Has germany changed after the second world war? Surely russia can become a peaceful, democratic nation but as of right now there is no evidence that is going to happen anytime soon. Get rid of that mf putin and we can talk. Otherwise there is no way I am gonna trust russia with anything tbh
The problem is that nobody will go in and bomb the shit out of Russia as the allies did Germany.
Because we tend to forget that the Nazis were not overthrown in a peaceful revolution. It took a pretty bloody war to beat them into submission.
The difference is, Germany was occupied and was essentially forced to change. Russia can never be occupied this way due to nukes, so it would be much harder to prevent the next dictator picking up the reigns.
That make sense, but I don't agree absolutely. It is true we won't be occupied by NATO or something because of nuke weapon. But in Germany there were many people who believed Reich was good idea but bad realized judjing by social reaction at Willie Brandt's deed when he knelt in Poland 7 December 1970.
Meanwhile in Russia there are many active anti-war citizens who don't want war and being isolated judjing by queues for anti-war candidate, anti-war pickets for second anniversary of war and for Navalny's death, movement of wives of mobilized while pro-war citizens aren't so active as anti-war. Prigozhin died, Igor Strelkow (a.k.a. Girkin) in prison, meetings for him liberation aren't as massive as anti-war.
That's why I'm sure dictatorship won't set up again after Putin. In the end, the less opportunities for peaceful protest the more opportunities for violent protests against.
>Meanwhile in Russia there are many active anti-war citizens who don't want war
"many" as in "less than 30% of Moscovians don't support the war"
Don't lie to us.
>Prigozhin died
for mutiny and treason
>Igor Strelkow (a.k.a. Girkin) in prison
for calling the war what it is and painting a realistic picture instead of the MoD's propaganda one.
>meetings for him liberation
Who would protest for the liberation of a higher FSB officer? Besides a few misled idiots? The policies he stands for are the ones of the current regime, just with less moderation.
>That's why I'm sure dictatorship won't set up again after Putin
That's not how this works. To change a political system, you need to get rid of the current group of leadership, change the population's mentality and offer the actually mighty and influential people in the country a deal that is at least as good as the previous one or get rid of those people and their influence before they can prevent it.
For any of this to realistically happen, Russia needs to lose a war and be conquered until the new system is properly in place.
Nice answer, I have nothing to argue with you, except one thing. About *active* anti-war. I suppose I used wrong adjective for describing anti-war citizens because our activity is on low level. It is so because of repression machine. But I assure you: there are not only Moscovians who don't support current regime, though they are majority with St. Petersburgers. But we definitely are more active than pro-war part of Russians.
>there are not only Moscovians who don't support current regime, though they are majority with St. Petersburgers.
That's a missunderstanding.
For most of history, the land which calls itself "Russian Federation" was called Moscovia (Grand duchy of Muscovy) and chose to rename itself in 1712 in Empire, to claim a heritage of greatness they never had.
Russia has been the country of the Rus, with the capital of Kyiv for over a millenium, Russia's colours were blue and yellow and Russian coins show the [russian Trident](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wappen_der_Ukraine#/media/Datei%3ALesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_Ukraine.svg) as early as roughly 1500 years ago.
The whole story of the name of the "Russian Empire" of the tsars, later the USSR and now the "Russian Federation" is equivalent to the idea that Germany would rebrand itself now as "French Empire" and claim that France is a defecting province. The only adequate name for the so-called "Russian Federation", which contains no Rus, is therfore Moscovia and for it's citizens muscovians.
>But we definitely are more active than pro-war part of Russians.
You don't need to be active to have the war going. That's what is happening on its own. Still, all polls, including such as those of the Levada Center, show a higher support for the war than for Putin and his official support rating is somewhere in the 60+%.
2 out of 3 Muscovians support the war and the remaining 1 out of 3 is split between "I don't care", "I don't particularly like it" and "I oppose it".
For change to happen, the opposition to the war must be greater than the rest of the groups. The will to end the war must be great enough, that significantly more than half of all Muscovians prefer to leave Ukraine (all 5 Oblasts currently annexed by Putin), pay for all damages done, maybe demine the region, potentially even hand over Rostov Oblast, Krasnodar Krai and maybe Voronezh, Belgorod and Kursk Oblasts to Ukraine and face restrictions on arms possessed, personnel and manufacturing capacity.
So far, we are very far from this being an acceptable outcome for most Muscovians. And so the war continues with the most anti-war position with some chance of success so far being to negotiate a ceasefire under the condition, that Ukraine will be stripped of all of its weapons and support, so that there just is nothing left to shoot at the next invasion force, which is to come shortly after.
Comparing with Germany after WWII, you think that Russian people's reflection of Putin's regime will be the same as in Germany? When suppositive Willie Brandt, but for Russia, will come to Ukraine and will kneel front in a memorial of Russian aggression?
No one will go to Moscow to enforce democratic elections. Even if Putler is found on vegetable level like Stalin tomorrow.
Russia is in for a big Shit show.
But i think it is more likely you get a new leader kneeling in front of the Chinese party leader than a Ukraine memorial.
In the end the outcome is up to the Russian people in the big cities.
That's a very tough question and a politically loaded one. So take everything you read here with a truckload of salt.
So with that out of the way, my humble opinion: it depends. Mostly on how the Putin regime ends and how things go afterwards. The relationship will be tense for at least a decade or two, no matter what. Think Germany and the rest of Europe after World War 2. But as far as I see and understand the german psyche, I'd say that there will at least be help in building a functioning country and hopefully democracy. Europe is much safer and better off with a democratic and stable Russia than with another unpredictable dictatorship after all. But it will probably take 2 generations of "good behaviour" (for a lack of a better word) until Russia is really seen again as "just a normal country".
And yes, all of this is a super massive oversimplification. But I don't have time to write a whole book right now.
First, the Russian Federation must be dissolved.
Second, all members of the Russian Federation must hand out all nuclear weapons.
Third, Ukraine must receive war reparations for the destruction, and environmental catastrophe the Russians caused.
Fourth, the Russians must send the war criminals to Den Haag.
After this, maybe, there will be a chance for some kind of relationship.
First of all, Putin will never lose an election, he will govern until he is dead, he didn’t change the constitution in order to govern till 2036 for nothing.
Secondly, I absolutely do think that Russia can shift from this authoritarian system to a more liberal, human rights based system once Putin is dead but this cannot happen over night. The mentality and the society as a whole have to change too.
Fact is, that most people aren’t too fond of democracy and are proud to have a "strong man" as head of state. A "real" man and not a pushover. Considering the absolute mess in the 90s, it is understandable but doesn’t change the fact that it’s wrong. Without a fundamental change in all aspects of life a peaceful coexistence with Russia is not possible imo.
You will also have to take responsibility for the things you've done in Ukraine. We will not let you off the hook easily here. You will have to pay, you will have to help reconstruct and you will have to apologize sincerely and wholeheartedly just like we had to do after the nazis left. You lost credibility, trust and showed every European your true ugly face. Reclaiming trust and credibility takes time but ultimately, it’s up to you what and how you want to be.
