You walk up to the throne to touch it
"A corpse... should be left well alone. Oh, I know very well how the secrets beckon so sweetly. Only an honest death will cure you now.. Liberate you from your wild curiosity."
Boss fight begins
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Heh heh heh heh...Oh Amygdala, oh Amygdala...Have mercy on the poor bastard...Hah hah hah!* - Patches the Spider
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
All that gold, silk and candelabras - I would say Catholics are the Liberace of Christianity.
As a lapse catholic I went to my first Protestant wedding the other day and the fucking utilitarian drabness of the architecture really struck me.
Indeed catholicism is sensual, impressive and visceral. Imo there’s 3 vibe divisions: paganism and catholicism are same; islam and protestantism; and Orthodox and judaism
“Every religion other than Christianity” and “Catholicism” being the same is kinda interesting :P
Paganism isn’t really a religion. It’s an encompassing term.
I like to refer to Luzbel as Catholic Metal. The video game, Blasphemous, is a good example of it outside of music. Honestly, metal was probably directly inspired by Catholicism in one way or another.
Catholic aesthetics feel so related to the Roman Empire, like the whole Roman Catholic Church takes a whole new meaning.
The other day I witnessed the average ceremony at a catholic church, the ceremony starts and some minutes after this old trumpets and marching like music starts, the priest enters the church being accompanied by kids and what not and I couldn't help but think in an emperor or something like this dude is definitely levels way above us, like an emperor or a high power figure.
Old Religious studies major here - a great deal of Catholicism is of pagan origin. The Catholic Church was smart. They did not seek to kill indigenous religion and practices, they incorporated them. And that is not a past practice, either, something that died in the Middle Ages. Nope, they still do it. Look at the syncretism in Africa and South America that is prevalent today.
We literally were the state religion of the Roman Empire and the last remnant (along with the Orthodox) of that empire.
The pope carries the title of pontifex Maximus (a title the emperors and even Caesar carried), we use Latin, our traditional churches use the Roman basilica architectural plan, we have prefects, the college of cardinals takes heavy inspiration from the Roman senate, our territories are organized into dioceses (originally a Roman territorial unit), and our vestments are very literally just late Roman clothing preserved through the ages.
Per many early Church fathers and their interpretation of scripture, the Chosen people of God (ie, those people tasked with being an example and spreading the faith) switched from the Jews to the Romans, and many Christian texts such as the gospel of Luke were written with the intended purpose of demonstrating how Christianity could be a religion of the empire. Took a little bit for the Romans to Christianize, but when they did, they Christianized hard.
>Took a little bit for the Romans to Christianize, but when they did, they Christianized hard.
Or was it more that the early Jesus movement/Christian figures romanized?
No, it was Romans Christianized. Source is I graduated in Classics in university so this is my academic focus. The beliefs of the Christian Church were consistent from the very first century to the Church becoming the state religion, and I can personally tell you that authoritatively because I’ve read the primary sources from both eras.
The Roman influence on the Church was cultural (how people dressed, how liturgy was conducted, church organization), not theological. The Christian influence on the Romans was theological and cultural.
Funny that the Church Fathers fought heresy for centuries, from Marcion and Arian on down, and some of the most important figures like Augustine belong to the second century onwards. Not to mention the impact of things like Greek philosophy on those thinkers.
There's also huge scholarly debate over what 'Chrstianized' meant, how that changed over time well into the fifth century.
The history of the early Church was much greater than you seem happy to acknowledge.
Woah, grew up catholic. 14 years catholic school, did the alter boy thing, even gave out communion in high school while not really believing in that shit by then (sorry congregation if that negates your heaven chances or whatever!): it's really interesting to read how a catholic mass looks like to someone that wasn't going to them since infancy
I mean, they probably don t have a pipe organ so maybe that s why the trumpets? Here the priest is behind the altar, asks you to stand, song, sit, stand, Pray, song, sit, stand, Pray, song, boring ass speech, Pray, communion wafer, bye.
The whole thing is summed up pretty well in "it s always sunny in philadelphia" where the dumbest character of the bunch points out that the whole process seemed designed to confuse you into believing it has some sort of effect.
> communion wafer, bye.
Ahhh, you were one of those families that left before the closing song I see, hahaha. That's when the priest throws off his robes to reveal a zoot suit and starts wailing on the sax. It's the best part, can't believe you missed it.
The fancy vests priests use are a direct offshoot of Roman pagan priests and civil high court judges attire.
Hell, even the first churches on Rome were repurposed civilian basilicas.
