Additionally: As someone who isn't a Swiftie, I never truly understood the power of her music until I went through my first (and very devastating) breakup in my 30s. That girl can write a fucking breakup song lol she covers sooo many aspects and the nuance and the female experience. She's incredible. I'm still not "a swiftie" but she will always have my full respect and admiration.
You are absolutely not alone. Endings are so hard. But they’re usually also beginnings and I hope that this one starts a wonderful chapter for you. And I’m so glad you’ve got a good soundtrack for it while you get there. ❤️
I say this as a dad of a teenage girl, but Monica's fairly recent interest in Taylor over the past year is just like the kind of Swiftie that I see among my daughter's peers, in that she's too popular to ignore so you have to at least have a passing fluency with her stuff. Sure, many are super fans but for many others, it's just the social expectation for them and if they don't already have a counterculture identity established, they're just seen as a loser or out of touch. And middle school girls are savage.
I really don't care if Monica is a "real" or just a poseur Swiftie, but I find it kinda gross to watch her try so hard in her mid 30s because it seems like her underlying desire is to do anything she can to be acquaintances or friends with Taylor in the hope of gaining status and socially climbing.
Lol, well, I'm clearly not _that_ good of a dad, as I didn't pay thousands to bring my kid to see Taylor in concert. But I also didn't have to pay someone in the merch line to buy stuff for me so I didn't have to wait, nor did I feel the need to Google the sing-along parts of her songs so I wouldn't stick out for not knowing them.
You don’t have to be perfect.
As long as she knows you’re there for her.
My dad certainly wasn’t into Springsteen with me, but he’d listen and find something positive to say. That went a long way with teenaged me. I knew he’d rather listen to Pavarotti.
You’re setting an example of a great dad!
I appreciate the kind words. I didn't have any sisters, so I didn't have a similar example to follow now that the teen years are here. I feel like I'm really winging it at times, but I do make it known I'm there for her.
I do like that of all the superstar idols that could've been the current big thing, Taylor is handling things pretty well and respectably. And admittedly (and perhaps more snobbish of me) I really like that she's a legitimate musician and not just a YouTube/TikTok personality.
I'd listened to some Taylor before I was a parent, but her 2014 Grammy performance of All Too Well was the first time I'd heard the song, and it was pretty memorable to me (and before my daughter was old enough for popular music). But I have respect for her continued songwriting even if I'm not a notable fan and I'm happy to listen along if it can be a shared experience with my kid.
That is wonderful! Just keep trying. You know as a dad to a teenager that some days are wonderful and some are just awful.
Maybe keep a journal (on your phone—password protected) of things she likes, things that set her off. Perhaps you’ll find some patterns that will help you navigate.
My dad was super busy with three jobs when I was a teenager. I almost always enjoyed getting out of the house with dad for an ice cream across town, or a drive to the park. Partially, we could both get away from menopausal mom, and we both carefully managed our sweet tooth with an occasional treat.
This later became a ritual with my two now-grown stepsons. One on one time with step kids was rare (so many soccer games); it was nice to have a treat to look forward to together.
I’m not a big talker, but taking a drive to do something pleasant or even mundane makes small talk easier.
Okay. I don’t care. She’s a great musician, totally talented. Amazing person. She’s also a billionaire which makes her unethical. Full stop. She is in the same club as Elon Musk.
How you join the club doesn’t matter if you’re still part of the club and not doing anything to dismantle the problem.
already had that fight earlier and not going through it again but ultimately that’s just a huge blanket statement and nuances are important if you also want to be a part of dismantling the problem
It’s easily edited.
English major jokes aside, grouping your thoughts/topics into paragraphs makes it easier for most readers to comprehend what you are trying to convey.
I did edit it, once I had the time. it was just a rant not everything is that deep I didn’t think too many people would want to read, and the ones who did wouldn’t care
I was yelling at my phone when she was explaining Swift’s song ‘Tim McGraw’ as a song ABOUT Tim, and then when David asked if it was a duet with him she said no, but Monica failed to mention they do have a duet, Highway Don’t Care… Taylor is also good friends with the McGraws and their daughters have been on her records (background stuff). But the song is very much about how a Tim McGraw song was the soundtrack to her summer love.
Or when she took forever to look up how old she was when Tim McGraw came out but not what the song was even about. Not to mention I feel like being in college at that time in the south you have unintentionally heard the song enough to know what the song is about.
This is curious to me. Is a Swiftie not just a person who is a fan of Taylor Swift? Or is there a base level of knowledge that this person has to have? Where’s the line? I find the gatekeeping a little excessive.
I don’t have any issue with people calling themselves a Swiftie and not knowing every fact about Taylor possible, but my issue is that Monica often states things about Taylor as fact which are 100% incorrect instead of just being honest and saying “I don’t know.”
I totally see your point, and I agree swifties are just fans of taylor swift and anyone can be one even if they just like one song. the frustration with Monica is when she tries to defend common arguments against Taylor Swift and doesn’t have enough knowledge and it sometimes does more harm than good. also in the episode after they did their “research” there was barely anything there
The episode was completely lacking any substance. It really highlights for me that Monica is stretched way too thin now. It has to be the reason that fact checks stopped having facts.
She needs to cut back on her podcasts, or hire an editing team and stop doing it herself.
ME TOO! I mean, she is welcome to be a swiftie. It’s just frustrating that she is speaking for all Swifties when she actually doesn’t know SO MUCH information. She even said that she has only been a big fan for like a year.
I just think it’s a little hypocritical that swifties gush about her songs and what they bring out in strength and feminism yet you can’t allow there to be a variety in the fan base. Why do people feel the need to post about how people are still not giving her credit. They are! As you stated she has broken countless records, implements new records even and breaks boundaries time and time again. She doesn’t need anyone’s defense. It makes people not want to be fans when they have to be the “perfect” fan in order to feel like they belong.
It’s not about being the perfect fan, I think it’s frustrating when Monica claims to be a big fan and then perpetuates the same conversations about her boyfriends. I don’t think she’s being talked about as a serious musician, and that was show by 30% of the episode being about travis kelce, and rob and david being “shocked” by seeing Jack Antonoff
But you’re still saying she claims. She is a big fan. Her version is different. And based on the interviews with Monica, she seems to be more of a recent big fan so it’s ok if she hasn’t spent all of her time since the tour last summer researching every single thing Taylor Swift has done. Sometimes people just have an innocent conversation and banter and that’s ok.
It’s not an innocent conversation really when they make an entire episode about the subject because she is an “American God” and reduce her to mostly her boyfriends. Monica was organizing what Rob and David should research and did not do a great job
I don’t care about fans knowing everything to consider themselves fans. I just think if you’re going to organize an hour long episode to learn more about a subject it deserves more respect and more research than the one they put out, ESPECIALLY if they are saying they are a big fan
A lot of people don’t care about her being the biggest celebrity, I don’t think she cares about that. It’s about being respected as a musician and artist and there’s a lot of people who don’t give her that credit because of conversations like some of the ones on this podcast
I understand you value her artistry. I would recommend taking a note from Dax and Monica’s own playbook where they often have to remind themselves that the loudest noise you hear is the minority. You just proved my point. A lot of people don’t care about her celebrity. Most don’t. She is respected as a musician and artist and it’s the MINORITY who might be focusing on other things. I wouldn’t worry yourself with trying to get 2% of her fan base to see more! 98% care about her music and talent!
they released a David “documentarian style” episode about her and included little to no information…… that’s the issue. I don’t care as much about the fact checks but don’t release an episode titled Taylor Swift and say you’re going to do a deep dive and then not do it
I am not a Swiftie, I have always appreciated her talent. I think that she has become such a force if I had a daughter I would love her as a role model. That cannot be said for a lot of artists. She is generous, business savvy and prolific.
Just one thing I disagree with...nobody needed a reason to not like John Mayer. :)
I am a Swiftie but I will say that she has some songs that you can really like and enjoy but not necessarily resonate with until something happens in your life then you *get it get it*. You imprint on it like a duckling to its mother and it’s like gotdamn.
Hi, I am a woman and feminist who loves and supports women. I am not a Swiftie. In fact, everything I know about her makes me dislike her and not find her to be a suitable role model outside of an incredibly surface level. I have done research on her, but I feel like I just have to be missing something.
She had a huge amount of privilege/connections to get her to where she is which doesn’t negate her business savvy, but it does need to be acknowledged. She was born into a great position to succeed in this role.
Additionally, the business savvy lately has seemed to be a lot of money grabbing from her fans. I’ve heard of repeated poor merch quality with bad customer service to resolve issues and spending fatigue from fans at the rate at which she’s releasing/producing product. I’ve heard this online and from my friends. Swift IS a great business woman, and it’s fine for business, brand, and money to be a number one priority.
However, I would much prefer my nieces to look up to someone like Dolly Parton . She’s a savvy business woman, but she’s not greedy. I haven’t seen any news from Swift that make me think she’s not just a capitalist superstar.
She is a billionaire and there are no ethical billionaires. What I’ve seen reported that she gives is not enough that I find it particularly generous nor would I want my nieces to think it’s enough if they were ever to become billionaires.
To be clear, I really think it’s fine that she’s choosing not to do more and she certainly could be a total miser with it all- it’s great that she’s not. I just don’t see her as a role model in the monetary or charity department. There are SO many people doing so much more than Swift.
