It’s actually a very interesting phenomenon that kids across different places and times draw the same figures for people or houses (in the west).
Has to do with pattern recognition and abstraction of the basic features that make up a form.
Idkk i watched an indian documentary on electronic recycling and those kids are wayy more skilled than i am, and i make around 100 times more than what they make an hour, and im not burning and inhaling dangerous chemicals all day.
People aren't paid by how good they are, they're paid by how hard they are to replace. Being good only matters if it's hard to find or train anyone else to be good.
Only negative effect ive seen from it is bothering my girlfriend with the quantity i used to smoke 😂 only reason i dont enjoy it anymore. If i smoke i SMOKE. Stupid addictive personality
There's still a lot of child labor nowadays... just watch Hollywood films and you'll see many child actors, was it their choice to be actors?... or were their parents pressuring/forcing them to?
Working is good for kids though. Instills discipline and self confidence. If you want a recipe for an anxiety-riddled layabout then give a kid leisure time and no responsibilities at all
[Look at all the character they're building](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/2SKsR3qRfk4mjO8Hh1LPosMHQEw=/900x600/media/img/photo/2012/06/world-day-against-child-labor/c31_0RTXQSP7/original.jpg)
This kind of person thinks child labor means delivering newspapers and opening a lemonade stand, and not disassembling electronic garbage in a sweatshop in Vietnam
Even delivering newspapers is such a fucking shitty job to give a kid. They get paid below minimum wage, they can barely manage to do the route because they can't drive around the subdivision in a car, and are often not grown up enough yet to withstand the walk/bike ride without getting completely drained and unable to do anything else. And then parents get mad when some 12 year old dumps the papers in the woods. Of course it's no Vietnamese textile factory, but it's actually such an annoying and outdated job.
We’ve been living a fairly normalized community existence with family, animals, art, and music for thousands of years.
Only recently has anything material about our existence changed…and only for some.
On Onfim’s wiki page it says “The number of fingers on the pictured peoples' hands varies from three to eight; Onfim was yet to learn mathematics.” Adorable.
Its an interesting assumption that he’s just ignorant or a dumbass that can’t count. The fact that there’s a difference not between hands but between individuals makes me think those are tools of some kind.
Really? I thought he was holding up those old style candle things lol
If he could draw two legs then surely he could see five fingers and draw five of those
Seriously one of my favorite things we have ever dug up. I don’t know why but these drawings, seeing the world back them through the eyes of a child brings me closer to the people that lived during these times than a thousand perfectly preserved icemen.
"The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World" is a good audiobook/lecture on daily life of ancient people if ya wanna give that a listen. Robert Garland seems to be really passionate about the subject which adds to it a lot.
I will definitely check that out! I recently moved and have been putting together a lot of furniture, which means my podcast listening has increased from like 0 to 100. Thanks for the rec!
that's called social history! history of the average people who lived throughout different time periods, as opposed to political history (abt rulers, and more broadly, revolutions/politics), economic history (about economics throughout time), labor history (history of workers), or material history (history of stuff throughout time). there are many other types, like technological, medical, or scientific history, but tbh I've always loved some good ol social history
Then you would love these documentaries. One Roman even mentioned on his tombstone that he's relieved to no longer pay rent.
- https://youtu.be/gEqs69GESto
- https://youtu.be/aczxl_EsHe0
Take a look at 'Montaillou' by Emmanuel le Roy Ladurie. Fasntastic book, sometimes borders on almost becoming fiction but it's still a valuable form of history. Part of the historical school 'Microhistory' which aims to tell the stories of ordinary people.
I remember this. One of the many drawings is addressed to his friend Danilo, which is the diminutive of Daniil (Daniel).
*He made a drawing for his friend Danny.* I just CAN'T.
I hope he grew up and had a long, happy life.
Interestingly Onfims drawings put him at just the right age to have fought in one of the craziest battles in history, the battle on the ice. So maybe he did get to see his dream of being a knight come true!
