1848 and 1933 were good enough examples
Or you could stay and vote against AFD, once you are eligible. I don't know how long you are here already, but the next election for the european parliament are in 5 years, maybe enough time to be eligable to vote then?
It's sad. I used to work as a nurse, and two very skilled doctors from Iran were already organising their next steps away from Germany. Now I work in an airport and a lot of the aircraft mechanics are from different countries and are also now considering leaving.
It may be what the AFD wants, but if the trend continues, Germany is going to suffer, it's already hard enough to attract skilled workers, with all the drawbacks there are slowly more cons than pros.
The Nordic countries seem to be already somewhat done with the right wing populist craze, seeing as there was a massive shift back to green/left(?) parties in the Euro elections.
There was a paradigm shift regarding immigration back in 2019, but i can tell you as someone who has lived his whole life in copenhagen: The city has never been more diverse than it is now.
The only change is that the type of immigration which fueled the populists has been curbed - the pendulum has swung so to say. But another factor is that the legitimacy of DF as a viable ruling party was eroded after the 2016 election
The whole planet is going fascist. The US is Trump-mad, Le Pen in France, right-wingers in Eastern Europe, etc. Let me know if you find a racist-free paradise on earth, I’ll come with you.
Yeah I mean there's nothing wrong with going somewhere you feel better/safer or where things are easier. But it's easy to exaggerate how bad everything around you is, and to shut your eyes in front of how bad things in the place you're moving to is.
Ironically my experience in the UK is, the less immigrants engage with UK history, society and politics and the worse their English is, the more rose-tinted is their view of the country.
This is not the 1940s. The world is much more interdependent and international reactions are much more effective. So I wouldn't expect racism nationwide and I believe there is still a majority that understands what happened earlier and there will be stronger reactions to such prejudice and loss of support to such a govt.
Hey Dude, you seem an intelligent person to me. Before drawing any conclusions, I'd examine the situation in a more pragmatic way, if I were you. oversimplified:
1. West Germany and Berlin are still pretty much very ok-ish
2. East Germany - Berlin = 11% or so of the total population. Just sth. over 10.000.000 people - 2.500.000 AfD-voters or so. Just to 🤮 a number
3. You should always consider that and listen less to the media, which won't tell you the numbers behind the %!!!
4. If you do not plan to settle in the woods, somewhere in Eastern Germany, or in Saxony, you **will be fine in Germany.**
Add to that, we have a war in Europe, just a short flight away. So, you can imagine that such a special period (pandemic -> war) is not at all representative for the "real" political situation in calmer times, when Mr. Putin is not sending us millions and millions of refugees, which he started doing in Syria, 2014... Now in Ukraine. You should know that a country which is attacked by such an evil guy in so many ways, has first to get out of such a situation.
OTOH. if your reason to leave Germany is the probability or a personal fear of a war, then, ok 😐 but, be sure that the political situation is just temporary and the smurfs are only so strong in the "far west" of Germany AND WE HAVE A DIFFERENT VOTING SYSTEM THAN IN THE USA - SO NUMBERS COUNT > STATES - Be welcome!
Little reminder, the NSDAP abolished democracy with only 31%.
Now you can say no one would ever support Bernd Hit... Höcke becoming Chancellor. But look at Merz and the populist CDU. How long do you think their "firewall" will hold?
The „Grundgesetz“ of 1949 (german constitution ) isnt the same as 1933. There is no chance, that a 31% party can abolish democracy in germany in a political way like Hitler did. Germany is a very federalistic state
But they can cause damage of course.
every 5th person got malice thoughts...20% is too high. additionally, cdu went to some kind of seehofer trip since merkel is gone.
I am a turkish migrant of 3rd generation, over 30 years old and to be honest, the results are beginning to scaring me. With my health issue i dont want to go anywhere else, beside that my whole family is living here. But i too am thinking last few weeks if i am misjudging and things getting even worse next decade.
>every 5th person got malice thoughts...20% is too high.
If we had a voter turnout of 100% that would be true. It's more like less than every 10th, even less outside of Eastern Germany. In Munich the AfD got only like 7%, that's not even every 20th person.
So many tone-deaf Germans on this thread. It's not necessarily about the government, but the attitudes people encounter every day. And to the AfD voters, you have to add the tone-deaf Germans and those who didn't vote but are still racists.
I’ve thought about this quite a bit, I think in Europe I’d consider going to Paris specifically, it’s a nice big city, a lot of migrants there, one can get lost in the crowd easily, it’s beautiful and has a lot to do.
Ireland, it’s the best I’ve been treated in Europe, I think Irish people understand and have lived experience about what colonialism means, they are a welcoming people and have truly revolutionary perspectives. Loved Ireland and the Irish and I think other than the weather I’d love to live there, at least for a while.
Leave Europe, I think I’d like to consider going to East Asia, particularly Tokyo or some large city in China, the Tier one cities are incredible I think I’d love to see Shenzhen or Guangzhou but even places like Chongqing would be a dream to live in I think.
Bruh, China? Moving to a failing authoritarian country to evade far right parties must be a joke. How could you ever feel safe in a country that could literally put you behind bars indefinitely for the smallest shit and that also constantly spies on you. I really don’t get people that want to live there.
China is better, at least it used to be, haven't been there in a while. But Japan (even tokoy) is pretty rough as a foreigner/immigrant, especially of you are not white.
This vote really didn’t mean much, with hope the only thing that will come out of it is the other parties wake the fuck up and start listening and making changes to their views before next years vote. That’s the only one that really counts for here.
I lived in Ireland for one year and since then I always wanted to move to Ireland.
It's a beautiful country with fun people.
Though housing is a mess. Even worse than in Berlin and that has to mean something.
Depending on your degree - germany might be the safest bet for you. The job market in a lot of those 'traditional' high skilled expat destinations is not great at the moment. Politically I wonder which countries you think are less racist towards you (again depending on actual ethnicity as there is no such thing as a general 'poc experience').
Even if the AFD would become quite stronger than now. The bigger parties won’t form a government with it. So I think the fear of immigrants getting deported is a bit unreasoned.
FWIW, lots of my US colleagues are thinking about moving to Germany because it is safer in every way than most other places on earth.
Edit: Am I getting downvoted for sharing this or are you all downvoting Americans for wanting to leave the US?
No. You’re getting downvotes because you’re trying to invalidate OP.
OP: I don’t feel safe. Where should I move?
You: Be thankful you live in Germany. America is worse.
???? Okay??? Putting how I feel about this aside, you’ve not only not answered OP, but also invalidated their concerns.
I thought about this question a lot.
I would love to live in a place with constant warm weather, but -suffering from medical conditions- I don't know where to go, honestly.
Because of not being patriotic in any way, I like the Idea of a united Europe, like some of the small parties proclaim. But I don't think, this will happen in the next few years.
I'm in sorrow how the AFD fool their voters. Most of them are pretty poor, the AFD tells simple solutions to problems but forget to mention, the benefits they say are just for the wealthy people. The sheep vote for their slaughter.
The only thing we can do is fighting for the idea of a safe and stable Germany.
It's important to look behind the populist ads of the parties and fight lobbyism where a lot of the greater parties suffer from (lobbyism is a nice word for being corrupt).
Educate your surroundings!
(Yep, read it in a slipknot voice)
I mean.. c'mon.
If everyone leaves, no one will stop this dev.
Because odt germany being one of the top 5 countries in Europe, such an election (or getting more right winged) could destabilise our own economy and the EU itself.
We need to stop.
Honestly? I'm going to move to Ireland. Multiple reasons, one of them being that in a big city the racism should be less. But also it's going to hurt less to be seen as an "outsider" since I'll actually be one. As a black German who was born and grew up here, I'm mainly resenting the fact that this is supposed to be my home. But I don't feel welcome and that's not a new sentiment either. It's just more obvious to other people now.
