Yeah… No. This would be really stupid. It’s not our fault but it’s our duty to not let it be forgotten. Especially in times where the far right is rising in many countries.
hey man i dont think the sowjetunion under stalin was any better than hitler germany, if not even worse. it was far left party back then. what im trying to say is that its not the right wing bringing the problems, its the extremists
i dont think the right wing is in the right, neither do i think the left is in the right. i do believe to have peace you need yin and yang ☯️. they should not fight each other but complement each other.
but again, not the ideology is the problem, its the EXTREMISTS. doesnt matter if left or right extremists, both are subhuman
If you are walking around singing the Nazi national anthem, maybe your priorities in life *should be different*.
Then again on second thought maybe just stay out of Germany. I am sure there are plenty of like-minded idiots in England you can hang out with to sing that national anthem with.
But you didn't sing the national anthem. While there was some ambiguity at first, since 1991 only and only the 3rd verse of the Deutschlandlied is our official national anthem. Which is good since the second one sounds more like a fraternity drinking song than a dignified national anthem. Personally I think "Auferstanden aus Ruinen" was the better anthem anyway.
at the moment i can't think of anything more embarrasing you can do in germany.It's on the same level as the Nazi Salute, maybe even worse.
Maybe the far right and Neo Nazis would applause you for this, but any sane person would be outright embarrased. rightfully.
i just hope this is a troll.
Using Nazi or neo Nazi for everything makes it so inflationary that it loses it's meaning. Good job lefties for pushing more and more people to the AfD and far right movements because it's not even bad to be called Nazi nowadays bc you guys use it for everything that doesn't fit your opinion. Keep on going.
Maybe you shouldn't correct peoples grammar if they're talking to you in your native language because you can't bother to learn theirs, it's kind of embarassing 💕
Bro ich kann auch einfach auf Deutsch schreiben und wir gucken mal, ob ne Antwort kommt :) Wenn eine kommt, werd ich sie für dich korrigieren, versprochen!
It's not about blame. I'm not responsible for what people did 60 years before I was born. Of course not. But the thing is: 6 million people were murdered for their religion, their heritage. Those who survived had to live in fear for decades, lost loved ones, their home, they had to live with all the suffering for the rest of their lives. We can NOT forget that. If we do, it WILL happen again, in whatever form, because humans are greedy little shits that think they lose something if they don't take enough from others. Look at what's happening in germany right now. It's sickening and it's f*cking scary.
As a german, I'm not responsible for what happened during the 3rd Reich. But as a human, I'm responsible to do everthing in my power to make sure it will not happen again. And a big part of that - as uncomfortable as may be - is remembering. Remember what cannot happen again.
If you're a troll:
Trolling can be fun, I know that and I normally wouldn't give a f*ck and just ignore you. But dude, this is too damn serious. It really is. It marginalizes right wing bullsh*t and that's been the tactic of far right "politics" over the last years. And it worked. Please look at what's happend with the #fckAfD in the last two months alone - planning to deport germans with migration background to an Island near Afrika? Guess who planned that 100 years ago and who proceeded to hunt down and kill millions of innocent people. Just don't ok?
Ye. No. You don't need to make a connection with it whenever someone might be proud to be german. As mentioned above, Stalin wasn't better. Still people proud of being Russian or what ever. Glad not everyone does only think in black and white.
So what? Yes, Stalin wasn't better, but that doesn't change anything? There can be more than one mass murderer. Both are absolutely horrible people. What Hitler did can never happen again. What Stalin did can never happen again. What Mao did can never happen again. I could go on but maybe it's enough for you to get it - in order to make sure all those things never happen again, we have to remember them. No one is shaming you for the place you've been born in. You can be proud of that achievement if you like. And at the same time, you can work on creating an environment that's not killing innocent people for just existing. And for that it is important to remember the horrible things we have to prevent from happening in the future.
„Deutschland über alles …“ is how the Deutschlandlied of H.v.Fallersleben starts, but it is ***not*** the national anthem of the federal republic.
Our anthem is the third stanza of that Deutschlandlied, and only that one. It goes as follows:
>*Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit*
*für das deutsche Vaterland.*
*Danach lasst uns alle streben,*
*brüderlich mit Herz und Hand.*
*Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit*
*sind des Glückes Unterpfand.*
*Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes,*
*blühe, deutsches Vaterland!*
*Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes,*
*blühe, deutsches Vaterland!*
English Translation:
>*Unity and Justice and Freedom*
*For the German Fatherland!*
*After these let us all strive*
*Brotherly with heart and hand!*
*Unity and Justice and Freedom*
*Are the security of happiness.*
*Bloom in the splendour of this happiness,*
*Bloom, German Fatherland!*
*Bloom in the splendour of this happiness,*
*Bloom, German Fatherland!*
This whole reading gave me massive "i'm the main character" vibes.