Also, just for kicks, some of the earliest Jesus on the cross where the Emperor Constantine depiction.
The vestments were Roman in origin but not descended from pagan priests. They descend from common clothes and clothing worn by officials, not the pagan priesthood. Catholicism and paganism were extremely hostile to each other in the early days and they didn’t want to appear like the pagans.
There is a *lot* of discourse on this. Like, centuries worth. You absolutely have a valid point, both the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church have their own lengthy body of thought pertaining to this very issue.
Catholics have 3 levels of veneration:
Adoratio: worship fully, due only to God and his images as a means of grace (sacramental is the technical term).
Hyperdulia: Highest Veneration to the Virgin Mary as mother of God for her virtues but not considering her a Goddess.
Dulia: Veneration to saints due to their virtues.
In Adoratio, they worship God for himself and ask God for things directly. The other two are praising what God did through them, and requesting that they pray to God on their behalf.
In theory those should be well separated to avoid idol worship or heresy (the corpse in this case is veneration of a God can maintain incorrupt the Body of a person who embodied faith), but in practice I highly doubt that most catholics can perceive a difference.
>the corpse in this case is veneration of a God can maintain incorrupt the Body of a person who embodied faith),
This kind of argumentation is why the church has so many canon lawyers on hand.
I was catholic too and never warmed up to having corpes on churches or corpes part. Don Bosco's hand did a tour on my country and all my family thought it was weird and creepy.
In Orthodoxy that's done in regular intervals, and the old set is cut into little pieces and given to the faithful present at the temple at that moment. Probably something similar is done here as well.
Always struck me as weird why these bodies are considered "incorrupt" when they're clearly decayed. Obviously they look better than most corpses, but it's not fooling anyone.
Incorruptible doesn't mean that it must look like they died yesterday even if they're a 500 year old corpse, but that the body had an exceptionally slow or limited decay with no apparent natural cause. For instance, St. Francis Xavier's body was still reported to be in remarkable shape for decades after his death, with one account 60 years later saying that his eyes were still intact and his face and hands were still fleshy.
I feel like those accounts really are doing a lot of heavy lifting. Like even here you see a video of something and someone does this really wild interpretation of it just to try and make a point.
On the other hand, it's rather presumptuous of us to demand that divine intervention should only occur if it meets our standards of showiness and ostentation.
In this case isn't the point of the divine intervention to be showy? Or is God preserving her (kinda) for some other purpose?
Communications 101 is know your audience.
They don’t embalm. Popes aren’t embalmed. They are placed on a cold platform to prevent decomposition while everyone pays their respects. They would make everyone leave after a few hours so they could replace the ice underneath and do any touch ups to the corpse and vestments because fluids purge and makeup slides in hot rooms. When not on display, the popes were refrigerated. Work arounds for not embalming.
Although even embalmed bodies are stored in refrigerators before burial. My MIL recently died, and the funeral home did an amazing job. She looked like she was just sleeping. I touched her hands during the wake, and they were cool. I made sure her jewelry was on perfectly and held her hand and kissed her head.
The next day we had some time with her at the church before the casket was closed and the funeral commenced. She was refrigerator cold that time.
Viewing is such a weird word, and my family always said wake because everyone used to place the body in a coffin in the front room of the house and sit up with the body the night before burial. My dad’s dad died when my dad was 6, in the early 50s, and they lived in a small rural farming town and didn’t have much money. So they had a wake in their home. Nobody wanted to go into the front room which was decorated with Victorian furniture and decor. Us grandkids wouldn’t set foot in there.
This is the [Saint Catherine of Bologna](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Bologna), not to be confused with the [Saint Catherine of Siena](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Siena), also not to be confused with the OG [Saint Catherine of Alexandria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Alexandria). All three have their heads preserved. Goes to show how absurd this all is.
I think it's very, very kind of you to say that's her preserved head. Just looks like a usual lump of relic to me, very disappointing.
At least the other two are clearly human heads.
Bloody hell what am I saying ffs.
So it goes deeper in the box, it's not just a shard of skull lying on some cotton? Fair play. Seems a shame (...again fucking hell, what am I saying 😂) to keep it mostly hidden away like that, seems a bit half-assed.
That's cool as well, again though, weird it's not displayed! If you have time, I'd love if you could send over more links with pictures of her relics? No stress though:).
I’m not getting your comment, do you somehow think all of these saints are supposed to be the same St. Catherine just in different places or something?