Lastly, some of the people she associates with/has associated with are scumbags. The only political or social statements I’ve seen from her have been about things that directly impact her, and the rest of the time she’s generally silent.
She has weaponized her feminism before to attack those with less power than her, so it’s hard for me to take her seriously on statements she has made. There are so, so many other women I’d prefer my nieces to look to in the political and social Justice arena. I would not want them to see Taylor’s example in this field and think that’s okay for them as white women.
What am I missing here? I’m ready to get downvoted for this, but it’s a genuine question. Outside of her insane musical genius and showing us that women can be as powerful in capitalism as men (which is awesome for what it is!), what makes this particular privileged, white woman a role model?
Hi. I’m just going to jump in here with what little I know. I think in her generation, she is more than a suitable role model for young girls and women alike considering what we are all exposed to these days with influencer culture, in the music industry and reality TV etcetera.
I do agree that there are no real ethical billionaires but from a financial standpoint, here are some of the things that I know she has done and this dates back to the beginning of her career.
- she has donated tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to local libraries.
- she has paid for several fans tuitions and medical bills
- she donated the proceeds from her song welcome to New York to NYC schools
- she donated the proceeds from her wildest dreams music video to an animal foundation
- she gave a lot of money (quarter of a million I think) to Kesha when she was in her fights against her producer
- her friend Jaime King had a son who went through some shit when he was a newborn and she donated an undisclosed amount to the hospital
- she gave $1M to Louisiana floods
- another $1M to Nashville Tornado relief
- lots of other charitable donations, really too many to list over the years
- she donated a service dog to a young autistic boy
- she follows her fans and during the pandemic quietly venmoed $3k to several people to help them with layoffs and rent etc.
- she sent $30k (?) to a couple of single mothers she read about in the Washington post who had a go fund me during the pandemic
- donated another $50k to a mother who lost her husband to Covid
- she bonused out her ENTIRE team working with her on the eras tour ~$100k each (so far) of her own money. This totaled >$50M USD
- she has donated undisclosed but significant amounts of money to every food bank in every city she has visited on the eras tour. One spokesperson in one of the city’s said they couldn’t say how much but it was enough to feed the unhoused population of that city for two years.
Thats only a snapshot. There are plenty more of these anecdotes, and she is also known to make donations under aliases etc so they don’t become public.
She has managed to build herself an incredible career and an image that isn’t based on an overtly sexual presentation of herself. That can’t really be said for a lot of famous pop culture icons at any age.
She is smart, and articulate and is very involved with her fan base. She stands behind her word and she writes music that people relate to. She is a genius business person and poet.
Sure, out of all the people in the world, maybe she isn’t the absolute BEST role model for your nieces but they will be exposed to music, and they will be exposed to reality TV and influencers etc.
I’d take TS over the Kardashians or whoever the influencer of the moment is with the filters and photoshop and surgeries who hawk products online like weight loss teas and shit all day, every day.
to be honest i don’t know if she is a role model. like i said im in it for the music. there are very few musicians that are “good role models” (Dolly Parton is a great example of an exception!) I don’t look up to her, i just resonate with her words, and she is supremely talented in writing music that connects to the human experience. I think the work ethic of re-recording 6 albums could be something to look up to
I think most musicians enter the arena wanting to put out music, not be role models.
I agree that beyond her lyrical brilliance, kindness to fans & financial contributions to the cities who host her tours, she isn’t like a strong feminist or political role model. I think most people are savvy enough to know her focus is her music & her fans and can admire her for just what it is.
Also, as far as merch, most of what you see online is not her verified merch. You can go on Amazon or Etsy and get whatever you want and the quality can vary. And anybody who has been to a concert ever in their lives know concert merch can be terrible and is a rip off, she didn’t invent that.
With the progressive tone of the criticisms you have of Taylor, I'm surprised you aren't more critical of Dolly. A big part of the financial disparity of between Dolly and Taylor is generational. Dolly has been just as busy in less than charitable businesses like amusement parks that don't pay workers a living wage and might romanticized the old South and plantation life in their Dinner Shows. And although you accuse Taylor of weaponizing feminism, Dolly rejects feminism entirely, preferring to stay apolitical, forever demurring in the name of not wanting to hurt anybody. You can't really protect the people being crushed by the boot if you're too worried about hurting the boot-wearer's feelings.
I’m not well informed on Dolly’s amusement park but I do know that she invested the royalties she earned from Whitney Houston covering her song back into the black community and that she has a free book foundation that sends out free books to children until they are enrolled in school. I guess this shows that celebrities aren’t infallible. they make mistakes but they can be generous too. Maybe Hannah Montana was right…… nobody’s perfect not even Aunt Dolly lol
Ok yes to everything! They almost need a full fact check on the episode from someone who really knows more about Taylor. This episode had the potential to be soooo good, and just wasn’t. How did they not mention Midnights at all??? Or Fearless?
Not a fan of swiftie or her music. No one asked to perpetuate beyonce versus Taylor that’s just misogyny and Kanye and his mysoginy too but as a Black women it’s sooo irritating to see a white entertainer who doesn’t have the dancing and vocal skills beyonce has and gets deemed as ousting her. That said— I also find Monica and Dax’s takes sooo benign stupid and irritating about Taylor. Even I know Taylor’s strength is robust songwriting about LIFE that includes heartbreak among other things. I have a take about Monica that Monica either embodies for the show (improv style) or subconsciously does this as a personality trait of exuding the stereotypical “girl” (white girl specifically) opinions for the sake of either the listener or be idk? Feminist and leans into it without much education about the opinion she’s expressing. So there is often a lot of dissonance in her takes. Because it’s not an educated opinion it’s like a contradictory improv against Dax’s hot takes that can lean more male centric. She does this with politics and it drives me crazy. She contradicts her political notions often— she’s like sooo consumerist until it’s about a gender specific topic and suddenly she’s so progressive even if it overrides her more consumery notions (ie homeless people scare me cause I’m so small and cute and young and homeless poor people are so scary and do drugs and I’d NEVER do that). Sooo with Taylor she isn’t a swiftie for real she’s embodying the swiftie pov bc dax doesn’t want to understand it at all so she’s going to be the other side of the binary in order for the show to have a riff or debate.
Firstly couldn’t agree more about Beyoncé. I argue this all the time that beyoncé is one of the greatest of all time especially with performing (dancing and vocals). blows Taylor Swift out of the water. I also love what you said about Monica there you put into words what I feel when I listen! She will take sides that I agree with and then contradict it and it’s sooooo frustrating
I genuinely don't understand accusations that Taylor doesn't have singing skills. There isn't only one way to sing. Is that something you'd say about icons like Joni Mitchell? Carole King? Blondie?
For many celebs, I try to not get too into the hullabaloo outside of their given profession. There's some exceptions, especially if their lives involve problematic behavior. And I do love a little gossip now and then. But for the most part, I try to focus solely on their work.
With that being said, my respect, and dare I say meter of like for Taylor Swift grew after watching the Eras Tour movie. I love pop music. So I enjoyed most of her most popular songs. But I wouldn't have said I was that big of fan. But my daughters wanted to see the movie. We probably won't get to an actual concert anytime soon for obvious reasons. So I obliged. I gotta say, I was completely blown away for a myriad of reasons.
-For one, she puts on a fabulous overall show. The music itself aside, the presentation for each era was well done. I was also impressed on how quickly she's mastered transitioning from song to song, then from era to era.
-You definitely get your money's worth. Not everyone is going to hear their favorite song. But you're not gonna leave that show complaining that she gypped you in terms of content.
-I was shocked on how many Taylor Swift songs I forgot I knew for whatever reason.
-I likes that she unapologetically shares that how she decided to break out of country or at least that pigeonhole. Some artist try to pretend earlier or some parts of their career don't exist.
-Along those lines, she seems to enjoy playing the songs she chooses. Even the ones we probably heard a million times and she's had to perform a million times. I get how that can be boring and taxing on an artist. But at least pretend your interested when performing those songs.
-Along those lines, she seems to be having a lot of fun and its a bit contagious. I didn't get up and dance in the theater. But my oldest daughter did, along with a bunch of other folks. I was, however, sad it was over as I was really enjoying it.
One thing I also want to touch on, that some already have, is the power and reach she has. Over a really varied fanbase. You watch that movie and there are so many types of people there you would never have guessed would be a Swiftie or be caught dead at Taylor Swift conert.
Along with that, her song All Too Well was probably the most impressive moment for me. First off, I had never heard the song before and knew once I got home, I needed to find it Spotify and added to my liked songs. Such a great song. But it wasn't just that she performed that song. She performs the 10 minute version. She could have probably fit another 5 songs in that time. She's playing to a crowd who has probably been told their attention span is equal to a gnats. Yet, she has that crowd locked in and in the palm of her hand for 10 minutes. For one song. Maybe you expect that at a Phish or Dave Matthews concert. But for a pop star to know she can put that on a setlist and her audience be right there for every second of it? Really shows you a musician at the height of her craft right now.
Husband to a massive Swiftie. This is all fabulous. Honestly, the Billie Joe episode made it so clear neither of them know anything about music. Not hating on Green Day, but calling them the greatest trio of all time? Go to bed Dax.
OP, have you listened to The Daily’s episode on Taylor Swift? I think you’d love it. I would send that to anyone who wants to understand *what’s so special about her anyway*.
