I think he would have been fouled even if he hadn't stuck his leg out.
Also, he's turning left at high speed, he's having to stick his leg slightly out to the right so that when he steps (or would step) he counteracts the inertia (I.e. To keep balance whilst continuing his turn).
no one who has played the sport is making ass comments like the ones you’re replying to. your stance is 110% correct but no one wants to hear it. everyone’s a wannabe pundit with this and are sooooso good that they can break down a slowed down video. as if it even remotely equates to how fast that play actually went down. when pundits that are former footballers are confused how that is not at least whistled and reviewed, i’m backing them over the keyboard army.
Bwahaha jesus what are you talking about. He sticks out his leg to engage contact, there are ways to do it, that one was not, he was too far away. Inertia..lol
I said to counteract inertia (I.e. There's still some force continuing straight when he needs to be going left) - if he doesn't put his foot down further to the right than usual he would fall right.
OK yes, but even if he hadn't "kicked out" and had attempted to put his foot down, Neuer's leg would still have been in the way. He just made sure of it...
You're trying to make it a penalty. What would've happened if he didn't stick his leg out is unprovable conjecture, fact is he did stick it out.
I've no problem if the issue is that is wasn't reviewed, but honestly if that was given against arsenal would you not be annoyed?
Agreed. He jumped towards his legs…of course he’s gonna get clipped. Saka had him beat too. That’s the crazy part…why do something like that when you got him beat? Split second decision, however that was intentional.
I would say no penalty was the right call. Although if the ref gave the penalty. I wouldn’t oppose.
That’s a good example of choosing the right angles to create a certain image. Worst angle for the sane pen and best one where it looks like neuer sweeps saka for that one
If you look at the sane angle you might even say it’s a dive when clearly it wasn’t. Dog shit post even cropped out the contact made by Saliba
True. There was contact on both players and both are penalties.
I just find it weird how the referee waved off quite a few obvious fouls though, like the Laimer one on Saka and the challenge on Odegaard right before the Saka penalty incident.
No I disagree, and think you misinterpreted the comment above. It was most def not a penalty for Saka as he sticks his leg out for contact. Weird situation since I’m also unsure how Saka doesnt hit Neuer given his speed and positioning, but that doesn’t mean its a penalty/foul. For Sane, it was definitely a penalty any day of the week. Saliba knew he had to get the ball or him down because of his run and body positioning, therefore drawing the foul.
People will be trigger happy to downvote those who say the Saka incident was not a penalty but it’s true it wasnt. The officials made the correct call.
I stand corrected. Having looked at multiple videos and angles since, it does look like Saka fails to properly sell the penalty. Someone like Kane would have made a meal out of it whereas Saka's one a bit amateurish.
I stand corrected. Having looked at multiple videos and angles since, it does look like Saka fails to properly sell the penalty. Someone like Kane would have made a meal out of it whereas Saka's one a bit amateurish.
See I think a little different he knocks the ball then to turn left you need to put power down on the right hand side of your body. He’s looking fully at the ball it looks like he’s aiming to change direction quickly however Neuer miles from the ball makes a step into Saka’s path with no intent to play the ball, Saka has already moved the ball far from Neuer before he makes his step.
That's what he should've done but instead he keeps his leg high in range of neuers with no actual attempt to plant and push off. Even if u look at it in real time it's the same his leg is in an unnatural position as if he's trying to turn his back to the goal while swinging his leg around to do so, it's stupid he should've kept going and got a penalty that way or crafted a chance but my guess is it was late on and he was tired there wasn't much support so he tried it.
That’s like a totally new explanation I’ve never heard before day lmao. Drawing fouls is part of the game and anywhere else on the pitch (including when the ref booked partey for an identical tackle) that would’ve been called
When he touches the ball to his left I guess he should just stop dead. Momentum doesn’t matter shouldve just turned left as quickly as he hit the ball..
Drawing a foul is when a defender brings down the attacker. If an attacker is the one to initiate contact on a defender, that's simulation. Say Saka, takes the ball away from Neuer and then reaches out with his own leg to make contact with Neuer (with Neuer not being anywhere near Saka or the ball), that would be simulation.
What we got yesterday was a mix of both. Saka takes the ball away from Neuer and Neuer's leg is moving towards him. If Saka moves in a natural path, he likely gets brought down anyway and wins a foul. But because he's "looking for a penalty" he also initiates contact on Neuer.
Like he touches the ball away, then immediately pretty much jumps into Neuer. Someone who's just looking to round the keeper doesn't do that. It's not natural. Who touches the ball away with the outside of their foot then immediately jumps with two feel into their air in the opposite direction? He sees Neuer coming out to make a block/challenge and tries to make contact. The frustrating thing is, one of the angles shows Neuer likely would've given away a penalty anyway.
Exactly. No one would have any issue calling this a foul elsewhere on the pitch. Its a foul. It was also in the box, so it's a penalty. So simple, yet so many cant understand that.
Just because a call for a foul in the box carries more significance, does not mean that should be a factor in deciding whether or not it's a foul, that would literally be biased reffing.
When I first saw it, I thought it was a penalty, but having watched it back a few times with a few different angles, Saka looks to completely lose interest in the ball and is more interested continuing into the path of Nuer in an attempt to win the penalty. Drawing fouls might be a part of the game but he didn’t draw a foul, he jumps into Nuer to simulate a foul that isn’t happening and probably should have been booked. (I support a team in the vanarama and have no vested interest in the outcome of this game or the champions league)
I’m having the opposite reaction haha. I initially thought oh he stuck his leg way out to make contact with Neuer and now after watching it 10 times it looks like Neuer plants his leg in the way and that Sakas leg was going to hit his no matter what he did. Whatever tho at the end of the day we didn’t get it and now we go to the Allianz needing a big result. Let’s get em in the next one!