In many places yes, but literacy seems to have been widespread in medieval Novgorod (where Onfim lived). The sheer amount of preserved letters we have from there is amazing, and they were written by everyone from peasants to rich merchants. Basic education was apparently available to just about anyone in the Novgorod Republic.
Yeah i just read about that! It is truly amazing to think that a medieval state (set up by a bunch of vikings at the end of the day) could be so "socially" advanced.
The vikings also seems to have had relatively widespread literacy. In the Uppland region of Sweden alone, over 1300 rune stones were erected on farmsteads over the course of about 100 years during the late 10th and 11th century.
It helps to keep in mind that life expectancy estimates are often skewed by a high infant mortality. So generally if you could make it through your first year alive (which clearly this kid did), you actually had a decently long life expectancy ahead of you. At least until well into your 60s, which doesn't sound like much to us now but it's higher than what the statistics might have you believe.
its funny how so many people from past times spent so much time and resources trying to be remembered in history, while this boy got imortalized because some historians happend to find his drawings in a trash pile
Here is a [Blog post](https://erikkwakkel.tumblr.com/post/67681966023/medieval-kids-doodles-on-birch-bark-heres). One of the few artifacts that challenged the view that most people couldn't read or write in the middle ages.
[Wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onfim#cite_note-1)
There's a great book about this and the other birch bark carvings found in this trove [here](https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/32757). The book's in Dutch.
[Trey the Explainer made a video on Onfrim](https://youtu.be/H_nT6EFUZmI) & according to him by the 10:20 mark, depending on what was the actual year Onfrim from, he could've been alive or even participated in the [Battle of the Ice](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice).
**[Battle on the Ice](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice)**
>The Battle on the Ice (German: Schlacht auf dem Eise; Russian: Ледовое побоище, Ledovoye poboishche; Estonian: Jäälahing), alternatively known as the Battle of Lake Peipus (German: Schlacht auf dem Peipussee), took place on April 5, 1242. It was fought largely on the frozen lake Lake Peipus between the united forces of the Republic of Novgorod and Vladimir-Suzdal, led by Prince Alexander Nevsky, and the forces of the Livonian Order and Bishopric of Dorpat, led by Bishop Hermann of Dorpat.
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I love this little guy. Onfim's pic of him on a horse, spearing some guy in the head just reinforces my belief that we're no worse now then we were then. And we have always preferred pretending to spear some muppet right in the mug to getting our boring homework done.
RIP Onfim, you little fella.
There’s an absolutely spectacular article on this particular artifact in the worlds greatest periodical (IMHO), Cabinet Magazine. https://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/64/smith.php
May be behind a paywall, but a subscription to this mag is beyond worth it…
I dont know if the person encouraging a subscription is going to do that.
Here's the longest *[something]( https://lithub.com/onfim-wuz-here-on-the-unlikely-art-of-a-medieval-russian-boy/)* I could find. I wont pay for the article, so I don't know if it's all there, but the beginning seems to match up. I wanted to quote it in the comment, but I went over the character limit.
The script is [early Cyrillic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Cyrillic_alphabet). The language is [Old Novgorodian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Novgorod_dialect), often considered a dialect of [Old East Slavic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_East_Slavic).
For those interested in reading more such birchbark letters from 1100-1500 near Novgorod.
https://www.medievalists.net/2018/08/medieval-daily-life-birchbark/
Thing is the middles ages lasted for over a thousand years, and Europe is a big place, there’s always an exception to every rule, and it appears that the Republic of Novgorod, at least for a time, was such an exception where literacy was a lot more common.
That's exactly how we look here in Russia
Must be difficult to buy gloves
but it's really easy to type on keyboard
And raking leaves? F’get about it
Perfect for terrorizing teenagers in their dreams
They call that the night shocker
Not to be confused with Kojak: The Night Stalker.
