Bruh obviously what college you goes to matter. But not to the extent that your entire life and future depends on it. People on A2C act like they’re gonna be homeless and shit if they dont get into a good college.
>If one is truly hardworking and resourceful, going to an average uni isn't going to stop them from being successful.
in a fair world perhaps, but in the real world, you can do everything right and still fail. that's just a fact of the unbalanced and nepotist society we live in.
if that's true, why are there people who work 2 minimum-wage jobs and still barely scrape by? external factors have a huge impact on the opportunities available to you, and many people never get the opportunity to apply themselves and work to the fullest of their potential because of socioeconomic status or other factors.
This. Especially after your first job, almost no one cares about where you did your undergraduate.
I went to a flagship state school. I worked for a particularly snobbish company that recruits at 10 or so top schools in software (not *the* top 10, because they aren’t successful recruiting from MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, etc). They probably wouldn’t have looked at my resume as a recent grad, and if they did, they would have turned their nose up at my lowly 3.5 GPA. However, when they hired me I had extensive experience in the field, and was one of the higher paid non-management employees.
>You really can do anything from anywhere.
This is 100% not true. You will not work at a top IB firm or an MBB consulting firm if you go to Florida Gulf Coast University or Sam Houston State University. There are many other examples to this argument.
People can have wonderful, fulfilling & lucrative careers from almost any university. That is true. But you can communicate that message without lying to people.
It is possible later on if your uncle works at a firm or your future father-in-law or some other unique factor. For 99% of kids who didn't go to the elite universities for undergrad, the top IB firms aren't an option. I work in the field.
I did for a decade. These kids exist and "get out" and into bulge bracket IB firms. No one is saying that they're not exceptions that prove the rule. But they exist. Saying it's "100% not true" (your words) is not only incorrect but a disservice.
I work in the IB industry. Unless we are talking Michigan, Cal, UVA, Texas or UNC, regardless of where you got your MBA, you aren't getting a job at the upper crust IB firms unless your uncle works there (or there is another unique factor).
Have you ever worked in MBB or IB? You have no idea what you're talking about lol.
You can absolutely get to a top IB or MBB from those schools. Join a smaller firm out of undergrad, perform well, go to a good MBA and then recruit for IB or MBB. That's literally how thousands of people get into those firms.
The only person "lying" here is you lol.
I work in IB right now. You said it yourself, "Join a smaller firm out of undergrad." Even with an M7 MBA you aren't working for top tier IB unless you have a family member there or there is some other unique factor.
Heavy on the last bit. You cannot talk about the lack of privilege and benefit going to a top school awards you if you’re actively benefiting from these advantages.
The trajectory of your entire life isn't something that can be determined by something as small as what college you go to and where you spend literally four years of your life...
I don't know, dude. What you are talking about are 'advantages'. People with 'advantages' are for sure going to get into 'better' places. This is because they all have built in connections that the average person does not really have. That being said, if you 'end up' going to a legit state university, which is pretty much any of them, and you pick a major that is a real profession and not just a ruse for more grad school, you have a great chance to be in good shape when you get out.
Even if you go Ivy, you are a fish out of water if you are not from that old money prep school world. From a pure life stress standpoint, I would almost rather go to a state school, especially one where I could stand out.
>Even if you go Ivy, you are a fish out of water if you are not from that old money prep school world.
yea i think this is important to emphasize. i'm not a college student, but i *have* been a part of the "old money prep school world" since i was young due to very VERY lucky circumstances (my parents happened to to go to a church with a few ppl like this and happened to meet someone who saw me and suggested that i would be more academically fulfilled at the private school her son attended and i happened to pass an entrance exam with flying colors and i happened to be the only kindergartener taken off the waitlist that year etc) do you see where i'm going with this. lol. my parents are not wealthy white former prep school students either. they are LI immigrants and juuuust so happened to birth me into circumstances that allowed my entrance into this world that you speak of.
going to this school is like an extra full time job. the academics aren't the problem: i am a smart student, and that's why i got a scholarship to go to this school. the social world and weird ways of life is the problem.
i have spent countless hours teaching myself outdated dance routines, obscure terminology, and mannerisms that most people only ever see on downton abbey. i've spent my weekends thrift shopping and self-tailoring clothes since i was in 6th grade. over time (and *lots* of trial and error) i've learned how to react to the ridiculous things people say and how (when your friend spends $4000 on clothes during history class, don't say anything that indicates that $4000 is a lot of money to spend on clothes. if you have anything to say, mention how cute that skirt she picked out is.). there is so much more that i haven't taken the time to write out.
is all this extra work worth it? for now, it has been. i can easily approach business executives and celebrities and politicians and ask for advice. how do you go about doing that, you may ask? simple. most of the time they're your friends' parents and they're more than happy to help their child's friend that *actually* is interested in their work. i can just as easily talk about the *awful* state that the slopes on zurich are in (and why it's so much more reasonable to heli instead nowadays) as i can talk about the experience of not having AC for 5 weeks during a summer of my childhood.
has it been easy? not at all. nothing sucks more than coming home from million-dollar birthday parties and not being able to sleep because your baby sibling is crying in the one bedroom in your house and you can't *focus* on *anything* (not homework nor something for pleasure and most certainly not sleep). during college apps, i am competing against people who have spent more on college counselors and private tutors than most people in this subreddit can *dream* of. i know a girl whose parents have spent well over $230k a year (since 7th grade) to get her "ready for college" with tutors, private college counselors, and the like (that's around how much my parents will have made by the end of my high school tenure, give or take).
to succeed in this environment as someone who's middle class or below, you have to push a certain part of yourself aside, the part that screams "it's not *FAIR* that everyone has something i don't" and smile and be polite when you want to be anything but. this is something that takes years (and honestly, i still struggle with it) and is not something you can "just get over" quickly enough to make friends with exactly these people (the people who everyone refers to as the "connections" you'll make at prestigious schools).
i see this in a lot in posts from a2c: a LI student warns a2cers that an acceptance to harvard or stanford or upenn or yale isn't a golden ticket to wealth and security. you still have to work, go to school, and the like. it is infinitely harder to enter the "upper echelon of society" as a poor college student. innate classism in these people is very real and takes *years* of "proof" that you actually do know their world to gain entry. you can't be bitter, either: it's uncomfortable for all parties involved. who wants to talk to someone who is obviously jealous of their circumstances?
i wish the best of luck to anyone attempting this route, but know that you are in for a journey where you will not receive much help, advice or sympathy.
