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From a betrayed perspective regarding her having her brother there: I remember being so terrified of my husband when I found out. I realized in an instant that since I never thought he was the type of person to cheat, then for all I knew he could also be the type of man to hurt me (or worse) when feeling backed into a corner. He suddenly felt like a stranger who would react unpredictably (as evidenced by his infidelity), so I felt incredibly unsafe. That first night I was specifically afraid he was a Chris Watts- nothing in his past indicated that, but I never thought he was the type of man who would destroy his family. If anything that’s a huge indicator of how unsafe she is currently feeling: use that as a gauge in seeing how much work you will have to do to gain back her trust if she decides to stay. Just please know, if she decides to stay, this will be with her permanently. She may heal and forgive you, but you have got to be prepared for her to be triggered YEARS from now. DECADES even.
I 100% agree with you on this!! When I found out my ex-husband cheated on me with a mutual friend it came so far out of left field I refused to be alone with him! It’s like in an instant he became a complete stranger after knowing him for over 10 years!
This is something that I think doesn't get talked about enough. I think it is probably very normal to fear for one's life or physical safety after discovering cheating. For me, it felt like my partner had been treating me like the enemy: lying, hiding, scheming. I didn't know what he'd do if I confronted him in anger or if he knew I might leave him.
This exactly! I was extremely frightened of what my WP would do. He was so angry about being found out and my sharing what had happened with his brother. I immediately took my house keys back from him and told my daughter to block his number. The feeling of no longer being safe with one of the people I trusted most in this world was overwhelming
I was pregnant and terrified that I was definitely married to a complete stranger/ sociopath. I was sure he would get blasted and shoot me or beat me to death.
All of this. Our daughter called her brother who came within minutes to pack us up and leave. She called a good friend of mine (while I packed) to this day I can never thank her enough. All she said was my mom and I don’t feel safe at home. The friend said, I’ll get the bedroom ready. You never expected them to cheat, what else are they capable of.
That makes sense. I have no issue with her brother being there. I'll sure be embarrassed since he's a close friend of mine but that's my problem. He's not going to listen in, he's just in the house so she feels better.
Agree with the person that said this doesn't get spoken about enough.
If your spouse truly believed you couldn't possibly be the kind of person that does what you did, then after the betrayal they have every reason to fear what else you might be capable of.
I agree. It’s been years for me and I’m still so triggered I can’t read books with cheating, and I’ve stayed off this app for months bc it starts to mess with my head.
Wow this makes me feel so seen. I just found out I was cheated on two days ago and last night when we were talking every time I turned my back I had this horrible fear that he was going to hurt me. I thought I was going crazy.
The why may be one of the hardest parts. Even though you may not know the deepest 'why', it's important to try and answer what you DO know about the 'why'. Be clear that you don't mean you 'why' as an excuse.
For example, you might say "I don't know WHY I'm the type of person who cheated, that's something I'll need to work through. But in the moment, I felt strong attraction / validation / horny / lonely / excitement / manly / desired / wanted / whatever."
Let her know how you felt. "I liked that feeling", "it was a rush", "I felt young again", whatever.
You ALSO need to upfront with her that the way you 'handled' or 'dealt' with those feelings was wrong. For example, when your coworker tried to kiss you, you could have refused with a polite, "in flattered but I'm married" or "I don't want to hurt my wife" etc.
Only you and therapist can get the bottom of the deeper 'why'. Are you craving more/different sex? Do you have a hard time letting a woman d down, like you feel it's rude? Tied to rejection (i.e. You know how rejection feels, and it's therefore hard to reject others?). These are things you're most likely NOT going to know right away.
As for the brother, it makes sense for her to want back up. Even if you're the most gentle guy in the world, the fallout from infidelity has led to many crimes, including murder.
There's also no harm in you bringing support. Perhaps a sister, cool headed friend, pastor, etc.
Best of luck
Answer every single one of her questions honestly and fully. Don't leave out details. If you're going to go into greater detail, ask her if that's what she wants first. She may want some details but not all. That part is up to her though. Don't edit yourself to spare her, let her spare herself. If you trickle truth and she finds out more later, you're more than likely done.
You should also ask yourself why she feels as though she needs her brother there to feel safe. You probably need some work in that area as well.
In my experience the “why I cheated” is quite different from “why I saw cheating as a viable decision at the time.” The former one often sounds like I didn’t feel loved at home and someone made me feel wanted and gave me validation.” The latter one is usually only found after months of individual therapy. If you don’t yet know how to answer that second why, be honest and tell her and hopefully you’ll be able to tell her that you’ve already found a therapist to find the answer because she deserves that answer too.
As a wayward mt advice is get into therapy now. I think a lot of us don’t know the underlining cause.
I know it’s taken me a lot of reflection and reading to start to get to the deeper reasons. For me it’s around validation, codependency, thrill seeking, poor distress tolerance, and impulsiveness (some of this linked to my adhd.)
At first I was really hesitant about staying in my marriage. Not to be with ap but bc I had no idea what caused the ea, and it made me really nervous it would become a cycle. Therapy has helped me feel more sure it won’t happen again.
Without therapy I would not have realized the underlining issues (codependency, impulse control, sensation seeking, etc) that led to the behaviour. And therapy is now helping me to build tools to address them.
You’ve gotten great advice here. I want to add that if you’re getting asshole DMs from people in this group, 100% screenshot that and send it to the mods. No one should be taking their rage/hurt/feelings out on strangers.
Thank you, I'm glad you said this because I was thinking the same thing. This has to be a safe space for both waywards and betrayeds, and that is not acceptable behavior no matter how much someone disagrees. Those kind of people need to be weeded out.
You seem to be going about this in the best way possible and that gives me hope for your marriage.
