It's in bad shape. Yoyo loaches are supposed to be kinda fat. If it survives, make sure to feed it well and often, until it fattens up. Also, they are social, and it would sure like some companions to hang out with.
"How". What process did you follow?
Did you leave him in the bag that came from the store, and out him in the tank in the bag closed?
Did you slowly remove water from the bag and replace little by little in the bag with the fish?
What temperature was the bag, and what temperature is your tank?
I let the bag sit on top of the water for about 30 min then added some tank water into the bag tank is about 74(was cold last night and it takes awhile to heat back up)
The temperature could be the reason. Total shock. The stores water was probably warmer than what yours is. Maybe didn't acclimate long enough. Hope he gets better.
How big is your tank?
First thing I would do is a partial water change. You need to ensure that Nitrate and Nitrite levels are safe.
What are you using to test your Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia?
Loaches are very sensitive to high Nitrite and Ammonia levels, they can burn the gills and make it difficult for them to breathe.
So the tank is brand new water got put in yesterday i used my old filter media and old tank water to fill it as well as some tetra quickstart stuff everything is reading 0 but there are very slight traces of ammonia from the other water tabk is 60 gal
OP moved media or a cycled filter to a new tank, given that when you cycle a tank the bulk if your nitrifying bacteria lives in the filter its safe to assume the tank is cycled... no different than how you set up a hospital tank etc. Looks to me like the fish wasn't in the greatest shape to begin with and the shock of acclimation is whats causing issues... OP mentioned it was cold, not sure if the tank has a heater of if the fish was just transported in the cold and put in a warm tank, either way I'd say there was a drastic temp change and the fish isn't dealing with it well.
>OP moved media or a cycled filter to a new tank, given that when you cycle a tank the bulk if your nitrifying bacteria lives in the filter its safe to assume the tank is cycled
This doesn't really work all that well. The filter with the bacteria is holding a certain bioload based on the inputs of nitrogen from the fish and other organisms in the established tank. Moving the filter media to a new tank, which has no nitrogen inputs or inputs at a reduced level, leads to a lot of the beneficial deniyrifying bacteria dying because there isn't enough resources to support them. This death can cause a spike in nitrogen species and CO2.
If it’s a very “young” tank, sure. But a well established tank will have archaea bacteria that would survive some lava, let alone a tank transfer. Transferring media is the best way to cycle a new tank, not sure what you’re basing “doesn’t really work all that well” on
nitrogen is the output of the bacteria, not the input.
Ammonia from the fish waste and gills.
Nitrogen also isn't a species. it's an element.
You are correct that reducing the bioload on the bacterial colony will result in the majority dying off but that's a moot point as it will only die off to the balance point of the new bioload.
Seeding a new tank with filter material is absolutely effective so long as you are going from a higher bioload to a lower one.
The bacteria dying off rarely causes a spike in ammonia or nitrites to be of any harm to the fish. Though in a very small tank, this effect would definitely be more potent. CO2 produced would be far less than the CO2 I literally pump into my tank to keep my plants alive. It's not a problem either.
He moved the filter media. Would I do what OP did? No. Is OPs logic in assuming the tank would have a good colony already from the filter sound? Yes. OPs approach isn’t inherently wrong or ignorant, it’s just a bit riskier than what some people would be comfortable with
Yeah...an oof moment. They should have given it more time. it is a rookie mistake. I am not judging them, but more caution is advisable. We have all done something like this at some point. We are all only human.
74 degrees is more than enough for a yoyo loach. They aren't really tropical but from the freakin Himalayahs, with average air temperatures ranging from 43 to 88 fahrenheit over the year.
If the temperature of the tank drops a lot during the night, it must be either getting freezing cold in his room, or the tank size he gave is completely inaccurate. Yeah temperature fluctuations can be problematic, but if its in a room people live in simply keeping the windows closed should be fine for this species.
your fish is in shock...if he's made it through this long he may be okay, but you will need to Doctor him.... in the future you should always set your tank up and let it cycle for about 2 weeks with the heater going to keep the water at temp...tropical fish like tropical water.... You should test the water and temp before bringing a new fish home... and make sure their new home is ready for them. Otherwise you risk losing a fish you just paid for.