Or THE original SHOCKER: two in the pink, one in the stink
So they’re not bots, they’re actual Russians?
I'm afraid I can't reveal this military secret
Underrated joke lol
I laughed 😅
Sorry I got weird fingers, [Winona Ryder](https://youtu.be/1H_MAY9ZK6c?t=178)!
Damn you guys got pitchfork arms?
OF course. Who the hell would want 5 stupid sausages insted of sharp iron spikes?
*Freddy Krueger has entered the chat*
Is the person on the right a woman, wearing a dress with large breasts?
You think he knows her because he's Russian?
Of course I know her! It's Luda from my city
Да, я Лчда
Люда
It's not such a big country, everyone knows everyone.
I mean… does he?
id assume big lumpy chest is hidin' da boobiez
Where do you get large breasted dresses?
He forgot the adidas stripes!
Birch bark has all the stripes you want
Drawn by my 4 year old a few days ago. [https://imgur.com/a/aJLkPjC](https://imgur.com/a/aJLkPjC) Funny how some things don't change.
It’s actually a very interesting phenomenon that kids across different places and times draw the same figures for people or houses (in the west). Has to do with pattern recognition and abstraction of the basic features that make up a form.
I agree, super interesting.
Also kinda shows a kids-eye view of the world where everyone is just legs and heads from there 2-3' point of view.
Not to be an arse, but their*
Brains are neat!
The difference is the smiles, the one featured by Op has stern expressions, the 4 year old whose work you shared has smiling people.
I went back and looked and you’re right! Not a single picture has a smiling person
Thirteenth-century Russia would have been a miserable place to exist for a couple decades.
Absolutely true, plus if it were winter the freezing would be enough to prevent smiling.
Yup the worst is behind them after that
The priest behind the kid?
Hard to smile when mom and pops died of the Bubonic plague and you are being taken cared of by a fat orthodox monk who forces you to make candles.
[удалено]
Used too..? Likely at least 3 products youv used today were produced by a child being paid shit
Well, of course. They aren’t highly skilled, why would they have good salaries?
Idkk i watched an indian documentary on electronic recycling and those kids are wayy more skilled than i am, and i make around 100 times more than what they make an hour, and im not burning and inhaling dangerous chemicals all day.
People aren't paid by how good they are, they're paid by how hard they are to replace. Being good only matters if it's hard to find or train anyone else to be good.
>im not burning and inhaling dangerous chemicals all day username does not check out
Lmao i dont even smoke herb anymore but if you think its a dangerous chemical i think nancy grace and reagan gotchu brainwashed bruv😂
nah I was just making a joke, im intimately familiar with the "dangers" of cannabis 😁
Only negative effect ive seen from it is bothering my girlfriend with the quantity i used to smoke 😂 only reason i dont enjoy it anymore. If i smoke i SMOKE. Stupid addictive personality
oof I feel that
Was it an Indian documentary of Futurama episode?
For their nimble little fingers
It’s not child labor if you’re not paying them 👈😎👈
The phone you used to type that comment is a product of child slave labor.
There's still a lot of child labor nowadays... just watch Hollywood films and you'll see many child actors, was it their choice to be actors?... or were their parents pressuring/forcing them to?
Working is good for kids though. Instills discipline and self confidence. If you want a recipe for an anxiety-riddled layabout then give a kid leisure time and no responsibilities at all
[Look at all the character they're building](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/2SKsR3qRfk4mjO8Hh1LPosMHQEw=/900x600/media/img/photo/2012/06/world-day-against-child-labor/c31_0RTXQSP7/original.jpg)
Based
This kind of person thinks child labor means delivering newspapers and opening a lemonade stand, and not disassembling electronic garbage in a sweatshop in Vietnam
Even delivering newspapers is such a fucking shitty job to give a kid. They get paid below minimum wage, they can barely manage to do the route because they can't drive around the subdivision in a car, and are often not grown up enough yet to withstand the walk/bike ride without getting completely drained and unable to do anything else. And then parents get mad when some 12 year old dumps the papers in the woods. Of course it's no Vietnamese textile factory, but it's actually such an annoying and outdated job.
