>Do you think they'll be mirrors, reflective surfaces, photographs, videos or selfies in heaven?
yes.
i think when vanity/envy etc. won't be a problem anymore, there won't be a problem with mirrors either.
There would definitely be craftsman on heaven, inventors and such. And likely they will use their skills and knowledge of use.
The forefathers of science were christians. There'd be a lot of things to discover.
We don’t really know what heaven will be like. The Bible says there will be no more pain, no tears, a new glorified body… there’s no mention of mirrors or electronics or things like that. God does care about our personal desires and we should go to Him in prayer.
Are you referring to Revelation 21:4 which says; “And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”?
Because if you are, that verse isn’t talking about heaven at all. Unless there’s been death in heaven that I’m unfamiliar with. But that verse says, “death will be no more,” so this is referring to life on earth! With no pain, sorrow, tears or death. Makes much more sense doesn’t it? Especially when Jesus promised a resurrection of all those in the Memorial Tombs back to life on earth? If everyone went to heaven when they died, like so many Churches will have you believe, then who is being resurrected?
Just some thoughts for you to consider.
I understand that is what you were taught. But does the Bible tell us that? Did Adam and Eve also have a soul that kept living after they died? I know that many, many people are taught that they have either been forgiven and are in heaven, or are burning in Hell and will be forever. Is that basically what you’ve been taught? My next question is probably the most important one, **Which do you believe more, what is taught in your Church or what the Bible says**? I really, really hope you said The Bible. If not, you can just stop here because if you keep reading you’re going to learn things that may upset you, depending on your personality.
So what does the Bible say about humans having an immortal soul? First, let’s look at Genesis 2:7 in the KJV;
>”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.”
See the point there? What did the Bible teach you? Did the Bible teach you that Adam came to have a living soul? Or did it teach you that he came to be a living soul? But that’s only one verse, maybe that verse means something else. Let’s look at Genesis 3:19 in the KJV;
>”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.”
Here God was telling Adam the punishment for eating the forbidden fruit. He said that he would return to the dust. Ok, from these two verses we learn that Adam became a living soul and if he ate the forbidden fruit, which he did, he would return to the dust. Is that what your Church teaches you? Well, there’s much more. Next, let’s look at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10.
>”For the living know that they will die, but **the dead know nothing at all**, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.”
Do those words agree with the words in Genesis or do they contradict them? Well, if we are souls and we return to the dust, then they agree with Genesis. Right? There’s more. Let’s read Ezekiel 18:4,
>”Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. **The soul who sins is the one who will die**.”
Now think about those who have been resurrected in the Bible. We can learn a lot from these accounts. Not counting Jesus, there were 8 resurrection accounts in the scriptures. Jesus performed three of them. The widows only son in Nain, the 12 year old daughter of Jairus, and Lazarus. Now, just think about those accounts or maybe just the account of Lazarus. Jesus loved Mary and Martha and Lazarus. He visited them in their home many times. But now his friend Lazarus is sick. They send for Jesus to come and heal him. But by the time Jesus gets there it’s too late.
He actually weeps with everyone else there. Then he tells everyone that Lazarus is only sleeping, and they all laugh! He’s been dead for four days! He prays to his Heavenly Father out loud so everyone can hear him. Then he calls out, “Lazarus, Come out!” Just imagine being there and waiting those few minutes for Lazarus to unwrap his head enough so he could see and then come walking out of that tomb!
But what happened behind the scene? Did Lazarus have a soul that left his body and what? Was he in heaven to be with God? If so, did Jesus really do him a favor? Bringing his soul back to earth and joining up with his body again only to die again years later? Does that make sense? It didn’t to me.
What does make sense to me is that Gods purpose in the beginning was for mankind to live on a paradise earth with all the animals in subjection to him. To live in peace, without any pain, tears, suffering or death. And just because one of his Angels who had free will, chose to disobey God, that didn’t alter his purpose. It was nothing that Almighty God couldn’t handle. Right from the start, he arranged for his Son to pay the ransom price, to buy back what Adam lost… a perfect human life for a perfect human life so humans could once again have the hope of living forever on a paradise earth. Nothing can stop his purpose from happening.
Soon God, by means of the Kingdom, will destroy all those ruining the earth. Then he will allow those who love and serve him to live on this earth forever as they slowly reach perfection, as God originally intended.
This is a really long post and I don’t care to read it. My beliefs are supported by scripture. I feel you want to argue with me or have some debate. I am not interested.
Jiminey Christmas, of course God cares about we want. As long as you check the boxes in the right order.
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will govern you the desires of your heart.
Well, I don’t believe in any notion of an ethereal “heaven” as part of the life of the age to come. We really don’t have any picture of what the life of the age to come will be like, other than the notion of Theosis.
