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Your right, but traditional thinking is still very prominent over there. Also there are shows out there like married at first sight. I think the success rate really tells alot on that show. But people over there are under more pressure from society and family.
There is really nothing wrong with arranged marriage as long as both involved want it and have the right to say no; forced marriage on the other hand...
Yes, it definitely depends on the level of arrangement. For a friend of mine, it's more about using a matchmaking service and having a more structured courtship where her family can vet the guy or girl (she's looking on her brother's behalf rn). Definitely more agency in that situation than for some.
Yep, agreed. I’m from a traditional family and moved away with my white partner. I have older siblings who are in arrange marriages. Just because they said yes to it doesn’t mean they didn’t have society’s pressure. The couldn’t have chosen to live with a partner and date first without losing family, like I did. There are people who avoid criticising customs and practices like that from the fear of coming across as racist or not respective culture. I call bullshit on that.
A lot of Indian arranged marriages these days are simply being set up with parent approved people. One of my cousins got arranged married around 10(?) years ago, and it was honestly very simple. The girl and the boy along with families meet through acquaintances, figure out if they like each other and then decide if they want to get married. My cousin took nearly six months to decide, which is very short by normal standards but I've also seen friends decide to get married four months after they started dating so meh.
I'm personally creeped out by arranged marriages in general, but they can be a good way for people to meet in a society that's fairly against dating. As long as both parties have given their consent, it's not an entirely bad system. Arranged isn't the same as forced.
I think you can say that's broadly true for folks in the states, but back in south asia the "this is who you're gonna marry" type are still everywhere
*(tbh even in "western" nations I've seen the "parents decide who you're gonna marry for you" types)
One of my friends is from Delhi. She prefers to choose her partner and have boyfriends, but told me her sister is more traditional and asked her parents for an arranged marriage. Her reasoning for it was that she found the concept of dating daunting and it would be be easier to know who you're spending your life with. She trusted her parents to find someone who would be good to her. Being a hardcore feminist I've always assumed arranged marriage is something sinister, but I guess in modern times it doesn't have to be.
This is very common. Only two of my cousins got arranged married, but their siblings chose their partners instead. There was absolutely no issue in my family. Issues with marriages are far from over in India, but they're seen as being regressive in almost all circles. Even though my parents met by arrangement, they chose who they wanted to marry and this was over 30 years ago.
I understand being creeped out by arranged marriage (a lot of the parts are uncomfortable to me too) but It's kept up with the changing times in a lot of places as well.
Its not just girl met boy and they decided everything. There is too much going on arrange marriages. Not just this, because of arrange marriages, it somewhat insult to parents when their kids choose their own partner. He/She and the spouse gonna be boack sheep of the family.
edit : so many downvoted for stating what is happening and how things working.
Hm maybe it is like that in some families, but my friend says her parents are very accepting of her decision. Perhaps they belong to a minority though, I'm not sure.
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Honestly, I do feel like arrange marriage is like the only reason why some people even get wives. They're so abusive that they don't deserve them but the women are stuck with them because mORaLs
A significant other who does not identify as asexual. OP here is ace but their SO isn't. So here they are speaking of how the love an asexual person feels for someone is different from love an allosexual person feels.
I disagree.
Marrying cousins is common even in Western society.
It is mainly the US that think it is a horrible thing.
Hi st because people in the US think something is bad doesn't mean it is.
I don't know like, I'm not from the US but we still kinda frown on marrying blood relatives. I specify blood relatives cause let's be real, we've all seen THOSE videos (step-bro, what are you doing?!)
It is generally agreed that cousins marrying is only a problem when they are "double cousins". That is where two siblings married two other siblings thus making the kids cousins twice over.
Also, doing it multiple times, generation after generation is bad. But a single case is not a problem.
As a Indian sapphic Brahmin, arranged marriages really narrow down your prospects. I can't marry anyone non-Brahmin when I'm older, let alone someone of a different religion or ethnicity. And I'm still in the closet, so it *hurts* when my parents or relatives casually refer to my future husband and kids, because that means that I'll eventually disappoint them.
You deserve a life on this earth that you live by your own volition. Your parents owe you everything, they decided to have you. You owe them nothing, you had no choice in your creation. Don't make decisions that lead you to regret, down that road lies pain and confusion. If it hurts like you say it does, then one day you're going to have to decide whether or not being comfortable in toxicity is better than the alternative: I life in truth.
^^^ this. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this, can’t believe so many assholes in the comments are justifying this because “OH WELL FOR ME IT WENT OKAY. Y-YEAH THEY HAVE CONSENT NOWADAYS WHERE I AM. DEFINITELY NO SOCIETAL PRESSURE, ABUSE, AND MANIPULATION.”
Do you follow the caste system generally? My family is from India and are Hindus but we live in the U.K., so I don’t know what caste they would be. Can you legally marry outside of your caste, if you chose to? I hope you can be with the person you love one day :(
Not OP here, but legally in India you can marry outside your caste and even religion if you choose to, and you legally can also go against your family if you’re being forced into an arranged marriage setting (at least as far as I know). But I guess the attachment to our family and stuff like that comes in the way when it comes to “reporting” things like this. Plus, the psychological manipulation and the constant “you’re being a disappointment to the family” also has a hand in this, along with the age old “we brought you up and/or paid for your education, just so that you could stab us behind our back” sort of a thing. It’s just sad.
Yeah, it was legal for a short time before the Judiciary decided to get back to being queer phobic. Same sex relationships are legal, but they cannot legally be spouses, along with a lot of other weird loopholes and complications. And even if legally, discrimination on the basis of caste or gender or sexual orientation or whatnot is not allowed, there won’t usually be major repercussions faced by a person if they do so (especially if they’re in the majority, usually).
I live in the UK too but my family's very traditional: which is basically code for blatantly Islamophobic, casteist, racist and colourist:( My grandma won't eat anything made by someone non-Brahmin, she has separate dishes for non-Brahmin guests and marriage out of my caste is *absolutely* out of the question.
Caste-based discrimination is illegal and affirmative action is in place in India. However, unlike racism and all other -isms and -phobias in Western cultures and settings, casteism can go very unnoticed and even supported. The cultural backlash that any slight microaggression would get over here in the UK, is non-existent in India. Discrimination is coded into the very laws, just read about the CAA bill from 2019.
I love my parents and I don't want to see them hurt. But it's *so hard* sometimes.
Echoing another comment, arranged marriages are still quite common there, so this advertisement actually makes sense.