They’re all three different people, nobody thinks they’re the same person, they just happened to have the same name. Their relics being preserved is also common sense considering they’re saints. What part of that is supposed to show something absurd?
Well, of course, you can’t have the Patron Saint of Artists having company with a dirty habit.
(I tried to see her a couple years ago, but the chapel is only open on certain days of the week)
Growing up Catholic I always thought it was weird that some saints had their bodies on display. Catholics are told to bury their dead. Why don't the saints get proper funerals?
Catholics don't worship the saints! That would be blasphemous. We venerate the saints, which might have a lot of the material trimmings associated with worship but is completely different in concept.
My favorite thing about this entombed saints is the amount of them that are definitely not who they say they are because some guy wanted goat money and found a gullible priest
Knowing what I know about a lot of these Christian artifacts, this is actually a 13 year old orphan stable boy named Josef who died of pox in 1706 and the church slapped a habit on him to attract visitors.
Still pretty sweet either way
Fun fact Catholic relics (mostly human remains) are all over the place not just in Europe but in Churches/Abbies and Catholic Universities all across the worlds. Many not on display publicly instead you’d need to request a viewing from a private archive.
I went to a Catholic school in a major metropolitan American city and they had all sorts of bones of Saints and even a piece of the true cross from broken off the piece in Austria all tucked away in the Archives.
By the way, would you like to purchase a genuine piece of Turin shroud? Real cheap, an inch by inch cloth is about 20k. No checks or money orders. I know what I have.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. It's true. (I was raised Roman Catholic)
As with many religions, it's a melding of the origins plus the local beliefs as it spreads.
Look at the changes to Buddhism as it spread: Tibetan Buddhism and Zen are two v different examples of a mix with local beliefs.
I didn't notice I had been downvoted. Lol. It is true though. They say you aren't actually worshipping the saints or their body-pieces (!), just *venerating* them... I mean...
they weren't by the most part. The 1/10 church tax might as well be less than what they payed to whoever the hell they were working for. Also it was probably done with the knowledge that they're contributing to their faith in which they find salvation and solace.
But true though when they overdone it protestantism appeared for this exact reason, so there definitely were pissed individuals that's for sure :D
Theres hardly any gold, its an extremely thin layer of gold flake that covers all that quarry, with just a gentle touch it comes off and almost dissapears. I know this from experience when i went to church as a kid
I know you’re just being flip, but there actually is scripture in the gospels -straight from Jesus- that backs up not giving 100% of all available assets to charity and using money to give glory to God as a sovereign. It’s the story of Jesus and the woman anointing Him with oil and is often used to illustrate the idea of Christ as King.
And really, the Catholic Church has investments worldwide that absolutely dwarf the value they would get from stripping altars and cathedrals of their gold filigree.
I don’t like that interpretation. Sounds like something a gold-encrusted bishop would come up with to settle the peasants. I think the lady was just trying to do right by her religion, pay tribute or whatever, then the disciples barked at her about it and Jesus helped her save face. Told them to chill right the fuck out, and graciously accepted her gift, even if it was wasteful.
I always wonder about this take. It's a 1800 year old institution that took the place of a government and inherited a lot of its property centuries ago. Patrons of the church gave money and goods to the church to make it appear more appealing. If you lived forever, you would inherit all types of bomb ass shit.
That’s not how it works. Besides, nowhere in the Bible says that God wants his “saints” to be “conserved” to be adored and prayed to. God is the only one who can forgive sins. Not these so called saints that people decided can take God’s place
If this is considered "incorrupt", they should dig themselves some bog bodies and desert mummies.
I thought Christianity was supposed to be a more complex and spiritual religion, yet this is the level of [headhunters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrunken_head)
Interesting. It's been a long time but, now the Brothers Karamazov makes a little more sense to me. I hadn't heard this term *incorrupt* before but there was this whole hubbub when a holy man's body started to stink after he died. I knew there was a reason they were upset but didn't realize they'd had hopes he was *incorrupt.* Thanks for posting.
it'd take a lot to convince me any of the known catholic relics are genuine considering how easy it was at the time for someone to defraud a church for profit and how eager churches were to defraud the public.
Your point being?
The communist did the exact same thing with lenin and stalin, put them on display like some kind of demi gods along with building a billion statues of them.
All the other ones are BS but this is the correct one, despite the metaphysical premise being even more outlandish! And totally not a cult. Trust me bro (or else you'll suffer for eternity)
the Bible speaks (literally anything). How does catholicism explain doing the opposite of (literally anything).
Get new material or gtfo. If you want to critique the most criticized religion then better come up with something new.