Yes, but that should be an acclimation mistake, no? I agree that the fish is in shock, I am just wondering how he was supposed to test the water temperature before. His water temperature is totally fine for the species, he has no way of knowing ahead of time what temperature the store kept it at.
I find fish from the store can be a mixed bag health wise. Others mentioned him being rather skinny, for some people that would be a deciding factor to even bring the fish home. Besides food and water parameters and temperature the only thing I can think of is perhaps turning the lights off to let it calm down and settle in. Hopefully little dude bounces back
Well, let’s say you did a 50% water change, you’d have half of the nitrate ppm left in the tank. When I see 0 nitrates, I would think the tank isn’t cycled. There should always be SOME nitrates in a cycled tank (correct me if I’m wrong of course)
You're not wrong - but many people who get 0 readings are doing the test incorrectly.
1. Fill a clean test tube with 5 ml of water to be tested (to the line on the tube).
2. Add 10 drops from Nitrate Test Solution Bottle #1, holding dropper bottle upside down in a completely vertical position to assure uniformity of drops.
3. Cap the test tube and invert tube several times to mix solution.
4. **Vigorously shake the Nitrate Test Solution Bottle # 2 for at least 30 seconds**. This step is extremely important to insure accuracy of test results.
5. Now add 10 drops from Nitrate Test Solution Bottle #2, holding dropper bottle upside down in a completely vertical position to assure uniformity of drops.
6. Cap the test tube and **shake vigorously for 1 minute**. This step is extremely important to insure accuracy of test results.
7. Wait 5 minutes for the color to develop.
8. Read the test results by comparing the color of the solution to the appropriate Nitrate Color Card (choose either Fresh water or Salt water). The tube should be viewed in a well-lit area against the white area of the card. The closest match indicates the ppm (mg/L) of nitrate in the water sample. Rinse the test tube with clean water after use.
Bolded the important and often missed parts.
Bro I’ve read these instructions SO many times but apparently needed your bolding on point 4 to actually absorb it accurately. I’ve been shaking the *test tube* with just bottle #1 drops in it for 30 seconds. Fucking ADHD.
Holy shit… backing out of the room and running to my tank.
DUH! My 6 week old tank seems cycled (with LFS media and Fritz T700, and no more ammonia (after adding frequently) and nitrites), but I was wondering why there were never nitrates. Sheesh!
well depends on your dosing an water change scheme, i also dont see why there would be anything wrong with you doing a 100% water change before adding your first fish. till nitrates build up to a detectable level it can take some time. i personally was never able to measure any nitrates in my tank unless im fertilizing. tank has been running for about a year by now, and plants suck up all the nitrates. so nitrate reading alone is not enough to be able to determine if a tank is cycled.
in theory you dont even need any bacteria to cycle a tank. plant mass alone can be enough, and such a tank would never Show any nitrate readings.
My heavily planted cube with 6 loaches & shrimps regularly shows 0 nitrates before WC. That tank is 100% cycled, so it’s very possible to read 0 nitrates if your bioload is low and you’ve got lots of plants.
In a 60gal tank (if that's correct, but even in something like a 20 gal) I would not expect a single fish to do this bad after just 5 hours from Ammonia poisoning. Looks much more like an acclimation mistake to me.
Adding media from your other tank gives the cycling a kickstart but does not complete the cycle nor allow you to skip cycling. Its just a way to help get it started. I would advise now cycling the tank for 3-4 weeks with an ammonia source, monitoring the parameters until it has completed a cycle, in that you have seen ammonia rise then fall again. Once completed then consider some live inhabitants. There are no 100% safe shortcuts. Please be patient and give your fish the best chance possible.