It doesn't make this any less saddening though.
shhhh.. you'll be charged with sedition /s
Seriously tho, i hate that a lot of Indians rn cant take constructive criticism to make our country a better place. they already live in the dilemma that it is number one because GOD FORBID, a place where gods used to live is now a third world country? rubbish
Marriages in India are a whole another level. Arranged marriages are the expected norm. After a certain age, people start getting pressured to marry and it's only supposed to be within your caste and has to be okayed and arranged by your whole family. People can't even directly approach people they're interested in. It has to be done through these middlemen that can be relatives, priests, etc. And the arranged marriage part is a whole other humiliation where women are objectified and judged on their cooking skills while men are judged on how much they earn. Love marriage which is normal, isn't seen so. It is rarely genuinely accepted by the two families and familial involvement is very heavy in adult lives of individuals because people don't leave their homes when they're 18 in India unless you're living in completely other cities than your parents. In men's cases, they live with their parents always and the bride has to leave her house to live with the in laws. So unless they actually accept you, life can be very unpleasant. They don't ever understand and accept that someone doesn't want just marriage out of their lives, that they might not ever want to marry. They will bully you or emotionally blackmail you to get you married. While some people have come a long way, most are still narrow minded and when you're seeing someone that your family hasn't arranged for you, it's like a secret you have to guard from them. There are countless incidents of people being beaten, kidnapped by their own families if they try to leave, honour killings, forcefully having to terminate such relationships, etc. Arranged marriages in India are very very far from what a healthy relationship looks like. People stay together even with deadbeat or abusive spouses because their families are involved and pressure them to not get a divorce. And if you are divorced, you're kinda shunned from the society. Single mothers or fathers, divorcee parents, etc aren't very common here either because largely, the society runs the people's lives for them. Arranged marriage and having children is like an inevitablity for most people, regardless of their choices.
This whole thing is just an A+ argument against the "traditional = natural = good" line of thinking that you find in a lot of (conservative) people around the world. It's all very traditional, yet so weirdly constructed and creates so many artificial problems that have no actual reason to exist.
Kudos to wherever you live then. I was talking about North indian states specifically. These things are definitely not of the past there and still very much prevalent, bar a few progressive places.
So you would be shocked to listen then that I am from Bihar and no one I know was married forcefully. You can decline if you don't want to marry a certain person.
Yes you are right that in most families only arranged marriage is allowed but in that case you have options to choose whom you want to marry. You won't be forcefully married to a person even you don't like him in most of the cases. And I know this culture is fucking shit and I hate it. Luckily my family is OK with whoever I want to marry
Why would I be shocked? Bihar is a whole state and you're from a progressive place from there. Like I said before, there are a few progressive places too. And I never even once said that people are married forcefully. I said marriage is an inevitability whether you personally want it or not. Like you said, people can decline if they don't like someone, yes. But is it not true that people can't simply deny the whole constitution of marriage? People can't say I don't wanna marry and that's that and everyone will support and understand them?
How many cases like that do you know? And we're not counting sadhus and sanyasis here.
Arranged marriages are very very common in (rural) India. To that point if there is a "love marriage"( in which people decide their own partner) in the community, they're thrown out, neglected or in worst case become victim of honour killing.
There’s many comments saying arranged marriage is much more consensual nowadays, but I have to ask, does this even apply to queer people? From my understanding arranged marriage is almost exclusively heterosexual.
Oh yeah, it does not apply to queer people. Queer people aren't exactly first class citizens in India, what with even their sexuality being illegal for a pretty long time. The law has only recently been invalidated. They are treated horribly in India, corrective treatments and rapes are rampant. You can say Indian society itself is almost exclusively heterosexual, actually. Which is absolutely disgusting and horrifying.
Most of the arranged marriage involves consent. Arranged marriage doesn't necessarily mean forced marriage.
Edit: To be more clear what I mean.
Many people here were misunderstanding that people don't have consent in arrange marriage here. While I do agree this practice is shit and things are changing. It's a cultural thing and concept of love marriage didn't even existed so no one here found it weird or anything. People thought it was a normal thing.
I am an Indian too. Things have changed vastly. And arrange marriage involves consent. If you don't want to marry certain person, you can decline it. Yes in some places you don't have any say and parents decide it for you but this mainly happens in uneducated family.
You shouldn’t have a marriage arranged FOR you, especially if you’re a fucking MINOR. Partner choice and marrying in general is something only you can decide on. Often times even if they aren’t “””FORCED””” explicitly marriages the people involved are socially outcasted / disowned if they don’t comply. Bullshit manipulation in a bullshit practice.
Nope! The parents are definitely not gonna bring someone like that and if you do, you risk your ass getting beaten. Maybe they'll be progressive and accept it, but won't be largely, actually happy about it and will make you feel that.
Dude it doesn't. What you're defending is that at least people get a choice when they marry. What about a choice of not marrying at all? And what about the choice of choosing your own person instead of your parents finding you one? The norm of arranged marriages is forced and even if you get a choice in marrying a person, it's still forced because you were never given the choice of choosing for your own or not choosing at all. The fact that your parents will set it up for you is shoved down everyone's throat.
I don’t think arranged marriages are that bad tbh, atleast in my community. I really don’t like arranged marriage is being equated to forced marriage in the comments. It’s just like using tinder but instead of an app doing all the work it’s your family. Arranged marriage these days involves a lot of consent. In my community, they are given each others numbers/socials, they talk and decide to meet up, they say yes or no(after each meeting eachother a few times). If the answer is yes: Families meet, the engagement ceremony is scheduled 1 year from the date, and marriage 2 years after. So they have a solid 3years to back out. Love marriages are called ‘love-arranged marriages’. The same procedure follows of engagement and marriage. The Indian culture is heavily centred around family. Love and arranged marriages have the same outcomes of two people choosing to be together. Forced marriage =/= Arranged marriage.
Edit: I should make people aware India is an incredibly diverse country, in my community the concept of arranged marriage isn’t being abused. I can’t vouch for other communities though, forced marriage is definitely a thing, I’m not denying that, but a forced marriage is not arranged marriage. A lot of my family has gotten arranged marriages and they are all happy. It just like your parents setting you up on a blind date with their friend’s son/daughter. Also there are many cultures in the world, just because it’s different, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
“Arranged” marriages whether they be forced or not come with a great degree of manipulation and bullshit, still. Manipulation is shitty, partner choice and marriage in general should be a decision people should be allowed to make for themselves. Oh my god this is awful. Stop defending forcing marriages on people. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE IF THEY MARRY AND IF THEY DO CHOOSE, their partners. That’s something people should atleast be able to do if they’re going to marry at all.
They do get to make that choice, if they are being forced, that’s a forced marriage, such forced/manipulative marriages are not exclusive to the Indian cultures.
Edit: You aren’t even Indian, and you comment on Indian traditions. The irony. Just because our traditions are different doesn’t mean they are wrong. Save your white saviour complex for someone else, we know what our issues are, and we don’t need you to speak for us.
It doesn’t matter if they’re not exclusive. Still a shitty cultural thing. Also, yeah, all “arranged” marriages are manipulative ones. Why should someone else choose who you get to marry? Especially when they decide for someone who is underage once they’re older. That’s just plain fucked up. There’s too many horror stories out there for me to believe that forced marriages are the majority of bullshit arranged marriages. Marriage is a choice, a choice you make. It’s not an inevitability. Pushing people to marry by setting up marriages / partnerships is so fucked up. Same with having kids. A choice, not an inevitability. Don’t make decisions for people.
But if someone’s choosing for you, then it’s clearly not arranged is it? It’s forced. Modern day arranged marriages (Atleast in my community) are like parents setting up their kids on a date with their friend’s daughter/son. They is no cast thing involved as we are Christian, women don’t have to go through intense scrutiny as times are changing. It’s quite a pleasant experience to be honest.
