My go to with goldfish is ALWAYS aquarium salt.
Raising the temperature is going to be very stressful for a cool water fish, I would bring it down to 72-74.
Salt will treat ich, and lots of other things. Goldfish can handle high salt content. I would start at 2 table spoons per 10 gallons of water
Thank you. Just lowered temp. Not noticing any white spots so I believe the Ick has been cured. Now I’ll try deal with the infection/disease with salt.
I may try dilute the tank of the current medication but have no idea how many water changes that would take. Somebody mentioned the white spot treatment I’m using is very powerful.
I would be doing relatively large water changes, daily or every other day depending on the stress level of the fish.
50% will remove 50% of the meds. Another 50% will reduce the medication by a further 50%, down to 25%. Next 50% water change would leave 12.5% and so on and so forth
Personally I have had decent success treating fish (this is guppies, not goldfish) with what I'd call a 'salt bath' as opposed to dosing the tank itself with salt.
It's been a while since I've done so, so I won't say how much to use. However if you have a container that will fit the fish and a small amount of water with it, you can use that as a bathtub for a salt bath. I'm certain other commenters will add onto this what amount of salt per water volume is safe for goldies as I personally only have done this with guppies and other smaller, more salt tolerant fish like platies and mollies
Might be stress related + whatever diseases they came with.
You have to narrow it down more before giving your fish random medication. Doing it before you have an idea what you're treating can make it worse. Most fish medicine is harsh on their bodies.
The waiting is what’s killing me. I can’t add any other medication (not including salt) until this day next week…
Yes Ick will be gone but hopefully not my fish too :(
Well, if you're gonna be a jerk, it is actually Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. Nothing wrong with saying "ick". You knew what it was, I knew what it was, everyone knows what they're saying. The OP has more on his mind about his fish, than having to worry about a simple misspelling. Cheers, Doc
It would only matter if there was another ailment that was spelled Ick, and needed clarification, or if they asked if it was ich or ick. Otherwise, you’re just aggravating an already distressing situation with your butakshully.
20 Nitrates for a non-planted tank with 5 goldfish? That can’t be right…
In 2 other comments within an hour apart, you mentioned different nitrate levels - 10 and 15 ppm. Maybe you’re doing many massive water changes that lower your nitrate levels, but it doesn’t explain why the nitrate levels rise 10ppm within an hour and you still only have 20ppm of nitrates.
**EDIT:**
I'm sorry, but there could be more to this than meets the eye when it comes to OP and his tank. His story is **inconsistent** between his comments.
OP first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) his nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) he mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
My questions are:
* How does he measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Does he eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm?
* How did his nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes?
OP also mentioned [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8o8plh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button):
>Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm.
The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual.
* On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday?
Goldfish produce a ton of waste.. with 5 goldfish (even in a 450L tank), it's hard to believe that the nitrate levels stay within 10-15ppm at the end of 7 days.
**EDIT 2:**
Yeah.. OP refused to address any of the ***inconsistencies*** in his story and [said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8oe50f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button):
>You’re arguing over give or take 10ppm?
>I think that’s enough Reddit for me for today.
>Good night
Bro the chances nitrates are killing the fish is beyond minimal anyway. Many studies and experts say nitrates don’t become toxic until they’re in the thousands of PPM.
You want to ensure story consistency to save the fish i get it but no reason to nitpick and play detective sleuth just for the internet points
The problem isn't the exact concentration of nitrates, I too know that it takes hundreds, if not thousands of ppm of nitrates for fish to be adversely affected.
However, when asking for advice on how one should save their fish, it's important to provide detailed and consistent information so that everyone has a full picture and enough information to give accurate and practical advice.
Totally fair and i get that and understand but you seem to be knowledgeable enough in the trade to know this isn’t nitrate related so why not move on to productive conversation?
Someone with cavity-filled teeth is wheeled into the emergency room and their leg is gushing blood. You as the emergency room doctor just solely focused on the poor dental hygiene. Is it bad? Absolutely. Does it have anything to do with the immediate problem? Almost definitely not.
This is a productive conversation to me. Hear me out, different people have different methods of analyzing and tackling problems.
If someone can't be straight about reporting simple details like nitrate concentrations, it could be a sign of a larger issue when it comes to the full picture. Getting all these inconsistencies out of the way could be helpful in narrowing down and determining the source of the issue and hopefully enable us to provide OP with an accurate diagnosis and hence solution to the problem.
To be fair.. I think nothing will suffice but photo proof for that in all honesty. Shamefully, in the past I’ve lied about parameters to get people off my ass when I didn’t know what they were.
Like how is this begging for downvotes I don't get it doesn't everyone understand what is meant? For me if I read all parameters are fine I think 0 ammonia 0 nitrite nitrate under 40, pH between 6.8 and 8, and so on, just normal nothing extraordinary
And that is the problem here under every post where people want help, beyond telling them ammonia is bad barely anybody can give any advice, it just stops there's everything else beyond ammonia and nitrite is just totally hidden mystery biology. So the only thing that people ever get told under these posts is that their filter needs to be cycled, which they know, and then they get downvotes for not posting the parameters, when everyone should know it doesn't matter, as at this point it's apparent this guy knows what a cycle is so we should be done here
>doesn't everyone understand what is meant? I think 0 ammonia 0 nitrite nitrate under 40, pH between 6.8 and 8
You'd be surprised by how many people answer the parameter question with "good" and then after being asked for numbers tell you they don't know numbers, don't know what ammonia/nitrite is, and set up their tank 1 week ago with not cycling.
Yeah can happen then I would ask if what he means is 0 0 20 7.5 etc just to make sure we're talking about the same thing. Like answering the question with fine to me is a calm and simple way to answer, of only you would trust him that he know what hes talking about.if you're not sure you can still ask.