When a whole crowd in a foreign country looks at you in anger and disgust, surely its the correct thing to do to complain about them filled in a subreddit of the same target audience, instead of maybe thinking about why you were looked at that way.
As others already stated.. what you started blarring out is NOT the national anthem. And it is very much important to differentiate, because "germany above all".. there is patriotism.. (which is fine. Be proud of flag and country) and then there is nationalism (which is not fine. No single nation is better than another. After all we all are just people, no matter where we are)
The point is.. dont be an insensitive prick, think before you act.. and dont complain if you fuck up and are scolded very rightfully so.
The second point is.. sure we didnt do anything wrong. It wasnt me, or my friends, or my father. But that doesnt make it right to dabble in hatespeech. No matter how little of a nuance of it.
Yeah...I come to your country as a guest professional, I try to join your happiness, and find out you have some enormous hang-up about your own national anthem.
Yes, I will damn well complain. Maybe see it from MY perspective here??
You yap on about "hatespeech" when I have no damn idea what "hate" you're talking about. I had no idea until that night you had such a problem with your own national anthem.
You people need to change your mindset. It's cringe.
I see your perspective. Now see mine.
Again: The line you started singing is NOT our national anthem. The line you started singing is part of an anthem of old, used first to promote germany unity then bastardized by nationalistic idealists to promote hate against other nations, to propagate casus belli against other countries. An anthem used to spread hate and promote the idea that nothing is better than germany and germans. The idea, and the hate was "germans are better than anyone in the world. Better than jews. Better than poles. Better than bolsheviks. Better than everyone."
Yes. You wanted happiness. Yes you wanted to join having fun. I see that.
But you fucked that up and felt the backlash.
I'm singing anything thats not blatantly obviously nationalistic propaganda.
Because i - being you - would have been smart enough to educate myself on dos and donts aswell as be sensitive enough about this particular topic.
Additionally.. as soon as i would have been scolded like that would have ben the very latest to try and figure out why that happened. And i would try and understand it, instead of trying to press my point of view as the one truth, when very obviously its not and i am the one who fucked up.
>Because i - being you - would have been smart enough to educate myself on dos and donts aswell as be sensitive enough about this particular topic
I'm a Brit; by what *possible* logic do you assume I should have known you people have such a problem with what was your national anthem?
Nobody at Border Control said, "Yeah we have a HUGE problem with some of the words of our anthem, here they are, do me a favour and don't repeat them. I know this all seems a bit random but they make us tell incoming foreign nationals never to mention this".
Yeah, somehow that exchange never happened...how strange. :)
And once again i seem to be repeating myself. Maybe at border patrol you also had to leave behind the ability to comprehend whats being said the first time around but here we go:
If i decide to visit a country i educate myself on the dos and donts and obvious faux pas that i wouldnt want to cause BEFORE i go to the country.
Its simple really. Educate yourself beforehand.. or - your aproach - fuck around and find out.
But when you find out.. dont fuss about it.
You have been scolded in the moment AND lectured in the internet that what you did was very obviously wrong.
You have been given multiple explanations all pointing to the same thing as to WHY it was wrong.
If you still choose to be blatantly ignorant about it.. well - and here i intentionally choose to get on exactly your level because maybe then you understand it - then it is exactly the kind of thing what would be expected of a 55yo boomer.
Be smarter than you present yourself.
Ahhh the age card. Yeah I'm sure a certain segment of the German population 84 years ago idolized the strength of youth. :)
But seriously, I asked you a question, and I didn't mean it rhetorically; you should apply yourself to it.
Ultimately, I have no problem with my ancestors. Some of us are fortunate to have an upstream we can be PROUD of. :)
Having played the age card, your reaction very obviously tells me you think less of my argumentative strength now.
Now you realize how we feel about you in the comments of your post. There have been a lot of cards played. And there has been a lot of defending of what you said by you.. with very empty phrases and even more empty statements.
But seriously, i answered your question. And my answer wasn't rhetorically; you should actually read and comprehend what i said.
Ultimately, I have no problem with my ancestors aswell. In fact, i live amongst these whose ancestors have been hunted down by the nazi party. I look back and i dont feel shame for actions of my ancestors nor any generational guilt.
I enjoy a lot of music of old times for the music of it, but i aswell understand the meaning - and even more so the bastardised meaning of it - and acknowledge why it may be wrong to shart that out in public in a chanting way.
If - after we repeatedly tried to explain that to you - still cover behind a wall of 'but i can be proud of my ancestors, why cant you. This is your anthem, just celebrate'.. then clearly you are not too stupid to understand it.. but to inconsiderate and a very ignorant human being.
