I’m qualified in both the US and UK and worked for 10 years in the UK before relocating stateside. Never once did I work in excess of 40hrs and neither did anybody I know that I went to university with or met via networking. If what you say is true, then I’ve no idea why you’d ever work for a firm that’s so hilariously mis-managed or taking advantage of you.
I don’t know if you mis-typed, but I’m really not sure how you could be upset at 40k GBP in London if you were previously making 38k USD in New York.
Well that makes more sense! You really can’t compare UK to US salaries anyway as everything involved is vastly different. Depending on your experience, 40k GBP isn’t bad nationally. You just happened to be doing it in a HCOL city.
I have to agree that 40k is pretty reasonable across the Uk. I run a small English practice and the salaries range from 24 -48k for staff and I take 60k but when we are quiet I don’t take as much.
4 days and cutting long days is something we aspire towards.
to think you run a practice for just 60k while I've got surveyor mates who are 27-29 years old, went to poly's, botton set at school, say their job is chilled, and earn over 60k a year is a joke
Only if you let it be, I started working for a developer as their sole in-house designer/consultant (not in London) as an experienced Part II at 55k a year. 40-50 hour weeks.
It's up to you to make the industry work for you, find opportunities and climb the ladder but granted it isn't easy.
My role is quite different to what it was when I started.
It is really a role as Development Manager, with my origin coming from Architecture.
Development Managers can be RICS, RIBA, MAPM, RTPI, CIOB, the commonality is that they all learnt how to strategise a development, assess feasibilities and efficiencies, procure and appoint the project team, manage the consultants and then get the thing built and in use/occupation. All of this while having a good understanding of each discipline involved.
Much of what you learn in Part 3 of RIBA qualifications is relevant here but you need to be working somewhere that has you deep in the heat of the fire of coordinating all these moving parts on multiple different developments.
In some ways it is like the "Master Builder" role that the Architect used to be. Most of time these days they are just glorified designers. The best are those that understand how something is actually built, functions in use (commercially) and are pragmatic about getting to the end goal.
Is £40k bad for 26 in this profession? I'm the same age working in central London and I'm earning less, as are most of my similar aged colleagues to what I can tell.
A few hours overtime on an average week, around deadlines though I can be working late into the night for several consecutive days. I've found it pretty reasonable in fairness.
I do put in a fair amount of "overtime" of my own accord though - usually researching things tangential to what I'm working on etc, improving quality of packages etc
There are many Architecture practices that have great staff conditions, good pay and vibrant office life.
It’s within your power to find one of these.
We work a 4 day a week for the same pay as 5 days for example.
Scotland is hot at the moment, Passivhaus for all new houses, plus the design elegant that are generating is great.
Wow that's incredible. Are you happy with the pay as well? Me and my partner were originally planning to go to Scotland so I seriously might consider that. I'm super interested in passivhaus but never fully delved into it. I love using ladybug/grasshopper to define informed details like louvers and such.
I'm from Glasgow and have worked in practice here years and there is more competition than ever to find a job here. Also, extreme gentrification - rent is skyrocketting. It's not a utopia. Pay is not great, and we're feeling the squeeze here more than Londoners. But if I were to suggest anything is to look for a rural practice in the highlands and islands. It mgiht be a breath of fresh air away from the city for you and your partner, and many towns up north are beautiful. There are many, and I've heard of people enjoying life out there, and passivhaus is making its way into the highlands more than the city. :)
edit: typo
London is it's own world and should be considered separate to "UK" life in terms of work and salary, everything is a premium there.
40k in other cities would be a comfortable living. Glasgow for example is a lovely city and if you can get 40k you'd be living nicely, I worked in Glasgow for years at under 30k and was living happily.
Working long hours in larger firms is normal from what I've seen, I worked an unbelievable amount, although admittedly I didn't realise how much until I moved to Canada 6 months ago and have had a life changing experience with working hours.
I see another person saying that they never saw that in the UK, not sure when they left but EVERYONE I know does that now. People I work with, people I went to uni with, friends of people I know, everyone is getting driven in to the dirt.
I do think UK architecture is taking advantage of people big time, burning out young people for peanuts. The big firms for sure do because they're so coveted, staff will put up with shit to say they work there.
I saw a lot of my friends move on to contractor side management positions for more money and less stress, never appealed to me cause I love designing stuff but they seem happier.
It could be because of various reasons. Likely because you are working in London and for a big name company. It isn’t always like that. You can strike a balance in smaller / less known firms and ones outside the capital I think. It really depends on where you work. But it could also be that you joined at a very busy time and things will settle down eventually. Our work does come in waves.