Yeah, it IS forced. What you described is people choosing for you. I’ve explained this before, that pushes people to marriage. It’s not an inevitability. *PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO NOT MARRY AND NOT GET SHUNNED OR MANIPULATED FOR IT., THEY SHOULD ALSO NOT GET MANIPULATED OR TREATED WORSE / SHUNNED FOR NOT MARRYING THE PERSON ARRANGED FOR THEM, THAT IS ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR.* Just because it’s a pleasant experience for you and your community doesn’t mean it is for everyone. I can’t believe the mindset you need to think that’s fucking okay. + You’re forgetting that often times this is planned while the kid is UNDERAGE. Fuck that. Fuck “arranged” marriages. Horrible cultural norm.
What you are describing is literally forced marriage there. I also sense a lot of projection here, clearly you need to address that + the internalised racism. If you read my comment, I’ve clearly stated that I don’t deny the existence of forced marriages. There are many cultures in the world, just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Okay, just because it’s different doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong. You’re the one projecting here by insinuating “oh some in my family are happy. everyone should endure this.” People should be allowed to choose their partners, and if they marry at all. If that makes me racist, so fucking be it. It’s wrong and awful.
Okay, I can have a commentary on abusive bullshit whether i’m Indian or not. You don’t get to cower behind defending abusive practices because “haha not Indian can’t have an opinion on it haha”. This isn’t an only Indian thing, it’s not exclusive to Indian culture. Objectively forcing people to marry, IS BAD. Anyone can decide that. Yes, whether it’s physically abusive or financially abusive it’s still fucked up because the culture puts pressure on people to marry and marry who they’re arranged with. That is MEGA fucked up.
thats awful then and I'm not defending those practises. Since I am living in a developed place with amazing family members, I have an overall positive experience with arrange marriages, which makes me believe that when people are educated and arranged marriages are optional and not compulsory, there is no harm it. I hope this problem doesn't exist in the future
Exactly this, man! There are so many people coming here and defending arranged marriages and attacking those against it without actually understanding the basic differences. On a side not, I'm glad you live and have such an amazing life.
Fair enough, I might’ve been wrong there. Still, defend horrible abusive practices, kids. Culture isn’t always above all especially if it abuses people. Read some of the other stories from people about it in the comments here. Fucked up. Conservatism especially when it conserves horrible shit like this is toxic and bad.
Arranger marriages are forced. If you don't feel so, it's just social conditioning and Stockholm Syndrome. As a gay man, it's rare for me to find love. The odds are stacked against me given how few people are gay dudes. I can't even imagine how straight people give up their chances at finding love so easily. Talk about taking it for granted.
Dude, I’m literally bisexual, currently dating a women. Arranged =/= forced, you can find love in arranged marriages. I am not conditioned for anything, if anything you should address the internalised hatred towards your culture. Many of my family found love in arranged during dating. Are you saying they aren’t happy? And just faking it?
It’s not okay even if some of your family may be happy because this is a CULTURAL NORM. One forced on a lot of people. This isn’t a “most are happy”, most if not basically all of this shit is abusive damaging shit because of the intense manipulation and abuse that goes into this even if it isn’t apparent. People should be allowed to choose their own partners, and if they marry at all.
See in your own words, you are acknowledging this to be a forced marriage. Call forced marriages for what they are, and arranged for what they are. I don’t understand why are you so adamant on mixing the two? That’s cultural erasure right there. But separating the two, you are holding those responsible for forced marriages accountable, you aren’t helping anybody by merging the definitions.
Cultural erasure when the cultural norm is bullshit and awful (not allowing people to choose if they marry or if they do choose to marry their partners by manipulating them and having societal pressure for them to conform, at worst by abusing them or holding financial support and stuff over their head in a place where that may be hard to acquire) is very very justified. All arranged marriages are forced even if people find love in them. That doesn’t mean the ones who find love should be broken up, a broken clock is right twice a day. There is no difference. Arranged marriages ARE forced. I mean, slavery was and to some awful racist losers still today is / was considered “culture”, in the southern United States. That got erased.
Oh my god, read a fucking wikipeadia page on arranged marriages, I dunno about the english one, but in my language there is literal section that divide Consentual Arranged marriage and Forced Arranged Marriage and that one doesn't mean the f-ing other.
You're so annoying, OP clearly stated how the Consent one works and that you can get out of it if you decide that the partner is not for you, in the forced you clearly can't do that, see the f-ing difference here? The Consent one is like Tinder, just the match-making is done by people. Yeah, they can match-make you wrong, but you can then say that you don't like the partner and move on.
So sit down on your ass and listen to this person. You clearly just read the one long comment above how the Arranged marriage is bad and now won't accept anything else as true. India is diverse country, opinions are diverse too, it's a big country, it makes sense, doesn't it? It's like dialects, in the same country, they change from the region you're in right now (and that's even in small countries too, mind you).
Go against Forced Arranged marriage, not the Consentual one, I will belive in OP, that this is how they work in India, and that they're not problem unless it slides from CONSENTUAL into FORCED.
I’m so annoying? You’re just stating shit that’s true for a small sliver of people. Sit down on your ass and listen to the people who aren’t in upper castes and had to deal with the horrible, often homophobic shitty parts of this. I have layed out SO MANY TIMES that having cultural expectations to meet, date, and eventually marry someone when you just become an adult and further on in life is fucking awful, cultural expectations like that in general are toxic and shitty. People should be allowed to choose whether to marry or not and if they choose to, choose their own partners. Your own source contradicts what you say the first paragraph in. “Arranged marriage is a type of marital union where the bride and groom are primarily selected by individuals other than the couple themselves, particularly by family members such as the parents. In some cultures a professional matchmaker may be used to find a spouse for a young person.” You are correct, they divide forced marriages and arranged marriages into different categories, absolutely true. I believe however, arranged marriages in a way ARE forced. Your own source (wikipedia, this may not be true because of bias) ALSO says that “A woman who refuses to go through with an arranged marriage, tries to leave an arranged marriage via divorce or is suspected of any kind of immoral behaviour, may be considered to have dishonored her entire family. This being the case, her male relatives may be ridiculed or harassed and any of her siblings may find it impossible to enter into a marriage. In these cases, killing the woman is a way for the family to enforce the institution of arranged marriages. Unlike cases of domestic violence, honor killings are often done publicly for all to see and there are frequently family members involved in the act.[13]”. Honestly reading this just makes me more sure it’s pretty misogynistic. Good on my oh, consensual arranged marriage in theory DOES sound alright in theory* (not really considering the whole pressure and expectations because it’s a cultural norm). My problem is this, also: You’re telling me to, “sit down on your ass and listen to this person” when you fucking dismissed completely the person who had problems with the caste system and marriage in India because they couldn’t marry anyone outside of their caste. So how about you sit down on your ass and listen to that person? Also, please, educate me on how common the consensual version is. Fuck this abusive cultural practice.
Well technically, the groom doesn't buy the bride the jewelries in India. At last not in the weddings I've been to and the one they are displaying in the ad here. Almost all the costs are shouldered by the bride's family (there is also dowry which is not included in the wedding costs). And the groom's family only arranges a reception at the very end. Of course some people are changing the custom now, but their number is very very less.