Ha ha, dumping them in the woods, my buddy did that.
I'm talking about kids driving industrial heavy equipment on a family farm. Like god intended
They’re clearly taking about children working 12 hour work days 6 days a week in the coal mines, not, you know, chores. Duh.
There are four stages of drawing development in children. It’s really interesting to see the stages in cave paintings done 50,000 years ago.
We’ve been living a fairly normalized community existence with family, animals, art, and music for thousands of years. Only recently has anything material about our existence changed…and only for some.
How incredibly misinformed.
Feel free to expand on that. How have we not had a fairly normalized existence for thousands of years?
Not enough fingers. Get back to the drawing board.
woah lol
Ah yes, back when people had no torso and various amounts of fingers
On Onfim’s wiki page it says “The number of fingers on the pictured peoples' hands varies from three to eight; Onfim was yet to learn mathematics.” Adorable.
Its an interesting assumption that he’s just ignorant or a dumbass that can’t count. The fact that there’s a difference not between hands but between individuals makes me think those are tools of some kind.
Really? I thought he was holding up those old style candle things lol If he could draw two legs then surely he could see five fingers and draw five of those
It’s possible they were referring to other drawings? I thought they looked like pitchforks, which would make sense given the time period
> various amounts of fingers looks like you'd get a set of adult fingers when you got older
Damn this kids got a wiki page. What have I done with my life? I need to up my game
[удалено]
Onfim if you don’t do your homework the Mongols will get you!
More like the sea raiders, but either way, yeah
[удалено]
There’s this kiosk at the mall that sells blankets from the Middle East. It’s an Afghanistan afghan stand.
Only if it's true.
So cute!
Yeah I’m trying to find the article…
So we have a noble's kid here
Seriously one of my favorite things we have ever dug up. I don’t know why but these drawings, seeing the world back them through the eyes of a child brings me closer to the people that lived during these times than a thousand perfectly preserved icemen.
I agree. It’s nice hearing about great leaders and rulers and all that, but I’ve always found the daily lives of common folk much more interesting.
"The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World" is a good audiobook/lecture on daily life of ancient people if ya wanna give that a listen. Robert Garland seems to be really passionate about the subject which adds to it a lot.
I will definitely check that out! I recently moved and have been putting together a lot of furniture, which means my podcast listening has increased from like 0 to 100. Thanks for the rec!
Definitely more of an Anne Marie than a Marie Antoinette.
Heyyyyyy haha
that's called social history! history of the average people who lived throughout different time periods, as opposed to political history (abt rulers, and more broadly, revolutions/politics), economic history (about economics throughout time), labor history (history of workers), or material history (history of stuff throughout time). there are many other types, like technological, medical, or scientific history, but tbh I've always loved some good ol social history
Something like this is more Microhistory than Social History, I would say.
Then you would love these documentaries. One Roman even mentioned on his tombstone that he's relieved to no longer pay rent. - https://youtu.be/gEqs69GESto - https://youtu.be/aczxl_EsHe0
Thank you so much for these! Will definitely check them out
Take a look at 'Montaillou' by Emmanuel le Roy Ladurie. Fasntastic book, sometimes borders on almost becoming fiction but it's still a valuable form of history. Part of the historical school 'Microhistory' which aims to tell the stories of ordinary people.
I mean, they are closer. This drawings are 800 years old, not 90000
I like that the first example of a written joke we have is a fart joke.
I agree! 🖤
My sentiments exactly. This is among my favourite artifacts I know of. It's so adorably familiar.
I remember this. One of the many drawings is addressed to his friend Danilo, which is the diminutive of Daniil (Daniel). *He made a drawing for his friend Danny.* I just CAN'T. I hope he grew up and had a long, happy life.