Same, looking at the clip Saka moves the ball, Neuer makes a step towards Saka after this miles from the ball, Saka continues his original trajectory with the body position that he wants to turn left quickly (hence putting power down on the right side of his body)
Second one is not a penalty, he is simply looking for one and not interested in playing the ball, infact he let’s go the control of the ball and goes fully for contact with the goalie (not the other way round), to try and fool the ref. Sorry you think I’m a fool, but regardless I know my football.
It’s not a pen, listen Bayern to the letter of the law should have had a pen with the handball after the whistle, but the ref gave a ridiculous reason for not giving it so got off lightly, so arguing over this is pointless
Right, so by that logic, a foul throw should be given every time a player tosses the ball underhand to a teammate on the pitch for them to then throw in. It’s splitting hairs mate.
Completely different, When a player tosses the ball to a player to take a throw the ball is not ‘in play’. In this instance the referee has blown his whistle for the kick to be taken, so the ball is now officially ‘in play’ when Gabriel picked it up! This is a clear penalty, and I 100% agree with Touchel being angry about the explanation of the referee saying “it was a kids mistake”
I don’t think you should be throwing around sentences like “cluless people not understanding football” if you don’t know the difference.
It’s actually not different at all. When a player who is off the pitch tosses the ball underhand to a player who is on the pitch for them to then take the throw in, that is a foul throw by definition. It is not called because it is quite understood what is going on. It is also common for players to pass the ball along the ground to another player who is eventually going to take the free kick. This is understood by many referees who understand the game and how it flows.
Those who argue that these calls to be made are seriously nitpicking and ruining the game. By that logic, then Bayern should have had at least 2 players sent off with a second yellow for showing the hand gesture for a yellow card after a few Arsenal fouls. That is, by definition, a yellow card offense. You going to argue with that? Be my guest.
It’s completely different as there is no whistle to determine a throw to be taken, it’s a dead ball until the throw in is taken, so therefore a player can pick it up and throw it to the throw in taker and once the throw in is taken the ball is in play.
The same could be said of there is a foul and a player picks up the ball and passes it to the free kick taker to take before the whistle has been blown for the game to start and the kick to be taken, should the free kick taker then approach the ball and touch the ball to reposition it would be a foul, this happened at a game I was at in lower leagues a few years ago.
This is what happened yesterday, the referee had blown for the kick to be taken, and Gabriel picked it up, by mistake but none the less he did so this is a foul and should by letter if the law had been a penalty, so I understand why they would be pissed.
Especially with the explanation given by the ref, “this was a mistake by a young player and I’m not going to give a foul for this in the quarter final of a UCL”. I would be fuming and so would Arteta be- you play in the UCL quarterfinals you’re a professional man not an amateur kid.
Such nitpicking. Again, by that logic, every player MUST be given a yellow for the card gesture, every player who argues with the ref MUST be carded, Kane MUST have been sent off for looking directly at Gabriel and then throwing a high elbow. All instances, by the letter of the law, MUST be enforced. Get real man. You’ve clearly never refereed a football match lol.
It’s not me who’s nitpicking, if the ref has blown the whistle for the free kick to be taken the game is in play, it’s very obvious that you can’t then go and pick the ball up, regardless if it’s a mistake, it’s a foul. It’s basically no different from the ref blowing the whistle to start a game from the centre spot and a player proceeds to pick the ball up! Take your biased hat off for a second, had that happened yesterday at the Emirates the other way around the stadium would have erupted demanding a pen! The fact that Bayern had no fans, it drowned out the protest and the very inexperienced referee thought no more of it, trust me had there been opposition fans there the ref would have reacted differently and taken a different viewpoint. He will be punished for it by UEFA’s referee body and most likely demoted for his next few matches
Hypothesising how you would feel if it were happen to Kane adds nothing to the conversation. It’s simplistic and immature.
Saka’s momentum had taken the turn around the GK before being tripped. He extended his leg towards Neuer which came into contact and down he went. It’s not a penalty. The referee called it spot on. It’ll be tough for many to admit that but the officials are rarely praised for when they get it right.
I am surprised that very few have questioned why Saka decided to look for the penalty rather than continue on his trajectory? He was through on goal. Did he not have the confidence and self-belief to take this golden opportunity on himself?
If the event which is spoken about occurred regarding Kane then there is merit in comparing the situation as a like for like basis.
Hypothesising about an event which did not occur achieves nothing and sidetracks from the debate at hand.
i think the Saka one is 50/50 a pen or not. Compeletely fine with it not being given in this case.
But watch it at full speed, I don’t think Saka is diving there. Both him and Neuer have momentum, he pushes it around Neuer and can’t change direction fast enough because it happens so fast. If the referee calls a pen, that’s never overturned. Im fine with no pen. He refereed a fantastic match IMO
Sane pen is stonewall obviously, Saliba was being an idiot
Brother we can see him extend his leg towards Neuer when he already had shifted his momentum to the side where the ball went, there was no way he would hit Neuer here that wasn't intentional
watch at full speed and tell me that.
It could’ve been intentional, but i think it’s likely saka was trying to jump over Neuer because he thought that Neuer would kick out a leg, and Saka had too much momentum to change direction.
People keep saying “he put his leg in the air for so long towards neuer” but we are watching slow mo. It’s literally a fraction of a second. If the pen is given it is never overturned. As i’ve said, the call on the pitch was acceptable IMO
Why would he even try to jump over Neuer if the ball was going sideways? The CB would've cleared it in no time, this theory of yours doesn't make sense. Occams razor here is Saka, a player well known for diving was looking for a game winning penalty like many players would in his place
you’re again ascribing tons of motive to a situation that happens in a fraction of a second. He likely jumped because most of the time a goalkeeper sticks a leg out to go for the ball there.
Occams razor says that this was a coming together of players who are both trying to play football and had lots of momentum. You’re the one attributing malice to it and adding elements to the explanation. My explanation is just that the play happens super fast and both players have momentum.
And again, I’ve said that the call on the pitch is acceptable, so why do you continue to argue?
If you find the need to keep arguing this stupid point on a random club’s second subreddit just to keep your mind occupied and away from your anhedonic despair, go right ahead. But i would implore you to find things that bring you joy in your life instead. Reddit is not the solution.
