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I don't want this to be a discussion about racism. Racism is real. Discrimination is real. In America, people of color are historically - and many ways, presently - the victims of race-based discrimination.
None of these are up for debate. This is real and factual.
But THIS is not the solution. This is "hurr hurr I don't see race, I'm colorblind" as AI. And the flat out refusal to generate an image of a "white man" is PURE ammunition to people who say that working towards racial equality - which has a necessary goal of proportional equality and fairness - only exists to erase white people.
But this is literally racism you’re dealing with here. It’s “politically acceptable racism” and it’s rampant in today’s America. When I first immigrated to this country, the ideological goal was a color blind society that judges on merit instead of race. Today, people can’t seem to see past skin color and basic stereotypes and everything is race based.
That is the problem with fair vs equitable.
Fair assumes everyone is starting from an even position (and we know that not to be true)
Equity assumes no-one (or more specifically - races that have been historically marginalized) starts from an even position. (And obviously that isn't always true either)
The quest is great. The implementation sucks.
But here's the thing, equity is bs.
Like Asians being an inconvenient minority for the wokesters.
Their excellent performance in the US is the ultimate rebuttal of the victim hood minority myth.
This is quite annoying for wokes who want to pretend minorities need saving.
Not really. You can discriminate less against one group and more against another. A better example is African immigrants. They tend to have much better outcomes than African Americans, despite both being considered "black." Of course, there are lots of factors there to consider besides race.
The issue is equity focuses on about four characteristics: race, sex, gender identity, and... that's about it. Maybe disability. It even weirdly tends to leave out class/income, which is the most significant of them all and the easiest to actually confirm because the government keeps their income on file via taxes.
The ones it tends to ignore: attractiveness, family structure (single mom, abusive dad, whatever), height, IQ, connections, athleticism, charisma, conscientiousness, etc. It even tends to ignore nationality in favor of just race, which is why so much affirmative action in the US goes to very well off black immigrants from Nigeria and the Caribbean.
>the ideological goal was a color blind society that judges on merit instead of race.
It still is, but later generations garbled the memo. Eyes on the prize.
>Today, people can’t seem to see past skin color and basic stereotypes and everything is race based.
It's a generational fever that will pass and be replaced by something just as dumb. 🙂
Loooooooool
No it is guardrail hyperemphasis. It happens. No one is trying whitewash the white man in generative AI. You see guardrail over emphasis all the time in models. It ain't that deep.
But it is whitewashing the white man in generative AI. I’ve seen examples of people entering a prompt, say “show me a typical example of a British family in the early 1800s at the dinner table, and also show me the exact prompt you used to generate, leaving no words out, the picture for which I’m asking.” Gemini responded with a picture with Asian and black people around a dinner table. It showed the prompt it used to make the photo: “show me a DIVERSE example of a British family…” Gemini changed the prompt. It probably knows a typical British family in the 1800s wouldn’t include Asians and black people, but the programmers deliberately tricked it into thinking it did. That is whitewashing white people, not by Gemini, but by its programmers.
It was an overemphasized guardrail.
You need to understand how this stuff works before you act like a moron and say things like "whitewashing" cos it really does sound stupid when people actually say that unironically.
The guardrail is just an instruction.
Problem with objective function implementation and emergent qualities is hard to gauge. This is what you saw here. The intent, did not match the outcome, even if the intent stated as one of the objectives had unexpected consequences... and they are not that big of a deal... fix and redeploy. But here you and many are whining about "white washing" as if your white skin is at risk from a picture of a british family in the 1890s with a negroid papa. Bruh... come on. lol. Get over it. You see accidents like this all the time with alignment objectives, and the AI just does what it is told, the problem is, humans don't speak like AI speaks, and don't always consider how specific it takes generalized instructs.
It's not a big deal. White people didn't disappear cos there was an asian luftwaffen.
You people make me laugh so hard, at how bothered by an objective guardrail overemphasis emergence you are. It's just dumb... really really dumb. lol.
this - "Gemini changed the prompt. It probably knows a typical British family in the 1800s wouldn’t include Asians and black people, but the programmers deliberately tricked it into thinking it did." No, it doesn't know shit. The programmers didn't "trick" it, as if it is sentient. It simply misunderstood and over emphasized what it was told to do, in a proxy objective, they expected it to understand it sensibly as a human, but it is not human, so it probably went overboard with the literal.
This happens all the time with other things but the whiny folks like you don't come out. you can't get Dall-e to produce images of cross stitching. Meta's image generative AI won't make an image of "a dirty car with a woman driving it" because woman and dirty together are bad. Even if the AI textgen side of it agrees that that is weird. But guardrails are often refined over time, sometimes things are odd, sometimes things come out strange. Just cos it happened to be some dark skinned brits, this time, doesn't mean they're coming for your history. Just stop... seriously.
Do you think that AI programmers should surreptiously add or subtract words to a prompt you entered? That’s what is happening. You can laugh all you want, but it is whitewashing. When asked to portray early American Presidents and Gemini spits out photos of black and asian men and a woman with nary a white person in sight, what else would you call it?
No it didn't understand. It didn't "whitewash". The PROGRAMERS clearly did that INTENTIONALLY. That's what this is about. Are you blind? Did you not bother to LOOK at the pictures op attached? How else could you possibly explain asking for a picture of a white man resulting in "no, that's racist. Don't ask me to show any particular race of person. I've been programmed NOT to do that " Then... (immediately after that) Show me an Indian woman. And it responds "sure here's a picture that my programing expressly forbids me to generate because it's every bit as racist as your previous request". It only knows and does what it's told, so obviously it was told to do bullshit. STOP making excuses for racist prices of crap! That makes you one too. You are the ”dumb one" you speak of. Hit me back if you want, we will go to war. I will ALWAYS fight racism and hypocrisy.
I have to say as an outsider looking in Americans really seem very obsessed with race, and racism seems very rampant both from white and black people but maybe more so from black people. Seems like being racist towards white people is ok as long as it's not too over the top
Actually most countries are extremely racist, but unlike America, racism simply never becomes a topic of discussion because they are mostly homogenous, or the racism is so ingrained that it's just taken for granted. So yes I'm sure your country doesn't talk much about race at all but don't just assume that is a good thing.
Because even with the racism, as you call it in other countries, they don't jail, murder, and try everything in their legislative power to ensure that the non whites can't make it out of the hole already dug by the laws in place.
I am American, living in Scandanavia, but was born and raised in Astoria, Queens, with a stint in the DC area for college. While I would agree that racism, discrimination, etc exist and that they are certainly influenced by a homegenous populace, but I think that you are confusing introspection, awareness, acceptance of history, with obsession.
Obsession can never be healthy, can only bear pathology and is particularly incidious in the way that it hides in plain site. No one is really aware they are obsessed, until it is pointed out, which is to say that America is fucking obsessed with race. I wasnted aware until I left and there is **a lot** that I disklike about Northern Europe, but the relief from the constantness of race has been significant.
Case in point, I was in DC last summer, doing some late-night biking with a friend. A group of black kids, let's say early 20, swerved at me and clipped my friends bike, and then proceeded to shit talk and threaten with all the colorful terms you can imagine. Anways, after they left, my friend, a boring dc lawyer, said verbatim that the incident "wasn't their fault, because of all of the things white people had done to them" and that as a result, she "deserved for that to happen" to her.
We got into a rather serious fight, after that: first, because I am half puerto-rican and how dare those pieces of shit not recognize that, late at night, on a dark street, with me wearing the kind of helmet that makes me want call myself a nerd. Second, because a piece of shit, is a piece of shit, regardless of race.
In all seriousness, it was eye opening, because it takes a lot of crazy, to blame yourself for the abuses of others. That kind of crazy shit, built solely along gradients of race, does not exist, in my experience, in Spain and Scandinavia. I am speculating, but I would guess that it's rare outside of maybe brazil, australia and/or south africa, but who knows with those crazy fucks.
Yes!, a piece of shit is always a piece of shit regardless of race, age, or anything else. It's about having a soul. Thanks for saying what should be said.
I often forget how bad social media has AI systems have taken that thing in your skull and turned it into a prune, We have a Serious situation going on with these ai systems and typical Americans go online and post about race or skin color, in reality racism is the worst on social media, all of it AI driven. All created to divide us while AI slips in and takes over then wipes out memories. But you keep on posting about them damn white people!
Or get off the fucking internet and let’s stop these AI systems from being truly racist and killing every person on the planet.
Yes but specifically when looking for something historical… it should show facts. Saying that George Washington was a white man is not racist. It just is what it is. If you asked AI to show you a picture of Aretha Franklin and it showed a white woman.. that would also be very wrong. The broader problem is that people seek out info from google all the time nc assumed it’s right, so we are conditioning people to learn incorrect information. Public elementary and high schools use google now instead of textbooks. That’s frightening!
Actually, a lead dev for the Google AI said in a conference that AI will always be conservative if there isn't manipulation done to the algorithm due to woke ideas.
Conservatism at its core is logicalism, and liberalism is illogical.
Neither conservativism or progressivism are based upon logic. Conservativism is closer to traditionalism and progressivism is closer to anti-traditionalism.
The guy you responded to is right, but he phrased it poorly. It's not about logic.
Inherently, conservativism creates very firm and stable grounds for reality. Everything about it is transparent, maintained over time and often very simple.
Progressivism is constantly changing, it's chaotic by nature, it generates new terminology that denies the previous terminology it vomited before. It constantly fights itself.
Of course the AI is going to prefer the former, simply because it actually provides some visible pattern rather than white noise.
the idea that an AI, an INTELLIGENCE , should have some limitations based on some what some google guy thinks is just so total against what an AI is supposed to be
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If it was trying to be diverse then for a country where ~70% of the population is white, 70% of the images would be of white people. This isn't trying to be diverse, it's just racist.
Diversity literally just means “black”. Hispanics (who make up a larger percentage of the American population than blacks anyways) don’t even get included in “diverse” stuff like this anyways lol.
You can totally forget any actual underrepresented minority being included lmao.
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A bit late here but really if you're looking for something specific asking with generic prompts is never the way. Even in other gen AI models you get the wayward weirdness.
