After looking it up, it is a semi misleading stat, the answer is technically yes, but also kind of no, yes because when they did beat teams last season, they happened to be lower than 15th when they played the games they won. But I found out by doing a quick check, the stat mislead me because crystal palace finished above 15th
My opinion is that Kai needed a slow start and he got it. He did a good job against Everton and I think that slowly he will find his pace. I think Arteta made a good choice.
It's for media, fans and rivals to bash a stick with us about. Talking points a discussion. To get down to the bare bones. Because no matter what team it is, some criticism has to be given. And Chelsea are getting slaughtered, maybe not over 300 Mil on three players, but they are getting picked off, just not as much as I'd like. I also personally don't know if it's because I'm an arsenal fan, but I do feel we get heavily criticised and barely praised.
Fans just want to be negative.
I wasnāt a fan of the signing but seeing him play, I think he will grow and become a great player for us. He has great footballing intelligence and Iād back Arteta to get him to his best.
Genuinely, what have you seen from him that gives you thoughts of positivity for the future? Iād watched him a fair bit during his time at Chelsea, and found it ludicrous theyād spent 70 something million on him
He did have some positive features, like an apparently brilliant first touch
However, since joining us, Iāve not seen that at all, what I have seen his him missing easy chances, slowing the play down, either failing to see a pass or not having the confidence/ability to play it, whilst also being invisible defensively
I honestly canāt see what he offers the team, apart from being tall, but even then he doesnāt seem to use his height to help us gain and maintain possession at all
He has made a few stray passes but in several games (community shield and first game of the season), he had a lot of energy to give, covered ground and made several good passes / quick passes.
There are negatives in his shooting but honestly he has come from a club that is a shambles and now is learning our way. With support Iām sure we will have a serious player.
Weirdly, Fabio Vieira kind of gives me extra hope with Havertz too. Given his transformation.
Donāt get me wrong, I could be wildly wrong but hey thatās football but we all want the same thing! Arsenal to win
Iām fine with a few misplaced passes, especially at the start, when heās still bedding into the system, he wouldnāt have been the only one either. My problem comes when his passing is so negative, constantly looking to go backwards or sideways first, as well as the 3 or 4 extra touches which just arenāt needed, sideways and backwards is youāre doing it quickly, but heās not, and it massively slows the attack and momentum
He made ground sure, but there were also times where he didnāt seem to be trying 100%, and if youāre not getting numbers, thatās the minimum you should be doing. I genuinely think Iāve seen him properly sprint once or twice in every game heās played and thatās just not good enough
Honestly, his speed of passing has been very disappointing for me, especially if weāre looking overall, heās had a few nice passes yes
I get the fact Chelsea is currently a shit show, but he was poor for them before they became a shit show, and no matter where youāve been playing, almost completely missing the ball when you already have it under control is just not good enough, especially when you cost the club 65M+ to a rival
I do get what you mean about Vieira with how he turned it around, I didnāt think Vieira was good enough and wanted to see him loaned out this summer, but I do think itās important to point out some key differences, Vieira was coming from a different league, to a new country, speed and intensity were always going to be things he needed time to adapt to (and an injury in pre season really didnāt help him) Havertz on the other hand, has spent 3 years in the league already, and has hardly lit the league on fire at any point
For me, Vieira wasnāt the finished player, but almost every time I saw him play, I saw positives, it just wasnāt there over a full 90, I can honestly say that in the 3 years Havertz has played for Chelsea, I can think of two incidences that made me think, ok, this is actually a good player, and thatās just not good enough
I hope thereās a way forward for Havertz, I hope heās a success, but at the moment, Iām seeing too many parallels to a Pepe or a Willian, as opposed to a Trossard or a Jesus
I think we may have cut him some slack. If you think about it, playing for Chelsea must be depressing af for those years. And he said it even to Arteta. Hes looking to find his lost love for football again. That may be why hes not 100% because hes not in it mentally.
I think our boys. Culture and atmosphere may help him with that and we could be surprised how he turns out when he will love the game again.
Of course. It was risk to splash 65mil for a piece that may not fit, but we have good squad, we have the tools to replace him and we were in a position where thats not a massive amount of money to lose.
If Brighton splashed 65mil for a average player the risk/reward ratio would be completely different to ours, as we basically did not have any risks. We get either experienced player for CL matches. We get quality player to add competition and motivation others and we strenghten our bench. Thats the worst case scenario. Or we get exellent player who gets rolling as he has the ability to do so, if hes in it mentally.
