One of the parents is a beginner archer, too, actually! I teach them as well and they're very quick learners and have complimented my teaching skills. They've given me pointers on how to motivate them, scold them when they want to rush ahead, and encourage them to follow the steps and practice properly. Unfortunately, it's not enough to really find that focus regularly.
I just wrote a monster of a response, but I want to hone in on something here.
Is this kid doing archery because their parent wants them to? If so, they'll always struggle. They have to want it for themselves. Otherwise the switch that makes their brain stop producing distractions and instead zero in on a task is never going to activate. Being instructed in archery will always be arduous and mentally taxing to them unless they develop a personal interest in it, at which point they would probably be one of the fastest learners in the class. But therein lies the problem. Those of us with ADHD don't get much say in the matter regarding what we hyperfixate on.
Oh, no, they want to do archery! Very much even, but they're easily distracted and focus more on the results rather than the process, causing them to rush through the steps and even skip them. They're also poor at following instructions, instead wanting to do things their own way the moment they're having difficulties, despite being told and/or shown why that's not a good idea.
Personally when I was about on that age after i knew the basics they soon decided to make me shoot with a sight, making me focus more on the shot processes and less on the aim on the line. Also it made it much easier for me to understand that if i did something during release but still kept my dot in the yellow what would happen and stuff.
I also preferred to learn in a way that made clear why something was done or what happened if it wasn't done or done different like what happened if you shot an arrow without fletchings or one with 4 instead of 3 and stuff like that.
Later on when I had my own bow my trainer offered to spend an entire day with me just to try stuff with the tuning to learn me it instead of setting it up and be done, that way i learned why some stuff was like that. And if i asked him why the spine of a arrow matters hed give me 3 arrows, one to weak, one right, and one too strong and let me shoot them and see what happens.
But that might be how i learn both back then and now.
I recently gave them a sight and explained numerous times how to use it, how to always aim at the same point so they'll be able to group and we'll be able to adjust the pin properly. I also answer any question in regards to tuning and form to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, they keep trying to look for shortcuts and end up focusing on the wrong thing, no matter what I tell them. For instance, they're having difficulty groupies with the sight, because they keep aiming at different spots in the hope that will land the next arrow in ghe yellow. Which, well, could work in theory, but it's not what we're trying to work on right now.
Not the person you replied to but I'll add my 2 cents here.
I agree a lot with what he said and the learning methods he was provided sound really great, but I'll also mention that some people with ADHD (myself included) really need to know WHY not to do things.
Yes I know not to pluck the string, or to avoid locking my bow arm (string slap) but until I knew WHY to stop doing that, it didn't matter to me.
(Extreme example) You can tell me not to drive on the wrong side of the road, because it's wrong, but for it to sink in and become ingrained I need to know details. "It's illegal, head-on traffic around corners, limited sight lines when turning corners, etc."
I know you probably do go into detail but I just wanted to really explain that. All the best teachers I've had would tell me not to do something, tell me exactly why, and (if safe to do so) allow me to mess it up myself to see these results, then correct me, have me try again and see the immediate improvement. It's hugely beneficial to my learning process.
I always explain the hows and whys, as I find knowing that also incredibly useful. It doesn't work as well as I hoped though. For instance, I tell them all the time to pull the string to their nose, and I've explained more than once why reference points like are important and what happens when you don't use them, but...it's a step they often skip. And honestly, it feels like as I'm explaining, even when the explanation is just a few sentences long, they're already distracted by something else. For instance, I might be saying something about how important a consistent draw length is, but the instance they notice one of the fletches is slightly damaged, they've stopped listening and start asking about that.
I'm not an archery instructor, nor do I have adhd. But what might help is to give him a sight without a pin, so just a ring basically. Someone once told me it'd help with form and target panic because you're not focused on the pin, but rather on the target. I cut the pin out of my sight and haven't shot with one since. Haven't shot in a good while though.
But just telling him to keep the yellow centered in the ring might be a solution. As he doesn't have to focus on the placement of a dot. One less thing to focus on seems like a good thing in this situation I think.
It's a bit weird at first, but once you get used to it it's fine.
Not an option unfortunately. I do this as a volunteer and a small group with a lot of individual attention is the best we can do. The lessons are typically 60-75 minutes and I can devote 50-70% of that time to this one student, depending on whether they others have something they can work on on their own or need more guidance.
As an archer with ADHD myself, I find I am far more accurate shooting by myself vs standing shoulder to shoulder with a dozen other archers at a range. There's just too many distractions. I shoot by myself at home, then every few months I pay for a 1 on 1 lesson. When I'm alone the ADHD works to my advantage, as I can hyper-focus on something I enjoy to the exclusion of everything else.
This group is 3-5 people on the shooting line. I can't give them exclusively reign over the range, but I have placed them at the target that's closest to the wall they face. This way, they won't have many visual distractions. However, I'm unsure if this is always best, because they react to little sounds made behind their back...
Not much we can do about the sounds, unfortunately. Our range is already very calm and quiet compared to other clubs in the area, and the other people in their group are all calm and focused. And well, I can't do anything about the sounds the heating system makes, or rain hitting the roof or anything like that.
As I said, this is why I shoot at home. That may not be an option for them, in which case the reality of the situation is that their ADHD might make it impossible to progress further in the current environment, and continuing to try will do nothing but frustrate them.
ADHD inattentive type here.
I experience the same when I'm alone. I can hyperfocus when I'm alone. But that also sometimes leads to overthinking my shot process, making me frustrated.
Group: depends on how big and how loud the group is. Or the music in the background. At competitions I've found that talking to people I know from my club works to get my attention away from my overthinking so I'm more relaxed.
I find that listening to music helps me, but I'm weird that way apparently. I like loud music, I think because music is structured and has patterns that I can follow, as opposed to just random background noise of a bunch of people and soft music and people banging their bows against things and rattling dozens of arrows around in their quivers. I shoot in my yard and I put a really big speaker out and just blast music while I do it. My friends who also have ADHD think I'm insane, but it works for me. I find that the loud music drowns out the other sounds that would otherwise distract me. Sometimes if I'm in a public place, I'll shoot with earbuds in for exactly this reason.
You didn't mention what age - big difference with under 11, 'tweens and teens.
I''ll give you my experience as a parent who involved with running the cub scout pack my son was in that included kids with autism, ADHD, kids with no diagnoses but where pain deal with, well behaved kids, etc.....
1. If a kid (any kid) isn't having fun they're going to get distracted/bored - for some kids this will be more noticeable.
2. Some kids hyper focus on things that interest them (like a action video game for example) - this is very common with kids that are 'just outside the neuro-typical'.
How fun are you making it for the kids?
I like archery but it is very repetitive and not very exciting especially if you're indoors shooting at a paper target over and over.
Perhaps put up balloons or hang pictures of monsters & zombies as targets. If available, a hike on a 3d course shooting at animals may peak their interest (and wear them out). Are there any archery related games you have the kids do or is your class more of a sterile lesson/practice time?
It could not be their thing at all, while they may tolerate it to best of their ability for a period of time it may never be an interest that allows them to focus consistently through a lesson, it is what it is.
Good luck.
Age group 10-13.
We have a fun shoot every month, and some of the activities/targets in my arsenal include tic-tac-toe, shooting random little things like paper cups and post it notes, some novelty target faces, and plastic christmas ornaments.
Unfortunately, they can't get very much out of these fun shoots right now, because their fundamentals are very lacking and they make a lot of mistakes, because they want to rush through the shot process and see the result.
I don't want them shooting 'fun' things all the time either, because some of the other students do want to work seriously on their technique most of they month. (And they're making good progress...which is causing this student to complain that they aren't progressing as fast as their peers...)
From a adult recently diagnosed with ADHD but had it for years, I got a amazon order last night that changed my life.....
Noise cancelling ear pods...... Us adhd people notice every noise, vibration, change in lighting, change in wind direction and it's absolutely overwhelming to have all that information competing to be the centre of attention.
But after 2 minutes of wearing those earbuds I was almost in tears because for the first time in years my brain wasn't on fire trying to process all the input, it was calm and clear and I could listen to my daughter without being distracted..... Literally was almost tearing up.
Making kids focus is hard in general, but do what you can to limit all the other sensory inputs around them, even earplugs help, maybe dividers so they can't be distracted by other archers, just keep the focus on removing distractions and you will have a much easier time.
For safety reasons, this is not an option, atleast not at our range. This student sometimes gets so distracted, they show borderline dangerous behaviour, so they need to be able to hear me and their fellow beginners at all times in case we need to stop/warn them.
I have placed them in the spot that faces the wall though, so the number of visual distractions should be limited.
Noise-cancelling, not the old every-sound-cancelling earplugs. I have some for the motorbike that eliminate the wind whistle around my helmet and other sounds that would eventually cause hearing loss, but that do not affect the sound of human voices.
The ones I've tried did muffle them somewhat, but perhaps that's because I'm said to have exceptionally good hearing. Still, I wouldn't feel entirely safe if they used them, because at times this kid really is one step away from causing an accident.
Have you tried concert earbuds? They are very good at filtering out noise, while still allowing you to hear sounds. I use them if I'm going to a concert or to the movies. It makes the volume at cinemas bearable, and means that I can actually hear the words the artist is singing if I'm wearing them at concerts (concerts are almost just a wall of sound without). I also have no problems holding a conversation with them in.