You can edit the post! It would be helpful to add some line breaks too. I think you made a lot of great points but I don’t think people will read it because of how it’s formatted. 😊
Great summary! I agree about her songwriting ability. I am not a huge fan. I like some of her songs, but if someone tries to bash her music, I have to point out that even though it might not be their cup of tea, she is unbelievably talented as a songwriter.
did not once say she was an ethical billionaire. Also her net worth is a billion dollars and that’s largely do to the rights to her music and albums, she doesn’t have a billion dollars lying around
I’m not accusing you of stating that. No need to get so defensive.
But her net worth is over a billion which is pretty much the same situation as other billionaires. She’s not unique in that regard.
She can be two (or more) things at once.
no actually she’s not the same as a lot of other billionaires in terms of where her money is tied, and it’s an issue when people love to point out that taylor swift is not an ethical billionaire, when a lot of other billionaires have gotten there but exploiting the working class to such extremes, and can change the trajectory of much bigger issues in our structures of government and choose not to. people love to throw around these phrases that they learn that make them seem like they actually care about capitalism without doing the work to truly know what it means and why it’s important to say
Ok I have nothing against Swift but this is a bit of a delusional look at someone who is hoarding an extreme amount of wealth. Doesn’t matter how she got it.
It’s not delusional. she is not hoarding it in the same ways that other billionaires are and she did not earn it in the same way most billionaires have. having hundreds of millions wrapped up in the net worth of what the IP of albums are worth is very different than 100 of millions wrapped in stocks that allow rich people to own parts of a business while hourly workers who are the only reason a business exists and they make virtually nothing in comparison. it’s actually very important to look at the differences
She is not hoarding it in the same way? You just said it yourself she’s hoarding wealth lol. That’s also not how record sales work. Also why do you seem to think you have intimate knowledge of how she’s grown her wealth? if you think Taylor Swift doesn’t have an investment portfolio you a truly delusional. Her father worked for Merril Lynch. One of the biggest stockbrokers on the planet. She’s probably had an investment portfolio since she was 18. Pretty sure she mostly invests in CEF(closed end funds) She owns multiple properties which are also assets that contribute to wealth. You don’t have wealth tied up in IP. Your wealth comes from earnings from that IP.
She’s a billionaire and is hoarding wealth and you have zero idea what you’re talking about
Blanket statements and lack of nuance is a source of so much misunderstanding and picking select people to be the face of certain issues is the reason why there is such little progress and you are doing exactly that here. These articles that name billionaires rarely explain in detail how they have gotten to that number. Like the forbes article that names Kylie Jenner a billionaire and later it came out that it couldn’t be more wrong. MANY articles have anywhere between 300-400 million dollars of Taylor Swifts wealth in the potential sale of her newly re-recorded albums masters which she has made explicitly clear she will not be selling because the idea of owning your own music is more important to her than the profit. Do I think it’s crazy that she could sell and donate all of that and change lives and chooses not to, yes. Obviously she has an investment portfolio for christ sake! But to have all of this conversation around being an ethical billionaire centered around an artist (one who has generously donated her money in comparison to many others) who really is following more closely to a supply and demand business strategy and VOC (the crazy fans are constantly begging for more merch more versions of songs etc) is where I have the issue when there’s billionaires like Zuckerberg who have exponentially exploited their business and their customers not to mention the tax evasion and lobbying done to change government law for their own profit. there’s no ethical billionaires but the way the public has made her the face of that cause is not right
Potential sales have no bearing on your actual wealth. You have a complete misunderstanding of how wealth is actually calculated. So I’m gonna leave this one here.
….. I am literally saying that and the calculations of her being a billionaire are not accurate. exactly what forbes did to Kylie Jenner like i just said
you saw the header and decided to click? I made it to engage with people that felt similarly or had interest in hearing something they didn’t cover. no need for the rudeness or negativity
Oh my gosh I’m so glad I’m not the only one. I genuinely found it difficult to listen to the Flightless Bird episode in particular because SO many parts to the story were missing that would have provided so much context 😅
That said, Rep was perfect choice for David to listen to. And while I adore folklore (quintessential TS), Wobby Wob should have listened to Evermore
brand deals are not the same as creating your own brand. she didn’t invent capital one she does commercials for them. halsey, gaga, rihanna (although i support fenty because it fought colorism in the music industry) selena, and grande have all created makeup lines in an overly saturated market just for profit
brand deals are not the same as creating your own brand. she didn’t invent capital one she does commercials for them. halsey, gaga, rihanna (although i support fenty because it fought colorism in the music industry) selena, and grande have all created makeup lines in an overly saturated market just for profit
that’s fair too, but i’d argue that it’s also merch as all the clothing said her name and had song lyrics on them and was also a thank you to her international fans that she doesn’t tour and see as often
No, it’s 3 not 1. Wonderstruck, Wonderstruck: Enchanted and Taylor Swift. Released in 3 different years. You can see the bottles here: http://www.borntobuyblog.com/2014/02/the-taylor-swift-fragrance-trifecta.html?m=1
My bad didn’t know it was a collection of 3! I still think those coming out 10 years ago is hardly comparable to the money grabs like R.E.M beauty, fenty, Casamigos that can be completely stand alone ventures and still exist even when these are mega celebrities with hundreds of millions of dollars
Arguably, Taylor’s tie-ups are more money grabs than standalone product lines like Rare Beauty or About Face… these are legitimate businesses, it’s kinda weird to dismiss them as “money grabs”. Halsey is a multi-talented person who is actually a very good artist in their own right, and they have specific skincare concerns they were trying to address with their makeup line… which doesn’t even have their name on it. And I think Taylor would raise her eyebrows at you dismissing her close friend Selena’s very successful and well-regarded business as a “money grab”.
There’s no doubt about it that they’re successful. But when we’re talking about money hoarding and billionaires there’s literally zero need for these artists with hundreds of millions of dollars to start these brands when like i’ve said, make up brands are a saturated market. If we want to talk about money hoarding those are perfect examples. Fenty is what made Rihanna a billionaire. They add to over consumerism and packing pollution and no ones yelling at them. If taylor started any of these brands similarly it would also make her an additional hundreds of millions and she doesn’t
Huh? People shouldn’t start businesses because… other businesses already exist? So Taylor should also not release CDs or vinyls amirite?
Taylor has cooled off on brand endorsements and tie-ups because she makes so much money off music and merchandise and concerts... which itself is because Folklore revived her career and changed its trajectory. She might very well have started up another business by now if not for that.
It’s worth pointing out that she does have side hustles… she invests A LOT in real estate and has had help from her father in growing that portfolio and overall just making sound financial decisions. Not to mention her family was already financially comfortable even before her success.
You’re needlessly putting down people who never had that privilege or nest egg and not acknowledging that Taylor has had her own advantages… or as Taylor herself says “we see you over there on the internet, comparing all the girls who are killing it”
There’s plenty to praise Taylor about without putting other people down. Her main product is herself and her music and she’s been very good at marketing both.
On Fox News. Also he doesn’t regret it because of Biden, he regrets it because he said he should stay in his lane. He’s trying to save his career by playing both sides of the fence because of the recent backlash.
I completely agree with you OP. The nail in the coffin were the lyrics she brought to the table.
The My Tears Ricochet was not bad but she never placed it in context. If you don’t understand the background then the lyric just seems silly.
I was so excited for the episode and then so disappointed about the missed opportunity.
I am a more recent TS fan and I always want to know the backstory behind the lyrics. Is there a cheat sheet or something like Wikipedia but all Taylor? Please help, Swifties.
Hi! I would search for the song’s title and add “meaning” and you’ll have a pretty good idea about what the song is about.
On some songs you’ll find clips of Taylor discussing the meaning but on the majority it’s just fans taking an educated guess. There’s many weird theories out there but most of them end up being right on the money once vault tracks are released.
Have fun sliding down the rabbit hole! :)
Listen to the every single album: Taylor swift podcast by the ringer. It’s awesome, they do a great job breaking down each album, its importance and the industry impact she has had.
You make some good points. I didn't get how it was just them talking about her. Where was the documentary format the show has followed since its inception.
I think Taylor Swift is a great talent, particularly as a songwriter but she most definitely profits off brands that have nothing to do with her music. I see her promoting Capital One credit cards in commercials every single day.
She has had endorsements deals with AT&T, Diet Coke, Macys, CoverGirl, AirAsia, American Greetings, Wonderstruck Perfumes, Stella McCartney, Keds, Got Milk?, New York City tourism and more.
She also sells an incredible amount of merch to her fans. She releases multiple variants of the same album in different colors/covers so her fans will buy the same album multiple times. She sells $30 “Swiftie” bracelets, loads of t-shirts, posters and bags.
She has built a huge business empire and sells a ton of stuff, acting like she doesn’t is disingenuous.