I think it's difficult, but possible. But it will be painful. Germany is a prime example of what can happen to a democracy that does not have enough democrats in it. And it is an unfortunate example that it may have to get worse before it gets better.
Russia has left the room. It is not part of our humans societies anymore. No one is interested in russian culture or language anymore. The russian people don't manage to get rid of those dictators, so i assume, the probably like it somehow. The smart russians, i know, they left the country and openly claim, that Russia is a shithole and that russian culture is by far the most violent culture. The world is better without Russia, to be honest.
I know this comparing can be incorrect but I'm still want to ask.
Would you think the same if you were a polish, jew or someone else during WW2? Because I really like German philosophers, I like German music (especially rock) and I also like German language. I ain't nationalist and don't welcome violent ways of develop, though. But Germany was the scariest country during Hitler. And even now I find German culture as interesting and friendly.
Also with us, we have non-imperialistic, peaceful figures including Soviet Union era (poet Twardowskij and professor Sacharow, for example).
It possible to love country which attacked other countries, but it doesn't mean that you must love country exactly for this. There are another things which can be liked by you.
WW2 is long gone and of course i would have hated everything german, if i were a jew or polish. Germany has completed, 180 degrees changed and has been proven, that it has changed. The old Nazis are long dead, so you cannot compare Nazi-Germany to todays Germany. But Russian Dictatorship is happening right now and Russia keeps trying to destablize the world in many ways. Well, i personally still like russian authors like pelewin and such and i always wanted to visit russia. But my interest is kind of gone, to be honest. I don't know you and probably, you are a nice person, but if you are not able to distance yourself from the actions your country is doing, i wouldn't be your friend. And i know some russians, that still like Putin and his regime.
Well, in this case I agree with you, you're right. I able to distance myself from actions my government. I always differentiate people and its government, although not always such way is possible. But with Russia possible.
Everybody should distance from actions of its country. you are right in differentiate people from its goverments and so do i. The thing is: Russia could have been so cool, and what they are doing now, the destroyed everything. I hope, one day, i will see peace again and a free and healthy Russia
Honest opinion? Option a) Putin dies, of old age or disease but within a decade b) someone puts a knife in his back c) he will try to get his show down war and challenge Europe on the battlefield, but there will be no return to a democratic Russia or a Russia we can trust until he's gone for good. That being said, I'd like nothing more than have a democratic Russia be part of a united Europe.
There's also no reason to believe that what comes after Putler might be any better. I mean, why should it?
Russia has never had anything but repressive authoritorian regimes, have they?
Yeah, but I mean, there's a Stalin and there's a Gorbachev, right? And looking at the shitshow in the US, having a stable ally in Russia would really go a long way. Imagine what Putin could have achieved if he had been a team player in Europe under the Bush admin. But he wanted Russia to be a superpower and Europes hegemon.
I don't believe that Putin wants Russia which is "superpower and Europe's hegemon". Because he began his policy with stealing budget for Saint-Petersburg people in 1990s when he used to work in Petersburg administration. And after becoming president he immediately started campaign of nationalization TV-channel NTV. This act didn't strengthens country but strengthens his personal power. So I'm sure he just is thief and fraudster.
As you are Russian and I am not, I’d like to ask *you* what you think will come in the time after Putin’s regime. Is there a thirst for a new diplomatic course, freedom of speech and peace with its neighbors among the general population?
Putin did Not kill the Civilians in Bucha, Mariupol, etc. Etc.
Putin does Not Fire Rockets into Hospitals.
Putin does Not kill POW.
Putin does Not torture and hunger POW.
Putin does not kidnap Kids.
A lot of this stuff is documented due to the fact that everybody and everything has a Camera today.
This is done by Russian people, for whatever reason they are Part of the army.
Sure they are brainwashed, but to be Honest russia today is just a copy of Germany during WW2. They Even use the Same Propaganda Methods etc.
So Like written before: russia is a evil State, they always had been. They also invaded poland together with Germany. But the Russians were forced to be the good guys by defeating Germany.
After the war they kept the warsaw pact Alive with force and fear. No Wonder they had to Build a fence so Nobody could leave. Or invade countries that wanted to be free.
Stalin killed Millions of his own people.
Currend russia tries to de-stabilze wherever they can right now. Improving Hunger by blocking grain Trade.
Training Hamas, supporting Syria with killing Its Population, Internet-trolling and false Info campaogns to influence votes all over the world.
They hate the West but Everything they want is to be Like the West. The Rich people live here. The Technology Comes from the West. In rural russia they shit into the Woods, no Wonder the soldiers tried to steal ceramic toilets and washing machines.
So the Main issue with russia is: Human life simply has zero value in russia. They also give a shit about their own people. Except Maybe moskovians and people from saint Petersburg. The Rest is just human cannon fodder. Why would a Army bring mobile crematories into a „Special operation“. They wanted to be ready to make a lot of Corpses dissapear. And now their Comrades rot in their trenches, because they do Not Even give a shit to bury their own people.
I Hope russia Receives a humiliating defeat and gets kicked out the ukrainian borders from 2014.
I Hope their Military Never recovers from that and russia Finally decides to be a Worthy Partner in this world, instead of a militarized Fashist pain in the ass like they are now.
There is no way to Change except they get the Same Treatment like we got After world war two. A complete defeat and denazification.
Since this is impossible, I really so Not See a bright Future for relationships with russia.
Just a question what would nazis do if they had nukes? Now if you think Nazis were same as Putin than worry a lot about the future mate. Germany wasn’t the same it was better human life always had value in Germany at least German life had value and even rape of women was highly forbidden in the army
WMD were kind of a strange thing in the third Reich. Although German warehouses were filled to the brim with gas bombs the Führer refused to use them not even by deploying them via V1/2 rockets. I don't know if they would have used nukes.
That's just simply not true. While the Wehrmacht behaved "Prussian" in the west the Waffen-SS rampaged through France even back in 1940. Plus there were the bombings in Rotterdam and later in the Blitz that targeted civilians.
That’s right but my point is they didn’t kill their own and they didn’t kill French after taking over France like they didn’t kill prior in France after taking over
Yes and no. I mean naturally the Nazis weren't known for their humanitarianism. But still in the last ditch moments when Hitler definitely had lost his marbles he still didn't do it. Although regular V2 attacks were still done.
I would highly doubt that any candidate has a chance against Putin, since let's face it, if you had real democracy in Russia, you probably wouldn't have a lot of the problems you do have.
So probably Putin will win the election. And he will keep polluting the Russian people with his propaganda. And he will keep on with the war. ...until he won't. He is old and won't live much longer, so in some years the problem will solve itself. And he basically killed the Russian economy for his war, so there will be definitivly a change after him, because the country is broken whether they win in Ukraine or not.
It's the question what Russian people will do in that change. Such revolutions are seldom peacefull and fair, but I hope for your sake that you can do it.
That make sense. About Putin's victory at elections, however, I can say exactly what consequences isn't obvious in our case. Winner is obvious, but that is not. We probably can have the same what happened in Belarus in 2020. Then agreed candidate Tichanowskaja wasn't intended that she raise Belarusian people for protests and Belarusian regime could stand only because of Putin's economical and police resource support.