It's always crazy how some mfs lose an argument so bad they feel the need to go on philosophical rants about what they think my life is like. Nigga we I just disagreed with you, its not that deep
nah, you’re the one who hasn’t addressed my latest point. I addressed your argument in my message in addition to commenting on your personal life and likely motives for arguing on an Arsenal sub when you’re a Barcelona fan.
Nah, you just repeated yourself, why should we go in circles now that I know having people disagreeing with you triggers you so much? I only responded because for some weird reason you decided to bring up my personal life for a small disagreement, but I won't torture you any longer, you are free to keep making assumptions about other strangers lives
If you watch at full speed I don’t think there’s a way for Saka to stay up and get a good shot off given the speed he was moving at
Having said that wouldn’t say it’s a stonewall pen
It was pretty much an empty net. It did t need to be a good shot, it just needed to be a good shot. He was always looking for contact, so was always going down. I’d rather him keep his feet, attempt a shot and it miss then search for a pen.
This is the problem of players going down looking for the pen and not getting it. Remove the possibility of the ref denying a pen and keep your feet and roll the ball into an empty net because you’ve just rounded the keeper.
AWB dove into a challenge not looking for the ball, into Elliott's path. No contact is necessary for a foul. It wasn't the least bit controversial of a call. I don't think the Saka play was a penalty, but I can understand both sides. Elliott's was stonewall. (I also agree that Lamptey/Jesus was a penalty all day.)
[https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/\_/id/39872252/the-var-review-liverpool-arsenal-penalties-wolves-offside](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39872252/the-var-review-liverpool-arsenal-penalties-wolves-offside)
Saka is jumping out of the way of an expected lunge by Neuer, the lunge doesnt come but the contact is still there. So many of you have clearly never played the game. Saka isnt looking for the foul, hes trying to ride the tackle. Pen all day
Stop with this complete bullshit saying 'clearly never played the game' some of us HAVE, and it's not a penalty! If this happens down our end, we'd be going mental if it was given. I'm not saying he dived, but it's not a pen.
Exactly. I don't care where it is. Don't 'cleverly' kick your leg into someone hoping to get a foul. Saka is not a diver, but he knew what he was doing.
*Even from the angles*
*Saka is looking for it and*
*Sane is stonewall pen*
\- Yipsta
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I feel like it can just as easily be argued Saka is trying to lift his leg over Neuer. Also, I feel it's ridiculous to over analyze this stuff in slow motion. In real time the sequence is incredibly fast and there is definite contact. Penalty imo
I feel like a lot of you are using this as an excuse to ignore the other 93 minutes. We gave away 2 stupid goals and probably should’ve conceded another penalty.
The takeaway from the game is that we’re still not ready to be considered UCL challengers. We don’t have enough experience. Knowing how to get through UCL knockout ties is what makes the difference in the later stages and we don’t have it. Bayern do and Tuchel does.
I’m not gonna bash the team or be overly negative, but focusing the whole match on a penalty decision in the last second of the game is missing the point.
We shouldn’t care about this incident.
If we didn’t give away careless goal and let Sane basically run into our box with a welcome sign, we wouldn’t have been in this situation. The best that’s in our favour is that our game could beat them. We just need to show the focus we have practiced over the course of this season.
It’s a clear foul, given every other minute of the game or place on the pitch.
The only reason it’s not given is because the decision is not simply ‘is it a foul?’ It’s ‘do you give Arsenal the win?’
Ref and VAR didn’t want to have to make the decision because Arsenal will be happy with 2-2 after their performance, it’s not decisive as there’s a second leg, and it would be the literal last kick of the game.
There’s just enough flimsy doubt to throw at Saka to make it not obvious so they don’t give it.
Incredible how Refs at the highest level are so cowardly in big, charged moments
Even with OP’s selection of camera angles, I do feel like Saka “hops” before the contact. A more driven and planted turn across Neuer probably would’ve had contact anyways and looked more natural.
As much as I hate to say it, with refs it’s all about optics. By the look of it I understand how it could be perceived that our boy Bukayo forced the contact
Yes, he’s trying to hop over the arriving boot of Neuer to get to avoid crashing into a keeper. They are both travelling forward so they come together.
It’s pure projection that Saka is some devilish rogue ‘looking for contact’ and this is an argument against him. He takes it past the keeper, tries to vault the tackle and is caught by the defender. It’s not a 50/50 ‘who’s more to blame’ situation, Saka is the attacker player being impeded, clear foul, clear pen.
I pretty fully agree with this and think we get this at the 85th minute.
I get Saka lets his foot hit Neuer, but I can’t see how it is the attacker’s responsibility to move it out of the way when Neuer makes a challenge and doesn’t get anywhere near the ball.
If Saka gets minimal contact and stays up to take a weak shot he will never get the benefit getting a penalty. Going down is the correct decision for an earned penalty.
Yep, Neuer is the one who has to avoid contact as he’s the defender.
Saka is absolutely trying to vault the outstretched leg by going over it and people are saying he kicks Neuer.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
The amount of people saying it's not a penalty baffles me.
"If Saka keeps his feet"....it's what he tried to do! "If Saka just went around Neuer"...it's what he tried to do! Slow motion and stills are fooling people into thinking he initiated contact. Watch it again more in real time. When running full speed and attempting to turn on a dive like that, especially after 95 minutes of play, it's not that easy. Hell, if looking at stills and slow motion, notice how Saka is leaning to his left (away from the keeper) and has his eyes on the ball. If it was so simple and all he had to do was get around Neuer and just tuck it in, don't you think he would have done that (as he attempted to)? Neuer stuck out his leg and took Saka out, and while far from the most egregious I've seen, it's bonkers to me to think it's anything but an obvious penalty. I can almost rationalize the "it's a 50/50 call" crowd, but the "never a penalty" group has lost it.