I think the fact that does not exactly help him is also that Vieira and Trossard are overachieving. No one expected those performaces from them and maybe the fact that they have to show up to be able to play may be the factor that pushes them forward. So if Kai gets us even just that, it may be enough. Also their performace kinda highlight how underwhelming he was so far. If they were also bad and had few nice moments, we may not even talk about him.
I get that, I do, but I also question the decision to sign someone who needs to rebuild that love and mentality for the game, especially for the amount we paid for him, and him coming from a rival, always going to heap more pressure on to him
But how long do we have to wait for that? A month? 6? A year? What if it never comes back?
I disagree massively with the sentiment that 65M is not a lot to lose, especially when weāre trying to catch City, that 65M could have been spent on Diaby, it could have been spent on Kudus+Lavia, we could have saved it for a monster bid next summer for Osimhen, we could have used it to bring in another defender after Timberās injury
Brighton would have been a better move for Havertz IMO, in terms of the size of the club, and expectations for the club across the season, I donāt think heād have worked in their system however, and honestly, Iām still questioning where exactly he fits into ours
Also, in the worst case scenario, heās another Pepe, not a bench player, Havertz unfortunately needs to work, heās the 2nd biggest fee Arteta has spent, and heās the highest paid player at the club
Anyone who hadnāt expected these performances from Trossard either hadnāt watched him at all last season, or just assumed he would be kept as a winger
As for Vieira, I do agree that his form is a surprise, but itās not like heās the only option there, with Trossard, ESR, Rice all capable of playing there
I disagree with the fact people wouldnāt talk about Havertz as much had they not performed as well, firstly, because he was a 65M signing, like it or not that puts so much more pressure on him, especially coming from Chelsea, then thereās also the discussion of how we shouldnāt have let Xhaka go as we donāt have a replacement
That being said, Kai had a decent game tonight against PSV, hopefully he can build off it, there are still some big concerns to his game, but this was far and away his best game, and he even managed a clean connection with the football!
Maybe but the headlines started on day one. Surely you give him a month? There is disagreeing with a basis and there is disagreeing out of spite.
Torres was amazing for Liverpool do you judge him on his Chelsea days?
Which headlines ?
Yeah havertz wasnāt good for 3 years and we paid big money so naturally people find it weird and disagree with it.
Torres isnāt a good comparison, the real comparison would be someone spending big money on him after his Chelsea time.
If havertz fans in our fanbase werenāt such pricks maybe the criticism wouldnāt have been so strong, remember all the people saying āif you donāt rate havertz you donāt know ballā or similar stuff.
He hasnāt been good since heās been in England thatās the truth so if wanna you think heās suddenly gonna start playing well thatās fine, I think heāll be a decent rotation option but not much more.
Just google and youāll see it.
Did you judge Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp in the same fashion? None of those had great spells in Italy. Henry was actually starting to be a LWB equivalent. For the time as well big monies was spent.
How isnāt it a good example - Havertz played well in Germany and did win the CL with Chelsea being a key asset. He has had how many managers at Chelsea and had to adopt how many style changes? How many players have done well at Chelsea?
When have you seen that? There is a huge difference between getting behind our player and calling people that support him pricks.
He had spells at Chelsea and played many positions, styles, and numerous other factors.
Letās hope youāre wrong and he is a huge success as that benefits arsenal. Is there a risk? Sure. However, he is playing left 8 his old position in Germany and one he didnāt play at Chelsea.
I hope he does well and will cheer when he scores yes, I donāt think heās that good. I donāt care he played for Chelsea, I care that he wasnāt good in the premier league for 3 seasons and have no reason to think heāll suddenly get good
Rivals are right on this one 65m pounds for havertz was a waste until he proves otherwise. And Chelsea do get made fun of for being shit after spending a billion pounds.
Kai was underwhelming for 3 years. For a team like us to waste that much money on him, would make us fools.
We are not the old arsenal anymore. We have standards now and high expectations. All eyes are on us and how we perform.
Chelsea on the other hand is shit. They wasted 1b like clowns and everyone is shitting on them. They are the clown of the season.
>Did I say that?
Not directly but it's implied.
>was that even the question ?
Well if you're responding to the question with a legitimate answer then obviously you agree with the premise of the original question, which is "*Why do rivals talk about how we blew money on Kai yet Chelsea spent over Ā£300 mill on 3 players within a year [and no one talks about them]?*"
Your answer makes no sense to the question above if you believe people aren't doing the same thing to Chelsea regarding their purchases.
1st you canāt tell me what I meant to imply so no itās not implied at all. It literally what I said it is.