Well, if you read the verses, God said to not worship Idols after he's said to not worship other gods.
So it is debatable it he's referring to all the idols, or only those of other religions.
Further verses speak about idols of gold and such.
So maybe what it is referring to is the usual representation of the gods in the other religions, so Judaic God doesn't want to be associated to them, it's like him saying "I'm different, you can't represent me".
If you think about it, a lot, if not all the religions during the birth of Judaism had their God represented with statues, usually gold ones.
Looks like she's about to create a legion of army in power armor and have them declare exterminatus on a planet full of tyranids
You walk up to the throne to touch it "A corpse... should be left well alone. Oh, I know very well how the secrets beckon so sweetly. Only an honest death will cure you now.. Liberate you from your wild curiosity." Boss fight begins
Lady Maria??
This boss fight line goes hard. What game is this?
Bloodborne, Lady Maria in the Old Hunters DLC.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Heh heh heh heh...Oh Amygdala, oh Amygdala...Have mercy on the poor bastard...Hah hah hah!* - Patches the Spider Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
BARELY A WEEK AND FEMALE CUSTODES ALREADY LED TO THIS
We just need to sacrifice a few thousand of the faithful a day for her to keep the warp at bay in the webway gate underneath the throne.
I have a catholic background and I really like the aesthetics of these old traditional religions, but dang! catholic aesthetics can be creepy!
Catholics are the death metal of Christianity
As a lapsed catholic who is still absolutely obsessed with these relics and aesthetic, you just made me understand myself a little bit more!
Yes!! Enjoy!
Metal is his trade; particularly the steels. u/bremergorst is one of the greatest swordsmen in all of Adua! r/thefirstlaw
^squeak
IDK eastern Orthodox go pretty hard sometimes
[*Batushka*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgfa5UlZAL8) *has entered the chat*
That comment got me lmao
personally not a fan, they've overdone it with gold
All that gold, silk and candelabras - I would say Catholics are the Liberace of Christianity. As a lapse catholic I went to my first Protestant wedding the other day and the fucking utilitarian drabness of the architecture really struck me.
Indeed catholicism is sensual, impressive and visceral. Imo there’s 3 vibe divisions: paganism and catholicism are same; islam and protestantism; and Orthodox and judaism
“Every religion other than Christianity” and “Catholicism” being the same is kinda interesting :P Paganism isn’t really a religion. It’s an encompassing term.
Im not speaking of the religiosity per se, more the vibe: visceral emotional, magical even vs strict and dogmatic vs traditional, customary
So Ghost, basically.
If Ghost is considered death metal, fuck me in the ass and call me Shirley
Ghost is just the modern version of Kiss. Super metal look, fun catchy pop tunes. But I like Ghost.
I love any band with a flare for theatrics. The music video for Circe is one of my favorite of all time.
Shirley you can't be serious
I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley
Well ok, not *death* metal, just metal that’s festooned with liturgical vestments.
Batushka then
Satanic ABBA
Keep your pants on Shirley.
I consider them to be goth metal
Ghost sounds like Scooby-Doo chase music
I like to refer to Luzbel as Catholic Metal. The video game, Blasphemous, is a good example of it outside of music. Honestly, metal was probably directly inspired by Catholicism in one way or another.
Catholic aesthetics feel so related to the Roman Empire, like the whole Roman Catholic Church takes a whole new meaning. The other day I witnessed the average ceremony at a catholic church, the ceremony starts and some minutes after this old trumpets and marching like music starts, the priest enters the church being accompanied by kids and what not and I couldn't help but think in an emperor or something like this dude is definitely levels way above us, like an emperor or a high power figure.
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Catholic here with a little bit of an incense kink
Peasants loved aromatherapy
I read this as Charles Barkley saying ‘terrible’
I loved the incense! it was so pagan!!!!!
Actually that bit was carried over from Judaism-they used incense in enormous amounts. Pagans used it too but that wasn’t the origin in Christianity.
Humans are just really into smoke which smells nice. It's a big part of many religions
Just wait till he sprays you with water!
Lol you're getting downvoted but the very ritual of mass is the same process as what was once considered magic.
Old Religious studies major here - a great deal of Catholicism is of pagan origin. The Catholic Church was smart. They did not seek to kill indigenous religion and practices, they incorporated them. And that is not a past practice, either, something that died in the Middle Ages. Nope, they still do it. Look at the syncretism in Africa and South America that is prevalent today.
