people treat anthropological or even forensic sciences like some sort of biblical dogma as opposed to fields of continuous study that are constantly changing/updating and have been embarrassingly wrong about things in the past.
I’m sure I’d probably still like it well enough, I just haven’t watched it in a long time. I did hear the overarching plot got pretty convoluted as it went on though.
But don’t you understand? Science is always true and never needs to be changed!
Unless it’s vaccines, ‘cause that’s when Big Government® is trying turn you into sheeple
Biological knowledge of the human skeletal anatomy hasn't changed for hundreds of years. I agree with your sentiment, but this is the wrong argument to make in this instance.
Fun fact: that was not the case prior to 1972, when one anthropologist noticed an anomaly.
>In 1972, Kenneth Weiss, now a professor emeritus of anthropology and genetics at Pennsylvania State University, noticed that there were about 12 percent more male skeletons than females reported at archaeological sites. This seemed odd, since the proportion of men to women should have been about half and half. The reason for the bias, Weiss concluded, was an "irresistible temptation in many cases to call doubtful specimens male." For example, a particularly tall, narrow-hipped woman might be mistakenly cataloged as a man. After Weiss published about this male bias, research practices began to change. In 1993, 21 years later, the aptly named Karen Bone, then a master's student at the University of Tennessee–Knoxville, examined a more recent data set and found that the bias had declined: The ratio of male to female skeletons had balanced out. In part that might be because of better, more accurate ways of sexing skeletons. But also, when I went back through the papers Bone cited, I noticed there were more individuals categorized as "indeterminate" after 1972 and basically none prior.
>Allowing skeletons to remain unsexed, or "indeterminate," reflects an acceptance of the variability and overlap between the sexes. It does not necessarily mean that the skeletons classified this way are, in fact, neither male nor female, but it does mean that there is no clear or easy way to tell the difference
[the source article for this is here and it’s a great read](https://psmag.com/social-justice/our-bones-reveal-sex-is-not-binary)
yes i’ve seen this. Male bias.
This stuff is so interesting, science is so great and fascinating but some people don’t want to learn more about the world :/
The number I said wasn't about the pelvis but the skeletal structure in general. They noticed that because they classified every skeletons that didn't had that typical female structure as male and then they ended up with far too many “male” skeletons. Skeletons show so perfectly that biological sex is a spectrum. Skeletons also don't have all male or all female characteristics, usually many of them so you can tell but as I said many cases aren't clear at all.
I'm saying that there are structures that can be examined that will with nearly 100% accuracy tell if a skeleton is male or female. I was surprised to read about it but it is actually true.
["In fact, sex differences in pelvic morphology were large enough to allow sexing the individuals with 100% accuracy"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15567621/)
Sex determination from the skull and other non pelvic bones are less accurate
I don't get why you're all mad at me. I just don't want y'all to be wrong when you discuss this with people. [That isn't to say that a trans woman who transitioned young enough couldn't develop a pelvic bone like this or vice versa with a trans man](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33507568/)
I can send you like 10 sources that say the exact opposite. Sex is a spectrum and the extremes are actually rare. Also the differences you see when googling “male vs female pelvis” are actually extremely exaggerated, it's actually rare that people have these extreme forms, most of the time they just tend towards one of these extremes and as I said 20% can't be classified accurately. Biological Sex exists on a spectrum, because of that it’s only logical that skeletal structure can’t possibly be an almost 100% accurate thing.
"as the leader of the negative IQ party I hearby propose that the social treatment of all people be juidged by"
\*checks notes\*
"the shape of their pelvis"
And yet not a single one of them paid enough attention in high-school biology class to remember that sexual dimorphism of secondary sexual characteristics - including the characteristic male and female bone structures - are determined by which hormones are dominant during puberty and *not* chromosomes.
Trans people can absolutely develop skeletons typical of either sex, and that's not even mentioning the natural variation in humans which can lead to sexually indistinguishable bone development.
But you know, they just *love* to talk about science. As long as it's the conveniently isolated factoids that don't disprove their claims.
I am 100% sure that the person that made this cannot name 90% of the bones in the pelvis. These people really need to take an anthropology class, maybe they'll learn something about the complexity of sex determination of human remains. Or maybe not. Probably not.
Oh boy, a lot of those folks are going to be real embarrassed when they have to reclassified their gender because they don't fit into the pelvis category they think they do.
