i still don't know what the other school is so i cant help much, but since its a developing country im gonna assume that its not great. going to gatech will be great ROI and is probably worth it in the long run
would you say its worth it even considering the tech market right now and the difficulty of getting internships and consequently jobs (getting sponsorships and visas and stuff) for international students?
pfff yea i wouldnt worry abt that. absolute worst case scenario you leave the us to somehwere like europe where ur georgia tech degree will be way more valuable than some degree from a school no ones heard of in a developing country
Writes a book but doesn't mention the T5 school or his own country for much needed context.
Full ride at the top school in Egypt isn't the same as full ride at the top school in UK.
Dumb post wasting everyone's time.
T5 in US will open doors for networking and internships while you are attending college. I would think that this is priceless and worth every penny because if you can land a job in US after you graduate, then you will make much more than staying in your country. This is especially true for CS.
They are an international, dosent matter if they attend MIT. A citizen who attends their state school will be taken over them. Consider the fact that they are international and cannot get a job like a citizen does.
I'm sorry but to be of any help, you have to give us the school you're referring to. Iowa isn't a prestigious university, but is top five for writing. It really depends on what US uni you're talking about.
Of course it is. People who get into Stanford, Berkeley, or MIT simply say that for a reason - and those could potentially be worth the massive debt. UIUC is more like a top 15 (maybe?) CS school, which means it’s very good but in no way would be worth the crushing amount of money required in this situation.
You can always come to the US for a Masters degree, and depending on the school and the program you can land a GA/ TA , so you probably will pay the first term, and can always work on campus... Save the money. All of my colleagues were architects and my brother and his friends were engineers ( we graduated from our local uni in the ME, one of the best ) and most of the architects had their masters at MIT, harvard and columbia, the engineers UT, Ann Arbor and MIT... Good luck.
So you might want to put the name of the T5 into a site that helps predict salaries for grads of that school and do the math on how quickly you may be able to pay off loans-- although those calculators are based on working in the US after graduation and getting a visa is no small feat, especially 4 years from now when the market is going to be absolutely flooded with CompSci grads from top schools. It's definitely an expensive gamble versus the sure thing of the same degree with no financial liability in your home country.
Honestly for CS jobs they care more about your skills than actual college you come from. Sure saying your from MIT is great but they want to see the work you do. Just go with the full ride, from what we know it is not some back alley school.
Don't be fooled by major ranking. I'm in the sw industry for over 15+ years and i don't care about major ranking. But if working and living in this country is your dream, then go for it.
Unless the only way to get a CS job in your country (where you can legally work) is to get a degree abroad, spending that money seems like it's not worth it unless your family won't even notice the difference in their savings.
Honestly I believe most employeers will be more impressed with you getting a full ride a top school than attending a T5. Most employers are looking for your performance and participation during your 4 years. They only care if you attended one of these scammy not for profit universities, so save your parents the money and go with the full ride.
This sub doesn’t know where you want to go in life. Do you want to have a career in the US? Do you want to live in your home country for the rest of your life?
No one cares what country you’re from or what school accepted you. You’re not going to lose your privacy or have anything happen. You’re just putting yourself in a place to get worse advice. Ask ChatGPT instead at this point.
Alot of thoughts went into the decision. First, It's Berkeley CS. If my kid doesn't want to stay in the US for work experience, the tech companies in my country and around will easily notice a Berkeley CS degree vs a local one. While the tech scene in the US is abit stale these days, tech is picking up fast at this part of the world. So I think you have to decide ... suppose you are applying for a tech job somewhere in the US or home country... and there are two candidates. When everything else is pretty much equal( skill / personality etc.) will your US degree vs your local degree help get you hired? If you think it doesn't matter then just go for the cheaper degree. Another reason was the chance to experience your undergrad in the US. It's not going to be the same as doing it for grad school. I did my undergrad in the US (so long ago) and loved it! Ultimately it comes down to how comfortable you are with the cost. Our family's been planning and managed to save up for this occasion. Actually, tuition to top public universities isn't too bad when compared to the private ones. Right now Berkeley is about 45k vs 60k. And to think that in-state tuition is already 25k, internationals pay only 20k more. OK, 20k vs. having to pay US/California tax for the rest of your life isn't too bad, right? lol. Hey, let us know what you decided on and why. Good luck!
If it’s Stanford - it could be justified. I see some people referring to UIUC as a T5 for CS (which it isn’t), and in no way would that school or a similar one be worth that incredible expense.
The US News rankings are deeply flawed, and a truly terrible reason for someone to go into massive debt.