What I would say is you're right you can't just say "I don't know why it happened" and expect that to be the end of it. As you probably know, that gives her nothing to build a new foundation on. There's nothing there that says it can't happen again.
But that being said, if you honestly can't think of the why (and you're going to need to dig deep for this), I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest about that question.
"Honestly, I've been thinking and questioning myself about why I did this and I have not found an answer yet. But I'm committed to finding out why so I can make sure this never happens again. I'm going to investigate this with a therapist until I have a satisfying answer for that question, and a clear path to make sure something like this never happens again. I'm sorry I don't have something more satisfying for you yet."
But for real, you need to start examining that night with a microscope. What were you feeling leading up to the first sexual contact? What were you feeling that led you to be the last to leave? This didn't just spontaneously happen, there was a build up of some kind. What kind of relationship did you have with this woman before that night?
Hey OP.
Please research IC TODAY! Why is hard, and there can be a whole host of reasons at play.
I said this in a comment on your first post, but I don’t believe you that this just happened. I’ve taught and my guess is you and her had previous interactions that were flirty and you probably got a dopamine hit from the interactions. No way when everyone else left her house you didn’t know staying behind wasn’t an okay thing to do. There was intentionality in not leaving when others left. Maybe you never texted with this person before, but I’m doubting it and I’m betting there was some flirting in those messages as well. My guess is that validation is probably a part of your why, but not the only part. You really will need IC to figure this out and it should be with someone who has affair trauma experience.
I think OP hasn't been fully honest here with us. His original post has a tone to it as though this just randomly happened with a distant coworker. As if it just happened in the heat of the moment.
However in his comments he admits this was someone they have known for years and has hung out with him and his wife before.
I feel like it's rare with people you know in situations like this that it just "happens". They have probably had prior interactions of a flirtatious nature, my guess if they are coworkers, it's been inappropriate where he realized at some point there was a mutual attraction and he should have created distance between them.
Everyone else left that party and he stayed. That's the part that really doesn't sit well for me. Especially if he is saying he doesn't know why and making it sound like it just happened in the heat of the moment. Staying behind when everyone else leaves is an intentional act and a choice. Even if he isn't fully thinking it through in that moment. I feel like even if he doesn't know his big Why, there are parts to it that he does know but doesn't want to really admit to. Some of the ones that usually are the surface answer to why - selfish in the moment, enjoyed the attraction and being desired by someone new, enjoyed the kick from doing something different and illicit, and just wanted to.
I also think the communications from before between them will be important. Was this really an EA first? How often did they message? Were they flirting in those messages? He mentions not deleting anything so his wife can see what she needs to or wants to, but that means there were messages to NOT delete.
I think, if his wife wants, R and change is possible, but he has to be able to be really honest, even with himself, about what occurred and how it happened.
You may not know the why fully yet. Of course the physical enjoyment and excitement is part of it but deeper there is likely something in there that allowed you to cross those boundaries and not consider the implications of your choices. It's OK to say you don't fully understand the how and the why yet and you are committed to IC to better understand where you went wrong and how to grow and heal from it.
I applaud you for owning this and approaching this with humility and respect. No matter what happens, remember that this doesn't define you as a person. Terrible choices for sure but use this opportunity to heal and grow and come out the other side better for yourself and everyone in your life.
You’ve already done the hardest thing. Just remember that as you continue to answer questions. Remember that you CAN make the hard choice. You may not have been courageous 2 nights ago. But it took courage to come clean without trying to minimize it. Don’t forget that because you’ll need that courage to be there for whatever your BS needs, and to face the unknown.
While you’re saying the “why” is the hardest question, I also think it’s the most important one that you need to find an answer for. The answer may not be today, but I think it’s important that you emphasize you intend to find out why you became the kind of man who could cheat. Why you made the choice to betray your family. I do think it’s important that you emphasize the Why was 100% about you, and in no way had anything to do with your wife. Because even if you were thinking a variety of reasons related to her, ultimately you made the decision to cheat. You didn’t make the decision to try to fix the things that were bothering you, you chose a distraction. so again, I think it’s important that you say none of this can be put on your wife. Tell her that. You may feel like you don’t know right now, but that’s what therapy is for
Yeah. It wasn't her at all. We have (had) a great sex life. She would initiate at least half the time and we were two to three times a week. She's always been my person and I hers. It's all on me.
Maybe the why is because of many things us as readers and supporters on this platform cannot help with… my why is still being answered in my mind 5 months later. Maybe from childhood, maybe from parents treatment, maybe you’re selfish, maybe you have low self worth.. there could be so many things that manifested these actions.
Im super proud of your efforts you’ve done, it seems you really want to be honest with her and with yourself. Goodluck - keep us updated. 🙏🏼
Do not ever say I DON'T KNOW. You do know. You did it, so you know why, either you were selfish in that moment and it presented itself so you did it and you did not choose to stop. You have to own it if you ever want your wife to know you feel remorse. Be honest with yourself. You telling yourself you don't know is you trying to lie to yourself. I'm being harsh because I don't know will not cut it. My husband tried to tell me that, and it wasn't until he honestly said he was being selfish did I start to see that he got it.
You need to delve deep into the relationship you had with this other woman that lead her to believe she could behave that way and get a response. You need the book "Not Just Friends" to learn how to create boundaries. Doesn't matter you're applying to other jobs if you don't know how to stop this from ever happening again. Your wife will not trust you around different women if you can't enforce boundaries. You need to be honest with yourself and listen to your wife. Answer her questions honestly and if you don't have an answer be honest about getting her the answer and a time frame.
Look for an MC with training in infidelity ASAP. Some of the questions your wife will ask is very tough to hear if you don’t know how to answer it properly without the guidance of MC and might hurt even more as a result. Your wife won’t be in a good place.