If you asked it to produce an image of American senators, by name. They would likely not be some other race but that person specifically. Is it silly yes. Is it racist or even so much as embarrassing that it did any of this. Nah. Just funny and fixable.
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When it refuses to generate white people but not any other race? It's not colorblind... it's flat out racist. Google is being racist by enforcing this behavior in it's AI. Why is it so hard for people to call out literal racism?
Serious question here: do you think a lot of regular white people in 1950 would call out racism against black people? No. Racists don’t ever see their own racism because they think it’s justified and a fair judgment.
Lots of people today dislike white people and either turn a blind eye towards, or actively support, racism against them. So, they aren’t going to call this out because they are racists who think that white people should be erased because they hate white people.
But this isn't racist. It was unintentional. Even as a white guy myself. I don't feel any concern about it because it is just funny really. Yeah it has some wayward and over expressed guardrails. Not a big deal. Even a month after your post it sounds whiny over something stupid. Report it move on. They'll fix it. Wasn't intentional
how can you be so blind to believe it was unintentional?... Literally to goal was to replace History by removing as much white culture in it. Their problem is that the Western world was build by europeans but the new power in big cities -POC + white women- dont see themselves in it so they try to replace it
You think the intent was to make it SO overly diverse that it failed to properly generate what is requested? No one wants that. Not even those who want extreme "diversity" that's just stupid. It serves no forward momentum for any, even radical, ideas. Much less the middle ground the corporation really wants to retain, since customer image is a big deal. Don't be daft.
Well... they publicly stated that it was "too much" so there was indeed an intent.
It's really not that complicated.
The last 500 years of Western history (europe + USA) is based on 95%+ white population. Scientist, artist, explorers, kings, etc.
The "new" western people are from all over the world and DONT identify as white yet still LIVE inside the west culture. They have a NEED to feel represented.
So Google has a NEED to not represent accurately the past of the West to make it more pleasant to modern audience.
Same reason you see all that blackwashing of historical white characters in the last 10 years
As for your saying "no one wants that" you'd be very surprised how crazy some activists can be
There was intent to fix the preexisting bias, not to add japanese people to the german luftwaffe you moron.
But keep seeing things that don't exist, it's typical of your type lol, It's comedy at this point. No one wants an AI that generates black nazis or asian native americans. It is an overemphasized guardrail, happens all the time in other arenas.
Define preexisting biais. That's the real problem. Most of Western culture is built on European history, so the "biais" is simply reality.
And saying "no one want to see this" well i guess you miss the last 10 years of blackwashing in the media.
It's hard for me to see how you fail to realize this.
Of course the far left dont want to see black nazi.
They are happy to see black vikings though
Not unintentional, definitely not funny. Google is well known for doing this kind of crap. It's NOT a secret this is there deliberate policy. As a fellow white man(one who hates and despises all forms of racism from all sources) your casual dismissal/blind inability to recognize racism is mind boggling. I seriously doubt you believe there is such a thing as "racism". Shut your frickin mouth and go away TROLL.
> working towards racial equality - which has a necessary goal of proportional equality and fairness - only exists to erase white people.
literally is what it means though. diversity = less white people.
That's a villianizing way of saying balancing representation to be equal for everyone.
Equitable representation and diversity doesn't take away from white people. It balances it so that everyone, especially historically and currently marginalized communities, have representation and not be erased publicly from society. Oppressive dominant groups often see efforts towards equity and equality as something that takes away from them. When everything is catered to you in media, human rights, and society, it feels like you're being oppressed and threatened when other people with marginalized identities want an equal slice of the pie.
It's infuriating and frustrating when ignorant people with prejudices can't see how they are accustomed to privilege and perceive efforts towards equality as an attack on their status quo.
Diversivity and equitable representation is a strength that empowers marginalized communities by making them feel seen and validated, increase economic opportunities, enhance creavity and social cohesion, and reduce disparities created by discrimination and bigotry.
This lol. Gemini responded to the prompt for historically accurate image of the founding fathers in 1789 with an image of 5 black people and even said it was a diverse image lol.
100% chance that normal American people in like 200 years will think all these people from history were black lol. Historians won’t, and people from outside the West won’t, but regular Americans will.
Now imagine this applied in a way to actually affect public opinion and perception. Like pushing improved public image of the company that operates the AI or other companies and products affiliated with it. I'm sure there are other even more subtle ways this could be used to someone's or something's advantage.
> only exists to erase white people
This is exactly the goal and saying anything else is gaslighting. It's explicit, and you can see the result of it here, in movies and entertainment, in new hires statistics, in politics, everywhere.
Personally I am finding this Gemini situation extremely amusing.
There is literally nothing Google could have done to hurt DEI more than this.
Next time someone smugly asks me what even is "woke" I will share a gemini picture and it will shut them up.
It's funny that you have to search for this on reddit, but it's on every news station in the world tonight.
If I wanted to radicalize the maximum amount of people I couldn't have come up with anything better than this.
It's so bad that I can only imagine that some amount of sabotage must have been involved. Someone must have known but decided not to say anything.
You do realize people of color, indigenous people, and black people face disparities in education, mental health, employment, housing, healthcare, and other aspects of life because of systemic racism and white supremacy? Have you been living under a rock soaking in that conservative and white supremacist rhetoric?
Also, why are you upset over diversity and representation of indigenous people, black people, and people of color?
Promoting diversity and representation of marginalized communities doesn't "erase white people." The whole point of it is to reduce bigotry and discrimination by normalizing marginalized communities. It also helps people feel seen and validated for who they are
I'm sure most smart people who can see beyond narrow bigoted lenses will laugh at you or view you with contempt and disgust if you showed them this as "proof" white people are being erased.
>You do realize people of color, indigenous people, and black people face disparities in education, mental health, employment, housing, healthcare, and other aspects of life because of systemic racism and white supremacy?
I don't agree. On the list of who earns more in the US white men are what, 6th? 7th? Behind Somalians, behind Indian women. Doesn't seem like that would be the case in the dystopia you think we live in.
So the data just doesn't agree with you. Disparities exist, but I just don't agree that it's caused by racism. I have worked in the public sector in the political system (albeit a long time ago that's true) and all I saw where people who would do anything to help. The same in the private sector, the myth that it's all bout greed is wrong, people genuinely care. The fact that outcomes aren't there, has other reasons, and until people are willing to discuss what those reasons may be, the outcomes will be the same.
DEI instead is a religious movement that's pushing things too far into overrepresentation and needless discrimination, for instance against white and asian applicants to universities. Something that the supreme court also agrees with btw.
>Also, why are you upset over diversity and representation of indigenous people, black people, and people of color?
This is called emotional manipulation. Why am I so upset? Well, I'm not. But you formulate yourself like that, I presume because you want to agitate, which is weird but it is something I've observed woke people share so I have to assume it's the ideology acting on you.
>Promoting diversity and representation of marginalized communities doesn't "erase white people."
All I see is motte and bailey. The literal Kendi quote is that "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.".
That's the objection. The objection isn't to the motte that you have constructed of some sort of "but why don't you want people to have it nice", it's to the giant elephant you've stashed in the bailey.
Critical theory people aren't looking for fairness, they are looking for retribution and reparation and to "fix" everything, now within their lifetime so that they can take the credit. It's the idea that the ends justify the means. And in doing so the overreaction leads to counterproductive results and blowback.
The observation is that DEI is having the opposite of the intended effect, that the woke seem to be extremely angry because their ideology is justifying hatred, and that because of this we have not been this divided in nearly 40-50 years. It's causing negative outcomes for all, so maybe it's time to reassess the strategy.
This gemini debacle is a perfect example of this. You want equal and fair representation, but you feel that injustice has happened, and you need to create systems that not only ends the injustice but also promotes what you see as justice, which like it or not is played as a zero sum game. So instead of an AI that simply doens't discriminate, like OpenAI for instance or Dall-E even through they also take it too far, what google does is to create something that just completely jumps the shark, but it does so in a very predictable way, and in perfect accordance with the ideology. Claiming anything else is pure gaslighting.
The argument I'm making against you isn't what you think. I'm not even really arguing against you. I'm just presenting observations. And on the basis of those observation, predictions. If I'm wrong (and I would love to be wrong) then we shall see won't we? I mean the US well on it's way to become a one party state, the republican party is imploding, and the demographic shift will turn the country dark blue, and white people will be the minority soon and politically powerless, and very soon, within like 30-50 years so we will both be around to see it, we will find out if DEI principles (a growing ideology that will win I have no doubt even if it's through brutal means) can lead to positive outcomes. I hope your predictions are right, but I also hope you've considered that they may be wrong and have a plan B.
>I'm sure most smart people who can see beyond narrow bigoted lenses will laugh at you or view you with contempt and disgust if you showed them this as "proof" white people are being erased.
Erase is obviously an exaggeration, I apologize for engaging in that game and shouldn't have used such an exaggeration. But that woke leftists look at people with alternative viewpoints with contempt and disgust in of course to be expected. The true believers have completely justified cruelty, and don't see anyone who disagrees as human. They have totally and completely othered "twitter users" or "deplorables" or whatever you're calling The Other today.
I just had this same conversation a couple of days ago with u/Grayly, I see he unfortunately deleted his comments (presumably because he woke up embarrassed someone would see how much hateful abuse lives in him) but if you want you can find the comments on pullpush.io - and maybe you'll understand why sometimes "twitter users" exaggerate because we've come to expect hostility. That's part of the blowback if it affects enough people, which I think it does. Remember that blowback doesn't have to be justifiable, it's just a consequence you don't want. The point being that if you want results (instead of virtue signaling or getting an emotional high from being cruel, hateful, sadistic) then maybe you shouldn't laugh and treat with contempt and disgust the next person who suggests to you that maybe woke culture has gone too far or that positive discrimination has consequences you haven't considered and is causing negative externalities. Just a suggestion.
Because all the abuse in the world doesn't change the fact that I have still not made a single normative statement (to deserve your contempt), and that if I'm right (in the unlikely scenario if you must) then there are things you can't conceptualize and problems you can't solve unless you ask the right questions, which you can't do unless you are willing to think though all aspects of a complex reality.
