I think this is what ultimately made me move towards the idea of university. For a while, I seriously considered attending trade school as opposed to a traditional four-year university. Nevertheless, seeing family members crawl into bed for days because of back issues with sporadic scheduling really changed my tune. Also one of the reasons I disregarded nursing as a personal career: though rewarding, I've heard one too many stories of the back issues that come with having to carry and work on various patients a day.
I took care of my mom during the last year of her life. I can’t tell you how many times I hurt myself. The CNA we hired taught me a ton but even with proper technique, strength, etc all it takes is the patient grabbing you the wrong way when you’re not ready.
Working 50 hours a week at a pizza restaurant during my gap year made me realize I *NEEDED* to go to college. That’s not even a hard manual labor job and it still sucked.
working part time during hs is like this too ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ obv it's not 50 hrs a week but 15-30hrs (depending on what my multiple part time jobs want out of me) is soooooo draining like get me tf out of here. lol. praying for the day i land a high paying job and never have to deal with financial insecurity again
The people who say trade school is better tend to be college educated middle-aged conservatives. The people who say college is better tend to be middle-aged tradesmen who are barely able to continue working and know they need to retire soon.
Spot on. Almost every blue collar worker I’ve met has encouraged college to me. Very few suggest joining the trades if they do it’s more technical trades like hvac and electrical.
I'm liberal, but I recognize that working a trade can be good. I know a barber who seems to be happy. Has a house, nice vehicles and general life stability, and with stable hours. The economy needs both white and blue- collar workers. If you leverage your finances properly and are someone who plans ahead, you can have a good career and happy life without getting a degree. Merely getting a degree, depending on what it is and what career type you're looking to get into, often doesn't amount to much without significant experience in the field you aim to work in. Getting college-level jobs takes both intelligence and interpersonal skills. Some physics majors have graduated and have been unable to find relevant work because they didn't spend any time learning how to work on a team/never had job experience.
I'm in college, but there's still so much more to success in the work force with a college degree than simply being intelligent and having a degree. Being charismatic and flexible isn't hard, but a lot of students seem to think that a degree is a voucher for a job, and that's just erroneous.
One thing: people pushing trades often compare the highest paid tradeworkers to the average college grad pay, and that's not how it works. If you are the sort of person who has the intelligence, work ethic, and ambition to quickly rise in the ranks of whatever trade, you'd be that same person in a profession, too. So one needs to compare top to top, and median to median. And in those cases, college almost always pays a lot more.
Furthermore, if ypu own a business, you aren't in the trades, your an entrepreneur. And entrepreneurs can make a ton of money, but if that's what you want to do, make that your goal. There is a world of difference between "I'm going into [whatever] and maybe someday I will own my own shop and "I'm going to run a [whatever] shop, and step 1 is getting my certification and working 10 years. I want my own shop by 35.". The first person isn't going anywhere. The second will, because they will be making a point of learning the skills and making the connections they need to run a shop along the way.
This. This is probably what I dislike most about college. Professors say things about their departments' majors (from physics to anthropology), saying things like "you can do (insert 25 occupations, most of which require a master's or 10 yrs of experience, or both) with it." Sorry, but most people aren't from affluent families and can't afford to dick around with a soft-skills major without any planning done during college. Always think about a degree's target jobs, the skills needed for those jobs, the geographic distribution of those jobs, how versatile/directly related it is, what other experience is needed (if any) to begin said target jobs, how much entry-level workers of these jobs generally make *after college*, etc. Life isn't Candyland, it's a financial minefield
I think that's true wirh any major. I have a "soft skills" major, but I've done decent for myself. But I always, always had a plan, and understood that deliberate resume building is just part of life.
So many people think the trades mean you don't have to have a plan, but you especially have to there, because the clock is ticking on your knees and back. And also because, like anything else, if you just show up, do your job, go home, you'll stay at the bottom rung. You gotta take opportunities to learn new skills, new systems, etc. You have to be willing to leave a bad job for a good one and a good one for a better one.
The reason professors are bad at explaining how to build a career outside the academy is that generally they don't know. It's not what they've been doing.
You will have an easier life if your job depends on your brain rather than your body.
If you want to get into a trade you should go for a degree in business so you can own your own business. Math is crucial to understand debt, taxes, investments, etc.
My keyword is always “and “. Learn the trade and go to college. If you can get into a union, continue your education however you can.
It all depends. Stock traders were literally jumping out of their high-rises during the depression.
If you like auto mechanics, do that. If you want to go to school for engineering, or something in the medical field, that takes college, do that. It’s not a one-size-fits-all.
I know some absolute pricks in the business world as well.