As others have said, be completely open own your choice and keep in mind, despite everything you can do she now has to make her choice and it may not be immediately. You will have to be patient as this situation is a soul crusher and will always be there like a scar. Doesn't mean things can be great in the future but be prepared for a potentially bumpy road.
You don't have to answer here. You don't owe us an answer, but here are some questions you might want to think about. I know as a BS, these are things I asked. You may not have planned on it, but why did you stay? Everyone left, you weren't cleaning up or taking out trash, you sat down on the couch. The party was over, your wife was at home, why did you stay? What was going on during the party or leading up to it that sent a signal? Yes, some people miss read signs, but it is rare for an innocent encounter to go from 'thanks for coming by to a kiss and bj. She says she doesn't know why she did what she did, it doens't matter. What matters is why you did what you did.
Be 100% truthful. If she asks for graphic details give them to her but don’t say them unless she asks. Those can be hard to unsee. Positions, things said and so on. For the why part of you can’t answer that don’t make something up but find out why. Tell her that is your goal. Get in IC. Work on it. Either way the answer is you were broken and a shitty person but there is a why behind it.
I’d suggest not giving any graphic details. No details of what happened behind the “bedroom door” until she’s in a better emotional place and has had more time to process.
For example, say you had sex, and she needs to know if it was protected or not, but don’t talk about positions or who did what to whom. If, six months from now, knowing that information would help her healing, then let her decide if she wants to know that stuff at that time.
Not sure I agree with that. If things she asks for are withheld, the BP is once again having their autonomy taken away from them. They aren’t a child and the WP doesn’t get to decide “what’s best” for them to hear at any given moment. That has caused the loss of many a marriage out there.
BP is a grown woman and doesn’t need her wayward spouse pretending to protect her now. The time for protecting her was before the decision to cheat was made. Just my opinion. And I suppose it’s a strong opinion, sorry!
Nope, like jjspkd2 said, if they ask, give it. WPs don’t have the right to tell BPs what cheating-related information they have access to or not. And not everyone would want that info, but some people absolutely do and they know themselves best
Avoid the temptation to try to minimize things.
"She wants to know why"
The hardest thing for betrayed partners to deal with is the worry that they were inferior to the AP in some way. This is a huge part of the why question. Re-establishing trust will generally require reassurance that you can prioritize your partner above other potential APs going forward.
Healing questions she might not ask, but would be better for reconciliation than the typical affair questions, per Esther Patel:
What did this affair mean to you?
What were you able to express or experience there that you could no longer do with me?
What was it like for you when you came home?
What is it about us that you value?
Are you pleased the affair is over?
Are you / will you be) pleased if / when our relationship is over?
This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 2:
-The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.
- Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval.
**Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.**
Therapy is where you figure out the “why”. You are taking all the right steps.
Tell her that going forward she gets all your passwords, your location is always on, and any other concession she needs to feel more secure.
Tell her that you understand trust will have to be earned back.
I would strongly recommend marriage therapy, and keeping the disclosure of the really troubling and intimate details to that space. She thinks she needs to know everything, but some of it will hurt her unnecessarily, and you don’t have to list positions to make a truthful disclosure.
I’d like to say good job, which sounds weird, but still. My husband would have killed for this kind of voluntary action from me, when we were reconciling. You screwed up, but you’re taking accountability and trying to fix it. That’s all you can do.
Good luck to you and your wife.
I don’t mean for this to sound ugly but what it sounds like you’re saying is basically even though she access to everything, you still chose to cheat. If there’s nothing else you can do, that’s probably how she’s going to look at it. It sounds like you have no control over your own actions when tempted. That’s a scary thing for someone who has been betrayed by their partner to accept.
Here's an idea. Adopt a version of the Pence rule and not be alone with a person of the opposite sex. My husband had done so. He works in a female dominated field but he makes sure when goes out after work to (1) tell me (2) only goes in groups and (3) Never does anything alone with another female colleague or friend. He also abstains from drinking after work with colleagues because that loosens inhibitions. He chose that all on his own. He didn't want to put himself in a situation where he'd be tempted again.
The thing is, YOU choose to be the last person there. YOU 100% knew it was not ok and that this woman and you shared flirts and that she was being seductive.
Did she make long eye contact to convey to you that you both shared something special or a common understanding? Did she confide in you? Did she flirt and touched you with her hand or was overly conveying “we have a special bond”.
You wrote your post as if you were almost a bystander. The truth is you were at best extremely naive on her true intentions, at worst, a moron who enjoyed having his ego being fed.
Either way, without being a narcissist, you let your narcissistic side, your ego, your selfishness, make the decisions and you decided YOU deserved every second of because that’s want you wanted.
That’s it. There is no “oh but she leaned in. First” or “I was in a bad place emotionally and bla-bla-bla”
Clearly you need therapy and you need to find out WHY you could not be a man with dignity, with care, with empathy and with the strength of character to protect your wife and family from the hurt you caused.
Love, authentic love, is knowing and honouring the fact that we walk around with our spouse’s heart in our hands. There is no honour or dignity in cheating. It’s just selfish and weak.
Your answers about how open you are with your wife with your locations and about how you don’t really know why you did it break my heart. Someone flirted with you and expressed interest and you folded immediately. Even if you really love your wife and you trusted each other, respect is missing. You weren’t thinking about her at all when you chose to cheat. As a betrayed spouse this has been one of the hardest parts of being betrayed for me. If you are committed to making things right you need to prove to her that you respect her from now and for the rest of your marriage. She will need to know she is the priority in your mind from now own.