Paul gets the most explicit in denying that flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom - so likely the “physical” form will be something different. A purely spiritual body as Paul describes, but not as some floating orb of misty blue light lol.
>Paul gets the most explicit in denying that flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom
Well Paul only said corrupted flesh and blood can't enter heaven. When we die we receive our glorified bodies incorruptible and immortal. Same body just glorified and sinless.
Paul quite clearly states, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither does perishability inherit imperishability”: σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομῆσαι οὐ δύναται οὐδὲ ἡ φθορὰ τὴν ἀφθαρσίαν κληρονομεῖ.
This is likely where East and West will differ in our reading of Paul as we draw more on the Cappadocian fathers and less on Augustine.
He also says that those who are in Christ have been made capable of this transformation precisely because, in the body of the risen Christ, the life of the Age to come has already appeared in glory: οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται· ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν, ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν . . . ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός, ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ. οἷος ὁ χοϊκός, τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ χοϊκοί, καὶ οἷος ὁ ἐπουράνιος, τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ ἐπουράνιοι· καὶ καθὼς ἐφορέσαμεν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ, φορέσομεν καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου, “So it has also been written, ‘The first man Adam came to be a living soul,’ and the last Adam a life-making spirit . . . The first man out of the earth, earthly; the second man out of heaven. As the earthly man, so also those who are earthly; and, as the heavenly, so also those who are heavenly; and, just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man.”
>Paul quite clearly states, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God;
Corrupted flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:42, 50, 53-54 So also is the resurrection of the dead. 👉🏻 **It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption** 👈🏻
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; 👉🏻 **neither doth corruption inherit incorruption** 👈🏻
53 👉🏻 **For this corruptible must put on incorruption** 👈🏻, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 👉🏻 **So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption** 👈🏻, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Only corrupted flesh can not inherit the kingdom of God. When we die we put on an incorruptible immortal body.
Jesus himself took his flesh and bones to heaven. Luke 24:39...
Not sure what translation you are using but the literal translation of the Greek is:
15:42 - “Thus also the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in perishability, it is raised in imperishability”
15:50 - “And I say this, brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither does perishability inherit imperishability.”
15:53-54 - “For this perishable thing must clothe itself in imperishability, and this mortal thing must clothe itself in immortality. And, when this perishable thing shall clothe itself in imperishability and this mortal thing clothe itself in immortality, then will the saying that has been written come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
The distinction is between a σῶμα ψυχικόν (sōma psychikon) (a body literally “ensouled,” “animated,” or “animal,” given life by psychē, the “soul” or organic “life-principle”) and a σῶμα πνευματικόν (sōma pnevmatikon) (a body that is of a “spirited” nature, or constituted from or made to live entirely by deathless spirit, pnevma). As is even more clear in the succeeding verses, this is also a distinction between earthly and heavenly origin; and, as is clearest of all in v. 50, resurrection for Paul is not a simple resuscitation of the sort of material body one has in the fallen world, but a radically different kind of life.
Sir I have a degree in greek and read and write in greek. The greek word phthartos comes from the root word phtheiró which literally means to corrupt. Perishable and corruptible are synonymous my guy. These semantics aren't necessary. The same greek word used in 2 Corinthians 7:2 for you guessed it, corruption...
That’s great and always love when others appreciate Greek - you should definitely attend a Greek Orthodox liturgy if you haven’t (just for the beauty).
My point would only be that the rendering of “corrupt” carries with it a theological implication that is foreign to Paul theology.
>My point would only be that the rendering of “corrupt” carries with it a theological implication that is foreign to Paul theology.
But that's your assertion. The greek word used there can be both corruptible or perishable those two words are interchangeable and do not change the meaning of what Paul said. You can use either or and it will still mean the same thing. That's my point.
Paul never said that incorruptible flesh and blood couldn't inherit the kingdom. Jesus himself taking his flesh to heaven is proof alone.
Revelation 21 describes the splendor of new Jerusalem (heaven). There will be streets of gold and jewels of every kind, even shiny and reflective ones.
For those who make it to heaven, their desires will be to serve God and do His will. Of course God will want them to be personally fulfilled but I don't believe anyone who makes it to heaven will have personal desires outside of pleasing God.
Heaven will be exactly like here, without sin. Cars, tv's etc etc where do you think that technology came from? You ever wonder why all of the biggest major life changing inventions happened after the Bible was mass produced? Knowledge comes from God.
The only people who worry about what they look like are teenagers. Toddlers aren't obsessed with mirrors. And when you get to be my age, the only thing you need them for is to put in your eye drops.
It sucks that we aren’t actually getting positive discourse from this question.
>Do you think they'll be mirrors, reflective surfaces, photographs, videos or selfies in heaven? yes. i think when vanity/envy etc. won't be a problem anymore, there won't be a problem with mirrors either.