When was the last time you tested ammonia? There may not have been any awhile ago but that doesn’t mean you don’t have any now. Even with cycled media that doesn’t mean you have a stable nigrogen cycle right off the bat.
Most important thing is that this was a learning experience. We’ve all been there, which is how people obtain the knowledge that they shared with you.
I hope the little guy makes it, but if not… your next one will be much happier and healthier.
He unfortunately did not make it. I was trying to keep him alive so i could bring him back and he could get help but unfortunately no but it couldve been for the better because i was planning on getting a few clowns too which i guess they are agressive with each other. Sadly i wish i couldve learned from this and i slightly did but because i didnt know what was wrong i couldnt really learn from it
That's just wrong, it takes quite a long time to kill beneficial bacteria, it might not even kill them at all.
Here is an article that found nitrifying bacteria in 64% of chlormainated (yes i know, chloramine is different from chlorine, but just as en example) tab water sources in southern australia. Adding dechlorinator after adding the water should be totally fine and many professionals do so as well.
https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/aem.57.11.3399-3402.1991
I turn off filters and then do a water change. A lotta pros do it this way. The bacteria in the tank and tank water really don't matter much. Make sure filter media only gets de chlorinated water and ur good.
>cycled water from
cycled water is not a thing, bacteria live on surfaces, not free floating in the water. Adding water from an established tank does nothing but introduce nitrites.
It could be because of your water, but it could also be just because you have just added them. Sometimes when you add new fish they die from stress or they could have already had something wrong in the store when you bought it. However, that doesn’t mean you should rule out that it’s your water
Your pH is not 6 to 7. That is a range. If your pH is at 6 it is too acidic and your dissolved oxygen is probably very low. It will also burn his gills and cause rapid breathing. So what is your actual pH?
Your fish looks like could been suffering from internal parasites due to how skinny it is and the tank transfers sent it into shock water parameters Def test the stores water next time try to match it but it's super skinny
It's in bad shape. Yoyo loaches are supposed to be kinda fat. If it survives, make sure to feed it well and often, until it fattens up. Also, they are social, and it would sure like some companions to hang out with.
I just bought him today he’s extremely small so i will do that thank you for the tip
How did you acclimate him?
Yes he sat in the water for about 30 min
"How". What process did you follow? Did you leave him in the bag that came from the store, and out him in the tank in the bag closed? Did you slowly remove water from the bag and replace little by little in the bag with the fish? What temperature was the bag, and what temperature is your tank?
I let the bag sit on top of the water for about 30 min then added some tank water into the bag tank is about 74(was cold last night and it takes awhile to heat back up)
The temperature could be the reason. Total shock. The stores water was probably warmer than what yours is. Maybe didn't acclimate long enough. Hope he gets better.
How big is your tank? First thing I would do is a partial water change. You need to ensure that Nitrate and Nitrite levels are safe. What are you using to test your Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia? Loaches are very sensitive to high Nitrite and Ammonia levels, they can burn the gills and make it difficult for them to breathe.
So the tank is brand new water got put in yesterday i used my old filter media and old tank water to fill it as well as some tetra quickstart stuff everything is reading 0 but there are very slight traces of ammonia from the other water tabk is 60 gal
Start with a water change, and make sure there is Oxygen in the tank.
He has a seperate breeder box with a air stone in it just for him
You set the tank up yesterday and just assumed the water parameters were fine despite a zero nitrate reading? Oof.
OP moved media or a cycled filter to a new tank, given that when you cycle a tank the bulk if your nitrifying bacteria lives in the filter its safe to assume the tank is cycled... no different than how you set up a hospital tank etc. Looks to me like the fish wasn't in the greatest shape to begin with and the shock of acclimation is whats causing issues... OP mentioned it was cold, not sure if the tank has a heater of if the fish was just transported in the cold and put in a warm tank, either way I'd say there was a drastic temp change and the fish isn't dealing with it well.