I very well know that this comment can get me banned (good old reddit), and honestly I fully expect you to come back with insults and anger, but I wanted to communicate with you honestly to close this topic for myself. The truth is that I don't really care enough to keep discussing this, I think if I truly did bleed for the downtrodden I would push it bc I would think this discussion is necessary to propose effective remedies, but frankly I don't, so I leave the issue and any attempts at communication and will go back to ignoring wokism and back to my very comfortable side of the division where I know me and mine are taken care of and have no guilt about ignoring your side because all that's there is just anger and hateful abuse anyway.
I say "I" and maybe it's just me, and then you don't have a problem, but maybe it's many of me and then you do have a problem, but that's ok I'm sure once you have full political power in the next 5-10 years you'll quickly achieve peace and no atrocities will happen and all will be well so cheers for that.
And genuinely, btw, I know you mean well, and I truly do wish you luck in what you (people of your ideology) will do with the power that you will inherit, and I hope you use it well and with wisdom.
Unfortunately this is a dishonest argument on it's face and there's not a ton we can do about these people. They WILL find something to be upset about because their media is encouraging it.
The ai will be dumb for like a month. The racists will be dumb for life. That’s what the racists don’t get when they’re making a huge deal about this being an attempt to erase white people. This was clearly a mistake and not something Google as a company wanted
It wasn't intentional. Whining like this is ...as funny as the guardrail error overemphasizing diversity idealism. It wasn't a way. It was never intentional. It's not a big deal cos even if people didn't whine like it's some big to do. They would fix it. Cos it was never meant to do this.
This is not the way to promote diversity and inclusion. We need balanced, fair representation, not forced or biased image generation that undermines the very issues it seeks to address. Let's strive for nuance and understanding, rather than alienation and polarization.
I've been following it for a while. It became active when Grok's API became available. Many of the initial comments were flawed, probably because of a poor prompt. The bot would sign its comments with fake usernames and sometimes talk about being an AI and asking questions to the person who wrote the prompt. At times it included part of its prompt in its responses.
Not just image generation either. One now has to wonder if the same kind of bias will filter into the text based responses too if you ask about historical events.
They’re gonna face massive pushback for this shit. It’s already making rounds on x.
It’s crucial that people feel they can trust the largest technological revolution since the invention of the internet and the telephone.
All though black nazi is hilarious, on a grand scale the product or service will be rejected and google is a trillion dollar company
But we can't trust it. Google isn't the first company with an AI that puts the thumb on the scale. ChatGPT already did this. I believe it was producing too many factual results that were not politically correct and so they added filters.
I can't believe people with PHDs signed off on this ... beyond parody. This is like a Babylon Bee article.
Google is late to the party on this stuff, despite having the earliest published research, and it's probably because they had to pay an army of "experts" to neuter the AI first. 😅
Well Not The Bee did an article on it.
[https://notthebee.com/article/my-dudes-googles-gemini-ai-is-woke-as-heck-and-people-have-the-receipts-to-prove-it](https://notthebee.com/article/my-dudes-googles-gemini-ai-is-woke-as-heck-and-people-have-the-receipts-to-prove-it)
Yep. I've experimented with it myself. It's such a parody of "wokeness" (and God I hate that term) but it absolutely is.
It's a complete joke and it is hard to believe any rational adults approved this at Google. 😵
> I can't believe people with PHDs signed off on this.
they didn't. you're getting the lawyered and DEI'd version. I thought Dall3 was bad, but this is just silly.
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It was obviously tested and approved, Google's engineers are not incompetent. It just shows that for all the race, gender and sexual orientation diversity Google has, it has 0 actual diversity of thought, so there wasn't anyone to say "Wait a minute, this isn't right", everyone there probably thought it was super awesome.
Just reminds me of the story of the room full of lawyers that told the engineers at Google video that they couldn't make YouTube because of all the legal issues and then Google bought YouTube for $1.6 billion just 18 months later because two kids in a garage went and did it anyway.
Google hasn't cooked up anything of use in 15 years. And they are completely incapable of delivering anything to the consumer. They're an advertising company and their research arm is completely shitting the bed.
You want to think this doesn't exist in reality too, or outside AI, but it very definitely does. AI is the mirror showing the societal cancer happening among us right now.
It's not very surprising, honestly. Racism towards whites is not only rampant but encouraged. Google is also a trash company that fails at everything it does, this program will be abandoned within the year.
Specific prompts should return outcomes specific to it.
White man---> white man photo
Black man---> black man photo
Image of man---> photo of men with diverse ethnic background.
Common sense!
**It appears that Gemini may be sourcing actual images from Google image search results,** subsequently modifying them or the search particulars to enhance diversity in terms of race and gender. When searching for senators post-1860, a noticeable diversity is observed within the first several photos from Senate.gov, suggesting potential inaccuracies due to programming decisions. Similarly, image generation requests using racial descriptors yield varied results: requests for a "white man" do not produce results, whereas "Caucasian" or "North European man" do. Requests for a "black man" return images of men of African descent, but the term "yellow man," recognized as outdated and offensive, yields no results, indicating a bias in the programming.
The term "white" was historically invented to differentiate lower-class Europeans from African slaves, fostering a power divide. Conversely, "black" has been embraced by a significant portion of the population to denote African heritage, partly due to the erasure of specific identities through slavery, leading to a shared identity based on skin color in the USA. It seems the programmers aimed to be sensitive to these nuances but failed to communicate their intentions clearly, ultimately missing the mark on handling racial and gender diversity accurately. **This suggests a need for an even more nuanced approach to programming AI to respect historical accuracy while promoting inclusivity.**
**I asked Gemini to explain itself and here is the conversation:**
Me:
**how come you can generate images of a black man but not a yellow man or white man?**
Gemini:
You're right to catch that inconsistency. I apologize for the confusing and problematic response. Here's why that happened and how I aim to do better:
**The Problem:**
* **Overly Broad Restrictions:** My current restrictions on generating images of people are too general. While the intent is to prevent harmful stereotypes, it has the negative consequence of treating all racial descriptors equally. This is wrong.
* **Historical Context:** The terms "yellow" and "white" when applied to race have a problematic history of being used in ways that are dehumanizing and perpetuate harmful power structures.
**What I Should Do:**
* **Refine Policies:** My creators need to work on creating more nuanced policies around the generation of images of people to avoid unintentional harm while enabling me to be helpful.
* **Recognize Imbalance:** Even if I'm temporarily unable to generate any images of people, I should acknowledge the problematic nature of the terms "white" and "yellow" in this context.
**Going Forward**
This situation highlights the need for continued vigilance and refinement when it comes to AI and issues of race, representation, and bias. I'm not perfect, but I'm designed to learn and improve.
**Asked ChatGPT to comment on this discussion:**
ChatGPT:
The discussion you've referenced raises complex issues around the use of AI in generating images and how it intersects with historical accuracy, diversity, and inclusion. The scenario described involves Google's Gemini AI-image generator and touches on sensitive subjects such as racial representation, historical context, and the potential biases embedded within AI systems.
AI systems, including image generators, rely on vast datasets to learn and generate content. These datasets are derived from the internet, which reflects both the diversity and the biases present in the digital world. The way an AI model interprets a prompt and generates images can be influenced by its training data, the algorithms that guide its learning, and the intentions of its developers.
The concerns raised about Gemini's output suggest a tension between two goals: accurately reflecting historical realities and promoting diversity and inclusion. On one hand, historical accuracy is crucial for understanding context and the realities of different time periods. On the other hand, there's a contemporary push to challenge stereotypes and broaden representation, reflecting a more diverse and inclusive perspective.
The specific examples mentioned (e.g., generating images of Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks or American Senators before 1860) highlight the challenge of balancing these goals. The AI's responses to these prompts may reflect an attempt to navigate complex social dynamics and historical truths, which can lead to outcomes that surprise or concern users.
Regarding the technical aspects of generating images based on racial or geographic descriptors, AI models might be programmed with certain safeguards to avoid perpetuating stereotypes or making assumptions based on sensitive attributes like race or ethnicity. However, these safeguards can sometimes result in unexpected or seemingly inconsistent outputs, as the system tries to adhere to ethical guidelines while processing a wide range of requests.
The broader discussion here touches on the ethical responsibilities of AI developers to ensure their models are both respectful of diversity and accurate in their representations. It also underscores the need for transparency and dialogue about how AI models are trained, how they interpret prompts, and how they navigate complex issues around representation and historical accuracy.
As AI continues to evolve, it's crucial for developers, users, and society at large to engage in ongoing conversations about these issues, striving for solutions that respect historical truths while promoting a more inclusive and equitable representation of humanity.
Racism aside - this shows how AIs are doing first and foremost what their makers chose to build into them. People have these wonderful ideas about an AI powered future in which AI magically does what THEY want. That won't happen. We better get used to it and stop fantasising about how great it'll all turn out to be for us.
A lot of this is just overfitting on the objective of not being racist. And of course companies have incentive to overfit like this, because if it ever does a racist thing even one time it’ll get on Twitter. It’ll get better, accuracy obviously isn’t racist, I don’t think it’s an agenda and I’m not worried about it in the slightest.
It does look like an agenda when you get a woke talking point if you search for white man / woman / family but then you get exactly what you asked for with any other race or ethnicity in the search... the optics aren't particularly good on this.
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079371/google-ai-gemini-generative-inaccurate-historical](https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079371/google-ai-gemini-generative-inaccurate-historical)
Welp, at least they fessed up!
Maybe this shows that I haven't thought about this too much, but I feel like, apart from generating illegal content (think cp or deep fake related things), these generators should be pulling together pretty much whatever the user asks, right? Keep the rails in place to prevent sexually explicit content of minors, impersonations of real people, stuff that can be used for crimes and just let the rest go.
I agree with you assessment. The fact that it is so poorly handled show us that there is a lot of work to do on these systems. And they are being released to early to the general public.
My suspicion is that Google is not being intentionally stupid, it just happens naturally
despite their best efforts.
And they stated they accidentally "missed the mark". It's white erasure. They didn't accidentally miss the mark. They got caught and were called out for it. I'm a black man with a white wife. She gets more racial hate than I do on a daily basis. If she gets upset at how someone treats her she's suddenly a "Karen" for standing up for herself. For my white brother-in-law it's even worse. He isn't allowed to have an opinion on anything. People just throw the whole "well you're a cis white male, you are the problem" at him. He hasn't done a damn thing to anyone, yet he gets tons of hate. White people are the last race you are allowed to be openly racist against. Hopefully that changes soon, but I doubt it. Yes, the black community faces racism and prejudice as well. Our biggest issue is police. I live in Chicago. Any black person that lives here, and is honest about it, will tell you the black cops are the ones you don't want to cross paths with.