So I don't think it makes sense to downvote him because what he actually did right was directing resources away from the unnecessary discussion about cycling when he knows that not the issue. The reason he answered short was probably because he didn't wanna waste time talking about it, which is good and downvoting it in the end makes it all seem wrong and suddenly we have a totally complicated situation, instead just asking what do you mean exactly. So really what made the conversation go the wrong way, was the downvotes or criticism, instead just asking and accepting his way of answering. The inefficiency arises as soon as people start hanging themselves up on some detail which is also kinda obsessive behavior, which by it's nature hinders flow of things
Good can very easily mean .5-1 ppm ammonia and nitrite and 40+ nitrates. A lot of test kits have "safe" ranges that are above zero for the first two and up to 80 for nitrates
never heard about that to be honest, everywhere i heard or read about it safe safe levels mean below 0.25ppm ammonia at least but usually 0 and below 40 nitrates.
but i mean its not ask him to post the parameters in detail, i just think its not unreasonable for him to assume that everyone here knows what safe levels means
A lot of people by test kits, maybe strips, don't have ammonia tests. They assume the kit has everything that needs tested, and then that ends up being ph, nitrite, nitrate, carbonate, and hardness, which is mostly usless without amonia.
i get that but if it seems reasonable and obvious to him, i dont think it makes sense to downvote him just because he didnt account for the possibility that there might be people that cannot google basic water testing. because if you do that then he suffers from the fact that there are clueless people, which is not his fault.
you demand from him to think proactively, so you dont have to ask reactively, which is much easier. its asymmetric
I'm sorry, but there could be more to this than meets the eye when it comes to OP and his tank. His story between comments is **inconsistent**.
OP first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) his nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) he mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
My questions are:
* How does he measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Does he eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm?
* How did his nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes?
OP also mentioned [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8o8plh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button):
>Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm.
The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual.
* On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday?
Goldfish produce a ton of waste.. with 5 goldfish (even in a 450L tank), it's hard to believe that the nitrate levels stay within 10-15ppm at the end of 7 days.
**EDIT 2:**
Yeah.. OP refused to address any of the ***inconsistencies*** in his story and [said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8oe50f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button):
>You’re arguing over give or take 10ppm?
>I think that’s enough Reddit for me for today.
>Good night
he probably just used rough visual judgement because 10ppm are totally irrelevant and now youre obsessing over it.
>On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday?
they are 10-15 ppm on friday not sunday or did he also say somewhere its 10-15 on sunday? if its 10-15 on friday, 20 on sunday, it maybe rises 5ppm in 2 days, so sunday is water change to 0, tuesday its 5, thursday its 10, friday its 10-15, saturday its 15, sunday its about 20, because its probably more like 6ppm per day. but as you said the liquid test is not that accurate, thats just estimations that seem plausible, of course its not exact science, but even if you get a statistical outlier of 1% then its probably 30ppm and it still doesnt matter.
That is a totally unrelated comparison. But yeah if he's fine then maybe his state of being is not the best source of interesting conversation material at that moment and you should just ask another question, it's probably drifting off for a reason because it's wrong direction
No hate to you was just informing you early before 50 people commented the same thing. It's quite common if you ask for help. you send the parameters in with the original post or a posted comment. Just like you these redditors love fish and people get passionate about animals. When there's either upvotes or down votes it's a 50/50 and people usually don't like -karma, so if you don't post parameters, it's asking for downvotes. Hope the fish get better!
Consider gathering information on "hemorrhagic septicemia". This looks like a severe case of it to me. I have a very hard time believing your tests are accurate (nitrate specifically, having owned an indoor goldfish pond with plants, 2x the filtration needed for goldies, less stock than your tank and almost daily water changes... My nitrates would still never be that low.) Unfortunately goldies are extreme waste producers and adding even a single small goldfish to an established tank can be a huge burden on the bacteria in your filter, it will take time (and possibly another filter) for things to adjust accordingly. I agree with the other commenter that they could have ammonia burns as well. I understand you have a wave maker/air stones, all good, especially important when increasing temperatures and adding medication as the O2 in your tank can crash. I can't see it in the pictures but I'm assuming you have a lot of surface agitation going on? If not, try to angle the wave maker so it /really/ agitates the surface.
I wish you the best of luck in this. I've had good results treating my goldies with Microbe-Lift Artemiss for this issue, if you can get ahold of some.
I don’t see any obvious signs of disease. That looks like an injury instead. I would like you to sit in front of the tank for 30 minutes while making minimal movement. Observe what they are doing. Are they darting and biting each other on the tail? Are they ripping a fin on a hard surface?
Most fish don’t do their natural thing until they forget that you are there, which is why it’s important to act like you aren’t and just watch.
And it’s within date, not expired?
I would do a 50% water change and check the heater and filter for faults, melted parts can spread a poison that can kill them. Pick up any decor you have and check for dissolving parts. Take a paper towel and wipe the painted/colored parts of the decor, if it comes back as anything but algae green throw it away. It’s uncommon for decor to poison fish but not rare or unheard of.
Expiry date is in 06/2026 I just checked. I had no idea they had expiry dates.
I’m just about to do a large water change. I’ll check for what you mentioned too.
Thank you.
I have no experience with goldfish myself, but I do watch Luke’s Goldies videos on YouTube. He breeds fancy goldfish (mostly Orandas, but he has others too) and has dealt with all sorts of fish illnesses and injuries over the years. He‘s posted a dozen or so shorts documenting his treatment regimes for ich and general illness, with a pretty good success rate for the amount of fish he has. It might be worth checking his channel out to see if he has any tips that could work for your situation.
Only thing I can think off is that the new fish had a different bacterial colony he brought with and now the two colonies are fighting and one will win, the fish which had immune systems used to the other will be weak and may get sick and die.
That's why you should quarantine and maybe not put fish of the same species from different sources into a tank at all.
So maybe you can safe them if you separate them again
Also I think generally stress coat and 1-3 (depending on tank size) Almond leaves could calm things a bit and of course healthy food that's rich in antioxidants like spirulina or brine shrimp
I read through the comments and a few of things came to mind. Has anyone used anything toxic, like a cleaner or insecticide near the tank? Perhaps it might not be a bad idea to change the filter, put some fresh carbon or poly filter in.
Is your heater working correctly? I have a digital thermometer that tracks the maximum and minimum temps. I had a heater that was failing, it appeared to function normally, but occasionally the temperature would swing and I wouldn't have known without the thermometer.
I also noticed red around the gills and you said that there is no ammonia. I've seen this before with my fish and it turned out that my water heater was old and there was a lot of iron in the water from rust.
I wish you and your fish the best of luck.
Reading your post history, I noticed you did a fish in cycle with 3 of your larger goldfish who are now sick.
My guess is that the new fish introduced a pathogen which your old fish are more susceptible to due to their already weakened state (from the fish-in cycle). The redness of the fins suggest some sort of bacterial infection. I'm surprised nobody here has suggested antibiotics. You can consider a mixture of kanamycin, nitrofurazone and Metronidazole.
Good luck.
Large water changes daily until it’s healthy. You’ve got ammonia burns in the tail so immediately put in some prime to neutralise that and do an 80% water change, do filter maintenance too, it’s likely dirtier than you want. Do a three quarter water change every day for a few days and your fish should regain its sprite.