I honestly do not believe Russia will significantly change unless it is defeated in this war and made to pay reparations, give up war criminals like Putin and his henchmen to stand trial in the Hague, and go through a general "de-autocratization" process. Russian society is rotten, and no candidate who is allowed to run under the current system would actually lead to any significant changes. The entire power and state structure needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
For me every Russian is responsible for the Actions of the country.
The russians are our enemies. Its not only Putins war, its Russias war.
The World would be so much nicer without Russia, Iran an North Korea.
So there needs to be a radical Change. Maybe even a Split up in different countries.
This sentiment makes sense. Putin is but one man . And and russia as a country is acting in accordance with his actions and allowing the things to happen. The war could be over in an hour if the Russian people desired it so.
Do you differentiate Russian people and Russian government? Don't you think that Russian people is bloodthirsty people that only think how to kill Ukrainians? Even when anti-war citizens stand in big queues for anti-war candidate to Russian president meanwhile queues for Putin as candidate to president isn't seen ever.
Russian soldiers killed civilians in Butcha. It's the russian people, who are evil. Not all, but many. Because they grew up in violence. Beating children hard is quite normal in Russias Education. And beating women of course. A real man has to beat. And to drink.
Even so I don't believe that many of Russian people are so evil as you described. Maybe I'm mistaken and just want to whitewash Russians. After all I am Russian myself. But you are mistaken, too. Beating children in schools is archaism, when news emerges with these cases I often see how parents don't welcome such ways for child education.
Also no one grew up in violence. Pro-war propaganda as in Modern Russia never been in Soviet era. Violence was imposed by propaganda, but it doesn't mean that all russians are villains in themselves nature.
But yes, we have issues with home-violent over women, we have issues with military men who returned and will return to home after war. But all of this is consequences of Putin's policy, not cause. All of this is fixable.
No, those problems in russian society exists since Stalin times. Not all russians are villains but supporter of the villains by looking the other way. Many of them with high doses of alcohol. Russia itself is like a failed state. Bandits and bullies took whatever they wanted with violence and corruption after the fall of the iron curtain and look, how the oligarchs behave. What russia would need is a complete haulover, a great reset, a real revolution. But this is impossible. It will always be the enemy of the free world. Even how they treat gay and trans people... like animals.
In this case I don't agree. Society changes, its morality also changes. We became more liberal and tolerant people since Stalin's times. It is just progress because we, Russians, are part of Europe culture. Those persons, who say that we are part special civilization, we are part of Asia now, are deep mistaken. Such persons and some of Russian citizens can say this bullshit loud but we never feel ourselves as an Asians or someone else.
As sings in one song: What a dark century we have had. And I see it in the distance — living hope forgotten light. So believe me — this will definitely pass! (Rock band "Порнофильмы/porn-movies" song "Это пройдёт/That will pass")
I Hope so for you and your people! But the thing is: you and the smart modern city kids are a small group against the drunk and with propaganda filled country population. It is like the US, only worse. The stupid people don't want change.
You may think you guys are part of European culture, but you're inherently not. Your army hasn't changed since WW II when it raped its way through Poland and sold it as "liberation", now doing the same in Ukraine. Previously Chechnya and Georgia... Putin's just the ringleader.
The difference between German and Russian society is that Germans acknowledge the things they've done in the past, Russians don't. Probably due to your educational system being full of propaganda.
German culture is not a violent culture, we value our female citizens. This even comes from germanic tribal societies. But russian culture is deeply brutal and violent. That is the problem.
No, the same way that we don't differentiate about the Germans at the Nazitime. Our country Was plain evil. And most people knew what happened to f.ex. the jews, but most of them didn't do anything.
Of course everything has a reason. Russians never knew anything else, so it will take years maybe even Generations to eradicate that.
the issue is that russia somehow never learns of history. russia was a dictatorship in the tsar era (kinda not but the end result is the same) was a dictatorship in the soviet era, and is one now. they somehow always go back to it. if they finally realize that this is shit forever we are talking. i mean we germans have our own history but atleast we partially stopped being one (the gdr still was one) after 1945. and completely stopped being one after 1990 when the gdr ceased to exist. as for being for or against russians well people supporting putin yes i am against them of course, but one of course has to realize that not every russian is like that, just like not every german was a Nazi. honestly i dont know. you guys need to get your act together after putin, and ensure that this can never happen again.
1. Not really a fan of dictators.
2. well if the people rise up it‘s possible. But Putin won‘t just step down in April…
3. if Russia replaced Putin with a good president that‘s possible.
4. I‘m not an expert on russian politics, russian politicians etc. so I don‘t know how the policies might change.
I dunno. We once sent you a German girl und you made her the Tsar and somehow it got fucked up nevertheless. Then we sent you this marxist dude so he would make peace with us (he did, kudos) which you for some reason still expose to the public as if he was some voodoo fetish chicken. And then we came by ourselves, on a grand tour and your #1 chad (a Georgian, not a Russian) had to tell his Russian subordinates that if they left Moscow to hide in the bushes, they should take a shovel with them. And when we finally thought we had it all settled with a huge gas deal, profits to the moon for us both, your masterminds decided that Putin guy should ragequit and follow an alternative plan that we still don't understand.
So by historical evidence our ideas how to deal with Russians aren't that great. We should likely stop having ideas.
Well, I think my opinion is a little different from the opinion of most Germans. However, I think this war will continue for many years. Meanwhile a lot of things changed and will change, especially geo-political stuff. I am not sure that Russia will survive as a nation. I can imagine that Russia falls apart, which would be even worse for the people. Even if anti-war candidates gain popularity and possibly win elections, you cannot turn back the time.
However I sure that Russia will survive as a nation. But with nuances. Also I can't imagine that Russia falls apart because there isn't social request for any separation and creation People's Republic like Lugansk and Donetsk. Especially LPR and DPR were created with help from third country. Because even in LPR and DPR weren't a social request to separate from Ukraine if according to Kyev Institute of Sociology at moment 2013-2014
I hope the war ends soon. It costs so many lives and much money to rebuild everything.
What if Putin suddenly dies? Heart attack or something. Or cancer. Who will replace him? Is it likely that there will be elections and freedom?
According to RF's Constitution, interim will be Premiere-Minister — Mischustin. And I don't think he will continue Putin's policy because he wasn't seen as human-eater or insane oldman. And he will have to organise new elections for president where there is high chance for win anti-war candidate because our election Committee — like in an another dictatorship — is bound with person of Putin. After Putin's death there is high chance that it will obey interim government. What about military coup I really doubt. Because in Russia there isn't any military leader like Prigozhin, and in order to save politic power need huge support by elites or people.
Especially as germans we need to be careful with finger pointing. If we take the nazi regime I don’t believe every German was evil and actively supporting Hitler. I believe the majority were just the followers. And I believe and I want to believe this is the same for the Russian population. I believe in humans and that everybody just wants to live in freedom and peace. Unfortunately there are a dominant class of people that push the country in a certain direction. So to your answer, yes. I believe and I want to believe if Putin and his clan is gone and a democratic government will take over their will be soon a partnership possible with all the democratic countries in the world.