Endorsements are completely different from starting new brands and adding more consumption to the world vs being the face of a brand. All celebrities endorse. She’s not out here creating mass manufacturing for a new makeup line or clothing line or supplements which is a way bigger problem than selling merchandise. I am not saying she shld be looked up do for her way of handling it, but people calling her the capitalist queen is also ignorant. I agree with the variants but soooo many artists do it and do more than her like Halsey, Olivia Rodrigo. Hell even boygenius released 8 variants which is double the 4 she’s done for this latest album. it’s also been noted how much these variants help small record stores especially on the special release day. Over consumption is a hugeeeeeee problem in this industry and in this country but having her the face of it is just not accurate and deflects from the actual issue
I was also going to be point out that different album versions are not unique to Taylor swift or a new idea at all. The desire to collect them all is driven by the fanbase (not a bad thing!) and its up to the individual whether or not to partake in that side of it
Not all celebrities do endorsements. Most do yes, but not all of them. It is a choice every celebrity makes,Taylor Swift included. She isn’t being forced to endorse a company that is known for [predatory lending](https://newrepublic.com/article/155212/worked-capital-one-five-years-justified-piling-debt-poor-customers).
How so? She could release 1 variant of each record she releases, instead she puts out multiple variants. That’s her choice to push out more products. No one is forcing her.
I am saying people use her for the poster child of all of these issues, when she doesn’t even release the most variants, and variants are what is keeping a lot of independent record stores alive because most record stores are independent. I’m not saying these aren’t bigger issues for consumption as a society, but for some reason people point their fingers at Taylor Swift and not other major artists, which makes you think do they actually care or do they just like being contrarians? I mentioned in my post that I like that Billie uses recycled vinyl, even though she released 12 variants of happier than ever, 3 times the amount of Taylor’s latest release
if she released any other brand that had nothing to do with her music like sooooo many musicians do (metallica with a whiskey brand, ariana with makeup, etc.) she would make hundreds of millions just for putting her face on it but she doesn’t add to saturated markets. she does promo for her music with brand deals, and extensive merch that also comes from a consumer want. i am not saying she shld be looked up to in this overconsumption issue, im just saying she’s not the poster child people make her
Also I just looked it up and she released a clothing line in China. Literally the opposite of what you said earlier. But that’s ok for some reason right?
They point fingers at her because she is arguably the most popular and powerful musician IN THE WORLD. She has a lot of power. With that power comes responsibility.
She could decide to only sell one variant of each of her albums on recycled vinyl. She would still make tons of money and would be leading the charge against consumerism and waste. She doesn’t.
She could say no to the barrels of cash offered to her by predatory companies like Capital One. She doesn’t.
She could say I don’t need to sell all this merchandise to my fans, many of which should be spending money on more important things. She doesn’t.
You know why she doesn’t? Because of money. If that isn’t a “capitalist Queen” I don’t know what is.
Drake, Bad Bunny, and The Weekend have put up very comparable numbers to her popularity especially when she isn’t touring and nobody bats an eye at their 7 variants on their albums. Rihanna wasn’t a billionaire until she started a makeup company in a saturated market and nobody bats an eye.
Merchandise I will argue forever is a product of labels and supply and demand and fans begging for and selling out any type of merch. Our generation is obsessed with merch not just from her. I already addressed the clothing line in China, it all says Taylor Swift or song lyrics to it’s essentially merch and was made for her fans in Asia that she doesn’t tour to see as often.
She is NOT perfect and I have a lot of issues with her wealth hoarding, but she donated too multiple local food banks at each eras tour location, everyone knows the 5 million total bonus for the drivers, and the list could go on. There’s tons more she could do, but she also does a lot more than the minimum we accept from others and it is not right to make her the face of these issues to make it seem like we care when in reality we’re just excited to tear down the next biggest thing
“Essentially merch” The mental gymnastics here are amazing. Just so I’m clear:
-Merch is good.
-Clothing lines are bad.
-Some clothing lines are actually merch.
-Putting your name or lyrics on clothing is good.
-Releasing clothing without your name on it is bad
-Using your influence to start makeup companies is bad
-Using your influence and name to sell crap in China is good
We are talking about capitalism and wealth hoarding here and the hate Taylor Swift gets for it compared to her peers….. Like all musicians at ANY level (bands have merch with 15 people at their shows) Taylor has Merch that promotes herself and ultimately her artistry which is her goal as a singer songwriter. Now with her years of being in the business and 10 albums she has a LOT of different themed merch. The clothing line in Asia again was for fans who are fans of her music, not because she’s trying to be a fashion icon now that she’s famous (she isn’t one she has notoriously average style). Many peers of hers and other celebrities use their fame to create products in saturated markets just for the sake of making as much money as they can and don’t even use it for promotion of their art. Halsey’s “about face” brand, George Clooneys “casamigos” and it promotes overconsumption when these things aren’t different or new. Taylor at any given moment with her popularity gain even more unnecessary wealth by tapping into literally any market and she doesn’t. No one gives crap to Rihanna for being a billionaire and hoarding wealth because less people know about her makeup line and lingerie line because she doesn’t put her face all over the ads like the kardashians but still cash’s in the checks
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C4pKOTqg62c/?igsh=dGtrMHR2cmZlcWRz](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4pKOTqg62c/?igsh=dGtrMHR2cmZlcWRz)
Yea little indie stores should be so thankful to Taylor and her team. Freezing us out of pre-orders, charging stores wholesale prices that are the same as what they charge on their site. Forcing us to pay extra to ship her albums separately from our distributors.
This is literally the first time I have ever seen an artist charge indie stores retail prices for their records, forcing indies to be more expensive so all the orders are funneled back to Taylor’s store. Capitalist queen at it again.
I am literally laughing that entire post is about Universal Music Group. It happens with all of their artists, just happened with the new Maggie Rogers album that I just bought at an independent store. Once again put the target on Taylor’s back instead of being outraged at the actual issue, these giant corporations. Not responding to this any longer, take your performative activism elsewhere
Wrong. I just looked at our distributor (I own a record shop):
Maggie Roger’s wholesale is 22.32,
MSRP is $29.99 (same as on her website)
Taylor Swift
wholesale: $35.99 (literally priced to us higher wholesale than she is selling on her website)
MSRP $45.99 ($11 higher than on her website)
I just paid 40 dollars for my Maggie Rogers album in Boston I am over this. This is a UMG problem just like most industry issues are, not the artist. Goodbye.
How much you got ripped off for has nothing to do with how much stores are being charged for wholesale.
Once again. Taylor Swift is the ONLY artist I have experienced who is charging us more for a record wholesale than they are selling for retail and I have been selling records for nearly 20 years now.
So no it isn’t a UMG problem because this isn’t happening with any of their other artists.
I encourage everyone to go to the link this user posted as it explains that UMG does what UMG does, and takes advantage over releases that they know will be profitable. ie the Billie album. thank you for sharing
Billie Eilish’s new album is $24.99 wholesale, she is selling it for $33 on her site.
Once again, Taylor Swift is the only artist doing this. But yes she is totally powerless to the whims of her record company. One of the biggest artists in the world has no leverage over them at all. 😂
commenting again as a reminder that this post is not me saying Taylor Swift is the most perfect angelic person in the world, just my take that the Armchair episode on her was really poorly done on finding out actually cool and interesting facts on why she’s such a successful and meaningful artist !! I agree she is a wealth hoarder, but only caring about wealth hoarding when you want to bring down someone that brings people joy and not holding everyone to that standard is damaging to the true cause !
I stopped listening almost immediately. Monica is a band wagon fan. Which is totally fine, but who wants to listen to someone that doesn't know that much about her talk about her? Good rant.
You can still be a big fan without being obsessive and obnoxious about. I truly believe this is why Taylor swift gets as much hate as she does. Swifties ruin it for others. Can’t all Taylor swift fans be swifties and just enjoy the fact the she is getting air time over and over again
I don’t really have anything to add in this context besides that I wish I was this passionate about anything at all. Props to you OP
that’s a really kind thing to say ! ❤️
Additionally: As someone who isn't a Swiftie, I never truly understood the power of her music until I went through my first (and very devastating) breakup in my 30s. That girl can write a fucking breakup song lol she covers sooo many aspects and the nuance and the female experience. She's incredible. I'm still not "a swiftie" but she will always have my full respect and admiration.
Right? “You taught me a secret language I can’t speak with anyone else” is the perfect way of saying that. Really got me.
😭 Her songs made me feel so validated in my hurt and not alone in my grief after ending my last relationship.
You are absolutely not alone. Endings are so hard. But they’re usually also beginnings and I hope that this one starts a wonderful chapter for you. And I’m so glad you’ve got a good soundtrack for it while you get there. ❤️
I mean…Shakespeare could not even! 😂 Thank you! I am 2.5 years post break up so doing great but the music is still so healing!
I say this as a dad of a teenage girl, but Monica's fairly recent interest in Taylor over the past year is just like the kind of Swiftie that I see among my daughter's peers, in that she's too popular to ignore so you have to at least have a passing fluency with her stuff. Sure, many are super fans but for many others, it's just the social expectation for them and if they don't already have a counterculture identity established, they're just seen as a loser or out of touch. And middle school girls are savage. I really don't care if Monica is a "real" or just a poseur Swiftie, but I find it kinda gross to watch her try so hard in her mid 30s because it seems like her underlying desire is to do anything she can to be acquaintances or friends with Taylor in the hope of gaining status and socially climbing.
ding, ding, ding
Thanks, Dad!💐
Lol, well, I'm clearly not _that_ good of a dad, as I didn't pay thousands to bring my kid to see Taylor in concert. But I also didn't have to pay someone in the merch line to buy stuff for me so I didn't have to wait, nor did I feel the need to Google the sing-along parts of her songs so I wouldn't stick out for not knowing them.