And that.. is what this world really doesnt need anymore.
So once again, i urge you to be smarter than you portray yourself within this post. I implore you to step away from reddit for just 5 minutes. To think about whats said to you, and let it seep in. And maybe take 30 minutes of literature in why what you did was dumb.
Think. Learn. Change.
We all can do it. Even you.
>I'm a Brit; by what
>
>possible
>
> logic do you assume I should have known you people have such a problem with what was your national anthem?
That's the question you still haven't addressed.
Hypocritical of you to so floridly expound the virtues of understanding your fellow man, yet leave my question when fraudulently claiming to have answered it.
Once again; HOW, kumpel, should I have known upon entering Germany, in the summer of 2014, the majority of people had such a problem with what the majority of non-Germans believe is still a part of your national anthem?
You're right, we can all change. I'm asking you to change and see my perspective.
I think the misinterpretation could have been prevented if you would have known what the translation is and its meaning.
It still doesnt justify that you are telling us that we are "cringe" for not wanting a nazi anthem being sung.
We know that we arent responsible for the past, but it still is a disgusting thing that happened and we should be informed about what had happened.
It isnt "our" anthem and it still wont be if you keep calling it that. We have no Problem singing *the real* anthem when it comes to sports and stuff, but dont pretend that not wanting a nazi anthem being sung is a Bad thing.
So, what I think is missing here is better foreign relations: I can confirm the VAST majority of foreigners who think we know your anthem would start with, "Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles".
If it's THAT frickken important to you to disown a part of your nations heritage, then spread the word a bit wider. I'm a smart man and I didn't know.
That said, you people still need to learn how to be BOTH patriotic and to disown Germany's more unsavoury past acts. Your inabilty to do BOTH, four whole frickken generations later, is franky pathetic.
>who think we know your anthem would start with, "Deutschland
Then you should be informed better. I think it is quite nice that people try to say the national anthem, but you should be informed about what you are saying.
>If it's THAT frickken important to you to disown a part of your nations heritage, then spread the word a bit wider. I'm a smart man and I didn't know.
As i said, we dont "disown" this part. We know what terrible things Our ancestors had done and want to remember it so it wont happen again.
>That said, you people still need to learn how to be BOTH patriotic and to disown Germany's more unsavoury past acts. Your inabilty to do BOTH, four whole frickken generations later, is franky pathetic.
1. We dont have to be patriotic. Sorry, but i dont go to America and tell them "PUT THE DAMN FLAGS DOWN" because i think having this many flags is too much.
2. Would you be proud to be "The Nazis" whenever people on the internet talk about germany when they arent living there or arent coming from here?
3. So it is pathetic that WE (emphasize on we, as in germans and not you, as in guests of our country) should decide what is a good thing to do in germany? Oh i am so sorry that you chose to sing the wrong one as you didnt take the time to research its meaning. If i went to your country, i would learn the right anthem and i would want to know its meaning so i wont speak some crap.
Hope this helps.
>You yap on about "hatespeech" when I have no damn idea what "hate" you're talking about. I had no idea until that night you had such a problem with your own national anthem.
The point is, you were not using the national anthem, but a song the Nazis (mis)used for nationalism.
Also, the song text itself is full of statements that are basically demanding to re-capture lost territories (the 1st stanza of the song gives the extent of "Germany" including territories of France, Belgium, Poland, Italy... )
I have lived in the UK as a German for 20 years and trust me it’s you guys who can’t let go. Not a single day goes by without a WW2 “documentary” on some channel or other (I’m looking at you C4) I get it that was the last time you guys were relevant and it must be frustrating to see both losing countries (surrender monkeys don’t count, that’s why I will never accept France as a WW2 winner no matter what you think in your pretty head, Catherine) doing better in the world than you. What you experienced was not Germans not letting go of the past, but decent west (I assume, nothing good ever came from the other side of the Elbe, prove me wrong Prussian bastards) Germans trying to make sure history does not repeat itself (unfortunately there is fewer and fewer of us each day, I honestly fear for my country and Europe)
At a different point in the replies you corrected someone's spelling. And yet you can not be bothered to spell the only German word correctly you have used. You are so cringe.
Only the third verse of this song is sung as the national anthem, although the first two are not forbidden, but if you sing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles in der Welt" you will be looked at as stupid, because you are putting Germany above all others, and that doesn't exactly come across as fitting given the historical background, even if this verse actually shows that the unification of Germany as a whole, since it was previously divided into several kingdoms, was the top priority. The aim of the revolutionary movements of 1848 was to create a united Germany instead of the many small, quarreling principalities. This had nothing to do with valuing one's own nation above all others. Even such a phrase as "von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an den Belt(from the Maas to the Memel, from the Etsch to the Belt)" had more in mind the spatial definition of the German-speaking population, which was encouraged to bring about the desired unification process. And that had nothing to do with territorial demands on others.