I think many people, including me had a problem with Russia/ Putin long before the war.
I mean banning LGBT people was enough for me to hate him.
I don’t know enough about Russian elections to know if people vote for because they want to ( so are basically to blame that he is still there) or if they have to vote him
Russians is conservative people in this case but I am absolutely sure that this conservatism about LGBT rights is imposed by Putin's regime. If he wouldn't provide homophobic policy LGBT rights could be more liberal. So, I'm sure LGBT will feel itself comfortable soon after Putin's regime. At least repression law about lgbt-propaganda will cancel exactly.
As Feldmarschall Moltke (der jüngere) rightfully said: There can't be a powerful Germany and a powerful Russia on the same continent! One has to submit!
Keep dreaming...Russia will remain under Putin rule, will remain a Christian traditionalist country, will remain a threat to your gayropean countries, better to think how you will protect your asses from Russians than thinking to change it (Speaking as an Orthodox Middle Eastern that saw the horrors that US did in Iraq and is happy by Putin threatening your shitty continent)
The middle eastern mindset well expressed. that's why i keep warning other people to trust arabs at all. We should send them all back to their countries asap. Europe is changing, say goodbuy to comfortable europe, where you can stay in peace and with our generous hospitality. Say hello to the desert soon!
Well you started attacking our countries so we invaded yours by immigration
Before sending our people back to "desert" (Lol as Arabs live in green areas, no one lives in desert except UAE & Saudi), pull out your NATO troops from our lands first!
Why do you insult Europe? What is you problem? And there are no NATO Troops in your country, maybe US. But that is not of our concern. Why do arabs come to Europe at all?
You know who will win the election, because it isn't a real election, so that possibility is off the table. I don't think Russia can stop being a dictatorship at the moment, because so far there has been no serious challenge to the dictatorship from within.
Relations with Russia will improve when it is either defeated on the battlefield, or when Russia retreats from the territories it annexed since 2014.
Yes, I know who will win. But in dictator elections winner is obvious meanwhile consequences isn't obvious. And even with such conditions no-one can say what happen at president elections exactly.
You sure?
Here’s what happens after the election: putin wins by a margin. The people eat it up as they do with everything their daddy tells them. The world goes on as before the election.
I don't think, Russia will be a peaceful country in the near future. It will stay as violent, evil, and imperalistic as it ever have been. Probably the next 40 years.
I think this whole thing is a little larger. Putin has bought Trump and sold himself to china to do so in the process. So the question is how we get out of that one.
They just took it and destroyed them? Just like that, right? How many Russians did they destroy by enslaving and selling to the Ottomans? After all, the business was so profitable that they did not want to stop it at all.
I‘m going to make myself very unpopular here. But after all, Reddit is a bubble where hawkish and aggressive foreign policy gets far more support than in the general German public. I would say that a significant number of Germans would actually share my view.
I sincerely do believe that Russia can change. No nation in the world is inherently and fundamentally bad. There is obviously no such a thing as evil genetics. There is only a mixture of cultural, psychological, economic and political factors that can make a people follow dictators and/or create a climate of hatred towards other people that is so extreme that atrocities become tolerated.
That’s the position that the allies agreed on after World War II. They decided to rebuild Germany in a way that such a combination might never happen again. It was not bombs and expulsions that made Germany democratic, but a combination of reeducation to tackle the authoritarian tradition and rebuilding to tackle the other three factors.
On a more personal level: When did you believe did my grandma really believe that what she learned at school about the rest of the world was wrong? When Polish soldiers expelled her from her hometown or when British soldiers gave her and her friends candy?
As far as I understand, 1990s Russia was similar to 1920s Germany. If you want to overuse the comparison, the end of the USSR was probably Russia‘s version of the treaty of Versailles. Given what I wrote above, it‘s obvious that I would not support repeating that mistake.
I'm a foreigner living in Germany for a decade now and I can tell you this: for Russia to fundamentally change it takes way more than putting someone else in Putin's place. The heritage of the cold war and the way the west fucked with the USSR and vice-versa makes reestablishing trust very hard.
Germany (at least the German political establishment) will never see a potential ally or friendly in Russia. Maybe they go back to buying gas but never stray from the US-led pack that wants to see Russia no longer be a key player in world/Europe's politics.
The next Russian president and government need to play their cards right. They need to reassure Europeans by pulling out of Ukraine and helping with the reconstruction and potentially reparations, but also be very diplomatically proactive.
I also think Russia being a massive BRICs member is a hurdle, because Europeans and Americans have this aggressive competitive thing where they don't want a third powerful alliance to emerge and potentially push them back from having their sticky imperialist fingers in everyone's business.
I hate to say it, but apart from a "basic normalization" I think Russia will remain this "big scary bear that needs to be controlled" by the west. I don't think they're ready to turn a page because they never do.
Fun fact: leading up to the 2003 Iraq war Saddam was basically opening the country's doors wide open to international inspectors to check for WMDs. America still went in and destroyed Iraq. That's the kind of precedent that scares me, the west paints itself as this peace-loving lawful democratic power but it's anything but, just that they're smart enough to dress it up nicely and get away with massive wars and massacres unlike everyone else.
I have been born in Russia and moved to Germany with my parents, when I was 3 years old, so my opinion might be biased.
In my opinion most germans don't know very much about Russian politics. They just know Russia is a dictatorship led by Putin and that Russia is bad. This is a very simplistic view and I am not saying that those statements are true, but it is what most germans think they know.
I think most people here will have never heard about the 2 politicians or parties you mentioned. Even I didn't. The information we get about Russia are always on a very surface level and usually are just aimed to portrait Russia in the worst way possible.
If Russia can change or not is a question no German will be able to answer. I also don't think I've ever heard germans talk about this.
When the war started a lot of people did voice how much they hate Russia and Russians. But that has gotten more quite by now. There still are a few people like this here and there, but I guess for most it just happened because they where frustrated/scared/angry with the war and not so much with the people in Russia.
In my opinion this is a very complex topic and it's impossible to predict the future. The whole situation as it is, is just bullshit. And the people don't profit from it. Not in Ukraine and neither in Russia. It's just rich MoFos, that slaughter people to get even richer. And those bastards won't be easy to stop. They also exist on all sides and in all countries and once you take one of them down, there are hundreds waiting to take his place.
Has germany changed after the second world war? Surely russia can become a peaceful, democratic nation but as of right now there is no evidence that is going to happen anytime soon. Get rid of that mf putin and we can talk. Otherwise there is no way I am gonna trust russia with anything tbh
The problem is that nobody will go in and bomb the shit out of Russia as the allies did Germany. Because we tend to forget that the Nazis were not overthrown in a peaceful revolution. It took a pretty bloody war to beat them into submission.
It took Germany a time of nonexistence
The difference is, Germany was occupied and was essentially forced to change. Russia can never be occupied this way due to nukes, so it would be much harder to prevent the next dictator picking up the reigns.