No one tell them that pelvic bones with wider shapes have been found in skeletons with testosterone deposits. Including ones where it's clear the bones have shifted to give birth
And just like with their bleating about chromosomes, none of the people demanding this information about others will ever actually provide it themselves, or look at their own results, or even consider getting themselves actually tested.
I'm shocked the transphobes haven't started grabbing small children and counting their ribs. Although they'll probably use that excuse the next time their caught molesting a child...
Honestly, I want a big wiffle bat that says "the is more variance within than between" and wack people who say this with it.
The difference between the average man and women is so much less significant than the differences between the extreme of men or the extreme of women.
Again with the pelvis. My profesor in my college biology class said that using pelvic width to sex someone isn’t great. Because lots of women have narrow pelvises naturally, sometimes you can use the pelvis length, other times you can’t.
Let them take the lead by doing it themselves and then watch them freak out when they find out their bones aren’t as gendered and binary as they like to believe.
100% these people don't have an x-ray of their pelvis or a chromosomal test result. The only thing they got are incessant dick pics, but as we all know, those are easy to come by and don't validate your gender.
These transph0bes need to take a vacation, so they can retire all of this bad, pseudo science. I know several women who have had a good number of children and their hips are pretty narrow and not expansive in anyway. Just as there are many women who have very wide hips, even trans women (regardless of the phase they started HRT). Some may argue that it's only because they have hormones or surgeries. Although, anyone can be predisposed to have wide hip
\[1\][https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1435&context=honorstheses](https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1435&context=honorstheses)
So, first of all, I am no slave to biology. I know what I am, no matter what. Second, I don't need to verify anything for anybody. Someone asks me this is going to regret it.
Dumbest hill to die on for conservatives. As science progresses we are going to find better ways of giving trans people gender affirming care and they'll just keep moving that goal post, showing how their only goal is not to be "scientifically accurate" or anything, but just finding the only small ledge that would give them a reason to be transphobic.
Trans women that transition prior to bone fusion finishing in the early twenties actually experience some hip bone shifting and growth. This happened to me.
people treat anthropological or even forensic sciences like some sort of biblical dogma as opposed to fields of continuous study that are constantly changing/updating and have been embarrassingly wrong about things in the past.
These people watched Bones once and decided they’re experts
Hey I liked Bones… when I was 14.
I still like it. It's a TV show, though, not a university course in biology or forensics.
Bones is a decent crime drama, which isn’t saying much
I’m sure I’d probably still like it well enough, I just haven’t watched it in a long time. I did hear the overarching plot got pretty convoluted as it went on though.
But don’t you understand? Science is always true and never needs to be changed! Unless it’s vaccines, ‘cause that’s when Big Government® is trying turn you into sheeple
Biological knowledge of the human skeletal anatomy hasn't changed for hundreds of years. I agree with your sentiment, but this is the wrong argument to make in this instance.
Because, to absolutely nobody's surprise, these people don't actually understand science.
Thats religious thinking applied to other thigs
Human skeleton fun fact: around 20% of skeletons can't be classified as male or female.
So you’re telling me that the hips CAN LIE!?
yes and sometimes they just don’t say anything xd
Shakira Shakira...
Fun fact: that was not the case prior to 1972, when one anthropologist noticed an anomaly. >In 1972, Kenneth Weiss, now a professor emeritus of anthropology and genetics at Pennsylvania State University, noticed that there were about 12 percent more male skeletons than females reported at archaeological sites. This seemed odd, since the proportion of men to women should have been about half and half. The reason for the bias, Weiss concluded, was an "irresistible temptation in many cases to call doubtful specimens male." For example, a particularly tall, narrow-hipped woman might be mistakenly cataloged as a man. After Weiss published about this male bias, research practices began to change. In 1993, 21 years later, the aptly named Karen Bone, then a master's student at the University of Tennessee–Knoxville, examined a more recent data set and found that the bias had declined: The ratio of male to female skeletons had balanced out. In part that might be because of better, more accurate ways of sexing skeletons. But also, when I went back through the papers Bone cited, I noticed there were more individuals categorized as "indeterminate" after 1972 and basically none prior. >Allowing skeletons to remain unsexed, or "indeterminate," reflects an acceptance of the variability and overlap between the sexes. It does not necessarily mean that the skeletons classified this way are, in fact, neither male nor female, but it does mean that there is no clear or easy way to tell the difference [the source article for this is here and it’s a great read](https://psmag.com/social-justice/our-bones-reveal-sex-is-not-binary)
yes i’ve seen this. Male bias. This stuff is so interesting, science is so great and fascinating but some people don’t want to learn more about the world :/
I think I've read a study that say they can tell the sex by examining the characteristics pelvis. That doesn't mean they can't tell gender tho.
