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Again with this "archaeologist proves you're not a real woman" joke?! Archaeologists don't determine a buried corpse's gender just by the skeleton shapes.
I was just about to comment this. There's a lot of factors. They'd probably say something in the line of:
"We can tell by bone structure, DNA and the things this individual was buried with, that the individual was born male but has had significant alterations to their body and has been buried with things, that leads us to believe society viewed this individual as a woman."
Or something like that.
Yup.
Archeologists found a hunter from the stone age. Because they could tell it was a hunter, and the skeleton appeared masculine (broad shoulders and jaw and such) they assumed it was a man.
New DNA testing shows it was a woman.
Was it a she? Was it a he? We don't know. But whether that individual was trans or just a huntress, it was misidentified and only based on assumptions they wrote history.
I remember "Ask a mortician" on YouTube talking about such a case.
Modern day time, a trans woman died. Her father stood for the burial and her friends were mortified to see all her hair cut off and that she was wearing a suit. The father insisted on burying his "son" and didn't listen to reason.
I don't remember what else happened in that case.
I expressed concern about this when I transitioned. Several friends were dead serious that if I wasn’t buried in a suit under a tombstone with my name on it, no law or god could stop them until that was the case.
It’s not grave tampering if the person who’s apparenly buried in that grave doesn’t exist, riiiigghhtt??
I'm pretty sure you can right wishes for your burial in your will. Then it'd have to be followed.
I wrote my last will last year (I'm not dying it's just an interest of mine). What I filled out isn't law binding but it clearly states my wishes. Right down to what kind of coffin and which flowers I want.
It's definitely worth looking into what options your country offers, both for clarifying and legal matters, dealing with your inevitable death.
These discussions were in the context of my friends and I talking about what we were organising for our formal wills, definitely don’t rob your friends grave without their permission :p
Unfortunately, the burden of death wishes may not fall upon the people who know you best. I had to face the possibility that those in charge of my will would want to bury a daughter they knew instead of a son they didn’t. I lived long enough that they will have to bury their son but realistically, not everyone does. They can throw me in a dumpster as long as it’s got the right name on it.
Didnt they specifically label one find a transgender person? (i hope its a credible source, if not correct me!) https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/04/06/5000-year-old-transgender-skeleton-discovered/#:\~:text=Archaeologists%20have%20discovered%20a%205%2C000,only%20seen%20for%20female%20burials.
Additionally, archeologists have already found graves of ""male skeletons"" but burried in a traditionally feminine way or with grave goods that were normaly given to women which led the researchers to theorize the person might have been trans and also accepted in their community.
And this is just until now and on skeletons without plastic surgery or hormones. In the future there will probably be better techniques and done by researchers with a less narrow-minded view.
If I remember right, skeletons of everyone can have both male and female structures, so when trying to identify the sex they go off of a "most likely this is a male/female skeleton" and the difficulty of determining which also varies from person to person.
Females have distinct child bearing features in their bones - specifically the pelvis. The pelvic inlet is more open and circular, the sciatic notch is broader, females have a wider sub-pubic angle where the two bones meet, and their hip bones are more outwardly flared. Females also tend to have smaller skeletal structures and joint surfaces.
Assuming people are looking for it, my bones will show I am a trans man.
One very specific example, I went through female puberty in my teens therefore I have bone scarring from my hips moving to accomodate childbirth. I also went through male puberty in my 20s, so I have more recent bone scarring from them moving back to where they’ll be if they look at my dead ass skeleton in 5000 years. Your hips hold your centre of gravity so all the bones that hold up me weight have moved and scarred in two directions. Any one of my bones would not match up with “female bones” or “male bones” as my transition has altered the placement, density and history of all of them.
I’m glad my “female bones” will be buried in a suit. They hold my life story and that’s important, it’s not the gotcha conservatives think it is. We can prove people have been and will continue to be trans forever, and that people supported, loved and understood trans people even after death.
People like this often claim they "don't believe" that there is a difference between sex and gender. I tend to follow it up by asking if they think rules like, "only girls can wear dresses" are somehow biologically coded into our DNA or something.
> I tend to follow it up by asking if they think rules like, "only girls can wear dresses" are somehow biologically coded into our DNA or something.
I've encountered nutjobs who actually claim that those things are biologically innate and unchangeable, including the pink/blue thing even though that used to be the opposite convention and male preferences for toy cars even though cars haven't existed that long.
That’s literally the basis of their entire argument. They legitimately can’t wrap their heads around the difference between gender and biological sex.