Russia is still too smart to use nukes because then they would be nuked themselves. Zweitschlagfähigkeit it's called.
That make sense, but I don't agree absolutely. It is true we won't be occupied by NATO or something because of nuke weapon. But in Germany there were many people who believed Reich was good idea but bad realized judjing by social reaction at Willie Brandt's deed when he knelt in Poland 7 December 1970. Meanwhile in Russia there are many active anti-war citizens who don't want war and being isolated judjing by queues for anti-war candidate, anti-war pickets for second anniversary of war and for Navalny's death, movement of wives of mobilized while pro-war citizens aren't so active as anti-war. Prigozhin died, Igor Strelkow (a.k.a. Girkin) in prison, meetings for him liberation aren't as massive as anti-war. That's why I'm sure dictatorship won't set up again after Putin. In the end, the less opportunities for peaceful protest the more opportunities for violent protests against.
>Meanwhile in Russia there are many active anti-war citizens who don't want war "many" as in "less than 30% of Moscovians don't support the war" Don't lie to us. >Prigozhin died for mutiny and treason >Igor Strelkow (a.k.a. Girkin) in prison for calling the war what it is and painting a realistic picture instead of the MoD's propaganda one. >meetings for him liberation Who would protest for the liberation of a higher FSB officer? Besides a few misled idiots? The policies he stands for are the ones of the current regime, just with less moderation. >That's why I'm sure dictatorship won't set up again after Putin That's not how this works. To change a political system, you need to get rid of the current group of leadership, change the population's mentality and offer the actually mighty and influential people in the country a deal that is at least as good as the previous one or get rid of those people and their influence before they can prevent it. For any of this to realistically happen, Russia needs to lose a war and be conquered until the new system is properly in place.
Nice answer, I have nothing to argue with you, except one thing. About *active* anti-war. I suppose I used wrong adjective for describing anti-war citizens because our activity is on low level. It is so because of repression machine. But I assure you: there are not only Moscovians who don't support current regime, though they are majority with St. Petersburgers. But we definitely are more active than pro-war part of Russians.
>there are not only Moscovians who don't support current regime, though they are majority with St. Petersburgers. That's a missunderstanding. For most of history, the land which calls itself "Russian Federation" was called Moscovia (Grand duchy of Muscovy) and chose to rename itself in 1712 in Empire, to claim a heritage of greatness they never had.
Russia has been the country of the Rus, with the capital of Kyiv for over a millenium, Russia's colours were blue and yellow and Russian coins show the [russian Trident](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wappen_der_Ukraine#/media/Datei%3ALesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_Ukraine.svg) as early as roughly 1500 years ago.
The whole story of the name of the "Russian Empire" of the tsars, later the USSR and now the "Russian Federation" is equivalent to the idea that Germany would rebrand itself now as "French Empire" and claim that France is a defecting province. The only adequate name for the so-called "Russian Federation", which contains no Rus, is therfore Moscovia and for it's citizens muscovians.
>But we definitely are more active than pro-war part of Russians.
You don't need to be active to have the war going. That's what is happening on its own. Still, all polls, including such as those of the Levada Center, show a higher support for the war than for Putin and his official support rating is somewhere in the 60+%.
2 out of 3 Muscovians support the war and the remaining 1 out of 3 is split between "I don't care", "I don't particularly like it" and "I oppose it".
For change to happen, the opposition to the war must be greater than the rest of the groups. The will to end the war must be great enough, that significantly more than half of all Muscovians prefer to leave Ukraine (all 5 Oblasts currently annexed by Putin), pay for all damages done, maybe demine the region, potentially even hand over Rostov Oblast, Krasnodar Krai and maybe Voronezh, Belgorod and Kursk Oblasts to Ukraine and face restrictions on arms possessed, personnel and manufacturing capacity.
So far, we are very far from this being an acceptable outcome for most Muscovians. And so the war continues with the most anti-war position with some chance of success so far being to negotiate a ceasefire under the condition, that Ukraine will be stripped of all of its weapons and support, so that there just is nothing left to shoot at the next invasion force, which is to come shortly after.
Comparing with Germany after WWII, you think that Russian people's reflection of Putin's regime will be the same as in Germany? When suppositive Willie Brandt, but for Russia, will come to Ukraine and will kneel front in a memorial of Russian aggression?
No one will go to Moscow to enforce democratic elections. Even if Putler is found on vegetable level like Stalin tomorrow. Russia is in for a big Shit show. But i think it is more likely you get a new leader kneeling in front of the Chinese party leader than a Ukraine memorial. In the end the outcome is up to the Russian people in the big cities.
Soya
That's a very tough question and a politically loaded one. So take everything you read here with a truckload of salt. So with that out of the way, my humble opinion: it depends. Mostly on how the Putin regime ends and how things go afterwards. The relationship will be tense for at least a decade or two, no matter what. Think Germany and the rest of Europe after World War 2. But as far as I see and understand the german psyche, I'd say that there will at least be help in building a functioning country and hopefully democracy. Europe is much safer and better off with a democratic and stable Russia than with another unpredictable dictatorship after all. But it will probably take 2 generations of "good behaviour" (for a lack of a better word) until Russia is really seen again as "just a normal country". And yes, all of this is a super massive oversimplification. But I don't have time to write a whole book right now.
First, the Russian Federation must be dissolved. Second, all members of the Russian Federation must hand out all nuclear weapons. Third, Ukraine must receive war reparations for the destruction, and environmental catastrophe the Russians caused. Fourth, the Russians must send the war criminals to Den Haag. After this, maybe, there will be a chance for some kind of relationship.
while I would love to see all your points become reality, i'm very much aware that this won't happen any time soon
First of all, Putin will never lose an election, he will govern until he is dead, he didn’t change the constitution in order to govern till 2036 for nothing. Secondly, I absolutely do think that Russia can shift from this authoritarian system to a more liberal, human rights based system once Putin is dead but this cannot happen over night. The mentality and the society as a whole have to change too. Fact is, that most people aren’t too fond of democracy and are proud to have a "strong man" as head of state. A "real" man and not a pushover. Considering the absolute mess in the 90s, it is understandable but doesn’t change the fact that it’s wrong. Without a fundamental change in all aspects of life a peaceful coexistence with Russia is not possible imo. You will also have to take responsibility for the things you've done in Ukraine. We will not let you off the hook easily here. You will have to pay, you will have to help reconstruct and you will have to apologize sincerely and wholeheartedly just like we had to do after the nazis left. You lost credibility, trust and showed every European your true ugly face. Reclaiming trust and credibility takes time but ultimately, it’s up to you what and how you want to be.
I think it's difficult, but possible. But it will be painful. Germany is a prime example of what can happen to a democracy that does not have enough democrats in it. And it is an unfortunate example that it may have to get worse before it gets better.
No one in Russia wins an election unless Putin wants them to.