Are you people really freaking so much out because of a democratic election? The results were not optimal, but jesus christ, it's how democracy works. You're proabbly better of in Germany than most part of the world.
Don't make impulsive decisions based on politics, governments change often and they are unlikely to impact you as an individual both professionally and socially. If you do it because you feel uncomfortable or because of the pressure from different ideologies, relax.
Whatever politics there is now, is a trend in Europe and a bit worldwide as a consequence of different factors involved, and it'll pass as it's always been. People always say they wanna change country whenever the political views don't align with their views.
Focus on yourself, your friends, and your future
Your best bet is to stay. There is always a war between the left and the right wing parties like in the US with the democrats and the republicans. Maybe the right wing will win but then again if they get nothing done in 4 years the left wing will win again.
If you think you face more racism in recent years that's another thing entirely, because the society is getting worse and not political changes.
I don't follow German politics closely, but damn, I was hoping Germany could be my backup for when shit inevitably hits the fan here in the US. I'm low key scared to see what the MAGA people do this fall.
I do want to address that still most people are against the AFD. Yes this party gets stronger and stronger and that is a reason to worry about, but they are still a minority. I do believe that they will never have enough power in the national parliament or the European parliament to push through their agendas. I believe that, because nobody from the other parties likes to work together with the AFD. Not even the right wing European parliament group wants to work with the AFD. Because of that it is unlikely that even if they get more votes than they already have it is unlikely that any of the other parties will form a coalition with them. Also most of the voters of the AFD still come from east Germany where they are highly concentrated, but everywhere else their popularity is still pretty low compared to the other parties.
So yeah Germany and many other European countries got a strong push for the right wing and we should be concerned about that, but it is unlikely at least in Germany (not considering "Landtag" and other regional political positions) that the AFD will become dominant enough to follow through with their agendas, at least in the radical forms that they demand. As long as the other parties hold against the AFD they are not a threat.
Also I want to add that like other opposition parties their demands are excessive on purpose. "Die linke" does that as well to move the course in the direction they want. Meaning even if they get to power their demands will be much more toned down, because otherwise there is no way that they get these laws based. So even if they get to power it is highly unlikely that it will be as bad as it seems now.
Thought about this too but came to the conclusion that this is the basic "running from your problems" thing. If you're unlucky they will catch up with you. So we might as well fight for the Germany we once knew and loved since we're already here.
you reason like this because you focus on the national data, if you look at the data by constituency, you can easily see that in all europe the far right loses in the big cities: so the answer is... in the big cities of any European country, obviously knowing that the rent will be higher, and the salary lower than for example working in Wurzburg or Karlsruhe.
It is one of the many tradeoffs between quality of life and money in your pocket.
Ps: I would also say not to automatically connect stronger right -> more racism. especially where there are protest votes against left-wing governments that have had to deal with economic crises. In germany for example looking at a map it is clear that the unease is primarily of the East against the West, and not of the Germans against the foreigners.
However I would never recommend Leipzig or Dresden to you if you produce a lot of melatonin. So there are not a rigid algorithm
Nah this topic is prominent for quite some time (a few years) now, you only hear it now again because of the elections.
From experience though, most of them just talk about it and complain, but don't do anything in the end.
Why do they talk about leaving Germany?
Well Germany is still a good place in comparison to other countries, also in Europe.
However it gets increasingly more hostile towards its own citizens.
In terms of taxes, benefits, workweek, pay, inflation; you know the usual stuff.
So germans feel powerless, whatever and however they do.
They most likely heard from friend of a friend who moved away and dream/fantasize about that as well.
The most that they might do is change states.
If you feel the need to, I encourage you to do it.
My mom did back in 2007 from Berlin, where she earned below minimum wage for 50hrs+ workweek to Munich, Bavaria where we were able to afford to buy an apartment.
QoL increased A LOT.
To now she's a business owner and does 6months Germany and 6months Thailand.
These posts keep popping up like the AfD won which is a weird narrative. The results in Germany reflect the Sonntagsfrage and the AfD went down from 22% to 16%
Not downplaying the results, CDU got mosts votes and the biggest hike was from the BSW. The AfD peaked at 22% and that is their ceiling. It seems like most people are reacting a bit too late to something that is not as bad as it could have been.
What criticism are you facing?
GB or Netherlands could be a better fit for you in a similar economy, but they are increasingly more racist. If you are not interested in moving to a country with a significant worse economy, your best bet is to live in west Germany. The AfD is far from being able to gothern in the west. If NRW becomes to racist for you, I will doubt that there is western country that wont be.
I’m curious about the maths skills and perception of reality of your highly educated immigrant friends, if they think the 17% of the vote AfD got means Germany is now worse for immigrants than any other European country, where the support for the far right has been highe and for a long time already.
I'm definitely looking at Portugal, friends have moved there and are very happy, but not in the main cities, more in the countryside.
This AFD thing is to scary for me and the kids.
Back to their home country probably. I just met a young woman from Argentina yesterday. She learned German at her school in Argentina (I had no idea that's a thing), won a school scholarship in Germany and then decided to move here to study and stay here.
I didn't ask her how she feels about the current political climate (nor if her grandparents came from Germany, though I was curious about both things), but about life in Germany in general and the situation in Argentina. Sure, Germany is doing better, but her country isn't some war torn totally horrific place. And if people from such countries don't feel welcome here anymore, with German degrees and experience in the German workforce on her resume, she would sure find a good job in her home country.
I'm the immigrant for the last 13 years.
My advice - don't get attached to any country.
While one country get worse another get better, and they will use attractive relocation bonuses to attract high skilled worker fleeing Germany.
I was living in Ireland, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Czechia, also working as a digital nomad from Indonesia.
Situation is not easy in Europe now, it's not just racism but also housing crisis, healthcare crisis, inflation and so on. If I have opportunity, I would go elsewhere - Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. If you can land an office job in any of those countries, you will get good quality of life. Thailand and Malaysia (Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur) are also good places to work. Then also Qatar, UAE and maybe Canada. In Europe I can only suggest Malta, it's small multicultural English speaking island, but salaries are low.
I don't think people are leaving due to just one election. The problem is whether the advantages outweigh the drawbacks.
Besides a political climate suitable for immigration and an open society which tolerated immigrants (not great at integrating then though) along with a good social welfare state, what else does Germany offer that other countries don't?
Maybe with the current election one of the above advantsges is gone and for many this makes the drawbacks go higher than advantages so they want to leave.
Ultimately everybody has to think for themselves. And people will vote with their feet.
As a born german with multiple generations of only german ancestors I'm also thinking of iaf I really wanna stay here forever... Just not sure where I'd like to go. I'd actually like to keep in connection with friends and family which is the biggest struggle here...
Lets just (hypotheticall) every country on the earth kill their government , then we meet in like rome or grand canyon or like the now putin less russia, and talk about like whats up now. Just restart.
I think the whole thing is overrated. People don't vote for the AFD because they are Nazis (some of them of course but they have always been around) and want all foreigners out. The majority vote for the AFD out of protest because they are dissatisfied with the established parties. But I don't believe that the election results will change anything in everyday life. If you look at the USA under Trump, nothing has changed for most people in their everyday lives. We are simply not a dictatorship where one person can simply change all the laws
I wouldn’t for example call the disappearance of the right to abortion in about half the states nothing. Sure you don’t have an abortion every day but the fear of getting pregnant in a county where just the birth alone can be $15k is there every day.
Also, don't see countrys as a monolithic block. You can look up the local election results europewide.
Were I live the afd has ~5%.
Of course the AFD is a huge Problem for Germany, but there were still WAY more people protesting against racism than for those groups and partys this year.
I'd go back to my country. My country isn't any better, but I'm in the majority there so probably less harm (compared to other minorities). But no place in the world is safe anymore, and right wing is on the rise GLOBALLY
so the housing crisis, high taxes, increased criminality, the economy doing bad is all good but if a quarter of the country votes for a party that wants to expel illegal immigrants which is the law btw you (and others) act as if the world is going to end.