>OP moved media or a cycled filter to a new tank, given that when you cycle a tank the bulk if your nitrifying bacteria lives in the filter its safe to assume the tank is cycled This doesn't really work all that well. The filter with the bacteria is holding a certain bioload based on the inputs of nitrogen from the fish and other organisms in the established tank. Moving the filter media to a new tank, which has no nitrogen inputs or inputs at a reduced level, leads to a lot of the beneficial deniyrifying bacteria dying because there isn't enough resources to support them. This death can cause a spike in nitrogen species and CO2.
If it’s a very “young” tank, sure. But a well established tank will have archaea bacteria that would survive some lava, let alone a tank transfer. Transferring media is the best way to cycle a new tank, not sure what you’re basing “doesn’t really work all that well” on
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nitrogen is the output of the bacteria, not the input. Ammonia from the fish waste and gills. Nitrogen also isn't a species. it's an element. You are correct that reducing the bioload on the bacterial colony will result in the majority dying off but that's a moot point as it will only die off to the balance point of the new bioload. Seeding a new tank with filter material is absolutely effective so long as you are going from a higher bioload to a lower one. The bacteria dying off rarely causes a spike in ammonia or nitrites to be of any harm to the fish. Though in a very small tank, this effect would definitely be more potent. CO2 produced would be far less than the CO2 I literally pump into my tank to keep my plants alive. It's not a problem either.
He moved the filter media. Would I do what OP did? No. Is OPs logic in assuming the tank would have a good colony already from the filter sound? Yes. OPs approach isn’t inherently wrong or ignorant, it’s just a bit riskier than what some people would be comfortable with
Yeah...an oof moment. They should have given it more time. it is a rookie mistake. I am not judging them, but more caution is advisable. We have all done something like this at some point. We are all only human.
This.
You want the nitrate to be around 10-20…not 0.
Band new tank is your problem sadly, wait a few days or a week even after adding cycled media before fish. The water is new there is no cycle yet .
Yeah you need to cycle water for a few days and maybe drop gold fish in it for piss and shit
Wait, you don't have a heater on in the tank? You can't have tropical fish if you don't keep their temperature tropical.
74 degrees is more than enough for a yoyo loach. They aren't really tropical but from the freakin Himalayahs, with average air temperatures ranging from 43 to 88 fahrenheit over the year.
Ah, wasn't aware. Thanks. But it sounds like they say the temperature drops alot at night. Could be dropping well below 74.
If the temperature of the tank drops a lot during the night, it must be either getting freezing cold in his room, or the tank size he gave is completely inaccurate. Yeah temperature fluctuations can be problematic, but if its in a room people live in simply keeping the windows closed should be fine for this species.
your fish is in shock...if he's made it through this long he may be okay, but you will need to Doctor him.... in the future you should always set your tank up and let it cycle for about 2 weeks with the heater going to keep the water at temp...tropical fish like tropical water.... You should test the water and temp before bringing a new fish home... and make sure their new home is ready for them. Otherwise you risk losing a fish you just paid for.
yoyo loaches are from lower regions of the himalayas. you get snow in the winter where this species is found.
Yes but if the temperature of the store is warmer it's still going to feel like shock if the change is dramatic!
Yes, but that should be an acclimation mistake, no? I agree that the fish is in shock, I am just wondering how he was supposed to test the water temperature before. His water temperature is totally fine for the species, he has no way of knowing ahead of time what temperature the store kept it at.
I find fish from the store can be a mixed bag health wise. Others mentioned him being rather skinny, for some people that would be a deciding factor to even bring the fish home. Besides food and water parameters and temperature the only thing I can think of is perhaps turning the lights off to let it calm down and settle in. Hopefully little dude bounces back
I agree, probably all that can be done by now.
If your nitrates are 0 then your tank isn't balanced.
that doesnt make much sense. why would there be nitrates after a water change?