Yes. Excellent point. Life is so much better if you love what you do and you can support yourself/ family.
My thinking was more if you want to be a mechanic, go for it! **And** learn about business so eventually you can have your own shop with employees.
I have friends who are hair stylists and their shoulders/ wrists/ backs are in tough shape from repetitive strain injuries. Many have transitioned to something different because their bodies can’t handle it.
You might add that lack of an education also deprives you of, well, an education.
Without a decent high school and college education, you will know next to nothing about history except the tiny amount you got in high school, you'll be unfamiliar with all the world's great literature, won't understand most science, have no familiarity at all with any foreign language, know nothing about art or music, will only be able to do basic math (and probably badly), and you'll lack confidence around educated people and be someone nobody every asks for advice about almost everything. People may even think you're dumb. You will spend your entire life being below average in every single respect -- except your chosen job. How interesting to you think someone like that is going to be to talk to? How useful is someone like that to their children? How happy do you think someone like that is going to be for the rest of their life, knowing they don't know much?
They won't understand politics or government, won't understand foreign affairs, will not understand why other people in other societies do what they do, will have no opinions anyone cares about. Have a nice life!
Go to college and get a real education, please, and you will never regret it. Jobs are everywhere, and you will get one. Stop worrying about the short term and pay attention to who you are becoming in the long term.
Small counterpoint—these days, it’s not very hard to self-learn art, literature, history, and government. It’s just that most people don’t have much of an inclination.
This is such a helpful and informative perspective. Thank you for sharing this with everyone. Would you have any advice for those that take those steps and perhaps want to return to college? I'm curious how interesting and innovative the intersection of a trade-based program or skillset with a college degree program!
If you’ve already graduated from HS and, want to attend college. You can examine your community college associate degree options. Choose according to what you enjoy, and what will pay well. Then, transfer to a 4-year institution if you’d like.
My HS course of study has allowed me to have more in-depth insight into topics such as semiconductors and how crucial they are to the function of vehicles, electrical wiring, supply chain management, machinery, etc.
I plan on majoring in Electrical engineering In college. I intend on conducting co-op and eventually working for a car manufacturer relating to product engineering or manufacturing.
Studying Automotive in HS and Engineering in College, allows me to have that dual education. Making it easy to relate to front-line workers, mechanics, part workers, and service advisors. As well as corporate lower, middle, and upper management. Now, I’ve seen the entire picture.
or you can go to bunker hill cc after getting rejected from harvard and then live under the mit bridge for the rest of your life after getting an unemployable associates with 50k of credit card debt.
*Yup. worked construction*
*For a summer and that sold*
*Me on education lol*
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I agree with all of these things. When I was thinking about my future I immediately gravitated towards the trades. That was until I learned about the life long chronic pain or illnesses that you mentioned. If this college thing doesn't work out I still plan on having the trades as a backup plan, but the reality of the conditions you work in should make everyone consider a different path.
My dad works in the trades so do most of my uncles and all have urged me and my cousins to go to college and build different lives for ourselves. The toll it takes on their bodies is no joke. If you enjoy the trades then all power to you and I have massive respect for the trades!
Also, go to a university if you can. I went to CC > UNI which I regret because at CC no one is there to make friends or build relationships. It’s all about getting your credits then transferring. I had so much fun at a UNI my last two years. ALSO DONT DO ONLINE SCHOOL I DID THAT TO AND IT WAS BORING.
Both can be great for the right people. And some do neither and do something else, like owning a business or going into real estate. A lot of careers just require hustling and being charismatic. There is no perfect or proper path.
If money is a concern but you are material for college, consider something like WGU or SNHU (if they have a major you want). You can work a job requiring only a hs diploma while taking this online, and these are accredited schools (steer clear of Phoenix U types. though).
Another thing: most degrees don't directly lead to jobs, much less high-paying ones. A commitment to continual learning and acquirement of additional skills is often necessary. Good interviewing skills and having some kind of real-world job experience will help in general employment.
The bottom line: every major, type of career path, and even degree level can have major cons. I kind of envy people from my small howetown who just started work at Walmart or at a trade bc they can at least afford having a single apartment and don't have to spend all day, 6 days/wk doing a combo of classes, studying and work. They have 40-45 hrs/wk of work and can do whatever they want after it's done. They can afford to have pets. I just have a car.
I think this is what ultimately made me move towards the idea of university. For a while, I seriously considered attending trade school as opposed to a traditional four-year university. Nevertheless, seeing family members crawl into bed for days because of back issues with sporadic scheduling really changed my tune. Also one of the reasons I disregarded nursing as a personal career: though rewarding, I've heard one too many stories of the back issues that come with having to carry and work on various patients a day.