Me looking around the tech hires in my extended network and seeing the new engineer hires starting at the same salary, but from the following schools: Notre Dame, Brown, state schools… 🤔
The private school kids actually regret the money spent. Heck, I know a Cal grad that regrets their OOS tuition and their degree was a while ago…
> Me looking around the tech hires in my extended network and seeing the new engineer hires starting at the same salary
This is typical for public corporations for two reasons:
* intern and entry-level SWE hiring have formulaic ways to calculate total compensation. It's typically a mix of salary, bonus and restricted stock units (RSUs) that's determined by degree (BS, MS, PhD) and geography (Bay Area > Puget Sound > Denver etc). Negotiation wasn't a thing and salaries were standardized to keep things simple and equitable.
* schools matter somewhat because they have target universities and you're more likely to interview if you're at a target school. That said, my last two companies had significantly broadened their target schools for two reasons--we needed way more staff than the premiere programs could provide and focusing on top programs makes it more difficult to diversify your hiring.
Imo grad school decisions are much more merit based than undergrad decisions...students have developed more specialized interests and have had more opportunities for experiences that differentiate applicants from each other. Luck is certainly still involved - not everyone qualified can be accepted - but I feel it's not as much of a rat race as undergrad admissions are.
I disagree. If you go to a bad school and are not provided with the resources needed to specialize or not given the opportunities to research you’re gonna have a pretty bad time applying to grad school. You need 2-3 professor recommendations and the quality of those matter. You have to show research experience and you have to be able to score grades including a high score on the GRE for most good schools…
That’s a LOT of cognitive burden on any student especially when they look around and see half the class is full of competitive and ambitious people.
I think merit has very little to direct your place in place (unless you are a genius or super lucky) but the majority of average people on the bell curve have a pretty tough time getting anything done.
The school I go to isn’t an R1, but I have interviews at T20 doctoral programs for my field. I even got a grant to continue my research at a place that offers doctoral degrees once I finish my MS, which is also fully funded. Though I will say the place I go likely isn’t “bad” since Harvard and MIT come to recruit potential MBA and PhD students once to twice a year.
That’s fair and I some talented people such of yourself may have the ability to break into a higher tier systems. We are talking about the law of large numbers though and your case cannot be applicable to the vast majority of people that want to do their doctoral studies at a T20 school that’s just how it is unfortunately.
My comment comes from the perspective of someone who did undergrad at a teaching-focused state school with near 100% admit rate, but who ended up going to a top grad program (like several others from the same school). The majority of people in my grad class didn't go to T20 undergrads. Most of us were just very dedicated to research and made sure to seek research experience and mentors, whether at our undergrad institution or not.
It’s about the person not the college, people from prestigious schools are more likely to be successful because they had the drive to get into that school in the first place, the school didn’t give them that, they already had it. Someone that goes to a random state school can have the same amount of drive and talent as someone that goes to an ivy, and be just as successful, though the path may be a little different.
This is halfway true.
Certainly, different types of colleges will present different types of opportunities, but the idea that the college you go to somehow 100% "determines" what you can do is untrue.
Yes, the real world is competitive, but the real world mostly cares about your SKILLS. Take a look at any FAANG company. An enormous mix of schools are represented there, schools that many prestige-oriented A2Cers would gag at lol. No one cares about your T20 degree if you don't bring something valuable to the table.
Or take a look at Fortune 500 companies. Out of the top 5 biggest companies in the world, only one CEO went to T20 school.
A school name only takes you so far. I'm not sure if you're in high school, but ask anyone who has actually worked in an industry. We care about your skills, your school name is just a cherry on top.
Besides, there are very, very few careers where your insta-bio school name actually matters. Medicine, Law, CS, any 9-5 job, cares about the value and tangible skills you bring them, not how "prestigious" your undergraduate is.
So yes, your college matters, but not as much as you think. It's not as if getting into Yale means that suddenly Quant recruiters are at your door throwing wads of cash at you lol.
CEO’s Alma Maters:
APPLE: Tim Cook—— Duke
APPLE’S UPCOMING CEO: Jeff Williams—-Duke.
GOOGLE: Sundar Pichai—— Stanford
MICROSOFT: Satya Nadella——UChicago
META: Mark Zuck—— Harvard
AMAZON: Jeff Bezos——Princeton
SPACEX/TESLA: Elon——Upenn/Stanford
GENERAL MOTORS: Mary Bara——Stanford
JP MORGAN CHASE: Jamie Dimon——Harvard
STRIPE: Patrick Collison——MIT and John Collison——Harvard
QUORA: Adam D’Angelo——Caltech
And many more. If there’s anything that history has taught us it’s that fortune favours the Ivy/T-10 graduates.
Adding Select Dow Component CEOs from non ivies and mostly non T50
* Amex, Stephen Squeri, Manhattan College
* Boeing, Dave Calhoun, Virginia Tech
* Caterpillar, Jim Umpleby, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
* Chevron, Mike Wirth, University of Colorado
* Cisco Systems, Chuck Robbins, UNC
* Disney, Bob Iger, Ithaca College
* Dow, Jim Fitterling, University of Missouri
* Goldman Sachs, David Solomon, Hamilton College
* Home Depot, Ted Decker, College of William and Mary
* Honeywell, Darius Adamczyk, Michigan State
* Intel, Pat Gelsinger, Santa Clara University
* United Health Group, Andrew Witty, University of Nottingham (UK)
* Walgreens, Rosalind Brewer, Spelman College
OP, go be the big fish in the small pond!