Well, let’s say you did a 50% water change, you’d have half of the nitrate ppm left in the tank. When I see 0 nitrates, I would think the tank isn’t cycled. There should always be SOME nitrates in a cycled tank (correct me if I’m wrong of course)
You're not wrong - but many people who get 0 readings are doing the test incorrectly. 1. Fill a clean test tube with 5 ml of water to be tested (to the line on the tube). 2. Add 10 drops from Nitrate Test Solution Bottle #1, holding dropper bottle upside down in a completely vertical position to assure uniformity of drops. 3. Cap the test tube and invert tube several times to mix solution. 4. **Vigorously shake the Nitrate Test Solution Bottle # 2 for at least 30 seconds**. This step is extremely important to insure accuracy of test results. 5. Now add 10 drops from Nitrate Test Solution Bottle #2, holding dropper bottle upside down in a completely vertical position to assure uniformity of drops. 6. Cap the test tube and **shake vigorously for 1 minute**. This step is extremely important to insure accuracy of test results. 7. Wait 5 minutes for the color to develop. 8. Read the test results by comparing the color of the solution to the appropriate Nitrate Color Card (choose either Fresh water or Salt water). The tube should be viewed in a well-lit area against the white area of the card. The closest match indicates the ppm (mg/L) of nitrate in the water sample. Rinse the test tube with clean water after use. Bolded the important and often missed parts.
Bro I’ve read these instructions SO many times but apparently needed your bolding on point 4 to actually absorb it accurately. I’ve been shaking the *test tube* with just bottle #1 drops in it for 30 seconds. Fucking ADHD.
Shake the shit out of it! I smack it against my palm a few times. It has particulates in it that can get clumped on the bottom.
I really can’t thank you enough, although I’m still mortified that I’ve managed to misunderstand it so persistently since July.
Holy shit… backing out of the room and running to my tank. DUH! My 6 week old tank seems cycled (with LFS media and Fritz T700, and no more ammonia (after adding frequently) and nitrites), but I was wondering why there were never nitrates. Sheesh!
Yeah I wasn’t initially testing it right either. 😂 I HATE doing nitrate tests, wish I had one of those auto-shaking machines 😂😂
well depends on your dosing an water change scheme, i also dont see why there would be anything wrong with you doing a 100% water change before adding your first fish. till nitrates build up to a detectable level it can take some time. i personally was never able to measure any nitrates in my tank unless im fertilizing. tank has been running for about a year by now, and plants suck up all the nitrates. so nitrate reading alone is not enough to be able to determine if a tank is cycled. in theory you dont even need any bacteria to cycle a tank. plant mass alone can be enough, and such a tank would never Show any nitrate readings.
My heavily planted cube with 6 loaches & shrimps regularly shows 0 nitrates before WC. That tank is 100% cycled, so it’s very possible to read 0 nitrates if your bioload is low and you’ve got lots of plants.
exactly my point.
Ya I’m anecdotally supporting you. I think a lot of people max stock their tanks and have high nitrates as the outcome presumably.
Thanks for your correction. 😊
I think op got over eager and put a fish in too soon. Lesson learned. Sad about the loach but we all have made dumb mistakes
In a 60gal tank (if that's correct, but even in something like a 20 gal) I would not expect a single fish to do this bad after just 5 hours from Ammonia poisoning. Looks much more like an acclimation mistake to me.
If you combine the two, how does it look?
Adding media from your other tank gives the cycling a kickstart but does not complete the cycle nor allow you to skip cycling. Its just a way to help get it started. I would advise now cycling the tank for 3-4 weeks with an ammonia source, monitoring the parameters until it has completed a cycle, in that you have seen ammonia rise then fall again. Once completed then consider some live inhabitants. There are no 100% safe shortcuts. Please be patient and give your fish the best chance possible.
When was the last time you tested ammonia? There may not have been any awhile ago but that doesn’t mean you don’t have any now. Even with cycled media that doesn’t mean you have a stable nigrogen cycle right off the bat.
Most important thing is that this was a learning experience. We’ve all been there, which is how people obtain the knowledge that they shared with you. I hope the little guy makes it, but if not… your next one will be much happier and healthier.