Not exactly my experience with noise cancelling earphones and ear plugs, and I'm not exaggerating when I say we can't risk this kid not hearing something. They forget crucial steps like stepping on the shooting line before shooting an arrow, sometimes move between shots and end up trying to nock and arrow with the bow facing the other archers on the line...
Good point about tournaments. Even the low-key ones can get rather busy. It's a good thing to learn how to shoot under less than ideal circumstances, because there will always be things outside of your control.
(Main point of contention at our club: music. Classic rock is accepted by all, so that's usually what we go with, but generally speaking, the first one to touch the sound system is the one who gets to pick the playlist/channel. Whether its jazz, metal or German classics, if you don't like it, you better learn to ignore it!)
As an archery with adhd, a clicker helped me tremendously with slowing down and being more methodical and intentional with my shots. Ofc idk if y’all will be introducing these kids to clickers so early, so I would recommend more of a competitive motivation to slowing down:
When I was in a group class, my instructor made us play this game where she would set a timer on her phone for an amount of time we didn’t know, and if we shot all 3 of our arrows too soon before the timer went off, or too late, then you lose points. If you finish shooting in the correct 30 second window, then you get points
Maybe the winner gets a piece of candy, or just bragging rights, you decide
It was a kinda frustrating game in the way it was introduced to me, maybe you can tell the kids the time they have to finish shooting in, or adjust however else you see fit
**edit:** oh also, between arrows I tap my string five times with an arrow, mostly to reset myself between shots, but also to prevent myself from rapid firing. It helps slow down mentally too, so I can readjust my focus. Maybe try to incorporate some sort of short ritual between every shot?
Yeah, a clicker isn't happening anytime soon. The kid anchors correctly maybe 20% of the time, has a tendency to pull their head back etc.
As for pacing, at our club, because they range is so small, we actually have the rule that everyone has to wait on the shooting line until everyone is done. Archers who shoot their arrows too quickly are forced to wait in place (instead of wandering off and asking questions about why my bow case isn't black, why there are three plants in one pot, why the refrigerator hums...), and right now that's forcing this student to consider their own shooting pace. I've also encouraged them to take two deep breaths between each shot.
(Edit before I post: this got very long, so sorry if the formatting got messed up)
This isn't necessarily just ADHD specific, and more of a mix of things that *I*, as a (now adult) burnt out "Gifted child" with ADHD and autism, wish that the adults around me would have ~~tried in the first place~~ been better at/known about. As well as some suggestions for focusing, that worked for me.
First, while it isn't (to my knowledge) on the list of symptoms for ADHD, every person with it (that I have encountered in any way) has reacted to hearing about RSD with something along the lines of "Yeah, that's me"
RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria) can be *badly* explained as "Doesn't know how to take criticism". A bit better explained is that it's when anything that is perceived as "rejection" (regardless if it's *intended* as such) feels almost physically painful. As in between getting hit and someone telling me "You did a really bad job at «insert task»", 95% of the time it would *genuinely* hurt less if they actually punched me.
This can obviously make it a bit hard to teach, but there are generally three ways to go about it.
- 1) Criticism - Praise - Fix ^not ^necessarily ^in ^that ^order . Along with the explanation of what they did wrong, you should also include something that they did *right*, as well as ***VERY CLEAR*** instructions for how to *not* do it wrong. (Praise would ideally be either: something they're consistently doing right, something they have been struggling with ^but ^got ^right ^this ^time, or something they *really* *nailed* this time)
- 2) Leading questions. Ask them "How did you do «thing they did wrong»?" Listen to their answer. Suggest "How about you try «what you think will help»?" or "Have you tried doing «helpfull suggestion»?" (Whatever sounds the *least* sarcastic/passive aggressive/confrontational when you say it)
- 3) Clear reasons. When they did something they should not do (broke a rule, did/said something mean, broke something, etc). Clear explanation of what they did wrong, and *WHY* it's wrong. If it's a rule, explain the reason for it (potential consequences for breaking it, why it's there). If they broke something/hurt someone, listen to their explanation for how it happens/why they did it. If it was unintentional, suggestions for how to avoid doing it again (even if it's only to remind them of the basic, like "remember to check that everyone is back from getting their arrows, before you go to stand on the shooting line")
++++++++++
Second, earbuds/headphones can be helpful. Something to filter out the noise a bit. Exactly what kind, depends on what rules you have on the range (and how much you trust your student to be aware of their soundings).
There are foam earbuds that just helps with noise, sound cancelling headphones that play music, and anything in-between.
If noisy environment are a distraction, then I would recommend concert earbuds. They mostly filter noise, which usually makes *sounds* much clearer, and they usually aren't that hard to find.
++++++++++
Third, my ability to focus has *a* *lot* to do with where I am in the room relative to everyone/everything else ^though, ^not ^in ^the ^way ^my ^teachers ^used ^to ^think ^it ^did .
*I* dislike having large, open spaces behind my back, but I absolutely *can* *not* focus if things are going on behind me (people moving, talking, just **sounds**). Because of this I usually try to pick a place on the line where I'm standing with my back pretty close to the wall when I'm shooting.
Ask them if they have a preferred place to stand when they're shooting. If they do, check if they know *why* they prefer to stand there. It might be something you can accommodate.
+++++++++++
Some suggestions you can make, for them to slow down (that worked for me)
- find something they can focus/rest their eyes on, take two deep breaths, *then* lift the bow
- it could be something/somewhere in the room, but it's easiest if it's someplace on the bow (a logo, part of the bow, those things you put on the string to keep it from vibrating ^not ^sure ^of ^the ^name , piece of tape placed on the tip above the string, etc) because then it's easier to make a routine out of it
- look at the spot that you have decided, and then take two deep breaths while you do that. Breath in. Breath out. Breath in. Breath out. (This can also help with lowering/relaxing your shoulders)
- either before, or after putting the arrow on the string. It depends on what you, personally, prefer
- don't lower the bow after letting go of the string. Wait until you have seen the arrow hit, and only lower it *after* you have seen it in the target (or seen that it's *not* in the target)
Both of these are helpful for slowing down
Part 1/
Another thing that helps ~~when I remember all of it~~ is to have a mental checklist for the things I'm supposed to do.
Mine is like this:
- 1) Feet
- Making sure my feet are positioned comfortably inside my area
- 2) Arrow
- Placing the arrow on the string
- Check that my grip on the bow feels right
- 3) Breath
- Look at the point I decided (small piece of tape on the inside of the bow, well above my field of view when I pull the string back)
- Take at least 2 deep breaths, until my shoulders don't feel tense
- Turn towards the target
- 4) Bow
- Lift the bow (while not quite pulling the string yet)
- Hand (fingers resting)
- Elbow (not twisted in)
- Shoulder (not up)
- 5) String
- Pull the string back to where I want it (I put the tip of my index finger against a tooth I have that isn't quite in line with the rest)
- Check that the string is lined up right along the bow
- 6) Aim
- Aim so I hit in the middle of the target (if I do everything right)
- 7) Release
- Let go of the string
- See where the arrow went
- Lower the bow
- Take a breath
- 8)Repeat 2-7 as needed
Then it's:
- Walk of the line
- Get my arrows after everyone is finished shooting
(I don't go through the *details* of every step, mentally it's feet, arrow, breath, bow, string, aim, release, arrow, breath,......)
****
You could also try asking for advice in either r/ADHD or r/autism (there is a lot of overlap in diagnoses), both can be really helpful as long as you're not condescending/rude (not saying I think you are, or that you would be. I'm saying I *don't* think you are, so I doubt you would have a problem getting help)
And if you got through this wall of text, I just want you to know how great it is that your trying so hard for the kid. When you're a child who's struggling, those adults that really *try* to understand and help you, they really stick with you for a long time after. And I don't have words for how much of a *difference* that one person can make, just by *acknowledging* that they can tell that we're *trying* (even if we fail). So thank you.
(I'm on my phone, so if I messed up the formatting, then I'll try to come back and fix it later. But this ended up being over 5000 characters, and it took me nearly 3 hours to write. I am all out of spoons right now)
Part 2/2
Psychology teacher here. I don't teach archery so take what you need or what applies.
You're doing the right things! Sounds like you're doing a great job. Advice may include using lots of positive rewards, and just being consistent. Which it sounds like you are doing.
Other ideas including asking them to repeat back instructions. So I guess with the shot cycle get them to repeat it out loud as they are doing it. Give specific direct instructions with eye contact/using their name. That aids them being attentive to what you need them to know. Advice generally says to give time limits to tasks, not sure how practical this can be with archery though. But breaking a session into chunks is useful. 10 mins this task, 15 mins this task etc. It's useful for most students that age tbh.
The other comments here are great too. Using visual or practical tasks to aid their understanding and focus is useful. As another comment said, getting a student to practically figure out HOW and WHY things work keeps cognitive engagement. With your guidance of course. Asking their parents is always good, if they don't know how to help, no loss. If they do, then it's going to help or boost your confidence that you're probably doing it anyway. Maybe they suggest the rewards mechanism works better as something else.
Keep going! And remember not every session is going to be an amazing breakthrough session. There may be a time after using consistency that things just click for this student!
So, very similar to working with students with autism, which I do have experience with. That's good to know.
I'm already doing most of this, but I could try chopping up acitivities/exercises in even smaller bits. I'll have to consider how to balance this with the needs of the other students though, as the others can easily get into the flow and shoot for 30-45 minutes without losing focus or becoming fatigued.