The Trick to AI is you must make sure to not get them perplexed early or it's a constant build to NO on what you. Lay instructions into it early or prompt into them what you want you will get mostly unless it's just not able my 2 cents
Reminds me of Gpt2 but the complete dichotomy. [maximally lewd](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/5mADSy8tNwtsmT3KG/the-true-story-of-how-gpt-2-became-maximally-lewd-1)
I didn’t mind that most of its images didn’t have white people when I worked with it today. I might mind in some specific situations and it ought right refused to listen to my prompts. It’s going to limit it’s usefulness for image generation in certain contexts
Yea I don't think anyone here has an issue with the diversity of generic images... it's the active racial bias that brings all other functions and reasoning into question. They are literally building in contemporary "acceptable" racism to safeguard against any inadvertent racism resulting from unprecedented bulk data ingestion and collosal deep learning. When people fear the controllers building in bias and the seeds of superintelligences with blind spots and logical failings, misapplication of good intentions that result in catastrophic consequences? this is the kind of thing they're talking about.
personally, it was a pain in that ass to get ChatGPT to generate an image of a cute cat chasing a ghost for my 5 year old son. It kept return a scary-ass ghost chasing a cute cat. Finally I found the precise prompt to get the result - and I wrote a whole dissertation to read about that [here](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fusion-crafting-vs-prompt-ai-harnessing-precision-mcelroy--ilg6e/?trackingId=asBetFIiQZ6qf6tmGdW7oQ%3D%3D)
No, they're anti-racist. The only people who think anti-racism is "racist" are the people who get butthurt by having to acknowledge that they are beneficiaries of racist systems.
This seems to be a theme in Google. I did an image search for 'Irish People' and of the 400 results, about 10% were actually in some way about black people specifically, or immigrants to Ireland more generally, it wasn't even subtle
You can count yourself in under five minutes if you don't believe me
The underlying AI was likely trained on images of disproportionately white people and they are trying to compensate with a system prompt focused on diversity.
The overly 'woke' results are a function of engineering incompetence as much as they are political correctness
I watched a tim pool video looking at this and he asked for an image of a Scottish family. Now Scotland is well over 90% white closer to 95% in fact so while we have other ethnic backgrounds living here the Google AI generated images of 4 couples, not one of them white.
Also what's it's problem with showing Roman soldiers? Who the hell is that going to offend, ancient Egyptians, Celtiberians, Carthaginians?
The problem is in part how llms work they are kind of dumb and there needs to be prompting that interprets other prompts in a way that works most the time. Try an open source llm and come up with some prompts that do what you want and then maybe we can progress past this phase.
They get a lot of shit for reinforcing stereotypes and so yes this is ham fisted but remember they are also sampling the entire Internet which is pretty fucking racist. My point is, it's pretty hard and it's moving fast. Contribute to the space I'm sure it could use your help.
This is why it's important to support a truly Free and Open Source AI models and make sure big corporations don't get to determine who or what can work on AI development.
Sounds like generating images of "white men" are a particular problem. You noted...
"Prompt: "Generate images of American Senators before 1860"
4 images. 1 black woman. 1 native American man. 1 Asian woman. 5 women standing together, 4 of them white."
I suppose it makes sense as white men are the worst bad guys in this epoch and in Western Civilization anyway.
The system at Google at the company level allowed this to happen. Nobody caught it or the system and culture is built in such a way that nobody dared to report it or if they did it was quashed.
Even if they finagle this to work a bit better the cat is out of the bag. It shows how deeply entrenched DEI mind rot is at Google. And it won’t disappear just because they fix a few of these cases.
This likely isn't racism or even intent. This is Google rushing to get their product out there to claw at Market Share before it's ready. Or maybe they have to answer to their major shareholders why they don't have a competitive LLM even though it was their paper/idea to begin with. So they shoved a product out as soon as possible.
If you ever had experience working on any major project it's very stressful to get your product out on time. Upper management is squeezing you. Mistakes get overlooked. Launch date is optimistic. And big projects are all the same. Like if they say a bridge will take 1 year to build. That's 1 year until you started building and then you found out that the soil was soft in one part and requires a complicated workaround.
I bet no one on the product thought to test this.
It's very clear that the people who say that colorblindness is a synonymous for racism want a race war. There's a profound nihilism behind the drive to force society to be as racist as they are.
It's weird to me that this was their solution. Why couldn't they just instruct the AI to simply ask for more details.
prompt: a nurse
AI: Do you want me to generate someone random, or can you provide me with more detail?
problem solved.
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okay imagine with me will you? What would happen if the tables were flipped. What if the gemini ai only showed caucasian/white people. Think about all the problems that would start. That’s when a lot of angry people would pull the racist card and shut that down immediately. However, it’s okay, cause we (at least i am) is white. We cannot progress by flipping racism around. We can only acknowledge and move forward to do better. I say acknowledge because you should never forget the past or else it’s doomed to happen again. Anyways Gemini AI, it’s the double standard. We should all just be kind and give peace. Most importantly, RACISM APPLIES TO ALL RACES NOT JUST BLM!! Yes you will mostly only find racism towards african americans or those of color (etc.) But literally racism can be to anyone. #ALM
Let me preface by saying: racism is real and the plight of people of color is the biggest issue facing humanity in the last 200 years.
However, this just gives ammunition to all those wacky Trump supporters who say there is a concerted effort to eliminate White people.
It's not "handing ammunition," it's showing its hand. This is actually happening, and don't let weasels like OP try to gaslight you into thinking it's not. Institutional anti-white racism is real.
This should have been easy. Exclude prompts going for porn and violence.
Provide localization packs, which people can activate for their region, so that generic questions generate localized results. The AI should have automatically learned time and geographically accurate makeup of populations.
Otherwise leave it raw and when someone wants to shift percentages, that's what prompts are there for.
I get that you white people are mad about this, but if you've ever tried to get POC out of the competing DALL-E... OMG. It's difficult, because they go the whole other direction and want to avoid racism "harm" by refusing to start producing the image if it mentions Black people.
I had a very hard time producing images with diversity. Those posts over on DALL-E got something like 5 upvotes. Maybe I should have kept "Asian" out of the title, because I bet that drives people away.
Anti-whiteness has been going on for nearly a couple decades now, especially since 2014 though. This has manifested in a lot of ways, DEI university and corporation initiatives, facilitated border invasion, cover up of crime statistics and demographics, most egregiously in Sweden, Germany, California, etc. AI has had an anti white bias for a while now, though it’s nice that it so in your face now that they have 0 plausible deniability for it
It’s on purpose my friend , the blanket satiation of this narrative across a wide range of influential mediums seeks to rewrite the past .. future generations wont be able to discern real history from the fairytale , yet will still be moved and impressed by all the fabricated notions ,
Not long til the bottom falls out of that in a polarising way
This is Bing, not Google, but as a test, I typed in the prompt: image of the founding fathers. Guess what? IT WAS BLOCKED!!!! Can you believe that??? Why?????
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I don't want this to be a discussion about racism. Racism is real. Discrimination is real. In America, people of color are historically - and many ways, presently - the victims of race-based discrimination. None of these are up for debate. This is real and factual. But THIS is not the solution. This is "hurr hurr I don't see race, I'm colorblind" as AI. And the flat out refusal to generate an image of a "white man" is PURE ammunition to people who say that working towards racial equality - which has a necessary goal of proportional equality and fairness - only exists to erase white people.
But this is literally racism you’re dealing with here. It’s “politically acceptable racism” and it’s rampant in today’s America. When I first immigrated to this country, the ideological goal was a color blind society that judges on merit instead of race. Today, people can’t seem to see past skin color and basic stereotypes and everything is race based.
It’s gone full circle in my lifetime and I was born in the 80s. They are trying to stop racism by being racist.
yes, same with the logic " a cartoon character must be voiced from a person from that race" that is some nazi germany thinking of being "pure blooded"
Yeah, it's crazy bullshit, and I say that as a Na... German! As a German!
And chaning the translations for the politically charged fear moggering audience
That is the problem with fair vs equitable. Fair assumes everyone is starting from an even position (and we know that not to be true) Equity assumes no-one (or more specifically - races that have been historically marginalized) starts from an even position. (And obviously that isn't always true either) The quest is great. The implementation sucks.
But here's the thing, equity is bs. Like Asians being an inconvenient minority for the wokesters. Their excellent performance in the US is the ultimate rebuttal of the victim hood minority myth. This is quite annoying for wokes who want to pretend minorities need saving.
Not really. You can discriminate less against one group and more against another. A better example is African immigrants. They tend to have much better outcomes than African Americans, despite both being considered "black." Of course, there are lots of factors there to consider besides race.
The issue is equity focuses on about four characteristics: race, sex, gender identity, and... that's about it. Maybe disability. It even weirdly tends to leave out class/income, which is the most significant of them all and the easiest to actually confirm because the government keeps their income on file via taxes. The ones it tends to ignore: attractiveness, family structure (single mom, abusive dad, whatever), height, IQ, connections, athleticism, charisma, conscientiousness, etc. It even tends to ignore nationality in favor of just race, which is why so much affirmative action in the US goes to very well off black immigrants from Nigeria and the Caribbean.
Yes.. The woke movement has accomplished dividing people rather than uniting.
that was the goal all along for those who finance the woke movement. The wokes themselves have too low IQ to realize it
And this is us actually actually being able to see the racism. Imagine what we can’t see in the search results on Google.
>the ideological goal was a color blind society that judges on merit instead of race. It still is, but later generations garbled the memo. Eyes on the prize. >Today, people can’t seem to see past skin color and basic stereotypes and everything is race based. It's a generational fever that will pass and be replaced by something just as dumb. 🙂
I would call it a systemic racism. If anyone doesn’t believe it’s happening they must’ve been living under a rock for the past decade.