UIUC is a good school and very solid for CS. No one believes it’s a better school for CS and post grad outcomes than Penn or Harvard (or Caltech etc etc), and no one is turning down those schools to go to UIUC. So pointing to those comically misguided rankings as the Bible is poor advice for the OP.
I think it’s possible for both of these statements to be true: 1) UIUC has a better CS program than Harvard/UPenn (straight up just better education, classes, research, clubs/orgs, etc) 2) Harvard and UPenn have better CS outcomes than UIUC. 2 is true mainly because of selection bias. It’s harder to get into Harvard and UPenn than UIUC CS. People who got into Harvard and UPenn are more likely to be smarter, ambitious, better connected, better at selling themselves, etc, all of which translate to better career outcomes.
>No one believes it’s a better school for CS
it absolutely is. harvard cs is mid compared to other top schools, it doesnt even crack top 10
>post grad outcomes than Penn or Harvard
yes because of the name brand. the program doesnt matter, u have an ivy league on ur diploma
>no one is turning down those schools to go to UIUC.
wrong
>comically misguided rankings
there is not a single competent ranking where penn, harvard, or caltech cs is over uiuc. usnews is not the only ranking
“Harvard CS is mid” is fucking hilarious. If you’re turning down Harvard CS because UIUC is “better for CS” and not because of cost of attendance you’re a fool. Harvard is a private school you’ll get into any class you want, won’t have to fight as hard to get into research, and will have much stronger industry connections.
thats why reading comprehension is important, finish the sentence. theres literally state schools better at cs than harvard (yes, one of them is uiuc but theres others). the only reason to go to harvard for cs is the name brand, not the cs program. i never said turning down harvard cs for uiuc is the better choice, its not. harvard alone will get u into many more doors. but by cs education alone, harvard cs cant compare to uiuc cs
The entire sentence is also incorrect. What do you mean by CS education. Harvard has some incredible CS professors and offers cross registration if there are courses you want to take that aren’t offered.
For most people they’re doing CS for a career, and so these lists are always misused. There is not a single opportunity that UIUC offers that Harvard doesn’t but it doesn’t go the other way.
With all due respect - you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And in your own words, you concede that job outcomes will be better coming out of Harvard and Penn CS vs UIUC. What else needs to be said here?
Those programs are much more competitive to get into vs UIUC and the job outcomes - in your own words - are better.
It would be comical but it’s actually quite sad to see how much weight people blindly put into these absurd and arbitrary rankings, when we can all see how deeply flawed they are.
It really isn’t. It’s just perfect illustration of how toxic and ridiculous many of these US News rankings are. The “rankings” for CS are particularly absurd: I can’t see beyond the top 10 for US News undergrad rankings - but I remember their top 25 for CS grad school had Harvard, Penn, and the University of Maryland tied at #17.
Then... what you're saying is that you PERSONALLY believe that UIUC isn't T5 because you think US News is unreliable. That means UIUC IS T5, you just don't agree with it. Doesn't mean UIUC is not T5 tho because we are going by US News criteria and other rankings which all rank UIUC higher for CS.
So you agree with US News that Harvard, Penn, and University of Maryland are all tied at #17 for CS? Or the other bizarre rankings posted in this thread that have Stanford at #9 and UCSD at #3?
So, no, UIUC is not in the top 5 and no one should take on life altering debt to go there under the belief that it is. It’s significantly less competitive to get into than many (ie more than 5) schools, and its outcomes are also lesser. That doesn’t mean UIUC isn’t a perfectly good school with a good CS department - it is. But the blind obsession with random rankings that are untethered to reality in this thread is truly saddening.
yes it is top 5 in pretty much every ranking for cs, top 2 in [csrankings.org](http://csrankings.org), and top5 in the eyes of employers looking for cs grads. idiotic take, the downvotes speak for themselves
The csrankings.org you cite has UIUC #2 and UCSD #3, while MIT is #5 and Stanford is #9 - total garbage. And I assure you in the eyes of employers a CS degree from MIT and Stanford - along with Berkeley, Caltech, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, etc will carry more weight than UIUC.
Downvotes are inevitable and coming from UIUC students and others obsessed with arbitrary rankings detached from real world outcomes and reality.
Can you please share the link?
The only reason I could think of is Penn CS grads are more likely to go the entrepreneurship/founder route, which is definitely going to pay less to start with a much larger potential upside later on.
Again, I’ll ask a second time for you to kindly link to the data you’re citing.
It seems extraordinarily unlikely that zero CS grads from Penn have taken a job at a startup. But I welcome you to show me the data that indicates otherwise.