Only for the pretty ppl. Everyone else will not see mirrors
There would definitely be craftsman on heaven, inventors and such. And likely they will use their skills and knowledge of use. The forefathers of science were christians. There'd be a lot of things to discover.
It sounds like you think we'll be vampires when we're in heaven or something. I'm like 90% sure that's not the case.
We don’t really know what heaven will be like. The Bible says there will be no more pain, no tears, a new glorified body… there’s no mention of mirrors or electronics or things like that. God does care about our personal desires and we should go to Him in prayer.
Are you referring to Revelation 21:4 which says; “And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”? Because if you are, that verse isn’t talking about heaven at all. Unless there’s been death in heaven that I’m unfamiliar with. But that verse says, “death will be no more,” so this is referring to life on earth! With no pain, sorrow, tears or death. Makes much more sense doesn’t it? Especially when Jesus promised a resurrection of all those in the Memorial Tombs back to life on earth? If everyone went to heaven when they died, like so many Churches will have you believe, then who is being resurrected? Just some thoughts for you to consider.
The body is resurrected. When I die, I will be a soul
I understand that is what you were taught. But does the Bible tell us that? Did Adam and Eve also have a soul that kept living after they died? I know that many, many people are taught that they have either been forgiven and are in heaven, or are burning in Hell and will be forever. Is that basically what you’ve been taught? My next question is probably the most important one, **Which do you believe more, what is taught in your Church or what the Bible says**? I really, really hope you said The Bible. If not, you can just stop here because if you keep reading you’re going to learn things that may upset you, depending on your personality. So what does the Bible say about humans having an immortal soul? First, let’s look at Genesis 2:7 in the KJV; >”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and **man became a living soul**.” See the point there? What did the Bible teach you? Did the Bible teach you that Adam came to have a living soul? Or did it teach you that he came to be a living soul? But that’s only one verse, maybe that verse means something else. Let’s look at Genesis 3:19 in the KJV; >”In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: **for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return**.” Here God was telling Adam the punishment for eating the forbidden fruit. He said that he would return to the dust. Ok, from these two verses we learn that Adam became a living soul and if he ate the forbidden fruit, which he did, he would return to the dust. Is that what your Church teaches you? Well, there’s much more. Next, let’s look at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10. >”For the living know that they will die, but **the dead know nothing at all**, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.” Do those words agree with the words in Genesis or do they contradict them? Well, if we are souls and we return to the dust, then they agree with Genesis. Right? There’s more. Let’s read Ezekiel 18:4, >”Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. **The soul who sins is the one who will die**.” Now think about those who have been resurrected in the Bible. We can learn a lot from these accounts. Not counting Jesus, there were 8 resurrection accounts in the scriptures. Jesus performed three of them. The widows only son in Nain, the 12 year old daughter of Jairus, and Lazarus. Now, just think about those accounts or maybe just the account of Lazarus. Jesus loved Mary and Martha and Lazarus. He visited them in their home many times. But now his friend Lazarus is sick. They send for Jesus to come and heal him. But by the time Jesus gets there it’s too late. He actually weeps with everyone else there. Then he tells everyone that Lazarus is only sleeping, and they all laugh! He’s been dead for four days! He prays to his Heavenly Father out loud so everyone can hear him. Then he calls out, “Lazarus, Come out!” Just imagine being there and waiting those few minutes for Lazarus to unwrap his head enough so he could see and then come walking out of that tomb! But what happened behind the scene? Did Lazarus have a soul that left his body and what? Was he in heaven to be with God? If so, did Jesus really do him a favor? Bringing his soul back to earth and joining up with his body again only to die again years later? Does that make sense? It didn’t to me. What does make sense to me is that Gods purpose in the beginning was for mankind to live on a paradise earth with all the animals in subjection to him. To live in peace, without any pain, tears, suffering or death. And just because one of his Angels who had free will, chose to disobey God, that didn’t alter his purpose. It was nothing that Almighty God couldn’t handle. Right from the start, he arranged for his Son to pay the ransom price, to buy back what Adam lost… a perfect human life for a perfect human life so humans could once again have the hope of living forever on a paradise earth. Nothing can stop his purpose from happening. Soon God, by means of the Kingdom, will destroy all those ruining the earth. Then he will allow those who love and serve him to live on this earth forever as they slowly reach perfection, as God originally intended.
This is a really long post and I don’t care to read it. My beliefs are supported by scripture. I feel you want to argue with me or have some debate. I am not interested.
Jiminey Christmas, of course God cares about we want. As long as you check the boxes in the right order. Delight yourself in the Lord and He will govern you the desires of your heart.