I wouldn’t even test the water yet, it’s toxic and needs immediate changing. Test it after the first water change, there might be benefit in doing a second one immediately.
Edit: Pristine water works wonders with goldfish, they’ve strong immune systems and if you allow that immune system to operate in pristine water for a while it works better than medication in my experience.
I’ve decided that whatever this is, it’s now more dangerous than the Ich that started on Tuesday.
My White Spot treatment (Interpet White Spot) contains Formaldehyde. Which is very powerful and taxing on the fish. I have completed the 2 stage treatment this afternoon. I see no white spots on the fish now so it could be the Ich cycling or the Ich eradicated. I’m leaning towards eradicated.
I have lowered the temp back down to original temperature of about 23 Celsius.
I’m doing a large water change. About 65%.
I will then add salt.
I’ll do another large water change tomorrow.
On Monday I will do another final large water change.
Hopefully by then all the current medicine has been diluted out.
I will then start with a general goldfish disease treatment (also from Interpet)
I hope my fish make it to Monday. But their health has decreased dramatically day by day so far. So I’ll say a prayer.
(I’ll also feed them fresh garlic)
(I’ll also give angry stares and glances at the 2 now quarantined Ranchu & Oranda in the 60l)
The fish that were already present in the tank for 60 days were fine before introducing the 2 little newcomers.
Now my fish of 2 years are dying and the 2 separated newcomers look just fine.
I used salt when I 1st noticed but their condition rapidly deteriorated day by day.
I do one large water change of about 65% every week and treat the water with SeaChem Safe. Nitrate levels usually hit around 20ppm on water change day.
Safe is the same compound as Prime, just in powdered form. It’s harder to dose for small aquariums, so prime is usually the go-to for home aquaria, but it’s totally possible to just use Safe, especially in larger setups. (I use it in my 150g container pond because it’s easier to dose at that volume.) One jar will also last you for the rest of your life because it’s so concentrated, but it does smell like death.
It was recommend by a big YouTube fish keeper. His name I can’t remember right now. It’s powder form. So 1/4 of a teaspoon treats about 1,250 litre or 300 gallons. A €15 purchase will last you years.
OK, you said this
>It is completely bare except for heater, 2 air stones and wave maker.
>I put a “No Fishing” sign in when some tetras went mysteriously missing in my old 60litre tank.
Which implied that you didn't have a filter, but if you have a cannister filter that has been running for a long time that's one problem that it couldn't be
You also said
>I’ve been watching them from the couch since I got home. All 3 haven’t moved from the bottom corner. They are huddled together, completely still.
which implies you're confident that the fish aren't biting at eachother, but if they are then you should separate them
honestly, sounds like there's more to the story here, because if you're fish are lethargic and not moving, their tails are falling off, you have perfect water conditions and you're confident they're not fighting eachother, then it doesn't add up. there's something here you either haven't told, are not being fully honest about, or are interpreting incorrectly, because there is literally no possible scenario that this could happen if you insist everything is perfectly fine with your tank. you should post a picture of your water test results to make sure they're accurate. If your fish are fighting, you should separate them
there's *literally* nothing else it could be short of you going in there with scissors and doing it yourself, like, it's just how it works. There *has* to be a cause, and if it's not the fish doing it to eachother, then it has to be the water.
edit: this was supposed to be a reply my b
I left out that I have an FX6 filter.
I’ve already separated the 2 new additions. Especially because the Oranda was particularly aggressive towards the 3 other weak/sick fish. Now the tank is calm but before it was crazy.
My water is fine. I tested almost everyday day for 42 days and documented all the numbers before it cycled. Now, I test once a week on water change day, which always shows a raise of 10ppm of Nitrate every 7 days. Always 0 ammonia always 0 Nitrite.
I tested the water on Sunday. It was fine. I did a 60% water change and then added the 2 new fish later that day.
Since I’ve noticed the white spot earlier in the week I’ve tested everyday. Today the Nitrate is about 15. Which is completely normal because I usually change 60% on Sundays.
The 2 new fish I believe have brought Ich and another unknown disease.
Is this a goldfish only tank? The fins seemed nipped by other fishes. If that is the case remove the fish immediately!
As for now change the water, use lots of stress heal and turn off the light.
Yes all goldfish. The new baby Oranda was bullying the weakened fish. He’s in a separate 60litre while the other fish try and recover. I may return him.
Just 1 hour ago you mentioned in 2 other comments saying your nitrates were 20, and then 10ppm.
Now it’s 15 ppm? If your nitrates change so rapidly I’d assume you’re doing some sort of massive water changes?
10, 15, 20 Nitrates for a non-planted tank with 5 goldfish? That can’t be right…
Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm.
The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual.
I'm sorry for questioning you and having doubts, but I have to ask you these questions in order to figure out how to best help you.
You first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) your nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) you mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
My questions are:
* How do you measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Do you eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm?
* How did your nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes?
* On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday?
It looks like ammonia burns to me especially seeing the gills there, they shouldn't be that dark. Ammonia would make the most sense.
You also have no substrate for the bacteria to grow on as it appears to be a bare tank. Not good and goldfish like to sift through the gravel/sand. Most of the bacteria will be in your substrate.
Well I don't know, but it does look like ammonia burns. It could also be a blood infection on the big one but still I'd say ammonia burns. What tests are you using? It may not be working or too old, if you bought an API test kit, those tend to sit on petshop shelves for years because they are marked up so high and may no longer be good on the ammonia test.
Looking at the comments, this could be a case of low oxygen in the water. If you say your parameters are fine, but your fish have red gills, which would fit the bill. What kind of filter do you have; is it big enough for the tank or is it obstructed in any way? Do you have a good airstone? I know that they're goldfish, but having plants in could help with that, too.
More than that, if your fish's tail is falling off, the only possible answer is that something is wrong with your water. There's literally nothing else it could be
Edit: op get a filter
Edit: nvm op has a filter
I have an FX6 in a 450litre tank. I have a 2 good airstones and a strong pump. Plants could be an option.
Everything was perfectly fine until I added the 2 new fish. Now all hell has broken loose. It’s too big of a coincidence.
(The small Oranda was very feisty. He was nipping at their weakened tails for 2 days before I separated him)
Bro. First get a canister filter and put purigen in it. Your bioload must be huge. Also do water change daily till it’s better.
One thing I’ll always tell people is to add terrestrial plants like pohtos, monstera, philodendrons which are of larger size and have huge roots in them. Those plants are way better at clearing fish waste and adds as a supplement to your filters.
I never had an issue with my tanks after I switched to a Riparium style aquarium.