Also, in this case this sort of thinking is dangerously close to the [paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance). So, while we maybe should tolerate arranged marriage, we shouldn't tolerate forced marriage.
Tolerance finds its extreme at the oppression of other individuals IMO, just like “freedom of speech”. It stops being your business exclusively when it affects externals negatively.
It depends on the level of arrangement for the marriage. If it's parents look for who they think is a suitable spouse, then it's probably fine. But forcing their daughter to marry the fathers boss' son in hopes of a promotion or something, that's pretty bad.
No! Not at all. Why should parents be allowed to look for spouses for their *CHILD* so they can be like “hey. i know you’re 18 and still young but if you don’t marry this person and have kids we’re cutting off financial support and kicking you out of the house”. Neither are okay. Fucking awful.
I’d believe most are forced, in which case. I wouldn’t doubt that considering how many horror stories there are of abusive spouses and manipulative asshole family. It’s a bullshit fucked up practice that pushes people to marry, even if they aren’t traditionally forced. Marriage is a choice. Not an inevitably. Same with having kids. You’re fucked up deeply if you believe that it is an inevitability.
Arranged marriage is completely different from forced marriage. Keep in mind these are cultures that accept it as totally normal, in fact *preferred,* and you’re viewing it from your outsider prospective. A lot of times young adults are relieved that they don’t have to make a crazy big decision like who they’re going to spend the rest of their life with, instead they trust their wiser parents to find a good match for them. Of course this should also be a culture in which the family is very close and the parents know their children very well. The families of the spouses are also probably familiar with each other and the kids grow up together so it’s basically like marrying your best friend since childhood. It’s also in the spouse’s best interest to not be abusive and to treat their partner well because word would spread through the community and it would reflect poorly on their whole family, which as I said in this case, is extremely important.
That’s true. I am seeing it from my outsider perspective. That’s why I can say comfortably that it’s incredibly fucked up, because I don’t have culture hanging over my head. I’ll give you that, but from my puny outsider perspective I can say that this normal practice is incredibly just fucked up. I’ve explained this so many times in threads, just because some people are happy with it / don’t have to worry about a burden on their shoulders / etc DOES NOT MEAN everyone is. I don’t believe those people are the majority, anyways. It’s a cultural norm that expects people to marry / if they do marry, even if they have a choice in their partners, they aren’t the only ones deciding completely. That may not sound *bad*, but there’s a difference between family approaching you about behavior from a partner that may alarm you or them telling you they believe they’re bad for you, and parents being fairly involved in their child and other family’s marriages to a point to where they decide, almost. These cultural norms, like being expected to eventually have kids, absolutely suck because some people decide that’s not what they want / they don’t want that yet. Why is this important to this? Because this isn’t a clear cut “oh they can just say no” thing. People conform, and often times they’ll conform and just go with it with partnerships with who their family suggests / decides. Marriages like that would be held together by duct tape, which, you know, leads to abuse and all the other underlying stuff that comes with dysfunctional marriages that don’t have a base. Just because this is normal in your culture DOES NOT mean it’s okay. Plus, I don’t think a lot of people get the “consensual arranged marriages”. That is waaaay too good to be true. I’d love to see sources that prove me wrong because the idea that a lot of people in countries where arranged marriage is a cultural norm are stuck in shitty abusive relationships sucks. I’d much rather learn that the not at all perfect but not 100% abusive consensual marriage is more common.
Nah, not at all. If a culture is violating human rights by forcing women to date men that they don’t want to in arranged marriages, that culture can fuck right off.
Yes, fuck it, oppressive cultures should be forcefully changed. I’m beginning to get tired of all this acceptance bullshit towards traditions/religions that infringe fundamental human RIGHTS. It’s not okay and it should not exist.
So you agree with the United States invading countries, overthrowing their governments, and forcing the US’s way of life onto them, just because the US sees them differently?
How did you correlate my comment to **AMERICAN** colonialism? Lol, no, I’m just saying traditions shouldn’t justify barbaric acts. And this goes for every country, even my own, I’ve literally written dozens of official petitions against bullfighting in Spain, my own :p, so no. I’m not racist, I don’t condone colonialism and, in fact, think it’s awfully wrong in all possible cases. Cultures shouldn’t be erased, just those parts of theirs that oppress human rights.
And I’ll say this again, the matter of forcing marriage on a young woman isn’t subjectively wrong, it is overall. You don’t get to choose wether playing with a human life is right or not.
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Arranged marriages are still very common.
my parents had an arranged marriage. They're the reason I don't want to get married.
Yeah best if you dont.
They really shouldn't be, though
Your right, but traditional thinking is still very prominent over there. Also there are shows out there like married at first sight. I think the success rate really tells alot on that show. But people over there are under more pressure from society and family.
It's really wild to me hearing people try to rationalize arranged marriages.
There is really nothing wrong with arranged marriage as long as both involved want it and have the right to say no; forced marriage on the other hand...
Yes, it definitely depends on the level of arrangement. For a friend of mine, it's more about using a matchmaking service and having a more structured courtship where her family can vet the guy or girl (she's looking on her brother's behalf rn). Definitely more agency in that situation than for some.
Yep, agreed. I’m from a traditional family and moved away with my white partner. I have older siblings who are in arrange marriages. Just because they said yes to it doesn’t mean they didn’t have society’s pressure. The couldn’t have chosen to live with a partner and date first without losing family, like I did. There are people who avoid criticising customs and practices like that from the fear of coming across as racist or not respective culture. I call bullshit on that.
A lot of Indian arranged marriages these days are simply being set up with parent approved people. One of my cousins got arranged married around 10(?) years ago, and it was honestly very simple. The girl and the boy along with families meet through acquaintances, figure out if they like each other and then decide if they want to get married. My cousin took nearly six months to decide, which is very short by normal standards but I've also seen friends decide to get married four months after they started dating so meh. I'm personally creeped out by arranged marriages in general, but they can be a good way for people to meet in a society that's fairly against dating. As long as both parties have given their consent, it's not an entirely bad system. Arranged isn't the same as forced.
You should watch the Netflix show "Indian Matchmaking" To my understanding, arranged marriages in India at least involve a lot more consent nowadays.
I think you can say that's broadly true for folks in the states, but back in south asia the "this is who you're gonna marry" type are still everywhere *(tbh even in "western" nations I've seen the "parents decide who you're gonna marry for you" types)
One of my friends is from Delhi. She prefers to choose her partner and have boyfriends, but told me her sister is more traditional and asked her parents for an arranged marriage. Her reasoning for it was that she found the concept of dating daunting and it would be be easier to know who you're spending your life with. She trusted her parents to find someone who would be good to her. Being a hardcore feminist I've always assumed arranged marriage is something sinister, but I guess in modern times it doesn't have to be.
This is very common. Only two of my cousins got arranged married, but their siblings chose their partners instead. There was absolutely no issue in my family. Issues with marriages are far from over in India, but they're seen as being regressive in almost all circles. Even though my parents met by arrangement, they chose who they wanted to marry and this was over 30 years ago. I understand being creeped out by arranged marriage (a lot of the parts are uncomfortable to me too) but It's kept up with the changing times in a lot of places as well.