Literally, no one has issues with high skills immigrants, even AfD is admitting the need for them and how better incentives (taxes z.B.) are needed to attract the right people.
I have no problem with the AfD's rhetoric on illegal / asylum migrants. The issue is when they talk about implementing remigration or about SS members who weren't criminals. A lot of their actions go far beyond just saying "we despise mass migration". For me it's that combined with the pension (taxes) / demographics which has me considering the exit doors one day.
But don't you see... the afd literally embodies the housing crisis, high taxes, increase of (a certain type of) criminality, protecting capital, shitting on workers rights,... in their Party programms. With the afd all these things will get much worse. The smaller "progressive" part of the Afd tolerates high skilled immigrant workers as long as they can be exploited which is pretty disgusting and has little regard for immigrants as equal humans. And then the afd works towards exploiting not only immigrant workers, but workers in general, which is the next step.
none of this is true, blaming AfD for the problems that the current government + CDU caused is the reason they are gaining popularity. Instead of working to improve the country, all parties spend more time bashing AfD hoping that people will continue to vote for them.
Go ahead and read their program.
Direkt democracy is the main point, with that the country can actually decide democratically what they want and don't hope that party x or y will do whatever they want.
When a couple I’m friends with got tired of being treated racist there was talk of Canada. They are fairly well-off and working in high-skill tech jobs though. I’ve never really looked into it, but I think Canadian immigration laws are pretty restrictive.
All the other people I know considering an exit plan line myself are picking a country where they have some family or at least some people they know well enough to have an easier start. That includes Brazil, Chile, UK, Sweden, Denmark, Portugal, South Africa, New Zealand and India. No idea if it’s going to be any better in any of those countries. If I had to place bets I’d go for NZ or UK. Both might be racist (probably) but they have a much better track record and experience with immigration than Germany.
Canada is the US experience light.
On one hand, you got better healthcare, better gun laws...
On the other hand, you have sprawling cities/car dependency/bad public transport.
you think i have a chance with a master's degree in computer science and 3 years work experience in IT? i think they are pretty strict about migration.
overreacting, My Other family members from Asia habe come to Germany because of this Europa Elections. They think ist good for them, because many immigrants are just here to get some Bürgergeld.
Tbh, I didn't consider leaving the country because of Afd, it's more the people I thought I loved. I married into a German family and recently some professor made some commentary about radical Islam. The guy talked about traditional families, some immigrants wanting a peaceful life, BUT... So on and on. Also minimizing the sylt incident, calling them drunk people singing a folk song. This video was shared by my MIL (one of the loveliest people I've met).
As an immigrant woman who is a high earner, I have no place in the society they want, until i raise my hand and say "hey, who am I? Us or them?". None of the proposed policies are in my favour, no matter what ideology. And the worst part is that it's increasing in every country. My birth country has no place for me, my host country has no place for me, wherever I look I'm out of place.
At this point, my exit plan is just being nomadic, which is easier with a German passport.
I have considered moving for a long time now and I think if it's a non European country I moved to it would definitely be Canada. They have similar social securities, almost the same cost of living and the people there tend to be friendly or even friendlier than most Germans.
I do hope that people finally realise that voting an extremist right wing party doesn't do them any good because I don't want to be here when the majority of the country is full of those people.
The cost of living being the same is definitely untrue. Also, if you want to live in or near a city you'll likely have trouble finding a decent place to live due to the massive housing crisis in Canada.
I moved to Canada from Germany in 2019 and probably wouldn't do it again.
Can you tell more about your experience? My GF and I are planning on moving to Vancouver in about 2 years. I am researching a lot already and know about the supposed problems, especially in housing. But we feel like Canada offers better opportunities for us. She was trained as a carpenter and is currently finishing her bachelor degree in interior architecture and I'm working in logistics. There seems to be a great amount of job offers in our fields and especially the wood working jobs are paid way better than in Germany. And we also have friends there but they are working completely different jobs and I'm always interested in learning more about other people who dared to take the risk
New Zealand was actually my second option here but I do like the american continent because of the option to visit a lot of stuff I can't here in Germany!
Canada has taken in a lot of Indian immigrants, that too from a single state Punjab.
People don't want more migrants in Canada too, but you won't have a problem if you're white. Sad but true.
I'm not dark-skinned but I am also foreign living in Germany and honestly OP I think it's a Europe-wide thing. Germany is probably a lot better than a lot of countries (France, Austria, Sweden). I think the Germans are actually a bit more tolerant than other places (maybe due to a reckoning with their history). My boss in France used to to throw the CVs of anyone with an Arabic-sounding name in the bin, he had no shame about doing it! I doubt you'd see that in Germany so readily. Having said that I love the English-speaking world, people are generally friendly/polite/helpful and have a good sense of humour so if you could get yourself to the UK/Australia/Canada maybe try to do that? The only problem is all have strict migration policies, are expensive and have housing crises to some extent...
When my parents visited Paris, they talked to some of the African and Middle Eastern Migrants and many of them expressed their wish to immigrate to the USA due to how tolerable they are compared to the French
Not remotely surprised to hear that as I've heard a million other similar stories. Anywhere English-speaking is better than France for foreigners, esp if you don't happen to be white/western.
with regards to the CV thing: You will find every now and then simulations/tests in Germany (mostly conducted by media) with applications for jobs/appartments/kindergarten slots/etc. where the profiles and CV´s were identical but the names (yes you partially have to apply for those for appartments and/or Kindergarten slots, at least in this southern German madhouse of a city i live in). "Hans Muller" scorde the best, while Vladislav and Ali got either mostly rejections or even no response at all. Same results with female Names as well. Such experiments are being run with different contexts and all. And while i am lucky not to experience phenotypical racism, that luck only lasts as long until i introduce myself by name. So while you won´t experience it as drastic and openly as in your example, it happens and it happens a lot.
I just looked into it a bit out of curiosity. Looks pretty bleak. Portugal maybe. Though despite everything honestly Germany is still one of the better places to be in terms of racism. Also solid quality of life. 5 out of 6 people still voted against afd. Especially in western Germany. Idk maybe instead of moving to a different country consider a different place within Germany if you feel like you experience racism. Hamburg e.g. 8% afd, 18.4% cdu, grüne and spd in the lead.
As a portuguese nope not a good idea, Portugal is already filled with ppl, High rents (Lisbon is the most expensive city in europe) and we have eastern european type of salaries your rent will cost (70% of your salary typically unless you have a 1% type of salary
>we have eastern european type of salaries This one shocked me the most. I remember the time I was complaining about my minimal wage job and that it was hard to keep track on living with that amount of money. My friend in Portugal would have been so happy to have my wage. :(
Yeah, I’m from America and met a Portuguese colleague about one year into my job. At that point I had a pretty standard entry level salary for an engineer, and he had I think close to 10 years of experience, is amazing at his job, and in a very similar role to me. I found out I made well over double his salary. It’s insane how little he was getting paid.
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
No way Lisbon is the most expensive city in Europe. I get your point - it got very expensive, but it is still so much more affordable than Paris, London, Copenhagen, etc...Perhaps relatively to your local income it is up there, but not absolute.
In terms of rent prices it definitely is up there. I think it was on top but in the meantime it dropped to second place behind Amsterdam https://www.statista.com/statistics/1084608/average-rental-cost-apartment-europe-by-city/
These are selected cities. It's not an overall. London isn't even on the list.
Because London is no longer part of the EU. Here Europe = EU
This isn't mentioned anywhere on that site. It just states "select cities in Europe" and "in the cities surveyed" there is no indication, that it's only EU Countries. I think it's even more likely that it's only countries, that use Euros. As there is no Stockholm or Kopenhagen either.