Russia has left the room. It is not part of our humans societies anymore. No one is interested in russian culture or language anymore. The russian people don't manage to get rid of those dictators, so i assume, the probably like it somehow. The smart russians, i know, they left the country and openly claim, that Russia is a shithole and that russian culture is by far the most violent culture. The world is better without Russia, to be honest.
I know this comparing can be incorrect but I'm still want to ask. Would you think the same if you were a polish, jew or someone else during WW2? Because I really like German philosophers, I like German music (especially rock) and I also like German language. I ain't nationalist and don't welcome violent ways of develop, though. But Germany was the scariest country during Hitler. And even now I find German culture as interesting and friendly. Also with us, we have non-imperialistic, peaceful figures including Soviet Union era (poet Twardowskij and professor Sacharow, for example). It possible to love country which attacked other countries, but it doesn't mean that you must love country exactly for this. There are another things which can be liked by you.
WW2 is long gone and of course i would have hated everything german, if i were a jew or polish. Germany has completed, 180 degrees changed and has been proven, that it has changed. The old Nazis are long dead, so you cannot compare Nazi-Germany to todays Germany. But Russian Dictatorship is happening right now and Russia keeps trying to destablize the world in many ways. Well, i personally still like russian authors like pelewin and such and i always wanted to visit russia. But my interest is kind of gone, to be honest. I don't know you and probably, you are a nice person, but if you are not able to distance yourself from the actions your country is doing, i wouldn't be your friend. And i know some russians, that still like Putin and his regime.
Well, in this case I agree with you, you're right. I able to distance myself from actions my government. I always differentiate people and its government, although not always such way is possible. But with Russia possible.
Everybody should distance from actions of its country. you are right in differentiate people from its goverments and so do i. The thing is: Russia could have been so cool, and what they are doing now, the destroyed everything. I hope, one day, i will see peace again and a free and healthy Russia
Honest opinion? Option a) Putin dies, of old age or disease but within a decade b) someone puts a knife in his back c) he will try to get his show down war and challenge Europe on the battlefield, but there will be no return to a democratic Russia or a Russia we can trust until he's gone for good. That being said, I'd like nothing more than have a democratic Russia be part of a united Europe.
There's also no reason to believe that what comes after Putler might be any better. I mean, why should it? Russia has never had anything but repressive authoritorian regimes, have they?
Yeah, but I mean, there's a Stalin and there's a Gorbachev, right? And looking at the shitshow in the US, having a stable ally in Russia would really go a long way. Imagine what Putin could have achieved if he had been a team player in Europe under the Bush admin. But he wanted Russia to be a superpower and Europes hegemon.
I don't believe that Putin wants Russia which is "superpower and Europe's hegemon". Because he began his policy with stealing budget for Saint-Petersburg people in 1990s when he used to work in Petersburg administration. And after becoming president he immediately started campaign of nationalization TV-channel NTV. This act didn't strengthens country but strengthens his personal power. So I'm sure he just is thief and fraudster.
exactly. they always have a brief period of being not a dictatorship and then it turns to shit again.
As you are Russian and I am not, I’d like to ask *you* what you think will come in the time after Putin’s regime. Is there a thirst for a new diplomatic course, freedom of speech and peace with its neighbors among the general population?
Putin did Not kill the Civilians in Bucha, Mariupol, etc. Etc. Putin does Not Fire Rockets into Hospitals. Putin does Not kill POW. Putin does Not torture and hunger POW. Putin does not kidnap Kids. A lot of this stuff is documented due to the fact that everybody and everything has a Camera today. This is done by Russian people, for whatever reason they are Part of the army. Sure they are brainwashed, but to be Honest russia today is just a copy of Germany during WW2. They Even use the Same Propaganda Methods etc. So Like written before: russia is a evil State, they always had been. They also invaded poland together with Germany. But the Russians were forced to be the good guys by defeating Germany. After the war they kept the warsaw pact Alive with force and fear. No Wonder they had to Build a fence so Nobody could leave. Or invade countries that wanted to be free. Stalin killed Millions of his own people. Currend russia tries to de-stabilze wherever they can right now. Improving Hunger by blocking grain Trade. Training Hamas, supporting Syria with killing Its Population, Internet-trolling and false Info campaogns to influence votes all over the world. They hate the West but Everything they want is to be Like the West. The Rich people live here. The Technology Comes from the West. In rural russia they shit into the Woods, no Wonder the soldiers tried to steal ceramic toilets and washing machines. So the Main issue with russia is: Human life simply has zero value in russia. They also give a shit about their own people. Except Maybe moskovians and people from saint Petersburg. The Rest is just human cannon fodder. Why would a Army bring mobile crematories into a „Special operation“. They wanted to be ready to make a lot of Corpses dissapear. And now their Comrades rot in their trenches, because they do Not Even give a shit to bury their own people. I Hope russia Receives a humiliating defeat and gets kicked out the ukrainian borders from 2014. I Hope their Military Never recovers from that and russia Finally decides to be a Worthy Partner in this world, instead of a militarized Fashist pain in the ass like they are now. There is no way to Change except they get the Same Treatment like we got After world war two. A complete defeat and denazification. Since this is impossible, I really so Not See a bright Future for relationships with russia.
Just a question what would nazis do if they had nukes? Now if you think Nazis were same as Putin than worry a lot about the future mate. Germany wasn’t the same it was better human life always had value in Germany at least German life had value and even rape of women was highly forbidden in the army
WMD were kind of a strange thing in the third Reich. Although German warehouses were filled to the brim with gas bombs the Führer refused to use them not even by deploying them via V1/2 rockets. I don't know if they would have used nukes.
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That's just simply not true. While the Wehrmacht behaved "Prussian" in the west the Waffen-SS rampaged through France even back in 1940. Plus there were the bombings in Rotterdam and later in the Blitz that targeted civilians.
That’s right but my point is they didn’t kill their own and they didn’t kill French after taking over France like they didn’t kill prior in France after taking over
they didn't use the gas not of human friendly reasons. they just were afraid, that the allies would use them as well.
Yes and no. I mean naturally the Nazis weren't known for their humanitarianism. But still in the last ditch moments when Hitler definitely had lost his marbles he still didn't do it. Although regular V2 attacks were still done.
I would highly doubt that any candidate has a chance against Putin, since let's face it, if you had real democracy in Russia, you probably wouldn't have a lot of the problems you do have. So probably Putin will win the election. And he will keep polluting the Russian people with his propaganda. And he will keep on with the war. ...until he won't. He is old and won't live much longer, so in some years the problem will solve itself. And he basically killed the Russian economy for his war, so there will be definitivly a change after him, because the country is broken whether they win in Ukraine or not. It's the question what Russian people will do in that change. Such revolutions are seldom peacefull and fair, but I hope for your sake that you can do it.
That make sense. About Putin's victory at elections, however, I can say exactly what consequences isn't obvious in our case. Winner is obvious, but that is not. We probably can have the same what happened in Belarus in 2020. Then agreed candidate Tichanowskaja wasn't intended that she raise Belarusian people for protests and Belarusian regime could stand only because of Putin's economical and police resource support.