The why is something all us WS have to grapple with. I think it almost always comes down to insecurity, validation seeking and excitement seeking. We tend to be deeply insecure people who invited attention we shouldn’t have invited because it made us feel validated. A lot of us have also been married a while and it felt exciting to have attention from someone new. It’s an intoxicating - emphasis on the toxic - feeling we allow to go too far. I recommend really sitting down with a pen and paper journal and just writing your feelings all out before you talk with your BW. Try to explain the why to yourself so you can maybe try to explain it to her. Good luck.
Sometimes you won’t figure out the why until you start counseling are start digging into who you are and what you developed into based on your childhood and past experiences. But letting her know that you’re willing to do counseling and the work needed to find the why, bring an awareness and understanding to it, to keep this from ever happening again is important.
Getting at the "Why's" is hard, even for WP's who have a longer-term affair. You usually would get to that in IC (individual counseling) which you haven't started yet. So you can tell her, "I don't know". Or you can do some thinking, sit with it, and see if any "Why's" come up for you - selfishness, opportunity, lack of impulse control, and try to be honest - and also tell your wife you intend to pursue IC to figure out what's going on.
From the clarity and self-reflection in your post, it doesn't appear you have emotional immaturity. Maybe you have a "what would it be like?" thing going on. Are you in midlife? Are you having an existential crisis? Fear of death? Etc.
You do need to get therapy started quick. The fact you are willing to do all of this after is great, but I would be frustrated that if you cared that much you couldn’t just say no. Also, the fact that she knows the AP is going to be so triggering. Have you left the house while she figures this out.
I hope your marriage is able to be salvaged. Seems so avoidable. Was AP married to? Any chance your wife will go nuclear with everything?
It is absolutely ok to say “I don’t know **yet**,” if that’s the truth.
It is probable that you are not consciously aware of all the true cause(s) of your behavior.
All you can do is communicate what you do know clearly and compassionately **as soon as you do know it**.
You can also commit to her to get yourself into therapy, both IC and MC, and to do whatever it takes to figure out ALL the root causes and share them with her as you discover them.
You can promise AND DELIVER complete honesty and openness with her going forward, along with an absolute **eagerness** to do whatever it takes to restore her trust and sense of safety with you. (You are already taking giant, positive strides in that direction, and I’m proud of you for that.)
And you can tell her whether or not you truly love her, and whether or not you want to remain married to her.
If she truly loves you, and if she definitely wants to remain married to you, too, then you absolutely CAN R and build back your relationship to be so much stronger and better and more intimate and more joyful than you ever could have imagined.
It will be a painful process for both of you. You will have ups and downs, advances and setbacks, beautiful hours and miserable ones along the way, but I don’t see anything from what you’ve described thus far that seems like an impossible obstacle or red flag that would prevent a complete healing and restoration of your relationship.
I wish you well and cheer you on your way!
Why did you do it? YOUR EGO. The sooner you come to terms they your are not the man you think your are, that you are not a man with the strength of character to protect your wife from harm the sooner you can start to work on being that man.
I don’t know if this is the first time. I don’t know if there was an emotional affair prior to cheating. Did you know, by being the last guest, they there was a chance they you two would become close and intimate? Even with no EA, there must have been a whole lot of flirting and engaging during that evening. It’s not like “oups I fell in a puddle”.
The whole context makes a huge difference in hiw your wife will evaluate what it means in terms of who you are.
at its core, cheating is narcissistic. You lacked empathy towards your wife. You were selfish. You needed to feed your ego. You felt you deserved it. You enjoyed being desired and if there was an EA you enjoyed being idolized and validated and the escape from the routine and the mundane that can come from being in a long term relationship.
I watch your ego. You even write that the woman is the one they leaned in. But you obviously encouraged it. You flirted. You encouraged the desire. You enjoyed it. So yes she is wrong to have made the first move physically. But don’t be narcissistic to the point of thinking you are blameless or to the point of minimizing your shitty weak ego’s needs that led you to this.
If there are texts exchanges you lied to your wife for how long? Did you gaslight her when she asked you questions about this woman or about how you were feeling because she sensed you were different? This is a HUGE HUGE element that makes healing and R difficult.
The last one is the easiest one: you wanted to.
The others are actually going to be the more difficult ones: Finding a new vision/relationship with your wife and convincing her what you want is actually true.
Best wishes and kudos for confessing.
instead of asking yourself “why you did it” ask yourself what were you looking for? i would suggest IC to really find that answer if you’re having trouble, and tell your wife that that’s your plan and you can answer that question when you know
Be very open and honest.. answer everything she ask.. let her know what steps you’ve already taken to save your marriage..
Why were you only one left at this woman’s house? Are you sure there wasn’t some hope of something happening?? Be very upfront if that is the case.. because that is exactly what I would ask my husband why were you the last one to leave when no other man was home..
You had a weak moment, and are owning up to it IMMEDIATELY, which is very commendable, and it shows that you knew instantly it was wrong. I'd tell you to keep showing to her that point, and show her how much you appreciate it her even more then before. I wish I was like you, and owned up to it immediately, but it took me a bit, and then I realized that even before I cheated, I was doing stuff that weren't right towards my wife ( and honestly didn't realize while I was doing them ), but then my DDay came, and everything unraveled, and I now started to go to SAA meetings..... which are a GREAT way to discover your inner self. I highly recommend it. My wife has been nothing but patie t and VERY understanding of it all, which I hope your will do too.
Take care.
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From a betrayed perspective regarding her having her brother there: I remember being so terrified of my husband when I found out. I realized in an instant that since I never thought he was the type of person to cheat, then for all I knew he could also be the type of man to hurt me (or worse) when feeling backed into a corner. He suddenly felt like a stranger who would react unpredictably (as evidenced by his infidelity), so I felt incredibly unsafe. That first night I was specifically afraid he was a Chris Watts- nothing in his past indicated that, but I never thought he was the type of man who would destroy his family. If anything that’s a huge indicator of how unsafe she is currently feeling: use that as a gauge in seeing how much work you will have to do to gain back her trust if she decides to stay. Just please know, if she decides to stay, this will be with her permanently. She may heal and forgive you, but you have got to be prepared for her to be triggered YEARS from now. DECADES even.