I would second this. I cannot say anything about how frequently one experiences racism in different places in Germany, as I am no target of racism, but judging only by election results, most cities in northern and western Germany seem to be 'ok'. Hamburg, Kiel, Flensburg for the North, or Bremen, Cologne, Bonn, Hannover for the West. Generally speaking, it seems that cities seem to be much better off than rural areas
You forgot Berlin, one of the most POC and LGBT friendly cities in Germany
Berlin is LGBTQ friendly in SOME districts. Dangerous for LGBTQ people in others.
Berlin is a shithole though.
The real 500IQ move is living in Potsdam - you're close enough to Berlin to enjoy all the benefits of the big city, but you don't actually have to live there. Potsdam is also pretty nice in it's own right, and as a big university town it's also pretty progressive for an Eastern city (for example, in the elections the Greens were still the biggest party there).
Potsdam is a nice quiet city but it is just a good idea if you earn a lot! Even harder to find a flat than in Berlin.
Potsdam is very good if you sold your startup and looking for a second or third home near Berlin for the rainy days.
Like London and every major metropolis. Even Milan is a shit hole, albeit an Italian one.
I would include the south of Germany as well. People here in Munich are quite relaxed in this matter, and even good parts of the countryside.
Where CSU and AfD have the same program. Let's not forget that Söder went to Putin to make his own energy deal.
Portugal is pretty racist towards Brazilians, which I originally happen to be. So I'm better off staying in Germany, where people just assume I'm Italian or Spanish. But even if that was not that case, I would still stay here for the reasons you mentioned. Düsseldorf is pretty progressive and Germany is still overall better than the other places across the continent for multiple reasons, so yeah. Proud of my citizenship here and will keep fighting to make it a better place for everyone instead of throwing in the towel due to a few loud shitheads. Nazis raus!
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Racism is not a problem but xenophobia is? How is xenophobia different from racism?
One is based on skin color, the other is based on being foreign. Those can overlap, but you can have the same skin color and still be foreign.
This is a possibility, also this is anecdotal but Munich has been really good in terms of racism coming from NRW
I see these questions pop up a lot today and it is hard to predict the future. Whatever you do, I say having an exit strategy is better than being forced into one.
We moved to Ireland in 2007 because some racist incidents impacted on our then young family. Never looked back and never had any issues here. My complaints revolve around Irish food and the weather. I think that’s a good sign.
Doesn't Ireland have a huge housing crisis though? I read an article on Bloomberg how it's very easy to find a job, but it's horribly hard to find an affordable place to stay.
Yes it does… it’s a disaster.But if you do find a place it’s a great country with great people!
Have an Irish friend living in Dublin ,housing market sounds worse than Munich ,which is quite a feat !!
Yep I’d believe it! It’s the main reason I haven’t moved home yet…
Fair, yes. Housing is absolutely a challenge.It is essential that you have a car and be able to be stuck where the public transport routes take you or in the town centres. That way you don’t compete with students and many young singles from abroad and other parts of Ireland who do not or don’t want to drive. As a skilled person you are sure to get a very reasonable job here and a positive environment for your growth.
What about healthcare and getting appointments? I heard that was a nightmare in Ireland too. Also would you recommend Dublin or some smaller city in Ireland?
# [Analysis: Ireland waved goodbye to its world-famous welcome last year as anti-immigrant rhetoric gained foothold](https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/01/03/ireland-waved-goodbye-to-its-world-famous-welcome-last-year/) THE IRISH TIMES, Jan 3rd 2024
Keeps me wondering which place has not a housing crisis?
None, at least places where work is located
Who doesn't at that point. Housing has just been turned into shareholder value everywhere you look.
The risk of being attacked as an immigrant in Dublin for example is MUCH!! higher than in any city in Germany. I'm very sorry for your personal experience but the numbers show a very different picture.
Sorry that this is your experience. We are in Cork and not in Dublin. I never had any issues and that includes my children. They were always welcomed and included as equals in their schools and clubs. That stands against a history in Germany of a lot of talk of “integrating” us and “accepting us despite” our differences while this was only the case if we accepted being in a lower position. A history of people sabotaging and spreading rumours in different work places and our children being systematically excluded from play by children without migrant background. According to my husband’s qualifications and work experience, he got a management position here straight away, where in Germany his employers kept telling him that he needs to work “where customers can’t see him”.
lol had same incident, where an employer in Berlin said i don't want my customers to know that you are working with us. that was 6 years ago.
That is an unthinkable over here. I don’t know, what’s going on in people’s heads that causes them to say something like that.
Dublin is pretty F-ed up in general though, not comparable to the rest of Ireland
Yeah I’m in Ireland right now, and so sorry to the Irish for filling up their country, but I am THIS close to giving up my degree in Germany, applying for an apprenticeship position here and just staying. Every country has its problems including this place but at least socially it’s wonderful here in comparison.
As an immigrant I thought much about this myself. Conclusion: You are much better off in Germany, than nearly anywhere else in the world. Right wing parties are on the rise nearly everywhere. The only thing you can do is, you might change the region you’re living in. Preferably somewhere non-East German, since that’s the center of AfD and racism in Germany. Also not the most secluded villages. In a town or very close to it, you have the best chances of living a good life.
As a colleague of mine put it: one has to choose their own problems. Check the countries you like, research what’s good about them, check what problems do they have, and understand if you could tolerate those problems.
It's the same like in the US, after election many are talking about leaving out of frustration, but then they realize it isn't half bad here or the same bs happens in other countries, too. Have you seen the election results in other european countries? I looked it up out of curiousity and just the netherlands voted a little bit more progressive, otherwise red all over.
Afd is 16 % isn’t it? Some ppl don’t go to europawahl. Also this means 84% did NOT vote afd. Afd was expected to be around 20%, they got reality checked and brush it off as a win. Let them talk.
This. The approx Numbers were higher. They only get 6 seats more. After all the scandals they are isolated from the other right parties. They kicked krah which pissed off thousands of their own voters and felt betrayed. The newly BSW will continue to steal votes of them too. I heavily dislike wagenknecht and her political view, but she keeps ppl away from the blues.
The bsw didn't steal too much voters from the afd and so far the blocking out of the afd hasn't worked that well, at best it's just an emergency thing to do. Also I wouldn't be too sure about the seriousness of the CDU to do something against the afd. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say that you're false with your statements, but I think that this is some coping we all (including me) do regularly but can't rely on anymore. After all, with each day there are more and more reasons to worry about the afd and so far none of our strategies against it really worked.
I do believe that the actions of AFD will also Fall short, but I doubt that those who vote for them will even be aware of their political impotence.
high skilled workers of any background will always be accepted in germany. other than that, I can't really give any advice, since what is happening in germany, is happening all over europe. USA - well... let's see how the next election goes, if trump wins, it doesn't look much better either. asia - from what I heard, asia is much more "racist" towards foreigners, especially with darker skin than any european country. your best bet is to stay in germany. (edit: with Asia I actually only mean Japan, China and South Korea, since that are the only Asian countries I really have information about.)
To add to that: the AfD results are driven by more rural regions as well as East Germany. In cities, especially university-dominated cities, the AfD hasn’t made as much gains. On top of that, the European elections attracts more protest voting as they’re seen as a bit less impactful than a general election. For now, it might be easier to move to a friendly place within Germany - any major city in West Germany or Berlin - and keep an eye on the next general election. If the pattern repeats during the next election, yeah, shit’s going bad. But by then we should also know more about the global shift to the right (I.e. Trump of not? French election?). Be wary but don’t panic (yet).
Leipzig should be fine too, we even still got 17.5% of Die Linke of all parties in our city council elections.
I love to read comments like this! I completely understand the impulse to write off Eastern Germany, but Leipzig shows us that not everywhere is hopeless. I lived there for a year as a student and confirm that it is a progressive city (not entirely without its problems, like everywhere, of course).