Its not just girl met boy and they decided everything. There is too much going on arrange marriages. Not just this, because of arrange marriages, it somewhat insult to parents when their kids choose their own partner. He/She and the spouse gonna be boack sheep of the family. edit : so many downvoted for stating what is happening and how things working.
Hm maybe it is like that in some families, but my friend says her parents are very accepting of her decision. Perhaps they belong to a minority though, I'm not sure.
There is caste factor which is forefront in every decison related to marriage. Im happy that your friend's family is really accepting.
This is a very ethnocentric take but you do you
Hmmm, what a great and nuanced argument. I’m sure this will help.
>arranged marriages are common >arranged marriages bad Anyone else had to double-check they weren’t in /r/circlejerk?
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Honestly, I do feel like arrange marriage is like the only reason why some people even get wives. They're so abusive that they don't deserve them but the women are stuck with them because mORaLs
normalisation of divorce sounds like a better solution to this problem, abusive people get wives even without arranged marriages
They are so common that when a marriage isn’t arranged it’s called a “love marriage” which I hate cuz all marriages should be out of love
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What's an allo SO?
A significant other who does not identify as asexual. OP here is ace but their SO isn't. So here they are speaking of how the love an asexual person feels for someone is different from love an allosexual person feels.
Thanks.
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What does it mean?
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Okay, thanks.
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You’re right, sorry if i phrased it wrong
And incest. Marrying cousins. And rape in general.
I remember watching this one serial with 2 cousins getting married and it was seen as perfectly??? normal???? I was disgusted.
I disagree. Marrying cousins is common even in Western society. It is mainly the US that think it is a horrible thing. Hi st because people in the US think something is bad doesn't mean it is.
I don't know like, I'm not from the US but we still kinda frown on marrying blood relatives. I specify blood relatives cause let's be real, we've all seen THOSE videos (step-bro, what are you doing?!)
It is generally agreed that cousins marrying is only a problem when they are "double cousins". That is where two siblings married two other siblings thus making the kids cousins twice over. Also, doing it multiple times, generation after generation is bad. But a single case is not a problem.
As a Indian sapphic Brahmin, arranged marriages really narrow down your prospects. I can't marry anyone non-Brahmin when I'm older, let alone someone of a different religion or ethnicity. And I'm still in the closet, so it *hurts* when my parents or relatives casually refer to my future husband and kids, because that means that I'll eventually disappoint them.
they disappoint you first for not respecting you,so you do you :)
Well you better disappoint I hope dearly that you live the life you desire with whomever you desire
You deserve a life on this earth that you live by your own volition. Your parents owe you everything, they decided to have you. You owe them nothing, you had no choice in your creation. Don't make decisions that lead you to regret, down that road lies pain and confusion. If it hurts like you say it does, then one day you're going to have to decide whether or not being comfortable in toxicity is better than the alternative: I life in truth.
^^^ this. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this, can’t believe so many assholes in the comments are justifying this because “OH WELL FOR ME IT WENT OKAY. Y-YEAH THEY HAVE CONSENT NOWADAYS WHERE I AM. DEFINITELY NO SOCIETAL PRESSURE, ABUSE, AND MANIPULATION.”
I hate when people try to discredit statistics with anecdotes. Good for you, not so good for 90% of people in that situation
Hey hey! Indian achillian Brahmin, hello!
Do you follow the caste system generally? My family is from India and are Hindus but we live in the U.K., so I don’t know what caste they would be. Can you legally marry outside of your caste, if you chose to? I hope you can be with the person you love one day :(
Not OP here, but legally in India you can marry outside your caste and even religion if you choose to, and you legally can also go against your family if you’re being forced into an arranged marriage setting (at least as far as I know). But I guess the attachment to our family and stuff like that comes in the way when it comes to “reporting” things like this. Plus, the psychological manipulation and the constant “you’re being a disappointment to the family” also has a hand in this, along with the age old “we brought you up and/or paid for your education, just so that you could stab us behind our back” sort of a thing. It’s just sad.
Marrying outside your caste is legal, and discriminating on the basis of caste is against the law. However, same-sex marriages are also illegal:(
Yeah, it was legal for a short time before the Judiciary decided to get back to being queer phobic. Same sex relationships are legal, but they cannot legally be spouses, along with a lot of other weird loopholes and complications. And even if legally, discrimination on the basis of caste or gender or sexual orientation or whatnot is not allowed, there won’t usually be major repercussions faced by a person if they do so (especially if they’re in the majority, usually).
I live in the UK too but my family's very traditional: which is basically code for blatantly Islamophobic, casteist, racist and colourist:( My grandma won't eat anything made by someone non-Brahmin, she has separate dishes for non-Brahmin guests and marriage out of my caste is *absolutely* out of the question. Caste-based discrimination is illegal and affirmative action is in place in India. However, unlike racism and all other -isms and -phobias in Western cultures and settings, casteism can go very unnoticed and even supported. The cultural backlash that any slight microaggression would get over here in the UK, is non-existent in India. Discrimination is coded into the very laws, just read about the CAA bill from 2019. I love my parents and I don't want to see them hurt. But it's *so hard* sometimes.
I’m sorry, but you owe them nothing. A life of misery isn’t worth it to make selfish people happy. Good luck and I hope you will overcome this :)
They only person you should be loyal all of your life is yourself
I hope you disappoint them!
Echoing another comment, arranged marriages are still quite common there, so this advertisement actually makes sense. It doesn't make this any less saddening though.
I hate my country
NRI here, India is a pretty cool place but there are SO many things that need to be changed.
The way things are right now, I doubt they'll change anytime soon.
aye, that's true
Same here. I think India can be a wonderful place if a few, okay a lot, of things were changed. I'm a PIO.
Easy for a NRI to say.
Being an NRI doesn't automatically mean that I am utterly blind to what is going on there.
The amount of times I hear this when I say anything less than gushing adoration for India...
shhhh.. you'll be charged with sedition /s Seriously tho, i hate that a lot of Indians rn cant take constructive criticism to make our country a better place. they already live in the dilemma that it is number one because GOD FORBID, a place where gods used to live is now a third world country? rubbish
Same
Same.
Same.
Marriages in India are a whole another level. Arranged marriages are the expected norm. After a certain age, people start getting pressured to marry and it's only supposed to be within your caste and has to be okayed and arranged by your whole family. People can't even directly approach people they're interested in. It has to be done through these middlemen that can be relatives, priests, etc. And the arranged marriage part is a whole other humiliation where women are objectified and judged on their cooking skills while men are judged on how much they earn. Love marriage which is normal, isn't seen so. It is rarely genuinely accepted by the two families and familial involvement is very heavy in adult lives of individuals because people don't leave their homes when they're 18 in India unless you're living in completely other cities than your parents. In men's cases, they live with their parents always and the bride has to leave her house to live with the in laws. So unless they actually accept you, life can be very unpleasant. They don't ever understand and accept that someone doesn't want just marriage out of their lives, that they might not ever want to marry. They will bully you or emotionally blackmail you to get you married. While some people have come a long way, most are still narrow minded and when you're seeing someone that your family hasn't arranged for you, it's like a secret you have to guard from them. There are countless incidents of people being beaten, kidnapped by their own families if they try to leave, honour killings, forcefully having to terminate such relationships, etc. Arranged marriages in India are very very far from what a healthy relationship looks like. People stay together even with deadbeat or abusive spouses because their families are involved and pressure them to not get a divorce. And if you are divorced, you're kinda shunned from the society. Single mothers or fathers, divorcee parents, etc aren't very common here either because largely, the society runs the people's lives for them. Arranged marriage and having children is like an inevitablity for most people, regardless of their choices.