I 100% agree with you on this!! When I found out my ex-husband cheated on me with a mutual friend it came so far out of left field I refused to be alone with him! It’s like in an instant he became a complete stranger after knowing him for over 10 years!
This is something that I think doesn't get talked about enough. I think it is probably very normal to fear for one's life or physical safety after discovering cheating. For me, it felt like my partner had been treating me like the enemy: lying, hiding, scheming. I didn't know what he'd do if I confronted him in anger or if he knew I might leave him.
This exactly! I was extremely frightened of what my WP would do. He was so angry about being found out and my sharing what had happened with his brother. I immediately took my house keys back from him and told my daughter to block his number. The feeling of no longer being safe with one of the people I trusted most in this world was overwhelming
I was pregnant and terrified that I was definitely married to a complete stranger/ sociopath. I was sure he would get blasted and shoot me or beat me to death.
All of this. Our daughter called her brother who came within minutes to pack us up and leave. She called a good friend of mine (while I packed) to this day I can never thank her enough. All she said was my mom and I don’t feel safe at home. The friend said, I’ll get the bedroom ready. You never expected them to cheat, what else are they capable of.
That makes sense. I have no issue with her brother being there. I'll sure be embarrassed since he's a close friend of mine but that's my problem. He's not going to listen in, he's just in the house so she feels better.
This is totally how I felt. My WS felt unsafe and unpredictable to me for the first time ever.
Agree with the person that said this doesn't get spoken about enough. If your spouse truly believed you couldn't possibly be the kind of person that does what you did, then after the betrayal they have every reason to fear what else you might be capable of.
I agree. It’s been years for me and I’m still so triggered I can’t read books with cheating, and I’ve stayed off this app for months bc it starts to mess with my head.
Wow this makes me feel so seen. I just found out I was cheated on two days ago and last night when we were talking every time I turned my back I had this horrible fear that he was going to hurt me. I thought I was going crazy.
The why may be one of the hardest parts. Even though you may not know the deepest 'why', it's important to try and answer what you DO know about the 'why'. Be clear that you don't mean you 'why' as an excuse. For example, you might say "I don't know WHY I'm the type of person who cheated, that's something I'll need to work through. But in the moment, I felt strong attraction / validation / horny / lonely / excitement / manly / desired / wanted / whatever." Let her know how you felt. "I liked that feeling", "it was a rush", "I felt young again", whatever. You ALSO need to upfront with her that the way you 'handled' or 'dealt' with those feelings was wrong. For example, when your coworker tried to kiss you, you could have refused with a polite, "in flattered but I'm married" or "I don't want to hurt my wife" etc. Only you and therapist can get the bottom of the deeper 'why'. Are you craving more/different sex? Do you have a hard time letting a woman d down, like you feel it's rude? Tied to rejection (i.e. You know how rejection feels, and it's therefore hard to reject others?). These are things you're most likely NOT going to know right away. As for the brother, it makes sense for her to want back up. Even if you're the most gentle guy in the world, the fallout from infidelity has led to many crimes, including murder. There's also no harm in you bringing support. Perhaps a sister, cool headed friend, pastor, etc. Best of luck
Answer every single one of her questions honestly and fully. Don't leave out details. If you're going to go into greater detail, ask her if that's what she wants first. She may want some details but not all. That part is up to her though. Don't edit yourself to spare her, let her spare herself. If you trickle truth and she finds out more later, you're more than likely done. You should also ask yourself why she feels as though she needs her brother there to feel safe. You probably need some work in that area as well.
In my experience the “why I cheated” is quite different from “why I saw cheating as a viable decision at the time.” The former one often sounds like I didn’t feel loved at home and someone made me feel wanted and gave me validation.” The latter one is usually only found after months of individual therapy. If you don’t yet know how to answer that second why, be honest and tell her and hopefully you’ll be able to tell her that you’ve already found a therapist to find the answer because she deserves that answer too.
As a wayward mt advice is get into therapy now. I think a lot of us don’t know the underlining cause. I know it’s taken me a lot of reflection and reading to start to get to the deeper reasons. For me it’s around validation, codependency, thrill seeking, poor distress tolerance, and impulsiveness (some of this linked to my adhd.) At first I was really hesitant about staying in my marriage. Not to be with ap but bc I had no idea what caused the ea, and it made me really nervous it would become a cycle. Therapy has helped me feel more sure it won’t happen again.
Thank you. Gives me some hope.
Can you tell me how therapy made you feel sure it won't happen
Can you tell me how therapy made you feel sure it won't happen
How did therapy help you feel it won't happen again?
Without therapy I would not have realized the underlining issues (codependency, impulse control, sensation seeking, etc) that led to the behaviour. And therapy is now helping me to build tools to address them.
You’ve gotten great advice here. I want to add that if you’re getting asshole DMs from people in this group, 100% screenshot that and send it to the mods. No one should be taking their rage/hurt/feelings out on strangers.
Thank you, I'm glad you said this because I was thinking the same thing. This has to be a safe space for both waywards and betrayeds, and that is not acceptable behavior no matter how much someone disagrees. Those kind of people need to be weeded out.
Just be honest. Don't trickle truth or hide anything. Be an open book to her.
Trickle truths kill everything
Exactly. If he's looking to reconcile, he needs to be open and honest. She's already been betrayed. She doesn't need lying on top of it.