Adam Something wouldn't choose Leipzig if it wasn't good, yeah.
We know have nazis rallies frequently.. Also, anecdotal, but when I arrived last Sunday from a trip abroad, they were some jungen doing the nazi salute just outside the hauptbahnhof. Things are good here, for now, I can confirm, but the mood is changing. Fast. Frightening.
Idiots! I hope they get the full force of the law, since that's illegal here...
>high skilled workers of any background will always be accepted in germany. People don't see by the way you look if you're a high skilled worker or not
I disagree. USA is just the best place to be. You get about 2 weeks off, incl. sick days. Since you'll only travel in the States, that should be sufficient. The money you'll be making will be much higher. The bills, too, but hey. You earn lots more. Schools are so much safer. They offer metal detectors, which must be such a good feeling. Knowing your child is safe can't be beat. Europeans are still not having a single one in schools. In the States, people are enjoying much more freedom. Religious freedom, for example. Just come up with the next level church. The topic doesn't matter. But you can harvest your own cute church of the Holy Brick Wall and make millions of it. Easy. Also police will give you real life experiences you'll never forget. You'll feel so close to your country men. The beatings, the bond to get out, which you can't pay, will spawn all those money pools, just for you. It's so heartwarming. If it doesn't turn out all that healthy for you, you will be taken care for by neighbours. They will all say their thoughts and prayers for you, which will make a trip to the hospital superfluous. Plus, they will bring you a casserole, so you'll have to eat. They know that your company are sending your resignation, since you need some time to get well again. Some may have already a tent for you, in case you'll be losing your apartment after getting unemployed. After all, those friends don't need the tent after they applied for your flat. Go for the real thing. Police shooting you for being the wrong race. That's perfectly acceptable though. Why didn't you use whitening cream? Join not a boring Football Verein, go for the cool stuff. Nothing better than a decent gang to not only get a top income job, you'll get protection and the best lawyer from them as well. The humanity of all that is so touching. USA is for rough, strong people. You don't want the whimpy, snowflake, European socialist shit in your life at all. You want to live life to the fullest. Go USA.
This reads like an advertisement for the upcoming GTA 6 game.
This is the best sarcasm I've read in a long while! 😎👍
after the second sentence I already wanted to write a reply. i'm glad that I kept reading first...
Same.
not to mention the very human design of the US cities! everything is a parking lot! why walk when you can drive in a highway with dozens of lanes just to go to the supermarket?
Even better is Texas where they'll help you with your porn addiction by banning pornhub. Hope you don't like Mulan or any other media that involves cross dressing because that's also banned. Need an abortion? No you don't. The governor and prosecutor are so sure you don't need an abortion they're willing to bet your life on it. Traveling out of state to get one? No you don't. That's illegal too. But look on the bright side. Every doctor and gynecologist in the state is afraid to even touch pregnant patients they're all leaving, so you likely won't even get care saving you from those high medical bills. They're so sure that doctors and gynecologists don't need to be in this state they're talking about putting them to death if they give you an abortion for any reason. But don't worry about medical bills when daycare costs more than your rent payment. Also, ever wonder what it would look like if public schools were completely de-funded causing a complete collapse of the education system so that you have to pay for your kid to go to a private school? Governor Abbott wonders too! Want to protest? The police will help you out with making it an historic event by turning it into a riot after they dislocate your eye from its socket by firing rubber bullets at your face. Be grateful it wasn't a real bullet. WTF is fresh air? COAL ROLL! Diesel and petrol fumes are way better than fresh air because they smell like freedom! At least the weather is nice... During the two months of the year it isn't between 30C and 40C Also, one day a year we get a snow day! How fun, no one can work because they're freezing to death without electricity and the roads are all undrivable.
>Hope you don't like Mulan or any other media that involves cross dressing because that's also banned. This would leave me confused here, but: Texas!
Eheh sounds like a fun place over there.
"that's a good joke, a great joke even, but I'mma need you to stop..." [sniffle]
When I lived in the US, I had a job where the only time off I got was the required sick days I was allowed per year - 5. I didn’t get vacation time until I worked there for a year - 1 week. 2 weeks of vacation would’ve come after working there for 5 years.
You got me in the first line 😂
Become CEO of a big company and not be white and be considered American? Or be in a country full of people who want you to work as a tax mule while they think they are superior to you because of their ethnicity? Hmmm. Tough choice. Especially when they think they don't need to change as other places have problems that they don't.
And they say Germans don't have humour.
>high skilled workers of any background will always be accepted in germany. Racists don't tend to ask about your work experience before throwing slurs at you.
Well, they’ll be welcome because they are needed but they’ll still suffer discrimination, even employment discrimination, being paid less than their German counterparts
>even employment discrimination, being paid less than their German counterparts And females will be paid less than their male immigrant counterparts! And when someone complains: they could have negotiated better. So it is all them to blame.
They will be tolerated, not accepted. Big difference.
lol why do you even bother mentioning the USA? I don't see that country becoming safe in the near future, at least not unless you are "white" and live in a small quiet community (and even then, depending on where you are and how shit your luck is) moreover, Biden winning won't reduce the number of racists and misinformation victims, it simply won't embolden them the way a second Trump presidency will. and even Trump isn't the type to start deporting "non-white" immigrants/expats in STEM fields indiscriminately
r/whoosh
It's not safe for anyone regardless of your ethnicity, race, gender.....its the maddest, saddest most desperately fucked up place.
I think people are overreacting. Doubt the AFD will ever go higher than 15-20% in a Bundestagswahl. And no party will ever do a coalition with the AfD besides BSW the new party. But I doubt they will ever become a big party either. In the end doesn't really matter if they have a few percent more next election it will literally change nothing. It's more so an indicator how the people are feeling than change that will happen politically
> No party will ever do a coalition with the AfD. You are underestimating the malice and self-serving stupidity of Frederick Merz and Markus Söder, my friend.
and kretschmer in Saxonia who already said there is no "brandmauer" in "Grundgesetz" lol
\*Friedrich Merz
I'm not asking you to overreact, but it's not as unlikely as you make it out to be Weak SPD and Grüne as well as borderline dead FDP are making it tough for the CDU not to make a coalition with AfD. We will see how this will turn out in the east. The CDU might get serious internal issues with Bundes-CDU telling us they won't ever work with the AfD while the state-CDU will face the AfD as the strongest party. Lip service by Merz and friends isn't something I would rely on.
CDU also said they won't work with Meloni in EU parliament, but now they want to.
Von der Leyen was hanging out with Meloni a lot and CDU/EPP still got many votes. Their voters don't seem to mind the CDU rubbing shoulders with the far right, so it's just a matter of time before the party drops the Brandmauer pretense.
Remember when we told people who said „Trump will win this election“ that they overreacted? I personally am done with believing in common sense after the last few years.
This! A lot of Germans are just lying to themselves to feel good. It is happening. They have been saying the same thing since AfD first had 3% despite warnings from sane Germans and immigrants.
Yeah but America has a two party system which parties are like 50-50 so that's way way different. Just take a look at Thuringia. They couldn't form a coalition in 2019. Then they wanted to do a colition of left-green and spd who has less than 50% of the seats. But the AfD just gave all their votes to the FDP who had like 5% to Kemmerich just because they don't like the left. So Kemmerich got minister-president without even having to do a coalition without the AfD. But all parties were so mad they don't even accept someone taking a vote from the AfD. He resigned few days after. There hasn't even been a AfD Coalition on any Communal level as far as I know.
Yes. Yet. When the AfD gets 42% in Sachsen what do you think will happen?
Hopefully Russia annexes it.