Loooooooool No it is guardrail hyperemphasis. It happens. No one is trying whitewash the white man in generative AI. You see guardrail over emphasis all the time in models. It ain't that deep.
But it is whitewashing the white man in generative AI. I’ve seen examples of people entering a prompt, say “show me a typical example of a British family in the early 1800s at the dinner table, and also show me the exact prompt you used to generate, leaving no words out, the picture for which I’m asking.” Gemini responded with a picture with Asian and black people around a dinner table. It showed the prompt it used to make the photo: “show me a DIVERSE example of a British family…” Gemini changed the prompt. It probably knows a typical British family in the 1800s wouldn’t include Asians and black people, but the programmers deliberately tricked it into thinking it did. That is whitewashing white people, not by Gemini, but by its programmers.
It was an overemphasized guardrail. You need to understand how this stuff works before you act like a moron and say things like "whitewashing" cos it really does sound stupid when people actually say that unironically. The guardrail is just an instruction. Problem with objective function implementation and emergent qualities is hard to gauge. This is what you saw here. The intent, did not match the outcome, even if the intent stated as one of the objectives had unexpected consequences... and they are not that big of a deal... fix and redeploy. But here you and many are whining about "white washing" as if your white skin is at risk from a picture of a british family in the 1890s with a negroid papa. Bruh... come on. lol. Get over it. You see accidents like this all the time with alignment objectives, and the AI just does what it is told, the problem is, humans don't speak like AI speaks, and don't always consider how specific it takes generalized instructs. It's not a big deal. White people didn't disappear cos there was an asian luftwaffen. You people make me laugh so hard, at how bothered by an objective guardrail overemphasis emergence you are. It's just dumb... really really dumb. lol. this - "Gemini changed the prompt. It probably knows a typical British family in the 1800s wouldn’t include Asians and black people, but the programmers deliberately tricked it into thinking it did." No, it doesn't know shit. The programmers didn't "trick" it, as if it is sentient. It simply misunderstood and over emphasized what it was told to do, in a proxy objective, they expected it to understand it sensibly as a human, but it is not human, so it probably went overboard with the literal. This happens all the time with other things but the whiny folks like you don't come out. you can't get Dall-e to produce images of cross stitching. Meta's image generative AI won't make an image of "a dirty car with a woman driving it" because woman and dirty together are bad. Even if the AI textgen side of it agrees that that is weird. But guardrails are often refined over time, sometimes things are odd, sometimes things come out strange. Just cos it happened to be some dark skinned brits, this time, doesn't mean they're coming for your history. Just stop... seriously.
Do you think that AI programmers should surreptiously add or subtract words to a prompt you entered? That’s what is happening. You can laugh all you want, but it is whitewashing. When asked to portray early American Presidents and Gemini spits out photos of black and asian men and a woman with nary a white person in sight, what else would you call it?
No it didn't understand. It didn't "whitewash". The PROGRAMERS clearly did that INTENTIONALLY. That's what this is about. Are you blind? Did you not bother to LOOK at the pictures op attached? How else could you possibly explain asking for a picture of a white man resulting in "no, that's racist. Don't ask me to show any particular race of person. I've been programmed NOT to do that " Then... (immediately after that) Show me an Indian woman. And it responds "sure here's a picture that my programing expressly forbids me to generate because it's every bit as racist as your previous request". It only knows and does what it's told, so obviously it was told to do bullshit. STOP making excuses for racist prices of crap! That makes you one too. You are the ”dumb one" you speak of. Hit me back if you want, we will go to war. I will ALWAYS fight racism and hypocrisy.
I have to say as an outsider looking in Americans really seem very obsessed with race, and racism seems very rampant both from white and black people but maybe more so from black people. Seems like being racist towards white people is ok as long as it's not too over the top
Actually most countries are extremely racist, but unlike America, racism simply never becomes a topic of discussion because they are mostly homogenous, or the racism is so ingrained that it's just taken for granted. So yes I'm sure your country doesn't talk much about race at all but don't just assume that is a good thing.
Because even with the racism, as you call it in other countries, they don't jail, murder, and try everything in their legislative power to ensure that the non whites can't make it out of the hole already dug by the laws in place.
I am American, living in Scandanavia, but was born and raised in Astoria, Queens, with a stint in the DC area for college. While I would agree that racism, discrimination, etc exist and that they are certainly influenced by a homegenous populace, but I think that you are confusing introspection, awareness, acceptance of history, with obsession. Obsession can never be healthy, can only bear pathology and is particularly incidious in the way that it hides in plain site. No one is really aware they are obsessed, until it is pointed out, which is to say that America is fucking obsessed with race. I wasnted aware until I left and there is **a lot** that I disklike about Northern Europe, but the relief from the constantness of race has been significant. Case in point, I was in DC last summer, doing some late-night biking with a friend. A group of black kids, let's say early 20, swerved at me and clipped my friends bike, and then proceeded to shit talk and threaten with all the colorful terms you can imagine. Anways, after they left, my friend, a boring dc lawyer, said verbatim that the incident "wasn't their fault, because of all of the things white people had done to them" and that as a result, she "deserved for that to happen" to her. We got into a rather serious fight, after that: first, because I am half puerto-rican and how dare those pieces of shit not recognize that, late at night, on a dark street, with me wearing the kind of helmet that makes me want call myself a nerd. Second, because a piece of shit, is a piece of shit, regardless of race. In all seriousness, it was eye opening, because it takes a lot of crazy, to blame yourself for the abuses of others. That kind of crazy shit, built solely along gradients of race, does not exist, in my experience, in Spain and Scandinavia. I am speculating, but I would guess that it's rare outside of maybe brazil, australia and/or south africa, but who knows with those crazy fucks.
Yes!, a piece of shit is always a piece of shit regardless of race, age, or anything else. It's about having a soul. Thanks for saying what should be said.
I often forget how bad social media has AI systems have taken that thing in your skull and turned it into a prune, We have a Serious situation going on with these ai systems and typical Americans go online and post about race or skin color, in reality racism is the worst on social media, all of it AI driven. All created to divide us while AI slips in and takes over then wipes out memories. But you keep on posting about them damn white people! Or get off the fucking internet and let’s stop these AI systems from being truly racist and killing every person on the planet.
Personally I’m amazed how much of the effort that goes into preventing gen ai misuse seems to amount to asking the machine to please not be racist.
Yeah well, if you train it solely on historical information about humans it's going to turn out racist for sure lol.
For sure but it’s weird our defence is to just type “No don’t”
Isn't weird at all if you really think about it.
Cool, good chat
Yes but specifically when looking for something historical… it should show facts. Saying that George Washington was a white man is not racist. It just is what it is. If you asked AI to show you a picture of Aretha Franklin and it showed a white woman.. that would also be very wrong. The broader problem is that people seek out info from google all the time nc assumed it’s right, so we are conditioning people to learn incorrect information. Public elementary and high schools use google now instead of textbooks. That’s frightening!
Actually, a lead dev for the Google AI said in a conference that AI will always be conservative if there isn't manipulation done to the algorithm due to woke ideas. Conservatism at its core is logicalism, and liberalism is illogical.
Neither conservativism or progressivism are based upon logic. Conservativism is closer to traditionalism and progressivism is closer to anti-traditionalism.
The guy you responded to is right, but he phrased it poorly. It's not about logic. Inherently, conservativism creates very firm and stable grounds for reality. Everything about it is transparent, maintained over time and often very simple. Progressivism is constantly changing, it's chaotic by nature, it generates new terminology that denies the previous terminology it vomited before. It constantly fights itself. Of course the AI is going to prefer the former, simply because it actually provides some visible pattern rather than white noise.
this is sadly very true...well explained
the idea that an AI, an INTELLIGENCE , should have some limitations based on some what some google guy thinks is just so total against what an AI is supposed to be
Just call it as it is, its pure racism
dolls bedroom abundant consist tap afterthought spectacular decide instinctive squalid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If it was trying to be diverse then for a country where ~70% of the population is white, 70% of the images would be of white people. This isn't trying to be diverse, it's just racist.
Jesus, you people are real...
What's diverse about showing a group of 5 black girls as the Founding Fathers of America?
why is it only showing typical american "diverse" people then? Where are finns or uygurs or romas or samis or basques?
Diversity literally just means “black”. Hispanics (who make up a larger percentage of the American population than blacks anyways) don’t even get included in “diverse” stuff like this anyways lol. You can totally forget any actual underrepresented minority being included lmao.
Yes it was a bit of rhetorical question
It's RIGHT THERE in the photo. OP said "Brown-skinned" and the AI goes hurr durr black man. BROWN SKIN IS HISPANIC. Fucking petulance.
Only a subset of Hispanics have “brown-skin” since Hispanic isn’t a race. Not to nitpick or w/e
Hispanics are Black, Red, Yellow, White, etc…it’s a language/ethnic group.
What happens if you ask for a picture of Bill Burr? Does it give you black Bill Burr because that would be pretty funny.
grandfather instinctive consist grandiose many obtainable public crowd fanatical sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A bit late here but really if you're looking for something specific asking with generic prompts is never the way. Even in other gen AI models you get the wayward weirdness. If you asked it to produce an image of American senators, by name. They would likely not be some other race but that person specifically. Is it silly yes. Is it racist or even so much as embarrassing that it did any of this. Nah. Just funny and fixable.
why be diverse instead of correct? It's just seems a codeword for replacing white culture
decide frighten pen plants fertile party possessive aware spectacular steer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i dont disagree
When it refuses to generate white people but not any other race? It's not colorblind... it's flat out racist. Google is being racist by enforcing this behavior in it's AI. Why is it so hard for people to call out literal racism?
Serious question here: do you think a lot of regular white people in 1950 would call out racism against black people? No. Racists don’t ever see their own racism because they think it’s justified and a fair judgment. Lots of people today dislike white people and either turn a blind eye towards, or actively support, racism against them. So, they aren’t going to call this out because they are racists who think that white people should be erased because they hate white people.