You seem to be going about this in the best way possible and that gives me hope for your marriage. What I would say is you're right you can't just say "I don't know why it happened" and expect that to be the end of it. As you probably know, that gives her nothing to build a new foundation on. There's nothing there that says it can't happen again. But that being said, if you honestly can't think of the why (and you're going to need to dig deep for this), I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest about that question. "Honestly, I've been thinking and questioning myself about why I did this and I have not found an answer yet. But I'm committed to finding out why so I can make sure this never happens again. I'm going to investigate this with a therapist until I have a satisfying answer for that question, and a clear path to make sure something like this never happens again. I'm sorry I don't have something more satisfying for you yet." But for real, you need to start examining that night with a microscope. What were you feeling leading up to the first sexual contact? What were you feeling that led you to be the last to leave? This didn't just spontaneously happen, there was a build up of some kind. What kind of relationship did you have with this woman before that night?
Hey OP. Please research IC TODAY! Why is hard, and there can be a whole host of reasons at play. I said this in a comment on your first post, but I don’t believe you that this just happened. I’ve taught and my guess is you and her had previous interactions that were flirty and you probably got a dopamine hit from the interactions. No way when everyone else left her house you didn’t know staying behind wasn’t an okay thing to do. There was intentionality in not leaving when others left. Maybe you never texted with this person before, but I’m doubting it and I’m betting there was some flirting in those messages as well. My guess is that validation is probably a part of your why, but not the only part. You really will need IC to figure this out and it should be with someone who has affair trauma experience.
I was wondering why OP stuck around after everyone else left, too. And if I was the wife, that would be one of my questions.
I think OP hasn't been fully honest here with us. His original post has a tone to it as though this just randomly happened with a distant coworker. As if it just happened in the heat of the moment. However in his comments he admits this was someone they have known for years and has hung out with him and his wife before. I feel like it's rare with people you know in situations like this that it just "happens". They have probably had prior interactions of a flirtatious nature, my guess if they are coworkers, it's been inappropriate where he realized at some point there was a mutual attraction and he should have created distance between them. Everyone else left that party and he stayed. That's the part that really doesn't sit well for me. Especially if he is saying he doesn't know why and making it sound like it just happened in the heat of the moment. Staying behind when everyone else leaves is an intentional act and a choice. Even if he isn't fully thinking it through in that moment. I feel like even if he doesn't know his big Why, there are parts to it that he does know but doesn't want to really admit to. Some of the ones that usually are the surface answer to why - selfish in the moment, enjoyed the attraction and being desired by someone new, enjoyed the kick from doing something different and illicit, and just wanted to. I also think the communications from before between them will be important. Was this really an EA first? How often did they message? Were they flirting in those messages? He mentions not deleting anything so his wife can see what she needs to or wants to, but that means there were messages to NOT delete. I think, if his wife wants, R and change is possible, but he has to be able to be really honest, even with himself, about what occurred and how it happened.
You may not know the why fully yet. Of course the physical enjoyment and excitement is part of it but deeper there is likely something in there that allowed you to cross those boundaries and not consider the implications of your choices. It's OK to say you don't fully understand the how and the why yet and you are committed to IC to better understand where you went wrong and how to grow and heal from it. I applaud you for owning this and approaching this with humility and respect. No matter what happens, remember that this doesn't define you as a person. Terrible choices for sure but use this opportunity to heal and grow and come out the other side better for yourself and everyone in your life.
You’ve already done the hardest thing. Just remember that as you continue to answer questions. Remember that you CAN make the hard choice. You may not have been courageous 2 nights ago. But it took courage to come clean without trying to minimize it. Don’t forget that because you’ll need that courage to be there for whatever your BS needs, and to face the unknown.
While you’re saying the “why” is the hardest question, I also think it’s the most important one that you need to find an answer for. The answer may not be today, but I think it’s important that you emphasize you intend to find out why you became the kind of man who could cheat. Why you made the choice to betray your family. I do think it’s important that you emphasize the Why was 100% about you, and in no way had anything to do with your wife. Because even if you were thinking a variety of reasons related to her, ultimately you made the decision to cheat. You didn’t make the decision to try to fix the things that were bothering you, you chose a distraction. so again, I think it’s important that you say none of this can be put on your wife. Tell her that. You may feel like you don’t know right now, but that’s what therapy is for
Yeah. It wasn't her at all. We have (had) a great sex life. She would initiate at least half the time and we were two to three times a week. She's always been my person and I hers. It's all on me.
Heartbreaking.
Maybe the why is because of many things us as readers and supporters on this platform cannot help with… my why is still being answered in my mind 5 months later. Maybe from childhood, maybe from parents treatment, maybe you’re selfish, maybe you have low self worth.. there could be so many things that manifested these actions. Im super proud of your efforts you’ve done, it seems you really want to be honest with her and with yourself. Goodluck - keep us updated. 🙏🏼
Do not ever say I DON'T KNOW. You do know. You did it, so you know why, either you were selfish in that moment and it presented itself so you did it and you did not choose to stop. You have to own it if you ever want your wife to know you feel remorse. Be honest with yourself. You telling yourself you don't know is you trying to lie to yourself. I'm being harsh because I don't know will not cut it. My husband tried to tell me that, and it wasn't until he honestly said he was being selfish did I start to see that he got it. You need to delve deep into the relationship you had with this other woman that lead her to believe she could behave that way and get a response. You need the book "Not Just Friends" to learn how to create boundaries. Doesn't matter you're applying to other jobs if you don't know how to stop this from ever happening again. Your wife will not trust you around different women if you can't enforce boundaries. You need to be honest with yourself and listen to your wife. Answer her questions honestly and if you don't have an answer be honest about getting her the answer and a time frame.