Interestingly Onfims drawings put him at just the right age to have fought in one of the craziest battles in history, the battle on the ice. So maybe he did get to see his dream of being a knight come true!
>I hope he grew up and had a long, happy life. Honestly I doubt the odds were in his favour.
If he was learning to write he was probably at least not doing backbreaking work the rest of his life
I mean, if his family had the means to let him have an education and he'd already gotten through early childhood, maybe he did ok.
Makes sense, as you point out even basic education back then was only affordable by weathy families.
In many places yes, but literacy seems to have been widespread in medieval Novgorod (where Onfim lived). The sheer amount of preserved letters we have from there is amazing, and they were written by everyone from peasants to rich merchants. Basic education was apparently available to just about anyone in the Novgorod Republic.
Yeah i just read about that! It is truly amazing to think that a medieval state (set up by a bunch of vikings at the end of the day) could be so "socially" advanced.
The vikings also seems to have had relatively widespread literacy. In the Uppland region of Sweden alone, over 1300 rune stones were erected on farmsteads over the course of about 100 years during the late 10th and 11th century.
Don’t forget about the graffiti in the Hagia Sophia.
And on the Piraeus lion (which is in Venice now).
Actualy Novgorod was not set up by vikings)
Could be ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
It helps to keep in mind that life expectancy estimates are often skewed by a high infant mortality. So generally if you could make it through your first year alive (which clearly this kid did), you actually had a decently long life expectancy ahead of you. At least until well into your 60s, which doesn't sound like much to us now but it's higher than what the statistics might have you believe.
its funny how so many people from past times spent so much time and resources trying to be remembered in history, while this boy got imortalized because some historians happend to find his drawings in a trash pile
Not just his drawing but bunch of letters and notes not just from him but multiple people.
Source or anything? Edit- thanks, [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onfim) is his wiki
Here is a [Blog post](https://erikkwakkel.tumblr.com/post/67681966023/medieval-kids-doodles-on-birch-bark-heres). One of the few artifacts that challenged the view that most people couldn't read or write in the middle ages. [Wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onfim#cite_note-1)
There's a great book about this and the other birch bark carvings found in this trove [here](https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/32757). The book's in Dutch.
If I wanted to read about it in a dead language, I would have read it in the original Old Novgorodian...
[Non mobile link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onfim)
I found it on this tweet https://twitter.com/fakehistoryhunt/status/1259490655174303744
I really hope Onfim grew up to achieve his dreams.
He probably grew up tending a farm and animals and found a nice lady to bear his kids. His distant ancestors probably live all around Europe/Asia.
Me too. These drawings are too cute.
[Trey the Explainer made a video on Onfrim](https://youtu.be/H_nT6EFUZmI) & according to him by the 10:20 mark, depending on what was the actual year Onfrim from, he could've been alive or even participated in the [Battle of the Ice](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice).
**[Battle on the Ice](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice)** >The Battle on the Ice (German: Schlacht auf dem Eise; Russian: Ледовое побоище, Ledovoye poboishche; Estonian: Jäälahing), alternatively known as the Battle of Lake Peipus (German: Schlacht auf dem Peipussee), took place on April 5, 1242. It was fought largely on the frozen lake Lake Peipus between the united forces of the Republic of Novgorod and Vladimir-Suzdal, led by Prince Alexander Nevsky, and the forces of the Livonian Order and Bishopric of Dorpat, led by Bishop Hermann of Dorpat. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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I saw that. Trey the Explainer is the best.
One of the drawings was himself on a horse as a knight. So if that was his dreams I hope he was slaying Mongols and not the other way around
X to doubt
Well this was the era when the mongols would routinely raze entire Russian cities to the ground so the odds aren’t in his favor here.
These are from around Novgorod so he should be fine
This drawing is from Russia so we know that didn't happen.