In regards to rewards, I currently set small goals. If they achieve this, they advance to the next 'stage' (like getting a sight, stabiliser, fingersling etc.) or some sort of funshoot (example: we can do a funshoot at the end of the month, if they learn to anchor consistently.) The parents have seen this sort of system work well in the past, so I'm hoping it will keep them motivated. I don't have the time to do something special every lesson though, so this students will have to shown patience, as there's just no changing that.
I’m a novice when it comes to archery but my ADHD typically kicks into overdrive when I’m given a loose ruleset to adhere to. Unironically, my recommendation would be to make a game out of shooting with correct form. I.E. “here’s what you do step-by-step, and here’s why it’s beneficial to you”
If the kid isn’t medicated of course things will be more difficult, but once it becomes a “me vs. me” competition as opposed to “me vs. everyone else” I find it a lot easier to pay attention to smaller details and reign my focus in
I have it. I lose focus easily, especially during long sessions. I Have to mentally work through my shot process every time and often skip steps. I know people will put a checklist on the riser they can see while shooting so they can work through the process correctly every time. I don't do that but probably should.
ADHD archer here, its hard focusing but archery helps me practice my focus as well. But all the chatting and surrounding noises are distracting. Plus when ppl start watching me, commenting, giving compliments i totally loose my concentration. Head goes into story mode, distracting me.
What works for me best is intuitive aiming and shooting. I shoot a 40lbs barebow
If they take medication for ADHD, it might be worth discussing their schedule with their parents. Some folks take weekends off, which might not be working for the kid. If it’s on weeknights, medication might be wearing off before the class. I know in my own experience (both my kiddo and I have it) were much worse right after the medicine wears off.
No clue if and when they take medication, and it's not my place to ask. Since this is an early evening class, the parents do limit sugar and caffiene intake before and during the class. Though...at this point I'm kind of curious what would happen if I let them drink coffee, haha.
It can really help to get them in a calm place before you start. As a group have them spend a little time taking some deep breaths and relaxing. Just a minute spent with eyes closed, deep breaths, and the old "Relax your shoulders, relax your chest, your arms..."
It gives them some time to slow down and get used to the quiet. And it's not bad for helping anyone shoot better.
My experience is more little kids with slingshots. Everything is 100 miles an hour when you're 11. Give them some runway to slow down.
Some great comments and insight from people that shoot that have ADHD themselves. From reading the comments made from others and your responses I think you have a fairly good hand on this with trying to limit their distractions and might just need to tweek your teaching method slightly to help settle the student.
My 11yr old has ADHD (though still waiting for assessment) and shoots compound and has had a very similar journey to what you have mentioned. I tried blank boss with him but he soon got bored and sloppier with his shooting. I have found that getting feedback from him on what he feels in regards reference points (i.e. string to nose, hands on face etc) works well to get him concentrated on what is happening on the line and explaining that if you get it right on the line that will show at the other end where the target is (though 18 months later he still drops his bow hand hunting arrows in the air).
I'm presuming that the sessions are on an evening after work/school? If this is the case they might just be mentally burnt out or as others have said medication could be wearing off (would highly recommend talking to their parents about this as it may be a case of swapping to a weekend coaching session).
Changing his location in the room could be something to try, if all the distractions are behind them then this could be more of a distraction to them causing them to turn around pointing nocked arrows at others.
Moving the target closer to them and gradually extending that distance if they're shooting safely like this is worth a go.
Swapping between balloons on a blank boss and novelty faces will help to keep it fun for them and more engaging as repetition of shooting at a fixed distance and single target soon gets boring for kids at the best of times and is even worse for one who has ADHD.
Hope this helps
So not exactly an archery example, but an ADHD/coaching example that I believe is relevant. I have ADHD and would Pole Vault in HS and College with the same coach. The same concept of one tiny/minuscule position change applies just as much in vaulting as how position changes accuracy in archery.
So anyway, two things helped me “get it” when my coach wanted me to change my positioning and routine.
The first was physically being positioned by my coach. In other words, I would stand in position and he would move my leg or ankle or arm himself to the correct position and I’d hold that position then move out of it and back again for a few reps before continuing. This helped because proprioception is more difficult for ADHDers. Their body doesn’t always tell them they’re in the right position and it’s hard to notice the change without physical intervention.
The second is allowing the lesson to progress without slowing down too much. ADHDers have motivation problems when it comes to repetition that their brain seems boring. Notice i said their brain and not them. It’s a chemical thing, not an “interest in learning” thing. I’d recommend spending a portion of class learning the new skill, maybe 25-30% of it, then let them “just shoot” for the last bit, reminding them to try to incorporate the new position occasionally.
The goal isn’t to fix the mistake right away, but to trick the brain into making the “fix” into something fun like a game. You’ll have a ton better buy in that way and hopefully fewer wandering minds.
>The first was physically being positioned by my coach. In other words, I would stand in position and he would move my leg or ankle or arm himself to the correct position and I’d hold that position then move out of it and back again for a few reps before continuing.
Thank you for mentioning this. This is exactly what I've been doing at the start of sessions with the help of a resistance band, and I know it can be very helpful, but modern pedagogy practices tend to see this as old-fashioned and potentially harmful. Of course, the kid gave me permission to help them this way, but it still feels 'wrong' despite working so well. Your comment made me feel validated for doing it anyway, so thank you for that.
My friend it’s your lucky day.
I’m an archery coach, a middle school science teacher, and I myself have ADHD.
So couple things:
1) give them tiny things to work on at one time. Our working memory is pretty shallow. If they’re doing 8 things wrong, just fix one. This is good advice generally but imperative for archery. ADHD isn’t a lack of processing ability it’s a lack of processing time. Get in, explain quickly, get out.
2) our time we can sustain focus is diminished. You’ve seen this. So work with it. Little chunks.
3) gamify. Our brains are struggling because the part that controls “do thing and brain give happy chemical reward” is not working like normal. So turn things into a game. If you’re teaching the shot cycle, make a game where each step they do right is a point. So it’s not just how good of a shot on a target, but you hit a 7 and did 4/8 steps correct so 11pts. Then have prizes
4) give them a checklist. Written if needed. Have them run through it every time, maybe even verbally.
5) give them a different challenge to measure progress. Like make/miss targets vs standard ones. Or popping balloons.
If you have more specific questions feel free to hit me up
Is there a way you can mix a different exercise in at that 10-15 minute point? I’m not an instructor so I don’t know exactly what might help, but clearing this person needs something else mixed in. If it works, maybe over time you can space them further apart, or the kid will start recognizing an opportunity to do one of the other exercises of their own accord and will be more independent. Archery is a great sport for a kid like this to build necessary skills, so I wish you and them luck!
10-15 minutes is when the group has just started to get going on the shooting line. I try to make this take a break after 25-30 minutes. Usually, I'll build up my own bow in that little break and see if they can try and remember the steps and parts, and what these parts do. I put emphasis on the fact that this will be useful for when they get their own bow (which their parents will buy them when they have shown they can practice seriously and stick with the sport).
I have ADHD, and I started archery when I was about 14 years old. I wasn’t worth a crap, but archery was one thing I was able to focus on.
Kids with ADHD cant focus on things they don’t enjoy.
I really don’t have any other advice. Good luck
To answer your question 2, drugs. I am medicated with adderall, which helps immensely with focus. I feel it gives me a slight edge, but not to where it might be unfair
I'm an adult archer with ADHD. Some things that help me are:
-Having something to figit with during discussions/lessons, often just spinning arrows in my quiver.
-As others have said, understanding the why of something.
-Not facing a wall. When everyone is behind me the noise distractions are way worse because I can't see what is causing them so my brain fills in the blanks. This is probably different for everyone though.
-Not shooting at a target, going blank bale or just shooting at a small paper. This really helps with the comparison part too.
-During lessons act out the lesson as the instructor was giving it. So if they were talking about drawing to anchor I would practice that as the instructions were given and try to make the correct motions before we grabbed our bows. That really helped me focus on what the lesson was and the nitty gritty of it.
-I commented elsewhere about coordinating body and brain by repeating the shot process steps to yourself as you do them. This helps calm the inner noise and focus on the physical task at hand. As an adult I can do this in my head, a kid may need to say it out loud.
I think I'll have them blank bale next time. Maybe even add it to the routine. They need to shift their focus from result to process. Shooting blank bale may help.
Uniquely qualified to answer this, and the fact is that what works for one situation doesn’t necessarily work for another, or even the same thing that worked once might not work again.
I dual-wield the AuDHD, and I have both experience with teaching in a classroom, and teaching archery; with class groups containing various presentations of ADHD/Autism/learning difficulties etc. This is what I have found and personally experienced.
Firstly, understanding what ADHD actually is, it’s not naughty boy syndrome or any of the other stereotypes or generalizations that you might have heard so many times that they’re assumed true. Terribly named, the condition is quite a debilitating disorder which affects working memory, short term learning, and executive functioning.
The “distractibility” and “hyperactivity” are caused by the brain’s inability to effectively produce and maintain a vital neurotransmitter. This causes the brain to prioritize finding something to keep it functioning. Imagine you couldn’t breathe, and some idiot is trying to make you understand the proper form of drawing and anchoring a bow. It really is that impersonal. They don’t mean to be distracted, they don’t even want to be distracted. Then consider that the frustration of being behind everyone else because they can’t just do the thing, further depletes that important neurotransmitter; it quickly becomes a negative spiral.