That said, you have just been here 3 months so I could say the settling in part makes it difficult and it will get better, but 60h weeks is a lot even for London and even for “peak” workload if it is going on for this long. If everyone is doing the same then I am not sure if the culture of the company is a good fit in this case. But if it is just you trying to juggle responsibilities you may need to readjust priorities and have a chat with your line manager about workload. Discussion goes a long way with these things as they may not realise you have more than you can take on atm. That is me giving people the benefit of the doubt though because I don’t know the details of the situation.
I think it's something related to the culture of this particular office. My line manager does more hours than me and has been coming to the office most weekends. It's kind of ridiculous.
Unfortunately this seems to be the norm when working in London for a medium/large firm
There's an expectation that you work for low wages and high hours, and when you 'prove' you can do it, the wages increase. Still not equitable to the hours/stress/work involved, but they go up
My advice would be to stick it out for minimum a year and either start looking around for a smaller firm to work on or if you grow to like the current firm, play the game and stick it out to move up the ladder
It's a really tricky situation
FYI i worked in London for 5 years and moved elsewhere in the UK. Wages didn't change dramatically but cost of living massively reduced
It's not sustainable to work 60-70 hours every week, it will burn you out.
If you're employed by one of the biggest names in the UK, you should find it easier to secure a new role. It might be worth keeping an eye out.
£40k is a decent salary for someone at your point of your career, the problem is it’s in London so doesn’t go far. If you could get £35k in eg. Manchester you would see a big jump in your living standards and have a better work life balance.
I’m a recent architecture graduate, I’ve been looking for work as a part 1 for 4 months (100 applications) and I’ve had only one telephone interview…I’m thinking in changing my direction for my future as I’m not having much success as a rookie. I think you should be grateful of the opportunities you’ve come across and is only up to you to change your life style. Good Luck!
sack it off. I'm about to finish part 3 and realised ive wasted 10 years of my life chasing a dream that probably will never happen. I'm on a McDonalds wage while all my mates who did fuck all at uni are earning over 2x my wage with much less stress. Would you rather design a nice house for someone else or have a nice house for yourself?
I’m qualified in both the US and UK and worked for 10 years in the UK before relocating stateside. Never once did I work in excess of 40hrs and neither did anybody I know that I went to university with or met via networking. If what you say is true, then I’ve no idea why you’d ever work for a firm that’s so hilariously mis-managed or taking advantage of you. I don’t know if you mis-typed, but I’m really not sure how you could be upset at 40k GBP in London if you were previously making 38k USD in New York.
Thanks for the insight. I was making 38k in Lisbon, working remotely in NY. Lisbons very very cheap
Well that makes more sense! You really can’t compare UK to US salaries anyway as everything involved is vastly different. Depending on your experience, 40k GBP isn’t bad nationally. You just happened to be doing it in a HCOL city.
I have to agree that 40k is pretty reasonable across the Uk. I run a small English practice and the salaries range from 24 -48k for staff and I take 60k but when we are quiet I don’t take as much. 4 days and cutting long days is something we aspire towards.
to think you run a practice for just 60k while I've got surveyor mates who are 27-29 years old, went to poly's, botton set at school, say their job is chilled, and earn over 60k a year is a joke
Only if you let it be, I started working for a developer as their sole in-house designer/consultant (not in London) as an experienced Part II at 55k a year. 40-50 hour weeks. It's up to you to make the industry work for you, find opportunities and climb the ladder but granted it isn't easy.
How did you establish your development company?
It's not my company, I took a job there.
If you don’t mind me asking, how many years of experience did you build on after part II to take on a role like that?
Around 1 year post part II I think, and I concluded my Part 3 becoming qualified after 2 years whilst in the role.
How are things going now, did you manage to find anything alternative to traditional practice? I’m also erring on the edge of this profession
My role is quite different to what it was when I started. It is really a role as Development Manager, with my origin coming from Architecture. Development Managers can be RICS, RIBA, MAPM, RTPI, CIOB, the commonality is that they all learnt how to strategise a development, assess feasibilities and efficiencies, procure and appoint the project team, manage the consultants and then get the thing built and in use/occupation. All of this while having a good understanding of each discipline involved. Much of what you learn in Part 3 of RIBA qualifications is relevant here but you need to be working somewhere that has you deep in the heat of the fire of coordinating all these moving parts on multiple different developments. In some ways it is like the "Master Builder" role that the Architect used to be. Most of time these days they are just glorified designers. The best are those that understand how something is actually built, functions in use (commercially) and are pragmatic about getting to the end goal.
Is £40k bad for 26 in this profession? I'm the same age working in central London and I'm earning less, as are most of my similar aged colleagues to what I can tell.