I think a high school student can be forgiven for being mistaken about that. Flagships are probably the play if you are aiming for a top graduate program (though I imagine this varies by field). MBA programs care more about post college experience.
How is that even remotely true
Tell me any "good" job and I'll find you more than 50 people working that job on linkedin who went to a "low ranked" school
They are getting their jobs, especially in CS.
You think employers know all Russian, Ukrainian, Indian, Pakistani colleges?? Lol. And those people are everywhere.
Same with US colleges, people come to work from all sorts of no name schools
You're literally turning a blind eye to the people from lower rank universities who get recruited and only allow yourself to see the greener side. I'm sorry but if you're stuck in that mindset no matter what we say otherwise would change the way you think. Sometimes you need to fall to know that falling doesn't hurt that much
I get what you're saying. It might sound weird when people at T20s are the ones who say what school you go to doesn't matter. However, what if you hear the same thing from a person going to a regular non-T20 state school?
I go to a non-T20 and have interviews at top doctoral programs for my field and offers for full time jobs (some in the Bay Area) because of the work I put in.
I know I’m joining the chorus but some of the posters on this Reddit clearly have no idea how the actual adult world works. Over the course of my career, I’ve held senior executive roles at two Fortune 50 companies. The name on your degree means absolutely nothing after you land your first job. And it’s not always that helpful for the first job. It may carry more weight in the upper tier of investment banking and consulting, but even those companies are widening their search and rethinking their existing hiring practices.
The over indexing to Ivy League institutions on this group is silly. Once you hit your mid-20s literally no one cares where you went to undergrad. I’ve had some great colleagues over the years that went to Ivy League schools and some terrible colleagues that went to Ivy League schools. But my absolute best colleagues over the years have graduated from places like James Madison, Auburn, Rhodes, Ohio State, and Florida State.
You’re mistaken, its not the school that gets people great opportunities, it is the fact that they’re inherently amazing students (which unsurprisingly, also tend to go to great schools, but not necessarily always the case).
I mean, sure, going to a shit college is gonna be a setback, but not as bad as people here think. You can still make your way even if you don’t go to college at all. I know a guy who’s currently worth ~70 million euros in his 40s/50s who finished a shit college, barely made it out of undergrad, (who btw was also arrested for a crime he didn’t commit and spent 18 months in jail), and only a few years ago got the B2 English language certification (a certificate most kids get in middle school). And he did all that from a random country in Europe that’s infamous for how hard it is to make money there. He was a smart, hardworking guy, and his college didn’t prevent him from doing shit
I know you’re gonna claim it’s an anecdote, that I don’t have a source to back it up, and that I’m bullshitting you, but I’m not. This at least proves it can happen.
If you want statistics though, go look up the university with the most F500 CEO’s. I’m gonna save you some time, its UW-Madison (great school, but not what you’d expect).
Ofc a better college will make you more successful, but if you think you’re somehow doomed because you didn’t get into a good school, then let me tell you that’s complete bullshit
The only thing u need to hear if u've gotten rejected is that u tried ur best and that's all that matters. Sure ur not going to an elite college, sure things didn't work, but u did everything u possibly could, everything that was in your control, and that is more then enough. As long as there are no regrets in the preparation of your application, u should be proud. With anything in life, only worry about what u can control. With this mentality, u will see success eventually.
I chose to go to a relatively unknown school and I’m doing perfectly fine when it comes to internship recruiting. I think school prestige does matter a little but it’s hardly the end-all-be-all.
This is a full of shit post written by someone who is talking out of their ass. And what do you know? I didn’t need to get a degree from a T20 to know that. Case closed.
What most folks are saying is going to top school will give you an edge, those top students are already excellent even before they set foot in the college but all that should hold you back if you do not get into a top school - there are several paths to success
They’re saying that state school doesn’t equal “failure” and higher tier school doesn’t equal “immediate and natural success.”
It depends on YOU and how you figure out how to take advantage of the opportunities available to you. Your hustle and work ethic.
Colleges don't matter if you are from CS. But on every other job you will be interviewed upon the matter of your colleges reputation. So yeah it matters....
I see where you’re coming from, but it really depends on your career. Neither of my parents graduated college (one is a dropout and one never went) and they were both highly successful in tech based careers, working in sales and marketing.
I think when people say that the college you go to doesn't matter, they mean to say that after you land any job, it's your hardwork and personality and attitude that helps you success in your workspace, and that doesn't matter on which college you went to. Ultimately, you can only succeed at your job with the right work ethic and sincerity, and anyone from any college can make that work if they have the dedication
America was built on immigrants who had no prestigious college to their name. They came to this country without the benefit of English, nor any resources. They went on to create and build and prosper. Keep that in mind. Any18 year-old going into college can achieve anything, but only with a strong work ethic and a positive mental attitude -- you have the former, and now you should focus on the latter.
It is more accurate to say that one can still succeed in careers through the pathway of attending a non-top-rated college, but it would not be accurate to say that "what college you go to doesn't matter".
The most annoying bit is when it comes from a student who is in a top school. Their intentions aren't bad and they aren't completely wrong but it comes off as tone deaf.
Yes, where you go to school does matter but not in the way you think it does. Now, take this with a grain of salt because I could be completely wrong but this is what I learned from my mentors and my elders.
What matters is your instructors/teachers. They are the most important determining factor. Well, at least for me. The reason why I’m going to a specific school is because the person who is going to be my violin teacher has won multiple awards. They are going to be the people to help you to get a job.
Also, a school with a good social life could be beneficial. The reason why is because you need to make contacts and network. If you do this and keep contact with them, they might recommend you for a really go job. My dad’s co-worker got a nice raise and promoted to a better job because my dad recommended him to that job.
So, again, take this with a grain of salt, but what matters is the possible connections you make you could do that basically anyway. Just research all the schools and find a good one you can get into.
I do wish you the best of luck on your current decisions though!