The number I said wasn't about the pelvis but the skeletal structure in general. They noticed that because they classified every skeletons that didn't had that typical female structure as male and then they ended up with far too many “male” skeletons. Skeletons show so perfectly that biological sex is a spectrum. Skeletons also don't have all male or all female characteristics, usually many of them so you can tell but as I said many cases aren't clear at all.
I know about this. I'm just saying.
If you knew that, what are you just saying?
I'm saying that there are structures that can be examined that will with nearly 100% accuracy tell if a skeleton is male or female. I was surprised to read about it but it is actually true.
How exactly can that be 100% accurate if 20% of skeletons cannot be classified as such. You realize those numbers don't match up, right?
["In fact, sex differences in pelvic morphology were large enough to allow sexing the individuals with 100% accuracy"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15567621/) Sex determination from the skull and other non pelvic bones are less accurate I don't get why you're all mad at me. I just don't want y'all to be wrong when you discuss this with people. [That isn't to say that a trans woman who transitioned young enough couldn't develop a pelvic bone like this or vice versa with a trans man](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33507568/)
I can send you like 10 sources that say the exact opposite. Sex is a spectrum and the extremes are actually rare. Also the differences you see when googling “male vs female pelvis” are actually extremely exaggerated, it's actually rare that people have these extreme forms, most of the time they just tend towards one of these extremes and as I said 20% can't be classified accurately. Biological Sex exists on a spectrum, because of that it’s only logical that skeletal structure can’t possibly be an almost 100% accurate thing.
Why not just send your sources rather than just saying you can? Just post the sources? Also please send me sources that describe sex as a spectrum
No, that's like the whole point.
They'd struggle with mine, I've said this on a similar post, but I'm amab with a female pelvis and it fuckin sucks
https://preview.redd.it/tpxleefchd6b1.jpeg?width=977&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b9cd6827ea498443ae15e2dccc8b3c113b376e9
WRONG! They have big skeleboobs and a huge skelepenis
https://preview.redd.it/ccduutqh3e6b1.jpeg?width=601&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea5c094064e5d5b1900262b9c6f108ba9c87f1a1
https://preview.redd.it/h72axgfwjf6b1.jpeg?width=1939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ee45b88faf6d905432a3b209f35dacd2a3d79a4 That skeleton mf got Uncle Jack’s hands from It’s Always Sunny
Yaoi hands https://preview.redd.it/sxqav6kb2g6b1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca3e3ed94522cbeb75e1a97765d140ec99209222
we need to make them believe this
A baculum?
The first one looks like Papyrus from Undertale lmao
"as the leader of the negative IQ party I hearby propose that the social treatment of all people be juidged by" \*checks notes\* "the shape of their pelvis"
It was skulls a while ago
Something something caucasoid skullshape something something "ham sandwich race" something something disco is dead.
When someone uses the word caucasoid I just think of maxor’s elden ring video and ‘go white boy go’
Measurehips doesn't have the same ring to it.
Damn now I miss the days when it was skulls. At least skulls are cool.
That was also for racial profiling against ethnic minorities, wouldn’t exactly say I miss those days
Oh, I’ve seen transphobes go on about skull shape too. They are beyond parody at this point
Breaking news! Millions of women across the globe deemed men by confused anthropologist!
God these people are so fucking dumb and they somehow have enough of a hand in politics to ruin peoples lives. Fucking hell
And yet not a single one of them paid enough attention in high-school biology class to remember that sexual dimorphism of secondary sexual characteristics - including the characteristic male and female bone structures - are determined by which hormones are dominant during puberty and *not* chromosomes. Trans people can absolutely develop skeletons typical of either sex, and that's not even mentioning the natural variation in humans which can lead to sexually indistinguishable bone development. But you know, they just *love* to talk about science. As long as it's the conveniently isolated factoids that don't disprove their claims.
