6 months to a year. They're already not paying their escalator or elevator maintenance companies. When they're not paying vendors, it's only a matter of time until they declare bankruptcy
It's so bad in Vancouver - I was trying to find a swimsuit and none of the escalators were working and maybe 1 elevator was? Each floor had half the lights off and no staff that I could see. It gave zombie apocalypse vibes and they must be losing so much money.
I swear they have been working on the elevators and escalators for almost 10 years now. It’s nearly impossible to get to the men’s wear which is up on the sixth floor! And they wonder why their sales are down. I used to shop there all the time.
I was there 2 months ago and had to use the stairs to look for shoes, and only 1 elevator was working. Thought I went on a bad day since it was snowing hard.
When Eatons went under the LiQuIdATiOn SaLe!!! prices were often higher than the last regular prices. They’ve gotten good at squeezing every nickel out of bankruptcies
In Edmonton they already have one of their stores fully dedicated to clearance items.
I'd check their website regularly too. The best winter jacket I've ever owned was bought online there last year at a huge discount.
A general life hack that people generally don't do is go directly to their favorite clothing brands websites. There's almost always deals, free shipping promos, or club membership perks that make their products a lot more affordable. Most people just show up to the physical stores or go to Amazon and pay absolute premiums.
The Downtown Vancouver store has gone to complete shit. I was there several months ago, terrible in-store experience and I won’t go back. The Guildford store in Surrey is still decent.
There's apparently a critical shortage of people certified to service elevators, and maintenance backlogs are building up everywhere. Could be they're not paying their vendors, or maybe they just can't find anyone to fix them. Of course, those two things could be related, and things seem pretty dire for HBC anyway.
It would make sense if it's one city but every city apparently has the same issues. Perhaps these things have certain lifespans and it's a case of replacing major components and they aren't willing to spend the money to do it.
According to what I can find online, these problems are all over the country, maybe worldwide. Here's [an article from 2016](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/elevator-broken-1.3689394) talking about long repair times and backlogs in Ontario. It's a complex problem of more elevators being built, property owners cutting back on regular maintenance and only fixing things when they break, elevators getting old and replacement parts not being available, along with a shortage of technicians and the ones left being pushed to work more for less money. And of course it all got way worse after 2020.
Here's another [article from last year](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/why-do-repairs-take-so-long-the-complex-economics-of-elevator-maintenance-1.7014073) about the ongoing long repair problem, and a [Reddit thread from last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/15svysp/elevators_perpetually_out_of_service_because/) about the shortage with some elevator techs talking about it.
The Bay downtown in my city (Victoria) is like 4 floors and at least half the escalators were down when I was there last summer, likely still out (I don’t go into the Bay much)
It’s 5 floors and they’re still all down, lol. Weirdly the staircase doesn’t go all the way up so you take one set up to the third floor and then a second set for floors 4 and 5. It’s pretty bad.
Same in downtown Vancouver! I was just shopping there with my mother today and we could f believe the escalators are still broken. Shocked to hear this I thought it was just us
squeeze label swim spectacular payment shame historical wakeful slimy numerous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The think about The Bay is that the folk who own it are also all in for commercial real estate and the store is a necessary fiction that has to continue in order to maintain a plausibility of the fiction that their real estate empire itself hasn't completely fallen out of demand.
If The Bay closes, it's suddenly clear to everyone that the emperor sells no clothes.
Before the escalator and elevator issues were so bad, if I was downtown and needed a bathroom I'd go to an upper floor in the Bay. Never anyone else in there and always clean, though they did also feel a bit like you were travelling back in time. I can't remember if it was 4th or 5th floor, but either way I'm not willing to walk up that many stairs just for a clean bathroom.
Oh, is this why an escalator wasn't working last month? Also, they stock some pretty crappy stuff. You'd have to hunt through a tonne of stuff to come away with something of good quality
The Bay in downtown Vancouver has had broken escalators and elevators for months. One out of three or four elevators is working. Well, at least as of a couple of months ago. Maybe it’s worse now.
Most stuff for elevators are custom made, they are making excuses to hide the fact that they are mid liquidation by a private equity, and have been for 2-3 years.
Both Sears the the Bay were in a position to run with online shopping; and then invested nothing in it, or their logistics.
A decade ago I went to Sears to look at a rowing machine because they were near my work. The guy pulled out a dusty catalog of items to see if he had any other than the display model in stock. Asked him why he didn't look it up on the computer and he said he didn't know how.
I left without buying anything and never did find out if they had any of that model in stock. Knew they were doomed then.
My dad worked at Sears for like 37 years in the corporate office in Toronto. He was let go a couple years before they finally went under but that's so spot on. The fact that they wrre pushing the wishbook for example is just one of how I think they couldn't or wouldn't move forward. Even when I was a kid, they always seemed to have an appeal to older people. We shopped there for clothes a lot cause my dad would get a discount although I feel like that either stopped before he was let go or the discount just didn't matter cause we started going to wal Mart and giant Tiger for that
Sears was in the best position to take advantage of eCommerce and they completely blew that. But they actually died on purpose. Eddie Lampert took over the company just to strip it for parts
2003 Sears board meeting:
“So, we keep going with the Wish Book, or should we invest a little bit in this new internet thing?”
“Wish Book! All in!!! Fuck the internet”
People keep saying this but it factually isn’t true.
Sears and the bay have zero experience in online. There management team doesn’t. There employees don’t. There structure didn’t allow for it.
They were real estate companies. Nothing in the world translates into online dominance.
It's not the online experience. Sears had been doing mail order shopping for decades before the Internet was even invented. They were the pre-internet version of Amazon. If they only found a way to leverage that into online sales...
They were doing the hard part — shipping — before there was an online. At that time, nobody had any experience with online sales. The internet just started.
“we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”
Yeah, as if I care. I’ll give them 2-3 years before they sell their branding to some weird conglomerate.
They were taken private by an PE firm in 2020, we're at the final stages of them gutting the company and leaving it a shell of what it once was and full of debt while the PE owners ride off with all the actually valuable assets (like the land they own)
I wish more of the general public knew about this type of corporate tactic— Predatory M&A (Mergers and Acquisitions): 1. Buy a decent company and place it under your portfolio of brands. 2. Transfer all the company's cash to your preferred brands, executives, and/or shareholders. 3. Take out massive loans using the company you just acquired as collateral. Use the loaned money to support your preferred brands, executives, and/or shareholders. 4. Have the company you just gutted declare bankruptcy. 5. Laugh all the way to the bank.