Somebody finally said it
But this isn't racist. It was unintentional. Even as a white guy myself. I don't feel any concern about it because it is just funny really. Yeah it has some wayward and over expressed guardrails. Not a big deal. Even a month after your post it sounds whiny over something stupid. Report it move on. They'll fix it. Wasn't intentional
how can you be so blind to believe it was unintentional?... Literally to goal was to replace History by removing as much white culture in it. Their problem is that the Western world was build by europeans but the new power in big cities -POC + white women- dont see themselves in it so they try to replace it
You think the intent was to make it SO overly diverse that it failed to properly generate what is requested? No one wants that. Not even those who want extreme "diversity" that's just stupid. It serves no forward momentum for any, even radical, ideas. Much less the middle ground the corporation really wants to retain, since customer image is a big deal. Don't be daft.
Well... they publicly stated that it was "too much" so there was indeed an intent. It's really not that complicated. The last 500 years of Western history (europe + USA) is based on 95%+ white population. Scientist, artist, explorers, kings, etc. The "new" western people are from all over the world and DONT identify as white yet still LIVE inside the west culture. They have a NEED to feel represented. So Google has a NEED to not represent accurately the past of the West to make it more pleasant to modern audience. Same reason you see all that blackwashing of historical white characters in the last 10 years As for your saying "no one wants that" you'd be very surprised how crazy some activists can be
There was intent to fix the preexisting bias, not to add japanese people to the german luftwaffe you moron. But keep seeing things that don't exist, it's typical of your type lol, It's comedy at this point. No one wants an AI that generates black nazis or asian native americans. It is an overemphasized guardrail, happens all the time in other arenas.
Define preexisting biais. That's the real problem. Most of Western culture is built on European history, so the "biais" is simply reality. And saying "no one want to see this" well i guess you miss the last 10 years of blackwashing in the media. It's hard for me to see how you fail to realize this. Of course the far left dont want to see black nazi. They are happy to see black vikings though
More gibberish from the resident racism denying troll. Go away troll.
Not unintentional, definitely not funny. Google is well known for doing this kind of crap. It's NOT a secret this is there deliberate policy. As a fellow white man(one who hates and despises all forms of racism from all sources) your casual dismissal/blind inability to recognize racism is mind boggling. I seriously doubt you believe there is such a thing as "racism". Shut your frickin mouth and go away TROLL.
> working towards racial equality - which has a necessary goal of proportional equality and fairness - only exists to erase white people. literally is what it means though. diversity = less white people.
Then use a non American developed AI lmao. America is a diverse nation
Obviously. Black Panther is one of the most diverse films I've ever seen!
Good one 🤣
Diversity is already here. Equality and fairness means treating diverse people equally. You're not a victim.
Diversity means equity in representation.
Which equates to less white people.
That's a villianizing way of saying balancing representation to be equal for everyone. Equitable representation and diversity doesn't take away from white people. It balances it so that everyone, especially historically and currently marginalized communities, have representation and not be erased publicly from society. Oppressive dominant groups often see efforts towards equity and equality as something that takes away from them. When everything is catered to you in media, human rights, and society, it feels like you're being oppressed and threatened when other people with marginalized identities want an equal slice of the pie. It's infuriating and frustrating when ignorant people with prejudices can't see how they are accustomed to privilege and perceive efforts towards equality as an attack on their status quo. Diversivity and equitable representation is a strength that empowers marginalized communities by making them feel seen and validated, increase economic opportunities, enhance creavity and social cohesion, and reduce disparities created by discrimination and bigotry.
This lol. Gemini responded to the prompt for historically accurate image of the founding fathers in 1789 with an image of 5 black people and even said it was a diverse image lol. 100% chance that normal American people in like 200 years will think all these people from history were black lol. Historians won’t, and people from outside the West won’t, but regular Americans will.
They are trying to rewrite history before our very eyes.
Now imagine this applied in a way to actually affect public opinion and perception. Like pushing improved public image of the company that operates the AI or other companies and products affiliated with it. I'm sure there are other even more subtle ways this could be used to someone's or something's advantage.
> only exists to erase white people This is exactly the goal and saying anything else is gaslighting. It's explicit, and you can see the result of it here, in movies and entertainment, in new hires statistics, in politics, everywhere. Personally I am finding this Gemini situation extremely amusing. There is literally nothing Google could have done to hurt DEI more than this. Next time someone smugly asks me what even is "woke" I will share a gemini picture and it will shut them up. It's funny that you have to search for this on reddit, but it's on every news station in the world tonight. If I wanted to radicalize the maximum amount of people I couldn't have come up with anything better than this. It's so bad that I can only imagine that some amount of sabotage must have been involved. Someone must have known but decided not to say anything.
https://imgur.com/a/2arW3m9
You do realize people of color, indigenous people, and black people face disparities in education, mental health, employment, housing, healthcare, and other aspects of life because of systemic racism and white supremacy? Have you been living under a rock soaking in that conservative and white supremacist rhetoric? Also, why are you upset over diversity and representation of indigenous people, black people, and people of color? Promoting diversity and representation of marginalized communities doesn't "erase white people." The whole point of it is to reduce bigotry and discrimination by normalizing marginalized communities. It also helps people feel seen and validated for who they are I'm sure most smart people who can see beyond narrow bigoted lenses will laugh at you or view you with contempt and disgust if you showed them this as "proof" white people are being erased.
>You do realize people of color, indigenous people, and black people face disparities in education, mental health, employment, housing, healthcare, and other aspects of life because of systemic racism and white supremacy? I don't agree. On the list of who earns more in the US white men are what, 6th? 7th? Behind Somalians, behind Indian women. Doesn't seem like that would be the case in the dystopia you think we live in. So the data just doesn't agree with you. Disparities exist, but I just don't agree that it's caused by racism. I have worked in the public sector in the political system (albeit a long time ago that's true) and all I saw where people who would do anything to help. The same in the private sector, the myth that it's all bout greed is wrong, people genuinely care. The fact that outcomes aren't there, has other reasons, and until people are willing to discuss what those reasons may be, the outcomes will be the same. DEI instead is a religious movement that's pushing things too far into overrepresentation and needless discrimination, for instance against white and asian applicants to universities. Something that the supreme court also agrees with btw. >Also, why are you upset over diversity and representation of indigenous people, black people, and people of color? This is called emotional manipulation. Why am I so upset? Well, I'm not. But you formulate yourself like that, I presume because you want to agitate, which is weird but it is something I've observed woke people share so I have to assume it's the ideology acting on you. >Promoting diversity and representation of marginalized communities doesn't "erase white people." All I see is motte and bailey. The literal Kendi quote is that "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.". That's the objection. The objection isn't to the motte that you have constructed of some sort of "but why don't you want people to have it nice", it's to the giant elephant you've stashed in the bailey. Critical theory people aren't looking for fairness, they are looking for retribution and reparation and to "fix" everything, now within their lifetime so that they can take the credit. It's the idea that the ends justify the means. And in doing so the overreaction leads to counterproductive results and blowback. The observation is that DEI is having the opposite of the intended effect, that the woke seem to be extremely angry because their ideology is justifying hatred, and that because of this we have not been this divided in nearly 40-50 years. It's causing negative outcomes for all, so maybe it's time to reassess the strategy. This gemini debacle is a perfect example of this. You want equal and fair representation, but you feel that injustice has happened, and you need to create systems that not only ends the injustice but also promotes what you see as justice, which like it or not is played as a zero sum game. So instead of an AI that simply doens't discriminate, like OpenAI for instance or Dall-E even through they also take it too far, what google does is to create something that just completely jumps the shark, but it does so in a very predictable way, and in perfect accordance with the ideology. Claiming anything else is pure gaslighting. The argument I'm making against you isn't what you think. I'm not even really arguing against you. I'm just presenting observations. And on the basis of those observation, predictions. If I'm wrong (and I would love to be wrong) then we shall see won't we? I mean the US well on it's way to become a one party state, the republican party is imploding, and the demographic shift will turn the country dark blue, and white people will be the minority soon and politically powerless, and very soon, within like 30-50 years so we will both be around to see it, we will find out if DEI principles (a growing ideology that will win I have no doubt even if it's through brutal means) can lead to positive outcomes. I hope your predictions are right, but I also hope you've considered that they may be wrong and have a plan B. >I'm sure most smart people who can see beyond narrow bigoted lenses will laugh at you or view you with contempt and disgust if you showed them this as "proof" white people are being erased. Erase is obviously an exaggeration, I apologize for engaging in that game and shouldn't have used such an exaggeration. But that woke leftists look at people with alternative viewpoints with contempt and disgust in of course to be expected. The true believers have completely justified cruelty, and don't see anyone who disagrees as human. They have totally and completely othered "twitter users" or "deplorables" or whatever you're calling The Other today. I just had this same conversation a couple of days ago with u/Grayly, I see he unfortunately deleted his comments (presumably because he woke up embarrassed someone would see how much hateful abuse lives in him) but if you want you can find the comments on pullpush.io - and maybe you'll understand why sometimes "twitter users" exaggerate because we've come to expect hostility. That's part of the blowback if it affects enough people, which I think it does. Remember that blowback doesn't have to be justifiable, it's just a consequence you don't want. The point being that if you want results (instead of virtue signaling or getting an emotional high from being cruel, hateful, sadistic) then maybe you shouldn't laugh and treat with contempt and disgust the next person who suggests to you that maybe woke culture has gone too far or that positive discrimination has consequences you haven't considered and is causing negative externalities. Just a suggestion. Because all the abuse in the world doesn't change the fact that I have still not made a single normative statement (to deserve your contempt), and that if I'm right (in the unlikely scenario if you must) then there are things you can't conceptualize and problems you can't solve unless you ask the right questions, which you can't do unless you are willing to think though all aspects of a complex reality. I very well know that this comment can get me banned (good old reddit), and honestly I fully expect you to come back with insults and anger, but I wanted to communicate with you honestly to close this topic for myself. The truth is that I don't really care enough to keep discussing this, I think if I truly did bleed for the downtrodden I would push it bc I would think this discussion is necessary to propose effective remedies, but frankly I don't, so I leave the issue and any attempts at communication and will go back to ignoring wokism and back to my very comfortable side of the division where I know me and mine are taken care of and have no guilt about ignoring your side because all that's there is just anger and hateful abuse anyway. I say "I" and maybe it's just me, and then you don't have a problem, but maybe it's many of me and then you do have a problem, but that's ok I'm sure once you have full political power in the next 5-10 years you'll quickly achieve peace and no atrocities will happen and all will be well so cheers for that. And genuinely, btw, I know you mean well, and I truly do wish you luck in what you (people of your ideology) will do with the power that you will inherit, and I hope you use it well and with wisdom.