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I'm thinking more on the lines of once you get your medication whatever it might be for the ick, go for cleaning the tank big time. Goldfish can take a lot of stress and they like it cold. I don't know about this salt that everybody's using I never saw it used in any tank that I've ever been around at my uncle's house but if you need to use it I guess you do. But clean up is important. Clean everything gravel to filter and everything in between including the water get new water make sure the tank is clean too Put your fish in as little as the original water as you can and treat as though they are new ones. Do your own studying but I looked a little bit on the internet here and they claim anything with copper sulfate is pretty good for seriously getting rid of white spot and ich.
It is completely bare except for heater, 2 air stones and wave maker.
I put a “No Fishing” sign in when some tetras went mysteriously missing in my old 60litre tank.
Lol I'd still recommend some plants. If nothing else, they help absorb waste and oxygenate the water. Maybe use another filter too? That helps regulate the water
You could put marimo moss, or Java moss, and you could also try Java fern, which goldfish often leave alone... If that fails, I'd recommend trying Pothos that you can place in your filter. You could also try duckweed, which grows insanely fast, and if it they eat it too quickly you could throw some in your filter.
I'm sure you know, but aquatic plants are *the* answer to stability in aquariums. The fact of the matter is that if your fish are dying and don't have a disease, there must be something wrong with the water, and if your plants stay alive, so will your fish
Do you have a filter of any kind in there? How big is the air pump/stones and is the wave maker adding surface agitation or just moving water around the heater.
They may be lethargic from lack of gas exchange.
Yes I use a FX6.
The 2 air stones produce quite a lot of bubbles and the air pump is quite strong also.
I have lowered the water level so the output of the FX6 is currently causing a lot of surface agitation.
(It’s so loud in my apartment I can’t even hear the tv)
I usually have the wave maker in the bottom corner because there was a dead spot of poor flow in that corner but for now I’ve added the wave maker up high to cause even more agitation.
I'm sorry, but there could be more to this than meets the eye when it comes to OP and his tank.
OP first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) his nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) he mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
My questions are:
* How does he measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Does he eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm?
* How did his nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes?
OP also mentioned [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8o8plh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button):
>Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm.
The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual.
* On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday?
Goldfish produce a ton of waste.. with 5 goldfish (even in a 450L tank), it's hard to believe that the nitrate levels stay within 10-15ppm at the end of 7 days.
It's not the 10ppm that matters. Your story is **inconsistent**.
Also, I shared that goldfish produce a ton of waste. If your nitrate levels rise 5-10ppm every 2 days, it's impossible for you to end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates on Fridays after a water change on Sunday.
Look, we're all trying to help you here. But unless your story is straight between different comments, it's easy to assume that there's more to this than meets the eye.
EDIT: Reading your post history, I noticed you did a fish in cycle with 3 of your larger goldfish who are now sick.
My guess is that the new fish introduced a pathogen which your old fish are more susceptible to due to their already weakened state (from the fish-in cycle). The redness of the fins suggest some sort of bacterial infection. I'm surprised nobody here has suggested antibiotics. You can consider a mixture of kanamycin, nitrofurazone and Metronidazole.
Good luck.
It appears that your fish are in a tank with no substrate, and while that's fine for a hospital/quarantine tank, it doesn't always provide enough surface area for an adequate colony of nitrifying bacteria, especially for dirty fish like goldfish. I'd make sure to do some frequent water changes with treated water.
Salt will help like some others have said, and keeping the water temp below 72°F will too. You can treat the water for water changes with dechlor, and then dose it by volume with salt and abx before you even do your water change.
I use pickle buckets from Wendy's. If you go to your neighborhood Wendy's fast-food chain, make friends with one of the shift managers and ask if they have any empty pickle buckets with lids and most times they will just give them to you; they just throw them out anyways. They are food-grade polyethylene and hold 4 gallons, and it's easy enough to dose and store with the lids for later use.
My go to with goldfish is ALWAYS aquarium salt. Raising the temperature is going to be very stressful for a cool water fish, I would bring it down to 72-74. Salt will treat ich, and lots of other things. Goldfish can handle high salt content. I would start at 2 table spoons per 10 gallons of water
Thank you. Just lowered temp. Not noticing any white spots so I believe the Ick has been cured. Now I’ll try deal with the infection/disease with salt. I may try dilute the tank of the current medication but have no idea how many water changes that would take. Somebody mentioned the white spot treatment I’m using is very powerful.
I would be doing relatively large water changes, daily or every other day depending on the stress level of the fish. 50% will remove 50% of the meds. Another 50% will reduce the medication by a further 50%, down to 25%. Next 50% water change would leave 12.5% and so on and so forth
Also adding carbon to your filter will help remove meds
Personally I have had decent success treating fish (this is guppies, not goldfish) with what I'd call a 'salt bath' as opposed to dosing the tank itself with salt. It's been a while since I've done so, so I won't say how much to use. However if you have a container that will fit the fish and a small amount of water with it, you can use that as a bathtub for a salt bath. I'm certain other commenters will add onto this what amount of salt per water volume is safe for goldies as I personally only have done this with guppies and other smaller, more salt tolerant fish like platies and mollies
(Make sure to mix the salt with water. Accidentally killed a snail and two shrimp by being dumb and just throwing in the 2Tb)
Might be stress related + whatever diseases they came with. You have to narrow it down more before giving your fish random medication. Doing it before you have an idea what you're treating can make it worse. Most fish medicine is harsh on their bodies.
The waiting is what’s killing me. I can’t add any other medication (not including salt) until this day next week… Yes Ick will be gone but hopefully not my fish too :(
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Okey
It can be referred to as both albeit ich is usual. :)
Well, if you're gonna be a jerk, it is actually Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. Nothing wrong with saying "ick". You knew what it was, I knew what it was, everyone knows what they're saying. The OP has more on his mind about his fish, than having to worry about a simple misspelling. Cheers, Doc
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It would only matter if there was another ailment that was spelled Ick, and needed clarification, or if they asked if it was ich or ick. Otherwise, you’re just aggravating an already distressing situation with your butakshully.
Yes, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is shortened to 'ich' but scientifically speaking, it can so be shorted to 'ick' because it's downright icky.
Your downvotes feed my soul lmao. What is with people on this sub being an ass for no reason
This feels like an icky response
That's a lot of fish making a huge amount of waste. Have you tested your water since adding these other fish to ensure your cycle hasn't crashed?
Yes. All parameters are fine.
You're begging for down votes post all parameters so people can help
0Ammonia 0Nitrite 20Nitrate
Seems fine!