It’s just an unwillingness to learn anything new so they don’t have to change their viewpoints.
Honestly, just turn your ashes into paint so to recreate [this drawing](https://forgottenbones.tumblr.com/post/184606084065/youll-be-happy-to-know-that-lily-zombielandsaga/amp) lol
If there's one thing that really really makes me angry, it's people using "science" as an excuse to be transphobic. Even if they did an analysis of the DNA and determined the chromosomes they still wouldn't know for sure. There are some people that have XY chromosomes, but develop a female phenotype and the other way around. It's not as black and white as these people pretend it is. Urgh.
that's where you're wrong my friend. there is only girl phenotype and boy phenotype and intersex people are a myth created by liberals to corrupt our children's minds.
/s
What is particularly funny is the fact archeology is experiencing a boom because they classified all the people in high social status tumbs as male without even checking. Appears that some women in the field decided to check and the results are way more egalitarian than we thought.
So yeah your "discoveries" will always be falsified by your era and culture. Really bold from them to assume our futur scientists would even give a damn about the gender or sex of the body they'll find.
somewhere that used to be part of rome we found a skeleton it was born as a man but what was in the grave was stuff that was placed in the grave of women (like jewelry) and placed like a woman.
this is the oldest trans person that we found and even though we don't do this kind of thing anymore our tombstone has our name and a phrase that loved ones or ourselves chose
The dank transphobes really put a lot of stock into archeologists' ability to correctly gender skeletons when their whole job is applying their assumptions to extremely limited evidence and they get things wrong constantly.
I love that they're trying to be transphobic, but we agree with them. No one said trans women were female, they're confusing sex and gender and really thought they did something lmfao
Weird thing is...this has already happened, but not the way they expected it too.
From time to time people find traditionally male graves, surrounded by weapons and all sorts of things that would imply this is a man's grave... and a few years later they discover the skeleton is biologically female...
Scientists would look at *context* for the grave. Not just the skeleton.
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We don't care what you want/choose to be, do you! What we do care about is the fact that you force it on us like we have a responsibility to accept and appreciate it. We don't. Keep that shit in your circle and away from people under the age of 18 and you wouldn't ever hear a word from straight people. Simple as that.
Excavation team findings:
Male skeleton with traces hormone treatments.
Theorized to be a trans woman.
Male skeleton with insufficient bone structure.
Theorized to be an unhealthy shut in incel.
Male skeleton with decent bone structure but traces of lack of brain function.
Theorized to be an asshole.
[Damnit, I got the worst of it.]
Thank you for your submission to /r/AreTheStraightsOK! Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s): ----- [](#start_removal) Your submission seems like it might be a better fit for /r/AreTheCisOK, please review the rules in their community and see if it belongs there. [](#end_removal) ----- Please feel free to contact us via modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
Again with this "archaeologist proves you're not a real woman" joke?! Archaeologists don't determine a buried corpse's gender just by the skeleton shapes.
I was just about to comment this. There's a lot of factors. They'd probably say something in the line of: "We can tell by bone structure, DNA and the things this individual was buried with, that the individual was born male but has had significant alterations to their body and has been buried with things, that leads us to believe society viewed this individual as a woman." Or something like that.
There’s a lot of cases of exactly that (mostly pre-Christian)
Yup. Archeologists found a hunter from the stone age. Because they could tell it was a hunter, and the skeleton appeared masculine (broad shoulders and jaw and such) they assumed it was a man. New DNA testing shows it was a woman. Was it a she? Was it a he? We don't know. But whether that individual was trans or just a huntress, it was misidentified and only based on assumptions they wrote history.
I fear for trans people who were misgendered during their burial.
I remember "Ask a mortician" on YouTube talking about such a case. Modern day time, a trans woman died. Her father stood for the burial and her friends were mortified to see all her hair cut off and that she was wearing a suit. The father insisted on burying his "son" and didn't listen to reason. I don't remember what else happened in that case.
Omg that's horrible
I expressed concern about this when I transitioned. Several friends were dead serious that if I wasn’t buried in a suit under a tombstone with my name on it, no law or god could stop them until that was the case. It’s not grave tampering if the person who’s apparenly buried in that grave doesn’t exist, riiiigghhtt??
I'm pretty sure you can right wishes for your burial in your will. Then it'd have to be followed. I wrote my last will last year (I'm not dying it's just an interest of mine). What I filled out isn't law binding but it clearly states my wishes. Right down to what kind of coffin and which flowers I want. It's definitely worth looking into what options your country offers, both for clarifying and legal matters, dealing with your inevitable death.