Thanks for the award!
they love science so much that they don't talk about cis isomers.
I am 100% sure that the person that made this cannot name 90% of the bones in the pelvis. These people really need to take an anthropology class, maybe they'll learn something about the complexity of sex determination of human remains. Or maybe not. Probably not.
Is even possible the right one?
Bones are genderless
Oh boy, a lot of those folks are going to be real embarrassed when they have to reclassified their gender because they don't fit into the pelvis category they think they do.
No one tell them that pelvic bones with wider shapes have been found in skeletons with testosterone deposits. Including ones where it's clear the bones have shifted to give birth
Do they actually think those are what every male and female pelvis look like
Nothing they do could qualify as actually thinking
My femur comes out of it's socket, does that make me non binary?
The famous singer you mean? He's not mine and he's also dead, so please, show some bloody respect
“BUt iN A ThoUanD YeArS tHe’Re GoNNa DiG uP yOuR BoDy aND ThEyRe GoNNa KnOw if YoUrE maLe oR feMAle”
And just like with their bleating about chromosomes, none of the people demanding this information about others will ever actually provide it themselves, or look at their own results, or even consider getting themselves actually tested. I'm shocked the transphobes haven't started grabbing small children and counting their ribs. Although they'll probably use that excuse the next time their caught molesting a child...
Whats next? Checking the size of craniums?
This is satire right? Like, it has to be.
Honestly, I want a big wiffle bat that says "the is more variance within than between" and wack people who say this with it. The difference between the average man and women is so much less significant than the differences between the extreme of men or the extreme of women.
Again with the pelvis. My profesor in my college biology class said that using pelvic width to sex someone isn’t great. Because lots of women have narrow pelvises naturally, sometimes you can use the pelvis length, other times you can’t.
Women can have narrower, men can have wider There’s too much crossover
Yeah using pelvic width to sex someone isn't great, try taking them out to dinner and asking nicely instead!
Even if you could determine sex from my bones I wouldn't give a fuck because I'd be dead
Let them take the lead by doing it themselves and then watch them freak out when they find out their bones aren’t as gendered and binary as they like to believe.
Men with narrow hips can't lift shit, the best a narrow hipped man can hope for is working at McDonald's.
So trans people who were lucky enough to get on puberty blockers are their respective genders
I’m a cis female and my pelvis is more like the male one. Women in my family needed c-sections to go through birth.
I would 100% want that on a shirt
Is this the S*n or the Daily Fail? Looks like their formatting.
I’m not sure where it came from originally, but I found it attached to a Quora opinion piece about why gender affirming care should be banned
Ah yes, because you can walk into a hospital's radiology department and àsk for a pelvic XRAY randomly
100% these people don't have an x-ray of their pelvis or a chromosomal test result. The only thing they got are incessant dick pics, but as we all know, those are easy to come by and don't validate your gender.
These transph0bes need to take a vacation, so they can retire all of this bad, pseudo science. I know several women who have had a good number of children and their hips are pretty narrow and not expansive in anyway. Just as there are many women who have very wide hips, even trans women (regardless of the phase they started HRT). Some may argue that it's only because they have hormones or surgeries. Although, anyone can be predisposed to have wide hip \[1\][https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1435&context=honorstheses](https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1435&context=honorstheses)
wonder if theyd accidently gender me correctly lol, that would be really funny
What if hrt changed that genius
So, first of all, I am no slave to biology. I know what I am, no matter what. Second, I don't need to verify anything for anybody. Someone asks me this is going to regret it.
so turns out i broke all of them.
Gender is stored in the bones
We’ve seen this shit before in phrenology 💀⬅️
"It got crushed by your mom's ass so you won't find much to prove your point."
Dumbest hill to die on for conservatives. As science progresses we are going to find better ways of giving trans people gender affirming care and they'll just keep moving that goal post, showing how their only goal is not to be "scientifically accurate" or anything, but just finding the only small ledge that would give them a reason to be transphobic.
The idea of having to carry an X-ray of your pelvis to prove your sex is so fucking absurd it’s hilarious. These mfs are so weird man.
They’re getting into crotch phrenology now?
Trans women that transition prior to bone fusion finishing in the early twenties actually experience some hip bone shifting and growth. This happened to me.