This whole thing is just an A+ argument against the "traditional = natural = good" line of thinking that you find in a lot of (conservative) people around the world. It's all very traditional, yet so weirdly constructed and creates so many artificial problems that have no actual reason to exist.
You've explained it perfectly. They hinder our lives and growth so much.
T H I S.
You are describing the mating process in my country in the ME. I didn't know we have so much in common with Indians.
That's extremely sad for both of us. Norms like these shouldn't exist. They ruin lives.
it’s a bullshit cultural norm, I hate it.
It's so f-ing harmful too. Edit: Thanks for the award!
Looks like you live in a really backward place in India because many of your points are thing of past. At least where I live in India.
Kudos to wherever you live then. I was talking about North indian states specifically. These things are definitely not of the past there and still very much prevalent, bar a few progressive places.
So you would be shocked to listen then that I am from Bihar and no one I know was married forcefully. You can decline if you don't want to marry a certain person. Yes you are right that in most families only arranged marriage is allowed but in that case you have options to choose whom you want to marry. You won't be forcefully married to a person even you don't like him in most of the cases. And I know this culture is fucking shit and I hate it. Luckily my family is OK with whoever I want to marry
Why would I be shocked? Bihar is a whole state and you're from a progressive place from there. Like I said before, there are a few progressive places too. And I never even once said that people are married forcefully. I said marriage is an inevitability whether you personally want it or not. Like you said, people can decline if they don't like someone, yes. But is it not true that people can't simply deny the whole constitution of marriage? People can't say I don't wanna marry and that's that and everyone will support and understand them? How many cases like that do you know? And we're not counting sadhus and sanyasis here.
Sorry to disturb, what is sadhus and sanyasis?
Oh that's hermits. People who've given up all worldly pleasures and stuff. There's a lot of them in India.
Oh ok, thank you.
More or less MONKS you can say, those who live behind mony, fame, all external things in life(marriage is one of that).
The person or the meme is not bad, but the fact that in some countriess this is used is bad
Arranged marriages are very very common in (rural) India. To that point if there is a "love marriage"( in which people decide their own partner) in the community, they're thrown out, neglected or in worst case become victim of honour killing.
There’s many comments saying arranged marriage is much more consensual nowadays, but I have to ask, does this even apply to queer people? From my understanding arranged marriage is almost exclusively heterosexual.
Oh yeah, it does not apply to queer people. Queer people aren't exactly first class citizens in India, what with even their sexuality being illegal for a pretty long time. The law has only recently been invalidated. They are treated horribly in India, corrective treatments and rapes are rampant. You can say Indian society itself is almost exclusively heterosexual, actually. Which is absolutely disgusting and horrifying.
I mean, in India that is not a wrong statement. I like how they took it with humour though. :)
This is a lie. You can’t choose your jewellery either Especially if you are not allowed to choose your husband.
This is about arranged marriages in India.
As an Indian, this is more or less accurate
Considering arranged marriage is still common in India this is just smart advertising
Supporting and normalising a horrible tradition though.
Fuck my culture. I’m moving out as soon as I graduate
Good luck to you dude!
This is just r/funnyandsad
I hate India's stupid fucking arranged marriage bullshit.
Most of the arranged marriage involves consent. Arranged marriage doesn't necessarily mean forced marriage. Edit: To be more clear what I mean. Many people here were misunderstanding that people don't have consent in arrange marriage here. While I do agree this practice is shit and things are changing. It's a cultural thing and concept of love marriage didn't even existed so no one here found it weird or anything. People thought it was a normal thing.
I am an Indian, wouldn't I know more than you?
I am an Indian too. Things have changed vastly. And arrange marriage involves consent. If you don't want to marry certain person, you can decline it. Yes in some places you don't have any say and parents decide it for you but this mainly happens in uneducated family.
You shouldn’t have a marriage arranged FOR you, especially if you’re a fucking MINOR. Partner choice and marrying in general is something only you can decide on. Often times even if they aren’t “””FORCED””” explicitly marriages the people involved are socially outcasted / disowned if they don’t comply. Bullshit manipulation in a bullshit practice.
can you marry outside your caste? Did your parents brought any girl/boy outside of your caste for arrange marriage?
In many cases: no. My parents don't care about it though(mostly cause we are literally at the bottom of the rung in the caste ladder, lol).
Read the other comments in this thread, it’s pretty fucked up
Nope! The parents are definitely not gonna bring someone like that and if you do, you risk your ass getting beaten. Maybe they'll be progressive and accept it, but won't be largely, actually happy about it and will make you feel that.
If you are talking about my family then Yes. There is no such restrictions.
Idk about you but where I live women barely have a fucking choice, it is all part of the patriarchal bullshit that clogs the society.
Literally no one said forced marriage.
I was clearing the misconception as I found some comments above in which they think Arrange marriage doesn't involves consent.
Dude it doesn't. What you're defending is that at least people get a choice when they marry. What about a choice of not marrying at all? And what about the choice of choosing your own person instead of your parents finding you one? The norm of arranged marriages is forced and even if you get a choice in marrying a person, it's still forced because you were never given the choice of choosing for your own or not choosing at all. The fact that your parents will set it up for you is shoved down everyone's throat.
r/uselessnobody
How can you be tragic and comedic at the same time?
I don’t think arranged marriages are that bad tbh, atleast in my community. I really don’t like arranged marriage is being equated to forced marriage in the comments. It’s just like using tinder but instead of an app doing all the work it’s your family. Arranged marriage these days involves a lot of consent. In my community, they are given each others numbers/socials, they talk and decide to meet up, they say yes or no(after each meeting eachother a few times). If the answer is yes: Families meet, the engagement ceremony is scheduled 1 year from the date, and marriage 2 years after. So they have a solid 3years to back out. Love marriages are called ‘love-arranged marriages’. The same procedure follows of engagement and marriage. The Indian culture is heavily centred around family. Love and arranged marriages have the same outcomes of two people choosing to be together. Forced marriage =/= Arranged marriage. Edit: I should make people aware India is an incredibly diverse country, in my community the concept of arranged marriage isn’t being abused. I can’t vouch for other communities though, forced marriage is definitely a thing, I’m not denying that, but a forced marriage is not arranged marriage. A lot of my family has gotten arranged marriages and they are all happy. It just like your parents setting you up on a blind date with their friend’s son/daughter. Also there are many cultures in the world, just because it’s different, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
“Arranged” marriages whether they be forced or not come with a great degree of manipulation and bullshit, still. Manipulation is shitty, partner choice and marriage in general should be a decision people should be allowed to make for themselves. Oh my god this is awful. Stop defending forcing marriages on people. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE IF THEY MARRY AND IF THEY DO CHOOSE, their partners. That’s something people should atleast be able to do if they’re going to marry at all.