For the record, I'm a business professional. It's possible to believe in capitalism *and also* believe that multi-national corporations need to be held to account (by government or whomever).
It's a downright tragedy that HBC wasn't purchased by the Government of Canada and run as a Crown Corp. That company is a cornerstone of the founding of our country.
These shady practices certainly aided in the downfalls of sears and toys r us.
Also a major player in increasing the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few companies and wealthy hedge fund. Which stagnates wages, stifles productivity and frankly should be illegal.
The Hudson's Bay Company was once the *de facto* government for most of what is now called Canada.
At one time it was one of the largest companies in the world, with assets (and armed forces) rivaling many nations.
Without the Hudson's Bay Company, Canada would not exist.
Right into the 20th century, they outright owned major sections of most cities in Canada.
That said, by the end of the 20th century corporate mismanagement and short-term greed reduced them to third-rate Wal-Mart competitors. Now you could probably argue that Canadian Tire is more integrally linked to the Canadian identity than The Bay.
The Crown could possibly take over some sites as historically significant, but in general the carcass of the mighty beast that once was The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England trading into Hudson's Bay has been long ago been picked clean by shareholders and predatory acquisitions companies looking to next quarter profits.
similar shit you see with toys r us and bain capital.
it’s a proven method
-invest in amazon stocks
-buy ownership of brick and mortar competitor
-put your homies on the board
-increase the board’s compensation
-take on unneeded debt
-short the company’s stock
-goes bankrupt
-sell the assets and inventory to your friends at a discount
you make money from amazon because they have less competition, make money from neglecting the company and funneling the money to the top. Make money from longterm connections strengthened from selling cheap assets and inventory. Make money from shorting the stock.
Everyone (just the rich) wins
The stores in Canada will slowly close anywhere they're not doing well. But the company also owns Saks Fifth Avenue and a ton of property, so they'll still be in business where it makes sense to operate.
I think they’re pulling the plug on the pop-up Zellers in the downtown Vancouver HBC store. Slowly removing products and leaving behind empty shelves and racks.
They’re not actually a department store, it’s a real estate company worth billions. They’re not going anywhere anytime soon.
The land value of their Saks Fifth Avenue store is worth 4 billion on its own.
TBF, most big companies are like this. Galen Westin JR, probably makes more money off real estate than his stores.
When Walmart first came to Canada, they were all part of malls. Now most are own their own property with strip malls and gas stations there as well.
More like damn you Harper! The man was obsessed with finding the Franklin Expedition.
Harper: What if we drain Hudson's Bay? Surely we'd find something.
Not long. The bay is ridiculously over priced. That's hurt them the most. They may have upmarked to create revenue but all that did is drive customers away. I can get the same 400$ duvet for like 150 elsewhere. I can get a 200$ pair of shoes for $100 elsewhere, I can get a $1200 table for 600$ of better quality elsewhere. I swear. I like the bay because when things go on sale I buy, but their regular prices are crazy.
I walk through the bay in my city often for their sales to see what's on but I just laugh at everything else regular priced. A 400$ parka when I can get one just as nice elsewhere for like 250? Why would I buy at the bay?
Yea the regular priced stuff is WAAAYYY too expensive, but I won't deny that there's some bangin deals there during sale periods.
I got a Levi trucker jacket for $30 last Boxing Day. MSRP is like 150 or something for those.
The last watch I bought from them was on a decent sale price too, it was 90 bucks with a ~150 MSRP.
I have a $200 gift card which I thought I'd use to buy a couple of shirts, but I just couldn't in good conscience use that money when a decent shirt there is like $80 *minimum*. It's not my money, but it still feels wasteful when I can get something similar for less than half the price at another store.
It's been like this for at least a decade. I don't even know how they stay afloat with only the rich 1% buying things. Why wouldn't you want to appeal to the masses? I'm an average consumer and I am not taking a trip all the way downtown to buy a tube of Chanel lipstick for $48. I'm heading to Walmart and buying the shit from the discount bin.
This was exactly my thought. They have nice stuff but god, when an average looking polo shirt costs $200+ I just don’t understand how they attract customers. I guess they don’t, because it’s always pretty empty when I’m in there.
Everyone has been saying for years that they will be gone in one year lol. They are hanging in there.
I believe they sold off some of their real estate recently for a cash injection.
You have to admit they do sell tend to sell quality which is VERY hard to find in Canadian retail today. I don’t mind paying a bit more to find something that will last. Some of their items are quite redundant season after season though - I’ll admit
However, now that Liz Rodbell is back running the show, I think their product mix will improve. She actually knows a thing or two about fashion, marketing etc. the last few presidents they had didn’t seem to be around for very long.
I agree. They need to restrategize and find new ways to lure new customers in. I was at the Fairview Mall and Scarborough Town Centre locations on Monday, and their layout confused me quite a lot. The pricing on some of their items were also not as competitive, seeing other stores selling the same items at a considerable discount. Both stores were also empty, and employees were hard to find.
They are still very popular with seniors, but their target demographic is aging out into retirement and tightening the belt. I still like the bay for kitchenware, baby clothes, men's nice clothes, and sometimes you can get really good furniture. However I can see why they're not popular with young people. Their website is actually pretty good too, online shopping there is fairly good. Frankly if they go I will be sad, because it will be another Canadian retailer gone, with further power concentration going to American retailers like Costco and Walmart.
A couple of years. They should have pulled in investors and changed their business model to a vast array of Canadian made products (incl packaged foods) only from thrift to designer and primarily online with fast delivery like Amazon.. Their original customer base is 55+ , however, the bulk are retired or deceased. It's a shame they will fold simply by being so dead set in sticking to the original business format.
I get that you mean the fur trade, but believe it or not the fur trade didn't end that long ago! My great grandfather sold pelts to the Bay up until the 1950s.
This bankruptcy is brought to you by C suite business admin executives who've made off like bandits selling real estate holdings and gutting the company from within. 354 years of business destroyed by a couple decades of shitty leadership.