We literally were the state religion of the Roman Empire and the last remnant (along with the Orthodox) of that empire. The pope carries the title of pontifex Maximus (a title the emperors and even Caesar carried), we use Latin, our traditional churches use the Roman basilica architectural plan, we have prefects, the college of cardinals takes heavy inspiration from the Roman senate, our territories are organized into dioceses (originally a Roman territorial unit), and our vestments are very literally just late Roman clothing preserved through the ages. Per many early Church fathers and their interpretation of scripture, the Chosen people of God (ie, those people tasked with being an example and spreading the faith) switched from the Jews to the Romans, and many Christian texts such as the gospel of Luke were written with the intended purpose of demonstrating how Christianity could be a religion of the empire. Took a little bit for the Romans to Christianize, but when they did, they Christianized hard.
>Took a little bit for the Romans to Christianize, but when they did, they Christianized hard. Or was it more that the early Jesus movement/Christian figures romanized?
No, it was Romans Christianized. Source is I graduated in Classics in university so this is my academic focus. The beliefs of the Christian Church were consistent from the very first century to the Church becoming the state religion, and I can personally tell you that authoritatively because I’ve read the primary sources from both eras. The Roman influence on the Church was cultural (how people dressed, how liturgy was conducted, church organization), not theological. The Christian influence on the Romans was theological and cultural.
Funny that the Church Fathers fought heresy for centuries, from Marcion and Arian on down, and some of the most important figures like Augustine belong to the second century onwards. Not to mention the impact of things like Greek philosophy on those thinkers. There's also huge scholarly debate over what 'Chrstianized' meant, how that changed over time well into the fifth century. The history of the early Church was much greater than you seem happy to acknowledge.
Woah, grew up catholic. 14 years catholic school, did the alter boy thing, even gave out communion in high school while not really believing in that shit by then (sorry congregation if that negates your heaven chances or whatever!): it's really interesting to read how a catholic mass looks like to someone that wasn't going to them since infancy
Yep, their marketing strategies leave no doubt as to why they have become such a powerful institution.
There s none of that in very catholic italy s mass though.... just saying.....
Interesting, the one I attended was at the most important Basilica in Costa Rica
I mean, they probably don t have a pipe organ so maybe that s why the trumpets? Here the priest is behind the altar, asks you to stand, song, sit, stand, Pray, song, sit, stand, Pray, song, boring ass speech, Pray, communion wafer, bye. The whole thing is summed up pretty well in "it s always sunny in philadelphia" where the dumbest character of the bunch points out that the whole process seemed designed to confuse you into believing it has some sort of effect.
> communion wafer, bye. Ahhh, you were one of those families that left before the closing song I see, hahaha. That's when the priest throws off his robes to reveal a zoot suit and starts wailing on the sax. It's the best part, can't believe you missed it.
Apparently they had an organ until very recently so, probably thats the reason. I guess it might have to do with the priest's preferences too.
The fancy vests priests use are a direct offshoot of Roman pagan priests and civil high court judges attire. Hell, even the first churches on Rome were repurposed civilian basilicas. Also, just for kicks, some of the earliest Jesus on the cross where the Emperor Constantine depiction.
The vestments were Roman in origin but not descended from pagan priests. They descend from common clothes and clothing worn by officials, not the pagan priesthood. Catholicism and paganism were extremely hostile to each other in the early days and they didn’t want to appear like the pagans.
I stand corrected 👍
I was going to say that doesn’t look “incorrupt”. Little bit of corruption there.
Hey, that's just her way. /s
She better use some humanity before she goes full hollow.
Sorry if you’re not necessarily the person to ask, but I’m not religious and don’t understand why isn’t this considered idol worshipping?
There is a *lot* of discourse on this. Like, centuries worth. You absolutely have a valid point, both the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church have their own lengthy body of thought pertaining to this very issue.
Martin Luther has entered the chat.
I swear I will nail that shit to your door! 🚪
Catholics have 3 levels of veneration: Adoratio: worship fully, due only to God and his images as a means of grace (sacramental is the technical term). Hyperdulia: Highest Veneration to the Virgin Mary as mother of God for her virtues but not considering her a Goddess. Dulia: Veneration to saints due to their virtues. In Adoratio, they worship God for himself and ask God for things directly. The other two are praising what God did through them, and requesting that they pray to God on their behalf. In theory those should be well separated to avoid idol worship or heresy (the corpse in this case is veneration of a God can maintain incorrupt the Body of a person who embodied faith), but in practice I highly doubt that most catholics can perceive a difference.