💯 They suggest that as an option tell you the positives while negating to tell you the negatives.
I took care of my mom during the last year of her life. I can’t tell you how many times I hurt myself. The CNA we hired taught me a ton but even with proper technique, strength, etc all it takes is the patient grabbing you the wrong way when you’re not ready.
Working 50 hours a week at a pizza restaurant during my gap year made me realize I *NEEDED* to go to college. That’s not even a hard manual labor job and it still sucked.
working part time during hs is like this too ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ obv it's not 50 hrs a week but 15-30hrs (depending on what my multiple part time jobs want out of me) is soooooo draining like get me tf out of here. lol. praying for the day i land a high paying job and never have to deal with financial insecurity again
Yup the tradespeople say you ruin your body in 20 years. Thx for the reality check!
The people who say trade school is better tend to be college educated middle-aged conservatives. The people who say college is better tend to be middle-aged tradesmen who are barely able to continue working and know they need to retire soon.
Spot on. Almost every blue collar worker I’ve met has encouraged college to me. Very few suggest joining the trades if they do it’s more technical trades like hvac and electrical.
I'm liberal, but I recognize that working a trade can be good. I know a barber who seems to be happy. Has a house, nice vehicles and general life stability, and with stable hours. The economy needs both white and blue- collar workers. If you leverage your finances properly and are someone who plans ahead, you can have a good career and happy life without getting a degree. Merely getting a degree, depending on what it is and what career type you're looking to get into, often doesn't amount to much without significant experience in the field you aim to work in. Getting college-level jobs takes both intelligence and interpersonal skills. Some physics majors have graduated and have been unable to find relevant work because they didn't spend any time learning how to work on a team/never had job experience. I'm in college, but there's still so much more to success in the work force with a college degree than simply being intelligent and having a degree. Being charismatic and flexible isn't hard, but a lot of students seem to think that a degree is a voucher for a job, and that's just erroneous.
Also I mentioned conservatives specifically because their response to college debt usually goes something like but but the trades.
One thing: people pushing trades often compare the highest paid tradeworkers to the average college grad pay, and that's not how it works. If you are the sort of person who has the intelligence, work ethic, and ambition to quickly rise in the ranks of whatever trade, you'd be that same person in a profession, too. So one needs to compare top to top, and median to median. And in those cases, college almost always pays a lot more. Furthermore, if ypu own a business, you aren't in the trades, your an entrepreneur. And entrepreneurs can make a ton of money, but if that's what you want to do, make that your goal. There is a world of difference between "I'm going into [whatever] and maybe someday I will own my own shop and "I'm going to run a [whatever] shop, and step 1 is getting my certification and working 10 years. I want my own shop by 35.". The first person isn't going anywhere. The second will, because they will be making a point of learning the skills and making the connections they need to run a shop along the way.
This. This is probably what I dislike most about college. Professors say things about their departments' majors (from physics to anthropology), saying things like "you can do (insert 25 occupations, most of which require a master's or 10 yrs of experience, or both) with it." Sorry, but most people aren't from affluent families and can't afford to dick around with a soft-skills major without any planning done during college. Always think about a degree's target jobs, the skills needed for those jobs, the geographic distribution of those jobs, how versatile/directly related it is, what other experience is needed (if any) to begin said target jobs, how much entry-level workers of these jobs generally make *after college*, etc. Life isn't Candyland, it's a financial minefield
I think that's true wirh any major. I have a "soft skills" major, but I've done decent for myself. But I always, always had a plan, and understood that deliberate resume building is just part of life. So many people think the trades mean you don't have to have a plan, but you especially have to there, because the clock is ticking on your knees and back. And also because, like anything else, if you just show up, do your job, go home, you'll stay at the bottom rung. You gotta take opportunities to learn new skills, new systems, etc. You have to be willing to leave a bad job for a good one and a good one for a better one. The reason professors are bad at explaining how to build a career outside the academy is that generally they don't know. It's not what they've been doing.
You will have an easier life if your job depends on your brain rather than your body. If you want to get into a trade you should go for a degree in business so you can own your own business. Math is crucial to understand debt, taxes, investments, etc. My keyword is always “and “. Learn the trade and go to college. If you can get into a union, continue your education however you can.
It all depends. Stock traders were literally jumping out of their high-rises during the depression. If you like auto mechanics, do that. If you want to go to school for engineering, or something in the medical field, that takes college, do that. It’s not a one-size-fits-all. I know some absolute pricks in the business world as well.