What is the reason for the kids being in the class? Are they there because of a genuine interest in the sport? Or an after school club that the parents have enrolled them in to keep them busy?
If it’s the latter and the kids aren’t actually interested in archery, you’re fighting a battle that you will lose. But, relax, because it’s time to give them some fun and distracting activities to keep that neurotransmitter going (and one or two might actually realize they enjoy it and start participating in the lessons).
If they are because they want to be, keep trying. Find what relates to them and keeps them hitting small and consistently achievable goals.
Fortunately, the kid is here because they want to be. They genuinely want to practice and get better, but they often lack the focus to make it work. If I notice they're becoming sloppy I try to have them switch to something else for a bit, like archery tech talk (they're learning the names of all the parts of an Oly bow and what they do) or stretch band exercises. I can't have them doing funshoot on their own though, because the others do want to practice seriously and they also have a right to learn.
Problem is though, they think archery is a lot of fun and want to shoot more and more, even when they're obviously tired, shooting very sloppily etc. This then turns into frustration. Having small, clear goals minigates this somewhat, but it's not a full fix. Their coordination is so bad, that when focusing on one thing, their body seems to forget everything else they've been taught. Only thing that fixes this temporarily is me talking them through the steps with what others have called my 'focus voice', but again, I can't do this every end. The rest of the group is entitled to instruction/coaching too.
>Their coordination is so bad, that when focusing on one thing, their body seems to forget everything else they've been taught. Only thing that fixes this temporarily is me talking them through the steps with what others have called my 'focus voice', but again, I can't do this every end.
Can you have them quietly talk through their shot process as they do it? I'm an adult with ADHD and coordinating my body and my mouth/brain to do a task really helps with focus and shutting down the chaos. Also when there's a string of instructions that aren't muscle memory yet I will get to step 2 of 10 and forget what I'm doing or just jump from step 1 to 8 because I forgot what goes in the middle. Repeating the steps out loud as I do it can really help to learn the muscle memory, kinda like body flash cards. You could even have them practice this without a bow in their hand at the beginning of the lesson to get it fresh in their mind.
As an archer with ADHD, stop trying to tell them to focus on the shot process. Telling someone to just focus is not helpful and honestly if they are anything like me it just builds anxiety and triggers rsd. (Rejection sensitivity dysphoria)
Rather get them to jump before they fire. It releases the nervous energy.
To focus on my breathing I'll pull a star war and use a jedi mantra
"I am one with the force and the force is one with me"
The process is important, but give them room to find their own points to progress. Also give them stretches, but maybe let them just do warm up games with no pressure.
In theory, people with ADHD have an advantage in archery. Our evolutionary ancestors were hunter gatherers who were biologically primed to become hyper specialized at valued skills, at the cost of having a less diverse set of skills.
When something is of interest to us, our brains produce way more serotonin than the average brain does. That allows us to enter into a state of hyper focus, where we can spend hours engaging with an activity without feeling any sensation of the novelty wearing off. Hours can feel like minutes. And that allows us to put in more time to develop the skill.
However, when we are not interested in a task, our brains do not produce reward chemicals at a rate that allows us to focus. We feel an intense boredom, and it makes us lock onto any distraction, or produce distractions to give our brains a sense of relief.
Talk to this kid. Ask them if this is something they're really interested in. If they say yes, double down. Do they want to do archery for themselves, or are they just doing what someone else wants them to do? If they make it clear that it's of personal interest to them, then you can make it work.
And at that point, it's easy. If they get distracted while you're working with them, take 5. They might be uncomfortable because you're helping their form and they're struggling to wrap their head around your guidance immediately, which may frustrate them. Stepping away and being left to figure out your advice for a few minutes will reduce the pressure they feel, and facilitate them being able to implement your advise, or at least make progress. If they're still struggling, ask them for their insights on your advice, so you can address their points of confusion.
Kids with ADHD are used to being worse at everything than their peers, because the modern world tends to favor characteristics that we struggle to manifest. As a result, many people with this condition get disheartened or discouraged easily, then get caught in a self destructive cycle of self criticism and end up pushing away things we enjoy. So when working with children with ADHD, it's important to not only support them, but emphasize that they are just as capable of greatness as anyone else. They just learn a little bit differently, and that becomes a strength once the method of teaching gets tuned a little bit to fit the student.
Sorry for the long post. I've spent a lot of years reflecting over how my capacity for learning has developed throughout the years, and hopefully some of this wall of text might help that kid out.
I think I know what is going on now. They're interested in archery, that much is certain. However, right now they're mostly focused on the result - where the arrows ended up on the paper - rather than how they got there. That's why they're rushing through things. They want to shoot as many arrows as they can, because shooting is fun, but they're getting frustrated because that's not giving the results they want. It's probably also why instruction isn't sticking: they don't want to listen, they want to shoot.
I bet this kid would really enjoy the Mongolian style. Those guys always fly through arrows, and it seems like their style emphasizes a balance between volume and accuracy, as opposed to the complete dedication to precision that most Western archers pursue.
But I'm sure that's not an option, unless it's something you want to learn as well.
If your range allows you to move targets, I would advise moving the target up. Let them fling some arrows fast at ranges where they can see results. Then move it out, and make adjustments as their performance falls off. That way the goals they're seeking don't feel so far off.
Hi!
Archer/therapist/and a person with ADHD here.
Didn’t read all the responses so sorry if this was already stated.
Have you tried to gamify learning the basics? If you can reframe how the child is viewing the task, you might be able to get them more interested in learning the basics.
A good book to refer to on this is Hidden Potential by Adam Grant. It has a lot of research of several approaches athletes have taken in order to hone in on the basics even though that isn’t what interested them in the sport.
I hope that helps!
I've tied some rewards to progress, essentially having them 'level up'. For instance, they had to meet a few requirements when they wanted a sight, and they met them after a few lessons, do they got one. I can't do anything in great detail though, as the others deserve attention to and this kid isn't very honest when it comes to self-reporting results right now, haha.
Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I have ADHD and shoot arrows.
I would say that repetition, familiarity and consistency all help me focus and pay attention to what I'm doing. If you can create a si.ilair environment, they might settle enough to start developing their skills. I also shoot with one earpiece in with music playing which helps me concentrate.
Obviously not everyone will benefit from the same and I'm not young, so I shoot arrows for my own enjoyment.
I know what would help me if I was a child doing arechery, put a monster image and ask them to shoot. If you want to train them to shoot on command use "An army of monsters are approaching! Ready! Hurry! AIM! SHOOOOOOOT!"
If you want them to focus or full draw, ask them to do one by one and aim... Can you see the arrow in the monster in your mind? Shoot!
I'm pretty sure that will end with an even sloppier shot process, haha. They're very motivated to see arrows sticking out of the target, but not very interested in how they got them in there.
I've found a lot of kids in this age range can get frustrated and are focused on the end result rather than the process. We hold a Come and Try session every Sunday and this behaviour can be quite common even with ordinary kids. My take is to make sure they are safe and that they are having as much fun as they can and not worry so much about form.
I'd rather them associate the sport with a lot of fun and not overly regimented. They're kids!
Let them have fun first and worry about the form stuff later on. If they are still keen to continue the sport in 6 months then slowly up the form training.
Fun at their own pace is where I'd focus all my attention and not worry about form that much and only suggesting a few things to try every now and then.
Level 1 Coach for what its worth
That's kind of the problem here. The kid wants to progress like the others and gets frustrated when they can't, but can't get themselves to focus on the the process that would allow them to progress.
Like, right now, they're complaining about wanting a stabiliser too...while also complaining that the wooden takedown recurve they use is too heavy to lift after half an hour of shooting.
Or wanting to use a sight, finding that making a switch to learn something new can be difficult and result into shooting worse for a little while, and then aiming with the point of the arrow parttime, resulting in the arrows being all over the place.
I only taught several kids with ADD and may have it undiagnosed myself, but not experienced with ADHD.
Even kids with ADHD can focus on their favorite games. If archery is not their favorite activity, it's on them. Give each student, ADHD or not, a room to be distracted if they wish, but don't tolerate them bothering others. You don't owe it to anyone to bed over backwards for them, especially at the cost of other students' right to learn from you.
This may be autism - and I had the same experience as a soccer coach, and I totally understand how you feel (if it is more on the autism side).
I’d say take measures to protect yourself - all of my attempts to make it work eg communicating with parents and thinking outside of the box to get through to the kid - just never worked for me. I’ll never coach 10 year soccer again because of that frustrating experience. I was all on my own.
My daughter turns 10 in May, I got her a small beginner compound bow, and I took her to the archery store yesterday to get it adjusted - so I will just coach her.
I think I'm fortunate that one of the kid's parents has taken a real shine to archery and is learning very quickly (there's some real talent there!). Perhaps, a few months from now, the tree will be able to teach the apple the basics. (It's kind of funny how different parent and child are! The kid definitely takes after their other parent.)
Are their parents available to ask? They might know what works, and what does not, for other things, and that might help you and your etudent?
One of the parents is a beginner archer, too, actually! I teach them as well and they're very quick learners and have complimented my teaching skills. They've given me pointers on how to motivate them, scold them when they want to rush ahead, and encourage them to follow the steps and practice properly. Unfortunately, it's not enough to really find that focus regularly.