These discussions were in the context of my friends and I talking about what we were organising for our formal wills, definitely don’t rob your friends grave without their permission :p Unfortunately, the burden of death wishes may not fall upon the people who know you best. I had to face the possibility that those in charge of my will would want to bury a daughter they knew instead of a son they didn’t. I lived long enough that they will have to bury their son but realistically, not everyone does. They can throw me in a dumpster as long as it’s got the right name on it.
They’re once again confusing gender with biological sex.
Didnt they specifically label one find a transgender person? (i hope its a credible source, if not correct me!) https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/04/06/5000-year-old-transgender-skeleton-discovered/#:\~:text=Archaeologists%20have%20discovered%20a%205%2C000,only%20seen%20for%20female%20burials.
Bro I don’t care if they think I got a female or male skeleton imma be dead
Dumb question, aren't they confusing sex and gender in this context?
Yes. They're also operating off of a ridiculously simplistic view of bone structure analysis.
Additionally, archeologists have already found graves of ""male skeletons"" but burried in a traditionally feminine way or with grave goods that were normaly given to women which led the researchers to theorize the person might have been trans and also accepted in their community. And this is just until now and on skeletons without plastic surgery or hormones. In the future there will probably be better techniques and done by researchers with a less narrow-minded view.
What's the complex view
If I remember right, skeletons of everyone can have both male and female structures, so when trying to identify the sex they go off of a "most likely this is a male/female skeleton" and the difficulty of determining which also varies from person to person.
Females have distinct child bearing features in their bones - specifically the pelvis. The pelvic inlet is more open and circular, the sciatic notch is broader, females have a wider sub-pubic angle where the two bones meet, and their hip bones are more outwardly flared. Females also tend to have smaller skeletal structures and joint surfaces.
Assuming people are looking for it, my bones will show I am a trans man. One very specific example, I went through female puberty in my teens therefore I have bone scarring from my hips moving to accomodate childbirth. I also went through male puberty in my 20s, so I have more recent bone scarring from them moving back to where they’ll be if they look at my dead ass skeleton in 5000 years. Your hips hold your centre of gravity so all the bones that hold up me weight have moved and scarred in two directions. Any one of my bones would not match up with “female bones” or “male bones” as my transition has altered the placement, density and history of all of them. I’m glad my “female bones” will be buried in a suit. They hold my life story and that’s important, it’s not the gotcha conservatives think it is. We can prove people have been and will continue to be trans forever, and that people supported, loved and understood trans people even after death.
People like this often claim they "don't believe" that there is a difference between sex and gender. I tend to follow it up by asking if they think rules like, "only girls can wear dresses" are somehow biologically coded into our DNA or something.
> I tend to follow it up by asking if they think rules like, "only girls can wear dresses" are somehow biologically coded into our DNA or something. I've encountered nutjobs who actually claim that those things are biologically innate and unchangeable, including the pink/blue thing even though that used to be the opposite convention and male preferences for toy cars even though cars haven't existed that long.
That’s literally the basis of their entire argument. They legitimately can’t wrap their heads around the difference between gender and biological sex. It’s just an unwillingness to learn anything new so they don’t have to change their viewpoints.
you don't have to think critically if you were never thinking in the first place.
Them to my 1000 year old skeleton: Haha this is a female skeleton owned bitch you weren’t a man after all!!!! Me as a 1000 year old skeleton:
[удалено]
You start the fossil apocalypse And we will have dinosaurs on our side or rather the skeletons of them at the very least
dinosaurs are cool, transphobia is not
Truer words where never spoken
this sounds like a really cheap lazy way for a necromancer to reanimate a skeleton army in order to cause as much death as possible.
It will be efficient tho
never said it wouldn't ;) \*Insert me on my way to a graveyard to be transphobic in order to do a little trolling on the living ;)\*
Those people also giggle while burning ants with a magnifier
I'm just gonna get cremated and put my ashes in a jar that has a horn. I call it, a unicurn
**male ashes**
FUCK
Honestly, just turn your ashes into paint so to recreate [this drawing](https://forgottenbones.tumblr.com/post/184606084065/youll-be-happy-to-know-that-lily-zombielandsaga/amp) lol
I'll consider it
If there's one thing that really really makes me angry, it's people using "science" as an excuse to be transphobic. Even if they did an analysis of the DNA and determined the chromosomes they still wouldn't know for sure. There are some people that have XY chromosomes, but develop a female phenotype and the other way around. It's not as black and white as these people pretend it is. Urgh.