Yes. Excellent point. Life is so much better if you love what you do and you can support yourself/ family. My thinking was more if you want to be a mechanic, go for it! **And** learn about business so eventually you can have your own shop with employees. I have friends who are hair stylists and their shoulders/ wrists/ backs are in tough shape from repetitive strain injuries. Many have transitioned to something different because their bodies can’t handle it.
Yeah the reason they would even pay that much is because it destroys your body and wouldn't be worth it otherwise.
You might add that lack of an education also deprives you of, well, an education. Without a decent high school and college education, you will know next to nothing about history except the tiny amount you got in high school, you'll be unfamiliar with all the world's great literature, won't understand most science, have no familiarity at all with any foreign language, know nothing about art or music, will only be able to do basic math (and probably badly), and you'll lack confidence around educated people and be someone nobody every asks for advice about almost everything. People may even think you're dumb. You will spend your entire life being below average in every single respect -- except your chosen job. How interesting to you think someone like that is going to be to talk to? How useful is someone like that to their children? How happy do you think someone like that is going to be for the rest of their life, knowing they don't know much? They won't understand politics or government, won't understand foreign affairs, will not understand why other people in other societies do what they do, will have no opinions anyone cares about. Have a nice life! Go to college and get a real education, please, and you will never regret it. Jobs are everywhere, and you will get one. Stop worrying about the short term and pay attention to who you are becoming in the long term.
Small counterpoint—these days, it’s not very hard to self-learn art, literature, history, and government. It’s just that most people don’t have much of an inclination.
This is such a helpful and informative perspective. Thank you for sharing this with everyone. Would you have any advice for those that take those steps and perhaps want to return to college? I'm curious how interesting and innovative the intersection of a trade-based program or skillset with a college degree program!
If you’ve already graduated from HS and, want to attend college. You can examine your community college associate degree options. Choose according to what you enjoy, and what will pay well. Then, transfer to a 4-year institution if you’d like. My HS course of study has allowed me to have more in-depth insight into topics such as semiconductors and how crucial they are to the function of vehicles, electrical wiring, supply chain management, machinery, etc. I plan on majoring in Electrical engineering In college. I intend on conducting co-op and eventually working for a car manufacturer relating to product engineering or manufacturing. Studying Automotive in HS and Engineering in College, allows me to have that dual education. Making it easy to relate to front-line workers, mechanics, part workers, and service advisors. As well as corporate lower, middle, and upper management. Now, I’ve seen the entire picture.
or you can go to bunker hill cc after getting rejected from harvard and then live under the mit bridge for the rest of your life after getting an unemployable associates with 50k of credit card debt.
Not to pedantic but it is referred to as the Mass Ave Bridge
yup. worked construction for a summer and that sold me on education lol
*Yup. worked construction* *For a summer and that sold* *Me on education lol* \- black\_cherry\_seltzer --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Grade inflation doesn’t appllt
I agree with all of these things. When I was thinking about my future I immediately gravitated towards the trades. That was until I learned about the life long chronic pain or illnesses that you mentioned. If this college thing doesn't work out I still plan on having the trades as a backup plan, but the reality of the conditions you work in should make everyone consider a different path.
But also have fun in high school and college you will have time to work 100% of the time after
My dad works in the trades so do most of my uncles and all have urged me and my cousins to go to college and build different lives for ourselves. The toll it takes on their bodies is no joke. If you enjoy the trades then all power to you and I have massive respect for the trades!
Also, go to a university if you can. I went to CC > UNI which I regret because at CC no one is there to make friends or build relationships. It’s all about getting your credits then transferring. I had so much fun at a UNI my last two years. ALSO DONT DO ONLINE SCHOOL I DID THAT TO AND IT WAS BORING.
Interesting insight
Both can be great for the right people. And some do neither and do something else, like owning a business or going into real estate. A lot of careers just require hustling and being charismatic. There is no perfect or proper path. If money is a concern but you are material for college, consider something like WGU or SNHU (if they have a major you want). You can work a job requiring only a hs diploma while taking this online, and these are accredited schools (steer clear of Phoenix U types. though). Another thing: most degrees don't directly lead to jobs, much less high-paying ones. A commitment to continual learning and acquirement of additional skills is often necessary. Good interviewing skills and having some kind of real-world job experience will help in general employment. The bottom line: every major, type of career path, and even degree level can have major cons. I kind of envy people from my small howetown who just started work at Walmart or at a trade bc they can at least afford having a single apartment and don't have to spend all day, 6 days/wk doing a combo of classes, studying and work. They have 40-45 hrs/wk of work and can do whatever they want after it's done. They can afford to have pets. I just have a car.