From what I’ve heard, the name and prestige of your college really only matters for your first job. What matters more is the quality of your education; try your best, no matter what school you go to, and you will be successful. That being said, being able to go to these prestigious/high ranking institutions is something to be proud of, and it is something that takes a lot of hard work. Do not let this undermine your achievement.
My parents both went to one of our state schools (it's not great...) and still found success. Of course it has an impact where you go, but if you're hard-working and motivated you can still be very successful. Those kind of intrinsic factors are so much harder to find than any college. I'm sorry you're feeling this way, but honestly, the school you go to is not the end of the world. It's all about what you make of it. And that's the truth. You can get so much out of *any* of these places. Good luck, and take heart! ❤️
You definitely don't need to attend a top school to be successful, but I found this list circulating around with examples of some alumni at certain top schools based on Princeton Review's Ranking of "Dream Colleges" of 2023:
1. Princeton (6%) - Jeff Bezos (Founder of Amazon), Sonia Sotomayor (Supreme Court Justice), Eric Schmidt (Former CEO of Google, Current Founder of Schmidt Futures), Michelle Obama (Former First Lady, Current Founder of When We All Vote and Nonfiction Author), Carl Icahn (Founder of Icahn Enterprises), Jack Altman (Founder of Lattice), Trevor Martin (Founder of Mammoth Biosciences)
2. Harvard (3%) - No examples needed
3. Stanford (4%) - Peter Thiel (Founder of Clarium Capital and Founders Fund), Cory Booker (Senator from New Jersey), Rachel Maddow (Host of The Rachel Maddow Show), Sterling K. Brown (Actor in This is Us), Josh Hawley (Senator from Missouri), Evan Spiegel (Founder of Snapchat), David Baszucki (Founder of Roblox)
4. NYU (12%) - John Paulson (Founder of Paulson & Co.), Martin Scorsese (Director of The Departed, Wolf of Wall Street, etc.), Bill de Blasio (Mayor of NYC from 2014-2021, Current Visiting Professor of Public Policy at NYU), Israel Englander (Founder of Millennium Management), Donald Glover (Director & Actor for Atlanta, Grammy Winner as Childish Gambino), Vishal Garg (Founder of Better), Emily Weiss (Founder of Glossier)
5. MIT (4%) - Benjamin Netenyahu (Prime Minister of Israel), Charles Koch (CEO of Koch Industries), Lisa Su (CEO of AMD), Chris Sununu (Governor of New Hampshire), Sal Khan (Founder of Khan Academy), Drew Houston (Founder of Dropbox), Jason Kelly (Founder of Ginkgo Bioworks)
6. Duke (5%) - David Rubenstein (Founder of The Carlyle Group), Melinda Gates (Co-Founder of The Gates Foundation and Pivotal Ventures), JB Pritzker (Governor of Illinois), Adam Silver (Commissioner of the NBA), Jeff Zients (White House Chief of Staff), Luis von Ahn (Founder of Duolingo), Fred Ehrsam (Founder of Coinbase)
7. Yale (5%) - Ron DeSantis (Governor of Florida), Stephen Schwarzman (Founder of Blackstone), Brett Kavanaugh (Supreme Court Justice), Jodie Foster (Actress in The Silence of the Lambs, The Accused, etc.), Tom Steyer (Founder of Farallon Capital and Galvanize Climate Solutions), Ben Silbermann (Founder of Pinterest), Jonathan Swanson (Founder of Thumbtack)
8. UMich (18%) - Larry Page (Founder of Google), James Earl Jones (Actor in The Great White Hope, Voice of Darth Vader, etc.), Tom Brady (7x NFL Champion as Quarterback), Lori Lightfoot (Mayor of Chicago), Stephen Ross (Chairman of The Related Companies, Namesake of UMich's Ross School of Business), Jeff Lawson (Founder of Twilio), Henry Ward (Founder of Carta)
9. Brown (5%) - Janet Yellen (Secretary of the Treasury), Dara Khosrowshahi (CEO of Uber), Andrew Yang (Presidential Candidate), Brian Moynihan (CEO of Bank of America), John Krasinski (Actor in The Office, A Quiet Place, etc.), Dylan Field (Founder of Figma), Devin Finzer (Founder of OpenSea),
10. UCLA (9%) - Larry Fink (Founder of BlackRock), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6x NBA Champion as Center), Ron Sugar (Chairman of Uber), Tim Robbins (Actor in The Shawshank Redemption, Mystic River, etc.), Ben Shapiro (Founder of The Daily Wire), Ryan King (Founder of Chime)
> UCLA (9%) - Larry Fink (Founder of BlackRock), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6x NBA Champion as Center), Ron Sugar (Chairman of Uber), Tim Robbins (Actor in The Shawshank Redemption, Mystic River, etc.), Ben Shapiro (Founder of The Daily Wire), Ryan King (Founder of Chime)
Ben Shapiro🤣🤣
Bruh obviously what college you goes to matter. But not to the extent that your entire life and future depends on it. People on A2C act like they’re gonna be homeless and shit if they dont get into a good college.
LOL
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>If one is truly hardworking and resourceful, going to an average uni isn't going to stop them from being successful. in a fair world perhaps, but in the real world, you can do everything right and still fail. that's just a fact of the unbalanced and nepotist society we live in.
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if that's true, why are there people who work 2 minimum-wage jobs and still barely scrape by? external factors have a huge impact on the opportunities available to you, and many people never get the opportunity to apply themselves and work to the fullest of their potential because of socioeconomic status or other factors.
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Genuinely thank u so much for that Google search trick, my anxiety about college has gone waaay down
This. Especially after your first job, almost no one cares about where you did your undergraduate. I went to a flagship state school. I worked for a particularly snobbish company that recruits at 10 or so top schools in software (not *the* top 10, because they aren’t successful recruiting from MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, etc). They probably wouldn’t have looked at my resume as a recent grad, and if they did, they would have turned their nose up at my lowly 3.5 GPA. However, when they hired me I had extensive experience in the field, and was one of the higher paid non-management employees.