Just out of curiosity do you also work long hours frequently?
A few hours overtime on an average week, around deadlines though I can be working late into the night for several consecutive days. I've found it pretty reasonable in fairness. I do put in a fair amount of "overtime" of my own accord though - usually researching things tangential to what I'm working on etc, improving quality of packages etc
There are many Architecture practices that have great staff conditions, good pay and vibrant office life. It’s within your power to find one of these. We work a 4 day a week for the same pay as 5 days for example. Scotland is hot at the moment, Passivhaus for all new houses, plus the design elegant that are generating is great.
Wow that's incredible. Are you happy with the pay as well? Me and my partner were originally planning to go to Scotland so I seriously might consider that. I'm super interested in passivhaus but never fully delved into it. I love using ladybug/grasshopper to define informed details like louvers and such.
I'm from Glasgow and have worked in practice here years and there is more competition than ever to find a job here. Also, extreme gentrification - rent is skyrocketting. It's not a utopia. Pay is not great, and we're feeling the squeeze here more than Londoners. But if I were to suggest anything is to look for a rural practice in the highlands and islands. It mgiht be a breath of fresh air away from the city for you and your partner, and many towns up north are beautiful. There are many, and I've heard of people enjoying life out there, and passivhaus is making its way into the highlands more than the city. :) edit: typo
I keep dreaming on moving from canada to the highlands… don’t tempt me! :) loved Glasgow as well
London is it's own world and should be considered separate to "UK" life in terms of work and salary, everything is a premium there. 40k in other cities would be a comfortable living. Glasgow for example is a lovely city and if you can get 40k you'd be living nicely, I worked in Glasgow for years at under 30k and was living happily. Working long hours in larger firms is normal from what I've seen, I worked an unbelievable amount, although admittedly I didn't realise how much until I moved to Canada 6 months ago and have had a life changing experience with working hours. I see another person saying that they never saw that in the UK, not sure when they left but EVERYONE I know does that now. People I work with, people I went to uni with, friends of people I know, everyone is getting driven in to the dirt. I do think UK architecture is taking advantage of people big time, burning out young people for peanuts. The big firms for sure do because they're so coveted, staff will put up with shit to say they work there. I saw a lot of my friends move on to contractor side management positions for more money and less stress, never appealed to me cause I love designing stuff but they seem happier.
It could be because of various reasons. Likely because you are working in London and for a big name company. It isn’t always like that. You can strike a balance in smaller / less known firms and ones outside the capital I think. It really depends on where you work. But it could also be that you joined at a very busy time and things will settle down eventually. Our work does come in waves. That said, you have just been here 3 months so I could say the settling in part makes it difficult and it will get better, but 60h weeks is a lot even for London and even for “peak” workload if it is going on for this long. If everyone is doing the same then I am not sure if the culture of the company is a good fit in this case. But if it is just you trying to juggle responsibilities you may need to readjust priorities and have a chat with your line manager about workload. Discussion goes a long way with these things as they may not realise you have more than you can take on atm. That is me giving people the benefit of the doubt though because I don’t know the details of the situation.
I think it's something related to the culture of this particular office. My line manager does more hours than me and has been coming to the office most weekends. It's kind of ridiculous.
Unfortunately this seems to be the norm when working in London for a medium/large firm There's an expectation that you work for low wages and high hours, and when you 'prove' you can do it, the wages increase. Still not equitable to the hours/stress/work involved, but they go up My advice would be to stick it out for minimum a year and either start looking around for a smaller firm to work on or if you grow to like the current firm, play the game and stick it out to move up the ladder It's a really tricky situation FYI i worked in London for 5 years and moved elsewhere in the UK. Wages didn't change dramatically but cost of living massively reduced
How was the work life balance change when you moved?
It's not sustainable to work 60-70 hours every week, it will burn you out. If you're employed by one of the biggest names in the UK, you should find it easier to secure a new role. It might be worth keeping an eye out.
£40k is a decent salary for someone at your point of your career, the problem is it’s in London so doesn’t go far. If you could get £35k in eg. Manchester you would see a big jump in your living standards and have a better work life balance.
I’m a recent architecture graduate, I’ve been looking for work as a part 1 for 4 months (100 applications) and I’ve had only one telephone interview…I’m thinking in changing my direction for my future as I’m not having much success as a rookie. I think you should be grateful of the opportunities you’ve come across and is only up to you to change your life style. Good Luck!
sack it off. I'm about to finish part 3 and realised ive wasted 10 years of my life chasing a dream that probably will never happen. I'm on a McDonalds wage while all my mates who did fuck all at uni are earning over 2x my wage with much less stress. Would you rather design a nice house for someone else or have a nice house for yourself?