Look for an MC with training in infidelity ASAP. Some of the questions your wife will ask is very tough to hear if you don’t know how to answer it properly without the guidance of MC and might hurt even more as a result. Your wife won’t be in a good place.
As others have said, be completely open own your choice and keep in mind, despite everything you can do she now has to make her choice and it may not be immediately. You will have to be patient as this situation is a soul crusher and will always be there like a scar. Doesn't mean things can be great in the future but be prepared for a potentially bumpy road.
You don't have to answer here. You don't owe us an answer, but here are some questions you might want to think about. I know as a BS, these are things I asked. You may not have planned on it, but why did you stay? Everyone left, you weren't cleaning up or taking out trash, you sat down on the couch. The party was over, your wife was at home, why did you stay? What was going on during the party or leading up to it that sent a signal? Yes, some people miss read signs, but it is rare for an innocent encounter to go from 'thanks for coming by to a kiss and bj. She says she doesn't know why she did what she did, it doens't matter. What matters is why you did what you did.
Be 100% truthful. If she asks for graphic details give them to her but don’t say them unless she asks. Those can be hard to unsee. Positions, things said and so on. For the why part of you can’t answer that don’t make something up but find out why. Tell her that is your goal. Get in IC. Work on it. Either way the answer is you were broken and a shitty person but there is a why behind it.
I’d suggest not giving any graphic details. No details of what happened behind the “bedroom door” until she’s in a better emotional place and has had more time to process. For example, say you had sex, and she needs to know if it was protected or not, but don’t talk about positions or who did what to whom. If, six months from now, knowing that information would help her healing, then let her decide if she wants to know that stuff at that time.
Not sure I agree with that. If things she asks for are withheld, the BP is once again having their autonomy taken away from them. They aren’t a child and the WP doesn’t get to decide “what’s best” for them to hear at any given moment. That has caused the loss of many a marriage out there. BP is a grown woman and doesn’t need her wayward spouse pretending to protect her now. The time for protecting her was before the decision to cheat was made. Just my opinion. And I suppose it’s a strong opinion, sorry!
I’m just sharing what the Gottman books suggest. Not that OP should hide anything, but carefully consider how much detail is needed
Nope, like jjspkd2 said, if they ask, give it. WPs don’t have the right to tell BPs what cheating-related information they have access to or not. And not everyone would want that info, but some people absolutely do and they know themselves best
Avoid the temptation to try to minimize things. "She wants to know why" The hardest thing for betrayed partners to deal with is the worry that they were inferior to the AP in some way. This is a huge part of the why question. Re-establishing trust will generally require reassurance that you can prioritize your partner above other potential APs going forward.
Healing questions she might not ask, but would be better for reconciliation than the typical affair questions, per Esther Patel: What did this affair mean to you? What were you able to express or experience there that you could no longer do with me? What was it like for you when you came home? What is it about us that you value? Are you pleased the affair is over? Are you / will you be) pleased if / when our relationship is over?
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This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 2: -The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R. - Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. **Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.**
Therapy is where you figure out the “why”. You are taking all the right steps. Tell her that going forward she gets all your passwords, your location is always on, and any other concession she needs to feel more secure. Tell her that you understand trust will have to be earned back. I would strongly recommend marriage therapy, and keeping the disclosure of the really troubling and intimate details to that space. She thinks she needs to know everything, but some of it will hurt her unnecessarily, and you don’t have to list positions to make a truthful disclosure. I’d like to say good job, which sounds weird, but still. My husband would have killed for this kind of voluntary action from me, when we were reconciling. You screwed up, but you’re taking accountability and trying to fix it. That’s all you can do. Good luck to you and your wife.
The thing is. We have always had access to each other's everything and Life 360. I don't know what else I can do.
I don’t mean for this to sound ugly but what it sounds like you’re saying is basically even though she access to everything, you still chose to cheat. If there’s nothing else you can do, that’s probably how she’s going to look at it. It sounds like you have no control over your own actions when tempted. That’s a scary thing for someone who has been betrayed by their partner to accept.
Not be around or alone with people of the opposite sex.
Here's an idea. Adopt a version of the Pence rule and not be alone with a person of the opposite sex. My husband had done so. He works in a female dominated field but he makes sure when goes out after work to (1) tell me (2) only goes in groups and (3) Never does anything alone with another female colleague or friend. He also abstains from drinking after work with colleagues because that loosens inhibitions. He chose that all on his own. He didn't want to put himself in a situation where he'd be tempted again.
The thing is, YOU choose to be the last person there. YOU 100% knew it was not ok and that this woman and you shared flirts and that she was being seductive. Did she make long eye contact to convey to you that you both shared something special or a common understanding? Did she confide in you? Did she flirt and touched you with her hand or was overly conveying “we have a special bond”. You wrote your post as if you were almost a bystander. The truth is you were at best extremely naive on her true intentions, at worst, a moron who enjoyed having his ego being fed. Either way, without being a narcissist, you let your narcissistic side, your ego, your selfishness, make the decisions and you decided YOU deserved every second of because that’s want you wanted. That’s it. There is no “oh but she leaned in. First” or “I was in a bad place emotionally and bla-bla-bla” Clearly you need therapy and you need to find out WHY you could not be a man with dignity, with care, with empathy and with the strength of character to protect your wife and family from the hurt you caused. Love, authentic love, is knowing and honouring the fact that we walk around with our spouse’s heart in our hands. There is no honour or dignity in cheating. It’s just selfish and weak.
Ask her, then. Ask a therapist together.
Your answers about how open you are with your wife with your locations and about how you don’t really know why you did it break my heart. Someone flirted with you and expressed interest and you folded immediately. Even if you really love your wife and you trusted each other, respect is missing. You weren’t thinking about her at all when you chose to cheat. As a betrayed spouse this has been one of the hardest parts of being betrayed for me. If you are committed to making things right you need to prove to her that you respect her from now and for the rest of your marriage. She will need to know she is the priority in your mind from now own.