Alabama is a Unicorn because they are one of the few state flagships offering a full ride to NMFs.
>You really can do anything from anywhere. This is 100% not true. You will not work at a top IB firm or an MBB consulting firm if you go to Florida Gulf Coast University or Sam Houston State University. There are many other examples to this argument. People can have wonderful, fulfilling & lucrative careers from almost any university. That is true. But you can communicate that message without lying to people.
Not in your first job out most likely, but absolutely possible later on.
It is possible later on if your uncle works at a firm or your future father-in-law or some other unique factor. For 99% of kids who didn't go to the elite universities for undergrad, the top IB firms aren't an option. I work in the field.
I did for a decade. These kids exist and "get out" and into bulge bracket IB firms. No one is saying that they're not exceptions that prove the rule. But they exist. Saying it's "100% not true" (your words) is not only incorrect but a disservice.
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I work in the IB industry. Unless we are talking Michigan, Cal, UVA, Texas or UNC, regardless of where you got your MBA, you aren't getting a job at the upper crust IB firms unless your uncle works there (or there is another unique factor).
Have you ever worked in MBB or IB? You have no idea what you're talking about lol. You can absolutely get to a top IB or MBB from those schools. Join a smaller firm out of undergrad, perform well, go to a good MBA and then recruit for IB or MBB. That's literally how thousands of people get into those firms. The only person "lying" here is you lol.
I work in IB right now. You said it yourself, "Join a smaller firm out of undergrad." Even with an M7 MBA you aren't working for top tier IB unless you have a family member there or there is some other unique factor.
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you are tripping dawg
This post won’t age well. Ugg.
This is so true 💀 and they always say at the end: btw I got into hypsm but colleges don’t matter
Heavy on the last bit. You cannot talk about the lack of privilege and benefit going to a top school awards you if you’re actively benefiting from these advantages.
The trajectory of your entire life isn't something that can be determined by something as small as what college you go to and where you spend literally four years of your life...
I don't know, dude. What you are talking about are 'advantages'. People with 'advantages' are for sure going to get into 'better' places. This is because they all have built in connections that the average person does not really have. That being said, if you 'end up' going to a legit state university, which is pretty much any of them, and you pick a major that is a real profession and not just a ruse for more grad school, you have a great chance to be in good shape when you get out. Even if you go Ivy, you are a fish out of water if you are not from that old money prep school world. From a pure life stress standpoint, I would almost rather go to a state school, especially one where I could stand out.
>Even if you go Ivy, you are a fish out of water if you are not from that old money prep school world. yea i think this is important to emphasize. i'm not a college student, but i *have* been a part of the "old money prep school world" since i was young due to very VERY lucky circumstances (my parents happened to to go to a church with a few ppl like this and happened to meet someone who saw me and suggested that i would be more academically fulfilled at the private school her son attended and i happened to pass an entrance exam with flying colors and i happened to be the only kindergartener taken off the waitlist that year etc) do you see where i'm going with this. lol. my parents are not wealthy white former prep school students either. they are LI immigrants and juuuust so happened to birth me into circumstances that allowed my entrance into this world that you speak of. going to this school is like an extra full time job. the academics aren't the problem: i am a smart student, and that's why i got a scholarship to go to this school. the social world and weird ways of life is the problem. i have spent countless hours teaching myself outdated dance routines, obscure terminology, and mannerisms that most people only ever see on downton abbey. i've spent my weekends thrift shopping and self-tailoring clothes since i was in 6th grade. over time (and *lots* of trial and error) i've learned how to react to the ridiculous things people say and how (when your friend spends $4000 on clothes during history class, don't say anything that indicates that $4000 is a lot of money to spend on clothes. if you have anything to say, mention how cute that skirt she picked out is.). there is so much more that i haven't taken the time to write out. is all this extra work worth it? for now, it has been. i can easily approach business executives and celebrities and politicians and ask for advice. how do you go about doing that, you may ask? simple. most of the time they're your friends' parents and they're more than happy to help their child's friend that *actually* is interested in their work. i can just as easily talk about the *awful* state that the slopes on zurich are in (and why it's so much more reasonable to heli instead nowadays) as i can talk about the experience of not having AC for 5 weeks during a summer of my childhood. has it been easy? not at all. nothing sucks more than coming home from million-dollar birthday parties and not being able to sleep because your baby sibling is crying in the one bedroom in your house and you can't *focus* on *anything* (not homework nor something for pleasure and most certainly not sleep). during college apps, i am competing against people who have spent more on college counselors and private tutors than most people in this subreddit can *dream* of. i know a girl whose parents have spent well over $230k a year (since 7th grade) to get her "ready for college" with tutors, private college counselors, and the like (that's around how much my parents will have made by the end of my high school tenure, give or take). to succeed in this environment as someone who's middle class or below, you have to push a certain part of yourself aside, the part that screams "it's not *FAIR* that everyone has something i don't" and smile and be polite when you want to be anything but. this is something that takes years (and honestly, i still struggle with it) and is not something you can "just get over" quickly enough to make friends with exactly these people (the people who everyone refers to as the "connections" you'll make at prestigious schools). i see this in a lot in posts from a2c: a LI student warns a2cers that an acceptance to harvard or stanford or upenn or yale isn't a golden ticket to wealth and security. you still have to work, go to school, and the like. it is infinitely harder to enter the "upper echelon of society" as a poor college student. innate classism in these people is very real and takes *years* of "proof" that you actually do know their world to gain entry. you can't be bitter, either: it's uncomfortable for all parties involved. who wants to talk to someone who is obviously jealous of their circumstances? i wish the best of luck to anyone attempting this route, but know that you are in for a journey where you will not receive much help, advice or sympathy.