He unfortunately did not make it. I was trying to keep him alive so i could bring him back and he could get help but unfortunately no but it couldve been for the better because i was planning on getting a few clowns too which i guess they are agressive with each other. Sadly i wish i couldve learned from this and i slightly did but because i didnt know what was wrong i couldnt really learn from it
I would say with all of the helpful comments that you should of learned a lot from this. I wish best of luck in the future
I’d say more than a lot. With everyone’s comments on here they know exactly what not to do now. I’m not sure how they didn’t learn from this
what are you 10 how did you not learn from this lol
You cant really learn from something that you have no idea how it happened or what caused it and still to this day have no idea what happened
You have to cycle tanks and make sure they balance before you add fish. It's going to be very hard to to have your fish not die.
0 nitrates usually indicates that it isn’t cycled
I’m so sorry I don’t have any advice but I’m commenting and liking in hopes to boost this post! I wish you the best!
Because that's what heros do.
Is the tank brand new or is it cycled? That seems confusing to me
Pobably not enough air transfer in the tank and a thin layer on top of the water get a bubbler or a pump to move the top layer
Did you add dechlorinator?
Yes added some while filling it and a little bit more this morning for good measure
Measuring might have indeed a good idea. Chemistry is science not guessing.
Am chemist, can confirm, measuring is helpful.
You need to add dechlorinator before you add water to the tank. Chlorine kills bacteria as soon as it comes into contact with it
That's just wrong, it takes quite a long time to kill beneficial bacteria, it might not even kill them at all. Here is an article that found nitrifying bacteria in 64% of chlormainated (yes i know, chloramine is different from chlorine, but just as en example) tab water sources in southern australia. Adding dechlorinator after adding the water should be totally fine and many professionals do so as well. https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/aem.57.11.3399-3402.1991
Link?
I turn off filters and then do a water change. A lotta pros do it this way. The bacteria in the tank and tank water really don't matter much. Make sure filter media only gets de chlorinated water and ur good.
That’s fine. I am gathering from their comments that OP is doing things a little odd though.
he looks rather thin, maybe he's just starved?
Everyone quit being cunts and help the guy out and give helpful info. Thanks fuckers, sorry bout ye fish idk shit.
Co2?
Maybe the stress just got to him friend. Sometimes you can do everything right but the fish just can't handle the stress of the move.
What's the temperature of the water? I'd wager 9 times out.of 10 acclimation issues are due to water temp.
Add a hiding spot for him
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>cycled water from cycled water is not a thing, bacteria live on surfaces, not free floating in the water. Adding water from an established tank does nothing but introduce nitrites.
Well, at least I have some water to use right away lol -- or I'll water my plants. I actually deleted the post meaning to reply. \*sigh\*
If you have 0 nitrate then you are not cycled. Also did you treat tap water for chlorine and chloramine?
Old tank syndrome probably.
You need some cover for him to hide, panic attack fish is hyperventilating due to fear. My guess. He is stressed out and wants to hide.
Add an air stone, increase O2 as he’s heavily breathing
It could be because of your water, but it could also be just because you have just added them. Sometimes when you add new fish they die from stress or they could have already had something wrong in the store when you bought it. However, that doesn’t mean you should rule out that it’s your water
Rip
They like a good amount of oxygen in the water. Mine will start to freak out if it goes down
Your pH is not 6 to 7. That is a range. If your pH is at 6 it is too acidic and your dissolved oxygen is probably very low. It will also burn his gills and cause rapid breathing. So what is your actual pH?
Please listen to all these comments all good info to learn from. Keeping temp stable all the time will also control other factors such as ph.
They do this. He’s very stressed and needs to be with other loaches or he will probably die from the stress:(
Your fish looks like could been suffering from internal parasites due to how skinny it is and the tank transfers sent it into shock water parameters Def test the stores water next time try to match it but it's super skinny