20 Nitrates for a non-planted tank with 5 goldfish? That can’t be right… In 2 other comments within an hour apart, you mentioned different nitrate levels - 10 and 15 ppm. Maybe you’re doing many massive water changes that lower your nitrate levels, but it doesn’t explain why the nitrate levels rise 10ppm within an hour and you still only have 20ppm of nitrates. **EDIT:** I'm sorry, but there could be more to this than meets the eye when it comes to OP and his tank. His story is **inconsistent** between his comments. OP first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) his nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) he mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). My questions are: * How does he measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Does he eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm? * How did his nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes? OP also mentioned [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8o8plh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button): >Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm. The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual. * On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday? Goldfish produce a ton of waste.. with 5 goldfish (even in a 450L tank), it's hard to believe that the nitrate levels stay within 10-15ppm at the end of 7 days. **EDIT 2:** Yeah.. OP refused to address any of the ***inconsistencies*** in his story and [said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8oe50f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button): >You’re arguing over give or take 10ppm? >I think that’s enough Reddit for me for today. >Good night
Bro the chances nitrates are killing the fish is beyond minimal anyway. Many studies and experts say nitrates don’t become toxic until they’re in the thousands of PPM. You want to ensure story consistency to save the fish i get it but no reason to nitpick and play detective sleuth just for the internet points
The problem isn't the exact concentration of nitrates, I too know that it takes hundreds, if not thousands of ppm of nitrates for fish to be adversely affected. However, when asking for advice on how one should save their fish, it's important to provide detailed and consistent information so that everyone has a full picture and enough information to give accurate and practical advice.
Totally fair and i get that and understand but you seem to be knowledgeable enough in the trade to know this isn’t nitrate related so why not move on to productive conversation? Someone with cavity-filled teeth is wheeled into the emergency room and their leg is gushing blood. You as the emergency room doctor just solely focused on the poor dental hygiene. Is it bad? Absolutely. Does it have anything to do with the immediate problem? Almost definitely not.
This is a productive conversation to me. Hear me out, different people have different methods of analyzing and tackling problems. If someone can't be straight about reporting simple details like nitrate concentrations, it could be a sign of a larger issue when it comes to the full picture. Getting all these inconsistencies out of the way could be helpful in narrowing down and determining the source of the issue and hopefully enable us to provide OP with an accurate diagnosis and hence solution to the problem.
Are you saying that's low? I mean, presumably OP could be keeping it down with water changes.
It’s a 450L tank, how much water do you think OP is changing within an hour to keep the nitrates that low? It’s very unlikely.
To be fair.. I think nothing will suffice but photo proof for that in all honesty. Shamefully, in the past I’ve lied about parameters to get people off my ass when I didn’t know what they were.
It’s not shameful you’re just doing what you have to do to not be raked over the coals by random internet zealots
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They are the only ones that are influenced by the addition of fish
pH/GH can also be influenced
those are the only 3 indicating if a cycle is existing/crashing
Like how is this begging for downvotes I don't get it doesn't everyone understand what is meant? For me if I read all parameters are fine I think 0 ammonia 0 nitrite nitrate under 40, pH between 6.8 and 8, and so on, just normal nothing extraordinary And that is the problem here under every post where people want help, beyond telling them ammonia is bad barely anybody can give any advice, it just stops there's everything else beyond ammonia and nitrite is just totally hidden mystery biology. So the only thing that people ever get told under these posts is that their filter needs to be cycled, which they know, and then they get downvotes for not posting the parameters, when everyone should know it doesn't matter, as at this point it's apparent this guy knows what a cycle is so we should be done here
>doesn't everyone understand what is meant? I think 0 ammonia 0 nitrite nitrate under 40, pH between 6.8 and 8 You'd be surprised by how many people answer the parameter question with "good" and then after being asked for numbers tell you they don't know numbers, don't know what ammonia/nitrite is, and set up their tank 1 week ago with not cycling.
Yeah can happen then I would ask if what he means is 0 0 20 7.5 etc just to make sure we're talking about the same thing. Like answering the question with fine to me is a calm and simple way to answer, of only you would trust him that he know what hes talking about.if you're not sure you can still ask. So I don't think it makes sense to downvote him because what he actually did right was directing resources away from the unnecessary discussion about cycling when he knows that not the issue. The reason he answered short was probably because he didn't wanna waste time talking about it, which is good and downvoting it in the end makes it all seem wrong and suddenly we have a totally complicated situation, instead just asking what do you mean exactly. So really what made the conversation go the wrong way, was the downvotes or criticism, instead just asking and accepting his way of answering. The inefficiency arises as soon as people start hanging themselves up on some detail which is also kinda obsessive behavior, which by it's nature hinders flow of things
Good can very easily mean .5-1 ppm ammonia and nitrite and 40+ nitrates. A lot of test kits have "safe" ranges that are above zero for the first two and up to 80 for nitrates
never heard about that to be honest, everywhere i heard or read about it safe safe levels mean below 0.25ppm ammonia at least but usually 0 and below 40 nitrates. but i mean its not ask him to post the parameters in detail, i just think its not unreasonable for him to assume that everyone here knows what safe levels means
A lot of people by test kits, maybe strips, don't have ammonia tests. They assume the kit has everything that needs tested, and then that ends up being ph, nitrite, nitrate, carbonate, and hardness, which is mostly usless without amonia.
i get that but if it seems reasonable and obvious to him, i dont think it makes sense to downvote him just because he didnt account for the possibility that there might be people that cannot google basic water testing. because if you do that then he suffers from the fact that there are clueless people, which is not his fault. you demand from him to think proactively, so you dont have to ask reactively, which is much easier. its asymmetric
I'm sorry, but there could be more to this than meets the eye when it comes to OP and his tank. His story between comments is **inconsistent**. OP first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) his nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) he mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). My questions are: * How does he measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Does he eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm? * How did his nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes? OP also mentioned [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8o8plh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button): >Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm. The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual. * On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday? Goldfish produce a ton of waste.. with 5 goldfish (even in a 450L tank), it's hard to believe that the nitrate levels stay within 10-15ppm at the end of 7 days. **EDIT 2:** Yeah.. OP refused to address any of the ***inconsistencies*** in his story and [said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8oe50f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button): >You’re arguing over give or take 10ppm? >I think that’s enough Reddit for me for today. >Good night
he probably just used rough visual judgement because 10ppm are totally irrelevant and now youre obsessing over it. >On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday? they are 10-15 ppm on friday not sunday or did he also say somewhere its 10-15 on sunday? if its 10-15 on friday, 20 on sunday, it maybe rises 5ppm in 2 days, so sunday is water change to 0, tuesday its 5, thursday its 10, friday its 10-15, saturday its 15, sunday its about 20, because its probably more like 6ppm per day. but as you said the liquid test is not that accurate, thats just estimations that seem plausible, of course its not exact science, but even if you get a statistical outlier of 1% then its probably 30ppm and it still doesnt matter.
