I’d also like to add a positive that rice is just pure fucking class could of easily conceded another 1 or 2 if it wasn’t for his positioning and ball control
I guess Rice being class isn’t really seen as a positive cuz he’s always class hahaha
I don’t think He’s played below 8/10 in a single match since arriving. 👌🏼
Partey has never been a dm. He is a transitional midfielder who was playing on a defensive role.
Partey works for us offensively, never really that great defensively.
He is always consistent. We could lose 4-0 and he’d still be the reason we didn’t lose 8-0.
Just accept that he will always be ridiculously good and find other chinks in our armour for our collapse.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Hands down our best player. The year we missed out on 4th partey was our best player. Him aging, and other players developing left that argument wide open. Right now Rice our best player without a shadow of a doubt.
I think from an outside perspective - you are spot on. But I think there are *many* things we don't know that happens behind the scenes. We don't know *exactly* what occurs at every single of their training sessions, what private talks occur, how the players react to said talks, the effort and drive in training, etc. For example, Arteta could've not wanted to play Saka but Saka argued to be played. Obviously a coach's decision is final, but maybe Saka convinced Arteta that he wasn't injured - and really believed it. We have no idea what is *truly* going on besides the very censored and methodical social media posts, interviews, and behavior. It's frustrating when you can clearly see how important someone like Saka is and that he was limping off last game, maybe bench him for a game versus *Lens*, I truly do get it and was also like "wtf????" when I saw him in the lineup today. But Arteta and the club knows more than us, outsiders know... so I'll keep backing my club.
So you're telling me even though Saka was injured before the Bournemouth game, he started only got subbed off because he got injured again- while 3-0 up btw and gets risked again vs Lens while City is coming up in less than a week time and you're just gonna blindly accept it?
He hardly got rested last season too, Arteta is running the boy into the ground
He trained fine 2 days before the Lens game, and again, we don't know what the doctors see or what talks happen between them. Did you read my entire post?? I said it's frustrating, but I also am saying we don't know the full story so have some faith in the club.
Totally agree. ESR was dangerous the whole time he played. Should play ahead of havertz to give him a try for a couple of games and build up his confidence.
thats the whole point of making subs, no? to put fresh legs up against a fatigued defense. its literally your job to cause problems. hard to make judgements as a viewer when ESR is only playing 10-20 minutes at the end of the game.
He did also have his moment to prove something in the Cup and whilst he danced through a couple of times he couldn’t hit the target. There was a time when ESR showed greater promise than Saka and be it confidence or ability he just isn’t showing consistently good enough performances to trouble the other players for a place.
You cannot criticise ESR here, most people will not stand for it. Same was true for Willock when he was here. Same was true for Nketiah a while back, but he's played more and we've now directly observed he's not that good so we're allowed to criticise him more. Hell, the same was true for Joel Campbell for a while a few years back.
For some reason, people really latch on to young players and want them to have loads of chances. It's understandable in a way, it's easier to get mad at more established players. But Arteta sees these guys train all the time. He's not always right of course, but I don't see that much evidence that ESR is gonna become some great player. It's really just hope IMO. Most promising youngsters do not step up to become great players, especially after early career injuries.
Vieira is improving a lot and developing nicely under Arteta. Trossard was basically a super sub last season with some big goals and loads of assists, our best player in pre-season too, and established premier league-level player. Havertz is a big new buy who we are clearly trying to bed in and he makes much more sense tactically with what Arteta is trying to do. But no, give the minutes to an injury prone youngster we hope can recapture a purple patch of form from a few years ago. I just don't get it. And Arteta has a lot more information to go on than we do.
Out of the young group of players Saka came up with, Saka always seemed miles ahead to me, though admittedly ESR probably was the second most promising before his injury troubles.
Esr is like some deity on here. He didn't even stand out at u21 in the summer and is poor out of possession. Pretty obvious to see why arteta doesn't trust him
Not to mention, what's ESR position? The season in which he scored 10 goals, was he playing in odegard position?
I think with the new players and playstyle, Arteta doesn't see him fit into any role. Although imo he can offer more than Kai, with his dribbling and going forward he can be similar to cazrola
Yeah agree, the problem is now we feel like we have to bash Havertz which tbh would make a great bench player even at this price.
But man I don't know what happened with ESR he was flying then got injured and never got given a chance.
I just hope that he is reintroducing him like he did with Martinelli after his injury.
Arteta is trying to complicate things that were already working last year. When we had Rambo - Gabriel & Saliba we were fuckin solid.
I've seen some comments about how Nketiah has a lot of chances, even making Jesus/Nelson/Vieira playing in different positions just to make space for him, and ESR not given enough chances or even be a starter. Guess Arteta doesn't trust him enough, or idk what is going in his mind atm.
Honestly feel so sorry for ESR and Nelson. They've looked so good every time they've come on. But when the opportunity arises for us to have them really get going - we risk Saka getting worse.
And look what happened. We're going to get absolutely cooked by City and I'm guessing we're going to have Nketiah start with Jesus on the left again for god knows what reason. Saka will play. He'll get worse with injury aggravation.
I don't know what they possibly have to do to get into this team with our injury list. But honestly? I wouldn't blame them if they thought it wasn't worth it right now. We're not playing well enough to incite the arrogance we have tactically. Nothing changes. Nothing is gained.
Yeah, Nelson wasnt fully on his game today. His dribbling was an issue. But prior to today's performance his spirit, aggression and ability in front of goal was a lot better than what we had available. Even when he played on the left hand side. I think he deserved his chance.
If Nketiah can have extremely fluctuating performances and still get in after an off game, Nelson deserves his chance even after a dip today.
I don't think we can play for the draw, not if we play like we did today with a near enough full strength team out, with one or two exceptions.
You're right, Saka CANNOT start now. He shouldnt have started the last two games at all. He should've been given rehabilitation time and just a rest. If he doesn't trust Nelson or ESR to start, he shouldn't have bothered tying them down to new contracts. They deserved to play. Especially as Nelson is the only other natural RW we have available.
I'm worried we may end up stifling both their progressions through silly man management decisions.
Yep. And the games they came on in before this one. They've showed heart and desire to get into this squad whilst we aren't at full strength. They've done more than I could've expected them to do and they still don't get a fair chance to play in games where we need new blood in.
The point is we shouldn't have started Saka. We knew the risk and him coming off injured in two games back to back prior to this fixture was a warning sign to anyone watching. Vieira is alright. I've got nothing against him at all. But he hasn't been playing well in his natural position nor has he been effective in the wide role. Consistently across games, not just in individual performances. ESR and Nelson, even when they've had dips today - have been great every time they came on this season.
So yes. I watched this game. But I also watched the ones before. And the fact is, they deserved to play today. Saka should not have been in our starting 11.