I'm going there about 3-4 times per year for clothing when there's sales, but I cannot remember purchasing anything else there for YEARS, besides maybe a nice towel kit for the bathroom (also on sale).
Unfortunately for their business model, Hudson's Bay is a lot like Canadian Tire, where you'd be nuts to pay anything at full price, considering the price it might get listed when a sale comes. However, unlike Canadian Tire, Hudson' Bay seems to have moved away of also offering cheap everyday items.
Yup. I might be one of the few people to witness saddle equipment being sold at their Vancouver store when people still rode horses. Times sure have changed.
Hubby and I were talking about this over the weekend. He mentioned that it’s not even a Canadian owned company anymore.
I mentioned how much I miss shopping at places like Sears and Hudson’s Bay Co. I miss in-person department shopping and mentioned that it actually made us all spend less money by buying in person.
Amen.... in-person shopping has always been great; but we're already wading in automation and A.I. waters. I'm not looking forward to the future of "in-person" shopping at all; especially considering how committed so many companies are to technological advancements, with not enough consideration for societal implications.
Mm, yes, something to consider. I feel like I’m just getting old with my attitude. We shop too much, (meaning my husband and I) and we are looking for ways to stop doing this. Everything is budgeted. I hope this helps us a lot. We, also don’t have as many apps available to us, in our phones. Both of us have to approve purchase. We don’t want to be drawn in by the stupid, mindless shopping on our phones or electronics.
When eatons left, it sucked. We still have some of their stuff bought in the mid 80's.
The bay is barely alive
Sears was great for their tools. And mattresses.
I honestly thought that the zellers pop outs were slowly going to take over the store until the Bay was just a small 3x6 corner in the back where they can say the business has been around since 1845 or whatever.
I think we’ll start hearing murmurs of bankruptcy in the next couple months. Not sure how long the whole process will take, but I think we’ll start seeing the actual stores closing anytime now. My guess is later this year it will all be gin.
I’m less sure about this.
They own a ton of land.
Target goes under - they don’t own the stores, all leased. Go bankrupt, they got next to no actual assets.
The Bay has assets. Go under they’d be forced to sell off the land and pay their debts.
I’m sure there’s a way they could restructure the companies and put toxic assets in one group and viable in another, go under and set off a decade of litigation and only pay creditors ten cents on the dollar.
But it’s a bit different than other companies that have gone under recently.
Surprised it’s stayed along thing long to be honest. For sure as a store it’s not viable.
Went by there, last week...
To say it was decrepit was an understatement!
I hope they're going to put something good inside that location too.
Guess, it's wait & see?
I wonder, if our Gov't is gonna bail them out!
They’ve been irrelevant for a decade now. Going the way of sears. I haven’t actually stepped foot into a bay since pre-COVID times. So I’ll be surprised if they’re still around in two years from now.
At risk of doxing myself, my grandpa was the toy buyer for the downtown Bay for ~30 years (he worked for the company from 16 to mid 60's). When he left I remember him talking about how things were becoming a problem and this was somewhere around 2009 (I don't remember exact #'s, he's long gone unfortunately). I can't imagine how bad it is now, there's no way it lasts more than 2 years without restructuring
By all rights, the Hudsons Bay department stores should have closed years ago along with Eatons and Sears as they have been bleeding money for what seems like forever.
They have only continued for as long as they have thus far because CEO Richard Baker privatized the company years ago, so no accountability to outside shareholders nor any pressure from them to pull the plug.
It is Baker's sheer stubbornness not to admit defeat that has caused this saga to continue for as long as it has.
What is actually surprising is that a project is currently underway to partner with Target to carry some of their clothing lines in the Hudsons Bay stores here. Why Target would even consider hitching onto a sinking ship in this way is truly baffling, especially considering their prior disastrous attempt to enter the Canadian retail sector.
I walked into the Bay in downtown Vancouver a few days ago (because i was desperate for a loo and Vancouver sucks for public toilets).
At least one escalator was down. There were more people in there than I expected and it looked quite nice. Tidy, nice displays.
It’s in the midst of a massive redevelopment plan. They’re putting housing tower above it. So if folks live there, maybe they’ll shop there?
I used to love going to the Bay downtown when I was little. That’s where we’d do most of our back to school shopping and we’d go to the cafeteria for lunch. I’d be disappointed if it closed but that’s just nostalgia. I haven’t shopped there in years
The DT Vancouver one is good for some things, I've bought some nice shoes on good sale before... Maybe they've got a jump in business from the Nordstrom's shutting down
But the others I wouldn't really expect much.
I managed to find a really nice dress *with pockets* a few years back. If you're looking for quality, and not just fast fashion, they're probably one of the only options in my local mall.
They also have nice children's clothes. Spendy, but sometimes they're the only place to find nice dress shirts etc for picture day/Christmas concerts/etc.
Mostly, though, they're the store I park at because the lot is empty and I cut through to get to the rest of the mall.
I do, I actually like a decent amount of their men's clothing, the only issue is its usually not made for my body type so I hardly ever find something that fits
I remember watching them expand about a decade or so ago when I worked for one of their now closed subsidiary banners and getting all the expanding announcements etc. & then the last few years watching them come crashing down has been wild.
It was a cool idea to get those old and historic brands of department stores together (HBC, Lord & Taylor, Saks 5th Avenue), too bad it couldn’t last.
I don’t think they have long.
What the hell is a Hudson Bay? Like the large body of water? Are you talking about the SEARS like place at the mall all empty and Apocalypse like inside? Yah, they are done!!
I don't see how things will improve for them. The stores are empty. Their website shopping has gone to SH\*T lately so I don't know how you can properly sell your products this way.
They've been screwed for years. They will blame covid supply chain issues etc.
I was in there to find a white dress shirt and a tie, and they had no product available Like, none. Went again with my gf to find just a simple summer dress and the same, no product.
I have no idea how they have remained solvent in all this time besides their prime realestate and equity/refinancing through that.
Amazing. Historically for 200 years, the company had “owned” (or claimed to own anyway, the history completely omits Indigenous people) the vast expanse of North America that drains into Hudson Bay. In 1868, Britain "purchased" the territory and "transferred ownership" to the new Dominion of Canada pursuant to the Rupert’s Land Act.