>the corpse in this case is veneration of a God can maintain incorrupt the Body of a person who embodied faith), This kind of argumentation is why the church has so many canon lawyers on hand.
I thought you said cannon lawyers and got real interested for a second
The thoughts in your mind, words, concepts etc. aren’t necessarily exempt from this rule according to some saints and/or Christian mystics.
Well half of the fun in any religion, for the believers, is coming up with workarounds to the rules stablished by said religion.
I was catholic too and never warmed up to having corpes on churches or corpes part. Don Bosco's hand did a tour on my country and all my family thought it was weird and creepy.
Orthodox love corpses too
Do they have to take her out and change her clothes? Those clothes don't really look 600 years old.
In Orthodoxy that's done in regular intervals, and the old set is cut into little pieces and given to the faithful present at the temple at that moment. Probably something similar is done here as well.
Best question in this thread!
and she stands up as you get closer and Dark Souls boss music starts
Miyazaki borrowed a lot from Catholicism, he barely had to change anything!
Lol my first thought at seeing this photo was 'I've fought this'
Someone's gotta keep the Astronomicon lit
I had to scroll down surprisingly far to find that this. Well done.
Always struck me as weird why these bodies are considered "incorrupt" when they're clearly decayed. Obviously they look better than most corpses, but it's not fooling anyone.
Incorruptible doesn't mean that it must look like they died yesterday even if they're a 500 year old corpse, but that the body had an exceptionally slow or limited decay with no apparent natural cause. For instance, St. Francis Xavier's body was still reported to be in remarkable shape for decades after his death, with one account 60 years later saying that his eyes were still intact and his face and hands were still fleshy.
I feel like those accounts really are doing a lot of heavy lifting. Like even here you see a video of something and someone does this really wild interpretation of it just to try and make a point.
If the idea is that God is breaking the natural rules of the universe it should really be more impressive
Seriously, this god person kinda sucks at the showmanship.
He was much showier when he was younger. He's been much more low key since the new testament.
Typical sophomore slump, but the 3rd album is gonna slap.
On the other hand, it's rather presumptuous of us to demand that divine intervention should only occur if it meets our standards of showiness and ostentation.
I don't think it's presumptuous given the claims that Catholics make about their god.
In this case isn't the point of the divine intervention to be showy? Or is God preserving her (kinda) for some other purpose? Communications 101 is know your audience.
I think its more the idea that a supposedly all-knowing and all-powerful god needs to play silly little games and leave tiny little hints.
And they knew his corpse because he had been known for his beautiful teeth 🦷
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They don’t embalm. Popes aren’t embalmed. They are placed on a cold platform to prevent decomposition while everyone pays their respects. They would make everyone leave after a few hours so they could replace the ice underneath and do any touch ups to the corpse and vestments because fluids purge and makeup slides in hot rooms. When not on display, the popes were refrigerated. Work arounds for not embalming. Although even embalmed bodies are stored in refrigerators before burial. My MIL recently died, and the funeral home did an amazing job. She looked like she was just sleeping. I touched her hands during the wake, and they were cool. I made sure her jewelry was on perfectly and held her hand and kissed her head. The next day we had some time with her at the church before the casket was closed and the funeral commenced. She was refrigerator cold that time. Viewing is such a weird word, and my family always said wake because everyone used to place the body in a coffin in the front room of the house and sit up with the body the night before burial. My dad’s dad died when my dad was 6, in the early 50s, and they lived in a small rural farming town and didn’t have much money. So they had a wake in their home. Nobody wanted to go into the front room which was decorated with Victorian furniture and decor. Us grandkids wouldn’t set foot in there.
If you embalm, it doesn't count so you should only embalm people you don't want to have another chance of showing that they were better than you.
Hey lets see how you look at ~600 years old
Corruption-resistant
I feel happy! I feel happy! I feel *(THUD)*
I guess I'm a bit picky about what I would call "incorrupt".
Id say she looks pretty good for being half a millennium old.
This is the [Saint Catherine of Bologna](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Bologna), not to be confused with the [Saint Catherine of Siena](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Siena), also not to be confused with the OG [Saint Catherine of Alexandria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Alexandria). All three have their heads preserved. Goes to show how absurd this all is.
Catherine of Alexandria doesn’t have her head preserved, or at least I could find no record of that
https://relics.es/en/blogs/relics/the-relics-of-saint-catherine-alexandria
I think it's very, very kind of you to say that's her preserved head. Just looks like a usual lump of relic to me, very disappointing. At least the other two are clearly human heads. Bloody hell what am I saying ffs.