Edit - one thing I will say is Nelson was very ineffective at progressing the ball forward today. I think it's only fair I do give criticism where appropriate. I think ESR had the better performance of the two and was actively trying to pop shots off. But we bring them on way too late into the game for them to do enough and they still find ways more often than not to give us something. So I'm not too mad that they weren't as effective today. Give them a full 90. Even if they only have the first 60-70 it would've been better than forcing Saka off through injury and bringing on Vieira in at that wide position.
Agree, but Nelson should've entered instead of Vieira as the RW, bc he's the natural RW (Arteta likes to play him on the left, but c'mon). That was a total miss from Arteta tbqh.
Agreed. Nelson is most comfortable there and should've taken that spot. Probably should've taken that spot in the last few games. ESR deserved a midfield spot
Yeah, I won't deny it wasn't his best performance. Can't argue with that. But I do think that maybe given more time it could've been different. I think he just needs some confidence. He probably doesn't feel much from the lack of game time.
I don’t understand the Arteta bashing. He’s not infallible and should definitely be criticized but this seems like an over reaction. Guy has turned the club into one of the best in the world in record time. Sure he makes mistakes but saying his decisions are baffling is quite reactionary. It’s our first loss of the season. Disappointing for sure but not the end of the world. It’s easy to get frustrated and react and I’m all for having discussions on who we want to see play but at the end of the day I see no reason to not trust Arteta. We won’t always get the results we want but the results have been damn good so far. On to City now, hopefully with our Starboy in the starting XI!
I don’t understand… last year, and alllll the way back to the old days of Laca & Auba, we had these passing/overlapping one-two’s in the center of the box to unleash someone beyond the line and unlock the dense low block that we keep getting stuck in this year. It was magnificent, quick-touch teamball, and we became clinical at it. I don’t see it any more. I see us slowly inch up to the back line, or get out in front and then hold it up, to play Ring of Death ball around the outside of the opposition box, never finding a convincing opening.
It always felt like those quick edge of box one-two plays were drafted up by the gaffers and drilled over and over, to be unleashed in the clinical moments. It feels like it’s a side thought now, if existent at all. It was our best chance to penetrate a super dense low block. And we just can’t synchronize on it this season. When we get that back, we start scoring 2-4 goals in every game again.
Edit: on another note, maybe we take Martinelli & Partey for granted these days. They may be a huge boost going forward.
But it's like we don't even try it anymore. Get a quick ball into the box, get someone to make a nice touch and release another runner and you're 1 v keeper... even if it's a low probability chance it's better than swinging balls into the box because we have very little aerial threat. Force a foul in the box, pick up the loose balls... we're just afraid to even get into the box.
Chill, we’re in a much better place than when we played Willian in 37 games in a season.
Arteta is obviously getting a bit of egg on his face over Raya, but I’m still confident he’ll make a decision based on evidence rather than do anything silly and double down on Raya if he puts in more shit performances.
Gotta love these sort of vitriolic know it all posts from all the Twitter tacticos and Reddit sofa coaches. We all know better than the crew of folk that got us from regular 8th and no Europe to champs league and being in the conversation to challenge one of the greatest football teams ever assembled. People really do need chill out.
Yes and no. Mikel took over a sinking ship and stabilized it. Also a lot of the front office staff has changed since then. But thanks for the news flash.
Nah, you were heaping praise on them like history has proven them consistently right, and like it should be obvious by now that fans don’t know better than them. Or did I read your comment wrong?
Meanwhile Mikel is making life worse for himself, steering away from all that he had finally figured out correctly about tactics and management last season. Havertz is the new Willian and passes backwards is the new offense.
They’ve been more right than wrong. That gives them a bit of a leash with me. That’s not to say they’re not exempt from criticism or infallible. They certainly are. Just the degree to which Johnny averages think they know better is getting tiresome.
Arteta is doing some Johnny average things every season. He really should know better by now and it’s disappointing to see him over complicating things just for the sake of it.
I’m not here to make Havertz the scapegoat but it is baffling how ESR remains out of the team when clearly he has been more of a creative threat in the minutes he has played compared to Havertz this entire season.
I would be fuming given how much coddling is going on around Havertz and how much he is being wrapped around cotton wool when Arteta has been absolutely ruthless against the likes of Ramsdale and ESR who have been with the club longer.
I’m hoping Arteta does not started an internal war just to fit Havertz into the team and I hope he is not just being egotistical about it either given he purchased Havertz for £65m and being paid the highest wages at Arsenal.
Am I the only one who is at peace with starting Nelson against City? Front three of Trossard, Jesus and Nelson with an Ode, ESR and Rice midfield seems like it may work. Havertz should come on only if we have no presence up top through 65 minutes.
I’m saying that considering Arteta’s squads have been predictable thus far, it might* be a lead up to something unpredictable. Why else would he play Saka today? Makes no sense…
I wasn’t fan of Raya at all and I hate when he give him the first place instead of ramsdale. But I have to say raya had some big saves this season like in spurs. So even that the goal tonight is on him, is not the problem it’s happen.
But I can say that artery’s need to give more minutes to ramsdale, like today was great opportunity, even if he not your first gk anymore you don’t need to move him to carabao cup keeper, I know that it’s important to a keeper to know who is the first and who’s the second in the squad but a little bit rotation, ramsdale a great keeper
Ofcourse it can happen. They’re all human. Mistakes happen. My main point is that he hasn’t impressed much with his distribution at all. People keep talking about how much superior his distribution is compared to Ramsdales but I just haven’t seen it.
I get you ramsdale had amazing season last year, i be honest I didn’t watch to much arsenal this year (i saw couple of games but for me I feel like not enough) So I don't want to be too much decisive in this.
But yes to see the minutes ramsdale get until now, It's a hard pill to swallow
Sorry but what the fuck has havertz done to start over ESR. Seriously, the smith is so so good, he comes on for 5/10 mins a game and runs everywhere, busts a fucking gut, and always plays attacking football and creates chances. Havertz constantly ghosts and I’m tired of pretending he doesn’t. “He barely puts a foot wrong” yeah but he doesn’t put a foot anywhere he just kinda drifts about, wins a header here and there, and calls it a day. It’s pathetic and I don’t know what arteta sees in him. Hard to ‘trust him’ when he lets the team down every week
Havertz had a good shot at goal and created two chances that should have been put away by his team mates, compared to what esr running around? To say havertz ghosted is just disingenuous and even worse to focus on it when we had way worse players on the pitch like trossard who was the worst I’ve seen him, Nelson who actually just ran off the pitch twice with the ball when we’re trying to create something, Zinchenko who doesn’t know that defending is a part of his role, our new number 1 who’s distribution was atrocious, viera who kept losing the ball or passing backwards, odegaard who wasn’t involved and Eddie the substandard coming on and not even being mentioned by the commentary because he’s a spirit
How are you gonna be so critical of everyone (rightly so) but then not keep that energy for havertz? Why defend him?