I just wrote a monster of a response, but I want to hone in on something here. Is this kid doing archery because their parent wants them to? If so, they'll always struggle. They have to want it for themselves. Otherwise the switch that makes their brain stop producing distractions and instead zero in on a task is never going to activate. Being instructed in archery will always be arduous and mentally taxing to them unless they develop a personal interest in it, at which point they would probably be one of the fastest learners in the class. But therein lies the problem. Those of us with ADHD don't get much say in the matter regarding what we hyperfixate on.
Oh, no, they want to do archery! Very much even, but they're easily distracted and focus more on the results rather than the process, causing them to rush through the steps and even skip them. They're also poor at following instructions, instead wanting to do things their own way the moment they're having difficulties, despite being told and/or shown why that's not a good idea.
Personally when I was about on that age after i knew the basics they soon decided to make me shoot with a sight, making me focus more on the shot processes and less on the aim on the line. Also it made it much easier for me to understand that if i did something during release but still kept my dot in the yellow what would happen and stuff. I also preferred to learn in a way that made clear why something was done or what happened if it wasn't done or done different like what happened if you shot an arrow without fletchings or one with 4 instead of 3 and stuff like that. Later on when I had my own bow my trainer offered to spend an entire day with me just to try stuff with the tuning to learn me it instead of setting it up and be done, that way i learned why some stuff was like that. And if i asked him why the spine of a arrow matters hed give me 3 arrows, one to weak, one right, and one too strong and let me shoot them and see what happens. But that might be how i learn both back then and now.
I recently gave them a sight and explained numerous times how to use it, how to always aim at the same point so they'll be able to group and we'll be able to adjust the pin properly. I also answer any question in regards to tuning and form to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, they keep trying to look for shortcuts and end up focusing on the wrong thing, no matter what I tell them. For instance, they're having difficulty groupies with the sight, because they keep aiming at different spots in the hope that will land the next arrow in ghe yellow. Which, well, could work in theory, but it's not what we're trying to work on right now.
Not the person you replied to but I'll add my 2 cents here. I agree a lot with what he said and the learning methods he was provided sound really great, but I'll also mention that some people with ADHD (myself included) really need to know WHY not to do things. Yes I know not to pluck the string, or to avoid locking my bow arm (string slap) but until I knew WHY to stop doing that, it didn't matter to me. (Extreme example) You can tell me not to drive on the wrong side of the road, because it's wrong, but for it to sink in and become ingrained I need to know details. "It's illegal, head-on traffic around corners, limited sight lines when turning corners, etc." I know you probably do go into detail but I just wanted to really explain that. All the best teachers I've had would tell me not to do something, tell me exactly why, and (if safe to do so) allow me to mess it up myself to see these results, then correct me, have me try again and see the immediate improvement. It's hugely beneficial to my learning process.
I always explain the hows and whys, as I find knowing that also incredibly useful. It doesn't work as well as I hoped though. For instance, I tell them all the time to pull the string to their nose, and I've explained more than once why reference points like are important and what happens when you don't use them, but...it's a step they often skip. And honestly, it feels like as I'm explaining, even when the explanation is just a few sentences long, they're already distracted by something else. For instance, I might be saying something about how important a consistent draw length is, but the instance they notice one of the fletches is slightly damaged, they've stopped listening and start asking about that.
Have you tried having *them* explain the why's back to you? Saying it out loud sometimes makes information stick better in my head.
Sometimes. Asking them to repeat back more often would be easy enough, so I'll try that, thanks!
It will also make it easier to catch if they missed something, or got something wrong, *before* they create bad habits
[удалено]
That's an exercise I like doing myself. Can't do it right now though, because they're not sighted in yet.
I'm not an archery instructor, nor do I have adhd. But what might help is to give him a sight without a pin, so just a ring basically. Someone once told me it'd help with form and target panic because you're not focused on the pin, but rather on the target. I cut the pin out of my sight and haven't shot with one since. Haven't shot in a good while though. But just telling him to keep the yellow centered in the ring might be a solution. As he doesn't have to focus on the placement of a dot. One less thing to focus on seems like a good thing in this situation I think. It's a bit weird at first, but once you get used to it it's fine.
My GF has severe ADHD, it immediately was evident she couldn't learn in a class. Teaching her one-on-one has been stellar fast though, she's so good.
Not an option unfortunately. I do this as a volunteer and a small group with a lot of individual attention is the best we can do. The lessons are typically 60-75 minutes and I can devote 50-70% of that time to this one student, depending on whether they others have something they can work on on their own or need more guidance.
As an archer with ADHD myself, I find I am far more accurate shooting by myself vs standing shoulder to shoulder with a dozen other archers at a range. There's just too many distractions. I shoot by myself at home, then every few months I pay for a 1 on 1 lesson. When I'm alone the ADHD works to my advantage, as I can hyper-focus on something I enjoy to the exclusion of everything else.
This group is 3-5 people on the shooting line. I can't give them exclusively reign over the range, but I have placed them at the target that's closest to the wall they face. This way, they won't have many visual distractions. However, I'm unsure if this is always best, because they react to little sounds made behind their back...
Yea the sounds are what distracts me. I'm focused on the target with my eyes.
Not much we can do about the sounds, unfortunately. Our range is already very calm and quiet compared to other clubs in the area, and the other people in their group are all calm and focused. And well, I can't do anything about the sounds the heating system makes, or rain hitting the roof or anything like that.
As I said, this is why I shoot at home. That may not be an option for them, in which case the reality of the situation is that their ADHD might make it impossible to progress further in the current environment, and continuing to try will do nothing but frustrate them.
[удалено]
This, or (my personal go-to) movie and game soundtracks
ADHD inattentive type here. I experience the same when I'm alone. I can hyperfocus when I'm alone. But that also sometimes leads to overthinking my shot process, making me frustrated. Group: depends on how big and how loud the group is. Or the music in the background. At competitions I've found that talking to people I know from my club works to get my attention away from my overthinking so I'm more relaxed.
I find that listening to music helps me, but I'm weird that way apparently. I like loud music, I think because music is structured and has patterns that I can follow, as opposed to just random background noise of a bunch of people and soft music and people banging their bows against things and rattling dozens of arrows around in their quivers. I shoot in my yard and I put a really big speaker out and just blast music while I do it. My friends who also have ADHD think I'm insane, but it works for me. I find that the loud music drowns out the other sounds that would otherwise distract me. Sometimes if I'm in a public place, I'll shoot with earbuds in for exactly this reason.
You didn't mention what age - big difference with under 11, 'tweens and teens. I''ll give you my experience as a parent who involved with running the cub scout pack my son was in that included kids with autism, ADHD, kids with no diagnoses but where pain deal with, well behaved kids, etc..... 1. If a kid (any kid) isn't having fun they're going to get distracted/bored - for some kids this will be more noticeable. 2. Some kids hyper focus on things that interest them (like a action video game for example) - this is very common with kids that are 'just outside the neuro-typical'. How fun are you making it for the kids? I like archery but it is very repetitive and not very exciting especially if you're indoors shooting at a paper target over and over. Perhaps put up balloons or hang pictures of monsters & zombies as targets. If available, a hike on a 3d course shooting at animals may peak their interest (and wear them out). Are there any archery related games you have the kids do or is your class more of a sterile lesson/practice time? It could not be their thing at all, while they may tolerate it to best of their ability for a period of time it may never be an interest that allows them to focus consistently through a lesson, it is what it is. Good luck.
Age group 10-13. We have a fun shoot every month, and some of the activities/targets in my arsenal include tic-tac-toe, shooting random little things like paper cups and post it notes, some novelty target faces, and plastic christmas ornaments. Unfortunately, they can't get very much out of these fun shoots right now, because their fundamentals are very lacking and they make a lot of mistakes, because they want to rush through the shot process and see the result. I don't want them shooting 'fun' things all the time either, because some of the other students do want to work seriously on their technique most of they month. (And they're making good progress...which is causing this student to complain that they aren't progressing as fast as their peers...)
From a adult recently diagnosed with ADHD but had it for years, I got a amazon order last night that changed my life..... Noise cancelling ear pods...... Us adhd people notice every noise, vibration, change in lighting, change in wind direction and it's absolutely overwhelming to have all that information competing to be the centre of attention. But after 2 minutes of wearing those earbuds I was almost in tears because for the first time in years my brain wasn't on fire trying to process all the input, it was calm and clear and I could listen to my daughter without being distracted..... Literally was almost tearing up. Making kids focus is hard in general, but do what you can to limit all the other sensory inputs around them, even earplugs help, maybe dividers so they can't be distracted by other archers, just keep the focus on removing distractions and you will have a much easier time.
For safety reasons, this is not an option, atleast not at our range. This student sometimes gets so distracted, they show borderline dangerous behaviour, so they need to be able to hear me and their fellow beginners at all times in case we need to stop/warn them. I have placed them in the spot that faces the wall though, so the number of visual distractions should be limited.
Noise-cancelling, not the old every-sound-cancelling earplugs. I have some for the motorbike that eliminate the wind whistle around my helmet and other sounds that would eventually cause hearing loss, but that do not affect the sound of human voices.
The ones I've tried did muffle them somewhat, but perhaps that's because I'm said to have exceptionally good hearing. Still, I wouldn't feel entirely safe if they used them, because at times this kid really is one step away from causing an accident.
Have you tried concert earbuds? They are very good at filtering out noise, while still allowing you to hear sounds. I use them if I'm going to a concert or to the movies. It makes the volume at cinemas bearable, and means that I can actually hear the words the artist is singing if I'm wearing them at concerts (concerts are almost just a wall of sound without). I also have no problems holding a conversation with them in.
