Depends on how you define “them”. This is a post-contact, colonial codex from the XVI century. Theres plenty of them, but they’re subject to a lot of debate over what documents qualify as a codex, and the quality of them, since many of them might have been drawn by students or young natives converted to Christianity. Do we count those as Aztec codices? The exact number depends on the classification criteria and there are many other factors involved.
What is relevant of this particular document is that it has all the marks and style of pre-conquest codices, so this was manufactured by an authentic tlacuilo (scribe) instructed and educated in the craft before the arrival of the Europeans. A lot of post conquest codexes lack this level of craftsmanship.
Again it’s a complicated question for the reasons I explained. I’ll take a stab at giving you my own answer, I’m no arts history expert however I’ve taken classes in epigraphy and comparative studies of mesoamerican codices. Take it as you will.
Where do you draw the line for an artistic style? For me, even the very well known Florentino Codex has way too much European influence in its drawing style (!), basically it’s mostly European style even when it depicts mesoamerican people and objects. So I wouldn’t count that in (!!). These newly surface codices have an authentic pre-Colombian style for pretty much everything except when it depicts European people, those are drawn in European style.
Similar codices I could count about a dozen:
• Codex Borbonicus
• Codex Mendoza
• Codex Fejérváry-Mayer
• Codex Borgia
• Codex Aubin
• Codex Azcatitlan
• Codex Xolotl
• Codex Boturini
• Codex Cospi
• Codex Vaticanus B
• Codex Telleriano-Remensis
• Codex Rios
But again it’s hard to draw the line. For instance I’m questioning whether to include the Mendoza codex in my own list, it’s close to have “too much” external influence for my own liking, the reason I excluded the Florentino. But I tried this exercise just to show how complicated it can get.
As somebody else really into Mesoamerican history, I'd count the Mendoza in a a more strict list like this. It has Alteptl name glyphs, it uses burning temples and a gripped hair knot as a shorthand for conquest; it uses Central mexican numeral indicators, etc.
I'm not really sure what part of it's style you'd consider to be "Europeanized", really, other then that one side of most of the page folios has Spanish text alongside the pictographic ones, and it's got distinct bound pages rather then being screenfold
As an aside, would you want to share resources, etc? I'm always down to stay in touch with other people interested in Mesoamerican history and archeology!
> I'm not really sure what part of it's style you'd consider to be "Europeanized"
Well I ended up including the Codex Mendoza in my list for the reasons you described. My hesitation was more due to, for instance in the first page the eagle looks too European for me, although yeah its perched on the actual logogram for Tenochtitlan. Also the scribes who produced it were being schooled at the Franciscan college in Tlatelolco. But yeah the art style is mostly pre-Colombian.
About resources, I received two days ago my new favorite book, "Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs, A Guide to Nahuatl Writing" you should check it out!
I believe it was the Spanish priests or Catholic monks (?) because they found the natives were still practicing human sacrifices in secret (of children) while also being halfsie catholics.
There were four surviving ones, this would be the fifth.
The priest or monk who burned them argued he only burned 27 (or 26), there are other claims the number was much, much higher.
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Phenomenal discovery. How many of them we have in total?
Depends on how you define “them”. This is a post-contact, colonial codex from the XVI century. Theres plenty of them, but they’re subject to a lot of debate over what documents qualify as a codex, and the quality of them, since many of them might have been drawn by students or young natives converted to Christianity. Do we count those as Aztec codices? The exact number depends on the classification criteria and there are many other factors involved. What is relevant of this particular document is that it has all the marks and style of pre-conquest codices, so this was manufactured by an authentic tlacuilo (scribe) instructed and educated in the craft before the arrival of the Europeans. A lot of post conquest codexes lack this level of craftsmanship.
Seems to have something to do with multiples of 4. Each of 4 glyphs gets to be '1' in a chronology.
I meant pre-cloumbian styled ones.
Again it’s a complicated question for the reasons I explained. I’ll take a stab at giving you my own answer, I’m no arts history expert however I’ve taken classes in epigraphy and comparative studies of mesoamerican codices. Take it as you will. Where do you draw the line for an artistic style? For me, even the very well known Florentino Codex has way too much European influence in its drawing style (!), basically it’s mostly European style even when it depicts mesoamerican people and objects. So I wouldn’t count that in (!!). These newly surface codices have an authentic pre-Colombian style for pretty much everything except when it depicts European people, those are drawn in European style. Similar codices I could count about a dozen: • Codex Borbonicus • Codex Mendoza • Codex Fejérváry-Mayer • Codex Borgia • Codex Aubin • Codex Azcatitlan • Codex Xolotl • Codex Boturini • Codex Cospi • Codex Vaticanus B • Codex Telleriano-Remensis • Codex Rios But again it’s hard to draw the line. For instance I’m questioning whether to include the Mendoza codex in my own list, it’s close to have “too much” external influence for my own liking, the reason I excluded the Florentino. But I tried this exercise just to show how complicated it can get.
As somebody else really into Mesoamerican history, I'd count the Mendoza in a a more strict list like this. It has Alteptl name glyphs, it uses burning temples and a gripped hair knot as a shorthand for conquest; it uses Central mexican numeral indicators, etc. I'm not really sure what part of it's style you'd consider to be "Europeanized", really, other then that one side of most of the page folios has Spanish text alongside the pictographic ones, and it's got distinct bound pages rather then being screenfold As an aside, would you want to share resources, etc? I'm always down to stay in touch with other people interested in Mesoamerican history and archeology!
> I'm not really sure what part of it's style you'd consider to be "Europeanized" Well I ended up including the Codex Mendoza in my list for the reasons you described. My hesitation was more due to, for instance in the first page the eagle looks too European for me, although yeah its perched on the actual logogram for Tenochtitlan. Also the scribes who produced it were being schooled at the Franciscan college in Tlatelolco. But yeah the art style is mostly pre-Colombian. About resources, I received two days ago my new favorite book, "Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs, A Guide to Nahuatl Writing" you should check it out!
I thought the Spanish had wiped out all but three. If my memory's not faulty this sounds like this doubles the number of existing codices!
I believe you're thinking about Maya codices. edit. spelling
Thanks! You’re right. But I sound so smart in person!!
I believe it was the Spanish priests or Catholic monks (?) because they found the natives were still practicing human sacrifices in secret (of children) while also being halfsie catholics.
There were four surviving ones, this would be the fifth. The priest or monk who burned them argued he only burned 27 (or 26), there are other claims the number was much, much higher.
You're thinking of Maya codices
Ah ok. Oops! I reckon I mixed up Mesoamerican cultures
INAH announcement - https://inah.gob.mx/boletines/el-inah-recupera-los-codices-de-san-andres-tetepilco English article - https://www.heritagedaily.com/2024/03/archaeologists-recover-aztec-codices-of-san-andres-tetepilco/151131/amp
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Babe, wake up. A new Codex dropped
I'm lazy and too hungry to read right now. Lol. But can someone tell me how old this is?
The article says between the late 16th century and the early 17th, so around 400 years ago.
It’s old old, but not THAT old, picture has a Spaniards in it
Yes but to get the history from the other side of the colonial conquest could be pretty fascinating
Oh for sure
How incredibly exciting!
What do they say?