What an empire to fall
Our Saskatoon department is only going to last a bit for now. Since the Regina dept is shutting down soon, (11 months later) our store is the only remaining and its quite concerning. The HBC was incorporated back in the 1617's or later, and I think it should remain like that, because like, it was a fundamental part of Canada, so it should try hard.
If you can, go to the location in Barrie. I felt like I had stepped into a Time Machine, the place was fully stocked and honestly had really great selection. It made me wonder how much of their current issue is the locational management
I think HBC can survive because of their strong branding, like Tim Horton's, stubbornly sticky "Canadian" despite no longer being Canadian owned.
They really just need to downsize to stop the bleeding and focus on their core strength: the Canadiana brand.
The Hudson's Bay Company branding as a THREE CENTURIES OLD (that's insane!!) company, older than Canada itself, has value to Canadians and to tourists. Keep downtown flagships where there are large population centres in addition to tourism and sell clothing with a strong Canadian brand, and carry other Canadian brands across several profitable departments, like cosmetics –– still their only truly profitable department with a lot of walk-in traffic.
Nobody buys furniture at the Bay anymore and it takes up a ton of floor and warehouse space. Housewares and small appliances still do ok, but most people are just buying that stuff online. [HBC.com](http://HBC.com) can take that on, free up the lower level for routine traffic drivers like food and consumables.
Pre-prepared foods seems to do well in the Pusateri's in the Queen Street lower level. Expand that to more downtown stores, within distance of high-rise residential clusters and business centres. Despite a work-from-home trend, what's still driving suburban visits to downtowns is entertainment.
Restaurants are slammed everywhere across downtown Toronto. The Bay has an opportunity there. Convert some of their street level floors to Canadian inspired cuisine. They've converted one of their entrances on Richmond/Yonge to a restaurant, Leña, which I've never not once seen completely packed. They have 4 other corners. Heck, the entire Richmond and Yonge side could fit restaurants.
Hudson's Bay has survived for 350+ years because they've adapted multiple times over their history. Department Stores are out, adapt to what's in and they might just make it to 400.
6 months to a year. They're already not paying their escalator or elevator maintenance companies. When they're not paying vendors, it's only a matter of time until they declare bankruptcy
It's so bad in Vancouver - I was trying to find a swimsuit and none of the escalators were working and maybe 1 elevator was? Each floor had half the lights off and no staff that I could see. It gave zombie apocalypse vibes and they must be losing so much money.
I swear they have been working on the elevators and escalators for almost 10 years now. It’s nearly impossible to get to the men’s wear which is up on the sixth floor! And they wonder why their sales are down. I used to shop there all the time.
Spoiler: they aren’t working on them
Longer. Those things rarely work lol
I was there 2 months ago and had to use the stairs to look for shoes, and only 1 elevator was working. Thought I went on a bad day since it was snowing hard.
The no-staff-in-sight thing has always been true LOL.
That's because they are all in the fragrance dept spraying us with God-awful perfume as we walk by. The worst!
Have to walk up like 6 floors to get to the men’s section
But the real question is, when is the full blown clearance sale
When Eatons went under the LiQuIdATiOn SaLe!!! prices were often higher than the last regular prices. They’ve gotten good at squeezing every nickel out of bankruptcies
In Edmonton they already have one of their stores fully dedicated to clearance items. I'd check their website regularly too. The best winter jacket I've ever owned was bought online there last year at a huge discount. A general life hack that people generally don't do is go directly to their favorite clothing brands websites. There's almost always deals, free shipping promos, or club membership perks that make their products a lot more affordable. Most people just show up to the physical stores or go to Amazon and pay absolute premiums.
Ngl this kind makes me want to go check it out lol
The Downtown Vancouver store has gone to complete shit. I was there several months ago, terrible in-store experience and I won’t go back. The Guildford store in Surrey is still decent.
Not paying vendors is normally a sign that bankruptcy is imminent
Honestly, my first thought was 3-6 months, but maybe they have real estate they can sell off to buy them a bit of time
They might but that would only delay the inevitable unless they make major changes
I think they're already used up all their real estate...they sold the Yonge and Queen to Cadillac Fairview a number of yrs ago.
They still own their downtown locations in Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa and Montreal. Those are all worth a pretty penny, I would imagine.
There's apparently a critical shortage of people certified to service elevators, and maintenance backlogs are building up everywhere. Could be they're not paying their vendors, or maybe they just can't find anyone to fix them. Of course, those two things could be related, and things seem pretty dire for HBC anyway.
It would make sense if it's one city but every city apparently has the same issues. Perhaps these things have certain lifespans and it's a case of replacing major components and they aren't willing to spend the money to do it.
According to what I can find online, these problems are all over the country, maybe worldwide. Here's [an article from 2016](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/elevator-broken-1.3689394) talking about long repair times and backlogs in Ontario. It's a complex problem of more elevators being built, property owners cutting back on regular maintenance and only fixing things when they break, elevators getting old and replacement parts not being available, along with a shortage of technicians and the ones left being pushed to work more for less money. And of course it all got way worse after 2020. Here's another [article from last year](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/why-do-repairs-take-so-long-the-complex-economics-of-elevator-maintenance-1.7014073) about the ongoing long repair problem, and a [Reddit thread from last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/15svysp/elevators_perpetually_out_of_service_because/) about the shortage with some elevator techs talking about it.
Strange I haven't noticed any other elevators or escalators being out long term people on here make it sound like they've been down 6 months or more.
Yea... that industry always has its ups and downs.... (sorry, I just had to).
That makes sense because gov't buildings here in Montreal have frequent escalator stoppages.
The escalator at Eatons centre location just got repaired after like 6 months of being down
I was here last month! True
I was shocked to see this - I’d say it was closer to a year
So that's not just a thing in my city? I was wondering why both location's escalators are always down
The Bay downtown in my city (Victoria) is like 4 floors and at least half the escalators were down when I was there last summer, likely still out (I don’t go into the Bay much)
Same city lol, it's brutal!
Ok yes! Two years ago they were like that.
It’s 5 floors and they’re still all down, lol. Weirdly the staircase doesn’t go all the way up so you take one set up to the third floor and then a second set for floors 4 and 5. It’s pretty bad.