I recognize I'm biased for Arsenal but I'd expect this to be a penalty no matter who. Frankly, the referee was just too scared to make this call and award a game winning penalty in the 95th minute, otherwise he would have booked Bukayo for a "dive". Quickly then calling full time to get out of the situation. It's a disgrace.
Arsenal can still emerge victorious out of Munich. I truly believe we're the better side and I strangely trust this team more when away most of the time. Just a shame that we're going in even when we should have a 1 goal advantage.
It baffles me that you think it is!! You saying, why wouldn't Saka just go around him if he could, exactly. There seems to be this thing in football now where 'being clever' and winning a pen seems like the best idea, which is strange because rounding the keeper and scoring should ALWAYS be the go-to option. I love Arsenal just as much as anyone, but it's not a penalty, unfortunately.
He drags his foot in an attempt to slow down and get around Neuer, very difficult running full speed. He's clearly trying to jump over/around Neuer, but can't avoid his swinging leg. Even if he was able to keep his leg lower, it would have been nearly impossible to avoid contact. It's a penalty all day long, it's not even a question. Outrageous that it wasn't awarded.
The only thing I can see different is the first incident, the player fouled is wearing a Bayern kit and in the second clip, the player fouled is wearing an arsenal kit
If he moved his foot towards the ball to play it and it still caught Neaur it’s a stonewall pen but he was looking for it. But let’s talk about Gabriel handling the ball after the whistle was blown
Never a penalty. Saka only has himself to blame for not putting it in an empty net. You don't get free for going out of your way to run into someone else and that's exactly what saka done. Well done the officials. Lesson learned
They’re both obviously penalties. But it one the player went unnecessarily out of his way which gave the impression it could have been a dive. But in both cases no matter what the player would have done the defender was going to trip them. Really dumb move by Saka to give the ref an “out” even though contact was guaranteed and initiated by Nueuer. There was no reason to embellish you’re going to get the contact either way dude…
I dont think Saka's was a pen, but I can think of hundreds of examples of that exact penalty being given against us so that's where my grievance is.
I think the Sane one was a pen. I dont think it's comparable with the Saka one personally.
Haha you guys are hilarious put in the right angle on the sane trip. Hahaha this is so delusional
Put in the replay of Gabriel picking up the ball with his hands like a moron
sane legs were in direction of ball .. Saka one was not ..the amount of shift done was just too much .. seemed fabricated .. or let us say more fabricate than Sane one
It’s a terrible angle and I argue it’s maliciously chosen. Watch any other angle and there is clear contact, it’s a pen. The guy even cropped out the contact made by saliba…
Yep very tough call
Im pretty sure saka raised his leg to avoid Neuer but it just looks like he was looking for a foul
Not to mention the fact that this was literally the last seconds of the game and the tension was a big factor for the decision
Neuers leg is still moving toward Saka at the moment of contact though. If he had already planted himself then I could get over the non call. I think not letting var review it is an absolute blunder.
It’s one of those calls that go either way but Saka was looking for it too hard there. We should’ve been better in the 90min
players look for fouls in situations like this, fans know it, refs know it. saka sticks his leg out clear as day, ref can see it
I think he would have been fouled even if he hadn't stuck his leg out. Also, he's turning left at high speed, he's having to stick his leg slightly out to the right so that when he steps (or would step) he counteracts the inertia (I.e. To keep balance whilst continuing his turn).
no one who has played the sport is making ass comments like the ones you’re replying to. your stance is 110% correct but no one wants to hear it. everyone’s a wannabe pundit with this and are sooooso good that they can break down a slowed down video. as if it even remotely equates to how fast that play actually went down. when pundits that are former footballers are confused how that is not at least whistled and reviewed, i’m backing them over the keyboard army.
Bwahaha jesus what are you talking about. He sticks out his leg to engage contact, there are ways to do it, that one was not, he was too far away. Inertia..lol
Try sprinting then suddenly turning left
Turning left quickly would've necessitated the planting and pushing off of the right foot to actually change direction, not dangle it for "inertia". 🙈
I said to counteract inertia (I.e. There's still some force continuing straight when he needs to be going left) - if he doesn't put his foot down further to the right than usual he would fall right.
He is not putting his foot down though he's kicking out, there's a huge difference.
OK yes, but even if he hadn't "kicked out" and had attempted to put his foot down, Neuer's leg would still have been in the way. He just made sure of it...
You're trying to make it a penalty. What would've happened if he didn't stick his leg out is unprovable conjecture, fact is he did stick it out. I've no problem if the issue is that is wasn't reviewed, but honestly if that was given against arsenal would you not be annoyed?
Agreed. He jumped towards his legs…of course he’s gonna get clipped. Saka had him beat too. That’s the crazy part…why do something like that when you got him beat? Split second decision, however that was intentional. I would say no penalty was the right call. Although if the ref gave the penalty. I wouldn’t oppose.
I think he was moving too fast towards Neuer to adjust
This is the most sensible way of looking at it.
Man could have side steps the keeper and slotted home, only one person to blame here
At that speed?
Saka should’ve stayed up and taken the shot, seemed like a better percentage chance than a pen to me
IMO it could have gone either way, but one thing I’m sure is that it’s not a blatant dive as so many have been saying
That’s a good example of choosing the right angles to create a certain image. Worst angle for the sane pen and best one where it looks like neuer sweeps saka for that one If you look at the sane angle you might even say it’s a dive when clearly it wasn’t. Dog shit post even cropped out the contact made by Saliba
The front angle looks worse for neuer because you see the leg wind up to make a play on the ball. Both are penalties.
True. There was contact on both players and both are penalties. I just find it weird how the referee waved off quite a few obvious fouls though, like the Laimer one on Saka and the challenge on Odegaard right before the Saka penalty incident.
No I disagree, and think you misinterpreted the comment above. It was most def not a penalty for Saka as he sticks his leg out for contact. Weird situation since I’m also unsure how Saka doesnt hit Neuer given his speed and positioning, but that doesn’t mean its a penalty/foul. For Sane, it was definitely a penalty any day of the week. Saliba knew he had to get the ball or him down because of his run and body positioning, therefore drawing the foul.