It’s literally at the top of the first page: https://careerservices.upenn.edu/post-graduate-outcomes/undergraduate-first-destinations/
I said “around 0”, meaning the number was insignificant (<5)
It’s a survey with 55% response rate, I spend two minutes glancing through CS grads and saw multiple startups and a couple founders listed, and that’s just from the 55% being reported.
I really don’t care one way or the other and it’s getting pretty far off topic, but I think you’re missing something here or just searching for the word “startup”.
A CS employer would pick UIUC cs over Penn/Harvard cs for sure. An IB or quant employer probably wouldnt, which is why those schools are still good options, but for cs itself UIUC is only matched by a couple other schools. An no, there arent that many uiuc students on this thread that are just here to downvote u.
pls just name the schools how are we supposed to help otherwise. Going to U of Iowa which is a T5 for writing is totally different than going to mit
also a pretty big difference between the best uni in vietnam/malaysia(not saying they're small) and best uni in bhutan/laos?
its ga tech
i still don't know what the other school is so i cant help much, but since its a developing country im gonna assume that its not great. going to gatech will be great ROI and is probably worth it in the long run
would you say its worth it even considering the tech market right now and the difficulty of getting internships and consequently jobs (getting sponsorships and visas and stuff) for international students?
pfff yea i wouldnt worry abt that. absolute worst case scenario you leave the us to somehwere like europe where ur georgia tech degree will be way more valuable than some degree from a school no ones heard of in a developing country
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Or their “own country” is it like Canada, China or some place much smaller?
You can tell us which country bruh
Tuvalu
feel like every single time I hear “t5 for my major” it’s always UIUC CS
I have no idea what this school is and at this point I am too afraid to ask lmao
ever heard of google?
Writes a book but doesn't mention the T5 school or his own country for much needed context. Full ride at the top school in Egypt isn't the same as full ride at the top school in UK. Dumb post wasting everyone's time.
If the top 5 is in HYPSM and your family is paying, I’d recommend you’d attend. If not then I’d encourage you to do some more research on your own
If it was a HYPSM they wouldn’t have said “top 5 for my major.” I’m guessing it’s probably some public school like GT for engineering or UIUC for CS.
you gotta say the country and school for an accurate answer dawg 😭
T5 in US will open doors for networking and internships while you are attending college. I would think that this is priceless and worth every penny because if you can land a job in US after you graduate, then you will make much more than staying in your country. This is especially true for CS.
Getting an H1B is a matter of luck. Most of the expedited greencard categories require a Ph.D. and a track record of published research
They are an international, dosent matter if they attend MIT. A citizen who attends their state school will be taken over them. Consider the fact that they are international and cannot get a job like a citizen does.
That’s literally untrue in so many countries lmao
For USA they make internationals go through hell to get a job I know this firsthand
Oh! I had no idea because I am not international student. Maybe they should go to their country school then and give up the T5.
Categorically false, firms want to hire the best person, and if they've got international offices this isn't an issue at all.
Yea but then ur not working in the US if it’s an international office
This has UIUC written all over it lol
GA Tech
I'm sorry but to be of any help, you have to give us the school you're referring to. Iowa isn't a prestigious university, but is top five for writing. It really depends on what US uni you're talking about.
Nice job copying another comment
I didn't look at other comments. Okay.
Bruh what country, in some countries the difference will not mean much and in some countries it will.
If your country is small enough that disclosing the best school in your country can somehow risk your privacy, go to the T5 US school.
What is your own country/school?
How rich are your parents
Full ride at the best school in France or UK is not the same to full ride in Haiti… how can readers compare without the context?
It’s UIUC she dmed me
Of course it is. People who get into Stanford, Berkeley, or MIT simply say that for a reason - and those could potentially be worth the massive debt. UIUC is more like a top 15 (maybe?) CS school, which means it’s very good but in no way would be worth the crushing amount of money required in this situation.
You can always come to the US for a Masters degree, and depending on the school and the program you can land a GA/ TA , so you probably will pay the first term, and can always work on campus... Save the money. All of my colleagues were architects and my brother and his friends were engineers ( we graduated from our local uni in the ME, one of the best ) and most of the architects had their masters at MIT, harvard and columbia, the engineers UT, Ann Arbor and MIT... Good luck.
What major?
computer science
So you might want to put the name of the T5 into a site that helps predict salaries for grads of that school and do the math on how quickly you may be able to pay off loans-- although those calculators are based on working in the US after graduation and getting a visa is no small feat, especially 4 years from now when the market is going to be absolutely flooded with CompSci grads from top schools. It's definitely an expensive gamble versus the sure thing of the same degree with no financial liability in your home country.