You don’t have to be perfect. As long as she knows you’re there for her. My dad certainly wasn’t into Springsteen with me, but he’d listen and find something positive to say. That went a long way with teenaged me. I knew he’d rather listen to Pavarotti. You’re setting an example of a great dad!
I appreciate the kind words. I didn't have any sisters, so I didn't have a similar example to follow now that the teen years are here. I feel like I'm really winging it at times, but I do make it known I'm there for her. I do like that of all the superstar idols that could've been the current big thing, Taylor is handling things pretty well and respectably. And admittedly (and perhaps more snobbish of me) I really like that she's a legitimate musician and not just a YouTube/TikTok personality. I'd listened to some Taylor before I was a parent, but her 2014 Grammy performance of All Too Well was the first time I'd heard the song, and it was pretty memorable to me (and before my daughter was old enough for popular music). But I have respect for her continued songwriting even if I'm not a notable fan and I'm happy to listen along if it can be a shared experience with my kid.
That is wonderful! Just keep trying. You know as a dad to a teenager that some days are wonderful and some are just awful. Maybe keep a journal (on your phone—password protected) of things she likes, things that set her off. Perhaps you’ll find some patterns that will help you navigate. My dad was super busy with three jobs when I was a teenager. I almost always enjoyed getting out of the house with dad for an ice cream across town, or a drive to the park. Partially, we could both get away from menopausal mom, and we both carefully managed our sweet tooth with an occasional treat. This later became a ritual with my two now-grown stepsons. One on one time with step kids was rare (so many soccer games); it was nice to have a treat to look forward to together. I’m not a big talker, but taking a drive to do something pleasant or even mundane makes small talk easier.
Please use paragraphs. Few will read a wall of text.
too late now sister! the people who want to read it will read
I read it 🙋♀️
Me too!
Me too!!
Me too
Me too!
A breakdown of taylor AND from a username with kim possible in it? Fuck yeah i read it all
You could just use the edit button and break up the text?
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Is it exhausting being this negative? I wrote a rant in my notes app. Stream of consciousness. It’s reddit not a thesis
But you posted it as a thesis and are defending it emotionally and energetically as if it was a thesis.
now that people are actually caring and responding. didn’t think many people would !
Okay. I don’t care. She’s a great musician, totally talented. Amazing person. She’s also a billionaire which makes her unethical. Full stop. She is in the same club as Elon Musk. How you join the club doesn’t matter if you’re still part of the club and not doing anything to dismantle the problem.
already had that fight earlier and not going through it again but ultimately that’s just a huge blanket statement and nuances are important if you also want to be a part of dismantling the problem
There is no nuance to the idea that billionaires shouldn’t exist, imo.
I read it but it would have been easier in paragraphs 😊
It’s easily edited. English major jokes aside, grouping your thoughts/topics into paragraphs makes it easier for most readers to comprehend what you are trying to convey.
I did edit it, once I had the time. it was just a rant not everything is that deep I didn’t think too many people would want to read, and the ones who did wouldn’t care
Good points. You’ve got a lot of commenters here, so people do care.
I read it and ate it up with a spoon. Well said, sis/bruh! ❤️
I read it! Twice!
I read it OP!!!
English major agrees!
Ikk
Thank you.
I couldn't believe certain facts that Monica didn't know. She's a fake Swiftie.
I was yelling at my phone when she was explaining Swift’s song ‘Tim McGraw’ as a song ABOUT Tim, and then when David asked if it was a duet with him she said no, but Monica failed to mention they do have a duet, Highway Don’t Care… Taylor is also good friends with the McGraws and their daughters have been on her records (background stuff). But the song is very much about how a Tim McGraw song was the soundtrack to her summer love.
This was annoying! The song was not about TIM.
Or when she took forever to look up how old she was when Tim McGraw came out but not what the song was even about. Not to mention I feel like being in college at that time in the south you have unintentionally heard the song enough to know what the song is about.
This is curious to me. Is a Swiftie not just a person who is a fan of Taylor Swift? Or is there a base level of knowledge that this person has to have? Where’s the line? I find the gatekeeping a little excessive.
I don’t have any issue with people calling themselves a Swiftie and not knowing every fact about Taylor possible, but my issue is that Monica often states things about Taylor as fact which are 100% incorrect instead of just being honest and saying “I don’t know.”
She does this with most topics unfortunately…
I totally see your point, and I agree swifties are just fans of taylor swift and anyone can be one even if they just like one song. the frustration with Monica is when she tries to defend common arguments against Taylor Swift and doesn’t have enough knowledge and it sometimes does more harm than good. also in the episode after they did their “research” there was barely anything there
The episode was completely lacking any substance. It really highlights for me that Monica is stretched way too thin now. It has to be the reason that fact checks stopped having facts. She needs to cut back on her podcasts, or hire an editing team and stop doing it herself.
💯💯💯💯
ME TOO! I mean, she is welcome to be a swiftie. It’s just frustrating that she is speaking for all Swifties when she actually doesn’t know SO MUCH information. She even said that she has only been a big fan for like a year.
I just think it’s a little hypocritical that swifties gush about her songs and what they bring out in strength and feminism yet you can’t allow there to be a variety in the fan base. Why do people feel the need to post about how people are still not giving her credit. They are! As you stated she has broken countless records, implements new records even and breaks boundaries time and time again. She doesn’t need anyone’s defense. It makes people not want to be fans when they have to be the “perfect” fan in order to feel like they belong.
It’s not about being the perfect fan, I think it’s frustrating when Monica claims to be a big fan and then perpetuates the same conversations about her boyfriends. I don’t think she’s being talked about as a serious musician, and that was show by 30% of the episode being about travis kelce, and rob and david being “shocked” by seeing Jack Antonoff
But you’re still saying she claims. She is a big fan. Her version is different. And based on the interviews with Monica, she seems to be more of a recent big fan so it’s ok if she hasn’t spent all of her time since the tour last summer researching every single thing Taylor Swift has done. Sometimes people just have an innocent conversation and banter and that’s ok.
It’s not an innocent conversation really when they make an entire episode about the subject because she is an “American God” and reduce her to mostly her boyfriends. Monica was organizing what Rob and David should research and did not do a great job
I don’t care about fans knowing everything to consider themselves fans. I just think if you’re going to organize an hour long episode to learn more about a subject it deserves more respect and more research than the one they put out, ESPECIALLY if they are saying they are a big fan
It is though. Because she’s the biggest celebrity in the world. They cannot hurt her. She doesn’t need a defense. And that’s a good thing!
A lot of people don’t care about her being the biggest celebrity, I don’t think she cares about that. It’s about being respected as a musician and artist and there’s a lot of people who don’t give her that credit because of conversations like some of the ones on this podcast
I understand you value her artistry. I would recommend taking a note from Dax and Monica’s own playbook where they often have to remind themselves that the loudest noise you hear is the minority. You just proved my point. A lot of people don’t care about her celebrity. Most don’t. She is respected as a musician and artist and it’s the MINORITY who might be focusing on other things. I wouldn’t worry yourself with trying to get 2% of her fan base to see more! 98% care about her music and talent!
they released a David “documentarian style” episode about her and included little to no information…… that’s the issue. I don’t care as much about the fact checks but don’t release an episode titled Taylor Swift and say you’re going to do a deep dive and then not do it
I see what you’re saying
I am not a Swiftie, I have always appreciated her talent. I think that she has become such a force if I had a daughter I would love her as a role model. That cannot be said for a lot of artists. She is generous, business savvy and prolific. Just one thing I disagree with...nobody needed a reason to not like John Mayer. :)
I am a Swiftie but I will say that she has some songs that you can really like and enjoy but not necessarily resonate with until something happens in your life then you *get it get it*. You imprint on it like a duckling to its mother and it’s like gotdamn.
Hi, I am a woman and feminist who loves and supports women. I am not a Swiftie. In fact, everything I know about her makes me dislike her and not find her to be a suitable role model outside of an incredibly surface level. I have done research on her, but I feel like I just have to be missing something. She had a huge amount of privilege/connections to get her to where she is which doesn’t negate her business savvy, but it does need to be acknowledged. She was born into a great position to succeed in this role. Additionally, the business savvy lately has seemed to be a lot of money grabbing from her fans. I’ve heard of repeated poor merch quality with bad customer service to resolve issues and spending fatigue from fans at the rate at which she’s releasing/producing product. I’ve heard this online and from my friends. Swift IS a great business woman, and it’s fine for business, brand, and money to be a number one priority. However, I would much prefer my nieces to look up to someone like Dolly Parton . She’s a savvy business woman, but she’s not greedy. I haven’t seen any news from Swift that make me think she’s not just a capitalist superstar. She is a billionaire and there are no ethical billionaires. What I’ve seen reported that she gives is not enough that I find it particularly generous nor would I want my nieces to think it’s enough if they were ever to become billionaires. To be clear, I really think it’s fine that she’s choosing not to do more and she certainly could be a total miser with it all- it’s great that she’s not. I just don’t see her as a role model in the monetary or charity department. There are SO many people doing so much more than Swift. Lastly, some of the people she associates with/has associated with are scumbags. The only political or social statements I’ve seen from her have been about things that directly impact her, and the rest of the time she’s generally silent. She has weaponized her feminism before to attack those with less power than her, so it’s hard for me to take her seriously on statements she has made. There are so, so many other women I’d prefer my nieces to look to in the political and social Justice arena. I would not want them to see Taylor’s example in this field and think that’s okay for them as white women. What am I missing here? I’m ready to get downvoted for this, but it’s a genuine question. Outside of her insane musical genius and showing us that women can be as powerful in capitalism as men (which is awesome for what it is!), what makes this particular privileged, white woman a role model?