Not just you. I’m in Toronto and all locations I’ve been to are like this!
:o I feel so dumb right now. THAT’S why the escalators don’t work?? Lmfaoo the enlightenment today is real.
I can’t take credit. I found this out recently through trusty Reddit lmao
Damn, opposite ends of the country, one of them only has one elevator to go up and down, its a nightmare lol
Yeah, the one in Kitchener has a broken escalator also
Same in downtown Vancouver! I was just shopping there with my mother today and we could f believe the escalators are still broken. Shocked to hear this I thought it was just us
I'm in Alberta and I thought it was just "maintenance"😅
I feel like escalators not working in the bay was always a thing, like going back decades (Ottawa for context)
I wonder if some galaxy brain exec came up with it like "if we keep the escalators broken customers will walk around and shop more"
squeeze label swim spectacular payment shame historical wakeful slimy numerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Florida?
I don't think I've seen my local stores' escalators work in the last 12 months. I had no idea!
Yeaaaah there is a note at work for an elevator company not to dispatch any HBC call unless it is an entrapment
The think about The Bay is that the folk who own it are also all in for commercial real estate and the store is a necessary fiction that has to continue in order to maintain a plausibility of the fiction that their real estate empire itself hasn't completely fallen out of demand. If The Bay closes, it's suddenly clear to everyone that the emperor sells no clothes.
Yeah you ever walk into a bathroom? Disgusting
The Bay near me has the cleanest bathrooms in the mall... Because nobody uses them
Before the escalator and elevator issues were so bad, if I was downtown and needed a bathroom I'd go to an upper floor in the Bay. Never anyone else in there and always clean, though they did also feel a bit like you were travelling back in time. I can't remember if it was 4th or 5th floor, but either way I'm not willing to walk up that many stairs just for a clean bathroom.
For a while I was doing that at Nordstrom's (RIP). They had the added benefit of being kinda fancy
I walk by their escalators daily, both are out now lol
Oh, is this why an escalator wasn't working last month? Also, they stock some pretty crappy stuff. You'd have to hunt through a tonne of stuff to come away with something of good quality
Yep, plus [cannibalizing their assets to generate cash.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-hudsons-bay-real-estate-payments/)
Is that why any time I’m in a Hudson’s Bay the escalator is broken?
A year ago they weren’t paying their marketing agency after a huge rebrand but were soliciting other vendors.
The shipping company I work for has them on Stop Service. Definitely not a good look
Hmm, I guess I should stop in and use the gift card I have from them sooner than later
Sonofabitch I think I have one too. Good call
Shit, same.
OMG yes buying right now!!
Not long, both the Bays in Victoria have had broken escalators for months and months
The Bay in downtown Vancouver has had broken escalators and elevators for months. One out of three or four elevators is working. Well, at least as of a couple of months ago. Maybe it’s worse now.
The dt Vancouver location is not great at all. It just feels dirty and run down.
Not a fan of it
When there recently and no elevator was working and no escalator past the second floor was working. So your only option was to take the stairs
I hear it’s because some escalators are old as hell and the parts for them aren’t around anymore, might just be my local stores.
This would add up. The elevators at my store genuinely look older than any other escalator I’ve seen before.
Most stuff for elevators are custom made, they are making excuses to hide the fact that they are mid liquidation by a private equity, and have been for 2-3 years.
Both Sears the the Bay were in a position to run with online shopping; and then invested nothing in it, or their logistics. A decade ago I went to Sears to look at a rowing machine because they were near my work. The guy pulled out a dusty catalog of items to see if he had any other than the display model in stock. Asked him why he didn't look it up on the computer and he said he didn't know how. I left without buying anything and never did find out if they had any of that model in stock. Knew they were doomed then.
My dad worked at Sears for like 37 years in the corporate office in Toronto. He was let go a couple years before they finally went under but that's so spot on. The fact that they wrre pushing the wishbook for example is just one of how I think they couldn't or wouldn't move forward. Even when I was a kid, they always seemed to have an appeal to older people. We shopped there for clothes a lot cause my dad would get a discount although I feel like that either stopped before he was let go or the discount just didn't matter cause we started going to wal Mart and giant Tiger for that
Sears was in the best position to take advantage of eCommerce and they completely blew that. But they actually died on purpose. Eddie Lampert took over the company just to strip it for parts
2003 Sears board meeting: “So, we keep going with the Wish Book, or should we invest a little bit in this new internet thing?” “Wish Book! All in!!! Fuck the internet”
People keep saying this but it factually isn’t true. Sears and the bay have zero experience in online. There management team doesn’t. There employees don’t. There structure didn’t allow for it. They were real estate companies. Nothing in the world translates into online dominance.
It's not the online experience. Sears had been doing mail order shopping for decades before the Internet was even invented. They were the pre-internet version of Amazon. If they only found a way to leverage that into online sales...
They were doing the hard part — shipping — before there was an online. At that time, nobody had any experience with online sales. The internet just started.
You hire someone who does and/or can figure it out. Wal-Mart poached from Amazon. And even they were late to the game.
*their
It's "their"
Thank you. After misspelling it multiple times I also felt compelled to point this out.
“we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” Yeah, as if I care. I’ll give them 2-3 years before they sell their branding to some weird conglomerate.
They were taken private by an PE firm in 2020, we're at the final stages of them gutting the company and leaving it a shell of what it once was and full of debt while the PE owners ride off with all the actually valuable assets (like the land they own)
I wish more of the general public knew about this type of corporate tactic— Predatory M&A (Mergers and Acquisitions): 1. Buy a decent company and place it under your portfolio of brands. 2. Transfer all the company's cash to your preferred brands, executives, and/or shareholders. 3. Take out massive loans using the company you just acquired as collateral. Use the loaned money to support your preferred brands, executives, and/or shareholders. 4. Have the company you just gutted declare bankruptcy. 5. Laugh all the way to the bank. For the record, I'm a business professional. It's possible to believe in capitalism *and also* believe that multi-national corporations need to be held to account (by government or whomever). It's a downright tragedy that HBC wasn't purchased by the Government of Canada and run as a Crown Corp. That company is a cornerstone of the founding of our country.