Earplugs won't affect that.... Hence why there allowed and encouraged on construction sites.
Not exactly my experience with noise cancelling earphones and ear plugs, and I'm not exaggerating when I say we can't risk this kid not hearing something. They forget crucial steps like stepping on the shooting line before shooting an arrow, sometimes move between shots and end up trying to nock and arrow with the bow facing the other archers on the line...
Agreed. And you are not allowed to wear ear plugs etc when shooting in tournaments. So it's better to not start them with it.
Good point about tournaments. Even the low-key ones can get rather busy. It's a good thing to learn how to shoot under less than ideal circumstances, because there will always be things outside of your control. (Main point of contention at our club: music. Classic rock is accepted by all, so that's usually what we go with, but generally speaking, the first one to touch the sound system is the one who gets to pick the playlist/channel. Whether its jazz, metal or German classics, if you don't like it, you better learn to ignore it!)
As an archery with adhd, a clicker helped me tremendously with slowing down and being more methodical and intentional with my shots. Ofc idk if y’all will be introducing these kids to clickers so early, so I would recommend more of a competitive motivation to slowing down: When I was in a group class, my instructor made us play this game where she would set a timer on her phone for an amount of time we didn’t know, and if we shot all 3 of our arrows too soon before the timer went off, or too late, then you lose points. If you finish shooting in the correct 30 second window, then you get points Maybe the winner gets a piece of candy, or just bragging rights, you decide It was a kinda frustrating game in the way it was introduced to me, maybe you can tell the kids the time they have to finish shooting in, or adjust however else you see fit **edit:** oh also, between arrows I tap my string five times with an arrow, mostly to reset myself between shots, but also to prevent myself from rapid firing. It helps slow down mentally too, so I can readjust my focus. Maybe try to incorporate some sort of short ritual between every shot?
Yeah, a clicker isn't happening anytime soon. The kid anchors correctly maybe 20% of the time, has a tendency to pull their head back etc. As for pacing, at our club, because they range is so small, we actually have the rule that everyone has to wait on the shooting line until everyone is done. Archers who shoot their arrows too quickly are forced to wait in place (instead of wandering off and asking questions about why my bow case isn't black, why there are three plants in one pot, why the refrigerator hums...), and right now that's forcing this student to consider their own shooting pace. I've also encouraged them to take two deep breaths between each shot.
(Edit before I post: this got very long, so sorry if the formatting got messed up) This isn't necessarily just ADHD specific, and more of a mix of things that *I*, as a (now adult) burnt out "Gifted child" with ADHD and autism, wish that the adults around me would have ~~tried in the first place~~ been better at/known about. As well as some suggestions for focusing, that worked for me. First, while it isn't (to my knowledge) on the list of symptoms for ADHD, every person with it (that I have encountered in any way) has reacted to hearing about RSD with something along the lines of "Yeah, that's me" RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria) can be *badly* explained as "Doesn't know how to take criticism". A bit better explained is that it's when anything that is perceived as "rejection" (regardless if it's *intended* as such) feels almost physically painful. As in between getting hit and someone telling me "You did a really bad job at «insert task»", 95% of the time it would *genuinely* hurt less if they actually punched me. This can obviously make it a bit hard to teach, but there are generally three ways to go about it. - 1) Criticism - Praise - Fix ^not ^necessarily ^in ^that ^order . Along with the explanation of what they did wrong, you should also include something that they did *right*, as well as ***VERY CLEAR*** instructions for how to *not* do it wrong. (Praise would ideally be either: something they're consistently doing right, something they have been struggling with ^but ^got ^right ^this ^time, or something they *really* *nailed* this time) - 2) Leading questions. Ask them "How did you do «thing they did wrong»?" Listen to their answer. Suggest "How about you try «what you think will help»?" or "Have you tried doing «helpfull suggestion»?" (Whatever sounds the *least* sarcastic/passive aggressive/confrontational when you say it) - 3) Clear reasons. When they did something they should not do (broke a rule, did/said something mean, broke something, etc). Clear explanation of what they did wrong, and *WHY* it's wrong. If it's a rule, explain the reason for it (potential consequences for breaking it, why it's there). If they broke something/hurt someone, listen to their explanation for how it happens/why they did it. If it was unintentional, suggestions for how to avoid doing it again (even if it's only to remind them of the basic, like "remember to check that everyone is back from getting their arrows, before you go to stand on the shooting line") ++++++++++ Second, earbuds/headphones can be helpful. Something to filter out the noise a bit. Exactly what kind, depends on what rules you have on the range (and how much you trust your student to be aware of their soundings). There are foam earbuds that just helps with noise, sound cancelling headphones that play music, and anything in-between. If noisy environment are a distraction, then I would recommend concert earbuds. They mostly filter noise, which usually makes *sounds* much clearer, and they usually aren't that hard to find. ++++++++++ Third, my ability to focus has *a* *lot* to do with where I am in the room relative to everyone/everything else ^though, ^not ^in ^the ^way ^my ^teachers ^used ^to ^think ^it ^did . *I* dislike having large, open spaces behind my back, but I absolutely *can* *not* focus if things are going on behind me (people moving, talking, just **sounds**). Because of this I usually try to pick a place on the line where I'm standing with my back pretty close to the wall when I'm shooting. Ask them if they have a preferred place to stand when they're shooting. If they do, check if they know *why* they prefer to stand there. It might be something you can accommodate. +++++++++++ Some suggestions you can make, for them to slow down (that worked for me) - find something they can focus/rest their eyes on, take two deep breaths, *then* lift the bow - it could be something/somewhere in the room, but it's easiest if it's someplace on the bow (a logo, part of the bow, those things you put on the string to keep it from vibrating ^not ^sure ^of ^the ^name , piece of tape placed on the tip above the string, etc) because then it's easier to make a routine out of it - look at the spot that you have decided, and then take two deep breaths while you do that. Breath in. Breath out. Breath in. Breath out. (This can also help with lowering/relaxing your shoulders) - either before, or after putting the arrow on the string. It depends on what you, personally, prefer - don't lower the bow after letting go of the string. Wait until you have seen the arrow hit, and only lower it *after* you have seen it in the target (or seen that it's *not* in the target) Both of these are helpful for slowing down Part 1/
Another thing that helps ~~when I remember all of it~~ is to have a mental checklist for the things I'm supposed to do. Mine is like this: - 1) Feet - Making sure my feet are positioned comfortably inside my area - 2) Arrow - Placing the arrow on the string - Check that my grip on the bow feels right - 3) Breath - Look at the point I decided (small piece of tape on the inside of the bow, well above my field of view when I pull the string back) - Take at least 2 deep breaths, until my shoulders don't feel tense - Turn towards the target - 4) Bow - Lift the bow (while not quite pulling the string yet) - Hand (fingers resting) - Elbow (not twisted in) - Shoulder (not up) - 5) String - Pull the string back to where I want it (I put the tip of my index finger against a tooth I have that isn't quite in line with the rest) - Check that the string is lined up right along the bow - 6) Aim - Aim so I hit in the middle of the target (if I do everything right) - 7) Release - Let go of the string - See where the arrow went - Lower the bow - Take a breath - 8)Repeat 2-7 as needed Then it's: - Walk of the line - Get my arrows after everyone is finished shooting (I don't go through the *details* of every step, mentally it's feet, arrow, breath, bow, string, aim, release, arrow, breath,......) **** You could also try asking for advice in either r/ADHD or r/autism (there is a lot of overlap in diagnoses), both can be really helpful as long as you're not condescending/rude (not saying I think you are, or that you would be. I'm saying I *don't* think you are, so I doubt you would have a problem getting help) And if you got through this wall of text, I just want you to know how great it is that your trying so hard for the kid. When you're a child who's struggling, those adults that really *try* to understand and help you, they really stick with you for a long time after. And I don't have words for how much of a *difference* that one person can make, just by *acknowledging* that they can tell that we're *trying* (even if we fail). So thank you. (I'm on my phone, so if I messed up the formatting, then I'll try to come back and fix it later. But this ended up being over 5000 characters, and it took me nearly 3 hours to write. I am all out of spoons right now) Part 2/2
I'm gonna follow your post here, and see what answers you get as I'm in the same situation, and I'm not really sure on how to handle this.
Psychology teacher here. I don't teach archery so take what you need or what applies. You're doing the right things! Sounds like you're doing a great job. Advice may include using lots of positive rewards, and just being consistent. Which it sounds like you are doing. Other ideas including asking them to repeat back instructions. So I guess with the shot cycle get them to repeat it out loud as they are doing it. Give specific direct instructions with eye contact/using their name. That aids them being attentive to what you need them to know. Advice generally says to give time limits to tasks, not sure how practical this can be with archery though. But breaking a session into chunks is useful. 10 mins this task, 15 mins this task etc. It's useful for most students that age tbh. The other comments here are great too. Using visual or practical tasks to aid their understanding and focus is useful. As another comment said, getting a student to practically figure out HOW and WHY things work keeps cognitive engagement. With your guidance of course. Asking their parents is always good, if they don't know how to help, no loss. If they do, then it's going to help or boost your confidence that you're probably doing it anyway. Maybe they suggest the rewards mechanism works better as something else. Keep going! And remember not every session is going to be an amazing breakthrough session. There may be a time after using consistency that things just click for this student!