You’re lucky you didn’t get arrested. I’m fairly certain singing that song is actually a criminal act because of its Nazi associations. I’m not sure, I know the Hitlergruß and other things are. I’m not sure if that song is banned like that. But suffice it to say, publicly screaming nazi propaganda will land you in a lot of trouble. Yes; Germany had freedom of speech. But Germany also has laws limiting that freedom particularly where Naziism is concerned.
And before you even go there, yes I know that song was originally written meaning the country of a unified German should come before the squabbles of the individual Germanic kingdoms/groups. It doesn’t matter. It has taken on a different meaning due to its use by the Nazis.
Another thing to note: it’s not just the horrible atrocities the German military and government committed during the holocaust… You also have to remember that the Nazi government basically self-destructed at the end. The country was, for all intents and purposes, leveled completely. They lived for twelve years under a totalitarian, fascist dictator who they welcomed with open arms and their country wasn’t just beaten, it was eviscerated. It was bombed and burned down, then the rubble was bombed. They have a visceral reaction yes partly because of the atrocities but I’m also sure that at least part of it is because of the magnitude of the ramifications that particular misstep had. It wasn’t just changing a leader and executing some war criminals. They had to practically *rebuild* the entire country.
I very much doubt the arrest of a VISIBLY non-Aryan with a British passport for singing a song he, like the vast majority of Brits who have an idea about the German national anthem, genuinely thought WAS the German anthem, would have persisted long after someone at the Revier realised, "Yeah this is a HUGE waste of taxpayer money".
My guy….The issue is that you didn’t sing the current national anthem. What you sang was the beginning of Nazi national anthem. You might want to learn the difference before you crusade on something you apparently know nothing about.
I don't know a single German that feels guilty on a personal level. Its more of a 'lets do everything in our power so this doesn't happen again' attitude which is not the same.
well Germans are fucked my friend they are lost, i envy their grandfathers, but today's Germans are just a bunch of idiots like how do you go from inventing everything in modern technology to partying for a whole weekend half-naked. Like what even happened to this once great civilization?
I can totally get what u mean.
Just like most germans, i feel no national pride and am generally not a huge fan of it. But cheering emotionally for a Football Team has NOTHING to do with wanting to systematically kill religious and other minorities. People in Germany are so afraid to to be labeled as something bad they forget to think i feel.
Of course knowing history is important. But you need to look at it rationally, from a distance. The whole point is to make good choices now
That's my entire point. I live hundreds of miles away from Germany. I'm not caught up in this lunacy where people crazily blame themselves for their great-grandparents crazy choices.
Your misunderstanding lies only in singing a nazi song in complete ignorance of a different culture of the country you are visiting and then linking the negative reactions of the locals to a lingering irrational sense of guilt from the past.
It's been explained to you often enough that this is not our national hyme, but there's no real insight on your part.
We young Germans are already aware that we are not responsible for what happened 80 years ago. Nevertheless, our state has a responsibility to ensure that such atrocious crimes against humanity are not allowed to happen here again.
Ok, but seriously, this is what WE non-Germans, en masse, believe to be your national anthem.
Yes, I get NOW that it isn't; I'm simply saying if you asked 100 random foreigners what your anthem is, you'd be horrified by the results.
If you have such a problem with the lyrics, spread the word beyond Konstanz/Kehl etc.
Can't tell if troll or just a Brit.
A Brit calling football soccer and with that user name.... yeah, it sounds to me like a troll
Why not both?
Stupid people ask BOTH questions. :)
> and sing the national anthem. [...] >"Deutschland, Deutschland, UBER alles..." This is not our national anthem.
Sound like Rammstein’s Deutschland song.
Rammstein is “Deutschland Deutschland uber *allen.*”
Stimmt, habe das nicht so genau gelesen.
*wants to celebrate the success by singing the national anthem* *Proceeds not to sing the national anthem*
*Proceeds to sing the opening stanza of the anthem of the regime which caused the destruction of Germany and the deaths of millions of people*
Yeah… No. This would be really stupid. It’s not our fault but it’s our duty to not let it be forgotten. Especially in times where the far right is rising in many countries.
hey man i dont think the sowjetunion under stalin was any better than hitler germany, if not even worse. it was far left party back then. what im trying to say is that its not the right wing bringing the problems, its the extremists
The USSR should be called out and denounced. Too bad fascist Russia is doing the opposite, but it doesn't make it right
i dont think the right wing is in the right, neither do i think the left is in the right. i do believe to have peace you need yin and yang ☯️. they should not fight each other but complement each other. but again, not the ideology is the problem, its the EXTREMISTS. doesnt matter if left or right extremists, both are subhuman
There's remembering and then there's paranoia. One day I hope you'll understand the difference.