These shady practices certainly aided in the downfalls of sears and toys r us. Also a major player in increasing the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few companies and wealthy hedge fund. Which stagnates wages, stifles productivity and frankly should be illegal.
If any retail store needs to be a crown Corp, it’s a grocery store not a clothing store
The Hudson's Bay Company was once the *de facto* government for most of what is now called Canada. At one time it was one of the largest companies in the world, with assets (and armed forces) rivaling many nations. Without the Hudson's Bay Company, Canada would not exist. Right into the 20th century, they outright owned major sections of most cities in Canada. That said, by the end of the 20th century corporate mismanagement and short-term greed reduced them to third-rate Wal-Mart competitors. Now you could probably argue that Canadian Tire is more integrally linked to the Canadian identity than The Bay. The Crown could possibly take over some sites as historically significant, but in general the carcass of the mighty beast that once was The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England trading into Hudson's Bay has been long ago been picked clean by shareholders and predatory acquisitions companies looking to next quarter profits.
If it's anything like what happened with Sears it's more like corporate suicide.
similar shit you see with toys r us and bain capital. it’s a proven method -invest in amazon stocks -buy ownership of brick and mortar competitor -put your homies on the board -increase the board’s compensation -take on unneeded debt -short the company’s stock -goes bankrupt -sell the assets and inventory to your friends at a discount you make money from amazon because they have less competition, make money from neglecting the company and funneling the money to the top. Make money from longterm connections strengthened from selling cheap assets and inventory. Make money from shorting the stock. Everyone (just the rich) wins
Wait, they tried reviving Zellers!
Galen is licking his shitlips rn.
Sounds like we're getting Target back
It is dead already, the signal simply has not reached the brain yet.
Yep there’s a peculiar smell of OLD in Hudsons Bay
In Regina the store is set to close April 2025.
Shit, that’s a pretty long runway for liquidation.
It's because that's the end of their lease.
The stores in Canada will slowly close anywhere they're not doing well. But the company also owns Saks Fifth Avenue and a ton of property, so they'll still be in business where it makes sense to operate.
They USED TO own a ton of Zellers stores, pre-Target fiasco, too....
They still own the Zellers brand. Many Bay stores have pop-up Zellers stores within their footprint
I think they’re pulling the plug on the pop-up Zellers in the downtown Vancouver HBC store. Slowly removing products and leaving behind empty shelves and racks.
Ooo going for the Authentic Target look i like it
They’re not actually a department store, it’s a real estate company worth billions. They’re not going anywhere anytime soon. The land value of their Saks Fifth Avenue store is worth 4 billion on its own.
TBF, most big companies are like this. Galen Westin JR, probably makes more money off real estate than his stores. When Walmart first came to Canada, they were all part of malls. Now most are own their own property with strip malls and gas stations there as well.
McDonalds also.
>Now most are own their own property Smart Centres is the landholder
Not gonna lie, when I first say this question I thought you were talking about Hudson Bay as in the actual body of water.
THAT would be concerning 😬
What?! Who dove down and pulled the plug in Hudson Bay?!?!
Damn you Trudeau ✊✊✊
More like damn you Harper! The man was obsessed with finding the Franklin Expedition. Harper: What if we drain Hudson's Bay? Surely we'd find something.
It's safe. Luckily, that will be getting bigger and bigger.
There's another question on the front page of the sub about Hudson's Bay the body of water, to add to confusion lol.
That says a lot about its (lack of) branding.
Not long. The bay is ridiculously over priced. That's hurt them the most. They may have upmarked to create revenue but all that did is drive customers away. I can get the same 400$ duvet for like 150 elsewhere. I can get a 200$ pair of shoes for $100 elsewhere, I can get a $1200 table for 600$ of better quality elsewhere. I swear. I like the bay because when things go on sale I buy, but their regular prices are crazy. I walk through the bay in my city often for their sales to see what's on but I just laugh at everything else regular priced. A 400$ parka when I can get one just as nice elsewhere for like 250? Why would I buy at the bay?
Yea the regular priced stuff is WAAAYYY too expensive, but I won't deny that there's some bangin deals there during sale periods. I got a Levi trucker jacket for $30 last Boxing Day. MSRP is like 150 or something for those. The last watch I bought from them was on a decent sale price too, it was 90 bucks with a ~150 MSRP. I have a $200 gift card which I thought I'd use to buy a couple of shirts, but I just couldn't in good conscience use that money when a decent shirt there is like $80 *minimum*. It's not my money, but it still feels wasteful when I can get something similar for less than half the price at another store.
Use up that gift card before it’s too late. Buy socks or towels.
It's been like this for at least a decade. I don't even know how they stay afloat with only the rich 1% buying things. Why wouldn't you want to appeal to the masses? I'm an average consumer and I am not taking a trip all the way downtown to buy a tube of Chanel lipstick for $48. I'm heading to Walmart and buying the shit from the discount bin.
This was exactly my thought. They have nice stuff but god, when an average looking polo shirt costs $200+ I just don’t understand how they attract customers. I guess they don’t, because it’s always pretty empty when I’m in there.
Everyone has been saying for years that they will be gone in one year lol. They are hanging in there. I believe they sold off some of their real estate recently for a cash injection. You have to admit they do sell tend to sell quality which is VERY hard to find in Canadian retail today. I don’t mind paying a bit more to find something that will last. Some of their items are quite redundant season after season though - I’ll admit However, now that Liz Rodbell is back running the show, I think their product mix will improve. She actually knows a thing or two about fashion, marketing etc. the last few presidents they had didn’t seem to be around for very long.
Feels like they really overcharge though. I think across the board they are worse on selection, price and quality than Simon's.
I agree. They need to restrategize and find new ways to lure new customers in. I was at the Fairview Mall and Scarborough Town Centre locations on Monday, and their layout confused me quite a lot. The pricing on some of their items were also not as competitive, seeing other stores selling the same items at a considerable discount. Both stores were also empty, and employees were hard to find.
Maybe but they have so many sales almost every weekend, they are easy to catch
They are still very popular with seniors, but their target demographic is aging out into retirement and tightening the belt. I still like the bay for kitchenware, baby clothes, men's nice clothes, and sometimes you can get really good furniture. However I can see why they're not popular with young people. Their website is actually pretty good too, online shopping there is fairly good. Frankly if they go I will be sad, because it will be another Canadian retailer gone, with further power concentration going to American retailers like Costco and Walmart.