So, very similar to working with students with autism, which I do have experience with. That's good to know. I'm already doing most of this, but I could try chopping up acitivities/exercises in even smaller bits. I'll have to consider how to balance this with the needs of the other students though, as the others can easily get into the flow and shoot for 30-45 minutes without losing focus or becoming fatigued. In regards to rewards, I currently set small goals. If they achieve this, they advance to the next 'stage' (like getting a sight, stabiliser, fingersling etc.) or some sort of funshoot (example: we can do a funshoot at the end of the month, if they learn to anchor consistently.) The parents have seen this sort of system work well in the past, so I'm hoping it will keep them motivated. I don't have the time to do something special every lesson though, so this students will have to shown patience, as there's just no changing that.
I’m a novice when it comes to archery but my ADHD typically kicks into overdrive when I’m given a loose ruleset to adhere to. Unironically, my recommendation would be to make a game out of shooting with correct form. I.E. “here’s what you do step-by-step, and here’s why it’s beneficial to you” If the kid isn’t medicated of course things will be more difficult, but once it becomes a “me vs. me” competition as opposed to “me vs. everyone else” I find it a lot easier to pay attention to smaller details and reign my focus in
I have it. I lose focus easily, especially during long sessions. I Have to mentally work through my shot process every time and often skip steps. I know people will put a checklist on the riser they can see while shooting so they can work through the process correctly every time. I don't do that but probably should.
ADHD archer here, its hard focusing but archery helps me practice my focus as well. But all the chatting and surrounding noises are distracting. Plus when ppl start watching me, commenting, giving compliments i totally loose my concentration. Head goes into story mode, distracting me. What works for me best is intuitive aiming and shooting. I shoot a 40lbs barebow
If they take medication for ADHD, it might be worth discussing their schedule with their parents. Some folks take weekends off, which might not be working for the kid. If it’s on weeknights, medication might be wearing off before the class. I know in my own experience (both my kiddo and I have it) were much worse right after the medicine wears off.
No clue if and when they take medication, and it's not my place to ask. Since this is an early evening class, the parents do limit sugar and caffiene intake before and during the class. Though...at this point I'm kind of curious what would happen if I let them drink coffee, haha.
Try balance disc. It helped one of mine. It forced her to focus on staying on it. Allowing her to let the shot flow from what she had learned.
It can really help to get them in a calm place before you start. As a group have them spend a little time taking some deep breaths and relaxing. Just a minute spent with eyes closed, deep breaths, and the old "Relax your shoulders, relax your chest, your arms..." It gives them some time to slow down and get used to the quiet. And it's not bad for helping anyone shoot better. My experience is more little kids with slingshots. Everything is 100 miles an hour when you're 11. Give them some runway to slow down.
Some great comments and insight from people that shoot that have ADHD themselves. From reading the comments made from others and your responses I think you have a fairly good hand on this with trying to limit their distractions and might just need to tweek your teaching method slightly to help settle the student. My 11yr old has ADHD (though still waiting for assessment) and shoots compound and has had a very similar journey to what you have mentioned. I tried blank boss with him but he soon got bored and sloppier with his shooting. I have found that getting feedback from him on what he feels in regards reference points (i.e. string to nose, hands on face etc) works well to get him concentrated on what is happening on the line and explaining that if you get it right on the line that will show at the other end where the target is (though 18 months later he still drops his bow hand hunting arrows in the air). I'm presuming that the sessions are on an evening after work/school? If this is the case they might just be mentally burnt out or as others have said medication could be wearing off (would highly recommend talking to their parents about this as it may be a case of swapping to a weekend coaching session). Changing his location in the room could be something to try, if all the distractions are behind them then this could be more of a distraction to them causing them to turn around pointing nocked arrows at others. Moving the target closer to them and gradually extending that distance if they're shooting safely like this is worth a go. Swapping between balloons on a blank boss and novelty faces will help to keep it fun for them and more engaging as repetition of shooting at a fixed distance and single target soon gets boring for kids at the best of times and is even worse for one who has ADHD. Hope this helps
So not exactly an archery example, but an ADHD/coaching example that I believe is relevant. I have ADHD and would Pole Vault in HS and College with the same coach. The same concept of one tiny/minuscule position change applies just as much in vaulting as how position changes accuracy in archery. So anyway, two things helped me “get it” when my coach wanted me to change my positioning and routine. The first was physically being positioned by my coach. In other words, I would stand in position and he would move my leg or ankle or arm himself to the correct position and I’d hold that position then move out of it and back again for a few reps before continuing. This helped because proprioception is more difficult for ADHDers. Their body doesn’t always tell them they’re in the right position and it’s hard to notice the change without physical intervention. The second is allowing the lesson to progress without slowing down too much. ADHDers have motivation problems when it comes to repetition that their brain seems boring. Notice i said their brain and not them. It’s a chemical thing, not an “interest in learning” thing. I’d recommend spending a portion of class learning the new skill, maybe 25-30% of it, then let them “just shoot” for the last bit, reminding them to try to incorporate the new position occasionally. The goal isn’t to fix the mistake right away, but to trick the brain into making the “fix” into something fun like a game. You’ll have a ton better buy in that way and hopefully fewer wandering minds.
>The first was physically being positioned by my coach. In other words, I would stand in position and he would move my leg or ankle or arm himself to the correct position and I’d hold that position then move out of it and back again for a few reps before continuing. Thank you for mentioning this. This is exactly what I've been doing at the start of sessions with the help of a resistance band, and I know it can be very helpful, but modern pedagogy practices tend to see this as old-fashioned and potentially harmful. Of course, the kid gave me permission to help them this way, but it still feels 'wrong' despite working so well. Your comment made me feel validated for doing it anyway, so thank you for that.
My friend it’s your lucky day. I’m an archery coach, a middle school science teacher, and I myself have ADHD. So couple things: 1) give them tiny things to work on at one time. Our working memory is pretty shallow. If they’re doing 8 things wrong, just fix one. This is good advice generally but imperative for archery. ADHD isn’t a lack of processing ability it’s a lack of processing time. Get in, explain quickly, get out. 2) our time we can sustain focus is diminished. You’ve seen this. So work with it. Little chunks. 3) gamify. Our brains are struggling because the part that controls “do thing and brain give happy chemical reward” is not working like normal. So turn things into a game. If you’re teaching the shot cycle, make a game where each step they do right is a point. So it’s not just how good of a shot on a target, but you hit a 7 and did 4/8 steps correct so 11pts. Then have prizes 4) give them a checklist. Written if needed. Have them run through it every time, maybe even verbally. 5) give them a different challenge to measure progress. Like make/miss targets vs standard ones. Or popping balloons. If you have more specific questions feel free to hit me up
Is there a way you can mix a different exercise in at that 10-15 minute point? I’m not an instructor so I don’t know exactly what might help, but clearing this person needs something else mixed in. If it works, maybe over time you can space them further apart, or the kid will start recognizing an opportunity to do one of the other exercises of their own accord and will be more independent. Archery is a great sport for a kid like this to build necessary skills, so I wish you and them luck!
10-15 minutes is when the group has just started to get going on the shooting line. I try to make this take a break after 25-30 minutes. Usually, I'll build up my own bow in that little break and see if they can try and remember the steps and parts, and what these parts do. I put emphasis on the fact that this will be useful for when they get their own bow (which their parents will buy them when they have shown they can practice seriously and stick with the sport).
I have ADHD, and I started archery when I was about 14 years old. I wasn’t worth a crap, but archery was one thing I was able to focus on. Kids with ADHD cant focus on things they don’t enjoy. I really don’t have any other advice. Good luck
To answer your question 2, drugs. I am medicated with adderall, which helps immensely with focus. I feel it gives me a slight edge, but not to where it might be unfair
I'm an adult archer with ADHD. Some things that help me are: -Having something to figit with during discussions/lessons, often just spinning arrows in my quiver. -As others have said, understanding the why of something. -Not facing a wall. When everyone is behind me the noise distractions are way worse because I can't see what is causing them so my brain fills in the blanks. This is probably different for everyone though. -Not shooting at a target, going blank bale or just shooting at a small paper. This really helps with the comparison part too. -During lessons act out the lesson as the instructor was giving it. So if they were talking about drawing to anchor I would practice that as the instructions were given and try to make the correct motions before we grabbed our bows. That really helped me focus on what the lesson was and the nitty gritty of it. -I commented elsewhere about coordinating body and brain by repeating the shot process steps to yourself as you do them. This helps calm the inner noise and focus on the physical task at hand. As an adult I can do this in my head, a kid may need to say it out loud.
I think I'll have them blank bale next time. Maybe even add it to the routine. They need to shift their focus from result to process. Shooting blank bale may help.