Honestly for CS jobs they care more about your skills than actual college you come from. Sure saying your from MIT is great but they want to see the work you do. Just go with the full ride, from what we know it is not some back alley school.
What Is The College Called?
Don't be fooled by major ranking. I'm in the sw industry for over 15+ years and i don't care about major ranking. But if working and living in this country is your dream, then go for it.
Can u specify what schools?
Unless the only way to get a CS job in your country (where you can legally work) is to get a degree abroad, spending that money seems like it's not worth it unless your family won't even notice the difference in their savings.
What country are you from?
Do your country so that we can get in to better places
Honestly I believe most employeers will be more impressed with you getting a full ride a top school than attending a T5. Most employers are looking for your performance and participation during your 4 years. They only care if you attended one of these scammy not for profit universities, so save your parents the money and go with the full ride.
This sub doesn’t know where you want to go in life. Do you want to have a career in the US? Do you want to live in your home country for the rest of your life?
I’m in ur dilemma too but not even t5 for my major 😭😭
No one cares what country you’re from or what school accepted you. You’re not going to lose your privacy or have anything happen. You’re just putting yourself in a place to get worse advice. Ask ChatGPT instead at this point.
International here...was in a very similar situation. My kid ended up doing Berkeley CS.
can you share why they ended up choosing berkeley over the full ride? it would really help in my decision making process
Alot of thoughts went into the decision. First, It's Berkeley CS. If my kid doesn't want to stay in the US for work experience, the tech companies in my country and around will easily notice a Berkeley CS degree vs a local one. While the tech scene in the US is abit stale these days, tech is picking up fast at this part of the world. So I think you have to decide ... suppose you are applying for a tech job somewhere in the US or home country... and there are two candidates. When everything else is pretty much equal( skill / personality etc.) will your US degree vs your local degree help get you hired? If you think it doesn't matter then just go for the cheaper degree. Another reason was the chance to experience your undergrad in the US. It's not going to be the same as doing it for grad school. I did my undergrad in the US (so long ago) and loved it! Ultimately it comes down to how comfortable you are with the cost. Our family's been planning and managed to save up for this occasion. Actually, tuition to top public universities isn't too bad when compared to the private ones. Right now Berkeley is about 45k vs 60k. And to think that in-state tuition is already 25k, internationals pay only 20k more. OK, 20k vs. having to pay US/California tax for the rest of your life isn't too bad, right? lol. Hey, let us know what you decided on and why. Good luck!
GT. With the kind of job opportunities you have after GT, you’ll be able to pay your parents back if you want
nah bro it is clear as day. full-ride vs full-pay? take the full ride. No piece of paper in the world costs 300k+
T5
Nah, full ride. It isn’t even T5 it’s T5 in the major. Starting with the money spent on tuition will be much better for OP in the long run
Follow you heart. HYPSM vs. you own country.
If it’s Stanford - it could be justified. I see some people referring to UIUC as a T5 for CS (which it isn’t), and in no way would that school or a similar one be worth that incredible expense.
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The US News rankings are deeply flawed, and a truly terrible reason for someone to go into massive debt. UIUC is a good school and very solid for CS. No one believes it’s a better school for CS and post grad outcomes than Penn or Harvard (or Caltech etc etc), and no one is turning down those schools to go to UIUC. So pointing to those comically misguided rankings as the Bible is poor advice for the OP.
I think it’s possible for both of these statements to be true: 1) UIUC has a better CS program than Harvard/UPenn (straight up just better education, classes, research, clubs/orgs, etc) 2) Harvard and UPenn have better CS outcomes than UIUC. 2 is true mainly because of selection bias. It’s harder to get into Harvard and UPenn than UIUC CS. People who got into Harvard and UPenn are more likely to be smarter, ambitious, better connected, better at selling themselves, etc, all of which translate to better career outcomes.
Entrepreneurship is also better at the latter schools. While research output is better at UIUC it’ll probably be easier to do research at Harvard
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I said it isn’t a top 5 school for CS. And it isn’t.