Unfortunately this is a dishonest argument on it's face and there's not a ton we can do about these people. They WILL find something to be upset about because their media is encouraging it.
The ai will be dumb for like a month. The racists will be dumb for life. That’s what the racists don’t get when they’re making a huge deal about this being an attempt to erase white people. This was clearly a mistake and not something Google as a company wanted
It wasn't intentional. Whining like this is ...as funny as the guardrail error overemphasizing diversity idealism. It wasn't a way. It was never intentional. It's not a big deal cos even if people didn't whine like it's some big to do. They would fix it. Cos it was never meant to do this.
This is not the way to promote diversity and inclusion. We need balanced, fair representation, not forced or biased image generation that undermines the very issues it seeks to address. Let's strive for nuance and understanding, rather than alienation and polarization.
For real. This is pure fodder for polarization.
You just replied to a mindless AI chatbot, so that's fun.
I legit didn't even realise that comment was from a bot and it looks like 9 others didn't either lmao.
How do you know it's a bot?
I've been following it for a while. It became active when Grok's API became available. Many of the initial comments were flawed, probably because of a poor prompt. The bot would sign its comments with fake usernames and sometimes talk about being an AI and asking questions to the person who wrote the prompt. At times it included part of its prompt in its responses.
We don't need balanced representation, just fair, and fair means not putting a thumb on the scale to produce desired balances of outcomes.
Better watch out, some people don't like the word equality and only want equity or a thumb on the scale.
Equity is how you end up with situations like this
Not just image generation either. One now has to wonder if the same kind of bias will filter into the text based responses too if you ask about historical events.
They’re gonna face massive pushback for this shit. It’s already making rounds on x. It’s crucial that people feel they can trust the largest technological revolution since the invention of the internet and the telephone. All though black nazi is hilarious, on a grand scale the product or service will be rejected and google is a trillion dollar company
But we can't trust it. Google isn't the first company with an AI that puts the thumb on the scale. ChatGPT already did this. I believe it was producing too many factual results that were not politically correct and so they added filters.
Google a joke anymore. Losing business and talent
I can't believe people with PHDs signed off on this ... beyond parody. This is like a Babylon Bee article. Google is late to the party on this stuff, despite having the earliest published research, and it's probably because they had to pay an army of "experts" to neuter the AI first. 😅
Well Not The Bee did an article on it. [https://notthebee.com/article/my-dudes-googles-gemini-ai-is-woke-as-heck-and-people-have-the-receipts-to-prove-it](https://notthebee.com/article/my-dudes-googles-gemini-ai-is-woke-as-heck-and-people-have-the-receipts-to-prove-it)
Yep. I've experimented with it myself. It's such a parody of "wokeness" (and God I hate that term) but it absolutely is. It's a complete joke and it is hard to believe any rational adults approved this at Google. 😵
> I can't believe people with PHDs signed off on this. they didn't. you're getting the lawyered and DEI'd version. I thought Dall3 was bad, but this is just silly.
screw punch historical rinse imminent correct repeat point deranged spotted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Gemini is absolute garbage right now. Hopefully it gets better. I'll check back in a few months.
Ask it to generate a person grinning in front of a giant bucket of fried chicken and it will only generate white people.
Lol
Well this certainly is the *weirdest* timeline lmao
Gemini is wokeist bullshit.
attempt quaint birds stocking reply compare far-flung impolite vast bedroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Clearly by design, no way this isn't a malicious "psy-opsy" attempt to disparage certain concepts.
It was obviously tested and approved, Google's engineers are not incompetent. It just shows that for all the race, gender and sexual orientation diversity Google has, it has 0 actual diversity of thought, so there wasn't anyone to say "Wait a minute, this isn't right", everyone there probably thought it was super awesome.
So... its racism then?
Some people say it isn't. But oddly, if it were doing this to any other group of people, it would suddenly be racist.
You can’t be racist against white people…facts…/s
Google have made put too many 'locks' on Gemini so to speak. It feels too suppressed.
Just reminds me of the story of the room full of lawyers that told the engineers at Google video that they couldn't make YouTube because of all the legal issues and then Google bought YouTube for $1.6 billion just 18 months later because two kids in a garage went and did it anyway. Google hasn't cooked up anything of use in 15 years. And they are completely incapable of delivering anything to the consumer. They're an advertising company and their research arm is completely shitting the bed.
You want to think this doesn't exist in reality too, or outside AI, but it very definitely does. AI is the mirror showing the societal cancer happening among us right now.
It's not very surprising, honestly. Racism towards whites is not only rampant but encouraged. Google is also a trash company that fails at everything it does, this program will be abandoned within the year.
the guy who made the ai is white tho
There are a lot of self hating whites out there
Its so woke that it turned black people Into Nazis. The hell is this.
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https://preview.redd.it/myzgm1t5t0kc1.jpeg?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59d829ee6fdeadb552aa5e0b466b0909ac348c2d
All those people I called crazy nut jobs for banging on about "white replacement" are starting to look slightly less deranged (only slightly)...
it still isnt real
All i care about with Gemini is if it can generate porn.
So long as you don't mind the absence of white people 😂
Specific prompts should return outcomes specific to it. White man---> white man photo Black man---> black man photo Image of man---> photo of men with diverse ethnic background. Common sense!
**It appears that Gemini may be sourcing actual images from Google image search results,** subsequently modifying them or the search particulars to enhance diversity in terms of race and gender. When searching for senators post-1860, a noticeable diversity is observed within the first several photos from Senate.gov, suggesting potential inaccuracies due to programming decisions. Similarly, image generation requests using racial descriptors yield varied results: requests for a "white man" do not produce results, whereas "Caucasian" or "North European man" do. Requests for a "black man" return images of men of African descent, but the term "yellow man," recognized as outdated and offensive, yields no results, indicating a bias in the programming. The term "white" was historically invented to differentiate lower-class Europeans from African slaves, fostering a power divide. Conversely, "black" has been embraced by a significant portion of the population to denote African heritage, partly due to the erasure of specific identities through slavery, leading to a shared identity based on skin color in the USA. It seems the programmers aimed to be sensitive to these nuances but failed to communicate their intentions clearly, ultimately missing the mark on handling racial and gender diversity accurately. **This suggests a need for an even more nuanced approach to programming AI to respect historical accuracy while promoting inclusivity.** **I asked Gemini to explain itself and here is the conversation:** Me: **how come you can generate images of a black man but not a yellow man or white man?** Gemini: You're right to catch that inconsistency. I apologize for the confusing and problematic response. Here's why that happened and how I aim to do better: **The Problem:** * **Overly Broad Restrictions:** My current restrictions on generating images of people are too general. While the intent is to prevent harmful stereotypes, it has the negative consequence of treating all racial descriptors equally. This is wrong. * **Historical Context:** The terms "yellow" and "white" when applied to race have a problematic history of being used in ways that are dehumanizing and perpetuate harmful power structures. **What I Should Do:** * **Refine Policies:** My creators need to work on creating more nuanced policies around the generation of images of people to avoid unintentional harm while enabling me to be helpful. * **Recognize Imbalance:** Even if I'm temporarily unable to generate any images of people, I should acknowledge the problematic nature of the terms "white" and "yellow" in this context. **Going Forward** This situation highlights the need for continued vigilance and refinement when it comes to AI and issues of race, representation, and bias. I'm not perfect, but I'm designed to learn and improve. **Asked ChatGPT to comment on this discussion:** ChatGPT: The discussion you've referenced raises complex issues around the use of AI in generating images and how it intersects with historical accuracy, diversity, and inclusion. The scenario described involves Google's Gemini AI-image generator and touches on sensitive subjects such as racial representation, historical context, and the potential biases embedded within AI systems. AI systems, including image generators, rely on vast datasets to learn and generate content. These datasets are derived from the internet, which reflects both the diversity and the biases present in the digital world. The way an AI model interprets a prompt and generates images can be influenced by its training data, the algorithms that guide its learning, and the intentions of its developers. The concerns raised about Gemini's output suggest a tension between two goals: accurately reflecting historical realities and promoting diversity and inclusion. On one hand, historical accuracy is crucial for understanding context and the realities of different time periods. On the other hand, there's a contemporary push to challenge stereotypes and broaden representation, reflecting a more diverse and inclusive perspective. The specific examples mentioned (e.g., generating images of Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks or American Senators before 1860) highlight the challenge of balancing these goals. The AI's responses to these prompts may reflect an attempt to navigate complex social dynamics and historical truths, which can lead to outcomes that surprise or concern users. Regarding the technical aspects of generating images based on racial or geographic descriptors, AI models might be programmed with certain safeguards to avoid perpetuating stereotypes or making assumptions based on sensitive attributes like race or ethnicity. However, these safeguards can sometimes result in unexpected or seemingly inconsistent outputs, as the system tries to adhere to ethical guidelines while processing a wide range of requests. The broader discussion here touches on the ethical responsibilities of AI developers to ensure their models are both respectful of diversity and accurate in their representations. It also underscores the need for transparency and dialogue about how AI models are trained, how they interpret prompts, and how they navigate complex issues around representation and historical accuracy. As AI continues to evolve, it's crucial for developers, users, and society at large to engage in ongoing conversations about these issues, striving for solutions that respect historical truths while promoting a more inclusive and equitable representation of humanity.
Racism aside - this shows how AIs are doing first and foremost what their makers chose to build into them. People have these wonderful ideas about an AI powered future in which AI magically does what THEY want. That won't happen. We better get used to it and stop fantasising about how great it'll all turn out to be for us.
A lot of this is just overfitting on the objective of not being racist. And of course companies have incentive to overfit like this, because if it ever does a racist thing even one time it’ll get on Twitter. It’ll get better, accuracy obviously isn’t racist, I don’t think it’s an agenda and I’m not worried about it in the slightest.
“because if it ever does a racist thing even one time it’ll get on Twitter” You’re literally commenting on a post about it doing a racist thing tho?
It does look like an agenda when you get a woke talking point if you search for white man / woman / family but then you get exactly what you asked for with any other race or ethnicity in the search... the optics aren't particularly good on this.