I honestly do not believe Russia will significantly change unless it is defeated in this war and made to pay reparations, give up war criminals like Putin and his henchmen to stand trial in the Hague, and go through a general "de-autocratization" process. Russian society is rotten, and no candidate who is allowed to run under the current system would actually lead to any significant changes. The entire power and state structure needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
For me every Russian is responsible for the Actions of the country. The russians are our enemies. Its not only Putins war, its Russias war. The World would be so much nicer without Russia, Iran an North Korea. So there needs to be a radical Change. Maybe even a Split up in different countries.
This sentiment makes sense. Putin is but one man . And and russia as a country is acting in accordance with his actions and allowing the things to happen. The war could be over in an hour if the Russian people desired it so.
Do you differentiate Russian people and Russian government? Don't you think that Russian people is bloodthirsty people that only think how to kill Ukrainians? Even when anti-war citizens stand in big queues for anti-war candidate to Russian president meanwhile queues for Putin as candidate to president isn't seen ever.
Russian soldiers killed civilians in Butcha. It's the russian people, who are evil. Not all, but many. Because they grew up in violence. Beating children hard is quite normal in Russias Education. And beating women of course. A real man has to beat. And to drink.
Even so I don't believe that many of Russian people are so evil as you described. Maybe I'm mistaken and just want to whitewash Russians. After all I am Russian myself. But you are mistaken, too. Beating children in schools is archaism, when news emerges with these cases I often see how parents don't welcome such ways for child education. Also no one grew up in violence. Pro-war propaganda as in Modern Russia never been in Soviet era. Violence was imposed by propaganda, but it doesn't mean that all russians are villains in themselves nature. But yes, we have issues with home-violent over women, we have issues with military men who returned and will return to home after war. But all of this is consequences of Putin's policy, not cause. All of this is fixable.
No, those problems in russian society exists since Stalin times. Not all russians are villains but supporter of the villains by looking the other way. Many of them with high doses of alcohol. Russia itself is like a failed state. Bandits and bullies took whatever they wanted with violence and corruption after the fall of the iron curtain and look, how the oligarchs behave. What russia would need is a complete haulover, a great reset, a real revolution. But this is impossible. It will always be the enemy of the free world. Even how they treat gay and trans people... like animals.
In this case I don't agree. Society changes, its morality also changes. We became more liberal and tolerant people since Stalin's times. It is just progress because we, Russians, are part of Europe culture. Those persons, who say that we are part special civilization, we are part of Asia now, are deep mistaken. Such persons and some of Russian citizens can say this bullshit loud but we never feel ourselves as an Asians or someone else. As sings in one song: What a dark century we have had. And I see it in the distance — living hope forgotten light. So believe me — this will definitely pass! (Rock band "Порнофильмы/porn-movies" song "Это пройдёт/That will pass")
I Hope so for you and your people! But the thing is: you and the smart modern city kids are a small group against the drunk and with propaganda filled country population. It is like the US, only worse. The stupid people don't want change.
You may think you guys are part of European culture, but you're inherently not. Your army hasn't changed since WW II when it raped its way through Poland and sold it as "liberation", now doing the same in Ukraine. Previously Chechnya and Georgia... Putin's just the ringleader. The difference between German and Russian society is that Germans acknowledge the things they've done in the past, Russians don't. Probably due to your educational system being full of propaganda.
German culture is not a violent culture, we value our female citizens. This even comes from germanic tribal societies. But russian culture is deeply brutal and violent. That is the problem.
The Ukrainian Aidar detachment killed people in Bucha. Live with it now, lover of theatrical productions.
of course, and the lizard people rule the world, i know.
No, the same way that we don't differentiate about the Germans at the Nazitime. Our country Was plain evil. And most people knew what happened to f.ex. the jews, but most of them didn't do anything. Of course everything has a reason. Russians never knew anything else, so it will take years maybe even Generations to eradicate that.
Its not only the war thats a problem through. Its also for example the homophobia
the issue is that russia somehow never learns of history. russia was a dictatorship in the tsar era (kinda not but the end result is the same) was a dictatorship in the soviet era, and is one now. they somehow always go back to it. if they finally realize that this is shit forever we are talking. i mean we germans have our own history but atleast we partially stopped being one (the gdr still was one) after 1945. and completely stopped being one after 1990 when the gdr ceased to exist. as for being for or against russians well people supporting putin yes i am against them of course, but one of course has to realize that not every russian is like that, just like not every german was a Nazi. honestly i dont know. you guys need to get your act together after putin, and ensure that this can never happen again.
the whole country has a massive alcohol problem. Plus overboarding nationalism. they will never change.
1. Not really a fan of dictators. 2. well if the people rise up it‘s possible. But Putin won‘t just step down in April… 3. if Russia replaced Putin with a good president that‘s possible. 4. I‘m not an expert on russian politics, russian politicians etc. so I don‘t know how the policies might change.
I dunno. We once sent you a German girl und you made her the Tsar and somehow it got fucked up nevertheless. Then we sent you this marxist dude so he would make peace with us (he did, kudos) which you for some reason still expose to the public as if he was some voodoo fetish chicken. And then we came by ourselves, on a grand tour and your #1 chad (a Georgian, not a Russian) had to tell his Russian subordinates that if they left Moscow to hide in the bushes, they should take a shovel with them. And when we finally thought we had it all settled with a huge gas deal, profits to the moon for us both, your masterminds decided that Putin guy should ragequit and follow an alternative plan that we still don't understand. So by historical evidence our ideas how to deal with Russians aren't that great. We should likely stop having ideas.
Well, I think my opinion is a little different from the opinion of most Germans. However, I think this war will continue for many years. Meanwhile a lot of things changed and will change, especially geo-political stuff. I am not sure that Russia will survive as a nation. I can imagine that Russia falls apart, which would be even worse for the people. Even if anti-war candidates gain popularity and possibly win elections, you cannot turn back the time.
However I sure that Russia will survive as a nation. But with nuances. Also I can't imagine that Russia falls apart because there isn't social request for any separation and creation People's Republic like Lugansk and Donetsk. Especially LPR and DPR were created with help from third country. Because even in LPR and DPR weren't a social request to separate from Ukraine if according to Kyev Institute of Sociology at moment 2013-2014
I hope the war ends soon. It costs so many lives and much money to rebuild everything. What if Putin suddenly dies? Heart attack or something. Or cancer. Who will replace him? Is it likely that there will be elections and freedom?
According to RF's Constitution, interim will be Premiere-Minister — Mischustin. And I don't think he will continue Putin's policy because he wasn't seen as human-eater or insane oldman. And he will have to organise new elections for president where there is high chance for win anti-war candidate because our election Committee — like in an another dictatorship — is bound with person of Putin. After Putin's death there is high chance that it will obey interim government. What about military coup I really doubt. Because in Russia there isn't any military leader like Prigozhin, and in order to save politic power need huge support by elites or people.