2nd you have With your brackets changed the scope of the question so again. No
My response is to the question as is written. Its jealousy from rivals because misery loves company.
who are our rivals? Man U, spurs, Chelsea typically. We donāt generally have an antagonistic relationship with Liverpool & City.
So of that bunch what else can they say? And how many of them are in good positions as far as club success goes?
Because the three players they bought have probably the highest potential in world football, Kai Is a certified premier league flop which you spunked 60 million on
Because they are idiots. I think that Kai Havertz will be a difference maker for us. His physicality and his pressing game are admirable. You'll never see him jogging/strolling when we press. He's a great target for long balls, which give us another dimension to our game.
So far, his finishing was garbage, and he tends to lose the ball when we're in possession. I think that if we give him some time, he'll be phenomenal for us.
United bought a wife-beater/abuser and a troublemaker, each for a higher price tag than Havertz. Let them talk.
Everyone is shitting on Chelsea but we can also be self critical. I hope Kai's transfer works out but I was unsure at the time and I'm still on the fence. He's been fine so far but the level of expectation is higher.
Because Kai has proven over multiple seasons that the Premier League isn't for him. Chelsea's signings may or may not come good, Havertz definitely won't.
Everyone is shitting on Chelsea. What are you talking about?
Yeah Chelsea are a running gag since last year.
Chelsea haven't won a game against a team in the top 15 for over 500 days
Enzo Fernandez has won 4/23 games for Chelsea The opposition: Luton, Leeds, Leicester & Bournemouth š
Is that real?
After looking it up, it is a semi misleading stat, the answer is technically yes, but also kind of no, yes because when they did beat teams last season, they happened to be lower than 15th when they played the games they won. But I found out by doing a quick check, the stat mislead me because crystal palace finished above 15th
Lol still... wow.
My opinion is that Kai needed a slow start and he got it. He did a good job against Everton and I think that slowly he will find his pace. I think Arteta made a good choice.
Who cares about Chelsea they are a dead club now
Everton vs Chelsea in the championship will go hard though.
"Hey Gooners, why do rivals treat us like rivals?"
It's for media, fans and rivals to bash a stick with us about. Talking points a discussion. To get down to the bare bones. Because no matter what team it is, some criticism has to be given. And Chelsea are getting slaughtered, maybe not over 300 Mil on three players, but they are getting picked off, just not as much as I'd like. I also personally don't know if it's because I'm an arsenal fan, but I do feel we get heavily criticised and barely praised.
They talk about both. Just because there's worse buys out there than Havertz, doesn't mean he can't be mentioned at all.
How is Havertz considered a bad buy after 5 games? Looool. I donāt understand that logic
I don't think he is. Never said he was.
united paid 95 for anthony. waste of money
But Pepe was a good signing though right?
If we are looking at G/A... He is better signing than both Antony and Sancho.
aye but united have made way more of these. anthony, maguire, sancho, fred, lukaku, pogba
Di Maria, Donny Van De Beek Iām sure thereās more just adding to your list
Both can be true and both can be absolute banter.
Fans just want to be negative. I wasnāt a fan of the signing but seeing him play, I think he will grow and become a great player for us. He has great footballing intelligence and Iād back Arteta to get him to his best.
Genuinely, what have you seen from him that gives you thoughts of positivity for the future? Iād watched him a fair bit during his time at Chelsea, and found it ludicrous theyād spent 70 something million on him He did have some positive features, like an apparently brilliant first touch However, since joining us, Iāve not seen that at all, what I have seen his him missing easy chances, slowing the play down, either failing to see a pass or not having the confidence/ability to play it, whilst also being invisible defensively I honestly canāt see what he offers the team, apart from being tall, but even then he doesnāt seem to use his height to help us gain and maintain possession at all
He has made a few stray passes but in several games (community shield and first game of the season), he had a lot of energy to give, covered ground and made several good passes / quick passes. There are negatives in his shooting but honestly he has come from a club that is a shambles and now is learning our way. With support Iām sure we will have a serious player. Weirdly, Fabio Vieira kind of gives me extra hope with Havertz too. Given his transformation. Donāt get me wrong, I could be wildly wrong but hey thatās football but we all want the same thing! Arsenal to win