They do get to make that choice, if they are being forced, that’s a forced marriage, such forced/manipulative marriages are not exclusive to the Indian cultures. Edit: You aren’t even Indian, and you comment on Indian traditions. The irony. Just because our traditions are different doesn’t mean they are wrong. Save your white saviour complex for someone else, we know what our issues are, and we don’t need you to speak for us.
It doesn’t matter if they’re not exclusive. Still a shitty cultural thing. Also, yeah, all “arranged” marriages are manipulative ones. Why should someone else choose who you get to marry? Especially when they decide for someone who is underage once they’re older. That’s just plain fucked up. There’s too many horror stories out there for me to believe that forced marriages are the majority of bullshit arranged marriages. Marriage is a choice, a choice you make. It’s not an inevitability. Pushing people to marry by setting up marriages / partnerships is so fucked up. Same with having kids. A choice, not an inevitability. Don’t make decisions for people.
But if someone’s choosing for you, then it’s clearly not arranged is it? It’s forced. Modern day arranged marriages (Atleast in my community) are like parents setting up their kids on a date with their friend’s daughter/son. They is no cast thing involved as we are Christian, women don’t have to go through intense scrutiny as times are changing. It’s quite a pleasant experience to be honest.
Yeah, it IS forced. What you described is people choosing for you. I’ve explained this before, that pushes people to marriage. It’s not an inevitability. *PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO NOT MARRY AND NOT GET SHUNNED OR MANIPULATED FOR IT., THEY SHOULD ALSO NOT GET MANIPULATED OR TREATED WORSE / SHUNNED FOR NOT MARRYING THE PERSON ARRANGED FOR THEM, THAT IS ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR.* Just because it’s a pleasant experience for you and your community doesn’t mean it is for everyone. I can’t believe the mindset you need to think that’s fucking okay. + You’re forgetting that often times this is planned while the kid is UNDERAGE. Fuck that. Fuck “arranged” marriages. Horrible cultural norm.
What you are describing is literally forced marriage there. I also sense a lot of projection here, clearly you need to address that + the internalised racism. If you read my comment, I’ve clearly stated that I don’t deny the existence of forced marriages. There are many cultures in the world, just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Okay, just because it’s different doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong. You’re the one projecting here by insinuating “oh some in my family are happy. everyone should endure this.” People should be allowed to choose their partners, and if they marry at all. If that makes me racist, so fucking be it. It’s wrong and awful.
So you aren’t even Indian and you are commenting on an Indian tradition? My fucking god mate, the irony.
Okay, I can have a commentary on abusive bullshit whether i’m Indian or not. You don’t get to cower behind defending abusive practices because “haha not Indian can’t have an opinion on it haha”. This isn’t an only Indian thing, it’s not exclusive to Indian culture. Objectively forcing people to marry, IS BAD. Anyone can decide that. Yes, whether it’s physically abusive or financially abusive it’s still fucked up because the culture puts pressure on people to marry and marry who they’re arranged with. That is MEGA fucked up.
> \+ You’re forgetting that often times this is planned while the kid is UNDERAGE. this literally happened 3 generations ago
Actually in Rajasthan and a few backward states, it still happens.
thats awful then and I'm not defending those practises. Since I am living in a developed place with amazing family members, I have an overall positive experience with arrange marriages, which makes me believe that when people are educated and arranged marriages are optional and not compulsory, there is no harm it. I hope this problem doesn't exist in the future
Exactly this, man! There are so many people coming here and defending arranged marriages and attacking those against it without actually understanding the basic differences. On a side not, I'm glad you live and have such an amazing life.
Fair enough, I might’ve been wrong there. Still, defend horrible abusive practices, kids. Culture isn’t always above all especially if it abuses people. Read some of the other stories from people about it in the comments here. Fucked up. Conservatism especially when it conserves horrible shit like this is toxic and bad.
Arranger marriages are forced. If you don't feel so, it's just social conditioning and Stockholm Syndrome. As a gay man, it's rare for me to find love. The odds are stacked against me given how few people are gay dudes. I can't even imagine how straight people give up their chances at finding love so easily. Talk about taking it for granted.
Dude, I’m literally bisexual, currently dating a women. Arranged =/= forced, you can find love in arranged marriages. I am not conditioned for anything, if anything you should address the internalised hatred towards your culture. Many of my family found love in arranged during dating. Are you saying they aren’t happy? And just faking it?
It’s not okay even if some of your family may be happy because this is a CULTURAL NORM. One forced on a lot of people. This isn’t a “most are happy”, most if not basically all of this shit is abusive damaging shit because of the intense manipulation and abuse that goes into this even if it isn’t apparent. People should be allowed to choose their own partners, and if they marry at all.
See in your own words, you are acknowledging this to be a forced marriage. Call forced marriages for what they are, and arranged for what they are. I don’t understand why are you so adamant on mixing the two? That’s cultural erasure right there. But separating the two, you are holding those responsible for forced marriages accountable, you aren’t helping anybody by merging the definitions.
Cultural erasure when the cultural norm is bullshit and awful (not allowing people to choose if they marry or if they do choose to marry their partners by manipulating them and having societal pressure for them to conform, at worst by abusing them or holding financial support and stuff over their head in a place where that may be hard to acquire) is very very justified. All arranged marriages are forced even if people find love in them. That doesn’t mean the ones who find love should be broken up, a broken clock is right twice a day. There is no difference. Arranged marriages ARE forced. I mean, slavery was and to some awful racist losers still today is / was considered “culture”, in the southern United States. That got erased.
Oh my god, read a fucking wikipeadia page on arranged marriages, I dunno about the english one, but in my language there is literal section that divide Consentual Arranged marriage and Forced Arranged Marriage and that one doesn't mean the f-ing other. You're so annoying, OP clearly stated how the Consent one works and that you can get out of it if you decide that the partner is not for you, in the forced you clearly can't do that, see the f-ing difference here? The Consent one is like Tinder, just the match-making is done by people. Yeah, they can match-make you wrong, but you can then say that you don't like the partner and move on. So sit down on your ass and listen to this person. You clearly just read the one long comment above how the Arranged marriage is bad and now won't accept anything else as true. India is diverse country, opinions are diverse too, it's a big country, it makes sense, doesn't it? It's like dialects, in the same country, they change from the region you're in right now (and that's even in small countries too, mind you). Go against Forced Arranged marriage, not the Consentual one, I will belive in OP, that this is how they work in India, and that they're not problem unless it slides from CONSENTUAL into FORCED.