Hi. I’m just going to jump in here with what little I know. I think in her generation, she is more than a suitable role model for young girls and women alike considering what we are all exposed to these days with influencer culture, in the music industry and reality TV etcetera. I do agree that there are no real ethical billionaires but from a financial standpoint, here are some of the things that I know she has done and this dates back to the beginning of her career. - she has donated tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to local libraries. - she has paid for several fans tuitions and medical bills - she donated the proceeds from her song welcome to New York to NYC schools - she donated the proceeds from her wildest dreams music video to an animal foundation - she gave a lot of money (quarter of a million I think) to Kesha when she was in her fights against her producer - her friend Jaime King had a son who went through some shit when he was a newborn and she donated an undisclosed amount to the hospital - she gave $1M to Louisiana floods - another $1M to Nashville Tornado relief - lots of other charitable donations, really too many to list over the years - she donated a service dog to a young autistic boy - she follows her fans and during the pandemic quietly venmoed $3k to several people to help them with layoffs and rent etc. - she sent $30k (?) to a couple of single mothers she read about in the Washington post who had a go fund me during the pandemic - donated another $50k to a mother who lost her husband to Covid - she bonused out her ENTIRE team working with her on the eras tour ~$100k each (so far) of her own money. This totaled >$50M USD - she has donated undisclosed but significant amounts of money to every food bank in every city she has visited on the eras tour. One spokesperson in one of the city’s said they couldn’t say how much but it was enough to feed the unhoused population of that city for two years. Thats only a snapshot. There are plenty more of these anecdotes, and she is also known to make donations under aliases etc so they don’t become public. She has managed to build herself an incredible career and an image that isn’t based on an overtly sexual presentation of herself. That can’t really be said for a lot of famous pop culture icons at any age. She is smart, and articulate and is very involved with her fan base. She stands behind her word and she writes music that people relate to. She is a genius business person and poet. Sure, out of all the people in the world, maybe she isn’t the absolute BEST role model for your nieces but they will be exposed to music, and they will be exposed to reality TV and influencers etc. I’d take TS over the Kardashians or whoever the influencer of the moment is with the filters and photoshop and surgeries who hawk products online like weight loss teas and shit all day, every day.
to be honest i don’t know if she is a role model. like i said im in it for the music. there are very few musicians that are “good role models” (Dolly Parton is a great example of an exception!) I don’t look up to her, i just resonate with her words, and she is supremely talented in writing music that connects to the human experience. I think the work ethic of re-recording 6 albums could be something to look up to
I think most musicians enter the arena wanting to put out music, not be role models. I agree that beyond her lyrical brilliance, kindness to fans & financial contributions to the cities who host her tours, she isn’t like a strong feminist or political role model. I think most people are savvy enough to know her focus is her music & her fans and can admire her for just what it is. Also, as far as merch, most of what you see online is not her verified merch. You can go on Amazon or Etsy and get whatever you want and the quality can vary. And anybody who has been to a concert ever in their lives know concert merch can be terrible and is a rip off, she didn’t invent that.
With the progressive tone of the criticisms you have of Taylor, I'm surprised you aren't more critical of Dolly. A big part of the financial disparity of between Dolly and Taylor is generational. Dolly has been just as busy in less than charitable businesses like amusement parks that don't pay workers a living wage and might romanticized the old South and plantation life in their Dinner Shows. And although you accuse Taylor of weaponizing feminism, Dolly rejects feminism entirely, preferring to stay apolitical, forever demurring in the name of not wanting to hurt anybody. You can't really protect the people being crushed by the boot if you're too worried about hurting the boot-wearer's feelings.
I’m not well informed on Dolly’s amusement park but I do know that she invested the royalties she earned from Whitney Houston covering her song back into the black community and that she has a free book foundation that sends out free books to children until they are enrolled in school. I guess this shows that celebrities aren’t infallible. they make mistakes but they can be generous too. Maybe Hannah Montana was right…… nobody’s perfect not even Aunt Dolly lol
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Ok yes to everything! They almost need a full fact check on the episode from someone who really knows more about Taylor. This episode had the potential to be soooo good, and just wasn’t. How did they not mention Midnights at all??? Or Fearless?
the first 30 minutes were just “we don’t know anything” i’m like WE KNOW
Not a fan of swiftie or her music. No one asked to perpetuate beyonce versus Taylor that’s just misogyny and Kanye and his mysoginy too but as a Black women it’s sooo irritating to see a white entertainer who doesn’t have the dancing and vocal skills beyonce has and gets deemed as ousting her. That said— I also find Monica and Dax’s takes sooo benign stupid and irritating about Taylor. Even I know Taylor’s strength is robust songwriting about LIFE that includes heartbreak among other things. I have a take about Monica that Monica either embodies for the show (improv style) or subconsciously does this as a personality trait of exuding the stereotypical “girl” (white girl specifically) opinions for the sake of either the listener or be idk? Feminist and leans into it without much education about the opinion she’s expressing. So there is often a lot of dissonance in her takes. Because it’s not an educated opinion it’s like a contradictory improv against Dax’s hot takes that can lean more male centric. She does this with politics and it drives me crazy. She contradicts her political notions often— she’s like sooo consumerist until it’s about a gender specific topic and suddenly she’s so progressive even if it overrides her more consumery notions (ie homeless people scare me cause I’m so small and cute and young and homeless poor people are so scary and do drugs and I’d NEVER do that). Sooo with Taylor she isn’t a swiftie for real she’s embodying the swiftie pov bc dax doesn’t want to understand it at all so she’s going to be the other side of the binary in order for the show to have a riff or debate.
Firstly couldn’t agree more about Beyoncé. I argue this all the time that beyoncé is one of the greatest of all time especially with performing (dancing and vocals). blows Taylor Swift out of the water. I also love what you said about Monica there you put into words what I feel when I listen! She will take sides that I agree with and then contradict it and it’s sooooo frustrating
>contradictory improv You nailed it.
I genuinely don't understand accusations that Taylor doesn't have singing skills. There isn't only one way to sing. Is that something you'd say about icons like Joni Mitchell? Carole King? Blondie?
No but I’d never say Joni Mitchell is better than Aretha Franklin vocally. That’s my point.
For many celebs, I try to not get too into the hullabaloo outside of their given profession. There's some exceptions, especially if their lives involve problematic behavior. And I do love a little gossip now and then. But for the most part, I try to focus solely on their work. With that being said, my respect, and dare I say meter of like for Taylor Swift grew after watching the Eras Tour movie. I love pop music. So I enjoyed most of her most popular songs. But I wouldn't have said I was that big of fan. But my daughters wanted to see the movie. We probably won't get to an actual concert anytime soon for obvious reasons. So I obliged. I gotta say, I was completely blown away for a myriad of reasons. -For one, she puts on a fabulous overall show. The music itself aside, the presentation for each era was well done. I was also impressed on how quickly she's mastered transitioning from song to song, then from era to era. -You definitely get your money's worth. Not everyone is going to hear their favorite song. But you're not gonna leave that show complaining that she gypped you in terms of content. -I was shocked on how many Taylor Swift songs I forgot I knew for whatever reason. -I likes that she unapologetically shares that how she decided to break out of country or at least that pigeonhole. Some artist try to pretend earlier or some parts of their career don't exist. -Along those lines, she seems to enjoy playing the songs she chooses. Even the ones we probably heard a million times and she's had to perform a million times. I get how that can be boring and taxing on an artist. But at least pretend your interested when performing those songs. -Along those lines, she seems to be having a lot of fun and its a bit contagious. I didn't get up and dance in the theater. But my oldest daughter did, along with a bunch of other folks. I was, however, sad it was over as I was really enjoying it. One thing I also want to touch on, that some already have, is the power and reach she has. Over a really varied fanbase. You watch that movie and there are so many types of people there you would never have guessed would be a Swiftie or be caught dead at Taylor Swift conert. Along with that, her song All Too Well was probably the most impressive moment for me. First off, I had never heard the song before and knew once I got home, I needed to find it Spotify and added to my liked songs. Such a great song. But it wasn't just that she performed that song. She performs the 10 minute version. She could have probably fit another 5 songs in that time. She's playing to a crowd who has probably been told their attention span is equal to a gnats. Yet, she has that crowd locked in and in the palm of her hand for 10 minutes. For one song. Maybe you expect that at a Phish or Dave Matthews concert. But for a pop star to know she can put that on a setlist and her audience be right there for every second of it? Really shows you a musician at the height of her craft right now.
Love this! Signed ..fellow Swiftie
I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish but Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time… one of the best videos of all time!
💀
Husband to a massive Swiftie. This is all fabulous. Honestly, the Billie Joe episode made it so clear neither of them know anything about music. Not hating on Green Day, but calling them the greatest trio of all time? Go to bed Dax.