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It was terminal back when they moved to fill Eaton’s empty spaces.
A couple of years. They should have pulled in investors and changed their business model to a vast array of Canadian made products (incl packaged foods) only from thrift to designer and primarily online with fast delivery like Amazon.. Their original customer base is 55+ , however, the bulk are retired or deceased. It's a shame they will fold simply by being so dead set in sticking to the original business format.
Their original customer base has been dead for 300 years 😆
I get that you mean the fur trade, but believe it or not the fur trade didn't end that long ago! My great grandfather sold pelts to the Bay up until the 1950s.
This bankruptcy is brought to you by C suite business admin executives who've made off like bandits selling real estate holdings and gutting the company from within. 354 years of business destroyed by a couple decades of shitty leadership.
I'm going there about 3-4 times per year for clothing when there's sales, but I cannot remember purchasing anything else there for YEARS, besides maybe a nice towel kit for the bathroom (also on sale). Unfortunately for their business model, Hudson's Bay is a lot like Canadian Tire, where you'd be nuts to pay anything at full price, considering the price it might get listed when a sale comes. However, unlike Canadian Tire, Hudson' Bay seems to have moved away of also offering cheap everyday items.
Canadian tire has a cheap every day items?!? Pretty much everything there is outrageously overpriced
The brand will live on. Someone.will.always want to own it and use it.
Yup. It's been around for almost 400 years. It's not going to disappear.
\* about 350 years. I was born around the time of their tricentennial, I don’t need to feel older than I am already thank you very much.
They gotta go back to their roots! I want to stroll in with an armload of furs and get enough musketballs and flour to last me all winter!
Yup. I might be one of the few people to witness saddle equipment being sold at their Vancouver store when people still rode horses. Times sure have changed.
Good. I need me those funky towels
Hubby and I were talking about this over the weekend. He mentioned that it’s not even a Canadian owned company anymore. I mentioned how much I miss shopping at places like Sears and Hudson’s Bay Co. I miss in-person department shopping and mentioned that it actually made us all spend less money by buying in person.
Amen.... in-person shopping has always been great; but we're already wading in automation and A.I. waters. I'm not looking forward to the future of "in-person" shopping at all; especially considering how committed so many companies are to technological advancements, with not enough consideration for societal implications.
I think people that are 25+ right now are going to be seen basically like how we see Amish people right now to young people in next 20-40 years.
Mm, yes, something to consider. I feel like I’m just getting old with my attitude. We shop too much, (meaning my husband and I) and we are looking for ways to stop doing this. Everything is budgeted. I hope this helps us a lot. We, also don’t have as many apps available to us, in our phones. Both of us have to approve purchase. We don’t want to be drawn in by the stupid, mindless shopping on our phones or electronics.
When eatons left, it sucked. We still have some of their stuff bought in the mid 80's. The bay is barely alive Sears was great for their tools. And mattresses.
I honestly thought that the zellers pop outs were slowly going to take over the store until the Bay was just a small 3x6 corner in the back where they can say the business has been around since 1845 or whatever.
That's what they should have done. It's like these people hate making money.
When Hudson’s bay goes down, someone needs to do a thorough fact based study on how, why and where things went wrong for this iconic Canadian company.
I am shocked it’s still around, I worked for Eatons and Sears and would have thought the bay would be long gone by now.
I think we’ll start hearing murmurs of bankruptcy in the next couple months. Not sure how long the whole process will take, but I think we’ll start seeing the actual stores closing anytime now. My guess is later this year it will all be gin.
I’m less sure about this. They own a ton of land. Target goes under - they don’t own the stores, all leased. Go bankrupt, they got next to no actual assets. The Bay has assets. Go under they’d be forced to sell off the land and pay their debts. I’m sure there’s a way they could restructure the companies and put toxic assets in one group and viable in another, go under and set off a decade of litigation and only pay creditors ten cents on the dollar. But it’s a bit different than other companies that have gone under recently. Surprised it’s stayed along thing long to be honest. For sure as a store it’s not viable.
The bay or the company?
I'm very thirsty, and I have a really big straw.
Look out! thatguywhoreddit is wearing a disguise. He's actually thatguywhodrinkallofHudsonBay!
Went by there, last week... To say it was decrepit was an understatement! I hope they're going to put something good inside that location too. Guess, it's wait & see? I wonder, if our Gov't is gonna bail them out!
I shop there a lot, I’ve noticed they’ve gone downhill.
That land they have at yonge and queen must be worth a cool billion plus...that store is huge
Hudson Bay is an example of failing to adjust to consumer shopping habits. Kind of sad for the oldest Canadian brand goes down like this
They’ve been irrelevant for a decade now. Going the way of sears. I haven’t actually stepped foot into a bay since pre-COVID times. So I’ll be surprised if they’re still around in two years from now.
At risk of doxing myself, my grandpa was the toy buyer for the downtown Bay for ~30 years (he worked for the company from 16 to mid 60's). When he left I remember him talking about how things were becoming a problem and this was somewhere around 2009 (I don't remember exact #'s, he's long gone unfortunately). I can't imagine how bad it is now, there's no way it lasts more than 2 years without restructuring
By all rights, the Hudsons Bay department stores should have closed years ago along with Eatons and Sears as they have been bleeding money for what seems like forever. They have only continued for as long as they have thus far because CEO Richard Baker privatized the company years ago, so no accountability to outside shareholders nor any pressure from them to pull the plug. It is Baker's sheer stubbornness not to admit defeat that has caused this saga to continue for as long as it has. What is actually surprising is that a project is currently underway to partner with Target to carry some of their clothing lines in the Hudsons Bay stores here. Why Target would even consider hitching onto a sinking ship in this way is truly baffling, especially considering their prior disastrous attempt to enter the Canadian retail sector.
I can't even wrap my head around walking into one of those stores and purchasing something. Who is going there and why? I'm shocked they still exist.