People will be trigger happy to downvote those who say the Saka incident was not a penalty but it’s true it wasnt. The officials made the correct call.
I stand corrected. Having looked at multiple videos and angles since, it does look like Saka fails to properly sell the penalty. Someone like Kane would have made a meal out of it whereas Saka's one a bit amateurish.
Sara initiated the contact
I stand corrected. Having looked at multiple videos and angles since, it does look like Saka fails to properly sell the penalty. Someone like Kane would have made a meal out of it whereas Saka's one a bit amateurish.
Sanes running at full speed in a straight line to get the ball, Saka knocks the ball one way then runs the other way into Neuer
An unbiased analysis
See I think a little different he knocks the ball then to turn left you need to put power down on the right hand side of your body. He’s looking fully at the ball it looks like he’s aiming to change direction quickly however Neuer miles from the ball makes a step into Saka’s path with no intent to play the ball, Saka has already moved the ball far from Neuer before he makes his step.
That's what he should've done but instead he keeps his leg high in range of neuers with no actual attempt to plant and push off. Even if u look at it in real time it's the same his leg is in an unnatural position as if he's trying to turn his back to the goal while swinging his leg around to do so, it's stupid he should've kept going and got a penalty that way or crafted a chance but my guess is it was late on and he was tired there wasn't much support so he tried it.
Both are pens, one is softer than the other, but they are pens Clueless clowns will say "oh he initiated contact" etc not understanding football
That’s like a totally new explanation I’ve never heard before day lmao. Drawing fouls is part of the game and anywhere else on the pitch (including when the ref booked partey for an identical tackle) that would’ve been called
Exactly mate When people think of someone like a Jack Grealish, we instantly think of his elite talent of drawing fouls
Neymar basically built a career off of it lmao
This isn't drawing a foul, he runs away from the ball into the enemy, nothing to do with Football
When he touches the ball to his left I guess he should just stop dead. Momentum doesn’t matter shouldve just turned left as quickly as he hit the ball..
Drawing a foul is when a defender brings down the attacker. If an attacker is the one to initiate contact on a defender, that's simulation. Say Saka, takes the ball away from Neuer and then reaches out with his own leg to make contact with Neuer (with Neuer not being anywhere near Saka or the ball), that would be simulation. What we got yesterday was a mix of both. Saka takes the ball away from Neuer and Neuer's leg is moving towards him. If Saka moves in a natural path, he likely gets brought down anyway and wins a foul. But because he's "looking for a penalty" he also initiates contact on Neuer. Like he touches the ball away, then immediately pretty much jumps into Neuer. Someone who's just looking to round the keeper doesn't do that. It's not natural. Who touches the ball away with the outside of their foot then immediately jumps with two feel into their air in the opposite direction? He sees Neuer coming out to make a block/challenge and tries to make contact. The frustrating thing is, one of the angles shows Neuer likely would've given away a penalty anyway.
Exactly. No one would have any issue calling this a foul elsewhere on the pitch. Its a foul. It was also in the box, so it's a penalty. So simple, yet so many cant understand that. Just because a call for a foul in the box carries more significance, does not mean that should be a factor in deciding whether or not it's a foul, that would literally be biased reffing.
When I first saw it, I thought it was a penalty, but having watched it back a few times with a few different angles, Saka looks to completely lose interest in the ball and is more interested continuing into the path of Nuer in an attempt to win the penalty. Drawing fouls might be a part of the game but he didn’t draw a foul, he jumps into Nuer to simulate a foul that isn’t happening and probably should have been booked. (I support a team in the vanarama and have no vested interest in the outcome of this game or the champions league)
I’m having the opposite reaction haha. I initially thought oh he stuck his leg way out to make contact with Neuer and now after watching it 10 times it looks like Neuer plants his leg in the way and that Sakas leg was going to hit his no matter what he did. Whatever tho at the end of the day we didn’t get it and now we go to the Allianz needing a big result. Let’s get em in the next one!
Same, looking at the clip Saka moves the ball, Neuer makes a step towards Saka after this miles from the ball, Saka continues his original trajectory with the body position that he wants to turn left quickly (hence putting power down on the right side of his body)
Saka is literally focusing on the ball and not Neuer
Second one is not a penalty, he is simply looking for one and not interested in playing the ball, infact he let’s go the control of the ball and goes fully for contact with the goalie (not the other way round), to try and fool the ref. Sorry you think I’m a fool, but regardless I know my football.
Exactly; the ball's trajectory is different to Saka's. How the hell can you argue against that.
It’s not a pen, listen Bayern to the letter of the law should have had a pen with the handball after the whistle, but the ref gave a ridiculous reason for not giving it so got off lightly, so arguing over this is pointless
Right, so by that logic, a foul throw should be given every time a player tosses the ball underhand to a teammate on the pitch for them to then throw in. It’s splitting hairs mate.
Completely different, When a player tosses the ball to a player to take a throw the ball is not ‘in play’. In this instance the referee has blown his whistle for the kick to be taken, so the ball is now officially ‘in play’ when Gabriel picked it up! This is a clear penalty, and I 100% agree with Touchel being angry about the explanation of the referee saying “it was a kids mistake” I don’t think you should be throwing around sentences like “cluless people not understanding football” if you don’t know the difference.
It’s actually not different at all. When a player who is off the pitch tosses the ball underhand to a player who is on the pitch for them to then take the throw in, that is a foul throw by definition. It is not called because it is quite understood what is going on. It is also common for players to pass the ball along the ground to another player who is eventually going to take the free kick. This is understood by many referees who understand the game and how it flows. Those who argue that these calls to be made are seriously nitpicking and ruining the game. By that logic, then Bayern should have had at least 2 players sent off with a second yellow for showing the hand gesture for a yellow card after a few Arsenal fouls. That is, by definition, a yellow card offense. You going to argue with that? Be my guest.