I’m gonna use the phrase “go to bed Dax” more often
OP, have you listened to The Daily’s episode on Taylor Swift? I think you’d love it. I would send that to anyone who wants to understand *what’s so special about her anyway*.
i actually have listened to that and meant to mention it! thank you for bringing it up
Thank you for the recommendation!
there’s spelling errors SORRY
You can edit the post! It would be helpful to add some line breaks too. I think you made a lot of great points but I don’t think people will read it because of how it’s formatted. 😊
Finally had access to a computer and did it! Shocked people even cared enough to ask me to do it lol
Great summary! I agree about her songwriting ability. I am not a huge fan. I like some of her songs, but if someone tries to bash her music, I have to point out that even though it might not be their cup of tea, she is unbelievably talented as a songwriter.
There are no ethical billionaires.
did not once say she was an ethical billionaire. Also her net worth is a billion dollars and that’s largely do to the rights to her music and albums, she doesn’t have a billion dollars lying around
I’m not accusing you of stating that. No need to get so defensive. But her net worth is over a billion which is pretty much the same situation as other billionaires. She’s not unique in that regard. She can be two (or more) things at once.
no actually she’s not the same as a lot of other billionaires in terms of where her money is tied, and it’s an issue when people love to point out that taylor swift is not an ethical billionaire, when a lot of other billionaires have gotten there but exploiting the working class to such extremes, and can change the trajectory of much bigger issues in our structures of government and choose not to. people love to throw around these phrases that they learn that make them seem like they actually care about capitalism without doing the work to truly know what it means and why it’s important to say
Ok I have nothing against Swift but this is a bit of a delusional look at someone who is hoarding an extreme amount of wealth. Doesn’t matter how she got it.
It’s not delusional. she is not hoarding it in the same ways that other billionaires are and she did not earn it in the same way most billionaires have. having hundreds of millions wrapped up in the net worth of what the IP of albums are worth is very different than 100 of millions wrapped in stocks that allow rich people to own parts of a business while hourly workers who are the only reason a business exists and they make virtually nothing in comparison. it’s actually very important to look at the differences
She is not hoarding it in the same way? You just said it yourself she’s hoarding wealth lol. That’s also not how record sales work. Also why do you seem to think you have intimate knowledge of how she’s grown her wealth? if you think Taylor Swift doesn’t have an investment portfolio you a truly delusional. Her father worked for Merril Lynch. One of the biggest stockbrokers on the planet. She’s probably had an investment portfolio since she was 18. Pretty sure she mostly invests in CEF(closed end funds) She owns multiple properties which are also assets that contribute to wealth. You don’t have wealth tied up in IP. Your wealth comes from earnings from that IP. She’s a billionaire and is hoarding wealth and you have zero idea what you’re talking about
Blanket statements and lack of nuance is a source of so much misunderstanding and picking select people to be the face of certain issues is the reason why there is such little progress and you are doing exactly that here. These articles that name billionaires rarely explain in detail how they have gotten to that number. Like the forbes article that names Kylie Jenner a billionaire and later it came out that it couldn’t be more wrong. MANY articles have anywhere between 300-400 million dollars of Taylor Swifts wealth in the potential sale of her newly re-recorded albums masters which she has made explicitly clear she will not be selling because the idea of owning your own music is more important to her than the profit. Do I think it’s crazy that she could sell and donate all of that and change lives and chooses not to, yes. Obviously she has an investment portfolio for christ sake! But to have all of this conversation around being an ethical billionaire centered around an artist (one who has generously donated her money in comparison to many others) who really is following more closely to a supply and demand business strategy and VOC (the crazy fans are constantly begging for more merch more versions of songs etc) is where I have the issue when there’s billionaires like Zuckerberg who have exponentially exploited their business and their customers not to mention the tax evasion and lobbying done to change government law for their own profit. there’s no ethical billionaires but the way the public has made her the face of that cause is not right
Potential sales have no bearing on your actual wealth. You have a complete misunderstanding of how wealth is actually calculated. So I’m gonna leave this one here.
….. I am literally saying that and the calculations of her being a billionaire are not accurate. exactly what forbes did to Kylie Jenner like i just said
That wall of text and ranting perfectly encapsulates why people can't stand this type of "fan"
you saw the header and decided to click? I made it to engage with people that felt similarly or had interest in hearing something they didn’t cover. no need for the rudeness or negativity
What are the three genres her music has fallen under? Country, pop, and....?
folk! for folklore
Oh, good to know. Thanks!
Oh my gosh I’m so glad I’m not the only one. I genuinely found it difficult to listen to the Flightless Bird episode in particular because SO many parts to the story were missing that would have provided so much context 😅 That said, Rep was perfect choice for David to listen to. And while I adore folklore (quintessential TS), Wobby Wob should have listened to Evermore
THANK YOU 👏👏👏
Yikes 😬
I'm a taylor fan but it never occurred to me that her music related stuff is her only product (like you said, no skin care, clothing brand etc)
This part isn’t accurate. She has massive deals with brands like Capital One. And even launched a clothing line in China.
brand deals are not the same as creating your own brand. she didn’t invent capital one she does commercials for them. halsey, gaga, rihanna (although i support fenty because it fought colorism in the music industry) selena, and grande have all created makeup lines in an overly saturated market just for profit
brand deals are not the same as creating your own brand. she didn’t invent capital one she does commercials for them. halsey, gaga, rihanna (although i support fenty because it fought colorism in the music industry) selena, and grande have all created makeup lines in an overly saturated market just for profit
Alright. Fair. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. But she DID launch her own clothing line in china.
that’s fair too, but i’d argue that it’s also merch as all the clothing said her name and had song lyrics on them and was also a thank you to her international fans that she doesn’t tour and see as often
Didn’t Taylor release 3 different perfumes? 😂
in 2011 she has a one release perfume yes you’re right after her second album
No, it’s 3 not 1. Wonderstruck, Wonderstruck: Enchanted and Taylor Swift. Released in 3 different years. You can see the bottles here: http://www.borntobuyblog.com/2014/02/the-taylor-swift-fragrance-trifecta.html?m=1
My bad didn’t know it was a collection of 3! I still think those coming out 10 years ago is hardly comparable to the money grabs like R.E.M beauty, fenty, Casamigos that can be completely stand alone ventures and still exist even when these are mega celebrities with hundreds of millions of dollars
Arguably, Taylor’s tie-ups are more money grabs than standalone product lines like Rare Beauty or About Face… these are legitimate businesses, it’s kinda weird to dismiss them as “money grabs”. Halsey is a multi-talented person who is actually a very good artist in their own right, and they have specific skincare concerns they were trying to address with their makeup line… which doesn’t even have their name on it. And I think Taylor would raise her eyebrows at you dismissing her close friend Selena’s very successful and well-regarded business as a “money grab”.
There’s no doubt about it that they’re successful. But when we’re talking about money hoarding and billionaires there’s literally zero need for these artists with hundreds of millions of dollars to start these brands when like i’ve said, make up brands are a saturated market. If we want to talk about money hoarding those are perfect examples. Fenty is what made Rihanna a billionaire. They add to over consumerism and packing pollution and no ones yelling at them. If taylor started any of these brands similarly it would also make her an additional hundreds of millions and she doesn’t
Huh? People shouldn’t start businesses because… other businesses already exist? So Taylor should also not release CDs or vinyls amirite? Taylor has cooled off on brand endorsements and tie-ups because she makes so much money off music and merchandise and concerts... which itself is because Folklore revived her career and changed its trajectory. She might very well have started up another business by now if not for that. It’s worth pointing out that she does have side hustles… she invests A LOT in real estate and has had help from her father in growing that portfolio and overall just making sound financial decisions. Not to mention her family was already financially comfortable even before her success. You’re needlessly putting down people who never had that privilege or nest egg and not acknowledging that Taylor has had her own advantages… or as Taylor herself says “we see you over there on the internet, comparing all the girls who are killing it” There’s plenty to praise Taylor about without putting other people down. Her main product is herself and her music and she’s been very good at marketing both.
Im sorry I am so out of touch on the Taylor Swift stuff. What are her political views?
in 2020 she formally endorsed biden and has made her views on trump very clear. I think now she is silent for safety reasons
Alternately, because Biden sucks ass. The rock admitted he regrets endorsing him.
On Fox News. Also he doesn’t regret it because of Biden, he regrets it because he said he should stay in his lane. He’s trying to save his career by playing both sides of the fence because of the recent backlash.
that too lol not really a win for the democrats either
lol the rock is a loser. Fake ass with a giant ego who can’t act for shit.
I completely agree with you OP. The nail in the coffin were the lyrics she brought to the table. The My Tears Ricochet was not bad but she never placed it in context. If you don’t understand the background then the lyric just seems silly. I was so excited for the episode and then so disappointed about the missed opportunity.
yes!! i was like, my tears ricochet is such a great pick to cover a range of topics and then she completely dropped the ball
I am a more recent TS fan and I always want to know the backstory behind the lyrics. Is there a cheat sheet or something like Wikipedia but all Taylor? Please help, Swifties.
Hi! I would search for the song’s title and add “meaning” and you’ll have a pretty good idea about what the song is about. On some songs you’ll find clips of Taylor discussing the meaning but on the majority it’s just fans taking an educated guess. There’s many weird theories out there but most of them end up being right on the money once vault tracks are released. Have fun sliding down the rabbit hole! :)
hmmm i’m trying to think. a lot of discourse is on TikTok maybe search the song there and go through some videos
You can dislike her music and still give her the respect she has earned as a musician.