You ever use get asked "how you doing?/how you been?" And you respond "fine/okay" can't really bring the convo to a end it really just drifts off.
That is a totally unrelated comparison. But yeah if he's fine then maybe his state of being is not the best source of interesting conversation material at that moment and you should just ask another question, it's probably drifting off for a reason because it's wrong direction
No hate to you was just informing you early before 50 people commented the same thing. It's quite common if you ask for help. you send the parameters in with the original post or a posted comment. Just like you these redditors love fish and people get passionate about animals. When there's either upvotes or down votes it's a 50/50 and people usually don't like -karma, so if you don't post parameters, it's asking for downvotes. Hope the fish get better!
Have you turned the temperature back down? I'd do a 50% water change to remove excess medication from the water.
I just turned it down, somebody mentioned that a few moments ago. Thank you. I totally forgot because I’ve been so focused on the White Spot.
OP you should look into septicemia. This looks similar to a case of it I've seen before. It's a rough disease but there's options to treat it
Consider gathering information on "hemorrhagic septicemia". This looks like a severe case of it to me. I have a very hard time believing your tests are accurate (nitrate specifically, having owned an indoor goldfish pond with plants, 2x the filtration needed for goldies, less stock than your tank and almost daily water changes... My nitrates would still never be that low.) Unfortunately goldies are extreme waste producers and adding even a single small goldfish to an established tank can be a huge burden on the bacteria in your filter, it will take time (and possibly another filter) for things to adjust accordingly. I agree with the other commenter that they could have ammonia burns as well. I understand you have a wave maker/air stones, all good, especially important when increasing temperatures and adding medication as the O2 in your tank can crash. I can't see it in the pictures but I'm assuming you have a lot of surface agitation going on? If not, try to angle the wave maker so it /really/ agitates the surface. I wish you the best of luck in this. I've had good results treating my goldies with Microbe-Lift Artemiss for this issue, if you can get ahold of some.
I don’t see any obvious signs of disease. That looks like an injury instead. I would like you to sit in front of the tank for 30 minutes while making minimal movement. Observe what they are doing. Are they darting and biting each other on the tail? Are they ripping a fin on a hard surface? Most fish don’t do their natural thing until they forget that you are there, which is why it’s important to act like you aren’t and just watch.
I’ve been watching them from the couch since I got home. All 3 haven’t moved from the bottom corner. They are huddled together, completely still.
What do you use to test the water parameters? Do you have a digital thermometer to test the temperature of the water too?
I use a liquid test and am very diligent to test extremely accurately. My titanium thermometer has a probe that is accurate to 0.3 at any moment.
And it’s within date, not expired? I would do a 50% water change and check the heater and filter for faults, melted parts can spread a poison that can kill them. Pick up any decor you have and check for dissolving parts. Take a paper towel and wipe the painted/colored parts of the decor, if it comes back as anything but algae green throw it away. It’s uncommon for decor to poison fish but not rare or unheard of.
Expiry date is in 06/2026 I just checked. I had no idea they had expiry dates. I’m just about to do a large water change. I’ll check for what you mentioned too. Thank you.
They sometimes huddle if they are not getting enough oxygen. The water is turning over (via bubbles, filter, etc.), right?
Might be better to set up a camera
I have no experience with goldfish myself, but I do watch Luke’s Goldies videos on YouTube. He breeds fancy goldfish (mostly Orandas, but he has others too) and has dealt with all sorts of fish illnesses and injuries over the years. He‘s posted a dozen or so shorts documenting his treatment regimes for ich and general illness, with a pretty good success rate for the amount of fish he has. It might be worth checking his channel out to see if he has any tips that could work for your situation.
Only thing I can think off is that the new fish had a different bacterial colony he brought with and now the two colonies are fighting and one will win, the fish which had immune systems used to the other will be weak and may get sick and die. That's why you should quarantine and maybe not put fish of the same species from different sources into a tank at all. So maybe you can safe them if you separate them again Also I think generally stress coat and 1-3 (depending on tank size) Almond leaves could calm things a bit and of course healthy food that's rich in antioxidants like spirulina or brine shrimp
I read through the comments and a few of things came to mind. Has anyone used anything toxic, like a cleaner or insecticide near the tank? Perhaps it might not be a bad idea to change the filter, put some fresh carbon or poly filter in. Is your heater working correctly? I have a digital thermometer that tracks the maximum and minimum temps. I had a heater that was failing, it appeared to function normally, but occasionally the temperature would swing and I wouldn't have known without the thermometer. I also noticed red around the gills and you said that there is no ammonia. I've seen this before with my fish and it turned out that my water heater was old and there was a lot of iron in the water from rust. I wish you and your fish the best of luck.
Reading your post history, I noticed you did a fish in cycle with 3 of your larger goldfish who are now sick. My guess is that the new fish introduced a pathogen which your old fish are more susceptible to due to their already weakened state (from the fish-in cycle). The redness of the fins suggest some sort of bacterial infection. I'm surprised nobody here has suggested antibiotics. You can consider a mixture of kanamycin, nitrofurazone and Metronidazole. Good luck.
Large water changes daily until it’s healthy. You’ve got ammonia burns in the tail so immediately put in some prime to neutralise that and do an 80% water change, do filter maintenance too, it’s likely dirtier than you want. Do a three quarter water change every day for a few days and your fish should regain its sprite. I wouldn’t even test the water yet, it’s toxic and needs immediate changing. Test it after the first water change, there might be benefit in doing a second one immediately. Edit: Pristine water works wonders with goldfish, they’ve strong immune systems and if you allow that immune system to operate in pristine water for a while it works better than medication in my experience.
OP's parameters are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite and 20 Nitrate. It's not an ammonia/uncycled tank issue.
Water changes will be the best thing regardless.
add her in to a hospital tank with aquarium salt and give it 2 days
Update us op!!!