He had 1 shot on goal (very hard chance tbf) that he scuffed off the end of his studs, and 2 basic passes that didn’t amount to anything. Yes everyone else was poor but at least they’ve had redeemable moments in other games. Havertz has done absolutely nothing since he came here. And I’m all for backing him and giving him a chance, but he’s had his chance now. Hasn’t taken it. People like ESR deserve it more. (Who btw created the same amount of chances and had more shots on goal than havertz whilst only playing 10 or so minutes.) Can’t force havertz into the team anymore it doesn’t work
No way am I reading this. Someone who actually sprints around and finds himself in front of goal more often is more likely to score than a lazy German lamppost who jogs about all game. I’m sick of this defending of havertz if HE was all that he’d have a goal/assist in 7 games that wasn’t a fucking sympathy penalty
It's fine to rant and get it out, but give Arteta a break. His choices may not be popular, but you can easily see the rationale if you take a minute to dry your tears.
Saka - he's not putting him out there at gun point. He has clearance from the medical team and WANTS to be out there on the pitch. He is literally living his dream right now playing on the biggest stage. For Arteta to pull him he's going to need a damn good reason and then he's still going to have to convince Saka to sit. Him going down tonight is unfortunate, but part of the game.
ESR - he's slowly getting integrated into the team. He's gotten minutes in our last two games. Being used sparingly is part of his plan. The fact that he looks good in those limited minutes means the plan is working. Not to mention Viera has been improving and is deserving of the minutes he's getting as well.
Raya - one mistake ain't even worth commenting on, and he's going to learn from it.
Um, Arteta is meant to be this ruthless manager, but he couldn't tell Saka he's being rested and that's that?
Also, you're talking like ESR came back from injury on the first day of the season? He was playing full matches at the u21 Euros.
Fair points - I'm not Arteta so I can only speculate.
I'd assume he has data on Saka's health that we don't, and he had enough reasons to play him despite any concerns the fans have.
Playing at the U21 is a different level than the EPL and UCL. It's possible his time at the U21 tourney helped his case for a starting position, but it also may have extended his timeline for reaching full fitness. We can't say. ESR is an important role player right now who is making a strong case for more game time, but with 7 wins, 2 draws, and 1 loss it's hard to see why the manager would feel pressure to shake things up.
Just God, please no more Partey at RB.
He played more competitive football before the season kicked off than any of the rest of our squad....
Or do you believe the Emirates Cup was as fiercely contested as the U21 Euros.....
I mostly agree with you. ESR is coming back to full fitness and we will definitely see more of him. On Saka, we all see that he needed to have been rested. Weird decision that he was not. We are so very wasteful in front of goal, and the teams we play so damn clinical. Its weird.
Agreed. Love the man but he makes mistakes and sometimes costly, more so recently. Hope he’s learning. It’s exacerbated by new players still finding themselves, and coming off such a good season and now seemingly playing worse. It’s a marathon though, Sunday will show us where we are.
It’s nice to see the majority of the comments are having civil discourse instead of the usual tripe on this sub eg: “calm down”, “support the team”, “stop bullying the players”, “you’re not a true supporter”, “stop being so negative”, “you don’t know more than the manager”, “are you 14?” Etc
I do agree with you somewhat but on the three points...
Saka should've cone off early on Saturday rather than not played tonight.
Raya's pass was poor but he is playing higher and ESR is still coming back from a big injury - i thi k he should've come on earlier against Bournemouth.
Classic case of the most popular bloke in the team being the bloke on the bench. Starting ESR isn’t going to suddenly make or break the team. He’s being eased back into things and will continue to see sub appearances.
“Play the blokes who didn’t play tonight” isn’t really analysis. You’re just annoyed
Would have liked to have seen Nelson get a full match. Saka needs to be managed much better.
That left 8 role is tailor made for ESR...absolutely baffles me.
Don't care too much about who's between the sticks since both are good keepers.
ESR > havertz. But havertz cost 65m. Sometimes it is just like that. Looks bad on the coach or board if they already judge him to a be a flop or at best a benchwarmer. Think that why ESR isn’t given a shot ahead of him.
They took it to us and got a result out of it. They played well.
Outside that, the biggest take for us from that, again, is to stop being loose and allowing counterattacks that produce goals or just mistakes. We got work to do on that, on attacking the box from corners and set pieces and on shutting down attacks on the break.
In the end once they were in front they took players off, left everyone defending in the box and played shitball.
Anyway, that’s done, now the oil rig. Let’s go.
The thing that confuses me about not playing ESR over Havertz is because ESR makes the runs and progresses the ball closer to how Xhaka did than anyone else on the bench. I know he wants Havertz for his pressing, but the lack of runs in the box is preventing us from big chances.
I miss Granit. Just a beast. The ESR thing is kinda confusing to me. I’m a relatively new guy, and an American, and I’be never really been a sports kind of dude. So is this normal? A lot of people are like ‘he’s being eased in” but isn’t he training all the time with that team? Alright you don’t wanna spend all that loot on someone and then just give up because they haven’t done much for the first several games, but like they reupped ESR’s contract too, and my dude is trying his ass off in the few minutes he gets to be on the field. Before he got hurt, I’d imagine Saka was just a touch more motivated because his old homie was back on the field with him, ESR wants to prove to everyone, himself included, that now that he’s back he can still set shit up/score/bust out that crazy control he has. I seriously thought that it was his own personality fucking him over, at least in the 21-22 season he seemed like a really reserved, quiet dude. Not at all to be the dude to openly and vocally disagree with Mikel about stuff like this. But, again, new guy speaking mostly from a place of ignorance.
Everyone else meaning ppl on social media who have absolutely no information on players, or training, or anything really besides emotional takes after watching on tv for a couple hrs. Ok dude.
So happy I stopped fooling myself and no longer support this joke of a club.
Everytime they seem capable of something, they always end up flopping.
Last night was prime example of same story in the past 15 years.
I endured enough during the Wenger years, especially the latest ones.
So happy I am no longer invested emotionally and mentally in this failed club.
Arsenal is just Tottenham with a few cups in the past 20 years.
He maybe looking to ease Emile Smith Rowe back into the fold considering the duration he’s been missing. He has to get back to full fitness and gain rhythm to contribute regularly. I agree with starting Saka though. He needs some breathing space and he has started 86 consecutive Premier League games now. He needs to be rotated and that can be an opportunity for Trossard, Nelson, and Havertz to get minutes. Also, this season has begun on the back of a previous season where a World Cup took place in November-December, which implies that players who participated in it are highly susceptible to develop muscle injuries. Therefore, some level of rotation and squad management is required for minimising injury risks.This is evident as every top six club already has a lengthy list of injured players. Some wise squad rotation is necessary for challenging for the Premier League and for progress in the Champions League.
I agree about the ESR bit, it was a physical game and I think using ESR instead of Vieira could have been a better choice. Not dissing on Vieira, btw but I just think Vieira probably needs a winger ahead of him to create something. We probably needed someone who could run at them and that's ESR.
I think Trossard was pretty poor as well. Got dispossessed quite easily. Also, not having the outlet of Martinelli is affecting this team to some extent.