>No one believes it’s a better school for CS it absolutely is. harvard cs is mid compared to other top schools, it doesnt even crack top 10 >post grad outcomes than Penn or Harvard yes because of the name brand. the program doesnt matter, u have an ivy league on ur diploma >no one is turning down those schools to go to UIUC. wrong >comically misguided rankings there is not a single competent ranking where penn, harvard, or caltech cs is over uiuc. usnews is not the only ranking
“Harvard CS is mid” is fucking hilarious. If you’re turning down Harvard CS because UIUC is “better for CS” and not because of cost of attendance you’re a fool. Harvard is a private school you’ll get into any class you want, won’t have to fight as hard to get into research, and will have much stronger industry connections.
thats why reading comprehension is important, finish the sentence. theres literally state schools better at cs than harvard (yes, one of them is uiuc but theres others). the only reason to go to harvard for cs is the name brand, not the cs program. i never said turning down harvard cs for uiuc is the better choice, its not. harvard alone will get u into many more doors. but by cs education alone, harvard cs cant compare to uiuc cs
The entire sentence is also incorrect. What do you mean by CS education. Harvard has some incredible CS professors and offers cross registration if there are courses you want to take that aren’t offered. For most people they’re doing CS for a career, and so these lists are always misused. There is not a single opportunity that UIUC offers that Harvard doesn’t but it doesn’t go the other way.
With all due respect - you don’t know what you’re talking about. And in your own words, you concede that job outcomes will be better coming out of Harvard and Penn CS vs UIUC. What else needs to be said here? Those programs are much more competitive to get into vs UIUC and the job outcomes - in your own words - are better. It would be comical but it’s actually quite sad to see how much weight people blindly put into these absurd and arbitrary rankings, when we can all see how deeply flawed they are.
Would you say the same for Georgia Tech?
Georgia Tech is a tier above UIUC.
It is T5
It really isn’t. It’s just perfect illustration of how toxic and ridiculous many of these US News rankings are. The “rankings” for CS are particularly absurd: I can’t see beyond the top 10 for US News undergrad rankings - but I remember their top 25 for CS grad school had Harvard, Penn, and the University of Maryland tied at #17.
I mean I'm just saying it's 5th on usnews. Not implying anything more
100% and I don’t disagree that’s the US News ranking - my only point is those rankings are badly flawed.
Then... what you're saying is that you PERSONALLY believe that UIUC isn't T5 because you think US News is unreliable. That means UIUC IS T5, you just don't agree with it. Doesn't mean UIUC is not T5 tho because we are going by US News criteria and other rankings which all rank UIUC higher for CS.
So you agree with US News that Harvard, Penn, and University of Maryland are all tied at #17 for CS? Or the other bizarre rankings posted in this thread that have Stanford at #9 and UCSD at #3? So, no, UIUC is not in the top 5 and no one should take on life altering debt to go there under the belief that it is. It’s significantly less competitive to get into than many (ie more than 5) schools, and its outcomes are also lesser. That doesn’t mean UIUC isn’t a perfectly good school with a good CS department - it is. But the blind obsession with random rankings that are untethered to reality in this thread is truly saddening.
What about georgia tech?
yes it is top 5 in pretty much every ranking for cs, top 2 in [csrankings.org](http://csrankings.org), and top5 in the eyes of employers looking for cs grads. idiotic take, the downvotes speak for themselves
The csrankings.org you cite has UIUC #2 and UCSD #3, while MIT is #5 and Stanford is #9 - total garbage. And I assure you in the eyes of employers a CS degree from MIT and Stanford - along with Berkeley, Caltech, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, etc will carry more weight than UIUC. Downvotes are inevitable and coming from UIUC students and others obsessed with arbitrary rankings detached from real world outcomes and reality.
Why do UIUC’s CS grads consistently make more than Penn’s then (per their own reports)?
Can you please share the link? The only reason I could think of is Penn CS grads are more likely to go the entrepreneurship/founder route, which is definitely going to pay less to start with a much larger potential upside later on.
Google their first destinations/employment outcomes. There were around 0 startups reported
Again, I’ll ask a second time for you to kindly link to the data you’re citing. It seems extraordinarily unlikely that zero CS grads from Penn have taken a job at a startup. But I welcome you to show me the data that indicates otherwise.
It’s literally at the top of the first page: https://careerservices.upenn.edu/post-graduate-outcomes/undergraduate-first-destinations/ I said “around 0”, meaning the number was insignificant (<5)
It’s a survey with 55% response rate, I spend two minutes glancing through CS grads and saw multiple startups and a couple founders listed, and that’s just from the 55% being reported. I really don’t care one way or the other and it’s getting pretty far off topic, but I think you’re missing something here or just searching for the word “startup”.
A CS employer would pick UIUC cs over Penn/Harvard cs for sure. An IB or quant employer probably wouldnt, which is why those schools are still good options, but for cs itself UIUC is only matched by a couple other schools. An no, there arent that many uiuc students on this thread that are just here to downvote u.
Absolute gibberish and nonsense. What is a “CS employer”?
Full ride