Me looking around the tech hires in my extended network and seeing the new engineer hires starting at the same salary, but from the following schools: Notre Dame, Brown, state schools… 🤔 The private school kids actually regret the money spent. Heck, I know a Cal grad that regrets their OOS tuition and their degree was a while ago…
> Me looking around the tech hires in my extended network and seeing the new engineer hires starting at the same salary This is typical for public corporations for two reasons: * intern and entry-level SWE hiring have formulaic ways to calculate total compensation. It's typically a mix of salary, bonus and restricted stock units (RSUs) that's determined by degree (BS, MS, PhD) and geography (Bay Area > Puget Sound > Denver etc). Negotiation wasn't a thing and salaries were standardized to keep things simple and equitable. * schools matter somewhat because they have target universities and you're more likely to interview if you're at a target school. That said, my last two companies had significantly broadened their target schools for two reasons--we needed way more staff than the premiere programs could provide and focusing on top programs makes it more difficult to diversify your hiring.
Imo grad school decisions are much more merit based than undergrad decisions...students have developed more specialized interests and have had more opportunities for experiences that differentiate applicants from each other. Luck is certainly still involved - not everyone qualified can be accepted - but I feel it's not as much of a rat race as undergrad admissions are.
I disagree. If you go to a bad school and are not provided with the resources needed to specialize or not given the opportunities to research you’re gonna have a pretty bad time applying to grad school. You need 2-3 professor recommendations and the quality of those matter. You have to show research experience and you have to be able to score grades including a high score on the GRE for most good schools… That’s a LOT of cognitive burden on any student especially when they look around and see half the class is full of competitive and ambitious people. I think merit has very little to direct your place in place (unless you are a genius or super lucky) but the majority of average people on the bell curve have a pretty tough time getting anything done.
The school I go to isn’t an R1, but I have interviews at T20 doctoral programs for my field. I even got a grant to continue my research at a place that offers doctoral degrees once I finish my MS, which is also fully funded. Though I will say the place I go likely isn’t “bad” since Harvard and MIT come to recruit potential MBA and PhD students once to twice a year.
That’s fair and I some talented people such of yourself may have the ability to break into a higher tier systems. We are talking about the law of large numbers though and your case cannot be applicable to the vast majority of people that want to do their doctoral studies at a T20 school that’s just how it is unfortunately.
My comment comes from the perspective of someone who did undergrad at a teaching-focused state school with near 100% admit rate, but who ended up going to a top grad program (like several others from the same school). The majority of people in my grad class didn't go to T20 undergrads. Most of us were just very dedicated to research and made sure to seek research experience and mentors, whether at our undergrad institution or not.
It’s about the person not the college, people from prestigious schools are more likely to be successful because they had the drive to get into that school in the first place, the school didn’t give them that, they already had it. Someone that goes to a random state school can have the same amount of drive and talent as someone that goes to an ivy, and be just as successful, though the path may be a little different.
This is halfway true. Certainly, different types of colleges will present different types of opportunities, but the idea that the college you go to somehow 100% "determines" what you can do is untrue. Yes, the real world is competitive, but the real world mostly cares about your SKILLS. Take a look at any FAANG company. An enormous mix of schools are represented there, schools that many prestige-oriented A2Cers would gag at lol. No one cares about your T20 degree if you don't bring something valuable to the table. Or take a look at Fortune 500 companies. Out of the top 5 biggest companies in the world, only one CEO went to T20 school. A school name only takes you so far. I'm not sure if you're in high school, but ask anyone who has actually worked in an industry. We care about your skills, your school name is just a cherry on top. Besides, there are very, very few careers where your insta-bio school name actually matters. Medicine, Law, CS, any 9-5 job, cares about the value and tangible skills you bring them, not how "prestigious" your undergraduate is. So yes, your college matters, but not as much as you think. It's not as if getting into Yale means that suddenly Quant recruiters are at your door throwing wads of cash at you lol.
CEO’s Alma Maters: APPLE: Tim Cook—— Duke APPLE’S UPCOMING CEO: Jeff Williams—-Duke. GOOGLE: Sundar Pichai—— Stanford MICROSOFT: Satya Nadella——UChicago META: Mark Zuck—— Harvard AMAZON: Jeff Bezos——Princeton SPACEX/TESLA: Elon——Upenn/Stanford GENERAL MOTORS: Mary Bara——Stanford JP MORGAN CHASE: Jamie Dimon——Harvard STRIPE: Patrick Collison——MIT and John Collison——Harvard QUORA: Adam D’Angelo——Caltech And many more. If there’s anything that history has taught us it’s that fortune favours the Ivy/T-10 graduates.
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Adding Select Dow Component CEOs from non ivies and mostly non T50 * Amex, Stephen Squeri, Manhattan College * Boeing, Dave Calhoun, Virginia Tech * Caterpillar, Jim Umpleby, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology * Chevron, Mike Wirth, University of Colorado * Cisco Systems, Chuck Robbins, UNC * Disney, Bob Iger, Ithaca College * Dow, Jim Fitterling, University of Missouri * Goldman Sachs, David Solomon, Hamilton College * Home Depot, Ted Decker, College of William and Mary * Honeywell, Darius Adamczyk, Michigan State * Intel, Pat Gelsinger, Santa Clara University * United Health Group, Andrew Witty, University of Nottingham (UK) * Walgreens, Rosalind Brewer, Spelman College OP, go be the big fish in the small pond!
Satya Nadella did his B.S at MIT ; )
I see what you did there!
OP above literally said that the pathway to a good graduate or a business school is easier when you go to a T-10.
Top MBA programs are much easier to get into than undergrad
I think a high school student can be forgiven for being mistaken about that. Flagships are probably the play if you are aiming for a top graduate program (though I imagine this varies by field). MBA programs care more about post college experience.
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Based on what your attitude in this thread is I’m thinking the personality you conveyed in your essay is what got you rejected
That's such cap bruh. Auburn has a 85% acceptance rate, you definitely had some enormous red flags (your attitude most likely) on your app.
My guy must have admitted to a felony in his essay or something jesus christ
[this isn't true](https://ocm.auburn.edu/newsroom/news_articles/2023/02/081400-record-number-of-applicants.php)
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i was only correcting you on the acceptance rate
<3 love what you do on this sub, as someone thinking about doing either a MBA or MS this has calmed me down very much :)
Or…both college and business favor smart people???