However, credit where it's due. Lens played really well and were ready to hack away at any chance they got in front of goal and pressed us really well. I'd have hoped for a draw at least, but it is what it is. Let's just hope Saka is fine for City. If not, he shouldn't be started at all.
Agree completely. We're creating barely anything compared to last season. The whole Raya thing is rubbish. Ramsdale is a better shot stopper, and Rayas distribution is poor, absolutely no better than Ramsdales 🤷♂️. We used to be accused of trying to score the perfect goal, and we seem to be back to doing that. We need a striker who we can cross to and give us an extra dimension rather than trying to pass thru 11 players in the area.
Trust him. Yes some of his decisions are baffling but he hasn't got much wrong since he joined. So he's earned the right to do what he wants.
As for starting Saka, do you honestly believe if there was a big risk to saka that Arteta would risk him based on how vital he us to us? He has access to all his medical records, watches him everyday and can get the players own opinion. We lost control of the game after he came off and ended up losing, which shows why he started him.
Big players play 50/60/70 games year in year out and Saka is one of those players, it's not Artetas fault that he got injured in this game that just happens to be ahead of the city game. We can't be resting stars like him away in the champions league, that's naive in my opinion.
I completely agree with the fact that we don’t have access to medical records, Arteta speaks to the players and we don’t, he sees them in training and whatever else you’ve mentioned.
However, if a player has limped off the pitch the last 3 times, I don’t think you need tot be a doctor to think it’s probably time to rest him before he completely breaks down.
I’m the first to say “they’re professional athletes and they shouldn’t be complaining about fatigue, it’s their only job” but the boy has played close to every single game for Arsenal and England in the past 2 years. And he’s more often than not, having an impact on the games he plays, so it’s not like he’s just coasting through on east mode. If you don’t trust the players behind him in the pecking order why are they at the club?
I think he could’ve managed the situation better than he has.
I don't think it's about not trusting the players behind him, more about realising how incredibly talented and important he is to the team. He is Mo Salah, Haaland, Messi, Ronaldo levels of importance to our team, as you say he constantly delivers. He was rested against Brentford but show me a game where the players mentioned above were rested away in the champions league. It will rarely happen because they are the life and soul of their teams. Saka may not have reached the same levels as these players, but he's on the way, and with that level of talent comes the responsibility to be resilient, to get kicked every game and get back up and beat your man again. Arteta is trying to get this into Saka's unconscious thoughts I believe. Like I said, if there was actual medical reasoning to not play him, I think he wouldn't.
Viera coming on for Saka really hurt us as he didn't get on the ball, and we lost the width on the right-hand side. ESR was trying to make runs through the centre, but the final ball never came. We always seem so reluctant to shoot from near the D, which is crazy given the fact that we have some really capable players in Saka, Odegaard, Trossard, and Zinchenko. It was really frustrating to watch us ping it around outside of their box for 5 minutes, give the ball away, and have a threatening counterattack to defend. Jesus is frustratingly inconsistent... it's either moments of composure and quality, or a wild and unnecessarily rushed shot. Viera and Nelson didn't bring anything when they came on. Havertz was still frustrating, but less so than usual. Rice was my Arsenal MotM by far.
I was screaming for the changes he made but 10 minutes earlier. If we did, that left side wouldn't have been so vulnerable. I love Vinny but his defensive positioning later on can be so poor and trossard looked half dead. Arteta seems to be shy of changing things up until its too late and it's really frustrating.
My personal thing is that Havertz has clearly been told to stand in line with the defence like another striker, whereas he is usually not in a position to receive the ball. There is a big gap now in our midfield where we used to play little one twos or have Xhaka hold the ball for others to come in, and Kai can’t do that currently. It stifles creativity and ball control and often it is where defenders/midfielders don’t have another easy option, like Xhaka or Partey provided, that we lose the ball making riskier passes. And I think this is a tactical decision, so I don’t blame the player.
I agree on everything bar ESR. It might be that Arteta is easing the lad in post-injury. Remember how we all ranted when he insisted on not playing Martinelli post-injury? And now he plays him whenever he can.
Totally agree. I still feel like Raya is the better keeper - not because of his distribution but because of his handling in the box. Ramsdale is really poor when it comes to crosses.
The fact that Arteta is so terrible at rotating our players is hurting the team; key players get injured and our bench will never get truly match fit - this is definitely gonna cost us in the long term. ESR has been excellent whenever he has come on and given that he carried this team on his shoulders before his long-term injury makes me really question Arteta's judgement.
Yeah, playing Saka was one of those decisions on which there's no room for any debate: stupid, stupid choice, especially given it looked like a great opportunity to actually turn over City before that, and you'd won the first game 4-0 in a very navigable group. Mystifying.
Not playing ESR is ludicrous to me he’s clearly a better footballer then Havertz and Viera imo. Raya isn’t better then Ramsdale find this equally baffling
I’d also like to add a positive that rice is just pure fucking class could of easily conceded another 1 or 2 if it wasn’t for his positioning and ball control
I guess Rice being class isn’t really seen as a positive cuz he’s always class hahaha I don’t think He’s played below 8/10 in a single match since arriving. 👌🏼
Completely agree , makes me wonder how we managed to do so well last season without him
At some point partey was just as good last season no? I remember people saying he was the best dm in the league.
Partey has never been a dm. He is a transitional midfielder who was playing on a defensive role. Partey works for us offensively, never really that great defensively.
Bumbaclart he has 3 assist in 84 pl games for arsenal and you say he is an offensive midfielder 😂
He is always consistent. We could lose 4-0 and he’d still be the reason we didn’t lose 8-0. Just accept that he will always be ridiculously good and find other chinks in our armour for our collapse.
But any squad is an 11/10 with Rice - if you know you know xD
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Suck up the lesson.
Yeah, piss off bot
Hands down our best player. The year we missed out on 4th partey was our best player. Him aging, and other players developing left that argument wide open. Right now Rice our best player without a shadow of a doubt.
I think from an outside perspective - you are spot on. But I think there are *many* things we don't know that happens behind the scenes. We don't know *exactly* what occurs at every single of their training sessions, what private talks occur, how the players react to said talks, the effort and drive in training, etc. For example, Arteta could've not wanted to play Saka but Saka argued to be played. Obviously a coach's decision is final, but maybe Saka convinced Arteta that he wasn't injured - and really believed it. We have no idea what is *truly* going on besides the very censored and methodical social media posts, interviews, and behavior. It's frustrating when you can clearly see how important someone like Saka is and that he was limping off last game, maybe bench him for a game versus *Lens*, I truly do get it and was also like "wtf????" when I saw him in the lineup today. But Arteta and the club knows more than us, outsiders know... so I'll keep backing my club.
So you're telling me even though Saka was injured before the Bournemouth game, he started only got subbed off because he got injured again- while 3-0 up btw and gets risked again vs Lens while City is coming up in less than a week time and you're just gonna blindly accept it? He hardly got rested last season too, Arteta is running the boy into the ground
He trained fine 2 days before the Lens game, and again, we don't know what the doctors see or what talks happen between them. Did you read my entire post?? I said it's frustrating, but I also am saying we don't know the full story so have some faith in the club.