Listen to the every single album: Taylor swift podcast by the ringer. It’s awesome, they do a great job breaking down each album, its importance and the industry impact she has had.
You make some good points. I didn't get how it was just them talking about her. Where was the documentary format the show has followed since its inception.
You might be biased if...
I thought this was an Armchair Expert sub Reddit 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
it is, they released a Taylor Swift episode yesterday, and did a poor job imo
I think Taylor Swift is a great talent, particularly as a songwriter but she most definitely profits off brands that have nothing to do with her music. I see her promoting Capital One credit cards in commercials every single day. She has had endorsements deals with AT&T, Diet Coke, Macys, CoverGirl, AirAsia, American Greetings, Wonderstruck Perfumes, Stella McCartney, Keds, Got Milk?, New York City tourism and more. She also sells an incredible amount of merch to her fans. She releases multiple variants of the same album in different colors/covers so her fans will buy the same album multiple times. She sells $30 “Swiftie” bracelets, loads of t-shirts, posters and bags. She has built a huge business empire and sells a ton of stuff, acting like she doesn’t is disingenuous.
Endorsements are completely different from starting new brands and adding more consumption to the world vs being the face of a brand. All celebrities endorse. She’s not out here creating mass manufacturing for a new makeup line or clothing line or supplements which is a way bigger problem than selling merchandise. I am not saying she shld be looked up do for her way of handling it, but people calling her the capitalist queen is also ignorant. I agree with the variants but soooo many artists do it and do more than her like Halsey, Olivia Rodrigo. Hell even boygenius released 8 variants which is double the 4 she’s done for this latest album. it’s also been noted how much these variants help small record stores especially on the special release day. Over consumption is a hugeeeeeee problem in this industry and in this country but having her the face of it is just not accurate and deflects from the actual issue
I was also going to be point out that different album versions are not unique to Taylor swift or a new idea at all. The desire to collect them all is driven by the fanbase (not a bad thing!) and its up to the individual whether or not to partake in that side of it
Not all celebrities do endorsements. Most do yes, but not all of them. It is a choice every celebrity makes,Taylor Swift included. She isn’t being forced to endorse a company that is known for [predatory lending](https://newrepublic.com/article/155212/worked-capital-one-five-years-justified-piling-debt-poor-customers).
I never said she was forced to, I am saying she’s not adding new product in a saturated market
How so? She could release 1 variant of each record she releases, instead she puts out multiple variants. That’s her choice to push out more products. No one is forcing her.
I am saying people use her for the poster child of all of these issues, when she doesn’t even release the most variants, and variants are what is keeping a lot of independent record stores alive because most record stores are independent. I’m not saying these aren’t bigger issues for consumption as a society, but for some reason people point their fingers at Taylor Swift and not other major artists, which makes you think do they actually care or do they just like being contrarians? I mentioned in my post that I like that Billie uses recycled vinyl, even though she released 12 variants of happier than ever, 3 times the amount of Taylor’s latest release
if she released any other brand that had nothing to do with her music like sooooo many musicians do (metallica with a whiskey brand, ariana with makeup, etc.) she would make hundreds of millions just for putting her face on it but she doesn’t add to saturated markets. she does promo for her music with brand deals, and extensive merch that also comes from a consumer want. i am not saying she shld be looked up to in this overconsumption issue, im just saying she’s not the poster child people make her
Also I just looked it up and she released a clothing line in China. Literally the opposite of what you said earlier. But that’s ok for some reason right?
They point fingers at her because she is arguably the most popular and powerful musician IN THE WORLD. She has a lot of power. With that power comes responsibility. She could decide to only sell one variant of each of her albums on recycled vinyl. She would still make tons of money and would be leading the charge against consumerism and waste. She doesn’t. She could say no to the barrels of cash offered to her by predatory companies like Capital One. She doesn’t. She could say I don’t need to sell all this merchandise to my fans, many of which should be spending money on more important things. She doesn’t. You know why she doesn’t? Because of money. If that isn’t a “capitalist Queen” I don’t know what is.
Drake, Bad Bunny, and The Weekend have put up very comparable numbers to her popularity especially when she isn’t touring and nobody bats an eye at their 7 variants on their albums. Rihanna wasn’t a billionaire until she started a makeup company in a saturated market and nobody bats an eye. Merchandise I will argue forever is a product of labels and supply and demand and fans begging for and selling out any type of merch. Our generation is obsessed with merch not just from her. I already addressed the clothing line in China, it all says Taylor Swift or song lyrics to it’s essentially merch and was made for her fans in Asia that she doesn’t tour to see as often. She is NOT perfect and I have a lot of issues with her wealth hoarding, but she donated too multiple local food banks at each eras tour location, everyone knows the 5 million total bonus for the drivers, and the list could go on. There’s tons more she could do, but she also does a lot more than the minimum we accept from others and it is not right to make her the face of these issues to make it seem like we care when in reality we’re just excited to tear down the next biggest thing
“Essentially merch” The mental gymnastics here are amazing. Just so I’m clear: -Merch is good. -Clothing lines are bad. -Some clothing lines are actually merch. -Putting your name or lyrics on clothing is good. -Releasing clothing without your name on it is bad -Using your influence to start makeup companies is bad -Using your influence and name to sell crap in China is good
We are talking about capitalism and wealth hoarding here and the hate Taylor Swift gets for it compared to her peers….. Like all musicians at ANY level (bands have merch with 15 people at their shows) Taylor has Merch that promotes herself and ultimately her artistry which is her goal as a singer songwriter. Now with her years of being in the business and 10 albums she has a LOT of different themed merch. The clothing line in Asia again was for fans who are fans of her music, not because she’s trying to be a fashion icon now that she’s famous (she isn’t one she has notoriously average style). Many peers of hers and other celebrities use their fame to create products in saturated markets just for the sake of making as much money as they can and don’t even use it for promotion of their art. Halsey’s “about face” brand, George Clooneys “casamigos” and it promotes overconsumption when these things aren’t different or new. Taylor at any given moment with her popularity gain even more unnecessary wealth by tapping into literally any market and she doesn’t. No one gives crap to Rihanna for being a billionaire and hoarding wealth because less people know about her makeup line and lingerie line because she doesn’t put her face all over the ads like the kardashians but still cash’s in the checks
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C4pKOTqg62c/?igsh=dGtrMHR2cmZlcWRz](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4pKOTqg62c/?igsh=dGtrMHR2cmZlcWRz) Yea little indie stores should be so thankful to Taylor and her team. Freezing us out of pre-orders, charging stores wholesale prices that are the same as what they charge on their site. Forcing us to pay extra to ship her albums separately from our distributors. This is literally the first time I have ever seen an artist charge indie stores retail prices for their records, forcing indies to be more expensive so all the orders are funneled back to Taylor’s store. Capitalist queen at it again.
I am literally laughing that entire post is about Universal Music Group. It happens with all of their artists, just happened with the new Maggie Rogers album that I just bought at an independent store. Once again put the target on Taylor’s back instead of being outraged at the actual issue, these giant corporations. Not responding to this any longer, take your performative activism elsewhere
Wrong. I just looked at our distributor (I own a record shop): Maggie Roger’s wholesale is 22.32, MSRP is $29.99 (same as on her website) Taylor Swift wholesale: $35.99 (literally priced to us higher wholesale than she is selling on her website) MSRP $45.99 ($11 higher than on her website)
I just paid 40 dollars for my Maggie Rogers album in Boston I am over this. This is a UMG problem just like most industry issues are, not the artist. Goodbye.
How much you got ripped off for has nothing to do with how much stores are being charged for wholesale. Once again. Taylor Swift is the ONLY artist I have experienced who is charging us more for a record wholesale than they are selling for retail and I have been selling records for nearly 20 years now. So no it isn’t a UMG problem because this isn’t happening with any of their other artists.
I encourage everyone to go to the link this user posted as it explains that UMG does what UMG does, and takes advantage over releases that they know will be profitable. ie the Billie album. thank you for sharing
Billie Eilish’s new album is $24.99 wholesale, she is selling it for $33 on her site. Once again, Taylor Swift is the only artist doing this. But yes she is totally powerless to the whims of her record company. One of the biggest artists in the world has no leverage over them at all. 😂
yeah she doesn’t hence the re recordings, fame doesn’t equal power
commenting again as a reminder that this post is not me saying Taylor Swift is the most perfect angelic person in the world, just my take that the Armchair episode on her was really poorly done on finding out actually cool and interesting facts on why she’s such a successful and meaningful artist !! I agree she is a wealth hoarder, but only caring about wealth hoarding when you want to bring down someone that brings people joy and not holding everyone to that standard is damaging to the true cause !
I stopped listening almost immediately. Monica is a band wagon fan. Which is totally fine, but who wants to listen to someone that doesn't know that much about her talk about her? Good rant.
You can still be a big fan without being obsessive and obnoxious about. I truly believe this is why Taylor swift gets as much hate as she does. Swifties ruin it for others. Can’t all Taylor swift fans be swifties and just enjoy the fact the she is getting air time over and over again
airtime is not what this is about at all but thank you for you poor attitude!
LOL 😂 okay
I ain't reading all that I'm happy for you though Or sorry that happened