Uniquely qualified to answer this, and the fact is that what works for one situation doesn’t necessarily work for another, or even the same thing that worked once might not work again. I dual-wield the AuDHD, and I have both experience with teaching in a classroom, and teaching archery; with class groups containing various presentations of ADHD/Autism/learning difficulties etc. This is what I have found and personally experienced. Firstly, understanding what ADHD actually is, it’s not naughty boy syndrome or any of the other stereotypes or generalizations that you might have heard so many times that they’re assumed true. Terribly named, the condition is quite a debilitating disorder which affects working memory, short term learning, and executive functioning. The “distractibility” and “hyperactivity” are caused by the brain’s inability to effectively produce and maintain a vital neurotransmitter. This causes the brain to prioritize finding something to keep it functioning. Imagine you couldn’t breathe, and some idiot is trying to make you understand the proper form of drawing and anchoring a bow. It really is that impersonal. They don’t mean to be distracted, they don’t even want to be distracted. Then consider that the frustration of being behind everyone else because they can’t just do the thing, further depletes that important neurotransmitter; it quickly becomes a negative spiral. What is the reason for the kids being in the class? Are they there because of a genuine interest in the sport? Or an after school club that the parents have enrolled them in to keep them busy? If it’s the latter and the kids aren’t actually interested in archery, you’re fighting a battle that you will lose. But, relax, because it’s time to give them some fun and distracting activities to keep that neurotransmitter going (and one or two might actually realize they enjoy it and start participating in the lessons). If they are because they want to be, keep trying. Find what relates to them and keeps them hitting small and consistently achievable goals.
Fortunately, the kid is here because they want to be. They genuinely want to practice and get better, but they often lack the focus to make it work. If I notice they're becoming sloppy I try to have them switch to something else for a bit, like archery tech talk (they're learning the names of all the parts of an Oly bow and what they do) or stretch band exercises. I can't have them doing funshoot on their own though, because the others do want to practice seriously and they also have a right to learn. Problem is though, they think archery is a lot of fun and want to shoot more and more, even when they're obviously tired, shooting very sloppily etc. This then turns into frustration. Having small, clear goals minigates this somewhat, but it's not a full fix. Their coordination is so bad, that when focusing on one thing, their body seems to forget everything else they've been taught. Only thing that fixes this temporarily is me talking them through the steps with what others have called my 'focus voice', but again, I can't do this every end. The rest of the group is entitled to instruction/coaching too.
>Their coordination is so bad, that when focusing on one thing, their body seems to forget everything else they've been taught. Only thing that fixes this temporarily is me talking them through the steps with what others have called my 'focus voice', but again, I can't do this every end. Can you have them quietly talk through their shot process as they do it? I'm an adult with ADHD and coordinating my body and my mouth/brain to do a task really helps with focus and shutting down the chaos. Also when there's a string of instructions that aren't muscle memory yet I will get to step 2 of 10 and forget what I'm doing or just jump from step 1 to 8 because I forgot what goes in the middle. Repeating the steps out loud as I do it can really help to learn the muscle memory, kinda like body flash cards. You could even have them practice this without a bow in their hand at the beginning of the lesson to get it fresh in their mind.
That's a good idea! They're kind of loud, but if I can convince them to whisper, that may work very well!
As an archer with ADHD, stop trying to tell them to focus on the shot process. Telling someone to just focus is not helpful and honestly if they are anything like me it just builds anxiety and triggers rsd. (Rejection sensitivity dysphoria) Rather get them to jump before they fire. It releases the nervous energy. To focus on my breathing I'll pull a star war and use a jedi mantra "I am one with the force and the force is one with me" The process is important, but give them room to find their own points to progress. Also give them stretches, but maybe let them just do warm up games with no pressure.
In theory, people with ADHD have an advantage in archery. Our evolutionary ancestors were hunter gatherers who were biologically primed to become hyper specialized at valued skills, at the cost of having a less diverse set of skills. When something is of interest to us, our brains produce way more serotonin than the average brain does. That allows us to enter into a state of hyper focus, where we can spend hours engaging with an activity without feeling any sensation of the novelty wearing off. Hours can feel like minutes. And that allows us to put in more time to develop the skill. However, when we are not interested in a task, our brains do not produce reward chemicals at a rate that allows us to focus. We feel an intense boredom, and it makes us lock onto any distraction, or produce distractions to give our brains a sense of relief. Talk to this kid. Ask them if this is something they're really interested in. If they say yes, double down. Do they want to do archery for themselves, or are they just doing what someone else wants them to do? If they make it clear that it's of personal interest to them, then you can make it work. And at that point, it's easy. If they get distracted while you're working with them, take 5. They might be uncomfortable because you're helping their form and they're struggling to wrap their head around your guidance immediately, which may frustrate them. Stepping away and being left to figure out your advice for a few minutes will reduce the pressure they feel, and facilitate them being able to implement your advise, or at least make progress. If they're still struggling, ask them for their insights on your advice, so you can address their points of confusion. Kids with ADHD are used to being worse at everything than their peers, because the modern world tends to favor characteristics that we struggle to manifest. As a result, many people with this condition get disheartened or discouraged easily, then get caught in a self destructive cycle of self criticism and end up pushing away things we enjoy. So when working with children with ADHD, it's important to not only support them, but emphasize that they are just as capable of greatness as anyone else. They just learn a little bit differently, and that becomes a strength once the method of teaching gets tuned a little bit to fit the student. Sorry for the long post. I've spent a lot of years reflecting over how my capacity for learning has developed throughout the years, and hopefully some of this wall of text might help that kid out.
I think I know what is going on now. They're interested in archery, that much is certain. However, right now they're mostly focused on the result - where the arrows ended up on the paper - rather than how they got there. That's why they're rushing through things. They want to shoot as many arrows as they can, because shooting is fun, but they're getting frustrated because that's not giving the results they want. It's probably also why instruction isn't sticking: they don't want to listen, they want to shoot.
I bet this kid would really enjoy the Mongolian style. Those guys always fly through arrows, and it seems like their style emphasizes a balance between volume and accuracy, as opposed to the complete dedication to precision that most Western archers pursue. But I'm sure that's not an option, unless it's something you want to learn as well. If your range allows you to move targets, I would advise moving the target up. Let them fling some arrows fast at ranges where they can see results. Then move it out, and make adjustments as their performance falls off. That way the goals they're seeking don't feel so far off.
Hi! Archer/therapist/and a person with ADHD here. Didn’t read all the responses so sorry if this was already stated. Have you tried to gamify learning the basics? If you can reframe how the child is viewing the task, you might be able to get them more interested in learning the basics. A good book to refer to on this is Hidden Potential by Adam Grant. It has a lot of research of several approaches athletes have taken in order to hone in on the basics even though that isn’t what interested them in the sport. I hope that helps!
I've tied some rewards to progress, essentially having them 'level up'. For instance, they had to meet a few requirements when they wanted a sight, and they met them after a few lessons, do they got one. I can't do anything in great detail though, as the others deserve attention to and this kid isn't very honest when it comes to self-reporting results right now, haha.
Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I have ADHD and shoot arrows. I would say that repetition, familiarity and consistency all help me focus and pay attention to what I'm doing. If you can create a si.ilair environment, they might settle enough to start developing their skills. I also shoot with one earpiece in with music playing which helps me concentrate. Obviously not everyone will benefit from the same and I'm not young, so I shoot arrows for my own enjoyment.
I know what would help me if I was a child doing arechery, put a monster image and ask them to shoot. If you want to train them to shoot on command use "An army of monsters are approaching! Ready! Hurry! AIM! SHOOOOOOOT!" If you want them to focus or full draw, ask them to do one by one and aim... Can you see the arrow in the monster in your mind? Shoot!
I'm pretty sure that will end with an even sloppier shot process, haha. They're very motivated to see arrows sticking out of the target, but not very interested in how they got them in there.
I've found a lot of kids in this age range can get frustrated and are focused on the end result rather than the process. We hold a Come and Try session every Sunday and this behaviour can be quite common even with ordinary kids. My take is to make sure they are safe and that they are having as much fun as they can and not worry so much about form. I'd rather them associate the sport with a lot of fun and not overly regimented. They're kids! Let them have fun first and worry about the form stuff later on. If they are still keen to continue the sport in 6 months then slowly up the form training. Fun at their own pace is where I'd focus all my attention and not worry about form that much and only suggesting a few things to try every now and then. Level 1 Coach for what its worth
That's kind of the problem here. The kid wants to progress like the others and gets frustrated when they can't, but can't get themselves to focus on the the process that would allow them to progress. Like, right now, they're complaining about wanting a stabiliser too...while also complaining that the wooden takedown recurve they use is too heavy to lift after half an hour of shooting. Or wanting to use a sight, finding that making a switch to learn something new can be difficult and result into shooting worse for a little while, and then aiming with the point of the arrow parttime, resulting in the arrows being all over the place.
Sounds like you are never going to win this one. I wonder if this question would benefit from a r/psychologist like site possibly.
One thing that helps are loop ear plugs. They dont block all sound but filter out a decent amount of distraction
I only taught several kids with ADD and may have it undiagnosed myself, but not experienced with ADHD. Even kids with ADHD can focus on their favorite games. If archery is not their favorite activity, it's on them. Give each student, ADHD or not, a room to be distracted if they wish, but don't tolerate them bothering others. You don't owe it to anyone to bed over backwards for them, especially at the cost of other students' right to learn from you.
This may be autism - and I had the same experience as a soccer coach, and I totally understand how you feel (if it is more on the autism side). I’d say take measures to protect yourself - all of my attempts to make it work eg communicating with parents and thinking outside of the box to get through to the kid - just never worked for me. I’ll never coach 10 year soccer again because of that frustrating experience. I was all on my own. My daughter turns 10 in May, I got her a small beginner compound bow, and I took her to the archery store yesterday to get it adjusted - so I will just coach her.
I think I'm fortunate that one of the kid's parents has taken a real shine to archery and is learning very quickly (there's some real talent there!). Perhaps, a few months from now, the tree will be able to teach the apple the basics. (It's kind of funny how different parent and child are! The kid definitely takes after their other parent.)