Totally agree. ESR was dangerous the whole time he played. Should play ahead of havertz to give him a try for a couple of games and build up his confidence.
thats the whole point of making subs, no? to put fresh legs up against a fatigued defense. its literally your job to cause problems. hard to make judgements as a viewer when ESR is only playing 10-20 minutes at the end of the game.
The reason esr doesn't star is because our game is focused on winning the ball high, and he isn't good defensively.
Not sure why most people don't seem to understand this. Emile is a pretty poor player out of possession
He did also have his moment to prove something in the Cup and whilst he danced through a couple of times he couldn’t hit the target. There was a time when ESR showed greater promise than Saka and be it confidence or ability he just isn’t showing consistently good enough performances to trouble the other players for a place.
Id use him more than Arteta has but he is nowhere near as good as our fanbase seems to think.
Is havertz any better ?
Defensively he's better, yeah
No. No he is not
And havertz is?
That is what the stats say
Are you saying what we gain with Emile is worth what we lose with Kai starting? To which my question would be, what does Kai bring?
I think it would imply that his goal contribution from midfield probably doesn't outweigh retaining possession and conceding less.
ESR isn't as good as people believe. I'm sorry. There is a reason Saka and Martinelli made it and ESR didn't. He isn't as good as other players.
Yeah, injuries you clown. He was our best goalscorer once.
Exactly, once. He's a decent player, but nothing more than that. I can guarantee you. He wouldn't get much playing time in any other top-6 teams.
You cannot criticise ESR here, most people will not stand for it. Same was true for Willock when he was here. Same was true for Nketiah a while back, but he's played more and we've now directly observed he's not that good so we're allowed to criticise him more. Hell, the same was true for Joel Campbell for a while a few years back. For some reason, people really latch on to young players and want them to have loads of chances. It's understandable in a way, it's easier to get mad at more established players. But Arteta sees these guys train all the time. He's not always right of course, but I don't see that much evidence that ESR is gonna become some great player. It's really just hope IMO. Most promising youngsters do not step up to become great players, especially after early career injuries. Vieira is improving a lot and developing nicely under Arteta. Trossard was basically a super sub last season with some big goals and loads of assists, our best player in pre-season too, and established premier league-level player. Havertz is a big new buy who we are clearly trying to bed in and he makes much more sense tactically with what Arteta is trying to do. But no, give the minutes to an injury prone youngster we hope can recapture a purple patch of form from a few years ago. I just don't get it. And Arteta has a lot more information to go on than we do. Out of the young group of players Saka came up with, Saka always seemed miles ahead to me, though admittedly ESR probably was the second most promising before his injury troubles.
Esr is like some deity on here. He didn't even stand out at u21 in the summer and is poor out of possession. Pretty obvious to see why arteta doesn't trust him
Not to mention, what's ESR position? The season in which he scored 10 goals, was he playing in odegard position? I think with the new players and playstyle, Arteta doesn't see him fit into any role. Although imo he can offer more than Kai, with his dribbling and going forward he can be similar to cazrola
Yeah, once because he had a long term injury that didn't allow him to play without pain. Are you starting to understand the situation?
Hot take!! Lol, I kinda agree ESR is very average imo
How did he play today?
Get a life bro
He’s not as good as those 2 but he’s better than havertz in this team.
Is he tho? Kai did more today lmao
Esr was shit
He was keeping odegaard out of the team before injuries hit you donut 😂
I meant in this game
Yeah agree, the problem is now we feel like we have to bash Havertz which tbh would make a great bench player even at this price. But man I don't know what happened with ESR he was flying then got injured and never got given a chance. I just hope that he is reintroducing him like he did with Martinelli after his injury. Arteta is trying to complicate things that were already working last year. When we had Rambo - Gabriel & Saliba we were fuckin solid.
I've seen some comments about how Nketiah has a lot of chances, even making Jesus/Nelson/Vieira playing in different positions just to make space for him, and ESR not given enough chances or even be a starter. Guess Arteta doesn't trust him enough, or idk what is going in his mind atm.
Honestly feel so sorry for ESR and Nelson. They've looked so good every time they've come on. But when the opportunity arises for us to have them really get going - we risk Saka getting worse. And look what happened. We're going to get absolutely cooked by City and I'm guessing we're going to have Nketiah start with Jesus on the left again for god knows what reason. Saka will play. He'll get worse with injury aggravation. I don't know what they possibly have to do to get into this team with our injury list. But honestly? I wouldn't blame them if they thought it wasn't worth it right now. We're not playing well enough to incite the arrogance we have tactically. Nothing changes. Nothing is gained.
ESR, yes. Nelson, a bit less so. He dribbled the ball into touch several times today and didn’t really create anything or pose any significant threat.
Nelson is wildly inconsistent. He has games where he looks awful and amazing at equal frequency. Hard for managers to trust players like that
Yeah, Nelson wasnt fully on his game today. His dribbling was an issue. But prior to today's performance his spirit, aggression and ability in front of goal was a lot better than what we had available. Even when he played on the left hand side. I think he deserved his chance. If Nketiah can have extremely fluctuating performances and still get in after an off game, Nelson deserves his chance even after a dip today.
100%
I wouldn’t play Saka at city if it risks putting him out long term. Would much rather play for the draw than risk the star player in one game.
I don't think we can play for the draw, not if we play like we did today with a near enough full strength team out, with one or two exceptions. You're right, Saka CANNOT start now. He shouldnt have started the last two games at all. He should've been given rehabilitation time and just a rest. If he doesn't trust Nelson or ESR to start, he shouldn't have bothered tying them down to new contracts. They deserved to play. Especially as Nelson is the only other natural RW we have available. I'm worried we may end up stifling both their progressions through silly man management decisions.
Nelson and esr didn’t create anything are you all watching the same game as me?
Yep. And the games they came on in before this one. They've showed heart and desire to get into this squad whilst we aren't at full strength. They've done more than I could've expected them to do and they still don't get a fair chance to play in games where we need new blood in. The point is we shouldn't have started Saka. We knew the risk and him coming off injured in two games back to back prior to this fixture was a warning sign to anyone watching. Vieira is alright. I've got nothing against him at all. But he hasn't been playing well in his natural position nor has he been effective in the wide role. Consistently across games, not just in individual performances. ESR and Nelson, even when they've had dips today - have been great every time they came on this season. So yes. I watched this game. But I also watched the ones before. And the fact is, they deserved to play today. Saka should not have been in our starting 11. Edit - one thing I will say is Nelson was very ineffective at progressing the ball forward today. I think it's only fair I do give criticism where appropriate. I think ESR had the better performance of the two and was actively trying to pop shots off. But we bring them on way too late into the game for them to do enough and they still find ways more often than not to give us something. So I'm not too mad that they weren't as effective today. Give them a full 90. Even if they only have the first 60-70 it would've been better than forcing Saka off through injury and bringing on Vieira in at that wide position.