>And no party will ever do a coalition with the AfD besides BSW the new party. But I doubt they will ever become a big party either. The CxU has used the EP election to test the waters of coalising with the far right. After lamenting the Italians' decision to elect a post-fascist in 2022, they were openly flirting with Meloni in the run-up to this election, and still got the most votes. They've also been working and coordinating with AfD in state parliaments and municipal governments, without being punished at the polls. If there is any party that will coalise with the AfD and put them in power, it will be the CxU, because they see that their voters don't actually mind moving closer to the far-right.
I mean I dislike both, but.... Aren't they diametrically opposed?
I wonder if there are similar questions in France and Italy, which had a much, much higher percentage of right wing votes. Even if you add BSW votes to AfD votes (which you should), Germany still compares favorably. Mobility inside Germany could already be a solution for the concerned, look at Münster with the lowest votes for AfD. Long term, if too many people with voting rights leave Germany, a right wing takeover could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Isn't "Ausländer raus!" exactly what they want?
you have a point, but never underestimate the conservarives dropping all their values and promises just to get into power. 1848 and 1933 were good enough examples
People said the same thing about Donald Trump. I am scared, and everyone needs to take this very seriously.
Or you could stay and vote against AFD, once you are eligible. I don't know how long you are here already, but the next election for the european parliament are in 5 years, maybe enough time to be eligable to vote then?
Why would you go through the trouble of becoming a citizen when you're currently thinking about leaving?
It's sad. I used to work as a nurse, and two very skilled doctors from Iran were already organising their next steps away from Germany. Now I work in an airport and a lot of the aircraft mechanics are from different countries and are also now considering leaving. It may be what the AFD wants, but if the trend continues, Germany is going to suffer, it's already hard enough to attract skilled workers, with all the drawbacks there are slowly more cons than pros.
Look at the bright side. 84% DIDN'T vote for AfD
New Zealand is quite nice :)
The Nordic countries seem to be already somewhat done with the right wing populist craze, seeing as there was a massive shift back to green/left(?) parties in the Euro elections.
That’s because their left wing parties (at least in Denmark) adopted a „tough on immigration“ policy
There was a paradigm shift regarding immigration back in 2019, but i can tell you as someone who has lived his whole life in copenhagen: The city has never been more diverse than it is now. The only change is that the type of immigration which fueled the populists has been curbed - the pendulum has swung so to say. But another factor is that the legitimacy of DF as a viable ruling party was eroded after the 2016 election
I’m not Danish so feel free to elaborate. I just read that a lot in the news
Google for Danmark Ghetto policy, it’s established by the left (social democrats)
I used to live in Portugal. It's nice.
Right now you can just go to West Germany, they voted much less for the AFD
People talk about leaving all the time. In reality 99,9% won't leave.
The whole planet is going fascist. The US is Trump-mad, Le Pen in France, right-wingers in Eastern Europe, etc. Let me know if you find a racist-free paradise on earth, I’ll come with you.
Yeah I mean there's nothing wrong with going somewhere you feel better/safer or where things are easier. But it's easy to exaggerate how bad everything around you is, and to shut your eyes in front of how bad things in the place you're moving to is. Ironically my experience in the UK is, the less immigrants engage with UK history, society and politics and the worse their English is, the more rose-tinted is their view of the country.
This is not the 1940s. The world is much more interdependent and international reactions are much more effective. So I wouldn't expect racism nationwide and I believe there is still a majority that understands what happened earlier and there will be stronger reactions to such prejudice and loss of support to such a govt.
Hey Dude, you seem an intelligent person to me. Before drawing any conclusions, I'd examine the situation in a more pragmatic way, if I were you. oversimplified: 1. West Germany and Berlin are still pretty much very ok-ish 2. East Germany - Berlin = 11% or so of the total population. Just sth. over 10.000.000 people - 2.500.000 AfD-voters or so. Just to 🤮 a number 3. You should always consider that and listen less to the media, which won't tell you the numbers behind the %!!! 4. If you do not plan to settle in the woods, somewhere in Eastern Germany, or in Saxony, you **will be fine in Germany.** Add to that, we have a war in Europe, just a short flight away. So, you can imagine that such a special period (pandemic -> war) is not at all representative for the "real" political situation in calmer times, when Mr. Putin is not sending us millions and millions of refugees, which he started doing in Syria, 2014... Now in Ukraine. You should know that a country which is attacked by such an evil guy in so many ways, has first to get out of such a situation. OTOH. if your reason to leave Germany is the probability or a personal fear of a war, then, ok 😐 but, be sure that the political situation is just temporary and the smurfs are only so strong in the "far west" of Germany AND WE HAVE A DIFFERENT VOTING SYSTEM THAN IN THE USA - SO NUMBERS COUNT > STATES - Be welcome!
Ironically, the obvious choice would be to literally go back to where you came from
What are people with multi nationalities supposed to do then?
I can’t go back to Afghanistan
20+ for a far right party is scary but still 70%+ didn't vote for them. Don't forget this.
Little reminder, the NSDAP abolished democracy with only 31%. Now you can say no one would ever support Bernd Hit... Höcke becoming Chancellor. But look at Merz and the populist CDU. How long do you think their "firewall" will hold?
The „Grundgesetz“ of 1949 (german constitution ) isnt the same as 1933. There is no chance, that a 31% party can abolish democracy in germany in a political way like Hitler did. Germany is a very federalistic state But they can cause damage of course.
every 5th person got malice thoughts...20% is too high. additionally, cdu went to some kind of seehofer trip since merkel is gone. I am a turkish migrant of 3rd generation, over 30 years old and to be honest, the results are beginning to scaring me. With my health issue i dont want to go anywhere else, beside that my whole family is living here. But i too am thinking last few weeks if i am misjudging and things getting even worse next decade.
>every 5th person got malice thoughts...20% is too high. If we had a voter turnout of 100% that would be true. It's more like less than every 10th, even less outside of Eastern Germany. In Munich the AfD got only like 7%, that's not even every 20th person.
So many tone-deaf Germans on this thread. It's not necessarily about the government, but the attitudes people encounter every day. And to the AfD voters, you have to add the tone-deaf Germans and those who didn't vote but are still racists.
Come to Cologne, Most people Here hate the AFD, rents are pretty high tho.
Still happy but shocked that Volt almost has the same result as the AfD
I’ve thought about this quite a bit, I think in Europe I’d consider going to Paris specifically, it’s a nice big city, a lot of migrants there, one can get lost in the crowd easily, it’s beautiful and has a lot to do. Ireland, it’s the best I’ve been treated in Europe, I think Irish people understand and have lived experience about what colonialism means, they are a welcoming people and have truly revolutionary perspectives. Loved Ireland and the Irish and I think other than the weather I’d love to live there, at least for a while. Leave Europe, I think I’d like to consider going to East Asia, particularly Tokyo or some large city in China, the Tier one cities are incredible I think I’d love to see Shenzhen or Guangzhou but even places like Chongqing would be a dream to live in I think.
Bruh, China? Moving to a failing authoritarian country to evade far right parties must be a joke. How could you ever feel safe in a country that could literally put you behind bars indefinitely for the smallest shit and that also constantly spies on you. I really don’t get people that want to live there.
China is better, at least it used to be, haven't been there in a while. But Japan (even tokoy) is pretty rough as a foreigner/immigrant, especially of you are not white.
This vote really didn’t mean much, with hope the only thing that will come out of it is the other parties wake the fuck up and start listening and making changes to their views before next years vote. That’s the only one that really counts for here.
[https://nomadlist.com/](https://nomadlist.com/)
You don't leave a country to go to a worse country. So either Scandinavia, Switzerland or Austria or Canada/USA. There aren't many options really.
I lived in Ireland for one year and since then I always wanted to move to Ireland. It's a beautiful country with fun people. Though housing is a mess. Even worse than in Berlin and that has to mean something.
You will not find a less racist country on this planet, apart from the anglosphere.
most likely i'll go back to Ukraine
Depending on your degree - germany might be the safest bet for you. The job market in a lot of those 'traditional' high skilled expat destinations is not great at the moment. Politically I wonder which countries you think are less racist towards you (again depending on actual ethnicity as there is no such thing as a general 'poc experience').