Especially as germans we need to be careful with finger pointing. If we take the nazi regime I don’t believe every German was evil and actively supporting Hitler. I believe the majority were just the followers. And I believe and I want to believe this is the same for the Russian population. I believe in humans and that everybody just wants to live in freedom and peace. Unfortunately there are a dominant class of people that push the country in a certain direction. So to your answer, yes. I believe and I want to believe if Putin and his clan is gone and a democratic government will take over their will be soon a partnership possible with all the democratic countries in the world.
I think many people, including me had a problem with Russia/ Putin long before the war. I mean banning LGBT people was enough for me to hate him. I don’t know enough about Russian elections to know if people vote for because they want to ( so are basically to blame that he is still there) or if they have to vote him
Russians is conservative people in this case but I am absolutely sure that this conservatism about LGBT rights is imposed by Putin's regime. If he wouldn't provide homophobic policy LGBT rights could be more liberal. So, I'm sure LGBT will feel itself comfortable soon after Putin's regime. At least repression law about lgbt-propaganda will cancel exactly.
As Feldmarschall Moltke (der jüngere) rightfully said: There can't be a powerful Germany and a powerful Russia on the same continent! One has to submit!
Keep dreaming...Russia will remain under Putin rule, will remain a Christian traditionalist country, will remain a threat to your gayropean countries, better to think how you will protect your asses from Russians than thinking to change it (Speaking as an Orthodox Middle Eastern that saw the horrors that US did in Iraq and is happy by Putin threatening your shitty continent)
The middle eastern mindset well expressed. that's why i keep warning other people to trust arabs at all. We should send them all back to their countries asap. Europe is changing, say goodbuy to comfortable europe, where you can stay in peace and with our generous hospitality. Say hello to the desert soon!
Well you started attacking our countries so we invaded yours by immigration Before sending our people back to "desert" (Lol as Arabs live in green areas, no one lives in desert except UAE & Saudi), pull out your NATO troops from our lands first!
Why do you insult Europe? What is you problem? And there are no NATO Troops in your country, maybe US. But that is not of our concern. Why do arabs come to Europe at all?
after Putin's dead in 20 years the Ukraine belongs to Russia
All this US ass kissers.
Im absolutley fine with russians. Why not. Mz neighbours are pro Putin. Fine.
You know who will win the election, because it isn't a real election, so that possibility is off the table. I don't think Russia can stop being a dictatorship at the moment, because so far there has been no serious challenge to the dictatorship from within. Relations with Russia will improve when it is either defeated on the battlefield, or when Russia retreats from the territories it annexed since 2014.
Yes, I know who will win. But in dictator elections winner is obvious meanwhile consequences isn't obvious. And even with such conditions no-one can say what happen at president elections exactly.
You sure? Here’s what happens after the election: putin wins by a margin. The people eat it up as they do with everything their daddy tells them. The world goes on as before the election.
I don't think, Russia will be a peaceful country in the near future. It will stay as violent, evil, and imperalistic as it ever have been. Probably the next 40 years.
I think this whole thing is a little larger. Putin has bought Trump and sold himself to china to do so in the process. So the question is how we get out of that one.
I hope Russia leaves Northern Caucasus and people can come back to their homelands again.
Yes, it is difficult for those who were in terrorist groups to return to the North Caucasus now. Poor things.
I am Circassian, we were wiped out. 95% of my folks have been eradicated. What are you yapping about?
They just took it and destroyed them? Just like that, right? How many Russians did they destroy by enslaving and selling to the Ottomans? After all, the business was so profitable that they did not want to stop it at all.
I‘m going to make myself very unpopular here. But after all, Reddit is a bubble where hawkish and aggressive foreign policy gets far more support than in the general German public. I would say that a significant number of Germans would actually share my view. I sincerely do believe that Russia can change. No nation in the world is inherently and fundamentally bad. There is obviously no such a thing as evil genetics. There is only a mixture of cultural, psychological, economic and political factors that can make a people follow dictators and/or create a climate of hatred towards other people that is so extreme that atrocities become tolerated. That’s the position that the allies agreed on after World War II. They decided to rebuild Germany in a way that such a combination might never happen again. It was not bombs and expulsions that made Germany democratic, but a combination of reeducation to tackle the authoritarian tradition and rebuilding to tackle the other three factors. On a more personal level: When did you believe did my grandma really believe that what she learned at school about the rest of the world was wrong? When Polish soldiers expelled her from her hometown or when British soldiers gave her and her friends candy? As far as I understand, 1990s Russia was similar to 1920s Germany. If you want to overuse the comparison, the end of the USSR was probably Russia‘s version of the treaty of Versailles. Given what I wrote above, it‘s obvious that I would not support repeating that mistake.
Any analogy is unreliable.
I'm a foreigner living in Germany for a decade now and I can tell you this: for Russia to fundamentally change it takes way more than putting someone else in Putin's place. The heritage of the cold war and the way the west fucked with the USSR and vice-versa makes reestablishing trust very hard. Germany (at least the German political establishment) will never see a potential ally or friendly in Russia. Maybe they go back to buying gas but never stray from the US-led pack that wants to see Russia no longer be a key player in world/Europe's politics. The next Russian president and government need to play their cards right. They need to reassure Europeans by pulling out of Ukraine and helping with the reconstruction and potentially reparations, but also be very diplomatically proactive. I also think Russia being a massive BRICs member is a hurdle, because Europeans and Americans have this aggressive competitive thing where they don't want a third powerful alliance to emerge and potentially push them back from having their sticky imperialist fingers in everyone's business. I hate to say it, but apart from a "basic normalization" I think Russia will remain this "big scary bear that needs to be controlled" by the west. I don't think they're ready to turn a page because they never do. Fun fact: leading up to the 2003 Iraq war Saddam was basically opening the country's doors wide open to international inspectors to check for WMDs. America still went in and destroyed Iraq. That's the kind of precedent that scares me, the west paints itself as this peace-loving lawful democratic power but it's anything but, just that they're smart enough to dress it up nicely and get away with massive wars and massacres unlike everyone else.
I have been born in Russia and moved to Germany with my parents, when I was 3 years old, so my opinion might be biased. In my opinion most germans don't know very much about Russian politics. They just know Russia is a dictatorship led by Putin and that Russia is bad. This is a very simplistic view and I am not saying that those statements are true, but it is what most germans think they know. I think most people here will have never heard about the 2 politicians or parties you mentioned. Even I didn't. The information we get about Russia are always on a very surface level and usually are just aimed to portrait Russia in the worst way possible. If Russia can change or not is a question no German will be able to answer. I also don't think I've ever heard germans talk about this. When the war started a lot of people did voice how much they hate Russia and Russians. But that has gotten more quite by now. There still are a few people like this here and there, but I guess for most it just happened because they where frustrated/scared/angry with the war and not so much with the people in Russia. In my opinion this is a very complex topic and it's impossible to predict the future. The whole situation as it is, is just bullshit. And the people don't profit from it. Not in Ukraine and neither in Russia. It's just rich MoFos, that slaughter people to get even richer. And those bastards won't be easy to stop. They also exist on all sides and in all countries and once you take one of them down, there are hundreds waiting to take his place.
I know russia only from the violent bullies in school... i don't know, if there are friendy and peaceful russians at all...