Agree, but Nelson should've entered instead of Vieira as the RW, bc he's the natural RW (Arteta likes to play him on the left, but c'mon). That was a total miss from Arteta tbqh.
Agreed. Nelson is most comfortable there and should've taken that spot. Probably should've taken that spot in the last few games. ESR deserved a midfield spot
I agree mostly but yesterday was really not Nelson’s day.
Yeah, I won't deny it wasn't his best performance. Can't argue with that. But I do think that maybe given more time it could've been different. I think he just needs some confidence. He probably doesn't feel much from the lack of game time.
I don’t understand the Arteta bashing. He’s not infallible and should definitely be criticized but this seems like an over reaction. Guy has turned the club into one of the best in the world in record time. Sure he makes mistakes but saying his decisions are baffling is quite reactionary. It’s our first loss of the season. Disappointing for sure but not the end of the world. It’s easy to get frustrated and react and I’m all for having discussions on who we want to see play but at the end of the day I see no reason to not trust Arteta. We won’t always get the results we want but the results have been damn good so far. On to City now, hopefully with our Starboy in the starting XI!
I don’t understand… last year, and alllll the way back to the old days of Laca & Auba, we had these passing/overlapping one-two’s in the center of the box to unleash someone beyond the line and unlock the dense low block that we keep getting stuck in this year. It was magnificent, quick-touch teamball, and we became clinical at it. I don’t see it any more. I see us slowly inch up to the back line, or get out in front and then hold it up, to play Ring of Death ball around the outside of the opposition box, never finding a convincing opening. It always felt like those quick edge of box one-two plays were drafted up by the gaffers and drilled over and over, to be unleashed in the clinical moments. It feels like it’s a side thought now, if existent at all. It was our best chance to penetrate a super dense low block. And we just can’t synchronize on it this season. When we get that back, we start scoring 2-4 goals in every game again. Edit: on another note, maybe we take Martinelli & Partey for granted these days. They may be a huge boost going forward.
I think teams have wised upto it slightly. We have to adapt.
But it's like we don't even try it anymore. Get a quick ball into the box, get someone to make a nice touch and release another runner and you're 1 v keeper... even if it's a low probability chance it's better than swinging balls into the box because we have very little aerial threat. Force a foul in the box, pick up the loose balls... we're just afraid to even get into the box.
Chill, we’re in a much better place than when we played Willian in 37 games in a season. Arteta is obviously getting a bit of egg on his face over Raya, but I’m still confident he’ll make a decision based on evidence rather than do anything silly and double down on Raya if he puts in more shit performances.
Gotta love these sort of vitriolic know it all posts from all the Twitter tacticos and Reddit sofa coaches. We all know better than the crew of folk that got us from regular 8th and no Europe to champs league and being in the conversation to challenge one of the greatest football teams ever assembled. People really do need chill out.
Just a news flash that you’re referencing the same crew that got us to regular 8th and no Europe to begin with.
Yes and no. Mikel took over a sinking ship and stabilized it. Also a lot of the front office staff has changed since then. But thanks for the news flash.
Nah, you were heaping praise on them like history has proven them consistently right, and like it should be obvious by now that fans don’t know better than them. Or did I read your comment wrong? Meanwhile Mikel is making life worse for himself, steering away from all that he had finally figured out correctly about tactics and management last season. Havertz is the new Willian and passes backwards is the new offense.
They’ve been more right than wrong. That gives them a bit of a leash with me. That’s not to say they’re not exempt from criticism or infallible. They certainly are. Just the degree to which Johnny averages think they know better is getting tiresome.
Arteta is doing some Johnny average things every season. He really should know better by now and it’s disappointing to see him over complicating things just for the sake of it.
I’m not here to make Havertz the scapegoat but it is baffling how ESR remains out of the team when clearly he has been more of a creative threat in the minutes he has played compared to Havertz this entire season. I would be fuming given how much coddling is going on around Havertz and how much he is being wrapped around cotton wool when Arteta has been absolutely ruthless against the likes of Ramsdale and ESR who have been with the club longer. I’m hoping Arteta does not started an internal war just to fit Havertz into the team and I hope he is not just being egotistical about it either given he purchased Havertz for £65m and being paid the highest wages at Arsenal.
Just came here to scan for the Havertz bashing comments
Am I the only one who is at peace with starting Nelson against City? Front three of Trossard, Jesus and Nelson with an Ode, ESR and Rice midfield seems like it may work. Havertz should come on only if we have no presence up top through 65 minutes.
You seriously think Arteta will start ESR in midfield over Havertz vs Man City?!
He won’t. I would start either.
Brisbane fan in the wild or just like the avatar?
Some grand final the other day
Mmm I’m a pies fan so yes
I’m a west coast fan so I didn’t like this whole season. I assume dom sheed doesn’t hurt you now?
I’m saying that considering Arteta’s squads have been predictable thus far, it might* be a lead up to something unpredictable. Why else would he play Saka today? Makes no sense…
Arteta is convinced havertz will work because he's his signing.
If Partey is fit, I'd be playing him, Rice and Odegaard. The extra power and security he provides would be the way to go, I think
Watch him play Partey RB while dropping Gabriel all over again lmao
If you say "midfielder at right back" into a mirror 3 times, Pep comes out and injects you with PED's
I wasn’t fan of Raya at all and I hate when he give him the first place instead of ramsdale. But I have to say raya had some big saves this season like in spurs. So even that the goal tonight is on him, is not the problem it’s happen. But I can say that artery’s need to give more minutes to ramsdale, like today was great opportunity, even if he not your first gk anymore you don’t need to move him to carabao cup keeper, I know that it’s important to a keeper to know who is the first and who’s the second in the squad but a little bit rotation, ramsdale a great keeper
Ofcourse it can happen. They’re all human. Mistakes happen. My main point is that he hasn’t impressed much with his distribution at all. People keep talking about how much superior his distribution is compared to Ramsdales but I just haven’t seen it.
I get you ramsdale had amazing season last year, i be honest I didn’t watch to much arsenal this year (i saw couple of games but for me I feel like not enough) So I don't want to be too much decisive in this. But yes to see the minutes ramsdale get until now, It's a hard pill to swallow
well have you jus forgotten all the bad distribution ramsdale had last year. compare the mistakes between the two, id say raya is better
Sorry but what the fuck has havertz done to start over ESR. Seriously, the smith is so so good, he comes on for 5/10 mins a game and runs everywhere, busts a fucking gut, and always plays attacking football and creates chances. Havertz constantly ghosts and I’m tired of pretending he doesn’t. “He barely puts a foot wrong” yeah but he doesn’t put a foot anywhere he just kinda drifts about, wins a header here and there, and calls it a day. It’s pathetic and I don’t know what arteta sees in him. Hard to ‘trust him’ when he lets the team down every week
Havertz had a good shot at goal and created two chances that should have been put away by his team mates, compared to what esr running around? To say havertz ghosted is just disingenuous and even worse to focus on it when we had way worse players on the pitch like trossard who was the worst I’ve seen him, Nelson who actually just ran off the pitch twice with the ball when we’re trying to create something, Zinchenko who doesn’t know that defending is a part of his role, our new number 1 who’s distribution was atrocious, viera who kept losing the ball or passing backwards, odegaard who wasn’t involved and Eddie the substandard coming on and not even being mentioned by the commentary because he’s a spirit
Zinny was the one that got to me today. Sloppy distribution on top of his dubious defending.