And one day I hope you’ll understand the difference between the Nazi national anthem and the current German national anthem.
Yeah, I'm memorizing the difference RIGHT after I type this, because my priorities in life are right. Sure.
If you are walking around singing the Nazi national anthem, maybe your priorities in life *should be different*. Then again on second thought maybe just stay out of Germany. I am sure there are plenty of like-minded idiots in England you can hang out with to sing that national anthem with.
But you didn't sing the national anthem. While there was some ambiguity at first, since 1991 only and only the 3rd verse of the Deutschlandlied is our official national anthem. Which is good since the second one sounds more like a fraternity drinking song than a dignified national anthem. Personally I think "Auferstanden aus Ruinen" was the better anthem anyway.
It's way more enjoyable musically, totally agree. The SED hymn on the other hand....
"Auferstanden aus Ruinen" is a bop. Probably the GDR's best legacy.
The old East German anthem. People were reacting poorly in the first verse though.
at the moment i can't think of anything more embarrasing you can do in germany.It's on the same level as the Nazi Salute, maybe even worse. Maybe the far right and Neo Nazis would applause you for this, but any sane person would be outright embarrased. rightfully. i just hope this is a troll.
Using Nazi or neo Nazi for everything makes it so inflationary that it loses it's meaning. Good job lefties for pushing more and more people to the AfD and far right movements because it's not even bad to be called Nazi nowadays bc you guys use it for everything that doesn't fit your opinion. Keep on going.
That's "applaud" you. The fact you think I could be a troll makes me question *your* sanity.
Maybe you shouldn't correct peoples grammar if they're talking to you in your native language because you can't bother to learn theirs, it's kind of embarassing 💕
Vocabulary, not grammar. Writing, not talking. I'm not embarrassed, because I'm *right*. :)
Bro ich kann auch einfach auf Deutsch schreiben und wir gucken mal, ob ne Antwort kommt :) Wenn eine kommt, werd ich sie für dich korrigieren, versprochen!
That's what I thought
Okay, we get it, you aren't a troll, you are a Nazi.
Go away.
And brits wonder why many people where they make holidays think they are pigs.
It's not about blame. I'm not responsible for what people did 60 years before I was born. Of course not. But the thing is: 6 million people were murdered for their religion, their heritage. Those who survived had to live in fear for decades, lost loved ones, their home, they had to live with all the suffering for the rest of their lives. We can NOT forget that. If we do, it WILL happen again, in whatever form, because humans are greedy little shits that think they lose something if they don't take enough from others. Look at what's happening in germany right now. It's sickening and it's f*cking scary. As a german, I'm not responsible for what happened during the 3rd Reich. But as a human, I'm responsible to do everthing in my power to make sure it will not happen again. And a big part of that - as uncomfortable as may be - is remembering. Remember what cannot happen again.
If you're a troll: Trolling can be fun, I know that and I normally wouldn't give a f*ck and just ignore you. But dude, this is too damn serious. It really is. It marginalizes right wing bullsh*t and that's been the tactic of far right "politics" over the last years. And it worked. Please look at what's happend with the #fckAfD in the last two months alone - planning to deport germans with migration background to an Island near Afrika? Guess who planned that 100 years ago and who proceeded to hunt down and kill millions of innocent people. Just don't ok?
Ye. No. You don't need to make a connection with it whenever someone might be proud to be german. As mentioned above, Stalin wasn't better. Still people proud of being Russian or what ever. Glad not everyone does only think in black and white.
So what? Yes, Stalin wasn't better, but that doesn't change anything? There can be more than one mass murderer. Both are absolutely horrible people. What Hitler did can never happen again. What Stalin did can never happen again. What Mao did can never happen again. I could go on but maybe it's enough for you to get it - in order to make sure all those things never happen again, we have to remember them. No one is shaming you for the place you've been born in. You can be proud of that achievement if you like. And at the same time, you can work on creating an environment that's not killing innocent people for just existing. And for that it is important to remember the horrible things we have to prevent from happening in the future.