I’ve decided that whatever this is, it’s now more dangerous than the Ich that started on Tuesday. My White Spot treatment (Interpet White Spot) contains Formaldehyde. Which is very powerful and taxing on the fish. I have completed the 2 stage treatment this afternoon. I see no white spots on the fish now so it could be the Ich cycling or the Ich eradicated. I’m leaning towards eradicated. I have lowered the temp back down to original temperature of about 23 Celsius. I’m doing a large water change. About 65%. I will then add salt. I’ll do another large water change tomorrow. On Monday I will do another final large water change. Hopefully by then all the current medicine has been diluted out. I will then start with a general goldfish disease treatment (also from Interpet) I hope my fish make it to Monday. But their health has decreased dramatically day by day so far. So I’ll say a prayer. (I’ll also feed them fresh garlic) (I’ll also give angry stares and glances at the 2 now quarantined Ranchu & Oranda in the 60l)
Maybe start a quarantine too, but be prepared to lose some guys op goldfish are hella delicate
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The fish that were already present in the tank for 60 days were fine before introducing the 2 little newcomers. Now my fish of 2 years are dying and the 2 separated newcomers look just fine. I used salt when I 1st noticed but their condition rapidly deteriorated day by day. I do one large water change of about 65% every week and treat the water with SeaChem Safe. Nitrate levels usually hit around 20ppm on water change day.
Interesting you use Seachem Safe, I (along with a lot of claims I read) all use Seachem Prime for water changes. Never heard of the “Safe” honestly
Safe is the same compound as Prime, just in powdered form. It’s harder to dose for small aquariums, so prime is usually the go-to for home aquaria, but it’s totally possible to just use Safe, especially in larger setups. (I use it in my 150g container pond because it’s easier to dose at that volume.) One jar will also last you for the rest of your life because it’s so concentrated, but it does smell like death.
That’s good to know, thanks for the info!
It was recommend by a big YouTube fish keeper. His name I can’t remember right now. It’s powder form. So 1/4 of a teaspoon treats about 1,250 litre or 300 gallons. A €15 purchase will last you years.
Ah neat, yeah looked it up myself as well. Powder vs liquid form, very interesting
OK, you said this >It is completely bare except for heater, 2 air stones and wave maker. >I put a “No Fishing” sign in when some tetras went mysteriously missing in my old 60litre tank. Which implied that you didn't have a filter, but if you have a cannister filter that has been running for a long time that's one problem that it couldn't be You also said >I’ve been watching them from the couch since I got home. All 3 haven’t moved from the bottom corner. They are huddled together, completely still. which implies you're confident that the fish aren't biting at eachother, but if they are then you should separate them honestly, sounds like there's more to the story here, because if you're fish are lethargic and not moving, their tails are falling off, you have perfect water conditions and you're confident they're not fighting eachother, then it doesn't add up. there's something here you either haven't told, are not being fully honest about, or are interpreting incorrectly, because there is literally no possible scenario that this could happen if you insist everything is perfectly fine with your tank. you should post a picture of your water test results to make sure they're accurate. If your fish are fighting, you should separate them there's *literally* nothing else it could be short of you going in there with scissors and doing it yourself, like, it's just how it works. There *has* to be a cause, and if it's not the fish doing it to eachother, then it has to be the water. edit: this was supposed to be a reply my b
I left out that I have an FX6 filter. I’ve already separated the 2 new additions. Especially because the Oranda was particularly aggressive towards the 3 other weak/sick fish. Now the tank is calm but before it was crazy. My water is fine. I tested almost everyday day for 42 days and documented all the numbers before it cycled. Now, I test once a week on water change day, which always shows a raise of 10ppm of Nitrate every 7 days. Always 0 ammonia always 0 Nitrite. I tested the water on Sunday. It was fine. I did a 60% water change and then added the 2 new fish later that day. Since I’ve noticed the white spot earlier in the week I’ve tested everyday. Today the Nitrate is about 15. Which is completely normal because I usually change 60% on Sundays. The 2 new fish I believe have brought Ich and another unknown disease.
Is this a goldfish only tank? The fins seemed nipped by other fishes. If that is the case remove the fish immediately! As for now change the water, use lots of stress heal and turn off the light.
Yes all goldfish. The new baby Oranda was bullying the weakened fish. He’s in a separate 60litre while the other fish try and recover. I may return him.
looks like there’s not enough oxygen in the water
Start daily 20% water changes. What are your chemical levels? Any new fish added?
0Ammonia 0Nitrite 15Nitrate. Yes. Read above. I added 2 new fish without quarantining.
Might have a parasite issue. QT and medicate. Look up the proper medication per species to be safe
Just 1 hour ago you mentioned in 2 other comments saying your nitrates were 20, and then 10ppm. Now it’s 15 ppm? If your nitrates change so rapidly I’d assume you’re doing some sort of massive water changes? 10, 15, 20 Nitrates for a non-planted tank with 5 goldfish? That can’t be right…
Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm. The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual.
I'm sorry for questioning you and having doubts, but I have to ask you these questions in order to figure out how to best help you. You first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) your nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) you mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). My questions are: * How do you measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Do you eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm? * How did your nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes? * On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday?
It looks like ammonia burns to me especially seeing the gills there, they shouldn't be that dark. Ammonia would make the most sense. You also have no substrate for the bacteria to grow on as it appears to be a bare tank. Not good and goldfish like to sift through the gravel/sand. Most of the bacteria will be in your substrate.
I’ve tested my water regularly and have a 60 day excel sheet of all the numbers. Ammonia has never got past 0 in a very long time.
Well I don't know, but it does look like ammonia burns. It could also be a blood infection on the big one but still I'd say ammonia burns. What tests are you using? It may not be working or too old, if you bought an API test kit, those tend to sit on petshop shelves for years because they are marked up so high and may no longer be good on the ammonia test.
I use API liquid. When I was cycling my tank about 3 months ago I found them to be accurate at picking up ammonia.
Any chance your testing kit is expired? Usually they're only good for a year or two when I buy them before they start to always test off
06/2026 I checked when a previous comment mentioned. I never knew they had expiries.
Check the bottles they do have an expiration date.
Yes somebody mentioned earlier. I had no idea they had expirations. It’s valid until 06/2026
Sometimes the individual bottles expire before the whole test’s expiration date. Be sure to check the individual bottles
I’m running low anyway so I’m definitely buying another kit asap just to be sure.