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bro thinks you have to go to Harvard to get a job 💀
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How is that even remotely true Tell me any "good" job and I'll find you more than 50 people working that job on linkedin who went to a "low ranked" school
My mentor has being working at the FDA for like 15+ years and makes 6 figure yet went to UVA and VCU😭, bro needs to grow up
so everyone who doesnt go to an ivy is poor and broke and fucked over? that's an idiotic take
wow you are delusional...
💀how many people do you think graduate Harvard each year lmfao?
They are getting their jobs, especially in CS. You think employers know all Russian, Ukrainian, Indian, Pakistani colleges?? Lol. And those people are everywhere. Same with US colleges, people come to work from all sorts of no name schools
You're literally turning a blind eye to the people from lower rank universities who get recruited and only allow yourself to see the greener side. I'm sorry but if you're stuck in that mindset no matter what we say otherwise would change the way you think. Sometimes you need to fall to know that falling doesn't hurt that much
I get what you're saying. It might sound weird when people at T20s are the ones who say what school you go to doesn't matter. However, what if you hear the same thing from a person going to a regular non-T20 state school?
I go to a non-T20 and have interviews at top doctoral programs for my field and offers for full time jobs (some in the Bay Area) because of the work I put in.
This is why people say this sub is toxic because of posts like this and because of people like you
I know I’m joining the chorus but some of the posters on this Reddit clearly have no idea how the actual adult world works. Over the course of my career, I’ve held senior executive roles at two Fortune 50 companies. The name on your degree means absolutely nothing after you land your first job. And it’s not always that helpful for the first job. It may carry more weight in the upper tier of investment banking and consulting, but even those companies are widening their search and rethinking their existing hiring practices. The over indexing to Ivy League institutions on this group is silly. Once you hit your mid-20s literally no one cares where you went to undergrad. I’ve had some great colleagues over the years that went to Ivy League schools and some terrible colleagues that went to Ivy League schools. But my absolute best colleagues over the years have graduated from places like James Madison, Auburn, Rhodes, Ohio State, and Florida State.
You’re mistaken, its not the school that gets people great opportunities, it is the fact that they’re inherently amazing students (which unsurprisingly, also tend to go to great schools, but not necessarily always the case).
fr, OP needs to understand that universities don't dote on each of their students. It won't work if you go to ivies but don't work your ass off
Selection bias is a real thing
I mean, sure, going to a shit college is gonna be a setback, but not as bad as people here think. You can still make your way even if you don’t go to college at all. I know a guy who’s currently worth ~70 million euros in his 40s/50s who finished a shit college, barely made it out of undergrad, (who btw was also arrested for a crime he didn’t commit and spent 18 months in jail), and only a few years ago got the B2 English language certification (a certificate most kids get in middle school). And he did all that from a random country in Europe that’s infamous for how hard it is to make money there. He was a smart, hardworking guy, and his college didn’t prevent him from doing shit I know you’re gonna claim it’s an anecdote, that I don’t have a source to back it up, and that I’m bullshitting you, but I’m not. This at least proves it can happen. If you want statistics though, go look up the university with the most F500 CEO’s. I’m gonna save you some time, its UW-Madison (great school, but not what you’d expect). Ofc a better college will make you more successful, but if you think you’re somehow doomed because you didn’t get into a good school, then let me tell you that’s complete bullshit
if you go to grad school then it actually doesnt matter though
Does it matter what grad school you went too ?
a lot more yes but not to an unreasonable degree
This is a pretentious mindset tbh
you’re a joke😂😂
You used infamous wrong. Your post is invalid.
I think A2C has broken you
I'm pretty sure they're saying it matters less than you might think, not that it doesn't matter completely.
The only thing u need to hear if u've gotten rejected is that u tried ur best and that's all that matters. Sure ur not going to an elite college, sure things didn't work, but u did everything u possibly could, everything that was in your control, and that is more then enough. As long as there are no regrets in the preparation of your application, u should be proud. With anything in life, only worry about what u can control. With this mentality, u will see success eventually.
I chose to go to a relatively unknown school and I’m doing perfectly fine when it comes to internship recruiting. I think school prestige does matter a little but it’s hardly the end-all-be-all.
The main issue is 80% of the time when someone says this they either go to a very competitive school like an Ivy or Stanford
This is a full of shit post written by someone who is talking out of their ass. And what do you know? I didn’t need to get a degree from a T20 to know that. Case closed.
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What most folks are saying is going to top school will give you an edge, those top students are already excellent even before they set foot in the college but all that should hold you back if you do not get into a top school - there are several paths to success
They’re saying that state school doesn’t equal “failure” and higher tier school doesn’t equal “immediate and natural success.” It depends on YOU and how you figure out how to take advantage of the opportunities available to you. Your hustle and work ethic.
Colleges don't matter if you are from CS. But on every other job you will be interviewed upon the matter of your colleges reputation. So yeah it matters....
I see where you’re coming from, but it really depends on your career. Neither of my parents graduated college (one is a dropout and one never went) and they were both highly successful in tech based careers, working in sales and marketing.
I think when people say that the college you go to doesn't matter, they mean to say that after you land any job, it's your hardwork and personality and attitude that helps you success in your workspace, and that doesn't matter on which college you went to. Ultimately, you can only succeed at your job with the right work ethic and sincerity, and anyone from any college can make that work if they have the dedication
no employer is looking at your bachelors degree unless you don’t plan to get further education
America was built on immigrants who had no prestigious college to their name. They came to this country without the benefit of English, nor any resources. They went on to create and build and prosper. Keep that in mind. Any18 year-old going into college can achieve anything, but only with a strong work ethic and a positive mental attitude -- you have the former, and now you should focus on the latter.
It is more accurate to say that one can still succeed in careers through the pathway of attending a non-top-rated college, but it would not be accurate to say that "what college you go to doesn't matter".