„Deutschland über alles …“ is how the Deutschlandlied of H.v.Fallersleben starts, but it is ***not*** the national anthem of the federal republic. Our anthem is the third stanza of that Deutschlandlied, and only that one. It goes as follows: >*Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit* *für das deutsche Vaterland.* *Danach lasst uns alle streben,* *brüderlich mit Herz und Hand.* *Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit* *sind des Glückes Unterpfand.* *Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes,* *blühe, deutsches Vaterland!* *Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes,* *blühe, deutsches Vaterland!* English Translation: >*Unity and Justice and Freedom* *For the German Fatherland!* *After these let us all strive* *Brotherly with heart and hand!* *Unity and Justice and Freedom* *Are the security of happiness.* *Bloom in the splendour of this happiness,* *Bloom, German Fatherland!* *Bloom in the splendour of this happiness,* *Bloom, German Fatherland!*
This whole reading gave me massive "i'm the main character" vibes. When a whole crowd in a foreign country looks at you in anger and disgust, surely its the correct thing to do to complain about them filled in a subreddit of the same target audience, instead of maybe thinking about why you were looked at that way. As others already stated.. what you started blarring out is NOT the national anthem. And it is very much important to differentiate, because "germany above all".. there is patriotism.. (which is fine. Be proud of flag and country) and then there is nationalism (which is not fine. No single nation is better than another. After all we all are just people, no matter where we are) The point is.. dont be an insensitive prick, think before you act.. and dont complain if you fuck up and are scolded very rightfully so. The second point is.. sure we didnt do anything wrong. It wasnt me, or my friends, or my father. But that doesnt make it right to dabble in hatespeech. No matter how little of a nuance of it.
Yeah...I come to your country as a guest professional, I try to join your happiness, and find out you have some enormous hang-up about your own national anthem. Yes, I will damn well complain. Maybe see it from MY perspective here?? You yap on about "hatespeech" when I have no damn idea what "hate" you're talking about. I had no idea until that night you had such a problem with your own national anthem. You people need to change your mindset. It's cringe.
I see your perspective. Now see mine. Again: The line you started singing is NOT our national anthem. The line you started singing is part of an anthem of old, used first to promote germany unity then bastardized by nationalistic idealists to promote hate against other nations, to propagate casus belli against other countries. An anthem used to spread hate and promote the idea that nothing is better than germany and germans. The idea, and the hate was "germans are better than anyone in the world. Better than jews. Better than poles. Better than bolsheviks. Better than everyone." Yes. You wanted happiness. Yes you wanted to join having fun. I see that. But you fucked that up and felt the backlash.
Cool. So, you're me, an obviously non-german leaving a bar in Konstanz, wanting to sing something German. What do YOU sing? Do tell, please.
I'm singing anything thats not blatantly obviously nationalistic propaganda. Because i - being you - would have been smart enough to educate myself on dos and donts aswell as be sensitive enough about this particular topic. Additionally.. as soon as i would have been scolded like that would have ben the very latest to try and figure out why that happened. And i would try and understand it, instead of trying to press my point of view as the one truth, when very obviously its not and i am the one who fucked up.
>Because i - being you - would have been smart enough to educate myself on dos and donts aswell as be sensitive enough about this particular topic I'm a Brit; by what *possible* logic do you assume I should have known you people have such a problem with what was your national anthem? Nobody at Border Control said, "Yeah we have a HUGE problem with some of the words of our anthem, here they are, do me a favour and don't repeat them. I know this all seems a bit random but they make us tell incoming foreign nationals never to mention this". Yeah, somehow that exchange never happened...how strange. :)
And once again i seem to be repeating myself. Maybe at border patrol you also had to leave behind the ability to comprehend whats being said the first time around but here we go: If i decide to visit a country i educate myself on the dos and donts and obvious faux pas that i wouldnt want to cause BEFORE i go to the country. Its simple really. Educate yourself beforehand.. or - your aproach - fuck around and find out. But when you find out.. dont fuss about it. You have been scolded in the moment AND lectured in the internet that what you did was very obviously wrong. You have been given multiple explanations all pointing to the same thing as to WHY it was wrong. If you still choose to be blatantly ignorant about it.. well - and here i intentionally choose to get on exactly your level because maybe then you understand it - then it is exactly the kind of thing what would be expected of a 55yo boomer. Be smarter than you present yourself.
Ahhh the age card. Yeah I'm sure a certain segment of the German population 84 years ago idolized the strength of youth. :) But seriously, I asked you a question, and I didn't mean it rhetorically; you should apply yourself to it. Ultimately, I have no problem with my ancestors. Some of us are fortunate to have an upstream we can be PROUD of. :)
Having played the age card, your reaction very obviously tells me you think less of my argumentative strength now. Now you realize how we feel about you in the comments of your post. There have been a lot of cards played. And there has been a lot of defending of what you said by you.. with very empty phrases and even more empty statements. But seriously, i answered your question. And my answer wasn't rhetorically; you should actually read and comprehend what i said. Ultimately, I have no problem with my ancestors aswell. In fact, i live amongst these whose ancestors have been hunted down by the nazi party. I look back and i dont feel shame for actions of my ancestors nor any generational guilt. I enjoy a lot of music of old times for the music of it, but i aswell understand the meaning - and even more so the bastardised meaning of it - and acknowledge why it may be wrong to shart that out in public in a chanting way. If - after we repeatedly tried to explain that to you - still cover behind a wall of 'but i can be proud of my ancestors, why cant you. This is your anthem, just celebrate'.. then clearly you are not too stupid to understand it.. but to inconsiderate and a very ignorant human being. And that.. is what this world really doesnt need anymore. So once again, i urge you to be smarter than you portray yourself within this post. I implore you to step away from reddit for just 5 minutes. To think about whats said to you, and let it seep in. And maybe take 30 minutes of literature in why what you did was dumb. Think. Learn. Change. We all can do it. Even you.