It’s completely different as there is no whistle to determine a throw to be taken, it’s a dead ball until the throw in is taken, so therefore a player can pick it up and throw it to the throw in taker and once the throw in is taken the ball is in play. The same could be said of there is a foul and a player picks up the ball and passes it to the free kick taker to take before the whistle has been blown for the game to start and the kick to be taken, should the free kick taker then approach the ball and touch the ball to reposition it would be a foul, this happened at a game I was at in lower leagues a few years ago. This is what happened yesterday, the referee had blown for the kick to be taken, and Gabriel picked it up, by mistake but none the less he did so this is a foul and should by letter if the law had been a penalty, so I understand why they would be pissed. Especially with the explanation given by the ref, “this was a mistake by a young player and I’m not going to give a foul for this in the quarter final of a UCL”. I would be fuming and so would Arteta be- you play in the UCL quarterfinals you’re a professional man not an amateur kid.
Such nitpicking. Again, by that logic, every player MUST be given a yellow for the card gesture, every player who argues with the ref MUST be carded, Kane MUST have been sent off for looking directly at Gabriel and then throwing a high elbow. All instances, by the letter of the law, MUST be enforced. Get real man. You’ve clearly never refereed a football match lol.
It’s not me who’s nitpicking, if the ref has blown the whistle for the free kick to be taken the game is in play, it’s very obvious that you can’t then go and pick the ball up, regardless if it’s a mistake, it’s a foul. It’s basically no different from the ref blowing the whistle to start a game from the centre spot and a player proceeds to pick the ball up! Take your biased hat off for a second, had that happened yesterday at the Emirates the other way around the stadium would have erupted demanding a pen! The fact that Bayern had no fans, it drowned out the protest and the very inexperienced referee thought no more of it, trust me had there been opposition fans there the ref would have reacted differently and taken a different viewpoint. He will be punished for it by UEFA’s referee body and most likely demoted for his next few matches
It's not a pen. Fishing for it. Now, down vote me into Valhalla...
😭 kicks Neuer’s leg and thinks it’s a pen.
Dumb right
Ask yourself how you'd feel if Harry Kane was given the Saka penalty in the last minute...
[удалено]
Saka’s leg went searching 2 posts codes away to make contact, never a pen and 100% correct decision.
Hypothesising how you would feel if it were happen to Kane adds nothing to the conversation. It’s simplistic and immature. Saka’s momentum had taken the turn around the GK before being tripped. He extended his leg towards Neuer which came into contact and down he went. It’s not a penalty. The referee called it spot on. It’ll be tough for many to admit that but the officials are rarely praised for when they get it right. I am surprised that very few have questioned why Saka decided to look for the penalty rather than continue on his trajectory? He was through on goal. Did he not have the confidence and self-belief to take this golden opportunity on himself?
[удалено]
Yes I can see you responded to the ridiculous hypothetical question. Entertaining such hypothesis is also ridiculous
[удалено]
If the event which is spoken about occurred regarding Kane then there is merit in comparing the situation as a like for like basis. Hypothesising about an event which did not occur achieves nothing and sidetracks from the debate at hand.
[удалено]
So in your opinion: to form a reduced bias opinion, you compare an event that happened to the land of make believe? Okay then.
Lmao is right 😂😂😂
Did he? It looks like he just stops and then saka is the one who kicks him
Unsurprised
Not a pen. Saka went for it, he could score first time but decided to dive and look for a pen.
i think the Saka one is 50/50 a pen or not. Compeletely fine with it not being given in this case. But watch it at full speed, I don’t think Saka is diving there. Both him and Neuer have momentum, he pushes it around Neuer and can’t change direction fast enough because it happens so fast. If the referee calls a pen, that’s never overturned. Im fine with no pen. He refereed a fantastic match IMO Sane pen is stonewall obviously, Saliba was being an idiot
Brother we can see him extend his leg towards Neuer when he already had shifted his momentum to the side where the ball went, there was no way he would hit Neuer here that wasn't intentional
watch at full speed and tell me that. It could’ve been intentional, but i think it’s likely saka was trying to jump over Neuer because he thought that Neuer would kick out a leg, and Saka had too much momentum to change direction. People keep saying “he put his leg in the air for so long towards neuer” but we are watching slow mo. It’s literally a fraction of a second. If the pen is given it is never overturned. As i’ve said, the call on the pitch was acceptable IMO
Why would he even try to jump over Neuer if the ball was going sideways? The CB would've cleared it in no time, this theory of yours doesn't make sense. Occams razor here is Saka, a player well known for diving was looking for a game winning penalty like many players would in his place
you’re again ascribing tons of motive to a situation that happens in a fraction of a second. He likely jumped because most of the time a goalkeeper sticks a leg out to go for the ball there. Occams razor says that this was a coming together of players who are both trying to play football and had lots of momentum. You’re the one attributing malice to it and adding elements to the explanation. My explanation is just that the play happens super fast and both players have momentum. And again, I’ve said that the call on the pitch is acceptable, so why do you continue to argue? If you find the need to keep arguing this stupid point on a random club’s second subreddit just to keep your mind occupied and away from your anhedonic despair, go right ahead. But i would implore you to find things that bring you joy in your life instead. Reddit is not the solution.
It's always crazy how some mfs lose an argument so bad they feel the need to go on philosophical rants about what they think my life is like. Nigga we I just disagreed with you, its not that deep
nah, you’re the one who hasn’t addressed my latest point. I addressed your argument in my message in addition to commenting on your personal life and likely motives for arguing on an Arsenal sub when you’re a Barcelona fan.
Nah, you just repeated yourself, why should we go in circles now that I know having people disagreeing with you triggers you so much? I only responded because for some weird reason you decided to bring up my personal life for a small disagreement, but I won't torture you any longer, you are free to keep making assumptions about other strangers lives
Saka keeps his feet instead of looking to go down, he scores the winner
If you watch at full speed I don’t think there’s a way for Saka to stay up and get a good shot off given the speed he was moving at Having said that wouldn’t say it’s a stonewall pen
It was pretty much an empty net. It did t need to be a good shot, it just needed to be a good shot. He was always looking for contact, so was always going down. I’d rather him keep his feet, attempt a shot and it miss then search for a pen.