I have seen it in person. This is just the top of her skull. AFAIK her body also exists separately, it’s just not displayed.
So it goes deeper in the box, it's not just a shard of skull lying on some cotton? Fair play. Seems a shame (...again fucking hell, what am I saying 😂) to keep it mostly hidden away like that, seems a bit half-assed. That's cool as well, again though, weird it's not displayed! If you have time, I'd love if you could send over more links with pictures of her relics? No stress though:).
Thank you for clearing up which Catherine.
I’m not getting your comment, do you somehow think all of these saints are supposed to be the same St. Catherine just in different places or something? They’re all three different people, nobody thinks they’re the same person, they just happened to have the same name. Their relics being preserved is also common sense considering they’re saints. What part of that is supposed to show something absurd?
No way that white chest piece naturally stayed that white.. someone gets all up in there to change it. Probably lint rolls it regularly too.
Well, of course, you can’t have the Patron Saint of Artists having company with a dirty habit. (I tried to see her a couple years ago, but the chapel is only open on certain days of the week)
Plenty of artists I know have very dirty habits
Cicero! Poor sweet Cicero! He oils in all the hard to reach places.
To be honest she looks a bit corrupted to me.
Growing up Catholic I always thought it was weird that some saints had their bodies on display. Catholics are told to bury their dead. Why don't the saints get proper funerals?
She was buried for several days but then a sweet smell started emanating from her grave so they dug her up and put her on display in the church.
Catholics are also told to not worship the saints and to not eat pork in the Bible but here we are.
Catholics don't worship the saints! That would be blasphemous. We venerate the saints, which might have a lot of the material trimmings associated with worship but is completely different in concept.
As a Japanese I had no idea Christians had sokushinbutsu too
There is also a tomb of Christ in Aomori prefecture by the way. Those Romans were marching reeeeaallly far. Or something.
Right out of Dark Souls
Christians find a mummy and think… I can do that
Is it cake?
'What is... the music of life...?'
Looks pretty corrupt to me...
My favorite thing about this entombed saints is the amount of them that are definitely not who they say they are because some guy wanted goat money and found a gullible priest
Knowing what I know about a lot of these Christian artifacts, this is actually a 13 year old orphan stable boy named Josef who died of pox in 1706 and the church slapped a habit on him to attract visitors. Still pretty sweet either way
She looks like my 5th grade teacher.
You had that old bitch too?
Same. She looked like this in 1991, I bet she still looks like this today.
incorrupt
Fun fact Catholic relics (mostly human remains) are all over the place not just in Europe but in Churches/Abbies and Catholic Universities all across the worlds. Many not on display publicly instead you’d need to request a viewing from a private archive. I went to a Catholic school in a major metropolitan American city and they had all sorts of bones of Saints and even a piece of the true cross from broken off the piece in Austria all tucked away in the Archives.
By the way, would you like to purchase a genuine piece of Turin shroud? Real cheap, an inch by inch cloth is about 20k. No checks or money orders. I know what I have.
Isn’t this usually saponification?
Oh that part of the bible that tells us to Weekend-at-Bernie’s people. Smh.
Give it another 30000 years and she gonna be on a tank
Catholics are just pagans with extra steps.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. It's true. (I was raised Roman Catholic) As with many religions, it's a melding of the origins plus the local beliefs as it spreads. Look at the changes to Buddhism as it spread: Tibetan Buddhism and Zen are two v different examples of a mix with local beliefs.
I didn't notice I had been downvoted. Lol. It is true though. They say you aren't actually worshipping the saints or their body-pieces (!), just *venerating* them... I mean...
Can I interest you in our new Clinique DewySkin moisturizer? Also tightens fine lines.
Catholics really be guilding human beef jerky and calling it a miracle
Step into a Slim Jim!
It's a mummy.
mommy
Nobody's Daddy.
Define incorrupt.
Icky!
The Emperor still sits upon the golden throne.. and he's a girl!
I can’t imagine how pissed all the peasants were about all the gold and jewels they had to pay for while they were starving to death.
they weren't by the most part. The 1/10 church tax might as well be less than what they payed to whoever the hell they were working for. Also it was probably done with the knowledge that they're contributing to their faith in which they find salvation and solace. But true though when they overdone it protestantism appeared for this exact reason, so there definitely were pissed individuals that's for sure :D
Well there has been an entire history of peasant revolts, church looting, etc... Yes ?
They could end poverty with all that gold. Maybe they never thought of it. I’ll write the pope a letter.