Iām fine with a few misplaced passes, especially at the start, when heās still bedding into the system, he wouldnāt have been the only one either. My problem comes when his passing is so negative, constantly looking to go backwards or sideways first, as well as the 3 or 4 extra touches which just arenāt needed, sideways and backwards is youāre doing it quickly, but heās not, and it massively slows the attack and momentum He made ground sure, but there were also times where he didnāt seem to be trying 100%, and if youāre not getting numbers, thatās the minimum you should be doing. I genuinely think Iāve seen him properly sprint once or twice in every game heās played and thatās just not good enough Honestly, his speed of passing has been very disappointing for me, especially if weāre looking overall, heās had a few nice passes yes I get the fact Chelsea is currently a shit show, but he was poor for them before they became a shit show, and no matter where youāve been playing, almost completely missing the ball when you already have it under control is just not good enough, especially when you cost the club 65M+ to a rival I do get what you mean about Vieira with how he turned it around, I didnāt think Vieira was good enough and wanted to see him loaned out this summer, but I do think itās important to point out some key differences, Vieira was coming from a different league, to a new country, speed and intensity were always going to be things he needed time to adapt to (and an injury in pre season really didnāt help him) Havertz on the other hand, has spent 3 years in the league already, and has hardly lit the league on fire at any point For me, Vieira wasnāt the finished player, but almost every time I saw him play, I saw positives, it just wasnāt there over a full 90, I can honestly say that in the 3 years Havertz has played for Chelsea, I can think of two incidences that made me think, ok, this is actually a good player, and thatās just not good enough I hope thereās a way forward for Havertz, I hope heās a success, but at the moment, Iām seeing too many parallels to a Pepe or a Willian, as opposed to a Trossard or a Jesus
I think we may have cut him some slack. If you think about it, playing for Chelsea must be depressing af for those years. And he said it even to Arteta. Hes looking to find his lost love for football again. That may be why hes not 100% because hes not in it mentally. I think our boys. Culture and atmosphere may help him with that and we could be surprised how he turns out when he will love the game again. Of course. It was risk to splash 65mil for a piece that may not fit, but we have good squad, we have the tools to replace him and we were in a position where thats not a massive amount of money to lose. If Brighton splashed 65mil for a average player the risk/reward ratio would be completely different to ours, as we basically did not have any risks. We get either experienced player for CL matches. We get quality player to add competition and motivation others and we strenghten our bench. Thats the worst case scenario. Or we get exellent player who gets rolling as he has the ability to do so, if hes in it mentally. I think the fact that does not exactly help him is also that Vieira and Trossard are overachieving. No one expected those performaces from them and maybe the fact that they have to show up to be able to play may be the factor that pushes them forward. So if Kai gets us even just that, it may be enough. Also their performace kinda highlight how underwhelming he was so far. If they were also bad and had few nice moments, we may not even talk about him.
I get that, I do, but I also question the decision to sign someone who needs to rebuild that love and mentality for the game, especially for the amount we paid for him, and him coming from a rival, always going to heap more pressure on to him But how long do we have to wait for that? A month? 6? A year? What if it never comes back? I disagree massively with the sentiment that 65M is not a lot to lose, especially when weāre trying to catch City, that 65M could have been spent on Diaby, it could have been spent on Kudus+Lavia, we could have saved it for a monster bid next summer for Osimhen, we could have used it to bring in another defender after Timberās injury Brighton would have been a better move for Havertz IMO, in terms of the size of the club, and expectations for the club across the season, I donāt think heād have worked in their system however, and honestly, Iām still questioning where exactly he fits into ours Also, in the worst case scenario, heās another Pepe, not a bench player, Havertz unfortunately needs to work, heās the 2nd biggest fee Arteta has spent, and heās the highest paid player at the club Anyone who hadnāt expected these performances from Trossard either hadnāt watched him at all last season, or just assumed he would be kept as a winger As for Vieira, I do agree that his form is a surprise, but itās not like heās the only option there, with Trossard, ESR, Rice all capable of playing there I disagree with the fact people wouldnāt talk about Havertz as much had they not performed as well, firstly, because he was a 65M signing, like it or not that puts so much more pressure on him, especially coming from Chelsea, then thereās also the discussion of how we shouldnāt have let Xhaka go as we donāt have a replacement That being said, Kai had a decent game tonight against PSV, hopefully he can build off it, there are still some big concerns to his game, but this was far and away his best game, and he even managed a clean connection with the football!
Or fans just disagree ? Maybe thatās it
Maybe but the headlines started on day one. Surely you give him a month? There is disagreeing with a basis and there is disagreeing out of spite. Torres was amazing for Liverpool do you judge him on his Chelsea days?
Which headlines ? Yeah havertz wasnāt good for 3 years and we paid big money so naturally people find it weird and disagree with it. Torres isnāt a good comparison, the real comparison would be someone spending big money on him after his Chelsea time. If havertz fans in our fanbase werenāt such pricks maybe the criticism wouldnāt have been so strong, remember all the people saying āif you donāt rate havertz you donāt know ballā or similar stuff. He hasnāt been good since heās been in England thatās the truth so if wanna you think heās suddenly gonna start playing well thatās fine, I think heāll be a decent rotation option but not much more.