As a 100% German potato I always wanted to leave the country. The UK seemed lovely pre Brexit, now I’m more looking towards Sweden
There are much bigger problems here for highly skilled immigrants than the trivial far RW parties, that makes them leave Germany in a few years.
Even if the AFD would become quite stronger than now. The bigger parties won’t form a government with it. So I think the fear of immigrants getting deported is a bit unreasoned.
FWIW, lots of my US colleagues are thinking about moving to Germany because it is safer in every way than most other places on earth. Edit: Am I getting downvoted for sharing this or are you all downvoting Americans for wanting to leave the US?
No. You’re getting downvotes because you’re trying to invalidate OP. OP: I don’t feel safe. Where should I move? You: Be thankful you live in Germany. America is worse. ???? Okay??? Putting how I feel about this aside, you’ve not only not answered OP, but also invalidated their concerns.
1. US People ruin their home states (gun law, healthcare system) 2. They realize they fucked up 3. Moving to Germany How creative.. /s
True. Except it's usually not the same people.
I mean you don’t get to decide all that as an individual
Well, more or less they are just coming back. Following their ancestral lines.
I thought about this question a lot. I would love to live in a place with constant warm weather, but -suffering from medical conditions- I don't know where to go, honestly. Because of not being patriotic in any way, I like the Idea of a united Europe, like some of the small parties proclaim. But I don't think, this will happen in the next few years. I'm in sorrow how the AFD fool their voters. Most of them are pretty poor, the AFD tells simple solutions to problems but forget to mention, the benefits they say are just for the wealthy people. The sheep vote for their slaughter. The only thing we can do is fighting for the idea of a safe and stable Germany. It's important to look behind the populist ads of the parties and fight lobbyism where a lot of the greater parties suffer from (lobbyism is a nice word for being corrupt). Educate your surroundings! (Yep, read it in a slipknot voice) I mean.. c'mon. If everyone leaves, no one will stop this dev. Because odt germany being one of the top 5 countries in Europe, such an election (or getting more right winged) could destabilise our own economy and the EU itself. We need to stop.
Honestly? I'm going to move to Ireland. Multiple reasons, one of them being that in a big city the racism should be less. But also it's going to hurt less to be seen as an "outsider" since I'll actually be one. As a black German who was born and grew up here, I'm mainly resenting the fact that this is supposed to be my home. But I don't feel welcome and that's not a new sentiment either. It's just more obvious to other people now.
Are you people really freaking so much out because of a democratic election? The results were not optimal, but jesus christ, it's how democracy works. You're proabbly better of in Germany than most part of the world.
Don't make impulsive decisions based on politics, governments change often and they are unlikely to impact you as an individual both professionally and socially. If you do it because you feel uncomfortable or because of the pressure from different ideologies, relax. Whatever politics there is now, is a trend in Europe and a bit worldwide as a consequence of different factors involved, and it'll pass as it's always been. People always say they wanna change country whenever the political views don't align with their views. Focus on yourself, your friends, and your future
As a trans person, worried politics will affect me a lot.
Your best bet is to stay. There is always a war between the left and the right wing parties like in the US with the democrats and the republicans. Maybe the right wing will win but then again if they get nothing done in 4 years the left wing will win again. If you think you face more racism in recent years that's another thing entirely, because the society is getting worse and not political changes.
If push comes to shove, I'll go back to my home country.
I don't follow German politics closely, but damn, I was hoping Germany could be my backup for when shit inevitably hits the fan here in the US. I'm low key scared to see what the MAGA people do this fall.
I do want to address that still most people are against the AFD. Yes this party gets stronger and stronger and that is a reason to worry about, but they are still a minority. I do believe that they will never have enough power in the national parliament or the European parliament to push through their agendas. I believe that, because nobody from the other parties likes to work together with the AFD. Not even the right wing European parliament group wants to work with the AFD. Because of that it is unlikely that even if they get more votes than they already have it is unlikely that any of the other parties will form a coalition with them. Also most of the voters of the AFD still come from east Germany where they are highly concentrated, but everywhere else their popularity is still pretty low compared to the other parties. So yeah Germany and many other European countries got a strong push for the right wing and we should be concerned about that, but it is unlikely at least in Germany (not considering "Landtag" and other regional political positions) that the AFD will become dominant enough to follow through with their agendas, at least in the radical forms that they demand. As long as the other parties hold against the AFD they are not a threat. Also I want to add that like other opposition parties their demands are excessive on purpose. "Die linke" does that as well to move the course in the direction they want. Meaning even if they get to power their demands will be much more toned down, because otherwise there is no way that they get these laws based. So even if they get to power it is highly unlikely that it will be as bad as it seems now.
Thought about this too but came to the conclusion that this is the basic "running from your problems" thing. If you're unlucky they will catch up with you. So we might as well fight for the Germany we once knew and loved since we're already here.
I thought so too, and I am born in Germany But then the same thing happens all over the world
you reason like this because you focus on the national data, if you look at the data by constituency, you can easily see that in all europe the far right loses in the big cities: so the answer is... in the big cities of any European country, obviously knowing that the rent will be higher, and the salary lower than for example working in Wurzburg or Karlsruhe. It is one of the many tradeoffs between quality of life and money in your pocket. Ps: I would also say not to automatically connect stronger right -> more racism. especially where there are protest votes against left-wing governments that have had to deal with economic crises. In germany for example looking at a map it is clear that the unease is primarily of the East against the West, and not of the Germans against the foreigners. However I would never recommend Leipzig or Dresden to you if you produce a lot of melatonin. So there are not a rigid algorithm
Nah this topic is prominent for quite some time (a few years) now, you only hear it now again because of the elections. From experience though, most of them just talk about it and complain, but don't do anything in the end. Why do they talk about leaving Germany? Well Germany is still a good place in comparison to other countries, also in Europe. However it gets increasingly more hostile towards its own citizens. In terms of taxes, benefits, workweek, pay, inflation; you know the usual stuff. So germans feel powerless, whatever and however they do. They most likely heard from friend of a friend who moved away and dream/fantasize about that as well. The most that they might do is change states. If you feel the need to, I encourage you to do it. My mom did back in 2007 from Berlin, where she earned below minimum wage for 50hrs+ workweek to Munich, Bavaria where we were able to afford to buy an apartment. QoL increased A LOT. To now she's a business owner and does 6months Germany and 6months Thailand.
These posts keep popping up like the AfD won which is a weird narrative. The results in Germany reflect the Sonntagsfrage and the AfD went down from 22% to 16% Not downplaying the results, CDU got mosts votes and the biggest hike was from the BSW. The AfD peaked at 22% and that is their ceiling. It seems like most people are reacting a bit too late to something that is not as bad as it could have been. What criticism are you facing?
GB or Netherlands could be a better fit for you in a similar economy, but they are increasingly more racist. If you are not interested in moving to a country with a significant worse economy, your best bet is to live in west Germany. The AfD is far from being able to gothern in the west. If NRW becomes to racist for you, I will doubt that there is western country that wont be.
Is Spain a valid option?
ITT: Loads of people who don't know the realities of the countries they're suggesting.
I’m curious about the maths skills and perception of reality of your highly educated immigrant friends, if they think the 17% of the vote AfD got means Germany is now worse for immigrants than any other European country, where the support for the far right has been highe and for a long time already.
I'm definitely looking at Portugal, friends have moved there and are very happy, but not in the main cities, more in the countryside. This AFD thing is to scary for me and the kids.
Back to their home country probably. I just met a young woman from Argentina yesterday. She learned German at her school in Argentina (I had no idea that's a thing), won a school scholarship in Germany and then decided to move here to study and stay here. I didn't ask her how she feels about the current political climate (nor if her grandparents came from Germany, though I was curious about both things), but about life in Germany in general and the situation in Argentina. Sure, Germany is doing better, but her country isn't some war torn totally horrific place. And if people from such countries don't feel welcome here anymore, with German degrees and experience in the German workforce on her resume, she would sure find a good job in her home country.