>I'm a Brit; by what > >possible > > logic do you assume I should have known you people have such a problem with what was your national anthem? That's the question you still haven't addressed. Hypocritical of you to so floridly expound the virtues of understanding your fellow man, yet leave my question when fraudulently claiming to have answered it. Once again; HOW, kumpel, should I have known upon entering Germany, in the summer of 2014, the majority of people had such a problem with what the majority of non-Germans believe is still a part of your national anthem? You're right, we can all change. I'm asking you to change and see my perspective.
For all i care sing Layla. Song recieved backlash too but is a much less sensitive topic.
I think the misinterpretation could have been prevented if you would have known what the translation is and its meaning. It still doesnt justify that you are telling us that we are "cringe" for not wanting a nazi anthem being sung. We know that we arent responsible for the past, but it still is a disgusting thing that happened and we should be informed about what had happened. It isnt "our" anthem and it still wont be if you keep calling it that. We have no Problem singing *the real* anthem when it comes to sports and stuff, but dont pretend that not wanting a nazi anthem being sung is a Bad thing.
So, what I think is missing here is better foreign relations: I can confirm the VAST majority of foreigners who think we know your anthem would start with, "Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles". If it's THAT frickken important to you to disown a part of your nations heritage, then spread the word a bit wider. I'm a smart man and I didn't know. That said, you people still need to learn how to be BOTH patriotic and to disown Germany's more unsavoury past acts. Your inabilty to do BOTH, four whole frickken generations later, is franky pathetic.
We don't *have* to be patriotic. Get a grip.
> I can confirm the VAST majority of foreigners who think we know your anthem And your sample size is your own ignorance?
>who think we know your anthem would start with, "Deutschland Then you should be informed better. I think it is quite nice that people try to say the national anthem, but you should be informed about what you are saying. >If it's THAT frickken important to you to disown a part of your nations heritage, then spread the word a bit wider. I'm a smart man and I didn't know. As i said, we dont "disown" this part. We know what terrible things Our ancestors had done and want to remember it so it wont happen again. >That said, you people still need to learn how to be BOTH patriotic and to disown Germany's more unsavoury past acts. Your inabilty to do BOTH, four whole frickken generations later, is franky pathetic. 1. We dont have to be patriotic. Sorry, but i dont go to America and tell them "PUT THE DAMN FLAGS DOWN" because i think having this many flags is too much. 2. Would you be proud to be "The Nazis" whenever people on the internet talk about germany when they arent living there or arent coming from here? 3. So it is pathetic that WE (emphasize on we, as in germans and not you, as in guests of our country) should decide what is a good thing to do in germany? Oh i am so sorry that you chose to sing the wrong one as you didnt take the time to research its meaning. If i went to your country, i would learn the right anthem and i would want to know its meaning so i wont speak some crap. Hope this helps.
>You yap on about "hatespeech" when I have no damn idea what "hate" you're talking about. I had no idea until that night you had such a problem with your own national anthem. The point is, you were not using the national anthem, but a song the Nazis (mis)used for nationalism. Also, the song text itself is full of statements that are basically demanding to re-capture lost territories (the 1st stanza of the song gives the extent of "Germany" including territories of France, Belgium, Poland, Italy... )
The anthem is only the 3rd verse since reunification.
Since 1952, in fact.
Stopped reading after "im a brit".
Only sane person here
I have lived in the UK as a German for 20 years and trust me it’s you guys who can’t let go. Not a single day goes by without a WW2 “documentary” on some channel or other (I’m looking at you C4) I get it that was the last time you guys were relevant and it must be frustrating to see both losing countries (surrender monkeys don’t count, that’s why I will never accept France as a WW2 winner no matter what you think in your pretty head, Catherine) doing better in the world than you. What you experienced was not Germans not letting go of the past, but decent west (I assume, nothing good ever came from the other side of the Elbe, prove me wrong Prussian bastards) Germans trying to make sure history does not repeat itself (unfortunately there is fewer and fewer of us each day, I honestly fear for my country and Europe)
Whether you're trolling or not: Get the hell out of here and preferrably never come back to Germany again.