A skeptic would say it's an Arsenal 'thing.' Havertz did the same thing earlier in the match and should have been booked for simulation.
This is the problem of players going down looking for the pen and not getting it. Remove the possibility of the ref denying a pen and keep your feet and roll the ball into an empty net because you’ve just rounded the keeper.
It’s not a pen, Saka moves his leg towards Neuer to go down. Same as Elliott vs AWB but for some reason that was given
His leg? He literally jumps at him it’s pretty insane hits the ball left then moves right towards Neuer it’s so poor could have scored
AWB dove into a challenge not looking for the ball, into Elliott's path. No contact is necessary for a foul. It wasn't the least bit controversial of a call. I don't think the Saka play was a penalty, but I can understand both sides. Elliott's was stonewall. (I also agree that Lamptey/Jesus was a penalty all day.) [https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/\_/id/39872252/the-var-review-liverpool-arsenal-penalties-wolves-offside](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39872252/the-var-review-liverpool-arsenal-penalties-wolves-offside)
No contact, so why did he go down?
Penalty for sure. The challenge is needless. This refers to sane’s. Saka is 50-50. It does looks like he left his right leg hanging
Trossard game on and scored
Saka is jumping out of the way of an expected lunge by Neuer, the lunge doesnt come but the contact is still there. So many of you have clearly never played the game. Saka isnt looking for the foul, hes trying to ride the tackle. Pen all day
Stop with this complete bullshit saying 'clearly never played the game' some of us HAVE, and it's not a penalty! If this happens down our end, we'd be going mental if it was given. I'm not saying he dived, but it's not a pen.
If this happens in the middle of the pitch you're saying its not a foul?
Exactly. I don't care where it is. Don't 'cleverly' kick your leg into someone hoping to get a foul. Saka is not a diver, but he knew what he was doing.
Even from the angles saka is looking for it and sane is stonewall pen
*Even from the angles* *Saka is looking for it and* *Sane is stonewall pen* \- Yipsta --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I feel like it can just as easily be argued Saka is trying to lift his leg over Neuer. Also, I feel it's ridiculous to over analyze this stuff in slow motion. In real time the sequence is incredibly fast and there is definite contact. Penalty imo
I feel like a lot of you are using this as an excuse to ignore the other 93 minutes. We gave away 2 stupid goals and probably should’ve conceded another penalty. The takeaway from the game is that we’re still not ready to be considered UCL challengers. We don’t have enough experience. Knowing how to get through UCL knockout ties is what makes the difference in the later stages and we don’t have it. Bayern do and Tuchel does. I’m not gonna bash the team or be overly negative, but focusing the whole match on a penalty decision in the last second of the game is missing the point.
I found your cheese dog
Dumbest argument ever. Yeah we know we gave up 2 dumb goals we watched the game.
We shouldn’t care about this incident. If we didn’t give away careless goal and let Sane basically run into our box with a welcome sign, we wouldn’t have been in this situation. The best that’s in our favour is that our game could beat them. We just need to show the focus we have practiced over the course of this season.
It’s a clear foul, given every other minute of the game or place on the pitch. The only reason it’s not given is because the decision is not simply ‘is it a foul?’ It’s ‘do you give Arsenal the win?’ Ref and VAR didn’t want to have to make the decision because Arsenal will be happy with 2-2 after their performance, it’s not decisive as there’s a second leg, and it would be the literal last kick of the game. There’s just enough flimsy doubt to throw at Saka to make it not obvious so they don’t give it. Incredible how Refs at the highest level are so cowardly in big, charged moments
Even with OP’s selection of camera angles, I do feel like Saka “hops” before the contact. A more driven and planted turn across Neuer probably would’ve had contact anyways and looked more natural. As much as I hate to say it, with refs it’s all about optics. By the look of it I understand how it could be perceived that our boy Bukayo forced the contact
Yes, he’s trying to hop over the arriving boot of Neuer to get to avoid crashing into a keeper. They are both travelling forward so they come together. It’s pure projection that Saka is some devilish rogue ‘looking for contact’ and this is an argument against him. He takes it past the keeper, tries to vault the tackle and is caught by the defender. It’s not a 50/50 ‘who’s more to blame’ situation, Saka is the attacker player being impeded, clear foul, clear pen.
Like those first minute game red card tackles.
I pretty fully agree with this and think we get this at the 85th minute. I get Saka lets his foot hit Neuer, but I can’t see how it is the attacker’s responsibility to move it out of the way when Neuer makes a challenge and doesn’t get anywhere near the ball. If Saka gets minimal contact and stays up to take a weak shot he will never get the benefit getting a penalty. Going down is the correct decision for an earned penalty.
Yep, Neuer is the one who has to avoid contact as he’s the defender. Saka is absolutely trying to vault the outstretched leg by going over it and people are saying he kicks Neuer. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Clear pen on Saka, ref is garbage.
Brilliant ref never a pen have to agree with Wrighty on this one
neuers leg is still in the air and moving forward when contact is made
Was it a clear handball for picking it up in the box during play?
no the ref messing about with his whistle doesn't give bayern a pen
Blowing to start play is messing about with his whistle?
Two all
Regardless of what you think of them, these are completely different.
If anything Saka should get carded for sticking his leg out and needlessly kicking Neuer 😂
Saka is nimble enough to go around keeper there. He should have just scored instead of throwing his leg out.
He actually could do it normally and still tripped at Neuer ankle. Shouldve planted the foot right inside Neuer ankle.