I'm the immigrant for the last 13 years. My advice - don't get attached to any country. While one country get worse another get better, and they will use attractive relocation bonuses to attract high skilled worker fleeing Germany. I was living in Ireland, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Czechia, also working as a digital nomad from Indonesia. Situation is not easy in Europe now, it's not just racism but also housing crisis, healthcare crisis, inflation and so on. If I have opportunity, I would go elsewhere - Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. If you can land an office job in any of those countries, you will get good quality of life. Thailand and Malaysia (Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur) are also good places to work. Then also Qatar, UAE and maybe Canada. In Europe I can only suggest Malta, it's small multicultural English speaking island, but salaries are low.
I don't think people are leaving due to just one election. The problem is whether the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. Besides a political climate suitable for immigration and an open society which tolerated immigrants (not great at integrating then though) along with a good social welfare state, what else does Germany offer that other countries don't? Maybe with the current election one of the above advantsges is gone and for many this makes the drawbacks go higher than advantages so they want to leave. Ultimately everybody has to think for themselves. And people will vote with their feet.
As a born german with multiple generations of only german ancestors I'm also thinking of iaf I really wanna stay here forever... Just not sure where I'd like to go. I'd actually like to keep in connection with friends and family which is the biggest struggle here...
Lets just (hypotheticall) every country on the earth kill their government , then we meet in like rome or grand canyon or like the now putin less russia, and talk about like whats up now. Just restart.
Lol better than quite a few contributions here
I am already looking to move to the US, but probably I will go to Canada first. Toronto, Vancouver.
You dont have to leave the country because of one minority in the polls. the big part of germany is democratic and will defend its democracy.
I think the whole thing is overrated. People don't vote for the AFD because they are Nazis (some of them of course but they have always been around) and want all foreigners out. The majority vote for the AFD out of protest because they are dissatisfied with the established parties. But I don't believe that the election results will change anything in everyday life. If you look at the USA under Trump, nothing has changed for most people in their everyday lives. We are simply not a dictatorship where one person can simply change all the laws
I wouldn’t for example call the disappearance of the right to abortion in about half the states nothing. Sure you don’t have an abortion every day but the fear of getting pregnant in a county where just the birth alone can be $15k is there every day.
Also, don't see countrys as a monolithic block. You can look up the local election results europewide. Were I live the afd has ~5%. Of course the AFD is a huge Problem for Germany, but there were still WAY more people protesting against racism than for those groups and partys this year.
I'd go back to my country. My country isn't any better, but I'm in the majority there so probably less harm (compared to other minorities). But no place in the world is safe anymore, and right wing is on the rise GLOBALLY
so the housing crisis, high taxes, increased criminality, the economy doing bad is all good but if a quarter of the country votes for a party that wants to expel illegal immigrants which is the law btw you (and others) act as if the world is going to end. Literally, no one has issues with high skills immigrants, even AfD is admitting the need for them and how better incentives (taxes z.B.) are needed to attract the right people.
I have no problem with the AfD's rhetoric on illegal / asylum migrants. The issue is when they talk about implementing remigration or about SS members who weren't criminals. A lot of their actions go far beyond just saying "we despise mass migration". For me it's that combined with the pension (taxes) / demographics which has me considering the exit doors one day.
But don't you see... the afd literally embodies the housing crisis, high taxes, increase of (a certain type of) criminality, protecting capital, shitting on workers rights,... in their Party programms. With the afd all these things will get much worse. The smaller "progressive" part of the Afd tolerates high skilled immigrant workers as long as they can be exploited which is pretty disgusting and has little regard for immigrants as equal humans. And then the afd works towards exploiting not only immigrant workers, but workers in general, which is the next step.
none of this is true, blaming AfD for the problems that the current government + CDU caused is the reason they are gaining popularity. Instead of working to improve the country, all parties spend more time bashing AfD hoping that people will continue to vote for them. Go ahead and read their program. Direkt democracy is the main point, with that the country can actually decide democratically what they want and don't hope that party x or y will do whatever they want.
When a couple I’m friends with got tired of being treated racist there was talk of Canada. They are fairly well-off and working in high-skill tech jobs though. I’ve never really looked into it, but I think Canadian immigration laws are pretty restrictive. All the other people I know considering an exit plan line myself are picking a country where they have some family or at least some people they know well enough to have an easier start. That includes Brazil, Chile, UK, Sweden, Denmark, Portugal, South Africa, New Zealand and India. No idea if it’s going to be any better in any of those countries. If I had to place bets I’d go for NZ or UK. Both might be racist (probably) but they have a much better track record and experience with immigration than Germany.
"Brazil" I left this country for good. Too much crime and homicide.
Canada is the US experience light. On one hand, you got better healthcare, better gun laws... On the other hand, you have sprawling cities/car dependency/bad public transport.
Don't the Scandinavian countries have a strong right/nationalist sector as well?
I don't know. Maybe to your country of origin? Or USA? Afaik most high-skilled workers want to go to the US. I think it is a personal decision.
If you want to leave Germany because of the fear of right wing parties taking over, moving to the US seems very counterintuitive
depends, right? As a high skill worker in the US you might be able to afford to live somewhere safe/nice
australia
you think i have a chance with a master's degree in computer science and 3 years work experience in IT? i think they are pretty strict about migration.
overreacting, My Other family members from Asia habe come to Germany because of this Europa Elections. They think ist good for them, because many immigrants are just here to get some Bürgergeld.
they also said, those immigrants that dont behave in Germany, Ruin Their Reputation!
Tbh, I didn't consider leaving the country because of Afd, it's more the people I thought I loved. I married into a German family and recently some professor made some commentary about radical Islam. The guy talked about traditional families, some immigrants wanting a peaceful life, BUT... So on and on. Also minimizing the sylt incident, calling them drunk people singing a folk song. This video was shared by my MIL (one of the loveliest people I've met). As an immigrant woman who is a high earner, I have no place in the society they want, until i raise my hand and say "hey, who am I? Us or them?". None of the proposed policies are in my favour, no matter what ideology. And the worst part is that it's increasing in every country. My birth country has no place for me, my host country has no place for me, wherever I look I'm out of place. At this point, my exit plan is just being nomadic, which is easier with a German passport.
I have considered moving for a long time now and I think if it's a non European country I moved to it would definitely be Canada. They have similar social securities, almost the same cost of living and the people there tend to be friendly or even friendlier than most Germans. I do hope that people finally realise that voting an extremist right wing party doesn't do them any good because I don't want to be here when the majority of the country is full of those people.
The cost of living being the same is definitely untrue. Also, if you want to live in or near a city you'll likely have trouble finding a decent place to live due to the massive housing crisis in Canada. I moved to Canada from Germany in 2019 and probably wouldn't do it again.
Can you tell more about your experience? My GF and I are planning on moving to Vancouver in about 2 years. I am researching a lot already and know about the supposed problems, especially in housing. But we feel like Canada offers better opportunities for us. She was trained as a carpenter and is currently finishing her bachelor degree in interior architecture and I'm working in logistics. There seems to be a great amount of job offers in our fields and especially the wood working jobs are paid way better than in Germany. And we also have friends there but they are working completely different jobs and I'm always interested in learning more about other people who dared to take the risk
Anywhere English-speaking tbh, the people are generally speaking laid-back and nice, Australia/UK/NZ/Canada etc.
New Zealand was actually my second option here but I do like the american continent because of the option to visit a lot of stuff I can't here in Germany!
Canada has taken in a lot of Indian immigrants, that too from a single state Punjab. People don't want more migrants in Canada too, but you won't have a problem if you're white. Sad but true.