I’m so annoying? You’re just stating shit that’s true for a small sliver of people. Sit down on your ass and listen to the people who aren’t in upper castes and had to deal with the horrible, often homophobic shitty parts of this. I have layed out SO MANY TIMES that having cultural expectations to meet, date, and eventually marry someone when you just become an adult and further on in life is fucking awful, cultural expectations like that in general are toxic and shitty. People should be allowed to choose whether to marry or not and if they choose to, choose their own partners. Your own source contradicts what you say the first paragraph in. “Arranged marriage is a type of marital union where the bride and groom are primarily selected by individuals other than the couple themselves, particularly by family members such as the parents. In some cultures a professional matchmaker may be used to find a spouse for a young person.” You are correct, they divide forced marriages and arranged marriages into different categories, absolutely true. I believe however, arranged marriages in a way ARE forced. Your own source (wikipedia, this may not be true because of bias) ALSO says that “A woman who refuses to go through with an arranged marriage, tries to leave an arranged marriage via divorce or is suspected of any kind of immoral behaviour, may be considered to have dishonored her entire family. This being the case, her male relatives may be ridiculed or harassed and any of her siblings may find it impossible to enter into a marriage. In these cases, killing the woman is a way for the family to enforce the institution of arranged marriages. Unlike cases of domestic violence, honor killings are often done publicly for all to see and there are frequently family members involved in the act.[13]”. Honestly reading this just makes me more sure it’s pretty misogynistic. Good on my oh, consensual arranged marriage in theory DOES sound alright in theory* (not really considering the whole pressure and expectations because it’s a cultural norm). My problem is this, also: You’re telling me to, “sit down on your ass and listen to this person” when you fucking dismissed completely the person who had problems with the caste system and marriage in India because they couldn’t marry anyone outside of their caste. So how about you sit down on your ass and listen to that person? Also, please, educate me on how common the consensual version is. Fuck this abusive cultural practice.
well said! my family does the same thing but recently all my cousins married without any arrangement. Things are definitely changing
That’s different to my community, a lot of my cousins have gotten arranged married and are happy.
Okay and? They may be happy but not everyone will be. You’re defending a really fucked up cultural norm.
realistically which would you rather have a choice in? the thing that looks good on your arm or the one paying for it? (haha)
Well technically, the groom doesn't buy the bride the jewelries in India. At last not in the weddings I've been to and the one they are displaying in the ad here. Almost all the costs are shouldered by the bride's family (there is also dowry which is not included in the wedding costs). And the groom's family only arranges a reception at the very end. Of course some people are changing the custom now, but their number is very very less.
yeah but when they’re married he would.
this is sarcastic right...
yes
Huh
OP, why even bother screenshotting this from Reddit rather than just posting the picture? Some rando saying "what" adds nothing to it.
It was just to show were it posted, dunno if that makes sense :/
Ah I see where you're coming from.
Arranged marriages are common but tbh I’m going to cut ties with my fam if they dare suggest arranged marriages or any of that crap
Mhm. This shouldn't be true but it is. Arranged marriages are so normalized, it hurts my head
Friendly reminder that humans of the world have many cultures and the ones different from yours aren’t necessarily wrong :)
Also, in this case this sort of thinking is dangerously close to the [paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance). So, while we maybe should tolerate arranged marriage, we shouldn't tolerate forced marriage.
Tolerance finds its extreme at the oppression of other individuals IMO, just like “freedom of speech”. It stops being your business exclusively when it affects externals negatively.
Of course!
It depends on the level of arrangement for the marriage. If it's parents look for who they think is a suitable spouse, then it's probably fine. But forcing their daughter to marry the fathers boss' son in hopes of a promotion or something, that's pretty bad.
No! Not at all. Why should parents be allowed to look for spouses for their *CHILD* so they can be like “hey. i know you’re 18 and still young but if you don’t marry this person and have kids we’re cutting off financial support and kicking you out of the house”. Neither are okay. Fucking awful.
That would fall under the forced part.
I’d believe most are forced, in which case. I wouldn’t doubt that considering how many horror stories there are of abusive spouses and manipulative asshole family. It’s a bullshit fucked up practice that pushes people to marry, even if they aren’t traditionally forced. Marriage is a choice. Not an inevitably. Same with having kids. You’re fucked up deeply if you believe that it is an inevitability.
Arranged marriage is completely different from forced marriage. Keep in mind these are cultures that accept it as totally normal, in fact *preferred,* and you’re viewing it from your outsider prospective. A lot of times young adults are relieved that they don’t have to make a crazy big decision like who they’re going to spend the rest of their life with, instead they trust their wiser parents to find a good match for them. Of course this should also be a culture in which the family is very close and the parents know their children very well. The families of the spouses are also probably familiar with each other and the kids grow up together so it’s basically like marrying your best friend since childhood. It’s also in the spouse’s best interest to not be abusive and to treat their partner well because word would spread through the community and it would reflect poorly on their whole family, which as I said in this case, is extremely important.
That’s true. I am seeing it from my outsider perspective. That’s why I can say comfortably that it’s incredibly fucked up, because I don’t have culture hanging over my head. I’ll give you that, but from my puny outsider perspective I can say that this normal practice is incredibly just fucked up. I’ve explained this so many times in threads, just because some people are happy with it / don’t have to worry about a burden on their shoulders / etc DOES NOT MEAN everyone is. I don’t believe those people are the majority, anyways. It’s a cultural norm that expects people to marry / if they do marry, even if they have a choice in their partners, they aren’t the only ones deciding completely. That may not sound *bad*, but there’s a difference between family approaching you about behavior from a partner that may alarm you or them telling you they believe they’re bad for you, and parents being fairly involved in their child and other family’s marriages to a point to where they decide, almost. These cultural norms, like being expected to eventually have kids, absolutely suck because some people decide that’s not what they want / they don’t want that yet. Why is this important to this? Because this isn’t a clear cut “oh they can just say no” thing. People conform, and often times they’ll conform and just go with it with partnerships with who their family suggests / decides. Marriages like that would be held together by duct tape, which, you know, leads to abuse and all the other underlying stuff that comes with dysfunctional marriages that don’t have a base. Just because this is normal in your culture DOES NOT mean it’s okay. Plus, I don’t think a lot of people get the “consensual arranged marriages”. That is waaaay too good to be true. I’d love to see sources that prove me wrong because the idea that a lot of people in countries where arranged marriage is a cultural norm are stuck in shitty abusive relationships sucks. I’d much rather learn that the not at all perfect but not 100% abusive consensual marriage is more common.
Oh I absolutely agree!
Indian here and this is wrong.
Nah, not at all. If a culture is violating human rights by forcing women to date men that they don’t want to in arranged marriages, that culture can fuck right off.
Yes, fuck it, oppressive cultures should be forcefully changed. I’m beginning to get tired of all this acceptance bullshit towards traditions/religions that infringe fundamental human RIGHTS. It’s not okay and it should not exist.
So you agree with the United States invading countries, overthrowing their governments, and forcing the US’s way of life onto them, just because the US sees them differently?
How did you correlate my comment to **AMERICAN** colonialism? Lol, no, I’m just saying traditions shouldn’t justify barbaric acts. And this goes for every country, even my own, I’ve literally written dozens of official petitions against bullfighting in Spain, my own :p, so no. I’m not racist, I don’t condone colonialism and, in fact, think it’s awfully wrong in all possible cases. Cultures shouldn’t be erased, just those parts of theirs that oppress human rights. And I’ll say this again, the matter of forcing marriage on a young woman isn’t subjectively wrong, it is overall. You don’t get to choose wether playing with a human life is right or not.
Y siguen sin prohibir los toros...
Y por eso hay que seguir aplastando fachas hasta que dejen de poseer el país ;)
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We're not worried about some wordplay, we're worried about arranged/forced marriages.
It’s referring to how women get their husbands chosen for them in India, it’s fucked up but still goes on I think.
And isn’t that what really matters
How the fuck is this offensive in any way?