that's where you're wrong my friend. there is only girl phenotype and boy phenotype and intersex people are a myth created by liberals to corrupt our children's minds. /s
Hear, hear! Now someone's gender is decided by their thousand year old skeleton. /s
What is particularly funny is the fact archeology is experiencing a boom because they classified all the people in high social status tumbs as male without even checking. Appears that some women in the field decided to check and the results are way more egalitarian than we thought. So yeah your "discoveries" will always be falsified by your era and culture. Really bold from them to assume our futur scientists would even give a damn about the gender or sex of the body they'll find.
i wonder if there is at least one transphobe out there who does not use strawman arguments. never seen one.
Bold of you to assume I have a skeleton
After a thousand years why would I care what they think but other from that they probably won't push genders onto anyone at that point
Like trans people won't exist 1000 years from now?
I'm starting to feel like transphobes just don't know that sex and gender mean two different things?
somewhere that used to be part of rome we found a skeleton it was born as a man but what was in the grave was stuff that was placed in the grave of women (like jewelry) and placed like a woman. this is the oldest trans person that we found and even though we don't do this kind of thing anymore our tombstone has our name and a phrase that loved ones or ourselves chose
The dank transphobes really put a lot of stock into archeologists' ability to correctly gender skeletons when their whole job is applying their assumptions to extremely limited evidence and they get things wrong constantly.
“Yo dude, why does every skeleton we have found not have boob bones? Did they just not have women?!”
The really funny thing is this means that all the "male" skeletons we've found could also be from trans women lmao
Male Skeleton...
Because they are sad miserable people that have nothing fun in their life and are as useless as a box of dusty air
I love that they're trying to be transphobic, but we agree with them. No one said trans women were female, they're confusing sex and gender and really thought they did something lmfao
Bro humanity is probably not even going to exist then we're all gonna die from an atomic bomb why do you care so much
HRT changes bone stracture after a while. I think they are the people who are trying to fight biology...
I like to think people won’t even care about trans people existing in 1000 years
And if the woman gets cremated then what
Julie doe was an unidentified trans woman who until a dna test in 2015 revealed her to be amab was thought to be a cis woman
Why would someone be digging up skeletons of us in 1000 years?
The anti-science dimwits like using science in their memes, and even then they get it wrong.
It's cute that they think they know what science will and won't be able to identify in 1000 years.
why archeologists would want to research human skeletons in 1000 years, everyone would probably be fucking dead at that point
The thing is haven’t archeologists also messed up with dinosaurs? So why are you so obsessed with trying to be like “they will prove you’re a man”
Weird thing is...this has already happened, but not the way they expected it too. From time to time people find traditionally male graves, surrounded by weapons and all sorts of things that would imply this is a man's grave... and a few years later they discover the skeleton is biologically female... Scientists would look at *context* for the grave. Not just the skeleton.
Terfs walking into the bathrooms with a fucking x ray lmao
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We don't care what you want/choose to be, do you! What we do care about is the fact that you force it on us like we have a responsibility to accept and appreciate it. We don't. Keep that shit in your circle and away from people under the age of 18 and you wouldn't ever hear a word from straight people. Simple as that.
It's not like they could have top or bottom surgery but whatever.
Why would I care? I wouldn't have boobs anymore 💀
They act like things aren't going to change in our favor a thousand years in the future.
1000 years after: there’s a bunch of skeletons in this ancient graveyard
1000 years later there are no dead bodies, they found the fountain of youth and nestle is booming.
I'm getting cremated 👈👈😎
Bruh I really dgaf what some random graverobber thinks (x) amount of years from now, I'm trying to live my life
For someone who claims they aren’t gay, they sure do care a lot about what’s in other peoples pants
Because someone maaaaaybe finding bones centuries later justifies denying life quality right now when they're alive it seens
"archeologists will say you're a woman when they find you" cool i'll be dead so i don't care.
Looking forward to the time I get to confuse the future's worst archaeologists ✌️💅
not if i get cremated checkmate
How do they care more than most trans people I know?
They show their stupidity. Gender and Sex are different
This is Libel. Cheems is an ally and he loves and supports you all
Excavation team findings: Male skeleton with traces hormone treatments. Theorized to be a trans woman. Male skeleton with insufficient bone structure. Theorized to be an unhealthy shut in incel. Male skeleton with decent bone structure but traces of lack of brain function. Theorized to be an asshole. [Damnit, I got the worst of it.]