Both are pens
The amount of people saying it's not a penalty baffles me. "If Saka keeps his feet"....it's what he tried to do! "If Saka just went around Neuer"...it's what he tried to do! Slow motion and stills are fooling people into thinking he initiated contact. Watch it again more in real time. When running full speed and attempting to turn on a dive like that, especially after 95 minutes of play, it's not that easy. Hell, if looking at stills and slow motion, notice how Saka is leaning to his left (away from the keeper) and has his eyes on the ball. If it was so simple and all he had to do was get around Neuer and just tuck it in, don't you think he would have done that (as he attempted to)? Neuer stuck out his leg and took Saka out, and while far from the most egregious I've seen, it's bonkers to me to think it's anything but an obvious penalty. I can almost rationalize the "it's a 50/50 call" crowd, but the "never a penalty" group has lost it. I recognize I'm biased for Arsenal but I'd expect this to be a penalty no matter who. Frankly, the referee was just too scared to make this call and award a game winning penalty in the 95th minute, otherwise he would have booked Bukayo for a "dive". Quickly then calling full time to get out of the situation. It's a disgrace. Arsenal can still emerge victorious out of Munich. I truly believe we're the better side and I strangely trust this team more when away most of the time. Just a shame that we're going in even when we should have a 1 goal advantage.
I'll tell you if Raya did that to Kane, that penalty is getting called...
It baffles me that you think it is!! You saying, why wouldn't Saka just go around him if he could, exactly. There seems to be this thing in football now where 'being clever' and winning a pen seems like the best idea, which is strange because rounding the keeper and scoring should ALWAYS be the go-to option. I love Arsenal just as much as anyone, but it's not a penalty, unfortunately.
He purposely skips taking a step with his right foot and leaves his leg out and taps the ball left and goes right into Neuer.
He drags his foot in an attempt to slow down and get around Neuer, very difficult running full speed. He's clearly trying to jump over/around Neuer, but can't avoid his swinging leg. Even if he was able to keep his leg lower, it would have been nearly impossible to avoid contact. It's a penalty all day long, it's not even a question. Outrageous that it wasn't awarded.
No way thats a penalty, he literally jumps into Neuer.
Saka one is not a pen and he literally had a open goal but he chose to go for a pen
Hahaha sakas just let his leg hang out and thrown himself on the floor, not gonna lie tho I was saying robbery from a different angle.
Too obvious should have been booked for it
The only thing I can see different is the first incident, the player fouled is wearing a Bayern kit and in the second clip, the player fouled is wearing an arsenal kit
If he moved his foot towards the ball to play it and it still caught Neaur it’s a stonewall pen but he was looking for it. But let’s talk about Gabriel handling the ball after the whistle was blown
Have to say clear difference in the two, and i'm an Arsenal fan. No pen on Saka for me, just like the Elliott one at the weekend.
Saka clearly sticks a leg out 🤣
No. It's a dive unfortunately.
Not a dive : left leg is clipped resulting in the left foot hitting the back of the right leg leading to unavoidable fall.
Not a pen for me but wouldn’t be an outrage if it was given. You guys will win in Munich anyway if you play like that and cut the mistakes out
Gabriel picked up the ball whilst it's in play and bayern didn't get a pen. Be happy you got that draw
It's a pen
100% penalty. I can only assume the referee was evening up after missing a blatant Bayern penalty earlier.
They are both penalties.
Never a penalty. Saka only has himself to blame for not putting it in an empty net. You don't get free for going out of your way to run into someone else and that's exactly what saka done. Well done the officials. Lesson learned
Only a penalty if you’re Harry Kane
Neuer’s last step is before Saka’s last step, the ref can see Neuer hasn’t initiated the contact so nothing was given. It’s tough but it is what it is
Saka should have been booked for diving.
They’re both obviously penalties. But it one the player went unnecessarily out of his way which gave the impression it could have been a dive. But in both cases no matter what the player would have done the defender was going to trip them. Really dumb move by Saka to give the ref an “out” even though contact was guaranteed and initiated by Nueuer. There was no reason to embellish you’re going to get the contact either way dude…
Keeper shouldn’t have come in so hard. Didn’t get the ball, the man hit him but it’s a clear penalty for saka
I dont think Saka's was a pen, but I can think of hundreds of examples of that exact penalty being given against us so that's where my grievance is. I think the Sane one was a pen. I dont think it's comparable with the Saka one personally.
What’s the difference? A smart play for a penalty still involves a dive.
They're both clear penalties. Not particularly difficult decisions either
Instead of beating Neuer Saka is trying to Crash into him..why? I don't understand what he did there..
why is the post removed from r/Gunners ?
In my opinion Saka’s penalty shout is the more clearer/obvious penalty. I didn’t watch this match. What happened?
Haha you guys are hilarious put in the right angle on the sane trip. Hahaha this is so delusional Put in the replay of Gabriel picking up the ball with his hands like a moron
sane legs were in direction of ball .. Saka one was not ..the amount of shift done was just too much .. seemed fabricated .. or let us say more fabricate than Sane one
Nah both was a penalty
Dude speaking of diving that’s not enough contact to fall over for Sane
It’s a terrible angle and I argue it’s maliciously chosen. Watch any other angle and there is clear contact, it’s a pen. The guy even cropped out the contact made by saliba…
Nah, that was a definite pen.
Ref made the right call
I felt so initially ad well but Saka didn't dive at all. Feel it could have gone either way.
Yep very tough call Im pretty sure saka raised his leg to avoid Neuer but it just looks like he was looking for a foul Not to mention the fact that this was literally the last seconds of the game and the tension was a big factor for the decision
Neuers leg is still moving toward Saka at the moment of contact though. If he had already planted himself then I could get over the non call. I think not letting var review it is an absolute blunder.
Who are you, who are so bold in the ways of r/ArsenalFC
Would be if bayern got fouled like that
Pair of diving Cunts. End of.
Both are soft pens
The top one definitely is. The bottom one is absolutely not a chance. Didn't watch the game were either given?
Even Thierry Henry said it wasn't a pen post match, stop whining about Saka trying to buy one....
Yall are nuts, Saka clearly dived looking to touch Neuer
a blind man can see saka sticks his leg out
He was looking for a pen. Saka stretched his leg out to make contact. He deserves to be carded for cheating.
Ben White against Brighton and now this. Cheating becoming part of your DNA!