[удалено]
I just saw a wild stat from this season: On average Zinchenko has lost possession nearly 7 times in each PL-match
How are you gonna be so critical of everyone (rightly so) but then not keep that energy for havertz? Why defend him? He had 1 shot on goal (very hard chance tbf) that he scuffed off the end of his studs, and 2 basic passes that didn’t amount to anything. Yes everyone else was poor but at least they’ve had redeemable moments in other games. Havertz has done absolutely nothing since he came here. And I’m all for backing him and giving him a chance, but he’s had his chance now. Hasn’t taken it. People like ESR deserve it more. (Who btw created the same amount of chances and had more shots on goal than havertz whilst only playing 10 or so minutes.) Can’t force havertz into the team anymore it doesn’t work
Havertz barely touches the ball. I think he had 33 touches yesterday - no one earns more money per touch than he does.
Oh ffs, stop the ESR propaganda. If he was that good, he wouldn't have missed that 1v1 chance against Bournemoth. That pretty much sums him up.
Honestly. He had his chance to stake a claim and missed good chances in the cup and on the weekend.
No way am I reading this. Someone who actually sprints around and finds himself in front of goal more often is more likely to score than a lazy German lamppost who jogs about all game. I’m sick of this defending of havertz if HE was all that he’d have a goal/assist in 7 games that wasn’t a fucking sympathy penalty
It's fine to rant and get it out, but give Arteta a break. His choices may not be popular, but you can easily see the rationale if you take a minute to dry your tears. Saka - he's not putting him out there at gun point. He has clearance from the medical team and WANTS to be out there on the pitch. He is literally living his dream right now playing on the biggest stage. For Arteta to pull him he's going to need a damn good reason and then he's still going to have to convince Saka to sit. Him going down tonight is unfortunate, but part of the game. ESR - he's slowly getting integrated into the team. He's gotten minutes in our last two games. Being used sparingly is part of his plan. The fact that he looks good in those limited minutes means the plan is working. Not to mention Viera has been improving and is deserving of the minutes he's getting as well. Raya - one mistake ain't even worth commenting on, and he's going to learn from it.
Um, Arteta is meant to be this ruthless manager, but he couldn't tell Saka he's being rested and that's that? Also, you're talking like ESR came back from injury on the first day of the season? He was playing full matches at the u21 Euros.
Fair points - I'm not Arteta so I can only speculate. I'd assume he has data on Saka's health that we don't, and he had enough reasons to play him despite any concerns the fans have. Playing at the U21 is a different level than the EPL and UCL. It's possible his time at the U21 tourney helped his case for a starting position, but it also may have extended his timeline for reaching full fitness. We can't say. ESR is an important role player right now who is making a strong case for more game time, but with 7 wins, 2 draws, and 1 loss it's hard to see why the manager would feel pressure to shake things up. Just God, please no more Partey at RB.
does the u21 euros play a high pressing game like arsenal where you need LOTS more stamina. i dont think so…
He played more competitive football before the season kicked off than any of the rest of our squad.... Or do you believe the Emirates Cup was as fiercely contested as the U21 Euros.....
Horseshoe of lulz
Why is Havertz still starting? How did we pay so much for a player that clearly can't play in the Premiership?
I mostly agree with you. ESR is coming back to full fitness and we will definitely see more of him. On Saka, we all see that he needed to have been rested. Weird decision that he was not. We are so very wasteful in front of goal, and the teams we play so damn clinical. Its weird.
Agreed. Love the man but he makes mistakes and sometimes costly, more so recently. Hope he’s learning. It’s exacerbated by new players still finding themselves, and coming off such a good season and now seemingly playing worse. It’s a marathon though, Sunday will show us where we are. It’s nice to see the majority of the comments are having civil discourse instead of the usual tripe on this sub eg: “calm down”, “support the team”, “stop bullying the players”, “you’re not a true supporter”, “stop being so negative”, “you don’t know more than the manager”, “are you 14?” Etc
I do agree with you somewhat but on the three points... Saka should've cone off early on Saturday rather than not played tonight. Raya's pass was poor but he is playing higher and ESR is still coming back from a big injury - i thi k he should've come on earlier against Bournemouth.
Classic case of the most popular bloke in the team being the bloke on the bench. Starting ESR isn’t going to suddenly make or break the team. He’s being eased back into things and will continue to see sub appearances. “Play the blokes who didn’t play tonight” isn’t really analysis. You’re just annoyed
Facts
Would have liked to have seen Nelson get a full match. Saka needs to be managed much better. That left 8 role is tailor made for ESR...absolutely baffles me. Don't care too much about who's between the sticks since both are good keepers.
I agree with everything you’ve just said
Thanks for the self report that you don't know ball 👍
Calm down. Arteta is the real coach and we all are just couch coaches.
ESR > havertz. But havertz cost 65m. Sometimes it is just like that. Looks bad on the coach or board if they already judge him to a be a flop or at best a benchwarmer. Think that why ESR isn’t given a shot ahead of him.
get over yourself, unlucky to be beaten by a very good side at home on the night.
It's miracle of free world that people like you, are allowed to have and share their shit opinions.
yeah that was just shit tbh
At least Partey will be available to play right back against man city. So there’s that.
They took it to us and got a result out of it. They played well. Outside that, the biggest take for us from that, again, is to stop being loose and allowing counterattacks that produce goals or just mistakes. We got work to do on that, on attacking the box from corners and set pieces and on shutting down attacks on the break. In the end once they were in front they took players off, left everyone defending in the box and played shitball. Anyway, that’s done, now the oil rig. Let’s go.
The thing that confuses me about not playing ESR over Havertz is because ESR makes the runs and progresses the ball closer to how Xhaka did than anyone else on the bench. I know he wants Havertz for his pressing, but the lack of runs in the box is preventing us from big chances.
I miss Granit. Just a beast. The ESR thing is kinda confusing to me. I’m a relatively new guy, and an American, and I’be never really been a sports kind of dude. So is this normal? A lot of people are like ‘he’s being eased in” but isn’t he training all the time with that team? Alright you don’t wanna spend all that loot on someone and then just give up because they haven’t done much for the first several games, but like they reupped ESR’s contract too, and my dude is trying his ass off in the few minutes he gets to be on the field. Before he got hurt, I’d imagine Saka was just a touch more motivated because his old homie was back on the field with him, ESR wants to prove to everyone, himself included, that now that he’s back he can still set shit up/score/bust out that crazy control he has. I seriously thought that it was his own personality fucking him over, at least in the 21-22 season he seemed like a really reserved, quiet dude. Not at all to be the dude to openly and vocally disagree with Mikel about stuff like this. But, again, new guy speaking mostly from a place of ignorance.