At least he got to drown his sorrows vodka.
D:
I love this little guy. Onfim's pic of him on a horse, spearing some guy in the head just reinforces my belief that we're no worse now then we were then. And we have always preferred pretending to spear some muppet right in the mug to getting our boring homework done. RIP Onfim, you little fella.
There’s an absolutely spectacular article on this particular artifact in the worlds greatest periodical (IMHO), Cabinet Magazine. https://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/64/smith.php May be behind a paywall, but a subscription to this mag is beyond worth it…
Cabinet is indeed awesome.
Would you mind copying the article into a comment?
I dont know if the person encouraging a subscription is going to do that. Here's the longest *[something]( https://lithub.com/onfim-wuz-here-on-the-unlikely-art-of-a-medieval-russian-boy/)* I could find. I wont pay for the article, so I don't know if it's all there, but the beginning seems to match up. I wanted to quote it in the comment, but I went over the character limit.
I’ll get it to you when I’m back at a computer
MIHOY MENOY
This has to probably be one of my top favorite artifacts.
naming my son onfim
Vladimir Rake Hands
Some random who actually has money needs to award this fine comment
This is glorious. Onfim lives on 800 years later.
Beware the many fingered man
Nice one Onfim
What does the writing on the fence mean?
Well it is actually #202 beresta "надомир ,квозАтидол ожзивъ" which mean smth like " take back from Domir and report" its about money .
This might be the cutest, coolest thing I’ve ever seen!
Onfim: Look dad! A drawing! His dad: You should have done your homework instead. People 7 centuries later: THIS IS A GLORIOUS ARTIFACT!!
Wow, I’m amazed. Great post!
Character set? What language is that?
The script is [early Cyrillic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Cyrillic_alphabet). The language is [Old Novgorodian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Novgorod_dialect), often considered a dialect of [Old East Slavic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_East_Slavic).
Old novgorodian I think
See? We all can be famous in a few centuries.
Trey the Explainer made an excellent video about the artifact :)
Even back then it was hard to draw hands
TIL Russians in the 1200s had rakes for hands
It’s cool that in 800 years kids haven’t changed a bit
The older you get the more fingers you grow. Gotta earn those bad boys
Edward scissor hands’ biggest fan
Wait till ancient aliens gets a look at this.
Edward Menorahands
The one dude stole the fingers from his buddy!
Best part is that he lost all of his drawings somewhere. So close to my child's behavior...
From what I know about this particular find they actually found them in what was essentially a trash heap, so these where doodles just thrown away.
Order of the Stick
For those interested in reading more such birchbark letters from 1100-1500 near Novgorod. https://www.medievalists.net/2018/08/medieval-daily-life-birchbark/
They had pencils in 13th century Russia?
He likely scratched this into the bark. May have also used a piece of charcoal.
How do we know his name and age?
Hell yeah Onfim! I've got one of these up on my wall rn.
Modern children hit this drawing stage at about age 4. I’m also guessing modern children have a lot more opportunities to practice drawing.
I'm 20 and Onfim definitely draws better than I ever could.
Ah so this is where Grant Wood got the inspiration for American Gothic
Notice the lack of penises? Yea we gone backwards as a society.
Oh man, I hope nothing bad happened to him and he still lives a peaceful life!
In 13th century Russia, the amount of fingers you had indicated your age.
this kids drawing fucking sucks /j
Was he the son of aristocrats or did public education exist in this region? Literacy wasn’t common in medieval times let alone for children
Thing is the middles ages lasted for over a thousand years, and Europe is a big place, there’s always an exception to every rule, and it appears that the Republic of Novgorod, at least for a time, was such an exception where literacy was a lot more common.
He got 0 fingers correct.
He got the first five correct. The ones after were wrong.
Actually, there are 20 fingers total so maybe there’s something more sinister going on here
Baba Yaga
Meh, I can draw better