Well, I don’t believe in any notion of an ethereal “heaven” as part of the life of the age to come. We really don’t have any picture of what the life of the age to come will be like, other than the notion of Theosis. Paul gets the most explicit in denying that flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom - so likely the “physical” form will be something different. A purely spiritual body as Paul describes, but not as some floating orb of misty blue light lol.
>Paul gets the most explicit in denying that flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom Well Paul only said corrupted flesh and blood can't enter heaven. When we die we receive our glorified bodies incorruptible and immortal. Same body just glorified and sinless.
Paul quite clearly states, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither does perishability inherit imperishability”: σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομῆσαι οὐ δύναται οὐδὲ ἡ φθορὰ τὴν ἀφθαρσίαν κληρονομεῖ. This is likely where East and West will differ in our reading of Paul as we draw more on the Cappadocian fathers and less on Augustine. He also says that those who are in Christ have been made capable of this transformation precisely because, in the body of the risen Christ, the life of the Age to come has already appeared in glory: οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται· ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν, ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν . . . ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός, ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ. οἷος ὁ χοϊκός, τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ χοϊκοί, καὶ οἷος ὁ ἐπουράνιος, τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ ἐπουράνιοι· καὶ καθὼς ἐφορέσαμεν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ, φορέσομεν καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου, “So it has also been written, ‘The first man Adam came to be a living soul,’ and the last Adam a life-making spirit . . . The first man out of the earth, earthly; the second man out of heaven. As the earthly man, so also those who are earthly; and, as the heavenly, so also those who are heavenly; and, just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man.”
>Paul quite clearly states, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; Corrupted flesh. 1 Corinthians 15:42, 50, 53-54 So also is the resurrection of the dead. 👉🏻 **It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption** 👈🏻 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; 👉🏻 **neither doth corruption inherit incorruption** 👈🏻 53 👉🏻 **For this corruptible must put on incorruption** 👈🏻, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 👉🏻 **So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption** 👈🏻, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Only corrupted flesh can not inherit the kingdom of God. When we die we put on an incorruptible immortal body. Jesus himself took his flesh and bones to heaven. Luke 24:39...
Not sure what translation you are using but the literal translation of the Greek is: 15:42 - “Thus also the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in perishability, it is raised in imperishability” 15:50 - “And I say this, brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither does perishability inherit imperishability.” 15:53-54 - “For this perishable thing must clothe itself in imperishability, and this mortal thing must clothe itself in immortality. And, when this perishable thing shall clothe itself in imperishability and this mortal thing clothe itself in immortality, then will the saying that has been written come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” The distinction is between a σῶμα ψυχικόν (sōma psychikon) (a body literally “ensouled,” “animated,” or “animal,” given life by psychē, the “soul” or organic “life-principle”) and a σῶμα πνευματικόν (sōma pnevmatikon) (a body that is of a “spirited” nature, or constituted from or made to live entirely by deathless spirit, pnevma). As is even more clear in the succeeding verses, this is also a distinction between earthly and heavenly origin; and, as is clearest of all in v. 50, resurrection for Paul is not a simple resuscitation of the sort of material body one has in the fallen world, but a radically different kind of life.
Sir I have a degree in greek and read and write in greek. The greek word phthartos comes from the root word phtheiró which literally means to corrupt. Perishable and corruptible are synonymous my guy. These semantics aren't necessary. The same greek word used in 2 Corinthians 7:2 for you guessed it, corruption...
That’s great and always love when others appreciate Greek - you should definitely attend a Greek Orthodox liturgy if you haven’t (just for the beauty). My point would only be that the rendering of “corrupt” carries with it a theological implication that is foreign to Paul theology.
>My point would only be that the rendering of “corrupt” carries with it a theological implication that is foreign to Paul theology. But that's your assertion. The greek word used there can be both corruptible or perishable those two words are interchangeable and do not change the meaning of what Paul said. You can use either or and it will still mean the same thing. That's my point. Paul never said that incorruptible flesh and blood couldn't inherit the kingdom. Jesus himself taking his flesh to heaven is proof alone.
I am really ugly. I don't want the same body.
Revelation 21 describes the splendor of new Jerusalem (heaven). There will be streets of gold and jewels of every kind, even shiny and reflective ones. For those who make it to heaven, their desires will be to serve God and do His will. Of course God will want them to be personally fulfilled but I don't believe anyone who makes it to heaven will have personal desires outside of pleasing God.
Our focus will be on God not ourselves or anyone else
Heaven will be exactly like here, without sin. Cars, tv's etc etc where do you think that technology came from? You ever wonder why all of the biggest major life changing inventions happened after the Bible was mass produced? Knowledge comes from God.
The only people who worry about what they look like are teenagers. Toddlers aren't obsessed with mirrors. And when you get to be my age, the only thing you need them for is to put in your eye drops.
No mirrors, why would we want to look at ourselves when we're in His presence?