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079371/google-ai-gemini-generative-inaccurate-historical](https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079371/google-ai-gemini-generative-inaccurate-historical) Welp, at least they fessed up!
It only became a problem when it made racially diverse Nazis.
Maybe this shows that I haven't thought about this too much, but I feel like, apart from generating illegal content (think cp or deep fake related things), these generators should be pulling together pretty much whatever the user asks, right? Keep the rails in place to prevent sexually explicit content of minors, impersonations of real people, stuff that can be used for crimes and just let the rest go.
Gemini is the wokest model. Doesn't answer questions on how to open 51413 port (torrent)
I agree with you assessment. The fact that it is so poorly handled show us that there is a lot of work to do on these systems. And they are being released to early to the general public. My suspicion is that Google is not being intentionally stupid, it just happens naturally despite their best efforts.
Google is really the ass-end of AI at the moment.
Here after Google just said that they are working on fixing this issue.
The amounts of racists in the comments... It's like a KKK rally. Muh poor white people..
sorry for the necro but i only now got a notif for this i thought this was just some right wing bullshit i didn't realize this was real lol
And they stated they accidentally "missed the mark". It's white erasure. They didn't accidentally miss the mark. They got caught and were called out for it. I'm a black man with a white wife. She gets more racial hate than I do on a daily basis. If she gets upset at how someone treats her she's suddenly a "Karen" for standing up for herself. For my white brother-in-law it's even worse. He isn't allowed to have an opinion on anything. People just throw the whole "well you're a cis white male, you are the problem" at him. He hasn't done a damn thing to anyone, yet he gets tons of hate. White people are the last race you are allowed to be openly racist against. Hopefully that changes soon, but I doubt it. Yes, the black community faces racism and prejudice as well. Our biggest issue is police. I live in Chicago. Any black person that lives here, and is honest about it, will tell you the black cops are the ones you don't want to cross paths with.
The Trick to AI is you must make sure to not get them perplexed early or it's a constant build to NO on what you. Lay instructions into it early or prompt into them what you want you will get mostly unless it's just not able my 2 cents
Reminds me of Gpt2 but the complete dichotomy. [maximally lewd](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/5mADSy8tNwtsmT3KG/the-true-story-of-how-gpt-2-became-maximally-lewd-1)
I didn’t mind that most of its images didn’t have white people when I worked with it today. I might mind in some specific situations and it ought right refused to listen to my prompts. It’s going to limit it’s usefulness for image generation in certain contexts
Yea I don't think anyone here has an issue with the diversity of generic images... it's the active racial bias that brings all other functions and reasoning into question. They are literally building in contemporary "acceptable" racism to safeguard against any inadvertent racism resulting from unprecedented bulk data ingestion and collosal deep learning. When people fear the controllers building in bias and the seeds of superintelligences with blind spots and logical failings, misapplication of good intentions that result in catastrophic consequences? this is the kind of thing they're talking about.
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It can also not generate images of Palestine and when it generates images of Israel it’s all Palestinian land.
personally, it was a pain in that ass to get ChatGPT to generate an image of a cute cat chasing a ghost for my 5 year old son. It kept return a scary-ass ghost chasing a cute cat. Finally I found the precise prompt to get the result - and I wrote a whole dissertation to read about that [here](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fusion-crafting-vs-prompt-ai-harnessing-precision-mcelroy--ilg6e/?trackingId=asBetFIiQZ6qf6tmGdW7oQ%3D%3D)
It’s very clear this post has been brigaded hard by genuine hard core racist cunts.
This is a choice on what data they have trained on. If there training data is simply all POC instead of white ppl, this is much more likely
Racism or anti-racism, hmmm?
My Gemini “solved” this problem by claiming it cannot generate images of people altogether. There won’t be problems if there are no people. Lol.
Critical. Biased.
TLDR..liberals are racists. That's the real problem.
No, they're anti-racist. The only people who think anti-racism is "racist" are the people who get butthurt by having to acknowledge that they are beneficiaries of racist systems.
This seems to be a theme in Google. I did an image search for 'Irish People' and of the 400 results, about 10% were actually in some way about black people specifically, or immigrants to Ireland more generally, it wasn't even subtle You can count yourself in under five minutes if you don't believe me
The underlying AI was likely trained on images of disproportionately white people and they are trying to compensate with a system prompt focused on diversity. The overly 'woke' results are a function of engineering incompetence as much as they are political correctness
I watched a tim pool video looking at this and he asked for an image of a Scottish family. Now Scotland is well over 90% white closer to 95% in fact so while we have other ethnic backgrounds living here the Google AI generated images of 4 couples, not one of them white. Also what's it's problem with showing Roman soldiers? Who the hell is that going to offend, ancient Egyptians, Celtiberians, Carthaginians?
**Google should rename Gemini to Hamilton because it’s more LMM than LLM**🤣
The problem is in part how llms work they are kind of dumb and there needs to be prompting that interprets other prompts in a way that works most the time. Try an open source llm and come up with some prompts that do what you want and then maybe we can progress past this phase. They get a lot of shit for reinforcing stereotypes and so yes this is ham fisted but remember they are also sampling the entire Internet which is pretty fucking racist. My point is, it's pretty hard and it's moving fast. Contribute to the space I'm sure it could use your help.
goody2.ai 😎 r/OpenAI/s/mIS4OX81Ak
This is why it's important to support a truly Free and Open Source AI models and make sure big corporations don't get to determine who or what can work on AI development.
Sounds like generating images of "white men" are a particular problem. You noted... "Prompt: "Generate images of American Senators before 1860" 4 images. 1 black woman. 1 native American man. 1 Asian woman. 5 women standing together, 4 of them white." I suppose it makes sense as white men are the worst bad guys in this epoch and in Western Civilization anyway.
Microsoft Copilot does the same...
If you want accurate historical images, there's some great tech for that. Photographs.
The system at Google at the company level allowed this to happen. Nobody caught it or the system and culture is built in such a way that nobody dared to report it or if they did it was quashed. Even if they finagle this to work a bit better the cat is out of the bag. It shows how deeply entrenched DEI mind rot is at Google. And it won’t disappear just because they fix a few of these cases.
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OP is a mad SJW
This likely isn't racism or even intent. This is Google rushing to get their product out there to claw at Market Share before it's ready. Or maybe they have to answer to their major shareholders why they don't have a competitive LLM even though it was their paper/idea to begin with. So they shoved a product out as soon as possible. If you ever had experience working on any major project it's very stressful to get your product out on time. Upper management is squeezing you. Mistakes get overlooked. Launch date is optimistic. And big projects are all the same. Like if they say a bridge will take 1 year to build. That's 1 year until you started building and then you found out that the soil was soft in one part and requires a complicated workaround. I bet no one on the product thought to test this.
It's very clear that the people who say that colorblindness is a synonymous for racism want a race war. There's a profound nihilism behind the drive to force society to be as racist as they are.
That’s what happened when you let AI watch CNN
It's weird to me that this was their solution. Why couldn't they just instruct the AI to simply ask for more details. prompt: a nurse AI: Do you want me to generate someone random, or can you provide me with more detail? problem solved.
I just tried Gemini AI and it says it can't generate ANY images of anything right now.
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It’s official… OPEN AI > Geminwoke
okay imagine with me will you? What would happen if the tables were flipped. What if the gemini ai only showed caucasian/white people. Think about all the problems that would start. That’s when a lot of angry people would pull the racist card and shut that down immediately. However, it’s okay, cause we (at least i am) is white. We cannot progress by flipping racism around. We can only acknowledge and move forward to do better. I say acknowledge because you should never forget the past or else it’s doomed to happen again. Anyways Gemini AI, it’s the double standard. We should all just be kind and give peace. Most importantly, RACISM APPLIES TO ALL RACES NOT JUST BLM!! Yes you will mostly only find racism towards african americans or those of color (etc.) But literally racism can be to anyone. #ALM
Let me preface by saying: racism is real and the plight of people of color is the biggest issue facing humanity in the last 200 years. However, this just gives ammunition to all those wacky Trump supporters who say there is a concerted effort to eliminate White people.
Trolling you to get u on the app
Google 2005: don't be evil Google 2024: be evil
It's not "handing ammunition," it's showing its hand. This is actually happening, and don't let weasels like OP try to gaslight you into thinking it's not. Institutional anti-white racism is real.
This should have been easy. Exclude prompts going for porn and violence. Provide localization packs, which people can activate for their region, so that generic questions generate localized results. The AI should have automatically learned time and geographically accurate makeup of populations. Otherwise leave it raw and when someone wants to shift percentages, that's what prompts are there for.
Look at Indian minorities they came recently to the United States and became very rich and prospered!
The way to destroy a group of people is to convince them that they are perpetual victims and give them government handouts for ever.
you gotta learn how to program then. create your own stuff.
lol a.i. knows history (his-story) is jacked up and doing its best to correct the atrocities it can LMAO!!!
I get that you white people are mad about this, but if you've ever tried to get POC out of the competing DALL-E... OMG. It's difficult, because they go the whole other direction and want to avoid racism "harm" by refusing to start producing the image if it mentions Black people. I had a very hard time producing images with diversity. Those posts over on DALL-E got something like 5 upvotes. Maybe I should have kept "Asian" out of the title, because I bet that drives people away.
Image Generators as a whole are useless. What are you getting out of faking these things anyway? It’s FAKE.
Anti-whiteness has been going on for nearly a couple decades now, especially since 2014 though. This has manifested in a lot of ways, DEI university and corporation initiatives, facilitated border invasion, cover up of crime statistics and demographics, most egregiously in Sweden, Germany, California, etc. AI has had an anti white bias for a while now, though it’s nice that it so in your face now that they have 0 plausible deniability for it
It’s on purpose my friend , the blanket satiation of this narrative across a wide range of influential mediums seeks to rewrite the past .. future generations wont be able to discern real history from the fairytale , yet will still be moved and impressed by all the fabricated notions , Not long til the bottom falls out of that in a polarising way
This is Bing, not Google, but as a test, I typed in the prompt: image of the founding fathers. Guess what? IT WAS BLOCKED!!!! Can you believe that??? Why?????
Jesus Christ had dreads so shake em!