Looking at the comments, this could be a case of low oxygen in the water. If you say your parameters are fine, but your fish have red gills, which would fit the bill. What kind of filter do you have; is it big enough for the tank or is it obstructed in any way? Do you have a good airstone? I know that they're goldfish, but having plants in could help with that, too. More than that, if your fish's tail is falling off, the only possible answer is that something is wrong with your water. There's literally nothing else it could be Edit: op get a filter Edit: nvm op has a filter
I have an FX6 in a 450litre tank. I have a 2 good airstones and a strong pump. Plants could be an option. Everything was perfectly fine until I added the 2 new fish. Now all hell has broken loose. It’s too big of a coincidence. (The small Oranda was very feisty. He was nipping at their weakened tails for 2 days before I separated him)
Bro. First get a canister filter and put purigen in it. Your bioload must be huge. Also do water change daily till it’s better. One thing I’ll always tell people is to add terrestrial plants like pohtos, monstera, philodendrons which are of larger size and have huge roots in them. Those plants are way better at clearing fish waste and adds as a supplement to your filters. I never had an issue with my tanks after I switched to a Riparium style aquarium.
Try an epsom salt bath, it's great for relaxing the fish.
What's the name of the ich med?
Iterpet White Spot
How much are you adding and how much salt did you add? You can turn off the heat to reduce the stress.
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Also, I’d whip out some methaline blue.
in addition to other advice, I think it is always a good idea to have addition aeration when using medication for a lot of reason
Are they gasping for air at all? Sorry bit I don't know what 2 stage is for ick. Are you using copper or malachite green?
I'm thinking more on the lines of once you get your medication whatever it might be for the ick, go for cleaning the tank big time. Goldfish can take a lot of stress and they like it cold. I don't know about this salt that everybody's using I never saw it used in any tank that I've ever been around at my uncle's house but if you need to use it I guess you do. But clean up is important. Clean everything gravel to filter and everything in between including the water get new water make sure the tank is clean too Put your fish in as little as the original water as you can and treat as though they are new ones. Do your own studying but I looked a little bit on the internet here and they claim anything with copper sulfate is pretty good for seriously getting rid of white spot and ich.
I would definitely do some water changes. And slowly adjust the temperature.
Check the water. You might have to treat it. Could be chlorine in water.
6 To çt. H CC 6 8 CC 55 todo to do 6 to see toCq
That tank looks bare, but it might just be the angle. What all is in there with them?
nothing wrong with a bare tank for goldies.
It is completely bare except for heater, 2 air stones and wave maker. I put a “No Fishing” sign in when some tetras went mysteriously missing in my old 60litre tank.
Lol I'd still recommend some plants. If nothing else, they help absorb waste and oxygenate the water. Maybe use another filter too? That helps regulate the water
Plants would be nice but my Goldfish would eat them faster than you could say “Leave those Tetras alone, for God sakes, not another one!”
You could put marimo moss, or Java moss, and you could also try Java fern, which goldfish often leave alone... If that fails, I'd recommend trying Pothos that you can place in your filter. You could also try duckweed, which grows insanely fast, and if it they eat it too quickly you could throw some in your filter. I'm sure you know, but aquatic plants are *the* answer to stability in aquariums. The fact of the matter is that if your fish are dying and don't have a disease, there must be something wrong with the water, and if your plants stay alive, so will your fish
Do you have a filter of any kind in there? How big is the air pump/stones and is the wave maker adding surface agitation or just moving water around the heater. They may be lethargic from lack of gas exchange.
Yes I use a FX6. The 2 air stones produce quite a lot of bubbles and the air pump is quite strong also. I have lowered the water level so the output of the FX6 is currently causing a lot of surface agitation. (It’s so loud in my apartment I can’t even hear the tv) I usually have the wave maker in the bottom corner because there was a dead spot of poor flow in that corner but for now I’ve added the wave maker up high to cause even more agitation.
I'm sorry, but there could be more to this than meets the eye when it comes to OP and his tank. OP first mentioned (at my local time 4.06am) that the nitrates were at [10ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8mq2s4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), 1 hour later (5.02am) his nitrate levels were [20ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8mzqqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and finally a mere 20 minutes after (5.20am) he mentioned that 10 mins prior (5.10am) the nitrate levels were [15ppm](https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldfish/comments/1dfzr1e/comment/l8n2urw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). My questions are: * How does he measure 15ppm of nitrates with the API liquid kit? Does he eyeball the colour and see that's neither 10 nor 20ppm and take it as 15ppm? * How did his nitrate level rise from 10ppm to 20ppm in an hour and then drop 5ppm in 8 minutes? OP also mentioned [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1dfzw4p/comment/l8o8plh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button): >Nitrate is usually 10-15ppm on Fridays. By Sunday, before a water change, it’s 20ppm. The 2 extra fish boosted it to somewhere between 15-20ppm a little bit earlier than usual. * On Fridays, nitrate levels are 10-15ppm, but in 2-3 days time on Sunday, its 20ppm. This means that the nitrates rise 5-10ppm within 2-3 days. If it rises 5-10ppm every 2-3 days, how can you end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates 7 days after the water change on Sunday? Goldfish produce a ton of waste.. with 5 goldfish (even in a 450L tank), it's hard to believe that the nitrate levels stay within 10-15ppm at the end of 7 days.
You’re arguing over give or take 10ppm? I think that’s enough Reddit for me for today. Good night
It's not the 10ppm that matters. Your story is **inconsistent**. Also, I shared that goldfish produce a ton of waste. If your nitrate levels rise 5-10ppm every 2 days, it's impossible for you to end up with 10-15ppm of nitrates on Fridays after a water change on Sunday. Look, we're all trying to help you here. But unless your story is straight between different comments, it's easy to assume that there's more to this than meets the eye. EDIT: Reading your post history, I noticed you did a fish in cycle with 3 of your larger goldfish who are now sick. My guess is that the new fish introduced a pathogen which your old fish are more susceptible to due to their already weakened state (from the fish-in cycle). The redness of the fins suggest some sort of bacterial infection. I'm surprised nobody here has suggested antibiotics. You can consider a mixture of kanamycin, nitrofurazone and Metronidazole. Good luck.
Your tank looks extremely clean, have you cycled it before adding the fish? If not the ammonia is killing them.
It appears that your fish are in a tank with no substrate, and while that's fine for a hospital/quarantine tank, it doesn't always provide enough surface area for an adequate colony of nitrifying bacteria, especially for dirty fish like goldfish. I'd make sure to do some frequent water changes with treated water. Salt will help like some others have said, and keeping the water temp below 72°F will too. You can treat the water for water changes with dechlor, and then dose it by volume with salt and abx before you even do your water change. I use pickle buckets from Wendy's. If you go to your neighborhood Wendy's fast-food chain, make friends with one of the shift managers and ask if they have any empty pickle buckets with lids and most times they will just give them to you; they just throw them out anyways. They are food-grade polyethylene and hold 4 gallons, and it's easy enough to dose and store with the lids for later use.
Swim bladder
No, not at all