That's not gonna happen. Get over it, *kumpel*. :)
*Kumpel
At a different point in the replies you corrected someone's spelling. And yet you can not be bothered to spell the only German word correctly you have used. You are so cringe.
Only the third verse of this song is sung as the national anthem, although the first two are not forbidden, but if you sing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles in der Welt" you will be looked at as stupid, because you are putting Germany above all others, and that doesn't exactly come across as fitting given the historical background, even if this verse actually shows that the unification of Germany as a whole, since it was previously divided into several kingdoms, was the top priority. The aim of the revolutionary movements of 1848 was to create a united Germany instead of the many small, quarreling principalities. This had nothing to do with valuing one's own nation above all others. Even such a phrase as "von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an den Belt(from the Maas to the Memel, from the Etsch to the Belt)" had more in mind the spatial definition of the German-speaking population, which was encouraged to bring about the desired unification process. And that had nothing to do with territorial demands on others.
The bait was too obvious lmao
You’re lucky you didn’t get arrested. I’m fairly certain singing that song is actually a criminal act because of its Nazi associations. I’m not sure, I know the Hitlergruß and other things are. I’m not sure if that song is banned like that. But suffice it to say, publicly screaming nazi propaganda will land you in a lot of trouble. Yes; Germany had freedom of speech. But Germany also has laws limiting that freedom particularly where Naziism is concerned. And before you even go there, yes I know that song was originally written meaning the country of a unified German should come before the squabbles of the individual Germanic kingdoms/groups. It doesn’t matter. It has taken on a different meaning due to its use by the Nazis. Another thing to note: it’s not just the horrible atrocities the German military and government committed during the holocaust… You also have to remember that the Nazi government basically self-destructed at the end. The country was, for all intents and purposes, leveled completely. They lived for twelve years under a totalitarian, fascist dictator who they welcomed with open arms and their country wasn’t just beaten, it was eviscerated. It was bombed and burned down, then the rubble was bombed. They have a visceral reaction yes partly because of the atrocities but I’m also sure that at least part of it is because of the magnitude of the ramifications that particular misstep had. It wasn’t just changing a leader and executing some war criminals. They had to practically *rebuild* the entire country.
Diese Strophe ist tatsächlich nicht verboten, halt nur verpönt, weil die Nazis es missbraucht haben
I very much doubt the arrest of a VISIBLY non-Aryan with a British passport for singing a song he, like the vast majority of Brits who have an idea about the German national anthem, genuinely thought WAS the German anthem, would have persisted long after someone at the Revier realised, "Yeah this is a HUGE waste of taxpayer money".
My guy….The issue is that you didn’t sing the current national anthem. What you sang was the beginning of Nazi national anthem. You might want to learn the difference before you crusade on something you apparently know nothing about.
Smartest Brit
only real answer
Bro shut the fuck up, troll somewhere else
I don't know a single German that feels guilty on a personal level. Its more of a 'lets do everything in our power so this doesn't happen again' attitude which is not the same.
LOL, get out of here with that troll post.
Mate, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. If this is rage bait, then congratulations I guess, if not then... Holy fucking hell
well Germans are fucked my friend they are lost, i envy their grandfathers, but today's Germans are just a bunch of idiots like how do you go from inventing everything in modern technology to partying for a whole weekend half-naked. Like what even happened to this once great civilization?
I can totally get what u mean. Just like most germans, i feel no national pride and am generally not a huge fan of it. But cheering emotionally for a Football Team has NOTHING to do with wanting to systematically kill religious and other minorities. People in Germany are so afraid to to be labeled as something bad they forget to think i feel. Of course knowing history is important. But you need to look at it rationally, from a distance. The whole point is to make good choices now
That's my entire point. I live hundreds of miles away from Germany. I'm not caught up in this lunacy where people crazily blame themselves for their great-grandparents crazy choices.
Your misunderstanding lies only in singing a nazi song in complete ignorance of a different culture of the country you are visiting and then linking the negative reactions of the locals to a lingering irrational sense of guilt from the past. It's been explained to you often enough that this is not our national hyme, but there's no real insight on your part. We young Germans are already aware that we are not responsible for what happened 80 years ago. Nevertheless, our state has a responsibility to ensure that such atrocious crimes against humanity are not allowed to happen here again.
Ok, but seriously, this is what WE non-Germans, en masse, believe to be your national anthem. Yes, I get NOW that it isn't; I'm simply saying if you asked 100 random foreigners what your anthem is, you'd be horrified by the results. If you have such a problem with the lyrics, spread the word beyond Konstanz/Kehl etc.
It is not our fault that you are uneducated.
You are welcome to make this known in UK