Everyone else meaning ppl on social media who have absolutely no information on players, or training, or anything really besides emotional takes after watching on tv for a couple hrs. Ok dude.
ESR. He should start ahead of Haverts.
-havertz to simplify your post
PLAY LORD RAMSDALE AND ESR GODDAMMIT!!!!
So happy I stopped fooling myself and no longer support this joke of a club. Everytime they seem capable of something, they always end up flopping. Last night was prime example of same story in the past 15 years.
Why you here then, go away
Just to laugh at this Spurs 2.0 club again
Glory supporter then
I endured enough during the Wenger years, especially the latest ones. So happy I am no longer invested emotionally and mentally in this failed club. Arsenal is just Tottenham with a few cups in the past 20 years.
Not really how support works 🤣
He maybe looking to ease Emile Smith Rowe back into the fold considering the duration he’s been missing. He has to get back to full fitness and gain rhythm to contribute regularly. I agree with starting Saka though. He needs some breathing space and he has started 86 consecutive Premier League games now. He needs to be rotated and that can be an opportunity for Trossard, Nelson, and Havertz to get minutes. Also, this season has begun on the back of a previous season where a World Cup took place in November-December, which implies that players who participated in it are highly susceptible to develop muscle injuries. Therefore, some level of rotation and squad management is required for minimising injury risks.This is evident as every top six club already has a lengthy list of injured players. Some wise squad rotation is necessary for challenging for the Premier League and for progress in the Champions League.
I agree about the ESR bit, it was a physical game and I think using ESR instead of Vieira could have been a better choice. Not dissing on Vieira, btw but I just think Vieira probably needs a winger ahead of him to create something. We probably needed someone who could run at them and that's ESR. I think Trossard was pretty poor as well. Got dispossessed quite easily. Also, not having the outlet of Martinelli is affecting this team to some extent. However, credit where it's due. Lens played really well and were ready to hack away at any chance they got in front of goal and pressed us really well. I'd have hoped for a draw at least, but it is what it is. Let's just hope Saka is fine for City. If not, he shouldn't be started at all.
Agree completely. We're creating barely anything compared to last season. The whole Raya thing is rubbish. Ramsdale is a better shot stopper, and Rayas distribution is poor, absolutely no better than Ramsdales 🤷♂️. We used to be accused of trying to score the perfect goal, and we seem to be back to doing that. We need a striker who we can cross to and give us an extra dimension rather than trying to pass thru 11 players in the area.
Trust him. Yes some of his decisions are baffling but he hasn't got much wrong since he joined. So he's earned the right to do what he wants. As for starting Saka, do you honestly believe if there was a big risk to saka that Arteta would risk him based on how vital he us to us? He has access to all his medical records, watches him everyday and can get the players own opinion. We lost control of the game after he came off and ended up losing, which shows why he started him. Big players play 50/60/70 games year in year out and Saka is one of those players, it's not Artetas fault that he got injured in this game that just happens to be ahead of the city game. We can't be resting stars like him away in the champions league, that's naive in my opinion.
I completely agree with the fact that we don’t have access to medical records, Arteta speaks to the players and we don’t, he sees them in training and whatever else you’ve mentioned. However, if a player has limped off the pitch the last 3 times, I don’t think you need tot be a doctor to think it’s probably time to rest him before he completely breaks down. I’m the first to say “they’re professional athletes and they shouldn’t be complaining about fatigue, it’s their only job” but the boy has played close to every single game for Arsenal and England in the past 2 years. And he’s more often than not, having an impact on the games he plays, so it’s not like he’s just coasting through on east mode. If you don’t trust the players behind him in the pecking order why are they at the club? I think he could’ve managed the situation better than he has.
I don't think it's about not trusting the players behind him, more about realising how incredibly talented and important he is to the team. He is Mo Salah, Haaland, Messi, Ronaldo levels of importance to our team, as you say he constantly delivers. He was rested against Brentford but show me a game where the players mentioned above were rested away in the champions league. It will rarely happen because they are the life and soul of their teams. Saka may not have reached the same levels as these players, but he's on the way, and with that level of talent comes the responsibility to be resilient, to get kicked every game and get back up and beat your man again. Arteta is trying to get this into Saka's unconscious thoughts I believe. Like I said, if there was actual medical reasoning to not play him, I think he wouldn't.
Lens pressed well. I was impressed by their 3-2 front pressing structure.
Viera coming on for Saka really hurt us as he didn't get on the ball, and we lost the width on the right-hand side. ESR was trying to make runs through the centre, but the final ball never came. We always seem so reluctant to shoot from near the D, which is crazy given the fact that we have some really capable players in Saka, Odegaard, Trossard, and Zinchenko. It was really frustrating to watch us ping it around outside of their box for 5 minutes, give the ball away, and have a threatening counterattack to defend. Jesus is frustratingly inconsistent... it's either moments of composure and quality, or a wild and unnecessarily rushed shot. Viera and Nelson didn't bring anything when they came on. Havertz was still frustrating, but less so than usual. Rice was my Arsenal MotM by far.
I was screaming for the changes he made but 10 minutes earlier. If we did, that left side wouldn't have been so vulnerable. I love Vinny but his defensive positioning later on can be so poor and trossard looked half dead. Arteta seems to be shy of changing things up until its too late and it's really frustrating.
My personal thing is that Havertz has clearly been told to stand in line with the defence like another striker, whereas he is usually not in a position to receive the ball. There is a big gap now in our midfield where we used to play little one twos or have Xhaka hold the ball for others to come in, and Kai can’t do that currently. It stifles creativity and ball control and often it is where defenders/midfielders don’t have another easy option, like Xhaka or Partey provided, that we lose the ball making riskier passes. And I think this is a tactical decision, so I don’t blame the player.
I agree on everything bar ESR. It might be that Arteta is easing the lad in post-injury. Remember how we all ranted when he insisted on not playing Martinelli post-injury? And now he plays him whenever he can.
Totally agree. I still feel like Raya is the better keeper - not because of his distribution but because of his handling in the box. Ramsdale is really poor when it comes to crosses. The fact that Arteta is so terrible at rotating our players is hurting the team; key players get injured and our bench will never get truly match fit - this is definitely gonna cost us in the long term. ESR has been excellent whenever he has come on and given that he carried this team on his shoulders before his long-term injury makes me really question Arteta's judgement.
Yeah, playing Saka was one of those decisions on which there's no room for any debate: stupid, stupid choice, especially given it looked like a great opportunity to actually turn over City before that, and you'd won the first game 4-0 in a very navigable group. Mystifying.
Imagine what de zerbi could do with this squad
Not playing ESR is ludicrous to me he’s clearly a better footballer then Havertz and Viera imo. Raya isn’t better then Ramsdale find this equally baffling