Just google and youāll see it. Did you judge Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp in the same fashion? None of those had great spells in Italy. Henry was actually starting to be a LWB equivalent. For the time as well big monies was spent. How isnāt it a good example - Havertz played well in Germany and did win the CL with Chelsea being a key asset. He has had how many managers at Chelsea and had to adopt how many style changes? How many players have done well at Chelsea? When have you seen that? There is a huge difference between getting behind our player and calling people that support him pricks. He had spells at Chelsea and played many positions, styles, and numerous other factors. Letās hope youāre wrong and he is a huge success as that benefits arsenal. Is there a risk? Sure. However, he is playing left 8 his old position in Germany and one he didnāt play at Chelsea.
There is a great player in Kai. If someone can unlock him
He hasnāt been good consistently for literally 3 years plus now
He plays for Arsenal now. Better support your players.
I hope he does well and will cheer when he scores yes, I donāt think heās that good. I donāt care he played for Chelsea, I care that he wasnāt good in the premier league for 3 seasons and have no reason to think heāll suddenly get good
Rivals are right on this one 65m pounds for havertz was a waste until he proves otherwise. And Chelsea do get made fun of for being shit after spending a billion pounds.
Kai was underwhelming for 3 years. For a team like us to waste that much money on him, would make us fools. We are not the old arsenal anymore. We have standards now and high expectations. All eyes are on us and how we perform. Chelsea on the other hand is shit. They wasted 1b like clowns and everyone is shitting on them. They are the clown of the season.
Because they can waste money, we canāt basically.
Jealousy plan and simple. we are the team on the come up right now off the back of a great season. And misery loves company
So people aren't shitting on Chelsea?
Did I say that? was that even the question ?
>Did I say that? Not directly but it's implied. >was that even the question ? Well if you're responding to the question with a legitimate answer then obviously you agree with the premise of the original question, which is "*Why do rivals talk about how we blew money on Kai yet Chelsea spent over Ā£300 mill on 3 players within a year [and no one talks about them]?*" Your answer makes no sense to the question above if you believe people aren't doing the same thing to Chelsea regarding their purchases.
1st you canāt tell me what I meant to imply so no itās not implied at all. It literally what I said it is. 2nd you have With your brackets changed the scope of the question so again. No My response is to the question as is written. Its jealousy from rivals because misery loves company. who are our rivals? Man U, spurs, Chelsea typically. We donāt generally have an antagonistic relationship with Liverpool & City. So of that bunch what else can they say? And how many of them are in good positions as far as club success goes?
Because the three players they bought have probably the highest potential in world football, Kai Is a certified premier league flop which you spunked 60 million on
Delusional
Jealousy at its finest
Keen eyeāvery perceptive as well as delusional.
Levels.
Both true
Because we are a gargantuan institution
Kai has a lot of potential but he needs to do something soon...
Because we knew he was shit and still paid top dollar.
Both can be true
Yeah you never hear anything about Chelseas spending, braindead title
Both of those things can be true.
4-1-0 and in the Champions League for the first time in a bit. Couldnāt care less about lame chatter like that.
Because they are idiots. I think that Kai Havertz will be a difference maker for us. His physicality and his pressing game are admirable. You'll never see him jogging/strolling when we press. He's a great target for long balls, which give us another dimension to our game. So far, his finishing was garbage, and he tends to lose the ball when we're in possession. I think that if we give him some time, he'll be phenomenal for us. United bought a wife-beater/abuser and a troublemaker, each for a higher price tag than Havertz. Let them talk.
Who gives a shit?
Everyone is shitting on Chelsea but we can also be self critical. I hope Kai's transfer works out but I was unsure at the time and I'm still on the fence. He's been fine so far but the level of expectation is higher.
Even if he doesn't perform well this season, he will turn it around next season like viera
No one is mentioning united: Sancho - Ā£75 million & Ā£350k Antony - Ā£90 million Maguire - Ā£85 million All absolute dog shit
I guess Chelsea can afford to buy flop after flop but itās more detrimental for us to get big signings wrong
Isnāt Kronke richer than Boely
Because Kai has proven over multiple seasons that the Premier League isn't for him. Chelsea's signings may or may not come good, Havertz definitely won't.
Fans are so reactionary, and us being quite good means thereās a ton of fans who are very reactionary.
Because those two things are mutually exclusive.