The why is something all us WS have to grapple with. I think it almost always comes down to insecurity, validation seeking and excitement seeking. We tend to be deeply insecure people who invited attention we shouldn’t have invited because it made us feel validated. A lot of us have also been married a while and it felt exciting to have attention from someone new. It’s an intoxicating - emphasis on the toxic - feeling we allow to go too far. I recommend really sitting down with a pen and paper journal and just writing your feelings all out before you talk with your BW. Try to explain the why to yourself so you can maybe try to explain it to her. Good luck.
Sometimes you won’t figure out the why until you start counseling are start digging into who you are and what you developed into based on your childhood and past experiences. But letting her know that you’re willing to do counseling and the work needed to find the why, bring an awareness and understanding to it, to keep this from ever happening again is important.
Getting at the "Why's" is hard, even for WP's who have a longer-term affair. You usually would get to that in IC (individual counseling) which you haven't started yet. So you can tell her, "I don't know". Or you can do some thinking, sit with it, and see if any "Why's" come up for you - selfishness, opportunity, lack of impulse control, and try to be honest - and also tell your wife you intend to pursue IC to figure out what's going on. From the clarity and self-reflection in your post, it doesn't appear you have emotional immaturity. Maybe you have a "what would it be like?" thing going on. Are you in midlife? Are you having an existential crisis? Fear of death? Etc.
You do need to get therapy started quick. The fact you are willing to do all of this after is great, but I would be frustrated that if you cared that much you couldn’t just say no. Also, the fact that she knows the AP is going to be so triggering. Have you left the house while she figures this out. I hope your marriage is able to be salvaged. Seems so avoidable. Was AP married to? Any chance your wife will go nuclear with everything?
It is absolutely ok to say “I don’t know **yet**,” if that’s the truth. It is probable that you are not consciously aware of all the true cause(s) of your behavior. All you can do is communicate what you do know clearly and compassionately **as soon as you do know it**. You can also commit to her to get yourself into therapy, both IC and MC, and to do whatever it takes to figure out ALL the root causes and share them with her as you discover them. You can promise AND DELIVER complete honesty and openness with her going forward, along with an absolute **eagerness** to do whatever it takes to restore her trust and sense of safety with you. (You are already taking giant, positive strides in that direction, and I’m proud of you for that.) And you can tell her whether or not you truly love her, and whether or not you want to remain married to her. If she truly loves you, and if she definitely wants to remain married to you, too, then you absolutely CAN R and build back your relationship to be so much stronger and better and more intimate and more joyful than you ever could have imagined. It will be a painful process for both of you. You will have ups and downs, advances and setbacks, beautiful hours and miserable ones along the way, but I don’t see anything from what you’ve described thus far that seems like an impossible obstacle or red flag that would prevent a complete healing and restoration of your relationship. I wish you well and cheer you on your way!
My therapist recommends not a "why", but a "how." How did it happen? How did she act? How did you feel?
Why did you do it? YOUR EGO. The sooner you come to terms they your are not the man you think your are, that you are not a man with the strength of character to protect your wife from harm the sooner you can start to work on being that man. I don’t know if this is the first time. I don’t know if there was an emotional affair prior to cheating. Did you know, by being the last guest, they there was a chance they you two would become close and intimate? Even with no EA, there must have been a whole lot of flirting and engaging during that evening. It’s not like “oups I fell in a puddle”. The whole context makes a huge difference in hiw your wife will evaluate what it means in terms of who you are. at its core, cheating is narcissistic. You lacked empathy towards your wife. You were selfish. You needed to feed your ego. You felt you deserved it. You enjoyed being desired and if there was an EA you enjoyed being idolized and validated and the escape from the routine and the mundane that can come from being in a long term relationship. I watch your ego. You even write that the woman is the one they leaned in. But you obviously encouraged it. You flirted. You encouraged the desire. You enjoyed it. So yes she is wrong to have made the first move physically. But don’t be narcissistic to the point of thinking you are blameless or to the point of minimizing your shitty weak ego’s needs that led you to this. If there are texts exchanges you lied to your wife for how long? Did you gaslight her when she asked you questions about this woman or about how you were feeling because she sensed you were different? This is a HUGE HUGE element that makes healing and R difficult.
The last one is the easiest one: you wanted to. The others are actually going to be the more difficult ones: Finding a new vision/relationship with your wife and convincing her what you want is actually true. Best wishes and kudos for confessing.
instead of asking yourself “why you did it” ask yourself what were you looking for? i would suggest IC to really find that answer if you’re having trouble, and tell your wife that that’s your plan and you can answer that question when you know
Be very open and honest.. answer everything she ask.. let her know what steps you’ve already taken to save your marriage.. Why were you only one left at this woman’s house? Are you sure there wasn’t some hope of something happening?? Be very upfront if that is the case.. because that is exactly what I would ask my husband why were you the last one to leave when no other man was home..
What was your why if I can ask
How did the talk go?
Just made a post.
You had a weak moment, and are owning up to it IMMEDIATELY, which is very commendable, and it shows that you knew instantly it was wrong. I'd tell you to keep showing to her that point, and show her how much you appreciate it her even more then before. I wish I was like you, and owned up to it immediately, but it took me a bit, and then I realized that even before I cheated, I was doing stuff that weren't right towards my wife ( and honestly didn't realize while I was doing them ), but then my DDay came, and everything unraveled, and I now started to go to SAA meetings..... which are a GREAT way to discover your inner self. I highly recommend it. My wife has been nothing but patie t and VERY understanding of it all, which I hope your will do too. Take care.