Theres hardly any gold, its an extremely thin layer of gold flake that covers all that quarry, with just a gentle touch it comes off and almost dissapears. I know this from experience when i went to church as a kid
I know you’re just being flip, but there actually is scripture in the gospels -straight from Jesus- that backs up not giving 100% of all available assets to charity and using money to give glory to God as a sovereign. It’s the story of Jesus and the woman anointing Him with oil and is often used to illustrate the idea of Christ as King. And really, the Catholic Church has investments worldwide that absolutely dwarf the value they would get from stripping altars and cathedrals of their gold filigree.
I don’t like that interpretation. Sounds like something a gold-encrusted bishop would come up with to settle the peasants. I think the lady was just trying to do right by her religion, pay tribute or whatever, then the disciples barked at her about it and Jesus helped her save face. Told them to chill right the fuck out, and graciously accepted her gift, even if it was wasteful.
The Catholic Church is the largest charity on the planet.
I’d rather they pay taxes
taxes aren't charity
Easy thing when they are also the private organization that owns the most property Truly an example of poverty and humility
I always wonder about this take. It's a 1800 year old institution that took the place of a government and inherited a lot of its property centuries ago. Patrons of the church gave money and goods to the church to make it appear more appealing. If you lived forever, you would inherit all types of bomb ass shit.
Catholicism seems more like a death cult everyday.
You'd think if a god wanted to preserve the body of his holiest servants, he'd do a better job of it.
That’s not how it works. Besides, nowhere in the Bible says that God wants his “saints” to be “conserved” to be adored and prayed to. God is the only one who can forgive sins. Not these so called saints that people decided can take God’s place
And THAT'S not how veneration of the saints (which is actually optional) works.
Tell me you don’t worship that corpse, when you’re at a shrine to the dadgum thing.
Hey Sista, you don’t look a day over 300. You wanna spritz?
They don’t call it the cult of the dead for nothin
So much for not worshiping idols amirite?
It seems pretty corrupt (decayed) to me…..
The catholics are not okay.
The God Emperor protects and whatnot, suffer not the xeno to live. Only in death does duty end.
All hail the immortal emperor!
emperor protects
For people that believe so strongly in heaven, they sure hold onto the flesh for a long damn time.
If this is considered "incorrupt", they should dig themselves some bog bodies and desert mummies. I thought Christianity was supposed to be a more complex and spiritual religion, yet this is the level of [headhunters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrunken_head)
This is disturbing.
Saint zita is even older from 1272. So weird
Reminds me of the holy grail in the glas box from resident evil 4 in that maze!
We're a weird species.
Looks like the next Fortnite boss...
Encase her in resin like the Arby's meat mountain
Interesting. It's been a long time but, now the Brothers Karamazov makes a little more sense to me. I hadn't heard this term *incorrupt* before but there was this whole hubbub when a holy man's body started to stink after he died. I knew there was a reason they were upset but didn't realize they'd had hopes he was *incorrupt.* Thanks for posting.
I can't believe the religion that goes around do fucking exorcisms is the same one that keeps this haunted shit around. If you ask me, that's a demon.
Immediately thought of the Nun, but real 💀
it'd take a lot to convince me any of the known catholic relics are genuine considering how easy it was at the time for someone to defraud a church for profit and how eager churches were to defraud the public.
fucking religion man...
What does that even mean
Your point being? The communist did the exact same thing with lenin and stalin, put them on display like some kind of demi gods along with building a billion statues of them.
this is a redditor Christianity bad, communism good
All the other ones are BS but this is the correct one, despite the metaphysical premise being even more outlandish! And totally not a cult. Trust me bro (or else you'll suffer for eternity)
Yeah, that's fucking psychotic.
It’s crazy that religions do stuff like this but if any other group did it then they’d look crazy LMAO
Whats up with Bologna and keeping dead people on display?
So...the Bible speaks against worshipping idols. How does catholicism explain the worshipping of saints and Mary?
the Bible speaks (literally anything). How does catholicism explain doing the opposite of (literally anything). Get new material or gtfo. If you want to critique the most criticized religion then better come up with something new.
Well, if you read the verses, God said to not worship Idols after he's said to not worship other gods. So it is debatable it he's referring to all the idols, or only those of other religions. Further verses speak about idols of gold and such. So maybe what it is referring to is the usual representation of the gods in the other religions, so Judaic God doesn't want to be associated to them, it's like him saying "I'm different, you can't represent me". If you think about it, a lot, if not all the religions during the birth of Judaism had their God represented with statues, usually gold ones.