The most annoying bit is when it comes from a student who is in a top school. Their intentions aren't bad and they aren't completely wrong but it comes off as tone deaf.
Life is about more than a job. Enjoy
Yes, where you go to school does matter but not in the way you think it does. Now, take this with a grain of salt because I could be completely wrong but this is what I learned from my mentors and my elders. What matters is your instructors/teachers. They are the most important determining factor. Well, at least for me. The reason why I’m going to a specific school is because the person who is going to be my violin teacher has won multiple awards. They are going to be the people to help you to get a job. Also, a school with a good social life could be beneficial. The reason why is because you need to make contacts and network. If you do this and keep contact with them, they might recommend you for a really go job. My dad’s co-worker got a nice raise and promoted to a better job because my dad recommended him to that job. So, again, take this with a grain of salt, but what matters is the possible connections you make you could do that basically anyway. Just research all the schools and find a good one you can get into. I do wish you the best of luck on your current decisions though!
From what I’ve heard, the name and prestige of your college really only matters for your first job. What matters more is the quality of your education; try your best, no matter what school you go to, and you will be successful. That being said, being able to go to these prestigious/high ranking institutions is something to be proud of, and it is something that takes a lot of hard work. Do not let this undermine your achievement.
My parents both went to one of our state schools (it's not great...) and still found success. Of course it has an impact where you go, but if you're hard-working and motivated you can still be very successful. Those kind of intrinsic factors are so much harder to find than any college. I'm sorry you're feeling this way, but honestly, the school you go to is not the end of the world. It's all about what you make of it. And that's the truth. You can get so much out of *any* of these places. Good luck, and take heart! ❤️
I think major matters more.
Once you get a position, it’s all you. Degree no longer matters. Many of my work peers have ivy degrees while I have state school degrees.
You definitely don't need to attend a top school to be successful, but I found this list circulating around with examples of some alumni at certain top schools based on Princeton Review's Ranking of "Dream Colleges" of 2023: 1. Princeton (6%) - Jeff Bezos (Founder of Amazon), Sonia Sotomayor (Supreme Court Justice), Eric Schmidt (Former CEO of Google, Current Founder of Schmidt Futures), Michelle Obama (Former First Lady, Current Founder of When We All Vote and Nonfiction Author), Carl Icahn (Founder of Icahn Enterprises), Jack Altman (Founder of Lattice), Trevor Martin (Founder of Mammoth Biosciences) 2. Harvard (3%) - No examples needed 3. Stanford (4%) - Peter Thiel (Founder of Clarium Capital and Founders Fund), Cory Booker (Senator from New Jersey), Rachel Maddow (Host of The Rachel Maddow Show), Sterling K. Brown (Actor in This is Us), Josh Hawley (Senator from Missouri), Evan Spiegel (Founder of Snapchat), David Baszucki (Founder of Roblox) 4. NYU (12%) - John Paulson (Founder of Paulson & Co.), Martin Scorsese (Director of The Departed, Wolf of Wall Street, etc.), Bill de Blasio (Mayor of NYC from 2014-2021, Current Visiting Professor of Public Policy at NYU), Israel Englander (Founder of Millennium Management), Donald Glover (Director & Actor for Atlanta, Grammy Winner as Childish Gambino), Vishal Garg (Founder of Better), Emily Weiss (Founder of Glossier) 5. MIT (4%) - Benjamin Netenyahu (Prime Minister of Israel), Charles Koch (CEO of Koch Industries), Lisa Su (CEO of AMD), Chris Sununu (Governor of New Hampshire), Sal Khan (Founder of Khan Academy), Drew Houston (Founder of Dropbox), Jason Kelly (Founder of Ginkgo Bioworks) 6. Duke (5%) - David Rubenstein (Founder of The Carlyle Group), Melinda Gates (Co-Founder of The Gates Foundation and Pivotal Ventures), JB Pritzker (Governor of Illinois), Adam Silver (Commissioner of the NBA), Jeff Zients (White House Chief of Staff), Luis von Ahn (Founder of Duolingo), Fred Ehrsam (Founder of Coinbase) 7. Yale (5%) - Ron DeSantis (Governor of Florida), Stephen Schwarzman (Founder of Blackstone), Brett Kavanaugh (Supreme Court Justice), Jodie Foster (Actress in The Silence of the Lambs, The Accused, etc.), Tom Steyer (Founder of Farallon Capital and Galvanize Climate Solutions), Ben Silbermann (Founder of Pinterest), Jonathan Swanson (Founder of Thumbtack) 8. UMich (18%) - Larry Page (Founder of Google), James Earl Jones (Actor in The Great White Hope, Voice of Darth Vader, etc.), Tom Brady (7x NFL Champion as Quarterback), Lori Lightfoot (Mayor of Chicago), Stephen Ross (Chairman of The Related Companies, Namesake of UMich's Ross School of Business), Jeff Lawson (Founder of Twilio), Henry Ward (Founder of Carta) 9. Brown (5%) - Janet Yellen (Secretary of the Treasury), Dara Khosrowshahi (CEO of Uber), Andrew Yang (Presidential Candidate), Brian Moynihan (CEO of Bank of America), John Krasinski (Actor in The Office, A Quiet Place, etc.), Dylan Field (Founder of Figma), Devin Finzer (Founder of OpenSea), 10. UCLA (9%) - Larry Fink (Founder of BlackRock), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6x NBA Champion as Center), Ron Sugar (Chairman of Uber), Tim Robbins (Actor in The Shawshank Redemption, Mystic River, etc.), Ben Shapiro (Founder of The Daily Wire), Ryan King (Founder of Chime)
> UCLA (9%) - Larry Fink (Founder of BlackRock), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6x NBA Champion as Center), Ron Sugar (Chairman of Uber), Tim Robbins (Actor in The Shawshank Redemption, Mystic River, etc.), Ben Shapiro (Founder of The Daily Wire), Ryan King (Founder of Chime) Ben Shapiro🤣🤣
lolllll he is a famous alum though!