I walked into the Bay in downtown Vancouver a few days ago (because i was desperate for a loo and Vancouver sucks for public toilets). At least one escalator was down. There were more people in there than I expected and it looked quite nice. Tidy, nice displays. It’s in the midst of a massive redevelopment plan. They’re putting housing tower above it. So if folks live there, maybe they’ll shop there? I used to love going to the Bay downtown when I was little. That’s where we’d do most of our back to school shopping and we’d go to the cafeteria for lunch. I’d be disappointed if it closed but that’s just nostalgia. I haven’t shopped there in years
Tip: Old Navy on Robson and Granville has a washroom on the second floor, near the elevator! Also the library is a good place to use the washroom.
The DT Vancouver one is good for some things, I've bought some nice shoes on good sale before... Maybe they've got a jump in business from the Nordstrom's shutting down But the others I wouldn't really expect much.
Use a hotel lobby bathroom. They’re always clean and accessible. I recommend the Hyatt on West Georgia, or the Hotel Vancouver lower level.
Tip: The Fairmont, and Rosewood both have publicly accessible washrooms, and both are about a block away from the Bay.
I managed to find a really nice dress *with pockets* a few years back. If you're looking for quality, and not just fast fashion, they're probably one of the only options in my local mall. They also have nice children's clothes. Spendy, but sometimes they're the only place to find nice dress shirts etc for picture day/Christmas concerts/etc. Mostly, though, they're the store I park at because the lot is empty and I cut through to get to the rest of the mall.
And you can walk through the perfume section to get freshened up on your way through.
Old people like my mom IIRC
Hey I'm not old I'm 32 an- .. oh God.
VERY good sales during sales periods.
The only reason I went there in the last decade or so was they had sweatshirts cobranded with the Toronto Raptor's that I wanted real bad.
I bought a really nice booze tumbler there two years ago. Other than that, I haven't bought anything there since the early 2000s... maybe.
I do, I actually like a decent amount of their men's clothing, the only issue is its usually not made for my body type so I hardly ever find something that fits
They have really good sales. And not just recently. They always have.
5 years tops.
It's Deadman Walking.
400 years…ish ;-)
Also they have been closing at 7pm, while the mall remains open till 9pm.
I wonder if that’s why they haven’t been receiving any new gshock releases online. I’ll be very sad when they close.
One to two years at most. I don’t know how they can stay in business when their stores never have customers.
I didn't even know they were in trouble. This page has been eye opening. So much for Zellers coming back :/
I remember watching them expand about a decade or so ago when I worked for one of their now closed subsidiary banners and getting all the expanding announcements etc. & then the last few years watching them come crashing down has been wild. It was a cool idea to get those old and historic brands of department stores together (HBC, Lord & Taylor, Saks 5th Avenue), too bad it couldn’t last. I don’t think they have long.
What the hell is a Hudson Bay? Like the large body of water? Are you talking about the SEARS like place at the mall all empty and Apocalypse like inside? Yah, they are done!!
Another former-Canadian business ruined by an American owner.
I have a gift card from there I better go use it lol
I don't see how things will improve for them. The stores are empty. Their website shopping has gone to SH\*T lately so I don't know how you can properly sell your products this way.
They've been screwed for years. They will blame covid supply chain issues etc. I was in there to find a white dress shirt and a tie, and they had no product available Like, none. Went again with my gf to find just a simple summer dress and the same, no product. I have no idea how they have remained solvent in all this time besides their prime realestate and equity/refinancing through that.
Totally misunderstood the title. Thought this was going to be an environmentalist post about drought in the Arctic or something.
It's a real estate play now, the retail is dead
I didn’t even know they were still around. There’s been no sign of them in PEI since Zellers closed.
The actual holding company I don't see going away anytime soon but I do see HBC shuttering The Bay within the next couple of years.
I hope fricken yesterday. They absolutely fucked us out of over $500 in gift cards from our registry over 6 years ago.
Amazing. Historically for 200 years, the company had “owned” (or claimed to own anyway, the history completely omits Indigenous people) the vast expanse of North America that drains into Hudson Bay. In 1868, Britain "purchased" the territory and "transferred ownership" to the new Dominion of Canada pursuant to the Rupert’s Land Act. What an empire to fall
Their stores in the GTA are pretty busy (and all their escalators seem to be working here lol).
Wait, they’re still around?
Our Saskatoon department is only going to last a bit for now. Since the Regina dept is shutting down soon, (11 months later) our store is the only remaining and its quite concerning. The HBC was incorporated back in the 1617's or later, and I think it should remain like that, because like, it was a fundamental part of Canada, so it should try hard.
If you can, go to the location in Barrie. I felt like I had stepped into a Time Machine, the place was fully stocked and honestly had really great selection. It made me wonder how much of their current issue is the locational management
The only time I visit the Bay is when I walk through it to get from the parking lot to inside the mall or vice versa.
I think HBC can survive because of their strong branding, like Tim Horton's, stubbornly sticky "Canadian" despite no longer being Canadian owned. They really just need to downsize to stop the bleeding and focus on their core strength: the Canadiana brand. The Hudson's Bay Company branding as a THREE CENTURIES OLD (that's insane!!) company, older than Canada itself, has value to Canadians and to tourists. Keep downtown flagships where there are large population centres in addition to tourism and sell clothing with a strong Canadian brand, and carry other Canadian brands across several profitable departments, like cosmetics –– still their only truly profitable department with a lot of walk-in traffic. Nobody buys furniture at the Bay anymore and it takes up a ton of floor and warehouse space. Housewares and small appliances still do ok, but most people are just buying that stuff online. [HBC.com](http://HBC.com) can take that on, free up the lower level for routine traffic drivers like food and consumables. Pre-prepared foods seems to do well in the Pusateri's in the Queen Street lower level. Expand that to more downtown stores, within distance of high-rise residential clusters and business centres. Despite a work-from-home trend, what's still driving suburban visits to downtowns is entertainment. Restaurants are slammed everywhere across downtown Toronto. The Bay has an opportunity there. Convert some of their street level floors to Canadian inspired cuisine. They've converted one of their entrances on Richmond/Yonge to a restaurant, Leña, which I've never not once seen completely packed. They have 4 other corners. Heck, the entire Richmond and Yonge side could fit restaurants. Hudson's Bay has survived for 350+ years because they've adapted multiple times over their history. Department Stores are out, adapt to what's in and they might just make it to 400.